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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

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smackdaddy

Help turn us into real sailors...

30 posts in this topic

I posted on the Prayers thread about our new yacht. I thought I'd move it here - because I'm going to have a crap-ton of questions.


2DSC00752_zps8fe7e6a1.jpg





This is a big step up from our previous Catalina 27. Our goal is to take this baby all over the Gulf and down to the islands in the next 3-5 years. We also want to do some casual off-shore racing...the races I've crewed on over the past 3 years, but this time in OUR boat.


But the boys and I have SO much to learn about all the systems on this thing (and many other things). Seriously.


Can you guys throw us a bone when we get utterly confused? We definitely will need and appreciate the advice.

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No. It's a Hunter, you're obviously without a clue, and you should have stayed with your Mac26 wannabe shitbox.

 

 

Now that we have that out of the way, yes we can help with the confusion. That's our specialty here at the WLYDO.

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Way to go smack!!!!

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Goodness gravy, those salt shakers are winches? First, you need a dodger. I suggest a stout one with outside and aft bars and use Macrolon AR for Windows. Second, below decks hydraulic ap straight to the quadrant. Big enough to handle the beast during the worst of it... No wimpy belt driven wheel crap things. Chain, lots of it and a big ass windlass. A backstay... Oh, nevermind... An extra alternator on the engine and a bigger bank. Solar and wind gen would be nice.

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Smack,

 

The one thing I can think of, is that line loads are going to be exponentially higher on that boat. I do wonder about the size of the primary winches, but maybe I don't know what I'm talking about on that part.

 

You have ambitious sailing plans. Keep those boys away from the X-box and at the gym so that they have the strength and stamina to grind in those big sails.

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My first suggestion for the cockpit is line tail bags. Reduces the tangles and coils of line underfoot.

 

I happen to like the H40's mainsheet arrangement on the traveler, this boat has a big main and it is rewarding to sail it like a dinghy, but many cruising sailors dislike it because they'd rather the mainsheet dead-ended on the cabin top or the aft coaming where it is out of the way (and can be ignored). Sheet loads on this boat are a lot less than most 40-footers, but it would be nice to have bigger winches... my guess is that they would be difficult to fit because of the cockpit moldings. Bigger cleats and bigger winches are always better.

 

Another improvement my friend made to his; he sawed the foredeck open and made a large anchor locker with a two-part lid, and the windlass mounted on the aft bulkhead of the locker below deck level. It worked very well although it was a much bigger project than either of us envisioned when he started. It involved adding some new structural glass along most of the V-berth.

 

But the main thing I suggest: make sure you know what each line is, and where all the seacocks are, and sail it as much as you can. Worry about improvements after you get a chance to know the boat as it is, and what -you- think you'd like better. And think about sail inventory.

 

FB- Doug

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...Chain, lots of it and a big ass windlass.

 

Careful though. The front might fall off if you tug on it too hard.

 

...A backstay... Oh, nevermind... ...

 

You want him to pull the back off too???

 

But if Hunters were capable of carrying backstays, it should be split so as not to spoil the walk-through.

 

15DSC00780_zps71bc4252.jpg

 

 

Smackdaddy, it will be more or less like your old boat, except more stuff will break and it will cost more to fix it. You'll manage. Have fun! Let me know when you're in this part of the Gulf. I know all the best places to run aground.

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I posted on the Prayers thread about our new yacht. I thought I'd move it here - because I'm going to have a crap-ton of questions.
This is a big step up from our previous Catalina 27. Our goal is to take this baby all over the Gulf and down to the islands in the next 3-5 years. We also want to do some casual off-shore racing...the races I've crewed on over the past 3 years, but this time in OUR boat.
But the boys and I have SO much to learn about all the systems on this thing (and many other things). Seriously.
Can you guys throw us a bone when we get utterly confused? We definitely will need and appreciate the advice.

 

Congrats on the new boat. I made a 13' leap too, you will survive!

 

I made the move from a 15,000lb Beneteau 40.7 with a 30HP engine and three little group 27 batteries directly to the HR 53 with more lead in the keel (19,800 lbs) than the last boat weighed, a monstrous 145HP turbo diesel AND a 6Kw generator - the new boat scared the living crap out of me when I first bought it. Especially since changing an impeller was about the limit of my engine knowledge.

 

It just takes time, you are doing it the right way getting the boat a year+ before you need to rely on it. Tom's right though, it's similar, just bigger and with more complicated things to break. Better to learn how as much works up front before it inevitably breaks on you...but time in the boat will tell.

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Having sailed one a few times, you'll do fine. That boat handles relatively well under power. Cockpit can feel a bit precarious as it's shallow due to the master cabin below. Take your time. The biggest problem I see folks having in the move to a larger boat is forgetting about mass and momentum. It's pretty common for folks to fend off docks and the like in a 27' boat by placing their body between the boat and something hard. Double the weight and add 13 feet and that's asking for serious injury. Learn how to use spring lines and fenders. Drive the point home to the boys that they never, ever put themselves between the boat and the dock. GRP can be fixed. Mind the boom, don't get fingers caught up in a winch, etc. Basically, all of teh safety tips that are standard are even more important as the loads go up. The "about 30 to about 40" is probably the most common move up in size for all sailors. It will feel like an aircraft carrier for a couple of months and then you'll stop noticing.

 

Winches are adequate. Like most production boats, you might want a size larger but they are generally sized for the job

 

Put in a linear AP if one is not already installed. Wheel pilots are too wimpy.

 

Good looking dodger is hard to do because of the shallow cockpit and high companionway sill.

 

Legend 40 was one of the last Hunter designs before the B&R rigs, melted plastic styling, etc and one of their better handling boats. Quality of build was average for production boats of the time. Unless the PO went overboard with the option list, systems should be fairly basic.

 

As previously discussed, stay after deck penetrations to keep the core dry, Use quality hardware when you replace something and you'll have a decent coastal boat.

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Having sailed one a few times, you'll do fine. That boat handles relatively well under power. Cockpit can feel a bit precarious as it's shallow due to the master cabin below. Take your time. The biggest problem I see folks having in the move to a larger boat is forgetting about mass and momentum. It's pretty common for folks to fend off docks and the like in a 27' boat by placing their body between the boat and something hard. Double the weight and add 13 feet and that's asking for serious injury. Learn how to use spring lines and fenders. Drive the point home to the boys that they never, ever put themselves between the boat and the dock. GRP can be fixed. Mind the boom, don't get fingers caught up in a winch, etc. Basically, all of teh safety tips that are standard are even more important as the loads go up. The "about 30 to about 40" is probably the most common move up in size for all sailors. It will feel like an aircraft carrier for a couple of months and then you'll stop noticing.

 

He is absolutely spot on with this one. Do not underestimate how much more momentum you have, learn to let the boat do the work you were used to doing on the 27. Definitely treat all human fenders with a sharp blow to the nose with a rolled up newspaper, you can crush hands and feet with an efficiency you never enjoyed before.

 

I was pretty good handling the old boat by myself, every Wednesday I'd bring her into a slip by myself to get ready for race nights and was used to approaching the dock and getting her tied up without help. New boat...same concept, a LOT more momentum. Stepping off the boat and grabbing a line and tying it on and running to another line & cleat...things get pear shaped faster and require a lot more grunting and sweating to reign the boat back to the dock. So I had to learn to be much better about making sure the boat was at a pretty much dead stop when I stepped off, and I had to learn that discretion was the better part of valor when it came to breezes that pushed the boat away from the dock when I was landing and pay closer attention to any breeze that wasn't close to the beam. It was manageable, but it took a bit of practice to get used to bringing the new boat into the dock and back out to the mooring by myself (more stuff to trip over on the way to the bow to grab the mooring, too...).

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You only get help here if we can heap abuse on you simultaneously. :)

 

The comments about the winches are spot on in my experience. Hunter winches are adequate but only just. I'd want primaries two sizes larger if the boat was a keeper and the crew were young boys.

 

Don't worry about the size - sailing bigger boats is not different, it's just more work and expense. In some ways they're easier since they don't bounce around so much.

 

The comments about momentum and human fenders are spot on - check out Killarney's thread about his hand on Sail Net.

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You only get help here if we can heap abuse on you simultaneously. :)

 

The comments about the winches are spot on in my experience. Hunter winches are adequate but only just. I'd want primaries two sizes larger if the boat was a keeper and the crew were young boys.

 

Don't worry about the size - sailing bigger boats is not different, it's just more work and expense. In some ways they're easier since they don't bounce around so much.

 

The comments about momentum and human fenders are spot on - check out Killarney's thread about his hand on Sail Net.

 

 

I would also rate the winches on my Hunter 28 as 'adequate.' I will say that since she is a shoal draft and tender boat, the winches are adequate for the amount of sail needed to heel her to 30 degrees or so. Since higher angles of heel aren't productive, you are flying too much sail when you are having trouble grinding. But since, like everyone else, I have an overlapping jib on a furler, it sometimes happens. So, yeah, Hunter skimps, but they never said it was a racing boat either.

 

I read all the comments on a Hunter owner web site. The most consistent complaint was about the hoses used for the head. IMHO, Hunter hurt their reputation a lot saving $100 or so per boat.

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Someone earlier made a good point about just going out and using the boat before you dive into fixing it up - I think this is great advice. I've done that with my last two boats and it has worked out well. Obviously there are some upgrades that you know need to be done - my first year with Starry Night I replaced nearly all the running rigging because it was 27 years old. No huge decisions to be made there, just do it! I also had the engine thoroughly checked out so that there wouldn't be any preventable surprises there. I found that with using the boat my thoughts and priorities of what I needed changed over time - at first I didn't think much about an autopilot but after a while I realized I'd rather have one of those than say, a dodger, in my case.

 

Also, by not going crazy right off the bat I saved myself some grief when my situation changed - REALLY glad now I didn't fork over $3500 for a canvas winter cover (even though shrink wrap was a misery) because that would have been a huge waste now that the boat is in Florida. And with only 18 SS30s built I would have had trouble selling it. You just don't know what's going to happen, so make a list of priorities, compare that with your budget, use the boat, and keep checking things off the list, but re-evaluate it once in a while.

 

I haven't made a 13' jump in size but I've done 7' twice (does that count??). Went from a 16', 1500 lb doughdish (with no engine) to a 23', 3300 lb Cape Cod Marlin (still no engine) to a 30', 10,000 lb boat with an inboard, a wheel, and a full (but basic) plumbing and electrical system. Yeah, I was a little intimidated by the SS30 at first - still am with the systems, and I'm learning the dock maneuvers. Sailing is a piece of cake, by getting out and sailing you get confidence with the boat to tackle those more delicate maneuvers. Plus I'm finding that at least at my marina, there always seem to be plenty of folks around willing to lend a hand - I got totally sideways trying to get out of my slip last week and two of my dock neighbors came over and helped me warp out in a way I couldn't have done alone. One was bummed he missed me coming back in because he wanted to help. Of all the groups of people I've been involved with in different hobbies, sailors are by far the best bunch.

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Goodness gravy, those salt shakers are winches? First, you need a

 

dodger (soon)

 

hydraulic ap straight to the quadrant. Big enough to handle the beast during the worst of it... No wimpy belt driven wheel crap things. (check)

 

Chain, lots of it (soon)

 

and a big ass windlass (soonish)

 

A backstay (check)

 

An extra [high output] alternator on the engine (check)

 

and a bigger bank. (soon)

 

Solar and wind gen would be nice. (soon)

 

Thanks for the list dude.

 

 

Smack,

The one thing I can think of, is that line loads are going to be exponentially higher on that boat. I do wonder about the size of the primary winches, but maybe I don't know what I'm talking about on that part.

You have ambitious sailing plans. Keep those boys away from the X-box and at the gym so that they have the strength and stamina to grind in those big sails.

I'll see how the winches go. If I need to and can bump them up, I will.

 

My first suggestion for the cockpit is line tail bags. Reduces the tangles and coils of line underfoot.

I happen to like the H40's mainsheet arrangement on the traveler, this boat has a big main and it is rewarding to sail it like a dinghy, but many cruising sailors dislike it because they'd rather the mainsheet dead-ended on the cabin top or the aft coaming where it is out of the way (and can be ignored). Sheet loads on this boat are a lot less than most 40-footers, but it would be nice to have bigger winches... my guess is that they would be difficult to fit because of the cockpit moldings. Bigger cleats and bigger winches are always better.

Another improvement my friend made to his; he sawed the foredeck open and made a large anchor locker with a two-part lid, and the windlass mounted on the aft bulkhead of the locker below deck level. It worked very well although it was a much bigger project than either of us envisioned when he started. It involved adding some new structural glass along most of the V-berth.

But the main thing I suggest: make sure you know what each line is, and where all the seacocks are, and sail it as much as you can. Worry about improvements after you get a chance to know the boat as it is, and what -you- think you'd like better. And think about sail inventory.

FB- Doug

 

 

I've got the tailing bags. And I've heard about the anchor locker/windlass mod. I'll see how things work.

 

AND I TOTALLY AGREE THAT I SHOULD JUST SAIL THE HELL OUT OF HER FIRST!! There will be plenty of time for work.

 

 

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The biggest problem I see folks having in the move to a larger boat is forgetting about mass and momentum. It's pretty common for folks to fend off docks and the like in a 27' boat by placing their body between the boat and something hard. Double the weight and add 13 feet and that's asking for serious injury. Learn how to use spring lines and fenders. Drive the point home to the boys that they never, ever put themselves between the boat and the dock. GRP can be fixed.

 

Great feedback IB. Thanks.

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AND I TOTALLY AGREE THAT I SHOULD JUST SAIL THE HELL OUT OF HER FIRST!! There will be plenty of time for work.

 

That was actually one of the best pieces of advice I got from a sailmaker when I tried to buy sails for the C&C 37 the first year I got it. He told me "No, I don't want to sell you sails now. Go sail the boat for a season, make sure you like the boat and and you know what you want to do with it next year. Then we'll talk."

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Smack...we chartered a Ben 40 in Antigua...it felt HUGE, for about 30 seconds, then it seemed much the same as our boat, but ours is prettier.

 

BJ...I made that mistake, but only because the sails that came with GK looked like they were seldom used, and they were not as the boat powered everywhere...first race I destroyed the jib...so I rushed out and bought a new 155%, but I got everything wrong!! I ended up with the most useless sail Sobstad ever produced...and i got exactly what I requested.

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Smack...we chartered a Ben 40 in Antigua...it felt HUGE, for about 30 seconds, then it seemed much the same as our boat, but ours is prettier.

 

BJ...I made that mistake, but only because the sails that came with GK looked like they were seldom used, and they were not as the boat powered everywhere...first race I destroyed the jib...so I rushed out and bought a new 155%, but I got everything wrong!! I ended up with the most useless sail Sobstad ever produced...and i got exactly what I requested.

 

There's a reason I stuck with that Quantum loft for so long, even after the guy that gave me that sage advice (and wouldn't sell me a sail) left...

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BJ

 

I ended up with a 155% for light air, made from heavy fabric for durability and a heavy UV strip to protect the investment...and no foam luff to keep weight down, and to make sure it had the all the shape of a bag of dog crap when reefed in.

 

Lesson learned...seek advice and listen when it's given.

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I forgot the Racor filter and a priming pump or squeeze bulb. The ones I have been on have tiny racor filters and no easy way to prime and are mounted low so it is nearly impossible. The big boy Racor's are quick and easy, and if you can spring for two of them, all the better...

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I forgot the Racor filter and a priming pump or squeeze bulb. The ones I have been on have tiny racor filters and no easy way to prime and are mounted low so it is nearly impossible. The big boy Racor's are quick and easy, and if you can spring for two of them, all the better...

 

Cool. I'll get pics of what's there and let you know.

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I forgot the Racor filter and a priming pump or squeeze bulb. The ones I have been on have tiny racor filters and no easy way to prime and are mounted low so it is nearly impossible. The big boy Racor's are quick and easy, and if you can spring for two of them, all the better...

 

^ wisdom ^

 

A filter that is clean & easy to change will save you a lot of problems. Stock installations are always a PITA, if I remember correctly my friends H40 has great engine access.

 

FB- Doug

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Congrats Smacks! My only word of caution is; your boys are fairly young, do some fun short trips and let everyone grow into the boat. Cranking the #1 in a breeze will be a ball buster for the boys till they get a bit older, anchoring without a powered windlass will take the piss out of them. Take your time learning how the boat handles and how to sail her.

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Thanks Joli. Totally agree. We're going to take it slow and steady in the Bay for the next several months and really shake her (and us) down before going outside.

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Thanks Joli. Totally agree. We're going to take it slow and steady in the Bay for the next several months and really shake her (and us) down before going outside.

Buy me a ticket and a few drinks, and in a week you'll be a full fledged cruiser. It's not as hard as driving a C27...

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I forgot the Racor filter and a priming pump or squeeze bulb. The ones I have been on have tiny racor filters and no easy way to prime and are mounted low so it is nearly impossible. The big boy Racor's are quick and easy, and if you can spring for two of them, all the better...

 

^ wisdom ^

 

A filter that is clean & easy to change will save you a lot of problems. Stock installations are always a PITA, if I remember correctly my friends H40 has great engine access.

 

FB- Doug

 

Just recently became aware of a product that I would order three of in a heartbeat if I could get it shipped to Grenada for less than the doo-dad costs.

 

Basically it's a replacement for the T-handle screw-top on your Racor filter, and it includes gauge to read vacuum pressure in the filter. So you can have a quick look at it and see roughly how clogged your filter is.

 

300782_l.jpg

 

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|311|314195|314585|2273938&id=1771858/estore/product_info.php?products_id=86

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Thanks Joli. Totally agree. We're going to take it slow and steady in the Bay for the next several months and really shake her (and us) down before going outside.

Buy me a ticket and a few drinks, and in a week you'll be a full fledged cruiser. It's not as hard as driving a C27...

 

definitely. What with that big steering wheel and all. It's like driving a car! And everyone can drive a car ;)

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Thanks Joli. Totally agree. We're going to take it slow and steady in the Bay for the next several months and really shake her (and us) down before going outside.

Buy me a ticket and a few drinks, and in a week you'll be a full fledged cruiser. It's not as hard as driving a C27...

definitely. What with that big steering wheel and all. It's like driving a car! And everyone can drive a car ;)

You need a learners permit for a car. Bigger is actually easier...

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