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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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Rodfavela

VX One hits 24 knots at Macintosh Cup this past weekend!!

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Just correcting you here - I know you are seldom wrong............................ahem........................but the vid starts out with kite run for the first 2/3, a broach, douse, and then ends with a 2 sail reach/run

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The first part is spinnaker till the broach,then main and jib as the river turns 90 degrees, wind 20-25 knots with gusts to 30kts.

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Love it. Would love to have seen some from a head cam as well, looks like plenty of water about and waves. Too bad the chase boat didnt have a camera as well. Good recovery from the broach. I like it all.

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I asked about this once before, but i'm not sure I ever got a good answer...

 

what are the main advantages of sheeting from the boom?

 

last time i asked, i was told it was really common in skiffs, but that doesn't really answer my question.

 

why would you prefer it over sheeting from a block on the cockpit floor?

 

In this video, it looks really awkward, and the few times i have done it, i didn't like it.

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I've wondered the same thing about sheeting from the boom. Without really knowing, the only thing I can think of is that it helps clear the cockpit for heavy air gybes. The crew doesn't need to worry about crossing infront of or behind of the mainsheet while trimming the spin. I agree that it would be a more natural motion to have a block on the deck floor.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts?

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I've wondered the same thing about sheeting from the boom. Without really knowing, the only thing I can think of is that it helps clear the cockpit for heavy air gybes. The crew doesn't need to worry about crossing infront of or behind of the mainsheet while trimming the spin. I agree that it would be a more natural motion to have a block on the deck floor.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts?

 

 

I asked about this once before, but i'm not sure I ever got a good answer...

 

what are the main advantages of sheeting from the boom?

 

last time i asked, i was told it was really common in skiffs, but that doesn't really answer my question.

 

why would you prefer it over sheeting from a block on the cockpit floor?

 

In this video, it looks really awkward, and the few times i have done it, i didn't like it.

 

Sheeting from the boom basically gives you two advantages: absolute clearance for crossing allowing for better tacks and gybes; also trimming from the boom gives you a lot more feel due to the less travel of the mainsheet and the leech tension is achieved by the vang, so it is vang sheeting all the time. This set up helps you to properly trim at all times doing small changes that are hard to achieve when you have a cam cleat.. You just need to get use to it and make keep it with you at all time, no different than any dinghy. It is not hard work at all because the vang carries the load.

 

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Just correcting you here - I know you are seldom wrong............................ahem........................but the vid starts out with kite run for the first 2/3, a broach, douse, and then ends with a 2 sail reach/run

Right on Christian. They start with the spinnaker up, broach, doused it and then kept going under main and jib only.

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When sheeting the main down to a deck cam; the sheet stays loaded making it hard to play. The G-nav bang is very powerful and takes all the leech loads. Sheeting off the boom is easy with this setup because the sheet only controls the in-out position of the boom. Once you get used to it; you'll never go back.

VX One 131 Budgie Smuggler

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well, i vang sheet all the time with my "normal" mainsheet setup.

 

i guess i can see that when you trim the main from the boom,you pull the boom more to weather, rather than down, even when the boom is close to the centerline.

 

in a normal setup, when the vang is on hard, and the boom is out to leeward, the sheet pulls the boom to weather too, but as the boom gets close to the centerline, the sheet starts pulling the boom down, affecting the leech tension as well as the boom position.

 

so, i agree that there might be more independent control of leech tension and sheeting angle with the boom sheeting arrangement.

 

nevertheless, the guy in the video doesn't look completely comfortable with it - he is fiddling around a bit as he transfers the sheet through his tiller hand in a way that wouldn't happen in a normal setup.

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Started sheeting from the boom a few years back and haven't looked back.

Clears up the cockpit.

Keeps your hands up by your face when hand over handing with the tiller in your hand. This also makes it easier to free a hand if your are steering.

Less sheet load; direction of pull is more natural for loading your lats; less fatigue.

When hiking out, sheet load takes some of your weight which makes hiking easier and if you need to scramble back in the boat in a big lull you can pull yourself back in by the sheet.

The only drawback is you can't quickly close up the leech if you are trying to pinch somebody off.

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One other point has not been mentioned about the off the boom sheeting. it allows you to carry a longer tiller extension and still clear it through tacks. I have never sailed any other boat with off the boom sheeting and have not had any problem with it.

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Not to derail the topic, but how would a VX do in light air on flat water compared to a Viper or a Melges 24?

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When I took delivery of my VX i had Vela send me the hardware so that i could sheet of the cockpit floor. I never put it in. It was a little strange at first but now i love it.

 

The VX rig is designed so that don't need to tug on the mainsheet like you do on other non-backstay sportboats. The mast has checks that attach at the GNAV point... with the GNAV on hard those engage forestay tension. you can ease main a bit and drive down into the jib with out the forestay sagging. Makes it really easy to sail in a breeze.

 

Also agree on the feel and open cockpit points.

 

 

 

I've wondered the same thing about sheeting from the boom. Without really knowing, the only thing I can think of is that it helps clear the cockpit for heavy air gybes. The crew doesn't need to worry about crossing infront of or behind of the mainsheet while trimming the spin. I agree that it would be a more natural motion to have a block on the deck floor.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts?

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Not to derail the topic, but how would a VX do in light air on flat water compared to a Viper or a Melges 24?

I haven't sailed on the same circle with Melges 24s yet, but having started behind the Vipers twice this year in very light conditions (both at Mardi Gras Race Week and at Fort Worth Boat Club Audi Annual Regatta Leukemia Cup -- or whatever they're calling it nowadays), I can confidently say the VX is a better light air boat (at least sailing 2-up). We were routinely finishing intermixed with the back 1/3rd of the Viper fleet even though we were starting 10 minutes and 5 minutes behind them (respectively).

 

So while the Vipers have the better upwind speed potential (and thus perhaps the reason for the lower rating -- at least here locally), in most conditions a VX will pass them pretty easily. In light air the VX is faster all-around. And I think the XV is probably faster in 10+ as well since it planes much earlier, easier and faster. The Viper may be a half a tick quicker upwind in med to heavy breeze, but as soon as the windward mark is rounded, game over. My 2 cents anyways.

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Not to derail the topic, but how would a VX do in light air on flat water compared to a Viper or a Melges 24?

A well sailed VX will not be close to a well sailed Melges. That doesn't mean they wouldn't pass a back of the pack boat.

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Oh I don't know about that glaze. A lot would depend on the conditions an how you define "close".

 

5 foot of waterline and 5k in additional sail cloth can't hurt though ;-)

 

I also don't think that has really been tested yet.

 

But... Who really cares. I raced my Vx two weekends ago in almost 20 with my kid an we finished in the top half. I have two great buddies and when we want to sail together it's the viper. There is another wild man who wants to be part of the monkey-pack so word is we-be adding a m24 to the arsenal for that purpose.

 

Damn, maybe a flying tiger is in the cards..

 

My point is... Uh, I forgot

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to derail the topic, but how would a VX do in light air on flat water compared to a Viper or a Melges 24?

A well sailed VX will not be close to a well sailed Melges. That doesn't mean they wouldn't pass a back of the pack boat.

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How do the takedown patches look on the kite now...

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boom sheeting also reduces boom bend. with the stern bridle, your sheeting vertical loads go straight into the leech. You can choose to vang sheet or you can have a "2 speed" mode where the vang is set looser so the leech opens up when you ease in the puffs, but then closes for point when you really sheet on. Unlike a cockpit floor or traveller ratchet only about 1/2 your sheeting load is vertical on the boom. the other half is lateral. so for a given sheet tension, (think catenary tension of say power lines) you will get more movement of the boom to weather from boom sheeting than cockpit floor sheeting so not only do the bending loads on your boom reduce but your total sheet loads come down somewhat as well

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VX should crush M24 downwind in the crossover range.

From what I've seen of the VX, It seems they don't make great VMG downwind. They do go really fast, but not down the course. Now that could be sailing style by the skipper, but I think most would agree that Rod (Vela Sailing) is an accomplished skipper. When we race against them in the crossover conditions (Melges in Disp., VX planing) I always freak out watching them haul the mail. But they always seem to have to jibe a lot more and never quite make up all the distance. Now in a straight line, the melges wouldnt stand a chance in the crossover. Here are results from a PHRF regatta with 2 melges and 2 VX's, J29 and Olson 29. The conditions were light to crossover.

 

http://www.dcyc.org/Resources/Documents/LC12_PHRF2.pdf

 

scroll down to see elapsed and corrected times

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Back when lake Travis had water we had a mixed fleet of vipers, j29's and j80's. In the early days we had trouble figuring out how to pace with the soak and poke heavies - not so after a few years of learning where the vipers sweet spot is. Reckon you'll see the same evolution with the Vx. (You've seen rods shirts right - evolution) ;-)

 

Consider the Vx is pretty new. That was probably rods second or third regatta on the boat (ever?) And the melges is about as optimized as a od boat can be. You guy have been sailing them almost very weekend for how many years?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

VX should crush M24 downwind in the crossover range.

From what I've seen of the VX, It seems they don't make great VMG downwind. They do go really fast, but not down the course. Now that could be sailing style by the skipper, but I think most would agree that Rod (Vela Sailing) is an accomplished skipper. When we race against them in the crossover conditions (Melges in Disp., VX planing) I always freak out watching them haul the mail. But they always seem to have to jibe a lot more and never quite make up all the distance. Now in a straight line, the melges wouldnt stand a chance in the crossover. Here are results from a PHRF regatta with 2 melges and 2 VX's, J29 and Olson 29. The conditions were light to crossover.

 

http://www.dcyc.org/Resources/Documents/LC12_PHRF2.pdf

 

scroll down to see elapsed and corrected times

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Not to derail the topic, but how would a VX do in light air on flat water compared to a Viper or a Melges 24?

I haven't sailed on the same circle with Melges 24s yet, but having started behind the Vipers twice this year in very light conditions (both at Mardi Gras Race Week and at Fort Worth Boat Club Audi Annual Regatta Leukemia Cup -- or whatever they're calling it nowadays), I can confidently say the VX is a better light air boat (at least sailing 2-up). We were routinely finishing intermixed with the back 1/3rd of the Viper fleet even though we were starting 10 minutes and 5 minutes behind them (respectively).

 

So while the Vipers have the better upwind speed potential (and thus perhaps the reason for the lower rating -- at least here locally), in most conditions a VX will pass them pretty easily. In light air the VX is faster all-around. And I think the XV is probably faster in 10+ as well since it planes much earlier, easier and faster. The Viper may be a half a tick quicker upwind in med to heavy breeze, but as soon as the windward mark is rounded, game over. My 2 cents anyways.

I still think that all 3 boat are pretty cool boats and each owner have a reason to go with one over the other. JD is right that the VX started 5 minutes behind the Vipers (at least the one that I was racing on) but the top Vipers were finishing 8 to 10 minutes ahead of the first VX even though they finished in front of the last couple of Vipers. For what I have seen I think it is not what boat is a 0.1th of a knot faster but is going to come down to (without taking into consideration fleet size): If you want to sail with just one of your buddies, go with the VX, if you want to sail with two of your friends, go with the Viper , and if you like to sail with 3 other guys then go with the Melges 24 (or J70 if you are looking for even larger fleets). Bottom line all 3 boats are great boats and will provide with the enjoyment you are looking for. Either way do not stay on land, Go Sailing!

 

Juan Mauri

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I'm sold...just have to sell my J22 first. THese can be sailed with the board un-pinned though right ? Varying depth is the new black I'm afraid.

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I'm looking forward to seeing (and sailing) a VX in person at our club this summer. I ended up picking up a used Viper, but the VX is sweet too. I'm jealous of Jeff, with one of each! Our fleet will be 2 x Viper 640, 1 x VX One, 1 x Melges 20, 2 x J/70, and 1 x Open 5.00. This is going to be a fun summer!

 

Whatever boat you get, put a GoPro on it! :)

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There are a few in Newport, and soon the one in Vermont, but I think that's it.

Is a "few" one (i.e. Jim Myers's dealer boat), or do we actually know of others? I haven't seen or heard of any others in LIS, RI, or Massachusetts.

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There are a few in Newport, and soon the one in Vermont, but I think that's it.

Is a "few" one (i.e. Jim Myers's dealer boat), or do we actually know of others? I haven't seen or heard of any others in LIS, RI, or Massachusetts.

Chuck Brown and Phip Hallowell have one too.

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There are a few in Newport, and soon the one in Vermont, but I think that's it.

Is a "few" one (i.e. Jim Myers's dealer boat), or do we actually know of others? I haven't seen or heard of any others in LIS, RI, or Massachusetts.

 

AFAIK, its two.

 

I was told "a few" by the builder. I was interested so I asked for names. I was given three names of Newport owners. It turns out I knew one of them, so called him. He didnt own a VX and had no intention of buying a VX but he had been out on a demo ride. I guess that counts for "one". I assume the other two are real. One was Jim.

 

Maybe Jim has sold another one or two. He is a really good person and goes above and beyond to support junior sailing around here so I wish him well.

 

We are in the North East so if I want to race a sport boat one design it doesnt really matter how many people I want to sail with, the choice is J70 or Viper.

I might wish the options included the Ultimate 20, Melges 20, VX, SB20, Open 5.70 , Shaw, etc but realistically they dont. I'm looking at the Cedar Point One Design entry registrations and it tells the story.

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Yeah, I really admire the VX One and seriously considered one after I sold my half share of my previous Viper. I do love sailing two-up, and I hope the VX dominates that segment. However, the Viper is so strong in the northeast that I couldn't resist coming back, and so I found a great used Viper in excellent condition and I'm very happy. Hopefully the VX One will find success too.

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There are a few in Newport, and soon the one in Vermont, but I think that's it.

Is a "few" one (i.e. Jim Myers's dealer boat), or do we actually know of others? I haven't seen or heard of any others in LIS, RI, or Massachusetts.

 

AFAIK, its two.

 

I was told "a few" by the builder. I was interested so I asked for names. I was given three names of Newport owners. It turns out I knew one of them, so called him. He didnt own a VX and had no intention of buying a VX but he had been out on a demo ride. I guess that counts for "one". I assume the other two are real. One was Jim.

 

Maybe Jim has sold another one or two. He is a really good person and goes above and beyond to support junior sailing around here so I wish him well.

 

We are in the North East so if I want to race a sport boat one design it doesnt really matter how many people I want to sail with, the choice is J70 or Viper.

I might wish the options included the Ultimate 20, Melges 20, VX, SB20, Open 5.70 , Shaw, etc but realistically they dont. I'm looking at the Cedar Point One Design entry registrations and it tells the story.

Hi I am Tim Pitts the VX -one Fleet Captain in Newport - to set the record correct We now have 7 vx-one's in New England - 6 based at Sail Newport- Since April 13th we have at least 3 boats out every weekend and as many as 5 Ripping around the harbor(I have not seen the boats mentioned above out sailing). This is just the beginning of where the VX is going. in new England We have been invited to sail in the Atlantic Cup on memorial day where current entries stand at 11 boats. In the last 5 weeks 7 more boats been sold and the factory is constantly plugging out boats.. -- This summer we will be sailing a Monday sport boat series and the Friday Alhoa series - an all that local regatta's that will support us (see VX one class web site)

Looking forward to next year we are wrapping up the planning of the inguinal VX -one Gold CUP a series that will consist 5 major regattas 2 in Newport ( 1 being the North Americans) - each event will be promoted to be 20 + boats

The VX class members are committed to growing this great fleet, to support all our regional regattas a 6 boat trailer program is in the works so that our boats can be moved in an inexpensive team manner we will be headed south for the winter - to have more warm weather fun

 

If you have questions or want a test drive email me at fleet5vxone@gmail.com -

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I'm looking forward to seeing (and sailing) a VX in person at our club this summer. I ended up picking up a used Viper, but the VX is sweet too. I'm jealous of Jeff, with one of each! Our fleet will be 2 x Viper 640, 1 x VX One, 1 x Melges 20, 2 x J/70, and 1 x Open 5.00. This is going to be a fun summer!

 

Whatever boat you get, put a GoPro on it! :)

Hey I will drive another VX up to Vermont and join you guys for a weekend so 2 boats can be out there

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Right on! I think I need to schedule a multi-race WL sportboat race day, since most of our weekend races are around islands and government marks. Actually, those can be quite nice for some long blasting reaches and runs under spinnaker.

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Newport fleet at this moment is as follows;

 

Chuck Brown/Phip Hallowell

Tom Chiginski/Michael Brown

Michael, Christine & Anthony Norris

Tim Pitts Using 101

Bill Shaw/Sam Sylvester Using 111 (Also used for demos)

Jim Myers 007

 

6 boats right now.

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Incoming Vermont VX owner here... and apparently also VX #7 in New England. Really looking forward to racing in both the upcoming Atlantic Cup in Newport and then the mixed sportboat fleet on Lake Champlain.

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Hey Oliver!

 

We are looking forward to having you at LCYC and in the sportboat fleet this summer! I can't wait to see your VX parked next to our Vipers and J/70s, and more importantly, on the water!

 

Cheers,

 

jason

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Not to derail the topic, but how would a VX do in light air on flat water compared to a Viper or a Melges 24?

I haven't sailed on the same circle with Melges 24s yet, but having started behind the Vipers twice this year in very light conditions (both at Mardi Gras Race Week and at Fort Worth Boat Club Audi Annual Regatta Leukemia Cup -- or whatever they're calling it nowadays), I can confidently say the VX is a better light air boat (at least sailing 2-up). We were routinely finishing intermixed with the back 1/3rd of the Viper fleet even though we were starting 10 minutes and 5 minutes behind them (respectively).

 

So while the Vipers have the better upwind speed potential (and thus perhaps the reason for the lower rating -- at least here locally), in most conditions a VX will pass them pretty easily. In light air the VX is faster all-around. And I think the XV is probably faster in 10+ as well since it planes much earlier, easier and faster. The Viper may be a half a tick quicker upwind in med to heavy breeze, but as soon as the windward mark is rounded, game over. My 2 cents anyways.

Gonna have to call bullshit on this. I too sailed in Mardi Gras and FT Worth Boat Club Audi thing and there was not a VX anywhere close to us when we finished. You might have got close to the Viper in the back of the pack sailing 4 up his first time on the boat in those lighter conditions but I wouldn't call that a very good bases for comparison. Not trying to get into a pissing match Viper vs. VX thing here, I think the VX is a very cool boat. I think in any breeze the Viper is faster than the VX upwind, light air downwind close (W/L course) Viper will make better VMG to the mark, Moderate breeze VX will get up quicker, Heavy air I think the VX will go faster. Just my .02 cents.

 

Just saw Juan's response which is spot on.

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First of all, great video! I especially like the skill of the trimmer catching the beers rifled at him by the chase boat at the end of the vid.

 

Back to the sheeting off the boom question.... If you have a standard deck cleat setup, I assume you can still sheet off the boom by grabbing the mainsheet above the block. I've seen videos where some guys do this on sportboats to pump the main for surfing/planning. Is this a good technique for DW Aso sailing? Or just for when you're pumping the main to get on a wave? And if I understood it correctly, the key is to have the vang on hard to control the leech tension and then you're just pulling the boom in and out from the mainsheet line above the deck cleat. Is this correct?

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First of all, great video! I especially like the skill of the trimmer catching the beers rifled at him by the chase boat at the end of the vid.

 

Back to the sheeting off the boom question.... If you have a standard deck cleat setup, I assume you can still sheet off the boom by grabbing the mainsheet above the block. I've seen videos where some guys do this on sportboats to pump the main for surfing/planning. Is this a good technique for DW Aso sailing? Or just for when you're pumping the main to get on a wave? And if I understood it correctly, the key is to have the vang on hard to control the leech tension and then you're just pulling the boom in and out from the mainsheet line above the deck cleat. Is this correct?

J,

 

yes, you are right: having the floor mounted swivel base does not prevent you from trimming from the boom as you would do on a Laser or Finn when sailing off the wind and even on some sportboats as you mentioned. At this point you are only "fanning the main" in and out with he same leech tension due to vang set. Most of the VX's do the same but also upwind, vang-sheeting it is, and is not hard at all as the actual tension is held by the vang.

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First of all, great video! I especially like the skill of the trimmer catching the beers rifled at him by the chase boat at the end of the vid.

 

Back to the sheeting off the boom question.... If you have a standard deck cleat setup, I assume you can still sheet off the boom by grabbing the mainsheet above the block. I've seen videos where some guys do this on sportboats to pump the main for surfing/planning. Is this a good technique for DW Aso sailing? Or just for when you're pumping the main to get on a wave? And if I understood it correctly, the key is to have the vang on hard to control the leech tension and then you're just pulling the boom in and out from the mainsheet line above the deck cleat. Is this correct?

J,

 

yes, you are right: having the floor mounted swivel base does not prevent you from trimming from the boom as you would do on a Laser or Finn when sailing off the wind and even on some sportboats as you mentioned. At this point you are only "fanning the main" in and out with he same leech tension due to vang set. Most of the VX's do the same but also upwind, vang-sheeting it is, and is not hard at all as the actual tension is held by the vang.

 

Thanks. I've watched some Laser SB3 training videos (before it became the SB20) and it looks like some of the top boats do it that way.

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