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hobie18rich

Foiling Torch/Laser

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As long as $$$$$ is entering the conversation, one way to make it less expensive would be this approach- no wand, have the boat ride lower on the water, which would have some practical benefits -

 

Check out this video on YouTube:

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad

 

I have a feeling that relying on surface effect might not work too well in waves. The wand on the new foilset seems to be an ingenuous design that allows the board to retract and moves the whole foil rather than a flap.

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I've posted elsewhere on this but having been looking for a decent used Laser for our club for the last couple of years, I can attest to the following. There seems to be a bimodal distribution in Laser prices with a few at about $1000 or lower which are old and have been at now-sold cottages, or $5000 race boats with dollies, covers and trailers etc. There is very little in between as observed on Craigslist up and down the west coast.. So to do this you might be looking at $11,000 for a good boat with the kit, which I'm sure gets you into used Moth territory. $5800 for the kit, if that's right, seems really high.

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http://www.sail-world.com/UK/Now-more-news-on-the-foiling-Laser/113035 This definitely looks the goods.

 

Looking at some of the comments

It is very easy to say "pay a bit more and get a Moth" but... even a second hand Moth is over twice the price of the Laser foiling kit! A new Moth is around double these prices. Anyone wanting to do this would already have bought one. There is really no comparison.
Its clear that rigging and launching a Moth is a major effort, carrying it on its side into deep water, try doing this with any other boat! Retractable Laser foils solve that
If you want to race my class legal Laser and go foiling, I will only need one boat

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I don't own a Laser......... So when does the Sunfish option come out?

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Here is a bit more info on the new Laser foiling system available for order from PSA now, first batch will be shipping worldwide in approx 6 weeks.

 

 

http://www.lasersailing.com.au/index.cfm?eid=1123&ntid=1361

 

 

Read the whole thing. This appears to be the real deal, very exciting, indeed! Hopefully they can get enough orders that mass production will bring the price down. Race your laser in normal mode, then afterwards put on the foils and do harbor burns!!!

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There aught to be a reward for the first Seattle Lake Union speeding ticket for a Laser. A moth already has one.

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Windsurfer and a Sol Cat 18 too....

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As long as $$$$$ is entering the conversation, one way to make it less expensive would be this approach- no wand, have the boat ride lower on the water, which would have some practical benefits -

Check out this video on YouTube:

Sent from my iPad

I have a feeling that relying on surface effect might not work too well in waves. The wand on the new foilset seems to be an ingenuous design that allows the board to retract and moves the whole foil rather than a flap.

True: I guess I'd argue that the hull would plane with less drag when touching waves at speed because of lift from the foils. It would kind of be in between wand style foiling and what the A class folk are doing? Lasers plane through waves well, which would take some load off the foils in a wave which would reduce drag and conceivably allow a dual mode recovery. I wish I still had Laser 20224 (ITIW). I'd try it out. Falling 4" and falling 1.5' feet are a bit different. Lasers fall 4-6" all the time and stay at speed. They slow down when crashing bow first from 1.5'. Not so much if you can keep the bow up. The cracking noises if you keep the bow up at speed can a bit disconcerting though-

 

Wish I still had my Laser, I'd try it. Might be able to get by with a much smaller horizontal foil (= > $? & > D @ Archimedes mode?), but that might be a sweet spot only found with some experimentation....

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looks great, too bad it is so expensive, now the rig and sail combo really looks shonky

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I've posted elsewhere on this but having been looking for a decent used Laser for our club for the last couple of years, I can attest to the following. There seems to be a bimodal distribution in Laser prices with a few at about $1000 or lower which are old and have been at now-sold cottages, or $5000 race boats with dollies, covers and trailers etc. There is very little in between as observed on Craigslist up and down the west coast.. So to do this you might be looking at $11,000 for a good boat with the kit, which I'm sure gets you into used Moth territory. $5800 for the kit, if that's right, seems really high.

 

The boats in the $2k-$4k range sell very quickly because they are perfect for club racers. You are best to plug into an active fleet to get in on these private sales.

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Lots of $$$$$ cool idea, but very pricey in my opinion!

All new cool stuff is expensive, Once the "must haves" have bought then the "would like to haves" can get at a better price, You'll just have to wait a season if you want a better price.

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Some of us need a definition of "up wind". Less than 90 deg true seams like too low a bar. The square riggers were still usefull. What were they, 75? What are the Moths doing? Within 15 degrees of a moth at this stage, with the std sail, I think is a full win.

 

Personaly, this rocks at any angle! If you have to beat it to weather with a stick and it can do it (non foiling) AT ALL, it still rocks.

 

Do we realy want to get back into the "sport boats planing up wing" fiasco again?

.

WHY would it be anything other than "best VMG" upwind ?

ie the current laser being the obvious benchmark ?

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Maybe someone can help them with their cost of goods after some kits get sold. The extrusions are really clever as they ought to be pretty cheap in quantity. My electronics colleagues pay a few dollars a foot for complex custom extrusions in quantities of <100' if I recall right, thought these foils will have thicker walls than a robot stage. One would have to see the kit up close as there might be a lot more parts than one would guess. Or they're talking to the wrong machine shops!

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Why be stuck with just one foil system? If I were still racing L/T's, it would be a blast to include one 'race what ya brung plug in foil system' at the end of a regatta. I bet some non modified (or barely modified) L/T's would race just to make things interesting. Do a normal course, normal wind range.

 

IIRR, this is how the high wind slalom races got started....

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WRT upwind foiling. I would imagine, that similar to an iceboat, once you get up on the blades and are going faster than the windspeed, the apparent wind comes way forward and you are therefore limited as to how close to the normal true apparent wind you can sail? I imagine that Moths are similar?

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Yes, same with any fast boat sailing high apparent wind angles. There is a limit to how fast you can go vs. vmg upwind. The Moth is very efficient though, since they are using essentially a formula windsurfing rig that is designed for high speed (40+ kts) and high apparent wind angle sailing (these guys are seeing <45 degrees most all the time). The Moth points slightly higher and sails faster upwind than the F18, the F18 performance is about what PSA is claiming for the foiling laser. It'll be a winner if they can bring the price down a bit ($4K seems much more reasonable, sounds like they are covering R&D right now) and the class embraces it.

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http://www.sail-world.com/UK/Now-more-news-on-the-foiling-Laser/113035 This definitely looks the goods.

 

Looking at some of the comments

It is very easy to say "pay a bit more and get a Moth" but... even a second hand Moth is over twice the price of the Laser foiling kit! A new Moth is around double these prices. Anyone wanting to do this would already have bought one. There is really no comparison.
Its clear that rigging and launching a Moth is a major effort, carrying it on its side into deep water, try doing this with any other boat! Retractable Laser foils solve that
If you want to race my class legal Laser and go foiling, I will only need one boat

 

First, I think the Moth world wishes this venture well. We have struggled to know how with limited resources we can teach people to foil and feel confident to invest in a Moth. Hundreds of Laser foilers would be a boost to our efforts as well as potentially a fun class in its own right.

 

I need to correct the statement about used Moth prices though. A good used Bladerider should be in the range $6 to $8k. One just sold from Santa Barbara for $7k. A Prowler, which was better built but a little older would be less, perhaps $5k. There may be a shortage of these in the US but not in the UK or Australia. A second hand Mach 2 (the current state of the art) is in the range $13k to $18k.

 

So you can get a good previous generation all carbon Moth for c$7k.

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You only have to watch the Moths in action to realise, that the foiling moth is obviously quite hard to rig and quite hard to sail, the foiling Laser looks like it will dramatically increase the number of sailors foiling, way easier to launch and much easier to sail.

 

No doubt the foiling Laser will allow many sailors to transition from Laser to Moth, but right now, the foiling Laser will be a fun blast for big numbers of sailors.

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Interesting discussion. Yes the price is high, but I imagine after a bit it will come down. That bieng said, we have to go back to the little punks currently father sponsored. All it will take is one 13yr old to show up at his club with one and two weeks latter there will be ten even if it means mom and dad go without food. They have to keep up with the Jones.

As for the price bieng equivalent to that of a Moth, maybe, but again you could buy a beater laser, and come in way under. We also have to keep in mind that in less than 15 minutes your laser is transformed back into race legal format. So you actually have two boats.

As for how much you will really be able to sail them. trust me there are alot of people that will not care if it only foils in a broad reach. The rush will still be there...

Give it time, they will sell, and who knows they may come up with a less expensive version.

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Niche item, that then will never catch on even if it is cool. Developers are trying to cover initial investment. Will they sell more than 100 kits? Doubtful. If someone builds a kit for $1500 or open sources for the DIY market, then I can see some traction.

 

For the kiddies what about a kit for the Bic O'pen?

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  1. I'm trying to decide what's cheesier out of this or the MX-Ray...

It's not so much the righting moment or the flatness of the sail that is the biggest obstacle to foiling upwind. Its the weight of the boat, which would lead to inordinate induced drag of the foils.

If the the main foil doesn't detach on the water to paddle your way back upwind, I'll be sorely disappointed...

It's not so much lipstick on a pig as putting a jet engine on a sports car. It spoils a vehicle that was well designed for its purpose. (But a jet powered car broke the sound barrier...)

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First, I think the Moth world wishes this venture well. We have struggled to know how with limited resources we can teach people to foil and feel confident to invest in a Moth. Hundreds of Laser foilers would be a boost to our efforts as well as potentially a fun class in its own right.

 

I need to correct the statement about used Moth prices though. A good used Bladerider should be in the range $6 to $8k. One just sold from Santa Barbara for $7k. A Prowler, which was better built but a little older would be less, perhaps $5k. There may be a shortage of these in the US but not in the UK or Australia. A second hand Mach 2 (the current state of the art) is in the range $13k to $18k.

 

So you can get a good previous generation all carbon Moth for c$7k.

 

A benefit to a foiling laser could also be durability, the moths look very fragile...

 

Keeping with the car comparisons, the foiling laser is a Mustang, a moth is a Lotus. You're not going to give the keys to the Lotus to a teenager...

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From Chris this morning Michael Brown( Australian Impulse Champion/ contender Champion) putting the foils to the test today in 10 to 12 kts, taking off down the bay to Wangi, Lake Macquarie at pace. The crew have been on the water putting the pre production sets of foils through there paces all week and will be for the next few weeks coming with different sailors, from 30knts down so far, I got sent out in a white wash with the big rig and had some fun out of control, nothing broke except a missing Go Pro....so far apart from some tuning and allot of learning on how to do we are kicking goals...even deliberately running aground at speed....the boats where new two weeks ago and are still new, I am amazed that the loads disappear like they do once the boat has it's foils on. (even the plastic gudgeons on the stern are ok for those who doubt) and I have had some big tail slides. Radial rig is testing best thus far we have even had the new Radial Full rig out for a play, see in pictures. We have tried really hard to break everything. All rigs very Vang sensitive. Big breeze tomorrow and on weekend, some of the Australian Youth Laser Squad are coming to play with the boats using there 4.7 rigs...fun..

920886_10151848998799636_1709700428_o.jp

1147029_10151848999194636_823088020_o.jp

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one attraction with the laser setup vs moth is being able to sail in and out of a wider range of sites, this will opn up foiling for more. where I am, you need to be at one club, the others are not suited for unescorted moth sailing.

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Some of us need a definition of "up wind". Less than 90 deg true seams like too low a bar. The square riggers were still usefull. What were they, 75? What are the Moths doing? Within 15 degrees of a moth at this stage, with the std sail, I think is a full win.

 

Personaly, this rocks at any angle! If you have to beat it to weather with a stick and it can do it (non foiling) AT ALL, it still rocks.

 

Do we realy want to get back into the "sport boats planing up wing" fiasco again?

.

WHY would it be anything other than "best VMG" upwind ?

ie the current laser being the obvious benchmark ?

Actualy, that would be perfect.

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From Chris this morning Michael Brown( Australian Impulse Champion/ contender Champion) putting the foils to the test today in 10 to 12 kts, taking off down the bay to Wangi, Lake Macquarie at pace. The crew have been on the water putting the pre production sets of foils through there paces all week and will be for the next few weeks coming with different sailors, from 30knts down so far, I got sent out in a white wash with the big rig and had some fun out of control, nothing broke except a missing Go Pro....so far apart from some tuning and allot of learning on how to do we are kicking goals...even deliberately running aground at speed....the boats where new two weeks ago and are still new, I am amazed that the loads disappear like they do once the boat has it's foils on. (even the plastic gudgeons on the stern are ok for those who doubt) and I have had some big tail slides. Radial rig is testing best thus far we have even had the new Radial Full rig out for a play, see in pictures. We have tried really hard to break everything. All rigs very Vang sensitive. Big breeze tomorrow and on weekend, some of the Australian Youth Laser Squad are coming to play with the boats using there 4.7 rigs...fun..

920886_10151848998799636_1709700428_o.jp

1147029_10151848999194636_823088020_o.jp

Sounds like this team is very well set up to do real tests. How about a race with 3-4 lasers, one with the foils, one standard, one with the Hansen rig, one with that wingy thingy? And publish the video and the GPS tracks.

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Foiling Saturday, Young Sam Booth Australian Youth Squad Sailor, 15 years old, seen foiling the Radial Rig (old sail) up and at it in the first minutes of hitting the water at 9am, then what do you do when the Winter westerly kicks in, 25knts plus, solid...well you stick the big bloke, (me) on the foils with a 4.7 rig and spend the next 6 hours having the most fun I have had on Laser ever. Video to come later from the Go Pro, once I edit it....some cool vid of us getting to grips with the foils...etc... for everyone asking for speed, Chris from Rock Box has come on board and rushing some units to us...we also changed the main sheet to of the middle of the boom and 10mm sheet so you could trim quicker....worked a treat...Starting to get the hang of jumping it up within a boat length or two, and can slowly wind it up wind, so far I think I can get it going tight at about 15 degrees lower than a normal upwind sailing angle...got better with the smaller rigs..but you gotta hike hard...so for me reaching back and forth all day was just fine...ran a smaller foil today was super friendly. some good stacks but you just pop up and and go again, only one or two capsize's. So use your energy having fun and not swimming...

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Hmm, so you have to hike like buggery, use a smaller rig than normal, change the sheeting system and it looks like the foil size is still up for change. Not quite the plug 'n' play some are hoping for?

I don't wish to sound negative, cos it looks cool and I'm all for a robust and simple foiling system - but I suspect before long the foils will find a home on a purpose designed platform rather than a Laser. I'm also nervous that PSA are using this as a pawn in the fight against Rastegar, with sailors in the middle losing out (again).

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$5800 is too steep.

 

I can build a set myself for under $1500. And that its been done shows the viability. They need to get the price to around $1k if they want a market.

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$5800 is too steep.

 

I can build a set myself for under $1500. And that its been done shows the viability. They need to get the price to around $1k if they want a market.

Agreed. I'd buy a set for a grand easily, but the whole rest of the boat is worth maybe $500- not worth 10x that for foils.

I guess I'll try to convince the club I sail out of to pick up a set for club use, although I might try my hand at building some myself.

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$5800 is too steep.

 

I can build a set myself for under $1500. And that its been done shows the viability. They need to get the price to around $1k if they want a market.

 

Give me a break! You could never do that-at least you couldn't build foils that would do what these new design foils do with the intrinsic wand, kick up, neutralizing rudder and partially retractable main foil. You don't even know how they work!

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$5800 is too steep.

 

I can build a set myself for under $1500. And that its been done shows the viability. They need to get the price to around $1k if they want a market.

 

 

I would imagine the price could be that low once there is a huge demand the economies of scale come to bear. It's a typical "chicken or the egg" scenario. Demand vs. mass production in China, or Vietnam or Malaysia.

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I've already built a Snark foiler for under $500. don't see what the big deal is.

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$5800 is too steep.

 

I can build a set myself for under $1500. And that its been done shows the viability. They need to get the price to around $1k if they want a market.

 

Give me a break! You could never do that-at least you couldn't build foils that would do what these new design foils do with the intrinsic wand, kick up, neutralizing rudder and partially retractable main foil. You don't even know how they work!

Oh Dougie - man who can't even design and cut his own model RC sails, Ii can see how this would be confusing to you.

 

Its not that hard your vertical strut basically has to be thinner by twice the diameter of the wand (so that it can fit symmetrically in the insert.

The retractable wand works essentially the same as the wands at max deflection would on a standard moth. you just put an elastic link into the equation so that you can go past "max down deflection"

The wand then pulls into a groove you have in the trunk insert alongside the vertical strut guide.

 

Now all you need is a mechanism to lock the strut in place when it is down and that's not hard (its called "screws")

 

since this "fits into a stock laser Rudder Cassette" - the "kickup" part is actually quite easy, its called a "BOLT" and a retaining line and a CLEAT.

 

Now the surface area looks to be 1/2m2 on the main foil (guestimating for materials costs. and your main strut about the same. Total Rudder surface area is probably around 3/4m2 so we've got 1.75m2 in cloth we need. Just swagging the layup of say 7 layers of carbon/Kev hybrid (cuz I like the color and the toughness the kev provides) so that's 12.25m2 of hybrid at $60/m2 and rounding up that comes to $780.

 

your core is going to cost about $200 cut to spec at the local skateboard (which has a 3d CNC mill) or RC modeling shop

 

a gallon of epoxy (which is more than what you will need for this) is around $100.

 

So that now leaves $400 to get a machine shop to mill you the bell cranks and source the pushrods.

 

 

So I've laid out the general cost to you Dougie.... do you need me to design the NACA foil section for you as well? I do realize that you have such difficulties with foil sections that you had to have someone else build your sails for you. I can even calculate out the precise layup schedule for you. Do you need me to do that so that your foils don't comeout looking more bog than actual carbon like your last ones did?

 

 

 

 

$5800 is too steep.

 

I can build a set myself for under $1500. And that its been done shows the viability. They need to get the price to around $1k if they want a market.

 

 

I would imagine the price could be that low once there is a huge demand the economies of scale come to bear. It's a typical "chicken or the egg" scenario. Demand vs. mass production in China, or Vietnam or Malaysia.

 

Billy I agree. its a price/demand issue. But any startup has to plan on losing money for between 3-5 years. if they cut prices drastically in the future, then early adopters, particularly the ones right before the price cut - will feel really ripped off. A startup has to have a financial plan for the volumes they intend to meet, the cost it will take to reach those volumes and then project 3 years of costs and have the capital to meet those costs. That then allow you to put together a decent ROI.

 

Now at a cost point of $1500 for these foils - I'm throwing in my labor for free, but at the same time in production volume discount a 50yd roll (7 sets of blades) drops the costs by 1/2. So lets say you figure this will be the business for a engineer fresh out of Univ. figure 4 hours per board set times 4 days per week (1 day for business ops upkeep) that's 8 boards per week or 400 boards the first year. At $20/hr wage costs (again this is a startup), you add $100/set in wage costs. Figure $300/mo in space rental (hobby workshop or 'rents garage) that's $10/board in facilties.

 

So your costs per board to make these out of carbon/Kev weave are about $1100. a 20% ROI for whomever is fronting you the money is a pretty good deal so that ups it to $1300. Shipping around the world, add $200.

 

So you could sell these boards at $1500 if you were doing a self-starter rampup and looking to produce 400 boards per year. Now lets say you wanted to do 1000 boards the first year and be ready to grow, your cost will be closer to quadruple that. BUT you really shouldn't amortize those out over the initial production. That's where the 3 year Break Even comes into play:

 

1000 boards year one, 3000 boards year 2, 5,000 boards year 3 onwards. You now have a $8mil annual business that employs about 6-10 people and your moneymen are happy.

 

 

And here's the thing. Patent your invention all you want. Others will figure out ways around the patents. The trick here was showing that you can get a laser to foil without changes in rig and sails. So if your price point is $5k... And a swag like mine shows you can build a competitive business selling at 1/3 the price - you will see a competitor enter the business.

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simple economics doug. Amortize the cost of R&D, etc, over volume.if a car can be built for $10k, a simple little alum foil could be built for 1k.

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At $5,800 I would be tempted to TRY and build a set of foils for myself on this. Part of the fun being the building of foils

 

I'd design the foil in Solidworks (I happen to have Solidworks cheaply through Rhino would probably be better) and use the auto-inverse function to get it to create a mold. I would then take the toolpath output down to the local skateboard shop and have them mill me a mold out of MDF (which is good enough for a one shot mold as the mothies have shown).

 

Then nice thing about that sort of mold would be I could do it in 3 sections: The vertical strut most of the way down to the T. The itself, and then the foil itself. And do these as an "infused" mold. This would allow me to have a really nice layup schedule with my sexy carbon/Kev weave on the outside but appropriate amounts of Uni in the T section

 

For the hinge I'd go low tech but cover the top of the hinge in 600mph tape (ultra thin AL duct tape that Boeing has FAA certified for certain exterior fixes. Very sticky, very durable very thin)

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BB you are missing a whole lot of business costs across your model. Add 33% to everything for friction, losses, wastage, and all the assholes up and down the value chain, warranty, and essential brand goodwill for after sale parts/service

However the point is well made: these can be profitable for $2K for someone. Make em for a Laser2 @ $2K and I'm a buyer.

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Interesting!!! there seems to be a lot more longitudinal jivtter than with moths. I wonder if this is because the mass of a Laser is that much greater so the flap has to have more relative range. Or is it a function of the 'wand' being basically in line with the flap and thus is not acting as a pre-signal...

 

Looks like fun though. But not $5800 worth. $1500? sure.

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new video of foil testing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdZ7iVkD7rs

Foiling downwind only for the cost of a new Laser? The "I want to try it factor" is high but not that high, at least for me. I am guessing I can get my hands on a used Moth for that kinda money (Laser plus foils).

 

Hope they can get the price down by half at least because its a cool idea that could be every bit as popular as the original Laser was and is.

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Interesting!!! there seems to be a lot more longitudinal jivtter than with moths. I wonder if this is because the mass of a Laser is that much greater so the flap has to have more relative range. Or is it a function of the 'wand' being basically in line with the flap and thus is not acting as a pre-signal...

 

Looks like fun though. But not $5800 worth. $1500? sure.

The movement that is called jitter is from the alloy pole two go pro's are swing off….

Nothing to do with over compensation of foil…..Actually that video he is on a 900mm foil. Moth size…..

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The cost of the foil system plus a NEW Laser is still about half the cost of a new Moth. If you want to foil reliably without the Moth associated athleticism and fragility you can't beat it. The Moth, without question is the fastest foiler, available now ,period. But maybe not the best for some people.

 

 

Foiling downwind only for the cost of a new Laser? The "I want to try it factor" is high but not that high, at least for me. I am guessing I can get my hands on a used Moth for that kinda money (Laser plus foils).

 

Hope they can get the price down by half at least because its a cool idea that could be every bit as popular as the original Laser was and is.

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I understand what you mean about the Moth, I think, but aren't there a couple of foilers that go closer to the 50K mark?

 

One's French, and REALLY really expensive, and the other one is faster and probably not as pricey....

 

:)

 

There are a few others too.

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I don't know of any other production monohull foilers. There's the R class but I don't think there is a production builder? There are a few catamaran foilers inspired by TNZ and many more to come. It's surely the begining of the "Age of Foiling" and that is pretty damn exciting!

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In my neck of the woods you can find used Moths for close to the price of new Laser and PSA's foils cost as much as new Laser making the package almost twice as much as the used Moth. If I wanted to give it a go - and I do but not for that price - I would get the used Moth. At least then I have something with a proven resale market.

 

 

The cost of the foil system plus a NEW Laser is still about half the cost of a new Moth. If you want to foil reliably without the Moth associated athleticism and fragility you can't beat it. The Moth, without question is the fastest foiler, available now ,period. But maybe not the best for some people.

 

 

Foiling downwind only for the cost of a new Laser? The "I want to try it factor" is high but not that high, at least for me. I am guessing I can get my hands on a used Moth for that kinda money (Laser plus foils).

 

Hope they can get the price down by half at least because its a cool idea that could be every bit as popular as the original Laser was and is.

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The new video looks great, especially when it blast by the non-foiled Laser. Get the price down and you have a winner!

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$5k is way too expensive. I was ready to get a set of these for my Laser that has been sitting in the back yard for years, but there is just no way I would get this for that price. To put it into perspective, I built my CNC router for less than what they are selling the foils for... and I would much rather have my router than the foils. I understand that the tooling for the aluminum extrusion and the initial production run came at a steep cost to the developers, but they need to hunker down and take some losses for a little bit. At north of $5k they won't get the critical mass they are assuming that they'll get. This is a fantastic idea that will get MANY MANY DORMANT LASERS out of backyards and on the water again.... at $1500

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I have been looking for a while with no luck to find extruded aluminum foil strus. Does anyone know of a good source? Thanks for the help.

see private mss. I alone have some!

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Here is a bit more info on the new Laser foiling system available for order from PSA now, first batch will be shipping worldwide in approx 6 weeks.

 

 

http://www.lasersailing.com.au/index.cfm?eid=1123&ntid=1361

Did anything ever actually happen with this - is it real or was it just another tactic in the Laser court battle?

 

The link is dead AFAIK.

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Here is a bit more info on the new Laser foiling system available for order from PSA now, first batch will be shipping worldwide in approx 6 weeks.

 

 

http://www.lasersailing.com.au/index.cfm?eid=1123&ntid=1361

Did anything ever actually happen with this - is it real or was it just another tactic in the Laser court battle?

 

The link is dead AFAIK.

 

Not dead, just resting....

 

http://www.glidefree.com.au/Homepage.html

 

Cheers

Craig

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Here is a bit more info on the new Laser foiling system available for order from PSA now, first batch will be shipping worldwide in approx 6 weeks.

 

 

http://www.lasersailing.com.au/index.cfm?eid=1123&ntid=1361

Did anything ever actually happen with this - is it real or was it just another tactic in the Laser court battle?

 

The link is dead AFAIK.

 

Not dead, just resting....

 

http://www.glidefree.com.au/Homepage.html

 

Cheers

Craig

 

 

Is Glidefree a new name for the PSA laser/torch foils? All the pics and vids are blocked on work computer, unfortunately.

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I have contact with the manufacturer of this product and can get you any answers you need. Sorry I haven't seen this thread till now. I will be in Contact with PSA this week on the Catamaran side of the business but can get Laser , Glide Free info as well. Please contact me by PM with any questions.

 

The Web Pages were down for a rework for a while.

 

Sorry for the inconvience.

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I have contact with the manufacturer of this product and can get you any answers you need. Sorry I haven't seen this thread till now. I will be in Contact with PSA this week on the Catamaran side of the business but can get Laser , Glide Free info as well. Please contact me by PM with any questions.

 

The Web Pages were down for a rework for a while.

 

Sorry for the inconvience.

Good luck with that. PSA and Glidefree are splitsville.

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Aug 12, 2013 I had money burning a hole in my pocket and there might have been drinking involved. I ordered "8001 - Laser Foiling Kit with Covers" for AUD 5800.00, The only further correspondence I received was the following message:

2013 August 29, 19:53
Thank you for your enquiry into the Glide Free foiling Laser-Kirby Torch kit. We are glad you are excited by this new development. We are busy finalising R&D testing to ensure it as good as it can possibly be. We will be back in touch with you shortly. If your enquiry is urgent please call us.

I imagine all this time they are diligently doing R&D stuff and fitting covers to my new foils, while I watch the $ vs. AUD exchange rate.

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Orange for Southern Hemisphere and Pink for northern hemisphere I heard.

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Have any of you received one of these kits? Saw an ad tonight, clicked on it, and it seems like the price has gone down and they are (pretending to be?) taking orders.

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Have any of you received one of these kits? Saw an ad tonight, clicked on it, and it seems like the price has gone down and they are (pretending to be?) taking orders.

 

 

let me know how it all works out :mellow:http://www.glidefree.com.au/Order%20Payment.html

 

 

 

International Customers - (outside Australia)

Total price for the complete Glide Free foil kit: AUD $4,530.00

International delivery cost for shipping & handling: AUD $380.00

Please note that shipping is to your door, but you will need to pay all of the local import duties and taxes such as VAT, which may be applicable in your country.

pixel.gif

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Have any of you received one of these kits? Saw an ad tonight, clicked on it, and it seems like the price has gone down and they are (pretending to be?) taking orders.

 

 

let me know how it all works out :mellow:http://www.glidefree.com.au/Order%20Payment.html

 

 

 

International Customers - (outside Australia)

Total price for the complete Glide Free foil kit: AUD $4,530.00

International delivery cost for shipping & handling: AUD $380.00

Please note that shipping is to your door, but you will need to pay all of the local import duties and taxes such as VAT, which may be applicable in your country.

pixel.gif

 

 

According to my online currencly calculator, that's roughly $4,600 USD plus, plus whatever.. Not going to be lots of sales until the price comes down..

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