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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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ADCAT

ARTEMIS Capsized!

295 posts in this topic

Near the North channel off TI. Crew recovered but at least one injury.

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Fuck fuck....

 

just watched the live feed. started at the dock w medics pumping away on someone! not good

 

panned to the water and AR 72 turtled. wing snapped.

 

Bad bad bad....

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Doing CPR on one crew member at StFYC right now.

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That's terrible news - come on dude!

 

9096658_448x252.jpg

 

Don't know if this is old stock or not, goes with the update...

920016_646639418695828_239930635_o.jpg

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Tragic but not un expected .

 

One dead other injuries unknown at this time .

 

Fuck

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Stupid, stupid, stupid under designed not near enough development time for SF conditions. Sorry but Larry and Russell's ego's are directly responsible for this accident. It was going to happen it was just when and how bad. They were shook with their own screwup which was bad driving and no the boat. But basically overpowered pitbulls in SF conditions will bite you ass!

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Fuck off, newbie. Have some respect. Wrong time, wrong place :angry:

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^^^ Could be as simple as metal fatigue in just one bolt that snapped and then triggered a cascade of disasters. Could be anything.

 

Let's not get too far carried away with a blame game. Obviously nobody wanted this, it was a devastating accident.

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Tragic , very sad. Obviously a lot of questions still need to be answered. Condolences to Andrew's family and friends. It's a sad day for the sport..

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Very sad day.

 

Do they get mini air tanks? I figured each guy would get one?

Not sure but someone who has been thrown 50 feet into something solid may not be in the condition to use one.

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Sincere condolences to the Simpson family, the Artemis syndicate and all Andrew's mates in UK sailing.

 

This was a terrible way to die and every sailor (and their families) have a lot to think about.

 

Even though it is too late for the Simpsons, hopefully those remaining in the contest will get together and try and design better responses to these situations.

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Firstly, this is horrible news - condolences to family and friends...

 

Very sad day.

 

Do they get mini air tanks? I figured each guy would get one?

Not sure but someone who has been thrown 50 feet into something solid may not be in the condition to use one.

 

Apparently he was trapped under the mess for 10 minutes, from what i've read the tanks don't have this length of capacity. And yeah, his condition post accident may have been a contributing factor.

 

Hopefully lessons are learnt and this never happens again...

RIP

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Stupid, stupid, stupid under designed not near enough development time for SF conditions. Sorry but Larry and Russell's ego's are directly responsible for this accident. It was going to happen it was just when and how bad. They were shook with their own screwup which was bad driving and no the boat. But basically overpowered pitbulls in SF conditions will bite you ass!

Easy there...

Let's recall, they had a two wing option for the ac72s that got voted down by mutual consent for cost considerations - the smaller wing was eliminated by choice by all the teams. And, early on when wussel realized they were in over their heads cost and otherwise, he went back to the teams looking to downsize the boats (or race the cup in the 45s) and there was at least one team who said pound sand (since they already had the designer who wrote the rule on their side and were confident to show up with a gun to the knife fight.)

 

Don't get me wrong - I agree with where you are going, and have thought all along that they should have done this in the 45s, opening up the foils and rigs to development after the first year once they realized what was going to happen with the 72s - but this is a big boys game and the train had left the station.

 

The show will go on - and hopefully, no one else will be lost.

 

Honestly, if they had gone down the extreme monohull road - we might still be in this type of situation. And let's not forget that we lost a Spanish AC sailor during practice a decade or so ago too.

 

Heart breaking all around, and much to be learned.

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Condolences to Simpson's family, teammates and friends. I hope in some way the LVC and AC will remember him.

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^^^ Could be as simple as metal fatigue in just one bolt that snapped and then triggered a cascade of disasters. Could be anything.

 

Let's not get too far carried away with a blame game. Obviously nobody wanted this, it was a devastating accident.

 

Spot on.

Nobody wanted or planned for this. I've always believed the boats were a poor choice, but I honestly never ever thought we would lose someone even after OR's PP.

Unfortunately accidents do happen. They happen in yacht races, car races or just walking across the street.

We just have to hope that this will not be repeated.

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This is a shock. You expect injuries in this sport but not fatalities. My heart and prayers are with the Simpson family.

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^^^ Could be as simple as metal fatigue in just one bolt that snapped and then triggered a cascade of disasters. Could be anything.

Let's not get too far carried away with a blame game. Obviously nobody wanted this, it was a devastating accident.

Spot on.

Nobody wanted or planned for this. I've always believed the boats were a poor choice, but I honestly never ever thought we would lose someone even after OR's PP.

Unfortunately accidents do happen. They happen in yacht races, car races or just walking across the street.

We just have to hope that this will not be repeated.

I don't know. I actually can't see how this cup continues. The boats are amazing, but are just too dangerous. Any PP in an AC72 is incredibly serious and the nature of the competition means we'll see more of them.

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RIP to the dead crew member and my thoughts and prayers to his family.

 

WetHog :ph34r:

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What Went Wrong in the Deadly America’s Cup Crash

 

A quote from Wired ..

 

Preliminary reports indicate Artemis’s boat didn’t capsize because the sailors were pushing too hard or made a mistake, as was the case with Team Oracle. The problem was with the boat itself, either faulty engineering or faulty construction. The boat simply broke apart under sail, folded, then flipped. The Artemis boat has had a history of cracking and problems with the carbon fiber used in the twin “beams” — the two girders that lash the two narrow hulls together. The boat had been in and out of the shed numerous times in an attempt to correct those problems. Today, however, the forward beam — the girder in front of the sail — gave way during a practice run. The two hulls, no longer connected, began sailing in slightly different directions. This caused one hull to snap just forward of the aft beam, and the mast, held up by high-tension rigging connected to the front of the hulls, simply fell over. The boat began to cartwheel, ultimately trapping Simpson underneath and drowning him.

 

You can read the rest here ..

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05/americas-cup-crash/

 

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Terry, thanks for that it explains a lot.

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What Went Wrong in the Deadly America’s Cup Crash

 

A quote from Wired ..

 

Preliminary reports indicate Artemis’s boat didn’t capsize because the sailors were pushing too hard or made a mistake, as was the case with Team Oracle. The problem was with the boat itself, either faulty engineering or faulty construction. The boat simply broke apart under sail, folded, then flipped. The Artemis boat has had a history of cracking and problems with the carbon fiber used in the twin “beams” — the two girders that lash the two narrow hulls together. The boat had been in and out of the shed numerous times in an attempt to correct those problems. Today, however, the forward beam — the girder in front of the sail — gave way during a practice run. The two hulls, no longer connected, began sailing in slightly different directions. This caused one hull to snap just forward of the aft beam, and the mast, held up by high-tension rigging connected to the front of the hulls, simply fell over. The boat began to cartwheel, ultimately trapping Simpson underneath and drowning him.

 

You can read the rest here ..

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05/americas-cup-crash/

Maybe, maybe not.

 

There is a picture over on PD that shows the boat inverted with both hulls intact.

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MM, you do remember this picture of yours ..

 

21569cae91720bbc24ee771e839a6b86_zpsa20b

 

435f5894b1d084f368ed46e63158db49_zps8e18

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What Went Wrong in the Deadly America’s Cup Crash

 

A quote from Wired ..

 

Preliminary reports indicate Artemis’s boat didn’t capsize because the sailors were pushing too hard or made a mistake, as was the case with Team Oracle. The problem was with the boat itself, either faulty engineering or faulty construction. The boat simply broke apart under sail, folded, then flipped. The Artemis boat has had a history of cracking and problems with the carbon fiber used in the twin “beams” — the two girders that lash the two narrow hulls together. The boat had been in and out of the shed numerous times in an attempt to correct those problems. Today, however, the forward beam — the girder in front of the sail — gave way during a practice run. The two hulls, no longer connected, began sailing in slightly different directions. This caused one hull to snap just forward of the aft beam, and the mast, held up by high-tension rigging connected to the front of the hulls, simply fell over. The boat began to cartwheel, ultimately trapping Simpson underneath and drowning him.

 

You can read the rest here ..

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05/americas-cup-crash/

Maybe, maybe not.

 

There is a picture over on PD that shows the boat inverted with both hulls intact.

 

Pretty sure one of the hulls has cracked and bent just forward of the rear beam and then worked itself completely loose shortly after she went over.

There is no way the hull would break that way just sitting upside down in what is relatively calm conditions, the bulk of the damage had to be done during the crash.

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Maybe, maybe not.

 

There is a picture over on PD that shows the boat inverted with both hulls intact.

 

 

PD? Share

http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/showthread.php?3170-Artemis-72-Capsizes-and-Flips-Crew-Hurt&p=30182&viewfull=1#post30182

 

from that picture all I can definitively see is the aft section of the port hull

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There is a picture over on PD that shows the boat inverted with both hulls intact.

 

No there isn't. Look at all the pix.

 

91428318403048851981.jpg

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looks like the rear crew area on 1 hull took a lot of forces and snapped off

 

the wired article says after the main beam broke the 2 hulls sailed appart

 

presumably until 1 hull snapped just forward of the rear beam

 

even a buddy system is weak when both are involved in the accident

 

from pressure drop

 

96911264432511825194.jpg

 

post-23477-0-12310400-1368158790_thumb.jpg

 

Alt_13_13_007682_ArtemisRacing_AC721.jpg

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looks like the rear crew area on 1 hull took a lot of forces and snapped off

 

would have been nasty carbon bits everywhere there

maybe thats how craig got a cut too his neck. scary stuff

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There is a picture over on PD that shows the boat inverted with both hulls intact.

 

No there isn't. Look at all the pix.

 

91428318403048851981.jpg

Look at the top photo in post 28 at PD. There is room for doubt as to when the hull tore free from the stern section. Might have been separated from the beam prior to the capsize, but held in place by netting and rigging until after the boat started working in the waves...

 

http://www.pressure-drop.us/forums/showthread.php?3170-Artemis-72-Capsizes-and-Flips-Crew-Hurt&p=30182&viewfull=1#post30182

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Condolences to the family.

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Very sad news. Condolences to the family.

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This is terrible news to wake up to in Britain. Condolences to Simpson's family and friends. Of his friends, not least Iain Percy who secured a gig for his mate. He must be devastated. Best wishes also to Craig Monk for a full and speedy recovery.

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Anybody catch scot's (or was it alan?) shameless attack on cayard on facebook (now since deleted)? absolutely despicable, an all time low for SA

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Well the original FP story was entitled "flop, then flip", and led by describing the Artemis program as being "already hopeless and now doomed".

 

A bit much!

 

I'm quoting from memory, as this version was pulled after less than 30 minutes being up.

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On the bright side Prime News reports that Craig Monk injury is to the knuckles not the neck.

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Well the original FP story was entitled "flop, then flip", and led by describing the Artemis program as being "already hopeless and now doomed".

 

A bit much!

 

I'm quoting from memory, as this version was pulled after less than 30 minutes being up.

 

Thats how I remembered it as well.

Even if nobody had died, it was still overboard.

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Try as you will but the media will twist the best efforts at keeping the story REAL

 

in an interview you will be asked many questions

 

those answers shall be chopped into what sounds like a statement

 

IF You said it they will use your voice

 

if they say you said something - They failed at getting you to say the words desired

 

I was asked if I knew DC - I said Yes (I do) they make it sound like I said More

 

I did Not - or they would have played it

 

 

FOX-5 NEWS @ 10 Story from tonight ---> Video

 

CBS-7 @ 11 Story will be uploaded to their site tomorrow morning

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Sincere simpathies to Andrew's family, friends and team-mates

 

The Artemis syndicate will also be hurting right now.

 

 

I believe in doing all that is possible to ensure that these guys who are the world's best in their chosen sport are as safe as they can possibly be.

 

I also believe it would not be the right thing to point blame, try to stop or diminish the event, withdraw support, or any other emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

 

A measured investigation and appropriate improvements will come in time.

 

 

The very reason the sport is so attractive to competitors and spectators is that it does push the boundaries of human ability in design, construction and strength and endurance.

 

There is no way to make such an event perfectly "cotton wool" safe, any more than other extreme sports and human endeavours.

 

 

We don't try to stop Space Travel because of some of the tragic incidents, ban Formula 1, or stop climbing Everest, just try to learn and lift the bar higher and smarter.

 

To me it's more of a tragedy to die at the end of a risk averse un-eventful life of cloistered "safety", never venturing to far beyond couch or keyboard, an endless spectator.

 

 

Far rather live a full and exciting life like "Bart", adventurer, competitor, champion, olympic medalist, an endless participator.

 

Gratitude to the Bart's of this world who give us less able mortals endless pleasure by their incredible endeavours.

 

 

Carpe Vita.

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Very sad news. Condolences to his family and friends.

It's all over the morning news here. Iain and Ben must be devastated by the loss of their teammate and friend.

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Tragic.It's hard to take this news when a brilliant talent is taken at the top of his career. Condolences to his family. RIP Andrew.

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Very sad day!

 

While if seems some have already started the finger pointing, today should be about the family members, friends, and team mates that have lost a loved one. My deepest condolences to all.

 

Any news on the conditions of the other injured crew members?

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I will always remember the interview Bart and Ian gave immediately after the 2012 medal race. Bart was so sporting and so dignified under the hardest circumstances, a true sporting gentleman. A great bloke. RIP to Bart and deepest condolences to the family and team.

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This is terrible news to wake up to in Britain. Condolences to Simpson's family and friends. Of his friends, not least Iain Percy who secured a gig for his mate. He must be devastated. Best wishes also to Craig Monk for a full and speedy recovery.

 

Nothing to add, I just agree with what you wrote. A total shock.

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This is terrible news to wake up to in Britain. Condolences to Simpson's family and friends. Of his friends, not least Iain Percy who secured a gig for his mate. He must be devastated. Best wishes also to Craig Monk for a full and speedy recovery.

Nothing to add to this, very upsetting news.

 

What is it with our Olympic sailors? Glyn Charles, Johnny Merricks and now Bart.

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I would imagine the Glyn Charles Pursuit Race tomorrow will be a very sombre affair. A sad day for sailing, a sadder day for his family and friends. RIP

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This is terrible news to wake up to in Britain. Condolences to Simpson's family and friends. Of his friends, not least Iain Percy who secured a gig for his mate. He must be devastated. Best wishes also to Craig Monk for a full and speedy recovery.

Nothing to add to this, very upsetting news.

 

What is it with our Olympic sailors? Glyn Charles, Johnny Merricks and now Bart.

Glyn Charles and Andrew Simpson went to the same school too

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This is terrible news to wake up to in Britain. Condolences to Simpson's family and friends. Of his friends, not least Iain Percy who secured a gig for his mate. He must be devastated. Best wishes also to Craig Monk for a full and speedy recovery.

Agreed. Terrible news.

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What Went Wrong in the Deadly America’s Cup Crash

 

A quote from Wired ..

 

Preliminary reports indicate Artemis’s boat didn’t capsize because the sailors were pushing too hard or made a mistake, as was the case with Team Oracle. The problem was with the boat itself, either faulty engineering or faulty construction. The boat simply broke apart under sail, folded, then flipped. The Artemis boat has had a history of cracking and problems with the carbon fiber used in the twin “beams” — the two girders that lash the two narrow hulls together. The boat had been in and out of the shed numerous times in an attempt to correct those problems. Today, however, the forward beam — the girder in front of the sail — gave way during a practice run. The two hulls, no longer connected, began sailing in slightly different directions. This caused one hull to snap just forward of the aft beam, and the mast, held up by high-tension rigging connected to the front of the hulls, simply fell over. The boat began to cartwheel, ultimately trapping Simpson underneath and drowning him.

 

You can read the rest here ..

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2013/05/americas-cup-crash/

Maybe, maybe not.

 

There is a picture over on PD that shows the boat inverted with both hulls intact.

 

I think you need to look at that again MM before you lead people astray. It might appear to be two hulls when you can only see the sterns, but the side views show the port hull snapped off in front of the rear beam as described in the wired account. That account had to come from someone onboard or closely observing - none of the photos I've seen suggest it is wrong.

Given the boats history it matches as well.

 

Describing this as a capsize is rather missing the point IMO

 

2109615.jpg?type=articleLandscape

 

abc_kgo_capsized_boat_ll_130508_wg.jpg

 

photo_1368144648384-1-0.jpg

afp4.gif Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images/AFP

 

 

artemis-capsize-25.jpg

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They do, and doctors, I believe. Sill a big area underwater for a couple of divers to cover in the short time it takes to drown...

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A tragic loss. Prayers for all of the family and friends affected by this unfortunate tragedy.

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Tragic. Not what I was expecting to hear on the radio this morning. Fair winds and following seas. Hopefully some good lessons can be learned, and hopefully the show goes on as I assume Simpson would have wanted.

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I really feel terrible, for the family and those who knew him best...

 

Sailing can be dangerous, from dinghy sailing to ocean racing there are risks. Heck, there are risks driving to work, playing sports, taking prescription medicine, or a hundred other things we do daily. Things happen even when you don't load up an AC 72 in San Francisco Bay.

 

I hope this doesn't dissuade others from pursuing their passions, and pray for those all associated with this tragic accident.

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Prayers for the family of friends of Andrew "Bart" Simpson. Let us all keep our opinions of the boats to ourselves until we actually have the truth as to what happened.

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2109615.jpg?type=articleLandscape

 

 

that's a nice pic

 

i hope he liked

 

that's how i'll remember him

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My condolences for Andrew's family and friends and my prayers are today for him.

I feel really bad, it makes me sick. Unfortunately I must say that I was not surprised, but now this makes it even worse, not better.

I hate these boats, this cup, the horrible path sailing has taken in last years. The nascar model, the tv show, the crashes making crowds interested, speed just for the sake if itself, all this crap. And even if any of the guys out there earning a living would be the same, fate is so cruel that has taken us an olympic stars' champion, the symbol of the opposite soul of sailing

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Condolences to Bart’s family, friends and team mates.

 

Looks like the front beam snapped causing the leeward hull to shear just in front of the rear beam as the boat flipped sideways over the broken hull. Travelling at high speed, crew no doubt on the windward hull, it would have violently flipped over and been a long fall / catapult. I have snapped front beams and hulls at speed on ‘off the beach’ cats and you end up in the water in spectacular fashion. The size and speed of these monsters would make the event very dramatic. Sadly Bart was lost, thankfully there were not more.

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They do, and doctors, I believe. Sill a big area underwater for a couple of divers to cover in the short time it takes to drown...

 

They have air on them also but he may not have been able to use it.

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They do, and doctors, I believe. Sill a big area underwater for a couple of divers to cover in the short time it takes to drown...

They have air on them also but he may not have been able to use it.

The do have air canisters but at those speeds there is a good chance that if you hit something solid you may not be conscious or otherwise capable of utilizing it. What really concerns me is that it took them ten min to even find him. There are experienced divers suited up and no more that 60 sec away at any time the boats are on the course.

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Where exactly is the spare air? (not that it sounds like it was relevant in this case - but just to keep to the facts)

(huge)

Artemis-Racing-Launch-%C2%A9-Sander-van-

 

8647291656_2fc8976799_b.jpg

 

8654717209_b27c5e7708_b.jpg

Photos - Artemis Racing © Sander van der Borch

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Where exactly is the spare air? (not that it sounds like it was relevant in this case - but just to keep to the facts)

(huge)

Artemis-Racing-Launch-%C2%A9-Sander-van-

 

 

 

 

Photos - Artemis Racing © Sander van der Borch

Sincere condolences to family, friends, teammates. Just an awful, awful thing to have happened.

 

In answer to the question, I think that the circled shows air, though it is only one pony bottle..

post-42312-0-12823900-1368201180_thumb.jpg

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Yes you are right, there is one there.1/13?

Clearly not standard for the whole crew plus technicians/media as we have seen on other teams and as some seem to assume.

Rescue divers are another aspect and have been stated as present - but I missed seeing any as yet. Link anyone?

 

This was yesterday...

BJ2FnXNCMAIyJ1Djpglarge_zps043a79ab.jpeg

 

and the day before..

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Try as you will but the media will twist the best efforts at keeping the story REAL

 

in an interview you will be asked many questions

 

those answers shall be chopped into what sounds like a statement

 

IF You said it they will use your voice

 

if they say you said something - They failed at getting you to say the words desired

 

I was asked if I knew DC - I said Yes (I do) they make it sound like I said More

 

I did Not - or they would have played it

 

 

FOX-5 NEWS @ 10 Story from tonight ---> Video

 

CBS-7 @ 11 Story will be uploaded to their site tomorrow morning

 

 

and a slightly better story from last night http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/New-Americas-Cup-Like-Race-Cars-on-Water-206922421.html

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From that article...

If I ran the Cup, I'd make an announcement tomorrow: Let's ditch the AC72s and go old schoolwe can race comparatively pokey 12-meter monohulls with soft sails, like the Cup used to use. It's not about the boats, it's about the people in them.

All very well, but that's not the America's Cup.

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Try as you will but the media will twist the best efforts at keeping the story REAL

 

in an interview you will be asked many questions

 

those answers shall be chopped into what sounds like a statement

 

IF You said it they will use your voice

 

if they say you said something - They failed at getting you to say the words desired

 

I was asked if I knew DC - I said Yes (I do) they make it sound like I said More

 

I did Not - or they would have played it

 

 

FOX-5 NEWS @ 10 Story from tonight ---> Video

 

CBS-7 @ 11 Story will be uploaded to their site tomorrow morning

 

 

and a slightly better story from last night http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/New-Americas-Cup-Like-Race-Cars-on-Water-206922421.html

Pimped yerself in that one eh?

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Try as you will but the media will twist the best efforts at keeping the story REAL

 

in an interview you will be asked many questions

 

those answers shall be chopped into what sounds like a statement

 

IF You said it they will use your voice

 

if they say you said something - They failed at getting you to say the words desired

 

I was asked if I knew DC - I said Yes (I do) they make it sound like I said More

 

I did Not - or they would have played it

 

 

FOX-5 NEWS @ 10 Story from tonight ---> Video

 

CBS-7 @ 11 Story will be uploaded to their site tomorrow morning

 

 

and a slightly better story from last night http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/New-Americas-Cup-Like-Race-Cars-on-Water-206922421.html

Pimped yerself in that one eh?

 

Both

 

But I did not go to them they contacted me

 

it was from my work to get them to cover DoGZilla and the success of their doing so

 

when given a chance we MUST put our best foot forward and present Sailing in a Positive Light

 

NEWZ Crews by nature are looking for Doom & Gloom / Shock & Ahw

 

Sailing is a NEWS Worthy topic in its own right

 

But it's REALLY Hard to get a knowledgeable Message across

 

when those doing the Editing want something else

 

I Try and I get more chances than many

 

Do You think it's Easy to actually have a Positive Effect on the World of Sailing ??

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Nav, video I received from Cup Info shows a diver coming out of the water just before they start taking the crew off of the boat. Apparently Simpson had already been rushed to shore by the look of the vid.

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Tragic , very sad. Obviously a lot of questions still need to be answered. Condolences to Andrew's family and friends. It's a sad day for the sport..

The creation of the AC 72's was a sad day for this sport.

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So eager to pick over the bones you sad kunts.

 

None of you are worth spit compared to Gentleman Bart.

 

Now piss off and dash back to your underachieving lives, you aren't worth anything in this debate. Your opinion, is like your soul........ worthless!!!

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Tragic , very sad. Obviously a lot of questions still need to be answered. Condolences to Andrew's family and friends. It's a sad day for the sport..

The creation of the AC 72's was a sad day for this sport.
Your birth was a sad day for humanity.

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This looks like a live feed of the upcoming presser at Pier 27. Belive it starts at 1100.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/BAY-Training-Canceled-Artemis-Team-Mourns-After-Death-of-Olympic-Sailor-206916441.html

 

 

Now running. Iain Murray clearly choked up giving his initial statement.

 

They are not committing to anything, pending the investigation/review.

 

A few good questions, and some silly ones, like "are you contemplating reducing the number of bear-away maneuvers for the AC races?"

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Nav, video I received from Cup Info shows a diver coming out of the water just before they start taking the crew off of the boat. Apparently Simpson had already been rushed to shore by the look of the vid.

 

Is that something they have put up or linked to on their site, or a secret?

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Nav, video I received from Cup Info shows a diver coming out of the water just before they start taking the crew off of the boat. Apparently Simpson had already been rushed to shore by the look of the vid.

 

Is that something they have put up or linked to on their site, or a secret?

 

Try here, lots of video and other link (have all been already posted here, presumably): http://www.cupinfo.com/

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It sounds as if the rescue divers had trouble locating Andrew.

 

If this is the case I wonder if the crew can wear some sort of RFID tag transmitter like a mini, low power epirb so they can be pinpointed quickly by a receiver on the chase boat.

 

I don't know enough about these gadgets or the electronics around them, but if something can cut recovery time, it might help.

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It sounds as if the rescue divers had trouble locating Andrew.

 

If this is the case I wonder if the crew can wear some sort of RFID tag transmitter like a mini, low power epirb so they can be pinpointed quickly by a receiver on the chase boat.

 

I don't know enough about these gadgets or the electronics around them, but if something can cut recovery time, it might help.

 

 

The amount of time it took to find him was one of the more troubling things of this entire tragedy. Perhaps one easy but expensive lesson learned would be to have the guys all in bright gear with perhaps even those reflective stripes ALA highway worker vests ? Wearing all black and stuck under a hull or wing must have been difficult to find. The reports vary from ten min mentioned on most forums to as much as 15 min to locate him as reported in todays L.A Times .

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Some kind of remotely activateable locator seems an excellent idea to me too.

 

I could even imagine a screen on a RIB pinpointing the location of each wearer, that light blinking in its last location if signal was lost.

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It sounds as if the rescue divers had trouble locating Andrew.

 

If this is the case I wonder if the crew can wear some sort of RFID tag transmitter like a mini, low power epirb so they can be pinpointed quickly by a receiver on the chase boat.

 

I don't know enough about these gadgets or the electronics around them, but if something can cut recovery time, it might help.

 

A REALLY bright submersion activated strobe on their backs probably wouldn't hurt, bright enough to be seen through a couple of metres of murky water from the surface.

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Wings should be clear plastic with no advertising so that anyone trapped under can be easily seen.

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It sounds as if the rescue divers had trouble locating Andrew.

 

If this is the case I wonder if the crew can wear some sort of RFID tag transmitter like a mini, low power epirb so they can be pinpointed quickly by a receiver on the chase boat.

 

I don't know enough about these gadgets or the electronics around them, but if something can cut recovery time, it might help.

 

A REALLY bright submersion activated strobe on their backs probably wouldn't hurt, bright enough to be seen through a couple of metres of murky water from the surface.

Already discussed in the Artemis? thread. Dye packs, strobe lights and audio alarms. Basically make as much noise and visual indicators as possible.

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REALLY bright submersion activated strobe on their backs probably wouldn't hurt, bright enough to be seen through a couple of metres of murky water from the surface.

+ 1

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A great loss. A sad day for sailing.

 

I'm a former Olympic multihull crew. I was trapped under a turtled Tornado catamaran in the last race of the 1988 Olympics. We had just cart-wheeled torward the end of first reach in a 40 knot puff. The boat became airborn and landed upside down in the turtle position. As crew, I was hooked into the trapeze wire. When I got my bearings after impact, I instinctvely began to kick toward to the surface. I was stopped 12 inches below the surface of the ocean by my trapese wire. I tried to reach down and unhook but my arm was not functioning as my shoulder had been violently dislocated during the crash. I was having difficulty unhooking with my other hand. I held my breath and kept trying to unhook from the trapeze hook, hoping that my skipper, Pete Melvin was close by. The clock was ticking fast but he got to me in time and pulled the quick release on the trapeze hook and I shot to the surface taking in a deep gulp of air. I owe my life to him.

 

Fast boats are dangerous when things go wrong. We know that when we step aboard. It is a risk we are willing to accept.

 

From what I have heard over the last few months since Artemis first launched is that this boat has gone through signicicant repair and rework. This can be seen by some as normal during a Cup cycle, especially with the introduction of a new class.

 

The the most eye opening incident was the main beam cracking during load testing as the boat was towed on the bay without the wing in place. Apparently the beam was not properly supported while the rig was not in place. If some of the reports we are hearing about yesterday's event are true, the main beam folded, the wing fell and one of the hulls tore away, as the main beam was split into two pieces. This is called a total catastrophic failure. Nothing the sailors can do at that point. Nathan's father stated that his son reported to him that he was just sailing normally and the main beam broke in two. It is possible that the beam broke while stuffing the bows, but that is a normal sailing condition and should not a cause massive structural failure. The beam should definately survive a capsize as well. It is the main structural element of the entire yacht. It should be the last thing to fail. Ever. Even in the America's Cup class.

 

I'm not an engineer, but I can't stress enough how critical the main beam is to keeping these boats in one piece. If if goes, everything else fails very quickly as the whole boat folds up on itself, possible trapping the crew. Carbon fiber is not something that is easily repaired to first quality. Especally with something as highly loaded like the main beam, You want a lot of straight, continuous fibers spanning from port to starboard to take the strain and twisting. Repair splices, discontinous fibers and hearing load cracking noises are not desireble for a part like this. Personally, I would have had serious reservations, sailing at 40 knots with a repaired main beam that had cracked and repaired earlier.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think this is so much about pich-poling, going too fast or the bay being too windy. If the boat broke, it's about engineering and/or sailing with equioment that was not up not up to the job. Why wasn't that beam replaced? Maybe it was replaced. I dont have all the facts, but it did break in two. That we can see.

 

God speed Bart

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If the boat broke, it's about engineering and/or sailing with equioment that was not up not up to the job. Why wasn't that beam replaced? Maybe it was replaced. I dont have all the facts, but it did break in two. That we can see.

 

 

The failure of the beam is not necessarily an engineering problem .. in this case where a number of failures have preceded it they seem to be having problems with the build quality .

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It sounds as if the rescue divers had trouble locating Andrew.

 

If this is the case I wonder if the crew can wear some sort of RFID tag transmitter like a mini, low power epirb so they can be pinpointed quickly by a receiver on the chase boat.

 

I don't know enough about these gadgets or the electronics around them, but if something can cut recovery time, it might help.

EM signals don't propagate very well in water, it attenuates the signal quite well. Hence Sonar (acoustic waves), nor Radar (Electromagnetic waves).

But the basic premise of your point is worth considering, as with the earlier dye comment.

 

If I could be so bold as to offer my opinion, and it is sad that we have to disclaim our posts that way in this environment, it might be worth bearing in mind that people who post and read here come from diverse backgrounds. For some, trying to understand the technical failure is how they may deal with tragedy, for others, sharing condolences and kind words is the preferred approach. For yet others, disavowing these boats is the coping mechanism. Folks, there is no wrong or right, but in all of the vitriol, criticism, and especially the name calling - including wishing things like death on other posters - we ALL lose sight of the horrible tragedy which has occurred, for a young family, a wife, relatives, teammates and peers. Everybody who follows this sport, ardently or occasionally, regular posters or not, has felt something by this accident, and I would sincerely like to believe that nobody would have wished anything like this on anyone. So maybe, in the spirit of mutual mourning and coping, we can remember that people approach these difficult emotions in different ways, and we can live and let live. If we see approaches we wouldn't take, we can choose to ignore them, and not amplify our differences through retorts and arguments which crowd out the truly heart-wrenching events which have happened.

 

In all of that, the most important thing is for those closest to the family and friends of Andrew to be supported, and for a positive memory of the man to be cherished.

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