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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

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Guest One of Five

Top IRS official will invoke 5th Amendment - from the LA TImes

247 posts in this topic

Here's one in my old stomping grounds, the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church.

 

http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494213060010

 

Sixteen million in assessed value off of the tax rolls, for the organization that brought us the "Reclaiming America for Christ" political conference.

Their school is good for another 14 mill off the books: http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212170010

 

That's about 600K per year, all up, that they save. I'm sure that the owners of the hotel next door would love to be able to save the 150K per year they pay for their business property. http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212000551

 

The budget remains the same, so everyone else's taxes go up via higher millage, to cover that exemption.

 

That is the counter to the little Episcopal church in Jim Thorpe which I described. I am ok with taxing churches, just pointing out that the taxes fall on all of them alike, and the fallout will be more than the Pope having to cut back on his shoe purchases or hold off on the pope mobile trade up. There are going to be institutions that have longstanding ties to communities which will go away, and the only way to avoid that would be to show the very type of favoritism which is forbidden by the 1A.

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Here's one in my old stomping grounds, the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church.

 

http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494213060010

 

Sixteen million in assessed value off of the tax rolls, for the organization that brought us the "Reclaiming America for Christ" political conference.

Their school is good for another 14 mill off the books: http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212170010

 

That's about 600K per year, all up, that they save. I'm sure that the owners of the hotel next door would love to be able to save the 150K per year they pay for their business property. http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212000551

 

The budget remains the same, so everyone else's taxes go up via higher millage, to cover that exemption.

 

That is the counter to the little Episcopal church in Jim Thorpe which I described. I am ok with taxing churches, just pointing out that the taxes fall on all of them alike, and the fallout will be more than the Pope having to cut back on his shoe purchases or hold off on the pope mobile trade up. There are going to be institutions that have longstanding ties to communities which will go away, and the only way to avoid that would be to show the very type of favoritism which is forbidden by the 1A.

That's a good point. I am torn over it. I find Coral Ridge's exemption to be obscene, after they started their conference. They also put one of their prominent members onto the City Commission, where as Vice Mayor he pushed through a law banning alcohol in nude bars, because it led men to go to prostitutes. Shortly thereafter, the "Vice" Mayor got videotaped doing the ten toed sheet dance with a notorious prostitute, whose Sheriff's deputy husband was filming from the closet.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-09-20/news/9103110540_1_kathy-willets-jeffrey-willets-doug-danziger

 

I digress, but Dandy Doug was such a pompous asshole that I couldn't resist.

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I would be ok with allowing churches to avoid property taxes if they also rely solely on God for services. No fire, police, sewer, garbage,roads, etc.

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Here's one in my old stomping grounds, the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church.

 

http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494213060010

 

Sixteen million in assessed value off of the tax rolls, for the organization that brought us the "Reclaiming America for Christ" political conference.

Their school is good for another 14 mill off the books: http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212170010

 

That's about 600K per year, all up, that they save. I'm sure that the owners of the hotel next door would love to be able to save the 150K per year they pay for their business property. http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212000551

 

The budget remains the same, so everyone else's taxes go up via higher millage, to cover that exemption.

 

That is the counter to the little Episcopal church in Jim Thorpe which I described. I am ok with taxing churches, just pointing out that the taxes fall on all of them alike, and the fallout will be more than the Pope having to cut back on his shoe purchases or hold off on the pope mobile trade up. There are going to be institutions that have longstanding ties to communities which will go away, and the only way to avoid that would be to show the very type of favoritism which is forbidden by the 1A.

That's a good point. I am torn over it. I find Coral Ridge's exemption to be obscene, after they started their conference. They also put one of their prominent members onto the City Commission, where as Vice Mayor he pushed through a law banning alcohol in nude bars, because it led men to go to prostitutes. Shortly thereafter, the "Vice" Mayor got videotaped doing the ten toed sheet dance with a notorious prostitute, whose Sheriff's deputy husband was filming from the closet.

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-09-20/news/9103110540_1_kathy-willets-jeffrey-willets-doug-danziger

 

I digress, but Dandy Doug was such a pompous asshole that I couldn't resist.

 

Yep, I hear you. I was more than a little pissed at seeing the wealth flaunted by Rev Ike's and Rev Moon's kids while my parents, a nurse and car salesman at the time, were struggling to pay tuition and taxes at the same time. There is no easy answer here, anything is going to involve a little bit of bitter medicine, even if the answer is doing nothing.

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An exercise in mental masturbation: any attempt to tax or regulate churches will be met with a firestorm of attacks. If the Church of Skinnyology Spaology $cientology can get away with blatant abuses of wealth creation don't even think of going after the mainstream mega churches. Hubbard's creation has legions of attorney on retainer to attack any attempt to even question their right to be a church. The only thing that was accomplished is "donations" to them are not tax deductible, at least not in the 80's.

 

As I remember Jesus wasn't all that keen on big buildings, not that today's religions have any resemblance to their roots. The mega churches around these parts deliver the message that God wants you to be rich and allows the leader(s) to illustrate this by arriving in multimillion dollar choppers. Aimee Semple McPherson opened Pandora's box via the radio.

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The current pope is in agreement.

 

 

As I remember Jesus wasn't all that keen on big buildings, not that today's religions have any resemblance to their roots.

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The IRS should flag names and terms commonly associated with known scams masquerading as "religion" for extra examination before granting tax-exempt status. I think we can all agree on that...

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How about religions that ARE scams. Sorry, being redundant.

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Here's one in my old stomping grounds, the Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church.

 

http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494213060010

 

Sixteen million in assessed value off of the tax rolls, for the organization that brought us the "Reclaiming America for Christ" political conference.

Their school is good for another 14 mill off the books: http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212170010

 

That's about 600K per year, all up, that they save. I'm sure that the owners of the hotel next door would love to be able to save the 150K per year they pay for their business property. http://bcpa.net/RecInfo.asp?URL_Folio=494212000551

 

The budget remains the same, so everyone else's taxes go up via higher millage, to cover that exemption.

 

That is the counter to the little Episcopal church in Jim Thorpe which I described. I am ok with taxing churches, just pointing out that the taxes fall on all of them alike, and the fallout will be more than the Pope having to cut back on his shoe purchases or hold off on the pope mobile trade up. There are going to be institutions that have longstanding ties to communities which will go away, and the only way to avoid that would be to show the very type of favoritism which is forbidden by the 1A.

 

But.... As I've said - if the stated purpose of the churches tax exemption status is because they do charitable work in the community (which I agree with) and that will go away - then the easy SOLution is to make a separate and distinct charitable arm of the church. If they do that and firewall it from the religious side - its a WIN/WIN for all. They can still do their charity as well as preach about the evils of abortion from the pulpit. Of course the church property where they do that preaching will now be taxable, but hey..... welcome to the rest of us.

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An exercise in mental masturbation: any attempt to tax or regulate churches will be met with a firestorm of attacks. If the Church of Skinnyology Spaology $cientology can get away with blatant abuses of wealth creation don't even think of going after the mainstream mega churches. Hubbard's creation has legions of attorney on retainer to attack any attempt to even question their right to be a church. The only thing that was accomplished is "donations" to them are not tax deductible, at least not in the 80's.

 

As I remember Jesus wasn't all that keen on big buildings, not that today's religions have any resemblance to their roots. The mega churches around these parts deliver the message that God wants you to be rich and allows the leader(s) to illustrate this by arriving in multimillion dollar choppers. Aimee Semple McPherson opened Pandora's box via the radio.

 

Agreed. The "Prosperity Theology" is so morally bankrupt as to be obscene.

 

Another compelling reason to get the money out of politics. The more wealth you have, the more you can buy influence politicians. I know its always been that way, but the current system is so devoid of checks and balances now that its out of control.

 

Not sure how to put that genie back in the bottle though......

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Looks like some low level agens are scared shitless

 

 

TOM GRAVES: [...] Have either of you asked the individuals in Cincinnati who ordered this? Who ordered them to use this extra scrutiny to punish or penalize or postpone or deny? Has that question been asked of any employee?

 

J. RUSSELL GEORGE: Yeah. During our audit, Congressman, we did pose that question, and no one would acknowledge who, if anyone, provided that direction.

 

TOM GRAVES: So, no one would acknowledge who gave the directive to do this?

 

J. RUSSELL GEORGE: That’s correct. During the audit phase of this.

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This problem is going to last for a while. .. too bad.

 

I thought there was nothing here.

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He said he was going to give Issa to the end of the week, but Issa's response made it clear there was no reason to wait.

 

"His extreme and reckless assertions are a signal that his true motivation is stopping needed Congressional oversight and he has no genuine interest in working, on a bipartisan basis, to expose the full truth," Issa's statement read.

 

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18864636-issa-rejects-colleageues-claim-that-irs-case-is-solved?lite

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He said he was going to give Issa to the end of the week, but Issa's response made it clear there was no reason to wait.

 

"His extreme and reckless assertions are a signal that his true motivation is stopping needed Congressional oversight and he has no genuine interest in working, on a bipartisan basis, to expose the full truth," Issa's statement read.

 

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18864636-issa-rejects-colleageues-claim-that-irs-case-is-solved?lite

 

I am not a fan of Cummings. Besides, when he said this - ""Based upon everything I've seen, the case is solved,” Cummings said. "If it were me, I would wrap this case up and move on." - I laughed. It isn't his call, no matter how much he wishes it were.

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He said he was going to give Issa to the end of the week, but Issa's response made it clear there was no reason to wait.

 

"His extreme and reckless assertions are a signal that his true motivation is stopping needed Congressional oversight and he has no genuine interest in working, on a bipartisan basis, to expose the full truth," Issa's statement read.

 

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18864636-issa-rejects-colleageues-claim-that-irs-case-is-solved?lite

 

I am not a fan of Cummings. Besides, when he said this - ""Based upon everything I've seen, the case is solved,” Cummings said. "If it were me, I would wrap this case up and move on." - I laughed. It isn't his call, no matter how much he wishes it were.

 

Why don't you like Cummings?

 

He's not claiming it's his call, "if it were up to me". He's expressing his opinion there, not claiming authority.

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He said he was going to give Issa to the end of the week, but Issa's response made it clear there was no reason to wait.

 

"His extreme and reckless assertions are a signal that his true motivation is stopping needed Congressional oversight and he has no genuine interest in working, on a bipartisan basis, to expose the full truth," Issa's statement read.

 

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/09/18864636-issa-rejects-colleageues-claim-that-irs-case-is-solved?lite

 

I am not a fan of Cummings. Besides, when he said this - ""Based upon everything I've seen, the case is solved,” Cummings said. "If it were me, I would wrap this case up and move on." - I laughed. It isn't his call, no matter how much he wishes it were.

 

Why don't you like Cummings?

 

He's not claiming it's his call, "if it were up to me". He's expressing his opinion there, not claiming authority.

 

Not saying I don't like the guy. He seems nice enough.

 

I find him to be too predictable in that he takes the pragmatic position of making sure he is always in step with the Democratic political machinery here in Baltimore. That is why I am not a "fan".

 

I agree it is not his call. That is why I typed that very thing in the post to which you are responding.

 

In fact, I find his statement to me purely aimed at further ingratiating himself to the Democrats, instead of doing the work he should be doing.

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I've seen him as exceptionally patient, polite, and clear thinking in the face of some incredible stupidity and provocation. Doesn't say much, but what he says sure turns out to be dead-nuts on a great deal of the time.

 

He says those transcripts contain important information and Issa should have been releasing the whole deal and not just quoting bits he likes. Let's see how this shakes out.

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I've seen him as exceptionally patient, polite, and clear thinking in the face of some incredible stupidity and provocation. Doesn't say much, but what he says sure turns out to be dead-nuts on a great deal of the time.

 

He says those transcripts contain important information and Issa should have been releasing the whole deal and not just quoting bits he likes. Let's see how this shakes out.

 

That's what I meant when I typed "I can't wait to learn more about this "Manager"." This could be all political theater and nothing more. Or, it could be a smoking gun many would wish never went off.

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I've seen him as exceptionally patient, polite, and clear thinking in the face of some incredible stupidity and provocation. Doesn't say much, but what he says sure turns out to be dead-nuts on a great deal of the time.

 

He says those transcripts contain important information and Issa should have been releasing the whole deal and not just quoting bits he likes. Let's see how this shakes out.

 

 

This from the guy who left out the part about the gunwalking in his minority report whitewash on gunwalking? That's some clear thinking right there.

 

In other IRS news, I have seen several people question why anyone who is not in the military would need an AR-15. OK, tax collectors are not military, so let's apply that question to the IRS.

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I've seen him as exceptionally patient, polite, and clear thinking in the face of some incredible stupidity and provocation. Doesn't say much, but what he says sure turns out to be dead-nuts on a great deal of the time.

 

He says those transcripts contain important information and Issa should have been releasing the whole deal and not just quoting bits he likes. Let's see how this shakes out.

 

 

This from the guy who left out the part about the gunwalking in his minority report whitewash on gunwalking? That's some clear thinking right there.

 

In other IRS news, I have seen several people question why anyone who is not in the military would need an AR-15. OK, tax collectors are not military, so let's apply that question to the IRS.

 

America needs a civilian force as well equipped and funded as the military.

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I'd love an ASLAV for the commute to my office.

 

I'd like it fully armed for the drive home. Fucking motor bikes :)

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Monday came and went, on Tuesday, Democrat Cummings of Georgia releases 205 page transcript that details no White House involvement. Democrats loudly and overwhelmingly proclaim support and the continued Chairmanship and investigative leadership of Darrell Issa.

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You aren't suggesting, are you, that Darrel Issa's claims there is evidence of a high-level, politically motivated plot to target patriots with the IRS by the White House within the transcripts will be judged to have been pure, reeking whoppers, or "Malarkey", making Issa a high-paid liar?

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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57589725/irs-scandal-is-partisanship-overshadowing-facts/Still, Cummings himself has said that if Issa didn't release the transcripts, he would himself. And like Issa, he has only released excerpts. Furthermore, the transcripts that were released Monday somewhat undercut Cummings' efforts to take the focus off of Washington.

 

Paz told congressional investigators that her Washington office was crucially involved -- though she claims not deliberately -- in the delay of processing applications for conservative groups. For instance, Paz said that she believed references to "tea party" groups to be "shorthand" for all potentially politically-oriented groups -- not just conservative ones. "It's not uncommon for people to have a shorthand reference," she said.

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Wrong again TM, here are the full transcripts, all 205 pages in two parts http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_I.pdf

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_II.pdf

Among interesting tidbits is the part where an IRS screening manager a self declared Republican, declaring that there was absolutely no communication between the White House and senior IRS officials.

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Wrong again TM, here are the full transcripts, all 205 pages in two parts http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_I.pdf

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_II.pdf

Among interesting tidbits is the part where an IRS screening manager a self declared Republican, declaring that there was absolutely no communication between the White House and senior IRS officials.

 

It's amazing how some people will spend five seconds looking for something they hope not to find then declare that unsuccessful effort means it doesn't exist :lol:

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Wrong again TM, here are the full transcripts, all 205 pages in two parts http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_I.pdf

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_II.pdf

Among interesting tidbits is the part where an IRS screening manager a self declared Republican, declaring that there was absolutely no communication between the White House and senior IRS officials.

 

It's amazing how some people will spend five seconds looking for something they hope not to find then declare that unsuccessful effort means it doesn't exist :lol:

Oh give TM some slack. His head is still spinning when I pointed out that his boasting about having a brand new Cadillac indicated he has faith in the Obama economy and his utter hypocrisy of buying a GM product after saying such nasty things about Obama's bailout of the company. You just can't make this shit up.

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Wrong again TM, here are the full transcripts, all 205 pages in two parts http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_I.pdf

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_II.pdf

Among interesting tidbits is the part where an IRS screening manager a self declared Republican, declaring that there was absolutely no communication between the White House and senior IRS officials.

It's amazing how some people will spend five seconds looking for something they hope not to find then declare that unsuccessful effort means it doesn't exist :lol:

.

 

Take it up with CBS. It was their article .

 

What is truly amazing is the efforts some do to through out insults without even reading what some one posted.

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Wrong again TM, here are the full transcripts, all 205 pages in two parts http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_I.pdf

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_II.pdf

Among interesting tidbits is the part where an IRS screening manager a self declared Republican, declaring that there was absolutely no communication between the White House and senior IRS officials.

It's amazing how some people will spend five seconds looking for something they hope not to find then declare that unsuccessful effort means it doesn't exist :lol:

Oh give TM some slack. His head is still spinning when I pointed out that his boasting about having a brand new Cadillac indicated he has faith in the Obama economy and his utter hypocrisy of buying a GM product after saying such nasty things about Obama's bailout of the company. You just can't make this shit up.
Nothing you say really has any impact on me, but keep patting yourself on the back with your silly deductions.

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What is truly amazing is the thought that only the white house would benefit from this.

 

DNC or Union involvement is more likely and harder to track. The administration just provides cover for them.

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Wrong again TM, here are the full transcripts, all 205 pages in two parts http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_I.pdf

http://democrats.oversight.house.gov/images/stories/IRS_Screening_Manager_Part_II.pdf

Among interesting tidbits is the part where an IRS screening manager a self declared Republican, declaring that there was absolutely no communication between the White House and senior IRS officials.

It's amazing how some people will spend five seconds looking for something they hope not to find then declare that unsuccessful effort means it doesn't exist :lol:

 

.

Take it up with CBS. It was their article .

 

No need, I don't rely on them as my source to rebut posts made in this thread. Your source, your problem.

 

What is truly amazing is the efforts some do to through out insults without even reading what some one posted.

 

Read what you posted. It was wrong. A little more effort and you'd have found a source that gave you the right facts in this case. If you wish to claim that observation is an insult, well...

 

Nothing you say really has any impact on me, but keep patting yourself on the back with your silly deductions.

 

 

What is truly amazing is the thought that only the white house would benefit from this.

 

DNC or Union involvement is more likely and harder to track. The administration just provides cover for them.

 

Oh dear god. You can't even prove the administration is covering for the actions and you're already doubling down on the conspiracy theory?! YCMTSU :rolleyes:

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Issa is desperately searching for evidence to support his claim that the IRS scandal started with Obama. If it wasn't so pathetic, it would be funny.

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So is anyone keeping track of the failed/fizzled scandals? Looks like IRS is ready for the fork; AP seems kinda quite the past few days; NSA...has the listening to citizen calls/reading emails been substantiated or just claimed by the Snowden guy? Is Benghazi done yet?

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So is anyone keeping track of the failed/fizzled scandals? Looks like IRS is ready for the fork; AP seems kinda quite the past few days; NSA...has the listening to citizen calls/reading emails been substantiated or just claimed by the Snowden guy? Is Benghazi done yet?

 

Unless Issa is a masochist, I suspect Bengazi be gonzi.

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So is anyone keeping track of the failed/fizzled scandals? Looks like IRS is ready for the fork; AP seems kinda quite the past few days; NSA...has the listening to citizen calls/reading emails been substantiated or just claimed by the Snowden guy? Is Benghazi done yet?

Failed in what sense? The incompetence and corruption have been exposed.

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So is anyone keeping track of the failed/fizzled scandals? Looks like IRS is ready for the fork; AP seems kinda quite the past few days; NSA...has the listening to citizen calls/reading emails been substantiated or just claimed by the Snowden guy? Is Benghazi done yet?

Failed in what sense? The incompetence and corruption have been exposed.
Totally. Issa DOES look like a partisan hack.

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So is anyone keeping track of the failed/fizzled scandals? Looks like IRS is ready for the fork; AP seems kinda quite the past few days; NSA...has the listening to citizen calls/reading emails been substantiated or just claimed by the Snowden guy? Is Benghazi done yet?

Failed in what sense? The incompetence and corruption have been exposed.
Totally. Issa DOES look like a partisan hack.

 

Issa exposed himself.

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