• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

jnavas

Video: New Zealand with Oracle boat 1 and a dash of Artemis, July 2 20

Recommended Posts

Sequential jibes: 04:09 ~ Oracle butts down: 07:00

NOAA Wind: http://goo.gl/nE8Vv ~ Tide: http://goo.gl/pVNe0

MY FULL AC PLAYLIST: http://goo.gl/baA1i

More great work JNavas.

 

Interesting that ETNZ don't seem to be foiling on the reach while Oracle do. Deliberate choice or compromised ETNZ foil design? Does seem more difficult to control foiling pitch during a reach, but it is a critical point of sail given it is what decides who leads at the first mark.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Foyle, clearly you didn't get the memo.

 

Only things that ETNZ does well are important. If OR does something better, it's because the brilliant ETNZ design team decided that it's not important.

 

The Cup match will be consist of a gybing contest to be judged by the posters here on AC Anarchy. All other factors are irrelevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Sequential jibes: 04:09 ~ Oracle butts down: 07:00

NOAA Wind: http://goo.gl/nE8Vv ~ Tide: http://goo.gl/pVNe0

MY FULL AC PLAYLIST: http://goo.gl/baA1i

More great work JNavas.

 

Interesting that ETNZ don't seem to be foiling on the reach while Oracle do. Deliberate choice or compromised ETNZ foil design? Does seem more difficult to control foiling pitch during a reach, but it is a critical point of sail given it is what decides who leads at the first mark.

Interesting observation, have a look at the video of the practice race between LR and ET - ET seem to travel a little lower on the Foil, while LR are higher on the foil but are passed by ET with ease. OR also look a lot quicker when foiling just above the water then when they are in a higher mode on the Foil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

. OR also look a lot quicker when foiling just above the water then when they are in a higher mode on the Foil.

 

when etnz started foiling on the fat foils they foiled around 1 or 2m off the water

 

but as they developed their smaller foils and foil control mechanism they lowered the foiling height to just above the water

 

guess it makes sense that

 

1 - when the foil is only making just enough lift to lift the hull clear, it has the lowest drag AOA

 

2 - now wind limits are being lowered the need to foil above the wave slapping swell is reduced

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Foyle, clearly you didn't get the memo.

 

Only things that ETNZ does well are important. If OR does something better, it's because OR waited till they could steal all the brilliant ETNZ design team ideas decided that it's not important.

 

The Cup match will be consist of a gybing contest to be judged by the posters here on AC Anarchy. All other factors are irrelevant.

 

I wanted to agree totally but felt it needed more

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I barely even watch the NZ gybe videos any more, as they've gotten pretty consistent and you kind of expect them to click right through it. The OR ones tend to seem a bit more interesting as they never look great. Even with the buttslide in that vid, the gybe was still decent speed-to-speed but still a long way to go. I'm still wondering about how much loss there is in a wet gybe vs foiling.

 

If they do give up the testing adjustable rudders, wonder how that will affect their ability to corner and foil? Wonder if AR's boat 2 is as reliant or moreso than OR on adjustable winglet angle?

 

OR still looks quicker, although it's obviously up for debate. Wonder how the paraNoidZ around here will react if the course ends up skewed for a race in the final and there is only 1 gybe on the run?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are all spending a lot of time looking and admiring the downwind performance differences - because they are so obvious and dramatic, but upwind is still something like 60-70% of the race duration, and so that is more likely to be where races are won and lost. We won't know until racing begins who is fastest but as a bookie I would be steering clear of this event because the teams will already have a very clear idea of relative performance, and that info will slowly leak out. We will probably get a much clearer idea when first 1 or 2 syndicates are eliminated and they start to talk more freely.

 

I think it would be foolish to imagine that Oracle won't develop a stable and rule compliant foiling solution in the next 2 months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By seeing this video, TNZ seems to be quite dangerous.This boat might 100 kg too light, its rudders must be assymetrical, and it seems they didn't trimed them just before sailing. Could someone tell them to fix that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I barely even watch the NZ gybe videos any more, as they've gotten pretty consistent and you kind of expect them to click right through it. The OR ones tend to seem a bit more interesting as they never look great. Even with the buttslide in that vid, the gybe was still decent speed-to-speed but still a long way to go. I'm still wondering about how much loss there is in a wet gybe vs foiling.

...

 

My estimate from timing the videos is a minimum of 5-10 seconds lost in a crashing jibe. With a foiling boat going about 50 feet per second, that's a distance loss of 250-500 feet. That's significant, but not necessarily fatal, depending on foiling speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work - thanks.

 

The 45's you captured give a true comparison between a foiler and an 'Achimedean'. We had months (before your time?) of being told how competitive an arse-dragger would be against the 'unproven' full foiling boats from down under.

Do you (or any others) observing the two types of 45's see the non-foiler as competitive around the full SF AC race course?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JNavas, thank you for all your video work which is without exception of professional quality and so much appreciated by those of us not able to be in SF. You have been a life-saver!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites