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      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

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hobie18rich

Foiling Torch/Laser

275 posts in this topic

1095092_353634901434653_1901873596_n.jpg

 

Went foiling today on the first production set of Kirby Sailboat foils( being politically correct) my first time ever Foiling, never thought I would as a 96kg Finn sailor, I foiled first go, learnt a bit and on my second sail after a turn or two on adjustment on the Rudder I was smoking across the bay, a brand new boat, no holes, just a cassette in the case, rudder goes on a current rudder head and is held down the same way as current boats. Pull it all off in one pin and you can go do Kirby/ Laser Worlds in your boat.

Future, it's not to replace current racing, just to let everyone, with old or new boats to get out and try foiling.

Stay tuned as soon to go public, cheers from PSA and the Glide Free team

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The People's Foiler?

 

Kinda looks like...

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wait till DL shows up in 3,2,1........

 

But I like it.

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Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

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now boat comes w a stand

 

double as a teeter-totter :)

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Probably more real than ANYTHING you have ever accomplished regarding sailboats

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

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paging Gouv? Gouv?

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paging Gouv? Gouv?

He's right up there ^^^^ Post #3.

well I am a dumb ass!

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This is real and Chris in Australia was testing this weekend. Hopefully pics and video to come quickly.

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Sorry I doubted you! Looks really good! Does the "wand" retract with the daggerboard? Do you have to deploy the board with the boat on it's side? Congratulations to everybody involved!

PS-how much wind does it take to foil?

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paging Gouv? Gouv?

He's right up there ^^^^ Post #3.

well I am a dumb ass!

me on this page .. I am answering your page...unless it is another page

depends on your settings I guess

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Extruded alloy foils suggests intent to mass produce. Very interesting.

 

Would have been cold on pittwater!

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Sorry I doubted you! Looks really good! Does the "wand" retract with the daggerboard? Do you have to deploy the board with the boat on it's side? Congratulations to everybody involved!

PS-how much wind does it take to foil?

 

I'm working to get more details.

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Time to get a laser!

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From Chris

I had it up with my 96kgs in 10 to 12knts yesterday morning, I am sure with more practice you could get it going a little earlier, if lighter in weight for sure you can, later afternoon session was in 15 to 18 and I was smoking for a Laser....we need to do speed tests, not done that yet, my guess yesterday was close to 20knts..

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Extruded alloy foils suggests intent to mass produce. Very interesting.

 

Would have been cold on pittwater!

 

i would have thought that extruded alloy foils would be too expensive to work with now that the price of aluminum is up a little bit.... or so a certain designer has been trying to convince the class.

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I want to get a clapped out Laser and put in some ports. Strip out all the foam and get it down to weight. Then put this kit on it. F'n blow the lake sailors of VT's minds. Awesome! How much? Sign me up!

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Fantastic idea, best thing to happen to lasers.

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No doubt there is a bulk order of tissues being placed in Florida right now.

 

No sailing though.

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How does the lasers shit sail work with the foils? I would think Dacron main wouldn't be able to hold shape once the apparent wind angle gets so high without seriously stretching it out.

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Extruded alloy foils suggests intent to mass produce. Very interesting.

 

Would have been cold on pittwater!

 

Looks a lot like a modified 29er centreboard with T foil attached.

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How does the lasers shit sail work with the foils? I would think Dacron main wouldn't be able to hold shape once the apparent wind angle gets so high without seriously stretching it out.

 

Shhh. it's actually a commercial ploy to sell more of those 1970s Dacron atrocities.

PSA's cunning plan is that once they get the foils right they're gonna GIVE a set to EVERY Laser owner on the planet and watch ALL their sails shit themselves.

And then? Oh lord how the money rolls in.....

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A while back all the Mothies were claiming it would be impossible to get a laser to foil, because:

A. The the transom wouldn't take the loads

B. the sail would be too full

C. It was too heavy

D. It doesn't have enough righting moment

 

Shows what they know.

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paging Gouv? Gouv?

He's right up there ^^^^ Post #3.

well I am a dumb ass!

 

No ..... anyone who realises that would be

 

a Smart Ass :rolleyes:

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Holly shit. I want one. I'm to fat for a moth at 100kgs but have wanted to give foiling a go (4th dimension in sailing). If this is real, I'm going to start looking for a cheap used junker to get out and fly.

 

If they can make one of these (I still don't know what to call them) fly then there are plenty of other boats I would like to see do it. Can anybody say 505 :)

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Is that the end of the foiling moth at10000000000$

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@chris:

 

Do you have to get on a plane first to get up on the foils or will they render enough lift in displacement mode?

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Getting a Laser to get up on foils isn't inherently that difficult: its just a question of providing enough foil area and enough breeze. What will be revealing is how useful and versatile the boat is. A one trick wonder that will foil from reach to reach crosswind in a biggish breeze may not sustain much interest in the long term. Think Hobie trifoiler. If on the other hand they can produce a boat that's rewarding to race in most conditions: well that will be a notable achievement.

 

It seems to me that the reason the Moth has seen off every challenger so far in the foiling game is that so far nothing else has displayed the sort of versatility the Moth does. A talented sailor can go and race a Moth using the foils in suprisingly little wind, and carry on racing it until its very breezy indeed, and because of the ultra light weight and the packaging rigging and launching isn't as much trouble as you might think.

 

And yes, I have no doubt at all a set of foils could be made that would enable a 505 to get up on the foils and blast about on a beam reach. But getting a set of foils that would enable a foil borne 505 to consistently win series against a standard one - well, that might be a different matter.

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Probably more real than ANYTHING you have ever accomplished regarding sailboats

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

Now you are going to get on Dougie's hate list!!!

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for the n'th time

 

 

Probably more real than ANYTHING you have ever accomplished regarding sailboats

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

Now you are going to get on Dougie's hate list!!!

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Might be the best thing for the Laser... and the Moth....

 

I'd buy the rig for the laser, but suspect that over time the daggerboard trunk and transom would fail or soften from carrying the load.

 

After the first line of foiling, I'd probably want more -- with the addiction leading straight to the hard drugs -- the Moth.

 

Mothies oughta support this one.

 

P

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603344_10151826973189636_1869015847_n.jp

 

1146679_10151826974444636_309305022_n.jp

 

1097815_10151826975919636_1443782359_o.j

Looks great, how much does it cost for the kit?

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Can we adapt these to Emilys Sabot?

How cool would that be? the first junior foiler.

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Getting a Laser to get up on foils isn't inherently that difficult: its just a question of providing enough foil area and enough breeze. What will be revealing is how useful and versatile the boat is. A one trick wonder that will foil from reach to reach crosswind in a biggish breeze may not sustain much interest in the long term. Think Hobie trifoiler. If on the other hand they can produce a boat that's rewarding to race in most conditions: well that will be a notable achievement.

 

It seems to me that the reason the Moth has seen off every challenger so far in the foiling game is that so far nothing else has displayed the sort of versatility the Moth does. A talented sailor can go and race a Moth using the foils in suprisingly little wind, and carry on racing it until its very breezy indeed, and because of the ultra light weight and the packaging rigging and launching isn't as much trouble as you might think.

 

And yes, I have no doubt at all a set of foils could be made that would enable a 505 to get up on the foils and blast about on a beam reach. But getting a set of foils that would enable a foil borne 505 to consistently win series against a standard one - well, that might be a different matter.

 

Seems you are focused on the racing aspects of this.

 

There are plenty of us that would love to just buy these parts, stick them on a Laser, and go have fun. That part of the market is far bigger than the standard of racing we have today. A couple of hours of reaching around on foils for a couple of grand is pretty serious fun per dollar.

 

As it is currently, I am not a candidate to buy a Laser, for any purpose. I have other boats that fill my needs. But with the advent of this simple thing, I could easily see buying a decent used Laser, sticking these foils on, and giving my kids the thrill of foiling, while also having another boat that can be used to just mess around in its normal configuration.

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next up: foiling Dyer Dhows!

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Might be the best thing for the Laser... and the Moth....

 

I'd buy the rig for the laser, but suspect that over time the daggerboard trunk and transom would fail or soften from carrying the load.

 

After the first line of foiling, I'd probably want more -- with the addiction leading straight to the hard drugs -- the Moth.

 

Mothies oughta support this one.

 

P

 

 

I agree, this would probably be a good stepping stone to a Moth. Inexpensive and probably easier to foil. Will it ever replace the Moth? Doubtful. If you took this boat and replaced the rig, reinforced the mast step, daggerboard box, and transom and then added some racks you'd end up with a heavy and slow moth at nearly the same price. Cool idea for a starting foiler through. Wonder what it takes to launch with those foils sticking out the bottom.

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So I gather, foils downhill only.....?

 

Still awesome idea thou....

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Doug - this look very similar to what we suggested you build. Maybe you could buy one?

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Shows just how far Doug was off in designing a boat to his own spec: (not just the peoples foiler).

 

-You sit in the center (as you do just off to the side on a laser). Cause its soo hard to move around (just gotta do a couple sit-ups before you sail one of these but your still sorta in the center! (maybe strap on a little bar to rest your back on).
-Foils in light air, manageable in 25. -Clearly is flying is almost no air in the image shown, and just stick a 4.7 kiddies sail in when there's a blow.

-Pitch-pole stability, theres is your Self righting trimaran problem solved! (remove the amas and 17 other foils and just it just rolls back over!).

 

The only differences are:
-It wont cost $100 000
-It wont take 4 hours to set up and 5 hours to pack it away
-Most of the parts are every where in the world
-Its trailer-able, hell its carry-able not 800lbs or whatever the 18 foor long by 27 foot wide multi is
-Its a blast for two if you don't want to race cause its got some serious boyancy

-Its not as fragile as a teenage girls heart
-It'll have resale value
-Okay so it might do 25 knots downwind and 15 upwind and point high, not whatever the 27 foot wide 18 foot long trimaran will do if it ever gets out there, or if we ever see a video of the everlasting model project flying (i applaud you're commitment still mate and follow your project along just to see what it will do, but i recon with the right input it does have potential, so still best of luck i hope its the best thing ever (in your opinion and your life goal succeeds with your unstoppable racing machine, but please stop re posting the same shit 1000 000 times, we all know it mate, and all have our own ideas, but when you post original shit, fuck, IT REALLY CAN BE be pretty interesting! and yes please strap 100 gopros to it so you dont have the same 2 photos to show your entire lifes work)

 

 

And for the project,
-What stages will the kit be available and cost estimates... (and amount of work estimated to get one up to that point)?
-AND HOW SOON! because by Golly I'm in Perth and the Freo doctor is coming in a few months, and when we cant get out on the tornado I want something single-handed that i can rig up in 10 minutes, have a blast and get my fix, and in 10 minutes have it gone again!
EXCELLENT WORK GUYS!

 

PS. I recon with the option of the 3 Rigs, and the simplicity of hopefully only a few tiny mods to an existing boat and a well priced kit, i recon this could be seen around A LOT! (and I'm sure hoping i can be tearing it up on one this Summer!!!!)

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Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

 

 

Am I the only one who finds it amusing the DL was questioning the validity of a foiling boat?????

 

Hello Pot, its Kettle Calling.

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Can it foil dead down wind faster than the wind?

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Also, is there a way of stopping the foils from trying to generate lift when going upwind with some sort of switch or catch to reduce drag, as im guessing it foils a lot sooner downwind than upwind, and then that way its far more efficient upwind when there isnt enough power to justify the flying/drag...?

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Speed will be interesting: foiling back and forth gets dull after a few goes and if its not going over 15 knots it will be over taken by many other non-foiling boats and then might lose novelty quite fast. Ask anyone who owned a 600ff.

plus, if you buy a decent laser and put these foils on it won't the cost start ramping up to 2nd hand bladerider territory...for much less speed?

 

If it can do 20 knots then game on. You'll probably sell loads anyway

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How about some nice windsurfer style sails to go with the foils. I bet NP could probably build them for less than laser used to sell the dacron things for!

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How about some nice windsurfer style sails to go with the foils. I bet NP could probably build them for less than laser used to sell the dacron things for!

Thats funny.

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I wonder if its slower or faster upwind when it is windy enough to foil off the wind... I would think a little slower upwind would be ok if it was that much more fun cracked off.

 

Triangle course time is irrelevant. If you are racing, you are on a multihull. Duh.

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Does anyone think it will be easier than the moth? I think for some it's not the cost. This is hypothetical as I'm broke but even if I could afford a moth I probably wouldn't as the time I currently have to spare for sailing would make the learning curve virtually impossible.

 

If this thing is not too much harder than a regular laser then I know it wouldn't take so long to figure it out. Also, most of my sailing times are dictated by my schedule rather than being able to choose good weather and tides. I like that if it wasn't suitable for capsizing a lot and being unsure if I could get back to the club I could put the regular foils in and go for a spin, which would be more fun that sitting in the parking lot looking at my moth wondering if it's safe.

 

A lot of people know if they can sail a laser or not. Which may provide confidence. I honestly don't know if I could sail a moth or not, and short of buying one I don't know how to find out. If it was deemed that say, it was like sailing a laser but 10% harder or that most club level laser sailors manage it quite easily. I would feel a lot more confident throwing down some cash.

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...........I can't decide wether this is a great breakthrough in sailing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or lipstick on a pig :rolleyes:

 

.....one beauty of the moth is that it's light enough to carry in/out of the water.....do the blades raise up for launching?

.......otherwise,,,it looks like the wing is enough less than the boat's beam that the boat could be gunnel-dragged for launching :mellow:

 

.....it'd be fun to go stealth-mode in a regular fleet,,,just a 'bit' of lift

 

 

 

.........would definitely go nicely with a Hansen rig!

 

 

 

.................................what's the projected price??

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Another interesting thing from the photos is that it has a wand but I don't see a flap. Does it adjust the whole lower foil or am I simply not seeing the flap somehow?

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Where it can foil upwind or is anything more than a novelty it is still an awesome achievment. If you can make a laser foil with such a simple set up it will surely inspire others to realy produce the peoples foiler.

 

How about foils on a contender, there must be plenty sitting around in garages.

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How can taking something that they've made 200,000 of and making it faster be anything but a great idea?

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The photo looks like it is a pretty deep reach, but that can always be deceiving. Just like that laser with a wing, I'd like to see some speed trials against a regular laser, up and down. For good measure, perhaps row in a Hansen sail, a wing, etc. and you have a pretty good exhibition! If it can't foil upwind, it seems to me it will be quite slow!

 

But it really does contribute to my increasing feeling that I want a laser!

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Will this spell the end of the fourth mode?

 

Mex

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You know if this thing turns out to be a "Peoples Foiler" the last thing thats important is speed-ease of sailing, ease of launching, stable flying, light air takeoff, beach launching and the fun factor are the important elements. Flying is fun for it's own sake-speed can be a bit less than a Moth if the other ingredients are there. I hope it works out.....

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The rule must be added that the foil must be less than the max beam.....or words to that effect.

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Why?

 

The rule must be added that the foil must be less than the max beam.....or words to that effect.

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How about some nice windsurfer style sails to go with the foils. I bet NP could probably build them for less than laser used to sell the dacron things for!

 

 

Rooster 8.1

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the boat just needs to be made from carbon as does the mast and a pentax sail and no laser memberships and it will all be 50% cheaper then a std laser

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people are debating the merit of this. Your kidding right? So imagine what will happen at the local club when the first kid shows up with this on his Laser. Sure dad bought it for himself, but it's juniors boat. So he rigs it up to his 4.7 or radial, or full rig (remember it doesn't matter, 3 foilers can be made) and heads out, blasting past the dock. Pandemonium! The rest of the juniors are chomping at the bit to give it a go. Kids are trying it out, getting stoked and having (look out) fun! Soon most of the kids have em and after practice when it's blowing they are all rigging up the foils and heading back out, same boat, new experience. Then when dad can wrestle it away from his kids, he's out there too. Suddenly the kid who has his own boat while dad has his is in cahoots with dad, well of course they need more rig options for more foiling time, upgraded systems, etc. Hell if it takes off Sietech will be rolling out a new dolly for the foilaser.

 

Depending on the cost of this kit I would seriously consider purchasing and older Laser on the cheap. Dry it out, fix it up, get the kit and bam! A foilin we will go. So many people already have the boat, this adds new gears to it and enriches the experience of owning it. I hope this kit is as good as it looks and makes these guy rich!

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Until you know how much the foils cost how can this be cheap fun? moth foils cost as much as a new laser if not more when you add controls.

 

This is either the worst foiler around or the best laser around depending on which way you look at it. Having said that I wouldn't mind a go.

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I assume aluminum extrusion is a lot cheaper than carbon go-fast doo dads

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Will try to get pricing and availability numbers soon.

Also said 10 to 12 knots of wind will foil with a 96 kilo skipper.

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Closer inspection reveals the system to be a canting, instantaneously laterally adjustable foil -- without hydraulics.

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Closer inspection reveals the system to be a canting, instantaneously laterally adjustable foil -- without hydraulics.

You don't need hydraulics on small systems. It's controlled by a wand and likely via simple bell crank like the Moth.

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Hope the link works, got it from sail coach's FB page. It does prove it won't foil upwind.

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The foiling Laser Torch Kirby is not the People's Foiler. Truly, the People's Foiler will come when you can mod a MacGregor 26 to foil - this will be the full-on turbo mod, including carbon rig and bowsprit, new foiling keel and rudders.

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Foiling for Labour voters!

 

Give it 12 months and we'll see someone foil tack a Finn... :)

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Hmmm....in the full realisation I may be entirely wrong.

 

I've seen a RS600 foiling - just about - in significantly more breeze than is being claimed here, with a lighter hull and a much more powerful rig.

 

Why is the video quality shit, unless there is something to hide? Am I really the only one here thinking "hoax"?

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Not a hoax, there have been rumours around for about 12 months that PSA have been working on this.

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How about some nice windsurfer style sails to go with the foils. I bet NP could probably build them for less than laser used to sell the dacron things for!

 

Well maybe that is underway.........

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Wow! Just wow! Could be revolutionary..

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Anybody who says it wont foil upwind should give it time.

 

Recalling the early windsurfer and then later iterations of the rig, there's a lot that can be done for pretty short money to optimize any rig for better speeds if unhampered by one-design rules.

 

Dragging around the extra wetted surface way be problematic in terms of getting to foiling speed, but I'm sure it's just a matter of time before these things are foiling all over the place.

 

Well done guys, this is the next sketch on a napkin

 

Better send a note in to the patent office.

 

P

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I would think that the heavy hull would give plenty of righting moment when heeled to windward properly, so it could foil upwind. The problem is that the vertical is really short compared to the horizontal foil, so the leeward tip of the foil would be out of the water most of the time.

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