• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

billy backstay

Friends don't let friends sail PHRF??

24 posts in this topic

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!! .....

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air.... (sigh)... : - (

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent story, would read again.

I am saving it to my hard drive, so I can print and then laminate it so that I can read it to my future grandchildren.

 

Thanks OP,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I loved PHRF.

 

Horses for courses and mine ruled!

 

Usually.

 

Just sayin'................. :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like.

 

There were these races when we went upwind in 20+ and we rounded in front of boats that cost 4x what the owner had into the boat... it was pretty awesome.

 

And then we got to go downwind... and drink beer... and eat good food :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad you had fun Billy.

 

There's one design, and then there's sailing the boat that's perfect for you. I did Etchells because it fit both, and moved on when it didn't. After only 2 sails, I think we confirmed the latter with the Soverel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Race a J/24 in PHRF on Wednesday nights, great fun and everyone has a beer in hand from start to finish.

 

thursdays One design and put our racing hats on. Still good fun, but competitive fun.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Race a J/24 in PHRF on Wednesday nights, great fun and everyone has a beer in hand from start to finish.

 

thursdays One design and put our racing hats on. Still good fun, but competitive fun.

 

 

Sorry, but I draw the llne at J-24's and 105's! Guy has to have some self respect! LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might more accurately be "Friends don't let friends take PHRF racing seriously", but some messages should not be stripped of their shock and awe...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless PHRF is the only venue available for your boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It might more accurately be "Friends don't let friends take PHRF racing seriously", but some messages should not be stripped of their shock and awe...

 

 

 

That does make more sense, but I bet you that most of the PERF fleet leaving Block Island today take it pretty seriously!! : - )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If PHRF is the law of the land and you suck at it then by all means bitch about how mutch you suck at it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes PHRF sucks on the rating side but for most of us, it is the only game in town. Driving an Olson 30 in Florida I love it when we beat faster boats to the marks. It is the sailors, not the rating!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The good thing about PHRF is that you can bring the boat that

 

-is a good practical daysailer/weekender for your family

-is for sale cheap by your neighbor

-is the perfect drinking platform for you & your pals

-is the one you inherited

 

The bad thing about PHRF is that some people want it to be an Olympic event

 

Nobody is forcing anyone else to race PHRF. Wanna take the competition seriously? Go get a Laser, or a Lightning, and STFU

 

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One design is not available to all of us. I'm actually amazed that PHRF is as close to fair as it is. And if you may be doing some PHRF racing, do some research before you buy your boat so you won't have to bitch about your rating and how unfair it all is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One design is not available to all of us. I'm actually amazed that PHRF is as close to fair as it is. And if you may be doing some PHRF racing, do some research before you buy your boat so you won't have to bitch about your rating and how unfair it all is.

 

 

Very well said!! I'm not really bitching, and yes PHRF is a lot of fun, and maybe even better than one design, where there are often a few, I call them, "factory teams' with newer sails, better boats, etc; versus the "privateers". It's just sometimes a bit frustrating at times, like the Wednesday night a couple months back where the 35 footer I was trimming on got the gun and we were sure we saved our time on the Evelyn 32 that usually prevails, and is very well sailed. On corected, we lost first place by one second. It's all good, just sayin' a bit frustrating at times...

 

Sail fast, live slow!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One design is not available to all of us. ... ...

 

No, one design -IS- available for anybody who wants it.

 

You might have to drive further than you'd like, or you may have to sail a boat you wouldn't pick otherwise, but one-design racing is definitely on the list of options. The biggest problem with one-design racing is that the boats mostly suck and there's not as wide a margin for convincing yourself that you're really a brilliant sailor with magnificent skills, unfairly handicapped into oblivion by the Diana Moon Glampers of the PHRF Committee

 

 

... ... I'm actually amazed that PHRF is as close to fair as it is. And if you may be doing some PHRF racing, do some research before you buy your boat so you won't have to bitch about your rating and how unfair it all is.

 

Agreed. PHRF can be a lot of fun if you're not wallowing in sour grapes. Pick a boat you can afford, that's enjoyable, and bring it!

 

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!! .....

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air.... (sigh)... : - (

 

As the person who first coined that saying ( look it up if you want), let me say that it was only intended to insult those phrfers who try to act like it's the highest level of sailing. For people that have a big boat and just want to go out and race and phrf is the only way to do it, good on you. Go out, have fun, sail with and against your buds. Try to sail as hard and as well as you can. That is a good thing.

 

What is not a good thing are the phrf people who want to complain about ratings ( theirs and everyone else's ) , complain about the race committee, their crew, sailmaker, etc, etc. If they win it's because they are such great sailors , if they lose it's because of the ratings ( or RC, or crew or whatever ). If you want to be serious about racing and seeing how good you are, you have to race in a good one design class. You can still have fun with phrf, don't make sure it's about the fun. If you start crowing about your phrf wins, or complaining about your ratings, then get a OD and come out and see how great you are.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we need a new rating rule to replace PHRF. something scientific with lots of equations and shit. I'm sure that would fix it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!! .....

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air.... (sigh)... : - (

 

As the person who first coined that saying ( look it up if you want), let me say that it was only intended to insult those phrfers who try to act like it's the highest level of sailing. For people that have a big boat and just want to go out and race and phrf is the only way to do it, good on you. Go out, have fun, sail with and against your buds. Try to sail as hard and as well as you can. That is a good thing.

 

What is not a good thing are the phrf people who want to complain about ratings ( theirs and everyone else's ) , complain about the race committee, their crew, sailmaker, etc, etc. If they win it's because they are such great sailors , if they lose it's because of the ratings ( or RC, or crew or whatever ). If you want to be serious about racing and seeing how good you are, you have to race in a good one design class. You can still have fun with phrf, don't make sure it's about the fun. If you start crowing about your phrf wins, or complaining about your ratings, then get a OD and come out and see how great you are.

+1

 

Racing OD is also a great way to learn how to tune a boat properly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The good thing about PHRF is that you can bring the boat that

 

-is a good practical daysailer/weekender for your family [check]

-is for sale cheap by your neighbor [check]

-is the perfect drinking platform for you & your pals [double check]

-is the one you inherited [checkmate!]

 

The bad thing about PHRF is that some people want it to be an Olympic event

 

Nobody is forcing anyone else to race PHRF. Wanna take the competition seriously? Go get a Laser, or a Lightning, and STFU

 

FB- Doug

 

 

Sailed my avitar, T10, in Cleve since the early 80's, was my dad's boat then, now mine...

Awesome 1D fleet all around 20+ boats at the NA's religiously.. great raft ups when the wind dies too! :rolleyes:

 

On the occasional phrf outings, stupid drunk, we win races despite ourselves...

 

We love phrf... (ssshhh, don't say anything to phrf LE.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

One of my favorite sayings, but last night in light air on a mates new-old, Soverel 27 we were friggin' slaying much bigger boats, that owe us heaps of time.!!! .....

 

 

 

Until 3 guns cancelled for lack of air.... (sigh)... : - (

 

As the person who first coined that saying ( look it up if you want), let me say that it was only intended to insult those phrfers who try to act like it's the highest level of sailing. For people that have a big boat and just want to go out and race and phrf is the only way to do it, good on you. Go out, have fun, sail with and against your buds. Try to sail as hard and as well as you can. That is a good thing.

 

What is not a good thing are the phrf people who want to complain about ratings ( theirs and everyone else's ) , complain about the race committee, their crew, sailmaker, etc, etc. If they win it's because they are such great sailors , if they lose it's because of the ratings ( or RC, or crew or whatever ). If you want to be serious about racing and seeing how good you are, you have to race in a good one design class. You can still have fun with phrf, don't make sure it's about the fun. If you start crowing about your phrf wins, or complaining about your ratings, then get a OD and come out and see how great you are.

 

 

It's a great post. That sums it up exactly. Exactly as you say, PHRF was designed for folks who have big boats and want to do a little fun racing. Like, I don't know, Figawi or something. Or, when you're done with your OD stuff, PHRF is something fun to take the wife or girlfriend out, bring lots of great snacks and cocktails and have a nice day of it and not get upset with anyone.

 

It's the macho nut jobs that take PHRF way too seriously who have killed it. The blokes find an old one-off or few-off boat, gut it down to bare fiberglass, and have no sense of humor at all going out there kicking much ass and taking down names, then walking around the clubhouse like they're Dennis Connor.

 

It's bad up here, but I used to race some years back in the WLIS/NYC/NJ area, and I have never seen it treated as hardcore as that. The J29 guys were the worst in terms of excessive machismo despite good but often not great racing skills. There used to be -- probably still is -- a yellow redneck-ish boat, not a J29 but something a little smaller I think, on Raritan Bay that goes undefeated in its class of 3-4 boats season after season with no sense of humor whatsoever and they are some of the biggest self-centered assholes I ever recall meeting on the water, and see no problem using sails from much faster boats. And it's super political - you can whine and fuss and get your rating changed for no good reason ... for God's sake, there's one Olson 30 down there that is rated 108, whereas the guys on the left coast do fine with 99. That's 3-4 boat lengths a mile, for free -- crazy talk.

 

It's a dreary thing. Good Mother of God, most of these rubes would get absolutely creamed in a halfway serious OD fleet.

 

The best revenge is a good life. Race in some OD regattas and you'll experience the heart of sailboat racing, regardless of how you finish. You'll have an absolute blast. I think you'll find that the sportsmanship is on a different plane altogeher. As an added benefit, you'll develop much crisper sailing habits, then find that you can clean up in most PHRF regattas with one hand tied behind your back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like I said, not really complainging. Since our local OD fleet is gettig sketchy, like Milfords, maybe PHRF is all that is left to weekend warriors..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

... ...

And it's super political - you can whine and fuss and get your rating changed for no good reason ... for God's sake, there's one Olson 30 down there that is rated 108, whereas the guys on the left coast do fine with 99. That's 3-4 boat lengths a mile, for free -- crazy talk....

... ...

 

Remember it's all relative. Weather & water is different in different places, just ferzample the Olson fares poorly in chop (although I think the West Coast has plenty of choppy venues). But it matters less what number a boat's rating is in different venues, as it's rating relative to other given boats.

 

For example, I have a Santana 23 which I don't sail enough. However there were a fair number of those boats made, there is a halfway decent tuning guide, it's rated in a wide number of regions; generally either just a little faster than a J-24 or just a little slower. The number varies from the low 160s to the high 170s but the J-24 rating also varies similarly.

 

I totally agree that racing OD sharpens up skills... I'd go a step further and say that sailing small tippy boats sharpens up boat-handling and prioritizing in greater degree in shorter time than sailing keelboats. Plus, it's a lot of fun.

 

But then so is racing in PHRF if you do it right.

 

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites