Recommended Posts

 

 

 

 

so how many of the foilers do we know have been sold already?

2? BP to Louis and Gitana to Boris. Any others? Safran I wouldn't really expect to be sold. Virbac probably would be sold eventually, although it seems to clearly be the slowest of the foilers.

I think Hugo boss potentially reduces the value of these foilers. It points to the opportunity for a new design to go further along the hb route and away from the max full bow of bp8 etc al. Anyone going for a new build may have a significant advantage over these boats.

 

+1

Personally I didn't think any foiler would make it round the world in this race and am proved wrong. I believe that is because the leaders in this year's race didn't ever seem to have to face really severe and adverse weather. Maybe that was luck or maybe the weather forecasting is now good and the foil boats are now simply fast enough to outsail the bad weather.

Whatever the reason for the foilers undeniable success it now looks as though for the next edition of this race, barring big rule changes, power and righting moment will come more from foils and less from beam and water ballast. HB was a halfway house to a very different kind of much faster Imoca.

Looks like all of the current boats including HB are obsolete if its a podium place which is aimed for and future boats will be narrower still, lighter, and structurally more complex. And high risk and very expensive.

 

What a fantastic race though. Bravo Armel! Bravo all the skippers.

 

How much of HB's performance is due to it being narrower versus it's different take on the foils? All of the Dali boats seem like they could fairly easily change the casing to fit a more horizontal board like that on HB.

 

 

 

Yes, both!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A month or so ago, forss posted a list of the entries, sorted by how many clicks they'd had in his tracker. I'm wondering if he could do that now, as a "winner just finished" snapshot... and then one more time when the last place boat finishes and he's prepping to shut his tracker down... My point is... I'm wondering how much attention the stragglers continue to get after the first few cross the finish line, and whether or not being on the water an extra month can get you enough clicks to catch up in the attention-count.

 

As far as the schedule goes... Looks like we get:

 

- AT in a few hours for second.

- Then a wait of 2-3 days before Beyou for 3rd.

- Then a pretty exciting next 2-3 days, with JPD, Elies, and Le Cam racing for fourth in decent winds.

- Then it gets a little boring for a while... Burton and Fa are far enough from each other and the boats ahead/behind that there won't be much in question aside from sanity, breakage, and provisions, and it'll be at least another week after the 4/5/6 group before they arrive.

- The next excitement after 4/5/6 is Coleman and Bellion, but they're a long way off still.

- Perhaps close to a month from now, we could get an interesting race for 11th (or better, if one of the above runs into problems). That pack of 4 will be coming in, and I'm not convinced yet that Costa and/or Attanasio can't catch them. Costa is almost 400 nm closer to Wilson now than a few days ago.

- Finally, in late February, possibly even March, it'll be down to Heerema and Destremau. I hope they hang in there and make the finish. Sanity, provisions, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

SCIENCE :D

 

Fwiw I love Destremau, the guy is a legend. They all deserve our support and interest till the end

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations to Armel, thoroughly deserved after being 2nd twice. Masterclass of single handed sailing and all the way up the Atlantic without his J1. Likewise to Alex, a very strong performance both breaking 2012's record time. For me Alex has finally dispelled his "wild boat breaking" reputation.

 

Regarding Armel's remarks about Alex I thought he was pretty straight and generous without being false. He made a joke a gew days ago to the Marine National plane saying in responce to "do you have a message for Alex" he said "Please stay behind me" pretty funny. Likewise when he arrived he was impressed how Alex kept pressing to the end. I listened to all the coverage in French, it was live on BFMTV for a few hours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

15.43 knots of boat speed over the 27,455 miles

...

 

Incredible for one person, no it's fucking amazing!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Except that it's now been loaded onto a freighter, bound for France

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just looked up `Canting keel' in Wikipedia. Somebody had credited Pete Goss as having developed and raced the first boat with a canting keel when in fact it was Michel Desjoyeux with his Mini Transat 5 years earlier.

 

I didn't realise it was so easy to change Wikipedia.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

I don't think that is a fair comparison. The VG boats and race is a continuous run and while we see two boats finish inside 80 days, a good number don't. The VORs have legs and given the new OD approach, race in close proximity for long distances. With a crew they are powered up 24/7 with no slacking of speed for sleep.

 

If you want the comparison, have the VOR65s race against an IMOCA on a RTW race and then compare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

So true!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

I don't think that is a fair comparison. The VG boats and race is a continuous run and while we see two boats finish inside 80 days, a good number don't. The VORs have legs and given the new OD approach, race in close proximity for long distances. With a crew they are powered up 24/7 with no slacking of speed for sleep.

 

If you want the comparison, have the VOR65s race against an IMOCA on a RTW race and then compare.

 

 

What's racing in close proximity got to do with outright sailing performance?

 

Yes they are crewed 24/7 by 9 crew. If anything more vigilance should lend itself to less breakages.

 

Put 9 crew on a foiling IMOCA 60 and you'll have your comparison which I'm pretty sure would leave the Volvo 65 behind.

 

I realise that a one design fully crewed boat is a different animal to a semi development class like the IMOCA 60s.

 

It's my opinion that the Volvo race has embraced the one design ethic so roundly that we see a more exciting type of boat in the Vendee.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just looked up `Canting keel' in Wikipedia. Somebody had credited Pete Goss as having developed and raced the first boat with a canting keel when in fact it was Michel Desjoyeux with his Mini Transat 5 years earlier.

 

I didn't realise it was so easy to change Wikipedia.

Herreshoff designed one about 100 years ago, I don't think it was built. A canter was built in NZ about 50 years ago. There was also one in SF about 30 years ago. The French were late to the game, though they did popularize it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A month or so ago, forss posted a list of the entries, sorted by how many clicks they'd had in his tracker. I'm wondering if he could do that now, as a "winner just finished" snapshot... and then one more time when the last place boat finishes and he's prepping to shut his tracker down... My point is... I'm wondering how much attention the stragglers continue to get after the first few cross the finish line, and whether or not being on the water an extra month can get you enough clicks to catch up in the attention-count.

 

As far as the schedule goes... Looks like we get:

 

- AT in a few hours for second.

- Then a wait of 2-3 days before Beyou for 3rd.

- Then a pretty exciting next 2-3 days, with JPD, Elies, and Le Cam racing for fourth in decent winds.

- Then it gets a little boring for a while... Burton and Fa are far enough from each other and the boats ahead/behind that there won't be much in question aside from sanity, breakage, and provisions, and it'll be at least another week after the 4/5/6 group before they arrive.

- The next excitement after 4/5/6 is Coleman and Bellion, but they're a long way off still.

- Perhaps close to a month from now, we could get an interesting race for 11th (or better, if one of the above runs into problems). That pack of 4 will be coming in, and I'm not convinced yet that Costa and/or Attanasio can't catch them. Costa is almost 400 nm closer to Wilson now than a few days ago.

- Finally, in late February, possibly even March, it'll be down to Heerema and Destremau. I hope they hang in there and make the finish. Sanity, provisions, etc.

 

 

Destremau will beat Heerema to the line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

I don't think that is a fair comparison. The VG boats and race is a continuous run and while we see two boats finish inside 80 days, a good number don't. The VORs have legs and given the new OD approach, race in close proximity for long distances. With a crew they are powered up 24/7 with no slacking of speed for sleep.

 

If you want the comparison, have the VOR65s race against an IMOCA on a RTW race and then compare.

What's racing in close proximity got to do with outright sailing performance?

 

Yes they are crewed 24/7 by 9 crew. If anything more vigilance should lend itself to less breakages.

 

Put 9 crew on a foiling IMOCA 60 and you'll have your comparison which I'm pretty sure would leave the Volvo 65 behind.

 

I realise that a one design fully crewed boat is a different animal to a semi development class like the IMOCA 60s.

 

It's my opinion that the Volvo race has embraced the one design ethic so roundly that we see a more exciting type of boat in the Vendee.

Didn't Ryan B mention somewhere earlier in the thread that when sparring/training with V65 team/s, the IMOCA won every time? I'm not sure it was even a foiler. What was the average RTW speed for Abu in the last VOR edition? Was it better than 15.43 knots? But that wouldn't be a fair comparison because of all the crappy legs and equatorial crossings they had to make. What was the best average run on any one leg for any VOR 65?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

I don't think that is a fair comparison. The VG boats and race is a continuous run and while we see two boats finish inside 80 days, a good number don't. The VORs have legs and given the new OD approach, race in close proximity for long distances. With a crew they are powered up 24/7 with no slacking of speed for sleep.

 

If you want the comparison, have the VOR65s race against an IMOCA on a RTW race and then compare.

What's racing in close proximity got to do with outright sailing performance?

 

Yes they are crewed 24/7 by 9 crew. If anything more vigilance should lend itself to less breakages.

 

Put 9 crew on a foiling IMOCA 60 and you'll have your comparison which I'm pretty sure would leave the Volvo 65 behind.

 

I realise that a one design fully crewed boat is a different animal to a semi development class like the IMOCA 60s.

 

It's my opinion that the Volvo race has embraced the one design ethic so roundly that we see a more exciting type of boat in the Vendee.

Didn't Ryan B mention somewhere earlier in the thread that when sparring/training with V65 team/s, the IMOCA won every time? I'm not sure it was even a foiler. What was the average RTW speed for Abu in the last VOR edition? Was it better than 15.43 knots? But that wouldn't be a fair comparison because of all the crappy legs and equatorial crossings they had to make. What was the best average run on any one leg for any VOR 65?

 

I was trying to find the best 24 hr run and got 550nm by AbuDabi on one leg but I'm not sure that was ultimately the best 24hr run

 

So 14nm more than Alex's record if true.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just looked up `Canting keel' in Wikipedia. Somebody had credited Pete Goss as having developed and raced the first boat with a canting keel when in fact it was Michel Desjoyeux with his Mini Transat 5 years earlier.

 

I didn't realise it was so easy to change Wikipedia.

Herreshoff designed one about 100 years ago, I don't think it was built. A canter was built in NZ about 50 years ago. There was also one in SF about 30 years ago. The French were late to the game, though they did popularize it.

 

I think it's fair to say that the French made it useful as a race winning feature. Prior to that, the canters that were built were at best experimental.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Just looked up `Canting keel' in Wikipedia. Somebody had credited Pete Goss as having developed and raced the first boat with a canting keel when in fact it was Michel Desjoyeux with his Mini Transat 5 years earlier.

 

I didn't realise it was so easy to change Wikipedia.

Herreshoff designed one about 100 years ago, I don't think it was built. A canter was built in NZ about 50 years ago. There was also one in SF about 30 years ago. The French were late to the game, though they did popularize it.

 

I think it's fair to say that the French made it useful as a race winning feature. Prior to that, the canters that were built were at best experimental.

 

True, despite plenty of early examples the concept didn't catch on until the French got to it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where's Alex?

Position report due in 40 minutes according to published schedule but you'd think they'd amp it up as the boats approached the finish line to help the locals mobilise to welcome them in and those far away to tune in and reward the sponsors....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talking records n stuff. I didn't think it was fair to compare Coville et al's daily times with the Imocas, and wondered how a 120' Imoca would go, imagine!

 

So trying to compare apples with apples I went the other way and looked at the 60' tri times wondering if the current Imocas were close to the multi speeds. 'Fraid not, not even close. While the Imocas are really spectacular (and friggin' fast!!) and while even this died in the wool multi fella has been enthralled by the amazing boats and antics of all the IMOCA sailors it's a fact that these boats are still inefficient compared to trimarans. It was about 24 years ago that a solo 60' trimaran first did 'only' 540 (!) miles in a day. And they have racked up much bigger days since then. Of course progress has slowed in the 60' multiclass since the demise of ORMA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

37 Miles for Alex at the 0300 GMT report. Only making about 6 knots so he'll finish after dawn at this rate and get a great welcome. Hope so anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Talking records n stuff. I didn't think it was fair to compare Coville et al's daily times with the Imocas, and wondered how a 120' Imoca would go, imagine!

So trying to compare apples with apples I went the other way and looked at the 60' tri times wondering if the current Imocas were close to the multi speeds. 'Fraid not, not even close. While the Imocas are really spectacular (and friggin' fast!!) and while even this died in the wool multi fella has been enthralled by the amazing boats and antics of all the IMOCA sailors it's a fact that these boats are still inefficient compared to trimarans. It was about 24 years ago that a solo 60' trimaran first did 'only' 540 (!) miles in a day. And they have racked up much bigger days since then. Of course progress has slowed in the 60' multiclass since the demise of ORMA.

Wait- multihull are faster than monohulls? I would never have known had you not pointed that out. It's a wonder there aren't so many more in that case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Talking records n stuff. I didn't think it was fair to compare Coville et al's daily times with the Imocas, and wondered how a 120' Imoca would go, imagine!

So trying to compare apples with apples I went the other way and looked at the 60' tri times wondering if the current Imocas were close to the multi speeds. 'Fraid not, not even close. While the Imocas are really spectacular (and friggin' fast!!) and while even this died in the wool multi fella has been enthralled by the amazing boats and antics of all the IMOCA sailors it's a fact that these boats are still inefficient compared to trimarans. It was about 24 years ago that a solo 60' trimaran first did 'only' 540 (!) miles in a day. And they have racked up much bigger days since then. Of course progress has slowed in the 60' multiclass since the demise of ORMA.

Wait- multihull are faster than monohulls? I would never have known had you not pointed that out. It's a wonder there aren't so many more in that case.

 

Try and find a marina berth for one...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

37 Miles for Alex at the 0300 GMT report. Only making about 6 knots so he'll finish after dawn at this rate and get a great welcome. Hope so anyway.

reports had him intending to cross the line, then head back out to sea for a family get together. Returning to port and official welcome at 9 am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take it to Canting Multihull Anarchy.

Fuckin great race, and there aint no losers when racing round the world solo. Thanks for the show ALC & AT!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic race by Le Cleac’h and team! Banque Populaire must be one of the more successful sponsors in sailing by now. Huge shout out to Thomson as well. He has made the race for first very exciting, and has show a brilliant never give up attitude. But as the cliché goes, there can only be one winner.

 

Beyou is still in third, which is very good going for an older boat I think. Especially, considering the amount of damage he has had.

 

Battle for Fourth through sixth is very close still. Does Louis Burton get a price for the loneliest Vendee?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations Alex. What a race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see AT come in. Motherfucker could have done the Sydney-to-Hobart single handed and beaten the record. Bet his boat is worth a bit more now, slightly used, one owner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well done, HB.

it occurs to me that I still have a hard time truly wrapping my mind around the fact these guys just sailed around the world non stop, it's not the easiest thing to process. epic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations Alex, Hugo Boss and team. An amazing result, for a fast boat with a busted wing.

 

Leaves me thinking, "What might have been?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what can we expect for the next VG, in the way of boat and foil development?

 

Perhaps some way of getting a foil to survive some impacts?, or a possible way for a solo sailor to replace a broken foil?

 

One of my first thoughts when Alex lost his foil was would it be possible to have the foil flip backwards into a slot, somewhat like a centreboard does in a dinghy, and/or have a hard rubber leading edge to absorb some of the impact? They have four years to work on this, let's hope we get some great ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what can we expect for the next VG, in the way of boat and foil development?

 

Perhaps some way of getting a foil to survive some impacts?, or a possible way for a solo sailor to replace a broken foil?

 

One of my first thoughts when Alex lost his foil was would it be possible to have the foil flip backwards into a slot, somewhat like a centreboard does in a dinghy, and/or have a hard rubber leading edge to absorb some of the impact? They have four years to work on this, let's hope we get some great ideas.

It is currently not permitted under the rules that any appendage is only allowed one axis/plane of movement. All of the foils are designed to move in and out. That is the only type of movement allowed, rotation backwards, while a potentially foil-saving attribute, is a second axis/plane of movement and therefore banned.

 

Hats off to all who participate in this race.

 

The standard of sailing and seamanship shown by ALC and AT is phenomenal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, anyone from the 'Foilgate' end of things want to chip in with some intelligent chat?

 

or will someone start a 'he jettisoned it last night at some point' thread??

 

Bloody well done Alex and Armel - smashing last editions winning time and a few records in between, top job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like Alex wants to go round again:

 

 

“A third, a second – it is easy to see what comes after this,” Thomson said. “Yeah, we’ll have to see. I think if I can put together a competitive campaign and we can take the level to the next one, I’d very interested to do the next one. I’d best ask my wife first.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jan/20/alex-thomson-finishes-runner-up-in-vendee-globe-round-the-world-yacht-race-armel-le-cleach-sailing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations Alex, Hugo Boss and team. An amazing result, for a fast boat with a busted wing.

 

Leaves me thinking, "What might have been?"

+1...... Definitely looked the fastest boat out there.......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congratulations Alex, Hugo Boss and team. An amazing result, for a fast boat with a busted wing.

 

Leaves me thinking, "What might have been?"

 

Almost certainly a win.

 

HB was seriously fast on staaaarboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see Armel on the dock to exchange congratulations with Alex. Two amazing sailors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see Armel on the dock to exchange congratulations with Alex. Two amazing sailors.

+1

 

And to say that Alex will win next time. ALC is all class.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, a morning watching TV after an afternoon doing same, unproductivity rules;

 

I have been following Alex ever since he joined the Imoca classs, and for other reasons had heard of him before.

 

The stengthening of his latest campaign was obvious, but in this arrival the man has stricken me even more than on the vids, he looked extremely mature, obviously having gained "thickness". His interviews on arrival have been the most clearcut and composed I have seen in Vendee arrivals.

 

A great teamwork, yes, but a great skipper first. Impressive.

 

Armel is from the same area as I am, definitely expressing our feelings is not our forte , leaving a cold and nearly harsh feeling, Only talking to Alex, man to man,did he looked as breaking armor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just been listening to AT's press conference - He is impressive and much more.....

 

 

AT stated he did not have a J1.

 

It would be really interesting to hear more about the respective sail inventories of AT & ALC - How they compare and why they made the choices they did.

 

Not just the codes of the sails but their areas and intended wind angles and strengths and how these fit with the different characteristics of the boats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So at least 3 boats this time round have had issues with the J1 hardware leading to loss of the sail: ALC, AT and Conrad Colman. For Colman (IIRC) this also acts as the forestay - not sure about the newer boats. That's nearly as many keels as dropped off last time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So what can we expect for the next VG, in the way of boat and foil development?

 

Perhaps some way of getting a foil to survive some impacts?, or a possible way for a solo sailor to replace a broken foil?

 

One of my first thoughts when Alex lost his foil was would it be possible to have the foil flip backwards into a slot, somewhat like a centreboard does in a dinghy, and/or have a hard rubber leading edge to absorb some of the impact? They have four years to work on this, let's hope we get some great ideas.

It is currently not permitted under the rules that any appendage is only allowed one axis/plane of movement. All of the foils are designed to move in and out. That is the only type of movement allowed, rotation backwards, while a potentially foil-saving attribute, is a second axis/plane of movement and therefore banned.

 

Hats off to all who participate in this race.

 

The standard of sailing and seamanship shown by ALC and AT is phenomenal.

Great interview with loick Peyron on yachting world. He says next generation for 2020 race should allow manual (not automated like AC) change to angle of foils. Would make the boats easier to sail and faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, indeed no foil :)

 

Nope, not even a stub 30% deployed! So I got that wrong!

 

I guess he must have had time to put the inflatable one away!

 

Well done ALC and AT! I'm going to miss this when it is finally over, but there are still boat racing for a while!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So at least 3 boats this time round have had issues with the J1 hardware leading to loss of the sail: ALC, AT and Conrad Colman. For Colman (IIRC) this also acts as the forestay - not sure about the newer boats. That's nearly as many keels as dropped off last time.

AT Never lost the sail IIRC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

So what can we expect for the next VG, in the way of boat and foil development?

 

Perhaps some way of getting a foil to survive some impacts?, or a possible way for a solo sailor to replace a broken foil?

 

One of my first thoughts when Alex lost his foil was would it be possible to have the foil flip backwards into a slot, somewhat like a centreboard does in a dinghy, and/or have a hard rubber leading edge to absorb some of the impact? They have four years to work on this, let's hope we get some great ideas.

It is currently not permitted under the rules that any appendage is only allowed one axis/plane of movement. All of the foils are designed to move in and out. That is the only type of movement allowed, rotation backwards, while a potentially foil-saving attribute, is a second axis/plane of movement and therefore banned.

 

Hats off to all who participate in this race.

 

The standard of sailing and seamanship shown by ALC and AT is phenomenal.

Great interview with loick Peyron on yachting world. He says next generation for 2020 race should allow manual (not automated like AC) change to angle of foils. Would make the boats easier to sail and faster.

 

They should consider having a non-foiling class of IMOCA60s, fast paced and technical development like this makes it so difficult for cash strapped teams to be competitive at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The polars were still a work in progress during the race but he figured 125% of polars on starboard tack and 83% on port.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AT didn't have a J1. But he didn't lose it. Can't lose what you don't take, LOL.

 

Ah gotcha - misunderstood the post then. But he did post a pic of a broken Karver furler (can't remember what sail it was from), so I think my more general point still stands - there's a pattern of failures at the front of the boat where headsails are attached.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also a big "no" to going narrow as the contingency, if the foil fails, must be in the hull form - wide and chined.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bravo ALC and AT. Awesome sailing. What a race!

 

That's two tight finish Vendées in a row.

 

Any mathmagicians out there who can quickly let us know the percentage delta between Gabart and ALC four years ago and ALC and AT this year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

I don't think that is a fair comparison. The VG boats and race is a continuous run and while we see two boats finish inside 80 days, a good number don't. The VORs have legs and given the new OD approach, race in close proximity for long distances. With a crew they are powered up 24/7 with no slacking of speed for sleep.

 

If you want the comparison, have the VOR65s race against an IMOCA on a RTW race and then compare.

 

 

What's racing in close proximity got to do with outright sailing performance?

 

Nothing much since it is One Design we are talking about. My point was not so much about design performance, but how the boat is raced. From what I could tell in the VG, there were times when boats sailed AP as the skipper slept which certainly had some impact on performance short term. Of course they had to, they need sleep, or time to repair shit. The nature of the race provided for that since everyone had to do this at some point. On a crewed vessel, there is no down time, it is foot to the floor and constant changes, because the boat near you is doing the same. Different style of racing. So while the IMOCAs may have the advantage in design, like foils, there seems to me more power up, power down as situations merit. Consider Alex's comment towards the end. He was done in and needed to throttle back just so he could sleep. Of course he did, but on a crewed boat that would not have happened.

 

Yes they are crewed 24/7 by 9 crew. If anything more vigilance should lend itself to less breakages.

 

As we saw in the last VOR, 7 boats entered, 7 finished granted one got rebuild and only sailed the last two legs. We lost one mast and thanks to major effort, got that boat back into the race. Otherwise, for the most part, the worst breakage was on sails and that from wipe outs. The VO65s seemed to be tanks compared to the IMOCAs, but again, different style of racing. The VORs climb up and down the globe multiple times and spend less time in the SO. They carry 9 people plus all that mass. I am glad they dropped the ME stop over and give a good endurance leg to Hong Kong. Interesting that the VORs did not seem to hit as many UFOs which took out a number of VG boats.

 

Put 9 crew on a foiling IMOCA 60 and you'll have your comparison which I'm pretty sure would leave the Volvo 65 behind.

 

I'd agree. Until that open wheel F1 hits a bump or gets a foil ripped off. I have no argument that a foil designed to help righting moment and even give lift to the hull is better than a dagger board, but as we saw a couple of times and HB being the biggest example, lose the foil, lose the advantage. Until they can figure a way to save them or carry spares, foils will be the achilles heel.

 

I realise that a one design fully crewed boat is a different animal to a semi development class like the IMOCA 60s.

 

It's my opinion that the Volvo race has embraced the one design ethic so roundly that we see a more exciting type of boat in the Vendee.

 

In the end, different strokes for different folks. I had my doubts about the VG, got bitch slapped in raising it, but in the end, grudgingly came around to noting the excitement factor. However, that came in part, because we had a good battle at the top and a fantastic tracker (thank you forss). When we lost the tracker and the boats got spread out, even people here admitted they were not checking in as much. it has already been commented on that now that the top guys have finished, and once that sub pack crosses there will be decreasing interest. Still, I better understand the race, for those who are really racing, not just adventuring, and I very much respect every sailor for this is both a mental and physical race. I'm not a speed junkie. Watching a line drawn on a computer screen telling me it went 534 nm in a day is a feat, but it is just a number to me. Someone will beat it, then again...Then we get multis that go even faster. What excites me is seeing multiple boats, equal in design, racing based first on the skill of the crew. They could be VO65s, they could be M32s, they could be Buccaneer 18s or J24s. That is the style of racing that excites me so if the VO65 is average 3-5 kts slower, I don't care.

 

There is no question the IMOCA foilers are sexy and they can be exciting to watch (in the rare moments we as spectators get to see them), but I cannot forget the Cape Horn shots of the VOR boats, I think it was Brunel with three foresails and it's main out surfing on waves, burying the nose. Looked damn exciting to me. In four years, life willing I'll watch again the VG, especially if Alex and Hugo Boss are there.

 

We're not going to agree, but I'll just toss out my thoughts and hope people read in the respect I give the sailors in the VG. I am converted enough to appreciate the racing aspect and will look forward to what transcends into the 2020 VG.

 

Well done Alex and Hugo Boss for an amazing effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

So, a morning watching TV after an afternoon doing same, unproductivity rules;

 

I have been following Alex ever since he joined the Imoca classs, and for other reasons had heard of him before.

 

The stengthening of his latest campaign was obvious, but in this arrival the man has stricken me even more than on the vids, he looked extremely mature, obviously having gained "thickness". His interviews on arrival have been the most clearcut and composed I have seen in Vendee arrivals.

 

A great teamwork, yes, but a great skipper first. Impressive.

 

Armel is from the same area as I am, definitely expressing our feelings is not our forte , leaving a cold and nearly harsh feeling, Only talking to Alex, man to man,did he looked as breaking armor.

 

Well, he broke his armour actually twice. He broke into tears during the first interview on the bow of his boat (before the channel) when asked after the stress he had endured, see the video (French only) here in the first minute. Worth watching for all who want to see the human side of Armel. Hopefully someone can give a translation of that piece of the interview.

 

Here is the first part (I'll do the rest when the VG video stops freezing at 1'10")

News-hungry journo: “So, right now, what do you feel?”

Armel *big smile* “It’s huge. Incredible. I don’t really realize yet what’s happened to me. The last few days have been very intense, so, yeah, there… I realize I’ve achieved something enormous, and it’s fantastic “(smiles).

NHJ: “Did you have days with tension, stress?”

ALC: “I gave away nothing. Not one metre. It was… Every metre is so hard won, and…*pause, emotion* I wanted that victory so badly! *tears* voila, I’ve succeeded. *more tears* I’m so happy. There.”

NHJ: “Did you have doubts after Cape Horn, when Alex came back?”

ALC: “Well, *tears*, sorry, *pause* the weather really wasn’t easy. *Coughs*. I had the impression everything was against me. And then I worked hard (literally: I hung on) and it worked out OK. I really fought hard and had a lot of good support from people; they sent me messages telling me don’t give up, hang in there (wipes tears), and I really believed in it. Finally I only started seeing victory last night, after Ushant. I knew then that I had it, all I had to do was get to the finish. On top of that I was in my home territory, in an area I know really well, so I got a lot of pleasure from that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Next part:

 

ALC: "I really didn’t have an easy ride up the Atlantic. I was 800 miles ahead at Cape Horn, and Alex came back to within 40 miles. I don’t think I made too many mistakes, the weather just wasn’t in my favour and it’s tough to deal with that. But I didn’t give up, and now… today’s great. I’m super happy”

 

NHJ: "What do you take away from this VG, apart from your magnificent victory?"

 

ALC: " Well it was intense right from the beginning all the way to the end. I feel as if I left yesterday. Really didn’t see time pass, there was no break, no respite. Maybe after Cape Horn when I was ahead I perhaps gave myself a couple of hours to relax, but right after that the weather was not good so I had to concentrate again quickly.

Also this is my third (VG) and I knew this was the one I needed to go and get, so I really wanted to go all out. I told myself this is my chance. It wasn’t easy 4 years ago, and I wanted to avoid the same thing again so badly that I really fought all the way to the end."

 

Other NHJ: you haven’t communicated much on this, but did you have technical problems?

 

ALC: no major problems that handicapped me. The only significant one was the hook on my J1, which broke in the Pacific so I couldn’t use the sail after that. It’s a useful sail close-hauled in lighter winds, but I had a Code 0 so I could more or less compensate. Unfortunately after that I learned the other hooks were made the same way, so there was a chance they would fail too. So I had that threat hanging over me during that part of the VG until the finish, hoping that the other parts wouldn't fail. So I had to preserve the gear, avoid putting too much stress on the gear when things got intense, to prevent further breakage".

 

NHJ: "did you get some pleasure from the duel with Alex?

 

ALC: Yes, there was pleasure in the fight, also in the weather routing and strategy, I took a lot of pleasure in the Pacific in particular. I felt I was in sync with the weather, the strategy was going well. Cape Horn was a super moment, and then the arrival was really great. Also a lot of messages from people.

 

NHJ: a word about your challenger, Alex Thomson? He really gave you a hard time, didn't he?

 

ALC: Yes, he ran a super race. I knew he was one of the serious contenders, Fearsome competitor, and feared! He had some good conditions in the Atlantic to close in on me. I really thought I had made the break, and that wasn't the case. So I had to hang on right up to the very end.

 

(Section in English, comments on Alex, good boat, good speed reaching, gave Armel a tough time).

 

NHJ: After 74 days at sea, what does one need?

 

ALC (picking up his kids) "These guys here!"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great, thank you Pierre!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

Jim Young (NZ) designed and built a canting keel boat in the 50s, named Fiery Cross.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just dug into a rabbit hole, fascinating canting shit all the way back to the 40s. Imagine what our sailboats would look like if
US governments forced all the kids to learn how to sail in physical education class and American companies competed against each other to sponsor the best offshore racing team and tech development program?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Now that the first two are in under the previous record, how would those with better weather knowledge rate their run?

 

Did they get ideal weather?

 

Could they get a better weather and really beat the record again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the Brits don't get fired up after that presser with Alex, I don't know what will. I hope they're back with a big team next time. Also would be cool to see some of the top AC / Olympic sailors make the jump to ocean racing. Could maybe interest some potential sponsors, although i guess there is only Sir Ben who has brand value.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the Brits don't get fired up after that presser with Alex, I don't know what will. I hope they're back with a big team next time. Also would be cool to see some of the top AC / Olympic sailors make the jump to ocean racing. Could maybe interest some potential sponsors, although i guess there is only Sir Ben who has brand value.

 

Is there a replay of the presser available?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If the Brits don't get fired up after that presser with Alex, I don't know what will. I hope they're back with a big team next time. Also would be cool to see some of the top AC / Olympic sailors make the jump to ocean racing. Could maybe interest some potential sponsors, although i guess there is only Sir Ben who has brand value.

Is there a replay of the presser available?

 

blob:http://www.dailymotion.com/fed8e63a-f719-4997-98dc-c529d9b64168

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If the Brits don't get fired up after that presser with Alex, I don't know what will. I hope they're back with a big team next time. Also would be cool to see some of the top AC / Olympic sailors make the jump to ocean racing. Could maybe interest some potential sponsors, although i guess there is only Sir Ben who has brand value.

Is there a replay of the presser available?

 

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5940go_d75-alex-thomson-s-press-conference-vendee-globe_sport

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

 

I remember going down to the docks in La Rochelle in the early 90s. There was a whole bunch of Minis rafted up together with lots of youngish sailors getting ready for a passage race. Isabelle Autissier was one of them. A French business associate started describing the canting keels that had been fitted to a number of them and how successful the development had been. The canards with their strings and shock cords, the canting keel and it's winch and lines all looked like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, every time you tacked. I got a ride on one and being a J24 sailor at the time we sailed the boat first with the keel straight and then wound the keel over. It was like 5 blokes suddenly appeared on the rail to sit her up. It wasn't experimental, it worked and you had to have one to be competitive in the Protos. A lot of developments, once proven, found their way onto the open 60s. Pete Goss may lay claim to a 1st but all those Mini sailors, sailing many miles offshore, did the development for him.

 

I think this French development mentality comes not so much from government money but from the national psyche. They celebrate design and innovation in everyday life. Even in Nelson's day the British acknowledged the innovation in French ship building.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can anyone link to the interviews sans french translation over the top?

 

Don't worry - found it.

Edited by tigrah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

 

I remember going down to the docks in La Rochelle in the early 90s. There was a whole bunch of Minis rafted up together with lots of youngish sailors getting ready for a passage race. Isabelle Autissier was one of them. A French business associate started describing the canting keels that had been fitted to a number of them and how successful the development had been. The canards with their strings and shock cords, the canting keel and it's winch and lines all looked like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, every time you tacked. I got a ride on one and being a J24 sailor at the time we sailed the boat first with the keel straight and then wound the keel over. It was like 5 blokes suddenly appeared on the rail to sit her up. It wasn't experimental, it worked and you had to have one to be competitive in the Protos. A lot of developments, once proven, found their way onto the open 60s. Pete Goss may lay claim to a 1st but all those Mini sailors, sailing many miles offshore, did the development for him.

 

I think this French development mentality comes not so much from government money but from the national psyche. They celebrate design and innovation in everyday life. Even in Nelson's day the British acknowledged the innovation in French ship building.

 

A recent interview on French tv compared AT to ALC, plenty of unfair but revealing clichés were spoken, but one that you will instantly recognize is that of the "Engineer", no prizes for guessing to who they were referring.

Of course, this is why paradoxically, Alex Thomson and the Hugo Boss team are so deeply admired and appreciated in France too! Innovative lot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

 

I remember going down to the docks in La Rochelle in the early 90s. There was a whole bunch of Minis rafted up together with lots of youngish sailors getting ready for a passage race. Isabelle Autissier was one of them. A French business associate started describing the canting keels that had been fitted to a number of them and how successful the development had been. The canards with their strings and shock cords, the canting keel and it's winch and lines all looked like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, every time you tacked. I got a ride on one and being a J24 sailor at the time we sailed the boat first with the keel straight and then wound the keel over. It was like 5 blokes suddenly appeared on the rail to sit her up. It wasn't experimental, it worked and you had to have one to be competitive in the Protos. A lot of developments, once proven, found their way onto the open 60s. Pete Goss may lay claim to a 1st but all those Mini sailors, sailing many miles offshore, did the development for him.

 

I think this French development mentality comes not so much from government money but from the national psyche. They celebrate design and innovation in everyday life. Even in Nelson's day the British acknowledged the innovation in French ship building.

 

A recent interview on French tv compared AT to ALC, plenty of unfair but revealing clichés were spoken, but one that you will instantly recognize is that of the "Engineer", no prizes for guessing to who they were referring.

Of course, this is why paradoxically, Alex Thomson and the Hugo Boss team are so deeply admired and appreciated in France too! Innovative lot.

 

 

Currently, that French design ascendancy is pretty much lead by one design office - VPLP/Verdier.

 

From record holding 100 and 60 foot monos through to a bunch of big, super fast Multis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just finished watching the various interviews with AT. Wow, any pro sport would super fortunate to have a guy like that as a representative, what an attitude, articulate; great media personality with just a touch of showbiz on top of a heap of humble gratitude. He does all of sailing a great service.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AT's Karver furler did not fail - it was beaten to death flogging about the foredeck when the 3:1 tackle underneath it broke away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
SNIP

 

It would be really interesting to hear more about the respective sail inventories of AT & ALC - How they compare and why they made the choices they did.

 

Not just the codes of the sails but their areas and intended wind angles and strengths and how these fit with the different characteristics of the boats.

I asked a similar question in the thread about questions to ask ALC. I saw one vid where ALC was flying what looked like a screecher and working jib with at least one reef in the main. I tend to fly a full main and working jib and take the screecher down; but what do I know. When Donna and Yann bought the older BP they shortened the mast, which I guess means the reefs mean even less sail area than with a taller mast. So in addition to the questions in the quote above I would be interested in knowing how sail selection is related to putting reef in the main.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the Brits don't get fired up after that presser with Alex, I don't know what will. I hope they're back with a big team next time. Also would be cool to see some of the top AC / Olympic sailors make the jump to ocean racing. Could maybe interest some potential sponsors, although i guess there is only Sir Ben who has brand value.

 

We'll see...

 

If the intransigence down here in Cornwall ( Ben's nursery) is anything to go by it will take a long time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

SNIP

 

It would be really interesting to hear more about the respective sail inventories of AT & ALC - How they compare and why they made the choices they did.

 

Not just the codes of the sails but their areas and intended wind angles and strengths and how these fit with the different characteristics of the boats.

I asked a similar question in the thread about questions to ask ALC. I saw one vid where ALC was flying what looked like a screecher and working jib with at least one reef in the main. I tend to fly a full main and working jib and take the screecher down; but what do I know. When Donna and Yann bought the older BP they shortened the mast, which I guess means the reefs mean even less sail area than with a taller mast. So in addition to the questions in the quote above I would be interested in knowing how sail selection is related to putting reef in the main.

 

 

Give us the juice xxx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

So, a morning watching TV after an afternoon doing same, unproductivity rules;

 

I have been following Alex ever since he joined the Imoca classs, and for other reasons had heard of him before.

 

The stengthening of his latest campaign was obvious, but in this arrival the man has stricken me even more than on the vids, he looked extremely mature, obviously having gained "thickness". His interviews on arrival have been the most clearcut and composed I have seen in Vendee arrivals.

 

A great teamwork, yes, but a great skipper first. Impressive.

 

Armel is from the same area as I am, definitely expressing our feelings is not our forte , leaving a cold and nearly harsh feeling, Only talking to Alex, man to man,did he looked as breaking armor.

Well, he broke his armour actually twice. He broke into tears during the first interview on the bow of his boat (before the channel) when asked after the stress he had endured, see the video (French only) here in the first minute. Worth watching for all who want to see the human side of Armel. Hopefully someone can give a translation of that piece of the interview.

Here is the first part (I'll do the rest when the VG video stops freezing at 1'10")

News-hungry journo: “So, right now, what do you feel?”

Armel *big smile* “It’s huge. Incredible. I don’t really realize yet what’s happened to me. The last few days have been very intense, so, yeah, there… I realize I’ve achieved something enormous, and it’s fantastic “(smiles).

NHJ: “Did you have days with tension, stress?”

ALC: “I gave away nothing. Not one metre. It was… Every metre is so hard won, and…*pause, emotion* I wanted that victory so badly! *tears* voila, I’ve succeeded. *more tears* I’m so happy. There.”

NHJ: “Did you have doubts after Cape Horn, when Alex came back?”

ALC: “Well, *tears*, sorry, *pause* the weather really wasn’t easy. *Coughs*. I had the impression everything was against me. And then I worked hard (literally: I hung on) and it worked out OK. I really fought hard and had a lot of good support from people; they sent me messages telling me don’t give up, hang in there (wipes tears), and I really believed in it. Finally I only started seeing victory last night, after Ushant. I knew then that I had it, all I had to do was get to the finish. On top of that I was in my home territory, in an area I know really well, so I got a lot of pleasure from that.

Merci bien! I saw his emotion, but a lot got lost in translation for me. So stop calling him a robot please SA.

 

 

Agree

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just finished watching the various interviews with AT. Wow, any pro sport would super fortunate to have a guy like that as a representative, what an attitude, articulate; great media personality with just a touch of showbiz on top of a heap of humble gratitude. He does all of sailing a great service.

 

And finally for today.

 

Perhaps sailing can be a lesson for formula one and professional football (soccer) et al. Perhaps our sport can be on the front page.

 

£25 or 50 pounds an hour for a 70 day race after costs would be ok...............

 

No?

 

Of cause/course the faster you go the less you get paid :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would good heaters on the boats make the sailer more efficient and able to think better and work harder and so sail faster?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites