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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Henley Hornbrook

Bridge Collapse in Mt Vernon Washington

32 posts in this topic

Bart Treece with the Washington state Department of Transportation said he was not immediately aware of the age of the bridge.

"All of our bridges in the area are pretty old," he said, according to ABC News Radio. "I don't have an exact date on this, and we're still checking out some of the details behind it."

The bridge was built in 1955, according to The Associated Press, citing federal records.

I think this sums up what is wrong with much of "Merica" and one can not even blame Obama for it ! Any bridge requires regular maintenance and a quick look around ... even America... would show that some bridges in NYC and San Fran, would be considered a bridge & safe, not old!

 

The way things are headed with this pass the buck mentality and acceptence of crazy planning, like the recent fertilizer plant, will guarantee that within 20 years it may just be safer in currently 3rd world places like India & Indonesia, than the cash strapped USA!

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It appears that the bridge may have come down because the structural girders were hit by a truck. If so, lack of maintenance was not the issue.

 

Or, the truck may have just been on the bridge as it was coming down. I don't think anyone knows yet.

 

There is a smaller bridge over the river about 1/4 mile to the east. I assume they will be routing traffic over that for a while. Just a guess though.

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It might have been nice to spend some of that "stimulus" money on infrastructure, much like FDR did in the Great Depression. 99 week unemployment and solar powered cars really didn't pay back so well. That said, the facts on this particular bridge are not in yet, there are however plenty of others that you wouldn't walk across if you were aware of their condition.

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got a sailing friend from college that drives over that bridge regularly. He was a little spooked last night on FB.

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just looked at our town on that map. Some of the info doesn't add up or is out of date. They have 2 bridges at one spot where there is only 1. 1 bridge has ben closed for almost 10 years but is listed at 150 cars a day, and one bridge that is being replaced next year is listed as fine (but it isn't).

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The bridge was solid. Quit pitching about infrastructure. An oversized load hit part of the structure that caused the collapse according to reports. The truck driver realized his load sagged something and stopped on the otherside . Why does every incident have to be blamed on govt or spending.

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Looks like the truck that triggered this collapse was from Canada....

I crossed the bridge myself last week.

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I read the truck had a pilot car that hit the bridge with the feelers - and the truck drove on anyway

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"Drove on"....makes it sound like it fled the scene...not so...apparently stopped after passing over the bridge, realizing it was collapsing behind him. He is fully cooperating with the investigation:

 

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Report-I-5-bridge-collapses-over-Skagit-River-cars-in-water-208758631.html

 

The truck made it off the bridge and the driver remained at the scene and cooperated with investigators. Two other vehicles went into the water about 25 feet below as the structure crumbled. The three people were rescued and were recovering Friday.

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I read the truck had a pilot car that hit the bridge with the feelers - and the truck drove on anyway

Yup. The TV outlets all broke in last night within about 15 minutes of incident. They did the same BS speculation about the cause as what happened most anywhere these days (Boston Marathon being the worst) At one point some dipshit newsy said that a man wearing a long rope and hat and toting a prayer rug was seen next to the bridge. Oh boy, terrorism! Stupid shitheads piss me off.

 

Incredibly NO ONE was lost. Two vehicles went down, but all three people OK. One guy is seen sitting on the roof of his car waiting to get off.

 

130523-bridge-fall-11p.photoblog600.jpg

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323475304578502050460595708.html

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I drove across the bridge twice yesterday. It was declared "functionally obsolete" in 2000 and 2010. It was a POS bridge, and then an oversize truck load hit it.

 

Just when you think that you can trust essential parts of our world... tick, tick, tick.

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Just when you think that you can trusst essential parts of our world.

Fixed

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My FIL is a major steel fabricator in Western WA, and has already been contacted by the WA DOT to reserve time.

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Someone needs to drag Boomer back out of retirement so the rebuild gets done proper and quickly!

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Amazing that nobody died. This easily could have been 10-15 cars and and a dozen fatalities. Truly miraculous.

 

I would like to know why WaDOT issued a permit for a load 15'9" with a bridge that has a minimum clearance (on the sides) of 14'6"!!!

 

It seems that shipping by rail or barge is the better choice here. I frequently follow Oversized loads across tha bridge and always drop back to make sure they are going to clear it. I think now (or when they fix it)I will be dropping back a bit further.

 

WL

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Amazing that nobody died. This easily could have been 10-15 cars and and a dozen fatalities. Truly miraculous.

 

I would like to know why WaDOT issued a permit for a load 15'9" with a bridge that has a minimum clearance (on the sides) of 14'6"!!!

 

It seems that shipping by rail or barge is the better choice here. I frequently follow Oversized loads across tha bridge and always drop back to make sure they are going to clear it. I think now (or when they fix it)I will be dropping back a bit further.

 

WL

 

 

they can't give you the height at every point

 

the signs read the actual height where the sign is

 

there are memos where the signs have to go

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Here are more details:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2013/05/26/bc-oversized-truck-bridge-collapse.html

 

Deborah Hersman, chair of the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), said 41-year-old William Scott was granted a permit for his oversize load — a case shed for a drilling rig — which listed the cargo as 4.85 metres in height.

Scott told officials he measured his load multiple times along his route and was following a pilot truck whose driver was responsible for warning him, through a two-way radio, of any problems the oversized trailer might encounter.

"The purpose of having a pilot car to travel ahead of the tractor trailer with this vertical clearance issue is to ensure the tractor trailer can pass safely," Hersman said on Saturday.

mi-bc-130526-ntsb-hersman.jpgDeborah Hersman, chair of the National Transportation Safety Board said her team will spend about a week inspecting the I-5 bridge. (CBC)

But Scott told officials the pilot driver never signaled him that crossing the bridge over the Skagit River would be a problem, even though the bridge’s lowest point only had a clearance of 4.45 metres.

There are no signs describing the bridge’s vertical clearance, as signage is not required in Washington State unless the bridge has a clearance less than 4.39 metres.

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The bridge was solid. Quit pitching about infrastructure. An oversized load hit part of the structure that caused the collapse according to reports. The truck driver realized his load sagged something and stopped on the otherside Why does every incident have to be blamed on govt or spending.

Are you loony? The bridge was rated 51 out of a scale of 100 by state engineers

 

I have schooled you AGAIN!.

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A possible way to make a bridge like that Canadian hose-head trucker-proof would be to make the chords much, much heavier than the cross-bracing, so a cross-brace or two would shear away before pulling the chords out of column.

 

Just a thought...

 

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Easier to just put signs up warning of max load height clearance!

 

From looking at the bridge, I do find it an odd design...with the relatively low overhead supporting structure.

anyone know if the pilot truck was part of the driver's company or is that a state-issued situation?

 

BTW, the lad seen sitting on the car rooftop....turns out to be a Canadian student from Vancouver.

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nyone know if the pilot truck was part of the driver's company or is that a state-issued situation?

 

Pilot vehicle was a WA company and supposedly had a stantion on the right front bumper. Bunch of info on the NTSB twitter feed:

https://twitter.com/ntsb

including that the bridge had been hit before; suspicions that load may have shifted/truck bouncing

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Despite the underhanded attack by Canada. The USofA still manages almost a complete sweep of the podium positions at Swiftsure (Driftsure)!!! Apparently, all our sailors sailed there!! lol

 

WL

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The bridge was solid. Quit pitching about infrastructure. An oversized load hit part of the structure that caused the collapse according to reports. The truck driver realized his load sagged something and stopped on the otherside Why does every incident have to be blamed on govt or spending.

Are you loony? The bridge was rated 51 out of a scale of 100 by state engineers

 

I have schooled you AGAIN!.

the bridge was not on the structurally deficient list. on the news it was reported the bridge had a recent inspection and passed. i believe the inspection was last fall.

 

 

to school someone one must first go to school.

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Bolding mine.

 

http://www.king5.com/news/local/Pilot-driver-calls-bridge-collapse-preventable--209110971.html

 

An Ephrata pilot car driver, who was called to help escort the same truck that brought down the Skagit River bridge last Thursday, calls the incident “preventable.”


Herb Reynolds, a veteran pilot driver, said Monday he was asked to help guide the Mullen Trucking rig over Snoqualmie Pass. Medical issues kept him off the job, but he questions why the truck driver kept going over the crossing despite height concerns.

Pilot car drivers across Washington told KING 5 the bridge collapse is perplexing and concerning. Investigators with the National Traffic Safety Board said Sunday they were still trying to interview the woman who was piloting the doomed truck along Interstate 5 from Canada.

“We’ve gotten phone calls from all over the country with drivers we work with wanting to know what is going on,” pilot driver Al Jensen said. “If the pilot car hit the bridge, why did the truck driver keep going?”

According to witnesses, a high-pole above the pilot car struck the bridge’s west facing edge. 42-year-old truck driver William Scott was behind the wheel of the Mullen Trucking semi and told investigators he was blocked from moving to the safer left lane by another tractor-trailer.

Pilot car drivers are required to be licensed. According to the Washington State Department of Transportation, the test takes one day and involves a fifty-question, open book test.

Washington is also one of the few states that does not give truck drivers routes through the state, instead relying on drivers to work out their own path. Oregon, for instance, gives truckers a mandatory path to follow.

Routes are provided by WSDOT if requested.

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Despite the underhanded attack by Canada. ,,,

 

 

I think they are still pissed off about the Great Maple Syrup Caper

 

 

, shoulda just driven to Sacramento and simply stolen a basketball team to hold for Ransom.

 

 

, prolly have their syrup back in 24 hours

 

eh?

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..............................., shoulda just driven to Sacramento and simply stolen a basketball team to hold for Ransom.

 

......that was the plan but they hit the bridge :mellow:

 

 

.........I guess I'll be seeing the scene tomorrow

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