Foiling Torch/Laser

[hobie18rich 3]

 

Went foiling today on the first production set of Kirby Sailboat foils( being politically correct) my first time ever Foiling, never thought I would as a 96kg Finn sailor, I foiled first go, learnt a bit and on my second sail after a turn or two on adjustment on the Rudder I was smoking across the bay, a brand new boat, no holes, just a cassette in the case, rudder goes on a current rudder head and is held down the same way as current boats. Pull it all off in one pin and you can go do Kirby/ Laser Worlds in your boat.

Future, it's not to replace current racing, just to let everyone, with old or new boats to get out and try foiling.

Stay tuned as soon to go public, cheers from PSA and the Glide Free team

[Amati 1,178]

The People's Foiler?

 

Kinda looks like...

[Gouvernail 2,371]

buy an ad

[ZeroTheHero 44]

wait till DL shows up in 3,2,1........

 

But I like it.

[Doug Lord 1,218]

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

[DA-WOODY 918]

now boat comes w a stand

 

double as a teeter-totter

[Christian 71]

Probably more real than ANYTHING you have ever accomplished regarding sailboats

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

[ZeroTheHero 44]

paging Gouv? Gouv?

[familysailor 118]

paging Gouv? Gouv?

He's right up there ^^^^ Post #3.

[ZeroTheHero 44]

 

paging Gouv? Gouv?

He's right up there ^^^^ Post #3.

well I am a dumb ass!

[hobie18rich 3]

This is real and Chris in Australia was testing this weekend. Hopefully pics and video to come quickly.

[hobie18rich 3]

 

 

[bluelaser2 2]

sweet. do one for a Laser 2 and I'll buy !

[Doug Lord 1,218]

Sorry I doubted you! Looks really good! Does the "wand" retract with the daggerboard? Do you have to deploy the board with the boat on it's side? Congratulations to everybody involved!

PS-how much wind does it take to foil?

[Gouvernail 2,371]

 

 

paging Gouv? Gouv?

He's right up there ^^^^ Post #3.

well I am a dumb ass!

me on this page .. I am answering your page...unless it is another page

depends on your settings I guess

[hobie18rich 3]

sweet. do one for a Laser 2 and I'll buy !

 

Talk to Chris at PSA.

[Munter 0]

Extruded alloy foils suggests intent to mass produce. Very interesting.

 

Would have been cold on pittwater!

[hobie18rich 3]

Sorry I doubted you! Looks really good! Does the "wand" retract with the daggerboard? Do you have to deploy the board with the boat on it's side? Congratulations to everybody involved!

PS-how much wind does it take to foil?

 

I'm working to get more details.

[Murphness 68]

Time to get a laser!

[hobie18rich 3]

From Chris

I had it up with my 96kgs in 10 to 12knts yesterday morning, I am sure with more practice you could get it going a little earlier, if lighter in weight for sure you can, later afternoon session was in 15 to 18 and I was smoking for a Laser....we need to do speed tests, not done that yet, my guess yesterday was close to 20knts..

[Mal Smith 3]

Cool. That's one more project I can strike off my own list.

[mustang__1 275]

Extruded alloy foils suggests intent to mass produce. Very interesting.

 

Would have been cold on pittwater!

 

i would have thought that extruded alloy foils would be too expensive to work with now that the price of aluminum is up a little bit.... or so a certain designer has been trying to convince the class.

[ZeroTheHero 44]

I want to get a clapped out Laser and put in some ports. Strip out all the foam and get it down to weight. Then put this kit on it. F'n blow the lake sailors of VT's minds. Awesome! How much? Sign me up!

[Gouvernail 2,371]

wait till DL shows up in 3,2,1........

 

But I like it.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=149283&p=4240514#entry4240514

[Sailingkid 3]

Fantastic idea, best thing to happen to lasers.

[Munter 0]

No doubt there is a bulk order of tissues being placed in Florida right now.

 

No sailing though.

[Lake Shark 7]

How does the lasers shit sail work with the foils? I would think Dacron main wouldn't be able to hold shape once the apparent wind angle gets so high without seriously stretching it out.

[B.Wilkinson 0]

Lets see a video next time!!

[Warwick C 0]

Extruded alloy foils suggests intent to mass produce. Very interesting.

 

Would have been cold on pittwater!

 

Looks a lot like a modified 29er centreboard with T foil attached.

[Bruno 99]

i think thats over due, ready to get a hansen rig now

[Flatbag 42]

How does the lasers shit sail work with the foils? I would think Dacron main wouldn't be able to hold shape once the apparent wind angle gets so high without seriously stretching it out.

 

Shhh. it's actually a commercial ploy to sell more of those 1970s Dacron atrocities.

PSA's cunning plan is that once they get the foils right they're gonna GIVE a set to EVERY Laser owner on the planet and watch ALL their sails shit themselves.

And then? Oh lord how the money rolls in.....

[sosoomii 385]

A while back all the Mothies were claiming it would be impossible to get a laser to foil, because:

A. The the transom wouldn't take the loads

B. the sail would be too full

C. It was too heavy

D. It doesn't have enough righting moment

 

Shows what they know.

[DA-WOODY 918]

 

 

paging Gouv? Gouv?

He's right up there ^^^^ Post #3.

well I am a dumb ass!

 

No ..... anyone who realises that would be

 

a Smart Ass

[AVID 1]

Holly shit. I want one. I'm to fat for a moth at 100kgs but have wanted to give foiling a go (4th dimension in sailing). If this is real, I'm going to start looking for a cheap used junker to get out and fly.

 

If they can make one of these (I still don't know what to call them) fly then there are plenty of other boats I would like to see do it. Can anybody say 505

[williwaw 0]

Is that the end of the foiling moth at10000000000$

[Der_Dude 6]

@chris:

 

Do you have to get on a plane first to get up on the foils or will they render enough lift in displacement mode?

[maxstaylock 120]

Amazing, I have just seen a flying pig.

 

How does it rate?

[JimC 606]

Getting a Laser to get up on foils isn't inherently that difficult: its just a question of providing enough foil area and enough breeze. What will be revealing is how useful and versatile the boat is. A one trick wonder that will foil from reach to reach crosswind in a biggish breeze may not sustain much interest in the long term. Think Hobie trifoiler. If on the other hand they can produce a boat that's rewarding to race in most conditions: well that will be a notable achievement.

 

It seems to me that the reason the Moth has seen off every challenger so far in the foiling game is that so far nothing else has displayed the sort of versatility the Moth does. A talented sailor can go and race a Moth using the foils in suprisingly little wind, and carry on racing it until its very breezy indeed, and because of the ultra light weight and the packaging rigging and launching isn't as much trouble as you might think.

 

And yes, I have no doubt at all a set of foils could be made that would enable a 505 to get up on the foils and blast about on a beam reach. But getting a set of foils that would enable a foil borne 505 to consistently win series against a standard one - well, that might be a different matter.

[BalticBandit 7]

 

Probably more real than ANYTHING you have ever accomplished regarding sailboats

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

Now you are going to get on Dougie's hate list!!!

[Turkey Slapper 52]

Lip stick on a pig comes to mind!

[Christian 71]

for the n'th time

 

 

Probably more real than ANYTHING you have ever accomplished regarding sailboats

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

Now you are going to get on Dougie's hate list!!!

[Pinching 14]

Might be the best thing for the Laser... and the Moth....

 

I'd buy the rig for the laser, but suspect that over time the daggerboard trunk and transom would fail or soften from carrying the load.

 

After the first line of foiling, I'd probably want more -- with the addiction leading straight to the hard drugs -- the Moth.

 

Mothies oughta support this one.

 

P

[Fuller 0]

 

 

Looks great, how much does it cost for the kit?

[Pinching 14]

You'll also get to sell us modifications for our Seitech dollies.

[Tornado_ALIVE 119]

....... Go Kringle. Now get the Capricorn flying

[WhyKnot 0]

Can we adapt these to Emilys Sabot?

How cool would that be? the first junior foiler.

[PeterHuston 53]

Getting a Laser to get up on foils isn't inherently that difficult: its just a question of providing enough foil area and enough breeze. What will be revealing is how useful and versatile the boat is. A one trick wonder that will foil from reach to reach crosswind in a biggish breeze may not sustain much interest in the long term. Think Hobie trifoiler. If on the other hand they can produce a boat that's rewarding to race in most conditions: well that will be a notable achievement.

 

It seems to me that the reason the Moth has seen off every challenger so far in the foiling game is that so far nothing else has displayed the sort of versatility the Moth does. A talented sailor can go and race a Moth using the foils in suprisingly little wind, and carry on racing it until its very breezy indeed, and because of the ultra light weight and the packaging rigging and launching isn't as much trouble as you might think.

 

And yes, I have no doubt at all a set of foils could be made that would enable a 505 to get up on the foils and blast about on a beam reach. But getting a set of foils that would enable a foil borne 505 to consistently win series against a standard one - well, that might be a different matter.

 

Seems you are focused on the racing aspects of this.

 

There are plenty of us that would love to just buy these parts, stick them on a Laser, and go have fun. That part of the market is far bigger than the standard of racing we have today. A couple of hours of reaching around on foils for a couple of grand is pretty serious fun per dollar.

 

As it is currently, I am not a candidate to buy a Laser, for any purpose. I have other boats that fill my needs. But with the advent of this simple thing, I could easily see buying a decent used Laser, sticking these foils on, and giving my kids the thrill of foiling, while also having another boat that can be used to just mess around in its normal configuration.

[bloodshot 74]

next up: foiling Dyer Dhows!

[Doug Lord 1,218]

There already has been an(almost) foiling Optimist......

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/almost-foiling-optimist-pram-really-30459.html

[bloodshot 74]

too sporty....

[BalticBandit 7]

There already has been an(almost) foiling Optimist......

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/almost-foiling-optimist-pram-really-30459.html

Yes Doug we know.

 

Any boat that can plane can foil if there is enough wind. So what?

 

I doubt that laser is foiling upwind in anything less than 15.

[MT14er 1]

Might be the best thing for the Laser... and the Moth....

 

I'd buy the rig for the laser, but suspect that over time the daggerboard trunk and transom would fail or soften from carrying the load.

 

After the first line of foiling, I'd probably want more -- with the addiction leading straight to the hard drugs -- the Moth.

 

Mothies oughta support this one.

 

P

 

 

I agree, this would probably be a good stepping stone to a Moth. Inexpensive and probably easier to foil. Will it ever replace the Moth? Doubtful. If you took this boat and replaced the rig, reinforced the mast step, daggerboard box, and transom and then added some racks you'd end up with a heavy and slow moth at nearly the same price. Cool idea for a starting foiler through. Wonder what it takes to launch with those foils sticking out the bottom.

[Elliot7 0]

So I gather, foils downhill only.....?

 

Still awesome idea thou....

[BalticBandit 7]

There's an easier and cheaper way to foiil http://skyski.com/store/

 

[Raz'r 2,803]

Doug - this look very similar to what we suggested you build. Maybe you could buy one?

[darth reapius 120]

Shows just how far Doug was off in designing a boat to his own spec: (not just the peoples foiler).

 

-You sit in the center (as you do just off to the side on a laser). Cause its soo hard to move around (just gotta do a couple sit-ups before you sail one of these but your still sorta in the center! (maybe strap on a little bar to rest your back on).
-Foils in light air, manageable in 25. -Clearly is flying is almost no air in the image shown, and just stick a 4.7 kiddies sail in when there's a blow.

-Pitch-pole stability, theres is your Self righting trimaran problem solved! (remove the amas and 17 other foils and just it just rolls back over!).

 

The only differences are:
-It wont cost $100 000
-It wont take 4 hours to set up and 5 hours to pack it away
-Most of the parts are every where in the world
-Its trailer-able, hell its carry-able not 800lbs or whatever the 18 foor long by 27 foot wide multi is
-Its a blast for two if you don't want to race cause its got some serious boyancy

-Its not as fragile as a teenage girls heart
-It'll have resale value
-Okay so it might do 25 knots downwind and 15 upwind and point high, not whatever the 27 foot wide 18 foot long trimaran will do if it ever gets out there, or if we ever see a video of the everlasting model project flying (i applaud you're commitment still mate and follow your project along just to see what it will do, but i recon with the right input it does have potential, so still best of luck i hope its the best thing ever (in your opinion and your life goal succeeds with your unstoppable racing machine, but please stop re posting the same shit 1000 000 times, we all know it mate, and all have our own ideas, but when you post original shit, fuck, IT REALLY CAN BE be pretty interesting! and yes please strap 100 gopros to it so you dont have the same 2 photos to show your entire lifes work)

 

 

And for the project,
-What stages will the kit be available and cost estimates... (and amount of work estimated to get one up to that point)?
-AND HOW SOON! because by Golly I'm in Perth and the Freo doctor is coming in a few months, and when we cant get out on the tornado I want something single-handed that i can rig up in 10 minutes, have a blast and get my fix, and in 10 minutes have it gone again!
EXCELLENT WORK GUYS!

 

PS. I recon with the option of the 3 Rigs, and the simplicity of hopefully only a few tiny mods to an existing boat and a well priced kit, i recon this could be seen around A LOT! (and I'm sure hoping i can be tearing it up on one this Summer!!!!)

[potzmann 0]

Hope it's real(which seems very unlikely)-if it is it could be a Peoples Foiler. Good Luck!

a. altitude control?

b. foils retractable/beach sailable(non-surf beach)?

c. light air takeoff?

 

 

Am I the only one who finds it amusing the DL was questioning the validity of a foiling boat?????

 

Hello Pot, its Kettle Calling.

[Pedro 2]

Can it foil dead down wind faster than the wind?

[darth reapius 120]

Also, is there a way of stopping the foils from trying to generate lift when going upwind with some sort of switch or catch to reduce drag, as im guessing it foils a lot sooner downwind than upwind, and then that way its far more efficient upwind when there isnt enough power to justify the flying/drag...?

[johnfreame 0]

Speed will be interesting: foiling back and forth gets dull after a few goes and if its not going over 15 knots it will be over taken by many other non-foiling boats and then might lose novelty quite fast. Ask anyone who owned a 600ff.

plus, if you buy a decent laser and put these foils on it won't the cost start ramping up to 2nd hand bladerider territory...for much less speed?

 

If it can do 20 knots then game on. You'll probably sell loads anyway

[ecosse4me 0]

How about some nice windsurfer style sails to go with the foils. I bet NP could probably build them for less than laser used to sell the dacron things for!

[shrek 0]

Bad ass.

[mustang__1 275]

How about some nice windsurfer style sails to go with the foils. I bet NP could probably build them for less than laser used to sell the dacron things for!

Thats funny.

[BalticBandit 7]

I doubt it foils upwind.

[GnarlyItWas 0]

Does anyone think it will be easier than the moth? I think for some it's not the cost. This is hypothetical as I'm broke but even if I could afford a moth I probably wouldn't as the time I currently have to spare for sailing would make the learning curve virtually impossible.

 

If this thing is not too much harder than a regular laser then I know it wouldn't take so long to figure it out. Also, most of my sailing times are dictated by my schedule rather than being able to choose good weather and tides. I like that if it wasn't suitable for capsizing a lot and being unsure if I could get back to the club I could put the regular foils in and go for a spin, which would be more fun that sitting in the parking lot looking at my moth wondering if it's safe.

 

A lot of people know if they can sail a laser or not. Which may provide confidence. I honestly don't know if I could sail a moth or not, and short of buying one I don't know how to find out. If it was deemed that say, it was like sailing a laser but 10% harder or that most club level laser sailors manage it quite easily. I would feel a lot more confident throwing down some cash.

[couchsurfer 206]

...........I can't decide wether this is a great breakthrough in sailing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,or lipstick on a pig

 

.....one beauty of the moth is that it's light enough to carry in/out of the water.....do the blades raise up for launching?

.......otherwise,,,it looks like the wing is enough less than the boat's beam that the boat could be gunnel-dragged for launching

 

.....it'd be fun to go stealth-mode in a regular fleet,,,just a 'bit' of lift

 

 

 

.........would definitely go nicely with a Hansen rig!

 

 

 

.................................what's the projected price??

[scottmax 1]

Lip stick on a pig comes to mind!

+1000!!!

[Munter 0]

Another interesting thing from the photos is that it has a wand but I don't see a flap. Does it adjust the whole lower foil or am I simply not seeing the flap somehow?

[Rawhide 81]

Where it can foil upwind or is anything more than a novelty it is still an awesome achievment. If you can make a laser foil with such a simple set up it will surely inspire others to realy produce the peoples foiler.

 

How about foils on a contender, there must be plenty sitting around in garages.

[RockBox Chris 0]

How can taking something that they've made 200,000 of and making it faster be anything but a great idea?

[nroose 71]

The photo looks like it is a pretty deep reach, but that can always be deceiving. Just like that laser with a wing, I'd like to see some speed trials against a regular laser, up and down. For good measure, perhaps row in a Hansen sail, a wing, etc. and you have a pretty good exhibition! If it can't foil upwind, it seems to me it will be quite slow!

 

But it really does contribute to my increasing feeling that I want a laser!

[mexican 12]

Will this spell the end of the fourth mode?

 

Mex

[Doug Lord 1,218]

You know if this thing turns out to be a "Peoples Foiler" the last thing thats important is speed-ease of sailing, ease of launching, stable flying, light air takeoff, beach launching and the fun factor are the important elements. Flying is fun for it's own sake-speed can be a bit less than a Moth if the other ingredients are there. I hope it works out.....

[tamaozy 1]

The rule must be added that the foil must be less than the max beam.....or words to that effect.

[Doug Lord 1,218]

Why?

 

The rule must be added that the foil must be less than the max beam.....or words to that effect.

[Surf-n-Turf 0]

How about some nice windsurfer style sails to go with the foils. I bet NP could probably build them for less than laser used to sell the dacron things for!

 

 

Rooster 8.1

[Sailabout 73]

the boat just needs to be made from carbon as does the mast and a pentax sail and no laser memberships and it will all be 50% cheaper then a std laser

[oztayls 0]

I wonder if it will foil upwind?

[ZeroTheHero 44]

people are debating the merit of this. Your kidding right? So imagine what will happen at the local club when the first kid shows up with this on his Laser. Sure dad bought it for himself, but it's juniors boat. So he rigs it up to his 4.7 or radial, or full rig (remember it doesn't matter, 3 foilers can be made) and heads out, blasting past the dock. Pandemonium! The rest of the juniors are chomping at the bit to give it a go. Kids are trying it out, getting stoked and having (look out) fun! Soon most of the kids have em and after practice when it's blowing they are all rigging up the foils and heading back out, same boat, new experience. Then when dad can wrestle it away from his kids, he's out there too. Suddenly the kid who has his own boat while dad has his is in cahoots with dad, well of course they need more rig options for more foiling time, upgraded systems, etc. Hell if it takes off Sietech will be rolling out a new dolly for the foilaser.

 

Depending on the cost of this kit I would seriously consider purchasing and older Laser on the cheap. Dry it out, fix it up, get the kit and bam! A foilin we will go. So many people already have the boat, this adds new gears to it and enriches the experience of owning it. I hope this kit is as good as it looks and makes these guy rich!

[ChiGuy 9]

Sounds like a terrible problem

[TheDeerHunter 0]

Do it for a sunfish and you have a cheap fun boat to get kids interested in the sport again.

[GSJ 0]

Until you know how much the foils cost how can this be cheap fun? moth foils cost as much as a new laser if not more when you add controls.

 

This is either the worst foiler around or the best laser around depending on which way you look at it. Having said that I wouldn't mind a go.

[Raz'r 2,803]

I assume aluminum extrusion is a lot cheaper than carbon go-fast doo dads

[EDCURACAO 1]

Started looking for a laser!!

looks like fun!

[hobie18rich 3]

Will try to get pricing and availability numbers soon.

Also said 10 to 12 knots of wind will foil with a 96 kilo skipper.

[thengling 59]

Closer inspection reveals the system to be a canting, instantaneously laterally adjustable foil -- without hydraulics.

[oztayls 0]

Closer inspection reveals the system to be a canting, instantaneously laterally adjustable foil -- without hydraulics.

You don't need hydraulics on small systems. It's controlled by a wand and likely via simple bell crank like the Moth.

[Major Tom 237]

https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=10151829774689636

[Major Tom 237]

Hope the link works, got it from sail coach's FB page. It does prove it won't foil upwind.

[killapenguin 0]

The foiling Laser Torch Kirby is not the People's Foiler. Truly, the People's Foiler will come when you can mod a MacGregor 26 to foil - this will be the full-on turbo mod, including carbon rig and bowsprit, new foiling keel and rudders.

[NZL3481 281]

Foiling for Labour voters!

 

Give it 12 months and we'll see someone foil tack a Finn...

[dogwatch 451]

Hmmm....in the full realisation I may be entirely wrong.

 

I've seen a RS600 foiling - just about - in significantly more breeze than is being claimed here, with a lighter hull and a much more powerful rig.

 

Why is the video quality shit, unless there is something to hide? Am I really the only one here thinking "hoax"?

[SCARECROW 381]

Not a hoax, there have been rumours around for about 12 months that PSA have been working on this.

[rft 1]

http://www.sailmix.com/dinghy-sailing/watch-video-of-the-foiling-laser-during-testing

[oztayls 0]

I see from the sail, this is the Ladies version.