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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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addy2012

The TRUTH behind the Inglorious demise of Latitudes and Attitudes

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What a Mongolian Cluster Fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Why - in 2011 - ANYONE would think a print magazine about cruising with beyond horrible financials was a valuable property is beyond me when said magazine was clearly a vehicle for one or two people to party it up .

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very interesting story

 

not the first sailing magazine to hit the rocks - nor the last

 

the web has killed all the classified adverts - look at the links to craigslist and ebay on here

 

and that left the display adverts

 

again killed by the web

 

who wants to look at a display advert when you can click on a youtube tour of the boat and a few shots of it sailing - often with a pretty tanned girl on board

 

then ask a forum about the boat - a real sailor will pop up to offer you hands on advice - of the boat and possibly the girl as well

 

 

there will still be a few old style sailing magazines - such as small craft advisor - selling to old blokes who like dense blocks of copy

 

the money is $100 a page. That covers maybe three hours at the keyboard - but I write for them because I love the magazine for all its sepia craziness

 

 

I am a freelance hack and do not buy sailing magazines over here

 

 

30 years ago they were paying £100 a page plus £25 for each picture - £50 for a front cover

 

now they pay....

 

£100 a page for the copy and zip all for pictures

 

so the quality of the copy has fallen - no money for research - no scope for a freelance to focus on sailing stories

 

 

and pose any question you fancy on here and you will get all the answers you could ever need

 

you soon get to know the people who will blather hot air and those who actually know stuff

 

no point in looking to the magazines for news - it is all written months in advance

 

so what do they have to sell?

 

dreams - and there are plenty of those for free on the web

 

 

It is a long and facinating read - and good for the blokes for writing it and for trying to save a magazine

 

I am sure that Bob is a great bloke - high energy - and man he knows how to fill a screen with his presence

 

but the story reads to me as though some well endowed hobby sailors, who had turned companies around, thought that they could turn this one around as well

 

 

magazines are like steam engines in the day of the electric train

 

some will hang around out of sentiment - but most will go to the scrap yard

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Whatever happens please nobody ask for the newbie to show tits. NTTAWWT

 

Regarding the story, poorly written at best, but it may be maybe factual. Who knows, who cares.

 

I agree with kent that the magazine deteriorated into a vehicle for a few people to party it up. Will be interesting too see how the online community over there digests this.

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Seems the plan was:

Buy magazine for X$ without cash in hand.

Take ownership.

Raise money somehow to pay Bob the $X.

 

So now you own a magazine that has such horrible financials that no one with any money would ever think of investing in it.

Said magazine is fairly unique in being essentially the opinions and adventures of exactly ONE person and said person is not too keen on cooperating for various reasons including lack of $X.

Buyers financial issues are compounded by buying the Lost Soul for over a quarter million dollars - seems VERY generous to me - and then discovering Bob is no longer all that interested in what is no longer his boat.

Various shenanigans ensue.

Magazine is out of business.

 

 

That it for the short version?

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I see an opera in the future. The two gay guy roles can be sung by baritones and Bob Bitchin (Lipkin) roile can be sung by a counter tenor.

Oh yeah. This will work.

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Why anyone would even consider buying a business from a fat, drunken ex-biker is beyond me. Of course you're going to lose - their basic credo is that everyone outside their little circle is fair game.

 

My personal rules of thumb? The more I'm spending, the fewer the number of tattos that are acceptable. If more than 10% of their body is tattos, I walk, no matter how little I'm spending. :D

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Goodness, where have I been?

 

Have opened one or two copies of L&A over the years. Might have been a fine magazine, but wasn't written for me.

 

As someone who has lived all his life working in print media, mostly newspapers and one magazine company, I agree with Dylan 100%. Paper is a dead medium, a fish on dry land making a few last desperate flips.

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Seems the plan was:

Buy magazine for X$ without cash in hand.

Take ownership.

Raise money somehow to pay Bob the $X.

 

So now you own a magazine that has such horrible financials that no one with any money would ever think of investing in it.

Said magazine is fairly unique in being essentially the opinions and adventures of exactly ONE person and said person is not too keen on cooperating for various reasons including lack of $X.

Buyers financial issues are compounded by buying the Lost Soul for over a quarter million dollars - seems VERY generous to me - and then discovering Bob is no longer all that interested in what is no longer his boat.

Various shenanigans ensue.

Magazine is out of business.

 

 

That it for the short version?

 

Pretty much, but you leave out lots of gems. Like the sale of their boat.

 

It has been portrayed that we did not own our boat Wyvern. As you can see by the Bill of Sale that is blatantly false. What you also do not know is that we decided to sell her to use the money to help the magazine meet payroll and other critical expenses. We found a buyer and they paid me a 10K deposit. I was so confident in the sale that I used the money to meet payroll. Unfortuantely the buyers changed their mind and the timing was equally unfortunate. The magazine was in the middle of its final death throes and in the collapse of everything else… We did not take their money and keep it for ourselves, we used it for payroll so that the people who would come to stab us in the back could get paid.

 

Avast.

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That pitiful rag's only use was a birdcage liner to begin with.

 

The lamest of content of Reader Digest recycled jokes wrapped in maritime misbehavior - I never saw the appeal myself.

 

I didn't wade through Kent Islands' thesis or click the link.

 

Not one fuck was given.

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Sad to watch as blame gets spread like butter on hot bread. I suppose the take home is undercapitalized magazines are like aircraft without sufficient airspeed. They crash every time and virtually all crashes have multifactorial causes. Greed, theft, incompetence , more sizzle than steak are just a few. BTW Bitching is too Falstaffian for anything but a baritone !

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BTW Bitching is too Falstaffian for anything but a baritone !

I disagree! I think bitching implies an almost whiny quality that could be better imparted by a counter tenor. Or better yet! Give the roll to a woman ala current performance practice of Handel's Giulio Cesare. Though I'm not sure how Bob Bitchin would feel about being portayed by a woman. Better than a castrato??

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Why anyone would even consider buying a business from a fat, drunken ex-biker is beyond me. Of course you're going to lose - their basic credo is that everyone outside their little circle is fair game.

 

My personal rules of thumb? The more I'm spending, the fewer the number of tattos that are acceptable. If more than 10% of their body is tattos, I walk, no matter how little I'm spending. :D

 

Man, can you think of a couple of people who fit that?.

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I can't even figure out who got ripped off. Bob did manage - apparently - to get $100K + $280K more for an old boat in a down market out of a bankrupt and dying business, so he actually didn't do too bad. The guys that "bought" a company without actually having the money or a viable plan to run it................got about as far as one would expect with a business that NO ONE who knew anything about it would consider viable.

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I can't even figure out who got ripped off. Bob did manage - apparently - to get $100K + $280K more for an old boat in a down market out of a bankrupt and dying business, so he actually didn't do too bad. The guys that "bought" a company without actually having the money or a viable plan to run it................got about as far as one would expect with a business that NO ONE who knew anything about it would consider viable.

 

Well...I'm pretty certain I'm never going to see the last four years of the five year subscription I bought in 2011.

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Thanks for summarising the story guys.

 

The sad thIng is you lost half an hour of your life reading that drivel.

 

I tried a couple of paragraphs, decided he needed a dose of HTFU, and moved on.

 

I have heard this sort of story so many times from friends who sold or bought businesses, at least the lawyers might win in the end.

 

My wife and I closed / gave away our businesses rather than risk the next five years in that sort of mess.

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Ha, thinking you can turn around a print magazine is like a guy thinking he can turn around a lesbian.

 

Can't blame a guy for trying though, think about the rewards! about the lesbian I mean.

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Ha, thinking you can turn around a print magazine is like a guy thinking he can turn around a lesbian.

 

Can't blame a guy for trying though, think about the rewards! about the lesbian I mean.

 

Like hairy armpits?

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Ha, thinking you can turn around a print magazine is like a guy thinking he can turn around a lesbian.

 

Can't blame a guy for trying though, think about the rewards! about the lesbian I mean.

 

Like hairy armpits?

 

Fuck off, seriously I mean fuck off, Can't a man have a nice little fantasy without some one spoiling it? :lol:

 

FD

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Ha, thinking you can turn around a print magazine is like a guy thinking he can turn around a lesbian.

 

Can't blame a guy for trying though, think about the rewards! about the lesbian I mean.

 

Like hairy armpits?

 

Fuck off, seriously I mean fuck off, Can't a man have a nice little fantasy without some one spoiling it? :lol:

 

FD

 

How 'bout braided hairy armpits? You know, Hornby Island style.

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I see an opera in the future. The two gay guy roles can be sung by baritones and Bob Bitchin (Lipkin) roile can be sung by a counter tenor.

Oh yeah. This will work.

 

Would it be a tragic opera (genuine blood-in-the-footlights stuff), or buffa/commedia del'arte? Let us call it "Rivenditori di Sogni" (Retailers of Dreams). Long, self-serving declaimations a la Sigfried -- interspersed with midgets in facepaint hitting each other with bladders on sticks whilst the chorus makes fart noises.

 

Cast

Deprecio (bar.), merchant

Fellatio (ten.), merchant

Bobo (count. ten.), a gelato seller

Lawyers

Unemployed journos (chorus)

 

Act 1.i

 

[A fat man with tattoos pedals an ice-cream vendor's tricycle across the stage. Calliope music]

 

Deprecio: I've had a look at the financials, pet, and I fear we shall not make payroll.

Fellatio: You worry too much. You always worry. It gives you age lines. You should be happy, like before.

Dep.: We're selling lifestyles, but no one's buying. We're selling dreams, but dreams are free on the internet.

Fel.: Dreams should be free, my love. As free as the wind and the waves, as free as a sailboat on the ocean blue.

Dep:That too we must discuss. How much did we pay for our sailboat?

Fel. Bobo needed the money. He wanted to buy a gelato stand. Is he not a happy man now, Bobo?

 

[bobo enters from left, sucking suggestively on a Rocket Pop.]

 

Bobo: Oh yeah!

 

[slaps gut. Exits]

 

Fel. We could be happy like Bobo. It's all a dream, we are the purveyors of dreams. Why fret about the lawyers, the unpaid bills, making payroll?

 

Chorus: [fart noises]

 

...

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Floater:

Get a grip on yourself.

 

Diarm:

Nice work! Great. I can't wait to see it. Could you please write in a role for Cecilia Bartoli. She's a favorite of mine. I love her voice and her big butt.

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Oooh, ooh... Bartoli could play The Lost Soul, object of contention between the parties. Costumed as a classic ship's figurehead, with bosom spilling forth and hair flying, she laments the foolish behavior of the men around her, as she slips into neglect. Her Act IV aria, "Barca Solitaria", stops the show: "Who will paint my bottom now, / who will trim my sails? / Lawyers' hands are cold hands, / A boat without love must die."

 

 

2003LostSoulUnderway.jpg

 

She could strap some davits on her booty, if you like that sort of thing.;)

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Like the man said....

 

"I ended up with a million dollars in the bank after 4 years in the the sailing mag business. I started out with 3 million dollars."

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Reluctantly, I cannot reveal EVERYTHING for legal reasons, but we are prepared and ready to do just that in court, if and when the time comes.

 

Well, I couldn't read it. I hope what ever role the author had in the publishing world, it wasn't as a editor.

 

I think the usual advice to anyone wanting to publish a tale like this is to write, put it in drawer, and forget about it. It can't possibly improve your reputation with public. It won't help, and may hurt, pending litigation, and may trigger new litigation. It's a losing move.

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Gee wizz Diarm! You have a knack for this. "Who will paint my bottom now, / who will trim my sails? " Me! Me!

I can see my darling Cecilia as a figurehead.

 

I bought her cd MISSION but I have yet to make it all the way through in one listening. It's a bit over my head.

 

We're going to need a lot of bottom paint though.

post-2980-0-74559900-1368988238_thumb.jpg

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Diarm:

I don't want to pressure you but I was thinking.

With Bitchin sung by a counter tenor maybe the two gay buyers could be Fasolt and Fafner type basses.

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That pitiful rag's only use was a birdcage liner to begin with.

 

The lamest of content of Reader Digest recycled jokes wrapped in maritime misbehavior - I never saw the appeal myself.

 

I didn't wade through Kent Islands' thesis or click the link.

 

Not one fuck was given.

 

They had some decent boobies once in a while.

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That pitiful rag's only use was a birdcage liner to begin with.

 

The lamest of content of Reader Digest recycled jokes wrapped in maritime misbehavior - I never saw the appeal myself.

 

I didn't wade through Kent Islands' thesis or click the link.

 

Not one fuck was given.

 

They had some decent boobies once in a while.

Also available free on the internet. (So I'm told.)

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Perhaps they should have bought the U.S. postal service, and tried to save that business to, after all, its just more zeros....

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I dunno Bob, somehow I can't picture the counter tenor singing the B. Bitchin role; a guy that big has gotta sing down low. Would you settle for a re-incarnation of Ivan Rebroff singing the part both ways?

 

I kinda always had a juvenile fascination with Lats & Atts. I will miss reading it in the head (although the paper was definitely not Sears & Roebuck quality).

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I dunno Bob, somehow I can't picture the counter tenor singing the B. Bitchin role; a guy that big has gotta sing down low.

That's why it's funny! Cecilia booming along under Bobo's falsetto.

 

Which, BTW, is one of my fave musical stunts -- a duet where male & female voices exchange the high part. Josh Ritter did a harmony like that with sultry Karin Bergquist of Over the Rhine. Track 8.

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Yeah, I think Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers did that too on ISLANDS IN THE STREAM.

 

We gotta keep Bob B. in the counter tenor. I think the castratti were big, fat fellows anyway. Things get strange when they cut your nuts off. So I'm told.

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Yeah, I think Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers did that too on ISLANDS IN THE STREAM.

 

We gotta keep Bob B. in the counter tenor. I think the castratti were big, fat fellows anyway. Things get strange when they cut your nuts off. So I'm told.

Because the lack of testosterone affected their bone growth, castrattri often had very long limbs and huge rib cages. The irony here is that they were the rock stars of their time. So in the 18th century, if you wanted to get the girls, chopping off your balls was the way to go...glad that trend passed! :blink:

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Yeah, I think Dolly Parton and Kenny Rogers did that too on ISLANDS IN THE STREAM.

 

We gotta keep Bob B. in the counter tenor. I think the castratti were big, fat fellows anyway. Things get strange when they cut your nuts off. So I'm told.

Because the lack of testosterone affected their bone growth, castrattri often had very long limbs and huge rib cages. The irony here is that they were the rock stars of their time. So in the 18th century, if you wanted to get the girls, chopping off your balls was the way to go...glad that trend passed! :blink:

 

You can say a lot of things about Bob B, but lacking balls aint one of them.

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Suddenly, I find myself very interested in opera.

Introducing me to Cecilia Bartoli is the only productive thing to come out of this thread.

 

Yum.

 

Gee wizz Diarm! You have a knack for this. "Who will paint my bottom now, / who will trim my sails? " Me! Me!

I can see my darling Cecilia as a figurehead.

 

I bought her cd MISSION but I have yet to make it all the way through in one listening. It's a bit over my head.

 

We're going to need a lot of bottom paint though.

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That pitiful rag's only use was a birdcage liner to begin with.

 

The lamest of content of Reader Digest recycled jokes wrapped in maritime misbehavior - I never saw the appeal myself.

 

I didn't wade through Kent Islands' thesis or click the link.

 

Not one fuck was given.

 

They had some decent boobies once in a while.

Also available free on the internet. (So I'm told.)

 

 

Pics or they didn't happen.

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wasted 10 minutes of my life - skimming the link. Too funny.

 

 

 

 

 

What role does Katheleen Battle get ?

 

 

 

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The funniest part of that whole rant/screed/whatever was when they referred to Latitudes and Attitudes as "intellectual property".

 

Clearly they never read their own magazine.

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What role does Katheleen Battle get ?

 

Only one female, and that's the boat. We are talking, here, about the realities of sail cruising. ^_^ Like early opera and theatre, women are not permitted on that stage. They confuse the lads. If we had both Cecilia and Kathleen, Bobo would crash his tricycle into the orchestra pit.

 

 

 

They had some decent boobies once in a while.

Also available free on the internet. (So I'm told.)

 

 

Pics or they didn't happen.

Nice boobies.

 

(Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. But sailors sure like them boobies.)

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Oooh, ooh... Bartoli could play The Lost Soul, object of contention between the parties. Costumed as a classic ship's figurehead, with bosom spilling forth and hair flying, she laments the foolish behavior of the men around her, as she slips into neglect. Her Act IV aria, "Barca Solitaria", stops the show: "Who will paint my bottom now, / who will trim my sails? / Lawyers' hands are cold hands, / A boat without love must die."

 

Now THIS is quality content ! Damn, you have the VIBE down solid.

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SemI;

We can get Amati to compose it. I think it should be sung in Italian. Not sure we actually want to understand what they are saying/singing. We can get Cazza Randa to translate Diarm's libretto.

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What could possibly go wrong?
You buy a print magazine when the internet is making print obsolete.

You acknowledge to everyone, including the seller that you don't have the money to execute the deal or to print the first issue (based on financials that you did due diligence on).

You say you are a turnaround expert on failing businesses, you buy the old owner a $280,000 boat to use and pay him $100,000 a year to use it.

Your seller's name is Mr. Bitchin.

 

I just can't see anything wrong with this logic!

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What could possibly go wrong?

You buy a print magazine when the internet is making print obsolete.

You acknowledge to everyone, including the seller that you don't have the money to execute the deal or to print the first issue (based on financials that you did due diligence on).

You say you are a turnaround expert on failing businesses, you buy the old owner a $280,000 boat to use and pay him $100,000 a year to use it.

Your seller's name is Mr. Bitchin.

 

I just can't see anything wrong with this logic!

 

Bob clearly did not understand the aging, out of shape, overly horny, cruiser demographic that L&A catered to, and so was unable to fully monetize the brand. The gay guys could see that, and were much more in tune with the L&A audience than Bitchin.

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SemI;

We can get Amati to compose it. I think it should be sung in Italian. Not sure we actually want to understand what they are saying/singing. We can get Cazza Randa to translate Diarm's libretto.

 

Amati? Will it be all violins?

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SemI;

We can get Amati to compose it. I think it should be sung in Italian. Not sure we actually want to understand what they are saying/singing. We can get Cazza Randa to translate Diarm's libretto.

 

Amati? Will it be all violins?

 

No, we'll need some sax too.

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The sad thIng is you lost half an hour of your life reading that drivel.

 

I tried a couple of paragraphs, decided he needed a dose of HTFU, and moved on.

 

 

No shit!

 

After about paragraph three I was begging for the Cliff Notes You can count the cogent sentences on one hand in that diatribe. Oh, and he could learn to use proper spelling to keep proper context. Words do mean things.

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Sax onstage is always fun to watch.

 

 

I loved this part:

First of all, do any of you REALLY believe that 2 Gay Guys could bamboozle THE Bob Bitchin that easily? Seriously?

 

So the ever-popular gays are too stupid to fool anyone meme? WTF?

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Bob clearly did not understand the aging, out of shape, overly horny, cruiser demographic that L&A catered to,

 

Hey! I resemble that comment!

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I agree. Exactly what does their sexual orientation have to do with their potential ability to defraud someone?

If a straight person had made such a commment, the LGBT culture would be lamenting the hate and discrimination against them.

 

I love how they play the "gay card" both ways when it suits them.

Sax onstage is always fun to watch.

 

 

I loved this part:

First of all, do any of you REALLY believe that 2 Gay Guys could bamboozle THE Bob Bitchin that easily? Seriously?

 

So the ever-popular gays are too stupid to fool anyone meme? WTF?

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Jim:

Those sax's were interjected into TURANDOT by the guy who finished it for PUCCINI.

After the first run through the promoter told the guy the opera needed "more sex" the take over composer though he said, "More sax."

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I agree. Exactly what does their sexual orientation have to do with their potential ability to defraud someone?

If a straight person had made such a commment, the LGBT culture would be lamenting the hate and discrimination against them.

 

I love how they play the "gay card" both ways when it suits them.

Sax onstage is always fun to watch.

 

 

I loved this part:

First of all, do any of you REALLY believe that 2 Gay Guys could bamboozle THE Bob Bitchin that easily? Seriously?

 

So the ever-popular gays are too stupid to fool anyone meme? WTF?

 

Yeah, that was really stupid on their part. Hey Gay Guys, your orientation is irrelevant to the business situation unless someone else makes it so.

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My fear is that if one of us had mentioned they were gay we woud be labeled bigots. But they can mention it with impunity and then act like it affords them some special status.

I agree with BJ. It has nothing at all to so with this.

But it will work great in the opera.

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Bob clearly did not understand the aging, out of shape, overly horny, cruiser demographic that L&A catered to,

 

Hey! I resemble that comment!

 

Yeah, me too, well except my cruising is limited to weekends on the lake. I had just started a new subscription with them and never got the first issue out of it.

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Yeah - For the Opera it will totally work!

 

Two castrati chase BobBitchio all over the stage while the Fat Lady tries to cut them off and claim her prize.

 

..and pirates; can we have pirates for a touch of Gilbert and Sullivan? That'll camp it up nicely.

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Of course you can have pirates Tricky. Got to have some pirates.

We can get Amati to write a duet for the buyers ( bass voices) the duet will be based on BLOW THE MAN DOWN.

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Yeah - For the Opera it will totally work!

 

Two castrati chase BobBitchio all over the stage while the Fat Lady tries to cut them off and claim her prize.

 

..and pirates; can we have pirates for a touch of Gilbert and Sullivan? That'll camp it up nicely.

Well, it's "light" opera init?

 

Er....NTTAWWT. Just a little light in the Topsiders.

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I think that the boat needs its own theme. As a professional horn player, might I humbly sugest to the composer something like Seigfried's long call. Even an opera buffa needs a little drama!

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DAMN! This such an erudite bunch over here at CA. We gotta get Robert Lepage working at staging this at the Met...will the stage be big enough for Bitchin (and the sax)?

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Yeah, that's it. A huge teeter totter that covers the Met stage with the castratti Bitchin on one end and the alternating rest of the cast on the other. We can shift the fulcrum hydraulically so it stays in balance.

Imagine that. The teeter totter teetering in a sea and wave like motion and rhythm with big, fat, old counter tenor Bob on one end and the two Fasolt and Fafner gay basses on the other end. Maybe my darling Cecilia at the fulcrum.

This will be spectacular!

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I think that the boat needs its own theme. As a professional horn player, might I humbly sugest to the composer something like Seigfried's long call. Even an opera buffa needs a little drama!

B) aka a respectable person involved in culturally and professionally acceptable blowjobs :lol:

 

this Bob B. guy has some Wagnerian aspects, so you might conceive this as gay opera buffo meets over the top Wagnerian over the top drama

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Alby:

I think I can provide Bob B's costume. I'm sure my son would be willing to lend it for the production.

Not sure my darling granddaughter is ready for the Met stage yet though.

post-2980-0-86191300-1369235001_thumb.jpg

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Thanks for summarising the story guys.

 

The sad thIng is you lost half an hour of your life reading that drivel.

 

I tried a couple of paragraphs, decided he needed a dose of HTFU, and moved on.

 

I have heard this sort of story so many times from friends who sold or bought businesses, at least the lawyers might win in the end.

 

My wife and I closed / gave away our businesses rather than risk the next five years in that sort of mess.

I lost more than that because it was so horrifically formatted, with only sporadic punctuation and Randomly capitalised Letters all over the place that I had to read it pretty slowly, and read certain parts multiple times just to try to figure out what exactly they were trying to say. Oh well, I guess writing a magazine was just not for them; shame they had to lose their boat over it.

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