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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Why tease? AlC will race as hard as he can regardless of whether AT has a spare. If he doesn't race flat out SJ will beat him.

 

Agree. I don't know why these games are going on in the media (and here).

 

Revenge, perhaps? E.g, this recent article suggests Alex has had it easier than the others

 

 

A difference of just 698 miles, which helps explain the gain of more than five days as they enter the Indian Ocean, which is also linked to the performance of the black foiler and the very favourable weather, cutting the number of manoeuvres required (no changes of tack and four gybes) in eighteen days. Of course, the British skipper did have to change sails, like all the other sailors, and adapt his route to the sea state, but this lack of manoeuvres also means he has been able to avoid wearing himself out. That has not been the case for many other skippers…

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/16501/the-long-and-winding-road

 

And then this tweet shows up from Alex's team:

Alex Thomson Racing Retweeted

Premium British energy drink @rich_energy proud to partner @ATRacing99 fuelling world class performance #elite #performance #ocean #hugoboss

CyHulDzWIAAxTwF.jpg

 

Nice coincidence, but also like subtle British humour ("our sponsors make it easy")

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No that would be a Rich Tea Biscuit if you wanted to make it easy........ will fly over the heads of anyone who is not a Brit methinks... it is quite cool to think that maybe even the Aussies and Kiws may possibly .. and I say this with caution ....be backing a BRIT. And to all the technical brains posting here please keep up the good work and especially those who are doing routing - way beyond my expedition skills so thanks it is appreciated to have another view not just the feeds

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Great how once again we see HB & BP neck and neck and now lined up in pretty much the same conditions. Difficult to tell from individual scheds but once again it looks like boss maybe has the edge on speed? The next day or so will be telling.....

 

Does anyone know if the boat speeds recorded for the tracker are instantaneous snapshots taken at each recording time or are they some form of average taken over previous minutes/hours?

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Thanks Alex for giving food for discussion, love it. You know that he was playing around when on the video he was sitting in the right spot to cover things up. He already let us know that he had problems, that is enough info, or already to much.

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Great how once again we see HB & BP neck and neck and now lined up in pretty much the same conditions. Difficult to tell from individual scheds but once again it looks like boss maybe has the edge on speed? The next day or so will be telling.....

 

Does anyone know if the boat speeds recorded for the tracker are instantaneous snapshots taken at each recording time or are they some form of average taken over previous minutes/hours?

 

There are three speeds compiled (see spreadsheet at http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/ranking-history )

Average over thirty minutes (what we usually see on the tracker), 4 hr average, and 24 hr average. Try the 'classement' option to see more at http://bastideotio.geovoile.com/vendeeglobe/2016/mainboard/?leg=1

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I like the way they showed him playing with them:

 

Quotes

Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss): “It's not always foiling conditions. I'm not always going fast enough to be able to use it. I'll be on starboard until about 4.30am or 5am and then I'll be back on port. There's not going to be much on starboard for the next 10 days so I have to make the most of it now.

Do you have a spare foil?

1. “It's an interesting question. One of the benefits of going for the design that we went for is that you have the ability to be able to push out what was there, and we'd be the only boat in the fleet that could put a foil in through the deck. It was certainly part of our consideration when we chose to go for this foil.

Do you have a spare foil onboard?

2. “One of the major problems with these foils is that they're very heavy. They're north of 100kgs each so the reality of being able to put another one in – getting it up on deck, and jiggling around with it – is that it would be very, very difficult. It's not an easy thing to try to do – I guess you'd have to have perfect conditions for it.

Do you have a spare foil onboard?

3. “Do I have a spare foil onboard? That would be telling, wouldn't it.”

Do you have a spare foil onboard?

4. “No comment.”

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/16521/thomson-lifts-off-again-as-southern-ocean-duel-commences

 

 

Where did you get the rest of the conversation? In the linked article there's only the first paragraph.

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names.png

 

​There were some requests about names shown on map.

So I added names when you are zoomed in enough.

 

But I'm not sure it is useful.

Ideas?

Like

 

 

+1

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No better time for some head games than when you are making the corner into the Southern Ocean. Offer your opponents a carrot and then leave them scratching their heads when they can't catch up.

 

I am gutted by Vincent's misfortune. He and SMA were my podium choices, so I am down to one.

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Great how once again we see HB & BP neck and neck and now lined up in pretty much the same conditions. Difficult to tell from individual scheds but once again it looks like boss maybe has the edge on speed? The next day or so will be telling.....

Does anyone know if the boat speeds recorded for the tracker are instantaneous snapshots taken at each recording time or are they some form of average taken over previous minutes/hours?

 

There are three speeds compiled (see spreadsheet at http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/ranking-history )

Average over thirty minutes (what we usually see on the tracker), 4 hr average, and 24 hr average. Try the 'classement' option to see more at http://bastideotio.geovoile.com/vendeeglobe/2016/mainboard/?leg=1

 

Ask and thou shalt shalt receive........... thanks very much!

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Very interesting weather patterns, on GFS at least, for the weekend and into next week. The leaders are going to have to stay well north of the ice zone and therefore the rhum line to the horn... Options for the chasing pack to close up perhaps? As covering all the possibilities is going it be difficult.

 

Thoughts?

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I like the way they showed him playing with them:

Quotes

Alex Thomson (Hugo Boss): “It's not always foiling conditions. I'm not always going fast enough to be able to use it. I'll be on starboard until about 4.30am or 5am and then I'll be back on port. There's not going to be much on starboard for the next 10 days so I have to make the most of it now.

Do you have a spare foil?

1. “It's an interesting question. One of the benefits of going for the design that we went for is that you have the ability to be able to push out what was there, and we'd be the only boat in the fleet that could put a foil in through the deck. It was certainly part of our consideration when we chose to go for this foil.

Do you have a spare foil onboard?

2. “One of the major problems with these foils is that they're very heavy. They're north of 100kgs each so the reality of being able to put another one in – getting it up on deck, and jiggling around with it – is that it would be very, very difficult. It's not an easy thing to try to do – I guess you'd have to have perfect conditions for it.

Do you have a spare foil onboard?

3. “Do I have a spare foil onboard? That would be telling, wouldn't it.”

Do you have a spare foil onboard?

4. “No comment.”

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/16521/thomson-lifts-off-again-as-southern-ocean-duel-commences

 

Where did you get the rest of the conversation? In the linked article there's only the first paragraph.

 

 

It was in posted link, right above the Colman quotes, but not now. Too funny. Guess I caught it between VG edits

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Very interesting weather patterns, on GFS at least, for the weekend and into next week. The leaders are going to have to stay well north of the ice zone and therefore the rhum line to the horn... Options for the chasing pack to close up perhaps? As covering all the possibilities is going it be difficult.

 

Thoughts?

 

When I looked earlier, there was a risky chance of a corridor along the gates (about 48 hrs ahead), but north around the light air looked safer since lulls looked to be developing along both routes.

 

No route looked like a clear advantage, though north offered the chance of a stronger current that might carry them through a lull.

 

So, seemed to be best to just wait and see how the weather ahead develops.

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attachicon.gifnames.png

 

​There were some requests about names shown on map.

So I added names when you are zoomed in enough.

 

But I'm not sure it is useful.

Ideas?

 

I have the lead 3 or 4 boat colors memorized by now, but I think it is great for quickly visualizing the battles further back in the pack. +1 for keeping it turned on and thanks for the almost daily improvements!

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Interesting that AT seems hardly worried about the stump still sticking out in the video, even though he thinks that he'll be 10 days on port soon...

Mental games?

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I think there is probably 2 knots difference port to starboard on Boss. That would be extremely frustrating for Alex over a long period. That is where experience comes in.

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Alex sailing lower and faster...has reversed the trend and has put some miles back on BP. Seb looks to be finding some speed bumps....that looks as though it will get worse this weekend before it gets better for him unless the two in front hit the wall.

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It seems when Alex Thomson needs to go upwind on port tack, he has a choice between canting the keel and losing much lateral resistance, or dropping the keel and lose much stability. So I have been wondering, for some years now, is there a drawback to making the keel an inverted T-foil? The more you cant the keel the closer to vertical the crossbar of the T would be, and it would provide lateral resistance when the strut doesn't. That option wasn't used when the design of the keel was open, so I guess it has some drawbacks compared to daggerboards that I haven't thought of. Can anyone here make an educated guess what the drawbacks would be?

Is the shape of the keel bulb part of the one-design keel for the newer boats? Also, with the keel being one-design, any reason why the root of that foil wasn't made two or three times as wide, to space the bearings more widely and reduce the likelihood of the failure that took Vincent Riou out of the race? It would have been a bit slower, but equally so for all new boats, and their other design advances should have prevented them from being slower than the old boats.

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Can someone help me find the toggle to switch between GFS and ECMWF in forss wonderful tracker (love the names added, by the way)? I see the toggle in the original Windyty site.

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It seems when Alex Thomson needs to go upwind on port tack, he has a choice between canting the keel and losing much lateral resistance, or dropping the keel and lose much stability. So I have been wondering, for some years now, is there a drawback to making the keel an inverted T-foil? The more you cant the keel the closer to vertical the crossbar of the T would be, and it would provide lateral resistance when the strut doesn't. That option wasn't used when the design of the keel was open, so I guess it has some drawbacks compared to daggerboards that I haven't thought of. Can anyone here make an educated guess what the drawbacks would be?

Is the shape of the keel bulb part of the one-design keel for the newer boats? Also, with the keel being one-design, any reason why the root of that foil wasn't made two or three times as wide, to space the bearings more widely and reduce the likelihood of the failure that took Vincent Riou out of the race? It would have been a bit slower, but equally so for all new boats, and their other design advances should have prevented them from being slower than the old boats.

 

probably because boards do a better overall job. also pretty sure the bearing spacing is wider than the keel root because the top of the strut at pivot axis is machined longer horizontally.

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Interesting that AT seems hardly worried about the stump still sticking out in the video, even though he thinks that he'll be 10 days on port soon...

Mental games?

I think its not slowing him down as much as he let on. Must be helping somewhat or he would have jettisoned it first chance he had.

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They often use file footage & pics along with the audio updates.

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It seems when Alex Thomson needs to go upwind on port tack, he has a choice between canting the keel and losing much lateral resistance, or dropping the keel and lose much stability. So I have been wondering, for some years now, is there a drawback to making the keel an inverted T-foil? The more you cant the keel the closer to vertical the crossbar of the T would be, and it would provide lateral resistance when the strut doesn't. That option wasn't used when the design of the keel was open, so I guess it has some drawbacks compared to daggerboards that I haven't thought of. Can anyone here make an educated guess what the drawbacks would be?

Is the shape of the keel bulb part of the one-design keel for the newer boats? Also, with the keel being one-design, any reason why the root of that foil wasn't made two or three times as wide, to space the bearings more widely and reduce the likelihood of the failure that took Vincent Riou out of the race? It would have been a bit slower, but equally so for all new boats, and their other design advances should have prevented them from being slower than the old boats.

 

probably because boards do a better overall job. also pretty sure the bearing spacing is wider than the keel root because the top of the strut at pivot axis is machined longer horizontally.

 

In general T foils have not worked. Too much drag across the use spectrum. But if it could be made more efficient...

 

http://www.slideshare.net/foilingweek/july-8th-2014-presentation-by-doug-schicler-tagliapietra

 

also check our FB for images of this system built and racing. (though it is not IMOCA compliant)

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It seems when Alex Thomson needs to go upwind on port tack, he has a choice between canting the keel and losing much lateral resistance, or dropping the keel and lose much stability. So I have been wondering, for some years now, is there a drawback to making the keel an inverted T-foil? The more you cant the keel the closer to vertical the crossbar of the T would be, and it would provide lateral resistance when the strut doesn't. That option wasn't used when the design of the keel was open, so I guess it has some drawbacks compared to daggerboards that I haven't thought of. Can anyone here make an educated guess what the drawbacks would be?

Is the shape of the keel bulb part of the one-design keel for the newer boats? Also, with the keel being one-design, any reason why the root of that foil wasn't made two or three times as wide, to space the bearings more widely and reduce the likelihood of the failure that took Vincent Riou out of the race? It would have been a bit slower, but equally so for all new boats, and their other design advances should have prevented them from being slower than the old boats.

 

probably because boards do a better overall job. also pretty sure the bearing spacing is wider than the keel root because the top of the strut at pivot axis is machined longer horizontally.

Boards can be toed in to give a better AoA and you can get a higher aspect ratio. In very light conditions, with the keel almost vertical and the boards up, there is a lot less frontal area and WSA than with a keel T foil.

 

As a one design requirement, increasing the span of the keel root or distance between end pivots to reduce loads and help avoid breakdowns could be a good idea. A bit of extra directional stability with so much of the boat out of the water these days might be handy as well.

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No better time for some head games than when you are making the corner into the Southern Ocean. Offer your opponents a carrot and then leave them scratching their heads when they can't catch up.

 

I am gutted by Vincent's misfortune. He and SMA were my podium choices, so I am down to one.

they were my choices too. Just JLC left.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

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Alex has lit the afterburner on his rocket-ship again. Fuck, what a flyer.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

 

If it's 'Groundhog Day", 100% - but in reality, as the boat is almost guaranteed to be in a different area of water, way less.

 

Unless we're talking deep Southern Ocean in growler territory, maybe.

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I wonder if AT can adjust the polars in his routing software to asymmetrically estimate performance with the broken foil

 

In Expedition and I would think Adrena too, one can adjust the percentage of the polar file. I very rarely run routing at 100% as there are so many variables, not the least of which is human interference!

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

 

If it's 'Groundhog Day", 100% - but in reality, as the boat is almost guaranteed to be in a different area of water, way less.

 

Unless we're talking deep Southern Ocean in growler territory, maybe.

 

Twice, in rather fast succession, would be slightly more probable for both lightning and debris, I think.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

If it's 'Groundhog Day", 100% - but in reality, as the boat is almost guaranteed to be in a different area of water, way less.

 

Unless we're talking deep Southern Ocean in growler territory, maybe.

Hmm. So does hitting something and surviving it greatly increase the chance of finishing and even winning whereas the potential for hitting a race ending object is higher for a boat that hasn't hit anything yet?

 

Don't mind me.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same
Correct answer.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same

Same odds as being struck by lightning twice or both boats have the same odds?

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same
Same odds as being struck by lightning twice or both boats have the same odds?
A flipped coin has 50% chance of coming up heads each toss, even if it has already come up heads previously. If you select a new coin, it still has 50% chance.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same
It's a silly point but the boat hit is still in the thunderstorm and has a slightly greater probability of being hit by another lightning than a boat not in that thunderstorm, given that they have equal probability of getting caught in thunderstorms later. If floating stuff in the water have the same characteristics, i.e. it tends to be more of it where there is some, then the boat that just hit something in the water has a greater chance than the others of hitting something until it's passed the imagined zone of debris.

 

That being said, of course the closer a boat is to the finish line, the less chance to hit something for the remainder of the course, so the leading boat at any one time has less chance of hitting something in the rest of the race than the others - except if it's so dire or big that the trailing boats could divert because the leader were hit.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same
Same odds as being struck by lightning twice or both boats have the same odds?
A flipped coin has 50% chance of coming up heads each toss, even if it has already come up heads previously. If you select a new coin, it still has 50% chance.
Thanks. Does the coin's symmetry and the oceans square mileage compared to the number of possible objects to hit change the chances?

 

Clearly I struggle with statistics. My imagination runs wild with all the possibilities. Well what if this and what if that?

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same
Same odds as being struck by lightning twice or both boats have the same odds?

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Both boats have the same odds. It's a new event each time Like because you got a lottery ticket this week does not get you better odds for next weeks drawing

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Both boats have the same odds. It's a new event each time Like because you got a lottery ticket this week does not get you better odds for next weeks drawing

Hitting a UFO is like winning the lottery? 😁

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Both boats have the same odds. It's a new event each time Like because you got a lottery ticket this week does not get you better odds for next weeks drawing

Hitting a UFO is like winning the lottery? 😁
For calculating statistical odds, yes.

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Both boats have the same odds. It's a new event each time Like because you got a lottery ticket this week does not get you better odds for next weeks drawing

Hitting a UFO is like winning the lottery?

I would think it is more like Russian roulette

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Names on boats on the tracker are great. I can tell what the leaders are doing by colour because of checking the tracker all the time but it makes it much easier to see what's up towards the back of the fleet. If you've actually memorized every boat colour in the fleet you are a truly Vendee Globe weenie of the highest order.

 

What a race. I think the does he or doesn't he have a spare foil business is hilarious.

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Both boats have the same odds. It's a new event each time Like because you got a lottery ticket this week does not get you better odds for next weeks drawing

Hitting a UFO is like winning the lottery?
I would think it is more like Russian roulette
Statistically no. Each empty chamber that happens increases the chances of firing the live round. If the barrel of the revolver was spun by hand between each trigger pull, then each trigger pull would have the same 1/6 chance of being live. Then it would be similar to hitting UFOs.

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Still no pictures of the so called broken foil.! His latest video he could have taken a photo as his good side was in the water and the stump sticking out apparently? Why do I get this feeling we are being played and good on him, play as many games as you want Alex if you can keep in front.!

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Both boats have the same odds. It's a new event each time Like because you got a lottery ticket this week does not get you better odds for next weeks drawing

Hitting a UFO is like winning the lottery?
I would think it is more like Russian roulette
Statistically no. Each empty chamber that happens increases the chances of firing the live round. If the barrel of the revolver was spun by hand between each trigger pull, then each trigger pull would have the same 1/6 chance of being live. Then it would be similar to hitting UFOs.
We're between scheds so what the hell.

 

I understand why the odds don't change. But I think if you were to look back at past Vendee races, I don't think that many, if any, boats hit a UFO more than once and...the majority of boats that did hit something once had to retire. This from memory alone. I just don't recall a race in which I thought "Damn! What luck! Two collisions in one race."

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The odds of multiple hits are much lower than a single hit. But, the odds of each individual hit are the same, whether it's hit #1 or hit #6. Right now, Thomsons odds of hitting a UFO are still the same as Cleechs.

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Still no pictures of the so called broken foil.! His latest video he could have taken a photo as his good side was in the water and the stump sticking out apparently? Why do I get this feeling we are being played and good on him, play as many games as you want Alex if you can keep in front.!

Lying is a lousy was to win. Were that AT making this all up, at some point the truth will out and he looks more like a fool than a strategist. Putting head fakes, being coy on how one feels or future moves is one thing. Lying about potential serious boat issues....bad form. At the moment I'll take that the foil got torn off, he's got more speed than people think, he may have a replacement and if he does, at some point it will come out.

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

Exactly the same

Same odds as being struck by lightning twice or both boats have the same odds?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Sullivan

 

Just sayin'

 

On the plus side, survived 7 times so in the case of HB, he only need survive two. Here's hoping he misses solid lightning for the next tens of thousands of miles.

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I wonder if AT can adjust the polars in his routing software to asymmetrically estimate performance with the broken foil

 

In Expedition and I would think Adrena too, one can adjust the percentage of the polar file. I very rarely run routing at 100% as there are so many variables, not the least of which is human interference!

 

 

 

But can you set your polars to be 85% on port tack and 95% on starboard, or something like that?

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Same odds as me shaggin Elle Macpherson for a second time.

 

 

Well if you have been there once it must be 50/50 surely ;) But she is getting on a bit now !

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I wonder if AT can adjust the polars in his routing software to asymmetrically estimate performance with the broken foil

 

In Expedition and I would think Adrena too, one can adjust the percentage of the polar file. I very rarely run routing at 100% as there are so many variables, not the least of which is human interference!

 

 

 

But can you set your polars to be 85% on port tack and 95% on starboard, or something like that?

 

 

Sure, one could generate two separate polar files. One with a foil and one without a foil.

 

Interesting question really. I wonder if the team took that into consideration before the start?

 

And then of course there will be an additional polar file for the mystical spare foil!

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Sure, one could generate two separate polar files. One with a foil and one without a foil.

 

 

Right, but what you really want is an asymmetric polar. If you have two files, you are routing either with foils or without.

 

Ideally you would want to route with the foil on starboard tack, and without on port. It may be advantageous to extend further on the fast starboard tack, or sail a different angle on the injured port. The only way to do this is to have the routing also know that you are faster on starboard.

 

I haven't seen these types of adjustments available in routing software. Interesting question indeed when you have situations like Comanche in the S2H figuring out strategy for 2/3rds of the race with out a port daggerboard.

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Sure, one could generate two separate polar files. One with a foil and one without a foil.

 

 

Right, but what you really want is an asymmetric polar. If you have two files, you are routing either with foils or without.

 

Ideally you would want to route with the foil on starboard tack, and without on port. It may be advantageous to extend further on the fast starboard tack, or sail a different angle on the injured port. The only way to do this is to have the routing also know that you are faster on starboard.

 

I haven't seen these types of adjustments available in routing software. Interesting question indeed when you have situations like Comanche in the S2H figuring out strategy for 2/3rds of the race with out a port daggerboard.

 

Not sure about Expedition, Adrena etc.. but TIMEZERO has the ability to have port and stb'd polars. I am sure the other high end tools must also have it.

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Sure, one could generate two separate polar files. One with a foil and one without a foil.

 

 

Right, but what you really want is an asymmetric polar. If you have two files, you are routing either with foils or without.

 

Ideally you would want to route with the foil on starboard tack, and without on port. It may be advantageous to extend further on the fast starboard tack, or sail a different angle on the injured port. The only way to do this is to have the routing also know that you are faster on starboard.

 

I haven't seen these types of adjustments available in routing software. Interesting question indeed when you have situations like Comanche in the S2H figuring out strategy for 2/3rds of the race with out a port daggerboard.

 

Not sure about Expedition, Adrena etc.. but TIMEZERO has the ability to have port and stb'd polars. I am sure the other high end tools must also have it.

 

 

Really? I don't see that on their website. Link?

 

I'm not really sure why anyone would normally need different polars for what is hopefully a symmetrical boat!

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Times running out for Alex the Jackel is hunting him down and there's nowhere to hide. Once Armel passes Alex he will stretch out. He has better boat speed and 20 miles is one hour.

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Le Cleach and Thompson might be rafting up together shortly....wonder what they will talk about?

hugo will probably say once again, that's Thomson, without the p :) first one to get spit out the other side will be happy. Looking at their tracks, HB took took the long road to get to where they are now from where their tracks meet the other day. Hope they get photos of each other. It would be funny if BP was the first to reveal the full extent of the damage to HB with some photographic evidence.

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Le Cleach and Thompson might be rafting up together shortly....wonder what they will talk about?

hugo will probably say once again, that's Thomson, without the p :) first one to get spit out the other side will be happy. Looking at their tracks, HB took took the long road to get to where they are now from where their tracks meet the other day. Hope they get photos of each other. It would be funny if BP was the first to reveal the full extent of the damage to HB with some photographic evidence.

 

 

+1

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AT's "sunny" video today pans the whole starboard side of the boat. No vertical foil tip.

 

Or, did BASF also engineer some new foil paint that's even better than black and orange combined? Invisible must be the new fast.

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could someone post a link to the tracker again.

 

Thanks to all for posting. It is really increasing my enjoyment and understanding of this race.

 

 

 

 

Bookmark it, or add to favourites.

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I'm still in shock over Vincent Riou. He was my logical and personal favourite. I cannot believe fate would do that to anyone, for the the same thing to happen on exactly the same day 4 years apart. That’s fate kicking you in the nuts.

 

I like the way Amel is sailing, he’s like a bloodhound on a scent.

Hope we get more video, these things must be an awesome ride.

 

BP_zpskjksrd08.jpg

 

Roll on the Southern Ocean, this is much more interesting than the current Volvo

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AT's "sunny" video today pans the whole starboard side of the boat. No vertical foil tip.

 

Or, did BASF also engineer some new foil paint that's even better than black and orange combined? Invisible must be the new fast.

+1

 

No conspiracy for now ;)

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As lightning strikes, what are the odds of one boat hitting something twice? Greater than a boat that has yet to hit something?

It depends of damage. If the area that a boat coveres goes smaller (as it did in case of HB) the odds go smaller as well.

 

BTW Alex is not leading anymore. It had to happen I quess :(

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We have a split at the front!

I would have thought AT learnt from his mistake off Portugal but looking at the low winds where ALC is headed to it doesn't look so bad. Very surprised ALC didn't follow.

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Alex and Armel are not in raft up mode...Alex sees a hole through the speed bump to the north..Armel reakons it is further south..let's see who is right tomorrow. BTW while Seb is struggling to stay in contact I think his time will come soon courtesy of that front end compression.

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Alex and Armel are not in raft up mode...Alex sees a hole through the speed bump to the north..Armel reakons it is further south..let's see who is right tomorrow. BTW while Seb is struggling to stay in contact I think his time will come soon courtesy of that front end compression.

 

The Jackel has made it's kill game over...!

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Never was

 

 

AT's "sunny" video today pans the whole starboard side of the boat. No vertical foil tip.

Or, did BASF also engineer some new foil paint that's even better than black and orange combined? Invisible must be the new fast.


+1

No conspiracy for now ;)

The only real ongoing conspiracy is: as to whether he has a spare board or tip.

 

It will be very expensive in miles , to stop and change out the whole board or tip. At their current speeds it's 15-20 miles each hour he has the boat stopped.

 

In no wind the penalty will be small.

 

 

Wait for it....

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I do not see HB/Alex Thomson in 48 hrs being safe from Le Cleach, as long foils stay in one piece.

 

Looked the 48hr later sched, the 25th 1100 Utc one, Hb 35 ahead of Bp. From over 100 the 23rd.

I should have said 60 hrs...

 

Damn, it shows that its way easier to use the big data to predict stuff, 20 yrs ago we could not have done it like this.

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Alex and Armel are not in raft up mode...Alex sees a hole through the speed bump to the north..Armel reakons it is further south..let's see who is right tomorrow. BTW while Seb is struggling to stay in contact I think his time will come soon courtesy of that front end compression.

The Jackel has made it's kill game over...!

Terra you really are a killjoy...the man in black is now warming up his angle grinder right now on starboard tack, not much breeze and with daylight ....Armel should be a worried man after that job is done on HB.

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Hmmm, not sure where Alex is going... my routing experiments with ECMWF, GFS and GFS ensemble don't show an excursion to the north paying off at all and instead suggest south is better and skirting the IEZ their fate for the next couple of days. Wonder what he saw that convinced him to sail such an unfavored angle. Time will tell I guess.

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Alex and Armel are not in raft up mode...Alex sees a hole through the speed bump to the north..Armel reakons it is further south..let's see who is right tomorrow. BTW while Seb is struggling to stay in contact I think his time will come soon courtesy of that front end compression.

The Jackel has made it's kill game over...!

Terra you really are a killjoy...the man in black is now warming up his angle grinder right now on starboard tack, not much breeze and with daylight ....Armel should be a worried man after that job is done on HB.

 

 

Yes I am JS. Armel is simply better at this Jack, them are mel the facts..!

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Hmmm, not sure where Alex is going... my routing experiments with ECMWF, GFS and GFS ensemble don't show an excursion to the north paying off at all and instead suggest south is better and skirting the IEZ their fate for the next couple of days. Wonder what he saw that convinced him to sail such an unfavored angle. Time will tell I guess.

There is not a forecast on mother earth that will be accurate between those systems where they are now...so sit back and watch....those guys are doing it as they see it on the ground....and in Alex's case getting ready for carbon tree grinding.

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Alex and Armel are not in raft up mode...Alex sees a hole through the speed bump to the north..Armel reakons it is further south..let's see who is right tomorrow. BTW while Seb is struggling to stay in contact I think his time will come soon courtesy of that front end compression.

The Jackel has made it's kill game over...!

Terra you really are a killjoy...the man in black is now warming up his angle grinder right now on starboard tack, not much breeze and with daylight ....Armel should be a worried man after that job is done on HB.

Yes I am JS. Armel is simply better at this Jack, them are mel the facts..!

OK understand...your mother/father... who you have never met must have been French then Terra??

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Hmmm, not sure where Alex is going... my routing experiments with ECMWF, GFS and GFS ensemble don't show an excursion to the north paying off at all and instead suggest south is better and skirting the IEZ their fate for the next couple of days. Wonder what he saw that convinced him to sail such an unfavored angle. Time will tell I guess.

 

Well it's worked out for him now and BP is following.

 

Problem with sailing is that you never really know if any given move is inspired genius or dumb luck, but AT has definitely been making the moves and they have mostly paid! This is going to be fun for the next few weeks, pity they don't have close company!

 

cheers

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Sure, one could generate two separate polar files. One with a foil and one without a foil.

 

 

Right, but what you really want is an asymmetric polar. If you have two files, you are routing either with foils or without.

 

Ideally you would want to route with the foil on starboard tack, and without on port. It may be advantageous to extend further on the fast starboard tack, or sail a different angle on the injured port. The only way to do this is to have the routing also know that you are faster on starboard.

 

I haven't seen these types of adjustments available in routing software. Interesting question indeed when you have situations like Comanche in the S2H figuring out strategy for 2/3rds of the race with out a port daggerboard.

 

Not sure about Expedition, Adrena etc.. but TIMEZERO has the ability to have port and stb'd polars. I am sure the other high end tools must also have it.

 

 

Really? I don't see that on their website. Link?

 

I'm not really sure why anyone would normally need different polars for what is hopefully a symmetrical boat!

 

Sorry my mistake. Just had a look and you can set different port and starboard sail sets in the polar configuration but not for the actual polar.

 

It would be easy to do, guess there isn't much demand. Perhaps that demand will increase as the proliferation of foils and broken foils continues on the race course. ;)

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So AT and ALC are basically now just positioning themselves for the next low to arrive from the behind. Not a lot to be done

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I hope Le Cleac'h buries him, I think the south is the right call.

Clearly you don't like HB German/ English Daniel Craig 007 tux's...BTW the first one lost the war to the second as the white flag factory cranked up elsewhere..

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