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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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AT's Karver furler did not fail - it was beaten to death flogging about the foredeck when the 3:1 tackle underneath it broke away.

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SNIP

 

It would be really interesting to hear more about the respective sail inventories of AT & ALC - How they compare and why they made the choices they did.

 

Not just the codes of the sails but their areas and intended wind angles and strengths and how these fit with the different characteristics of the boats.

I asked a similar question in the thread about questions to ask ALC. I saw one vid where ALC was flying what looked like a screecher and working jib with at least one reef in the main. I tend to fly a full main and working jib and take the screecher down; but what do I know. When Donna and Yann bought the older BP they shortened the mast, which I guess means the reefs mean even less sail area than with a taller mast. So in addition to the questions in the quote above I would be interested in knowing how sail selection is related to putting reef in the main.

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If the Brits don't get fired up after that presser with Alex, I don't know what will. I hope they're back with a big team next time. Also would be cool to see some of the top AC / Olympic sailors make the jump to ocean racing. Could maybe interest some potential sponsors, although i guess there is only Sir Ben who has brand value.

 

We'll see...

 

If the intransigence down here in Cornwall ( Ben's nursery) is anything to go by it will take a long time.

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SNIP

 

It would be really interesting to hear more about the respective sail inventories of AT & ALC - How they compare and why they made the choices they did.

 

Not just the codes of the sails but their areas and intended wind angles and strengths and how these fit with the different characteristics of the boats.

I asked a similar question in the thread about questions to ask ALC. I saw one vid where ALC was flying what looked like a screecher and working jib with at least one reef in the main. I tend to fly a full main and working jib and take the screecher down; but what do I know. When Donna and Yann bought the older BP they shortened the mast, which I guess means the reefs mean even less sail area than with a taller mast. So in addition to the questions in the quote above I would be interested in knowing how sail selection is related to putting reef in the main.

 

 

Give us the juice xxx

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So, a morning watching TV after an afternoon doing same, unproductivity rules;

 

I have been following Alex ever since he joined the Imoca classs, and for other reasons had heard of him before.

 

The stengthening of his latest campaign was obvious, but in this arrival the man has stricken me even more than on the vids, he looked extremely mature, obviously having gained "thickness". His interviews on arrival have been the most clearcut and composed I have seen in Vendee arrivals.

 

A great teamwork, yes, but a great skipper first. Impressive.

 

Armel is from the same area as I am, definitely expressing our feelings is not our forte , leaving a cold and nearly harsh feeling, Only talking to Alex, man to man,did he looked as breaking armor.

Well, he broke his armour actually twice. He broke into tears during the first interview on the bow of his boat (before the channel) when asked after the stress he had endured, see the video (French only) here in the first minute. Worth watching for all who want to see the human side of Armel. Hopefully someone can give a translation of that piece of the interview.

Here is the first part (I'll do the rest when the VG video stops freezing at 1'10")

News-hungry journo: “So, right now, what do you feel?”

Armel *big smile* “It’s huge. Incredible. I don’t really realize yet what’s happened to me. The last few days have been very intense, so, yeah, there… I realize I’ve achieved something enormous, and it’s fantastic “(smiles).

NHJ: “Did you have days with tension, stress?”

ALC: “I gave away nothing. Not one metre. It was… Every metre is so hard won, and…*pause, emotion* I wanted that victory so badly! *tears* voila, I’ve succeeded. *more tears* I’m so happy. There.”

NHJ: “Did you have doubts after Cape Horn, when Alex came back?”

ALC: “Well, *tears*, sorry, *pause* the weather really wasn’t easy. *Coughs*. I had the impression everything was against me. And then I worked hard (literally: I hung on) and it worked out OK. I really fought hard and had a lot of good support from people; they sent me messages telling me don’t give up, hang in there (wipes tears), and I really believed in it. Finally I only started seeing victory last night, after Ushant. I knew then that I had it, all I had to do was get to the finish. On top of that I was in my home territory, in an area I know really well, so I got a lot of pleasure from that.

Merci bien! I saw his emotion, but a lot got lost in translation for me. So stop calling him a robot please SA.

 

 

Agree

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Just finished watching the various interviews with AT. Wow, any pro sport would super fortunate to have a guy like that as a representative, what an attitude, articulate; great media personality with just a touch of showbiz on top of a heap of humble gratitude. He does all of sailing a great service.

 

And finally for today.

 

Perhaps sailing can be a lesson for formula one and professional football (soccer) et al. Perhaps our sport can be on the front page.

 

£25 or 50 pounds an hour for a 70 day race after costs would be ok...............

 

No?

 

Of cause/course the faster you go the less you get paid :)

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Would good heaters on the boats make the sailer more efficient and able to think better and work harder and so sail faster?

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I was wondering how close this finish is when compared to other top level sports; Formula 1 for example.

 

Some back of the beer mat calcs say that 15 minutes in the Vendee is broadly similar to 1 second in F1... Say Alec is six hours back that puts him 24 seconds down in F1 terms.. Quite comparable in terms of performance differential. What say you all ?

 

Le Mans (endurance racing) would be a better comparison, no?

 

Paris-Dakar

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Would good heaters on the boats make the sailer more efficient and able to think better and work harder and so sail faster?

 

 

Heat = Energy.... Energy = Heat. Not going to happen. All the energy packed on the boat is for food or people fuel. Food value is measured in calories. The same with energy.

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Would good heaters on the boats make the sailer more efficient and able to think better and work harder and so sail faster?

 

Heat = Energy.... Energy = Heat. Not going to happen. All the energy packed on the boat is for food or people fuel. Food value is measured in calories. The same with energy.

You can get around that to some extent with heat pumps, which can in the right circumstances be a lot more efficient than resistance heating elements. You can also reverse the heat pump for a/c in the tropics.

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The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

 

I remember going down to the docks in La Rochelle in the early 90s. There was a whole bunch of Minis rafted up together with lots of youngish sailors getting ready for a passage race. Isabelle Autissier was one of them. A French business associate started describing the canting keels that had been fitted to a number of them and how successful the development had been. The canards with their strings and shock cords, the canting keel and it's winch and lines all looked like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, every time you tacked. I got a ride on one and being a J24 sailor at the time we sailed the boat first with the keel straight and then wound the keel over. It was like 5 blokes suddenly appeared on the rail to sit her up. It wasn't experimental, it worked and you had to have one to be competitive in the Protos. A lot of developments, once proven, found their way onto the open 60s. Pete Goss may lay claim to a 1st but all those Mini sailors, sailing many miles offshore, did the development for him.

 

I think this French development mentality comes not so much from government money but from the national psyche. They celebrate design and innovation in everyday life. Even in Nelson's day the British acknowledged the innovation in French ship building.

 

A recent interview on French tv compared AT to ALC, plenty of unfair but revealing clichés were spoken, but one that you will instantly recognize is that of the "Engineer", no prizes for guessing to who they were referring.

Of course, this is why paradoxically, Alex Thomson and the Hugo Boss team are so deeply admired and appreciated in France too! Innovative lot.

 

 

Currently, that French design ascendancy is pretty much lead by one design office - VPLP/Verdier.

 

From record holding 100 and 60 foot monos through to a bunch of big, super fast Multis.

 

Thought the CBTF was a US patent

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Would good heaters on the boats make the sailer more efficient and able to think better and work harder and so sail faster?

 

Heat = Energy.... Energy = Heat. Not going to happen. All the energy packed on the boat is for food or people fuel. Food value is measured in calories. The same with energy.

Keeping the sailor dry and warm would to some extent lessen the need for food, but I guess heating up the cabin is not the most efficient way to deal with that problem.

 

Another thing I wonder about is how this constant brutal noise impacts the mind. Obviously adding sound insulation would add quite a lot of weight.

 

Anyways one would think that doing research on these kind of guinea pigs would be interesting for a lot of reasons

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The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

 

I remember going down to the docks in La Rochelle in the early 90s. There was a whole bunch of Minis rafted up together with lots of youngish sailors getting ready for a passage race. Isabelle Autissier was one of them. A French business associate started describing the canting keels that had been fitted to a number of them and how successful the development had been. The canards with their strings and shock cords, the canting keel and it's winch and lines all looked like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, every time you tacked. I got a ride on one and being a J24 sailor at the time we sailed the boat first with the keel straight and then wound the keel over. It was like 5 blokes suddenly appeared on the rail to sit her up. It wasn't experimental, it worked and you had to have one to be competitive in the Protos. A lot of developments, once proven, found their way onto the open 60s. Pete Goss may lay claim to a 1st but all those Mini sailors, sailing many miles offshore, did the development for him.

 

I think this French development mentality comes not so much from government money but from the national psyche. They celebrate design and innovation in everyday life. Even in Nelson's day the British acknowledged the innovation in French ship building.

 

 

 

Who invented it, who knows, lost in history, its such a simple concept.

I think 5 minutes after inventing the ballast keel.

 

Young put one first on a cruising yacht, a big feat in the 50's

Red Herring was the first yacht designed around canting keel concept, 80's

Mich Desjoyeaux put one on a mini and crossed on ocean with it. And did race hard. 89.

Isabelle Autissier first on Imoca getting it out of the then obscure mini scene. 93

(no Pete Goss, his claim for engineering fame could be Team Phillips cat)

 

Hey Tricky, was there too, as one of the young guys. Exciting times.

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The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

 

I remember going down to the docks in La Rochelle in the early 90s. There was a whole bunch of Minis rafted up together with lots of youngish sailors getting ready for a passage race. Isabelle Autissier was one of them. A French business associate started describing the canting keels that had been fitted to a number of them and how successful the development had been. The canards with their strings and shock cords, the canting keel and it's winch and lines all looked like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, every time you tacked. I got a ride on one and being a J24 sailor at the time we sailed the boat first with the keel straight and then wound the keel over. It was like 5 blokes suddenly appeared on the rail to sit her up. It wasn't experimental, it worked and you had to have one to be competitive in the Protos. A lot of developments, once proven, found their way onto the open 60s. Pete Goss may lay claim to a 1st but all those Mini sailors, sailing many miles offshore, did the development for him.

 

I think this French development mentality comes not so much from government money but from the national psyche. They celebrate design and innovation in everyday life. Even in Nelson's day the British acknowledged the innovation in French ship building.

 

 

 

Who invented it, who knows, lost in history, its such a simple concept.

I think 5 minutes after inventing the ballast keel.

 

Young put one first on a cruising yacht, a big feat in the 50's

Red Herring was the first yacht designed around canting keel concept, 80's

Mich Desjoyeaux put one on a mini and crossed on ocean with it. And did race hard. 89.

Isabelle Autissier first on Imoca getting it out of the then obscure mini scene. 93

(no Pete Goss, his claim for engineering fame could be Team Phillips cat)

 

Hey Tricky, was there too, as one of the young guys. Exciting times.

 

 

I guess that the thing is that a canting keel is an obvious answer to the need to have a light but powerful boat (keel).

No need to have listened much to the Physics teacher to understand that.

 

But for it to raise you need a Restriction Class with the adequate loopholes.

 

Back in the late 70's early 80's, France had an active development inshore class called the MIcro 5.5 (http://micro-class.org)

Very cheap to build and cheap to run, it allowed the young crews to sail on their own (e.g Kito de Pavant, the Desjoyeaux brothers and many others), but also wannabe designers to show that they had bright ideas.

In the 1982 edition a young architecture student entered a new design with..... a canting keel. He was named Pascal Conq and would join Finot design 3 years later !

They had so-so results in a class where the 3 crew provide most of the RM, still everybody had seen her..

 

 

So that would make Leo's list:

 

Young put one first on a cruising yacht, a big feat in the 50's

Red Herring was the first yacht designed around canting keel concept, 80's

Pascal Conq tries it on a micro-cupper "Urgent" in 1982

Mich Desjoyeaux put one on a mini and crossed on ocean with it. And did race hard. 89.

Isabelle Autissier first on Imoca getting it out of the then obscure mini scene. 93 on a Finot design - Pascal Conq is now Finot's chief designer.

 

;)

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The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

The French benefit by having public, governmental, and commercial support so they can afford to develop these things properly. The rest of us have to rely on the billionaire hobbyists of the America's Cup and point-to-point offshore racing for all of our development.

 

Interesting how much the French sailing scene influences modern yacht design. Most of us Anglophiles won't admit it but canting keels, chines and helm protection seem to come from or be developed by the French.

 

The Volvos 65s are looking very conservative and really don't cover much more ground in 24 hrs than the shorter IMOCA 60 with one bloke aboard.

 

I remember going down to the docks in La Rochelle in the early 90s. There was a whole bunch of Minis rafted up together with lots of youngish sailors getting ready for a passage race. Isabelle Autissier was one of them. A French business associate started describing the canting keels that had been fitted to a number of them and how successful the development had been. The canards with their strings and shock cords, the canting keel and it's winch and lines all looked like rubbing your stomach and patting your head, every time you tacked. I got a ride on one and being a J24 sailor at the time we sailed the boat first with the keel straight and then wound the keel over. It was like 5 blokes suddenly appeared on the rail to sit her up. It wasn't experimental, it worked and you had to have one to be competitive in the Protos. A lot of developments, once proven, found their way onto the open 60s. Pete Goss may lay claim to a 1st but all those Mini sailors, sailing many miles offshore, did the development for him.

 

I think this French development mentality comes not so much from government money but from the national psyche. They celebrate design and innovation in everyday life. Even in Nelson's day the British acknowledged the innovation in French ship building.

 

 

 

Who invented it, who knows, lost in history, its such a simple concept.

I think 5 minutes after inventing the ballast keel.

 

Young put one first on a cruising yacht, a big feat in the 50's

Red Herring was the first yacht designed around canting keel concept, 80's

Mich Desjoyeaux put one on a mini and crossed on ocean with it. And did race hard. 89.

Isabelle Autissier first on Imoca getting it out of the then obscure mini scene. 93

(no Pete Goss, his claim for engineering fame could be Team Phillips cat)

 

Hey Tricky, was there too, as one of the young guys. Exciting times.

 

 

I guess that the thing is that a canting keel is an obvious answer to the need to have a light but powerful boat (keel).

No need to have listened much to the Physics teacher to understand that.

 

But for it to raise you need a Restriction Class with the adequate loopholes.

 

Back in the late 70's early 80's, France had an active development inshore class called the MIcro 5.5 (http://micro-class.org)

Very cheap to build and cheap to run, it allowed the young crews to sail on their own (e.g Kito de Pavant, the Desjoyeaux brothers and many others), but also wannabe designers to show that they had bright ideas.

In the 1982 edition a young architecture student entered a new design with..... a canting keel. He was named Pascal Conq and would join Finot design 3 years later !

They had so-so results in a class where the 3 crew provide most of the RM, still everybody had seen her..

 

 

So that would make Leo's list:

 

Young put one first on a cruising yacht, a big feat in the 50's

Red Herring was the first yacht designed around canting keel concept, 80's

Pascal Conq tries it on a micro-cupper "Urgent" in 1982

Mich Desjoyeaux put one on a mini and crossed on ocean with it. And did race hard. 89.

Isabelle Autissier first on Imoca getting it out of the then obscure mini scene. 93 on a Finot design - Pascal Conq is now Finot's chief designer.

 

;)

 

Thanks for that bit of history. Pascal Conq went on to partner Jean Marie Finot in many ground breaking designs but I never knew this bit about the Micro 5.5 Finot Conq website

post-14496-0-71683300-1484997903_thumb.jpg

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Just finished watching the various interviews with AT. Wow, any pro sport would super fortunate to have a guy like that as a representative, what an attitude, articulate; great media personality with just a touch of showbiz on top of a heap of humble gratitude. He does all of sailing a great service.

+1

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Beyou with Maitre Coq is nearly home, for the 3rd spot, but there is a spectacular home run happening for 5th, 6th and 7th spot, (edit!) neck and neck, Jean le Cam, Elies and JP Dick, or are they just hanging out as a flottila to take it easy?.

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The missing foil (did SA make it famous?)

 

https://twitter.com/Ginie_Valentini/status/822371360395513857

Make that infamous :D

 

 

Haha. That's right.

 

Gotta say, impressive surgical skills by Alex! He did that hanging off the boat?

 

And Herman, thank you for everything you've contributed during this race. Hats off to you, along with forss and the others who've spent countless hours to enrich our experience and understanding during the race.

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Beyou with Maitre Coq is nearly home, for the 3rd spot, but there is a spectacular home run happening for 5th, 6th and 7th spot, (edit!) neck and neck, Jean le Cam, Elies and JP Dick, or are they just hanging out as a flottila to take it easy?.

 

I would definitely rule this out, Yann Elies is certainly fighting hard for 4th, while JLC appears to have been smoothing his course to try and outsmart Yann, but... JPD who gave away a number of miles these last days in creating a NW separation looks to have - in the latest sched - switched gears into foiling mode !!!

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Beyou with Maitre Coq is nearly home, for the 3rd spot, but there is a spectacular home run happening for 5th, 6th and 7th spot, (edit!) neck and neck, Jean le Cam, Elies and JP Dick, or are they just hanging out as a flottila to take it easy?.

 

Place your bets...

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So, a morning watching TV after an afternoon doing same, unproductivity rules;

 

I have been following Alex ever since he joined the Imoca classs, and for other reasons had heard of him before.

 

The stengthening of his latest campaign was obvious, but in this arrival the man has stricken me even more than on the vids, he looked extremely mature, obviously having gained "thickness". His interviews on arrival have been the most clearcut and composed I have seen in Vendee arrivals.

 

A great teamwork, yes, but a great skipper first. Impressive.

 

Armel is from the same area as I am, definitely expressing our feelings is not our forte , leaving a cold and nearly harsh feeling, Only talking to Alex, man to man,did he looked as breaking armor.

Well, he broke his armour actually twice. He broke into tears during the first interview on the bow of his boat (before the channel) when asked after the stress he had endured, see the video (French only) here in the first minute. Worth watching for all who want to see the human side of Armel. Hopefully someone can give a translation of that piece of the interview.

 

Here is the first part (I'll do the rest when the VG video stops freezing at 1'10")

News-hungry journo: So, right now, what do you feel?

Armel *big smile* Its huge. Incredible. I dont really realize yet whats happened to me. The last few days have been very intense, so, yeah, there I realize Ive achieved something enormous, and its fantastic (smiles).

NHJ: Did you have days with tension, stress?

ALC: I gave away nothing. Not one metre. It was Every metre is so hard won, and*pause, emotion* I wanted that victory so badly! *tears* voila, Ive succeeded. *more tears* Im so happy. There.

NHJ: Did you have doubts after Cape Horn, when Alex came back?

ALC: Well, *tears*, sorry, *pause* the weather really wasnt easy. *Coughs*. I had the impression everything was against me. And then I worked hard (literally: I hung on) and it worked out OK. I really fought hard and had a lot of good support from people; they sent me messages telling me dont give up, hang in there (wipes tears), and I really believed in it. Finally I only started seeing victory last night, after Ushant. I knew then that I had it, all I had to do was get to the finish. On top of that I was in my home territory, in an area I know really well, so I got a lot of pleasure from that.

 

Merci bien! I saw his emotion, but a lot got lost in translation for me. So stop calling him a robot please SA.

 

post-17796-0-91690400-1485007112_thumb.jpg

This emotion is good enough for me. And when he burst in tears remember he was very tired.

Sleep deprevation is a serious illness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_deprivation

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Looking at the race course once more. 3rd is obvious. Can JPD keep 4th, or will JLC take that place from him?

 

Conrad still stuck, catching Eric is difficult that way. =)

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Looking at the race course once more. 3rd is obvious. Can JPD keep 4th, or will JLC take that place from him?

 

Conrad still stuck, catching Eric is difficult that way. =)

 

Looks like JPD has the upper hand again. But he should have blitzed these guys long ago. There's an untold story right there, for sure.

post-76289-0-50809200-1485025012_thumb.png

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Looking at the race course once more. 3rd is obvious. Can JPD keep 4th, or will JLC take that place from him?

 

Conrad still stuck, catching Eric is difficult that way. =)

 

Looks like JPD has the upper hand again. But he should have blitzed these guys long ago. There's an untold story right there, for sure.

 

He's the only competitive foiler left in the race.

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Looking at the race course once more. 3rd is obvious. Can JPD keep 4th, or will JLC take that place from him?

 

Conrad still stuck, catching Eric is difficult that way. =)

 

Looks like JPD has the upper hand again. But he should have blitzed these guys long ago. There's an untold story right there, for sure.

 

He's the only competitive foiler left in the race.

 

 

Competitive? Not so much, sadly.

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Looking at the race course once more. 3rd is obvious. Can JPD keep 4th, or will JLC take that place from him?

 

Conrad still stuck, catching Eric is difficult that way. =)

Looks like JPD has the upper hand again. But he should have blitzed these guys long ago. There's an untold story right there, for sure.

He's the only competitive foiler left in the race.

Competitive? Not so much, sadly.

4th out of 29 after 30,000 miles. Pretty competitive in my book.

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Looking at the race course once more. 3rd is obvious. Can JPD keep 4th, or will JLC take that place from him?

 

Conrad still stuck, catching Eric is difficult that way. =)

Looks like JPD has the upper hand again. But he should have blitzed these guys long ago. There's an untold story right there, for sure.

He's the only competitive foiler left in the race.

Competitive? Not so much, sadly.

4th out of 29 after 30,000 miles. Pretty competitive in my book.

 

 

Competitive with the rest of the fleet for sure, but only just when compared with the first six boats - and two of those are older generation non-foilers.

All I'm saying is there's definitely a speed deficit with that boat. I'm just unsure why.

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Would good heaters on the boats make the sailer more efficient and able to think better and work harder and so sail faster?

 

Heat = Energy.... Energy = Heat. Not going to happen. All the energy packed on the boat is for food or people fuel. Food value is measured in calories. The same with energy.

Keeping the sailor dry and warm would to some extent lessen the need for food, but I guess heating up the cabin is not the most efficient way to deal with that problem.

Another thing I wonder about is how this constant brutal noise impacts the mind. Obviously adding sound insulation would add quite a lot of weight.

Anyways one would think that doing research on these kind of guinea pigs would be interesting for a lot of reasons

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

Well it doesn't really work like that, because the water ballast can be dumped when not needed.

Some of the skippers, Armel included, choose to take diesel heaters. Others, like Alex, feel that it not necessary enough to warrant the extra weight.

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

Well it doesn't really work like that, because the water ballast can be dumped when not needed.

Some of the skippers, Armel included, choose to take diesel heaters. Others, like Alex, feel that it not necessary enough to warrant the extra weight.

 

A small Refleks or Dikinson space heater would work great and use 0 electricity. Say it is needed for 40 days it would require a max of 50L to give good heat for at least 12 hours a day. You'd be looking at getting on towards 75 - 100kg of weight I would think including heater, tank, fuel, gimbal? (might be needed for the angles of heel that these guys run).

 

A forced air unit would be lighter but use electricity but might be more economical in fuel if it was just used for blasting hot air though foulies and into boots to dry them out.

 

Given the ice limits for the last few races I'd probably go without the heater as they are not that far south and not that cold. If the ice limits were removed the I'd have a heater no doubt! :)

 

Nice race shaping up for 4th

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and your 75-100 kg estimate of the weight would come down to about 25-40 kg once you had burned all the 50 litres of fuel. Better for the light air on the return up the Atlantic

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

Well it doesn't really work like that, because the water ballast can be dumped when not needed.

Some of the skippers, Armel included, choose to take diesel heaters. Others, like Alex, feel that it not necessary enough to warrant the extra weight.

 

A small Refleks or Dikinson space heater would work great and use 0 electricity. Say it is needed for 40 days it would require a max of 50L to give good heat for at least 12 hours a day. You'd be looking at getting on towards 75 - 100kg of weight I would think including heater, tank, fuel, gimbal? (might be needed for the angles of heel that these guys run).

 

A forced air unit would be lighter but use electricity but might be more economical in fuel if it was just used for blasting hot air though foulies and into boots to dry them out.

 

Given the ice limits for the last few races I'd probably go without the heater as they are not that far south and not that cold. If the ice limits were removed the I'd have a heater no doubt! :)

 

Nice race shaping up for 4th

 

I wonder if the heat created by the engine/generator is fully used and not going out the exhaust as hot water.

 

I've seen a car heater blower fitted to the cooling water line of a motor to great effect. At the least you can have a drying locker for not much weight.

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

Well it doesn't really work like that, because the water ballast can be dumped when not needed.

Some of the skippers, Armel included, choose to take diesel heaters. Others, like Alex, feel that it not necessary enough to warrant the extra weight.

A small Refleks or Dikinson space heater would work great and use 0 electricity. Say it is needed for 40 days it would require a max of 50L to give good heat for at least 12 hours a day. You'd be looking at getting on towards 75 - 100kg of weight I would think including heater, tank, fuel, gimbal? (might be needed for the angles of heel that these guys run).

 

A forced air unit would be lighter but use electricity but might be more economical in fuel if it was just used for blasting hot air though foulies and into boots to dry them out.

 

Given the ice limits for the last few races I'd probably go without the heater as they are not that far south and not that cold. If the ice limits were removed the I'd have a heater no doubt! :)

 

Nice race shaping up for 4th

I wonder if the heat created by the engine/generator is fully used and not going out the exhaust as hot water.

 

I've seen a car heater blower fitted to the cooling water line of a motor to great effect. At the least you can have a drying locker for not much weight.

Tricky a heat exchanger on the coolant line and even engine itself generates oodles of heat. Trouble is with large lithium battery banks and monster alternators with high charge rates, engine run time is extraordinarily low. That's why diesel is the energy source of choice as it requires little fuel, efficient and less prone to damage etc.

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

 

Well it doesn't really work like that, because the water ballast can be dumped when not needed.

Some of the skippers, Armel included, choose to take diesel heaters. Others, like Alex, feel that it not necessary enough to warrant the extra weight.

A small Refleks or Dikinson space heater would work great and use 0 electricity. Say it is needed for 40 days it would require a max of 50L to give good heat for at least 12 hours a day. You'd be looking at getting on towards 75 - 100kg of weight I would think including heater, tank, fuel, gimbal? (might be needed for the angles of heel that these guys run).

 

A forced air unit would be lighter but use electricity but might be more economical in fuel if it was just used for blasting hot air though foulies and into boots to dry them out.

 

Given the ice limits for the last few races I'd probably go without the heater as they are not that far south and not that cold. If the ice limits were removed the I'd have a heater no doubt! :)

 

Nice race shaping up for 4th

What do you consider cold? To me, it mostly depends on dampness. In Montana, -40 °F was easily bearable because it was so dry. Coldest to me is the damp PNW. How humid is it down there? Key for me would be keeping dry, including gear. Is it possible to dry out down there with auxillary equipment. If so, I would take. If not, why bother.

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

Well it doesn't really work like that, because the water ballast can be dumped when not needed.

Some of the skippers, Armel included, choose to take diesel heaters. Others, like Alex, feel that it not necessary enough to warrant the extra weight.

A small Refleks or Dikinson space heater would work great and use 0 electricity. Say it is needed for 40 days it would require a max of 50L to give good heat for at least 12 hours a day. You'd be looking at getting on towards 75 - 100kg of weight I would think including heater, tank, fuel, gimbal? (might be needed for the angles of heel that these guys run).

 

A forced air unit would be lighter but use electricity but might be more economical in fuel if it was just used for blasting hot air though foulies and into boots to dry them out.

 

Given the ice limits for the last few races I'd probably go without the heater as they are not that far south and not that cold. If the ice limits were removed the I'd have a heater no doubt! :)

 

Nice race shaping up for 4th

What do you consider cold? To me, it mostly depends on dampness. In Montana, -40 °F was easily bearable because it was so dry. Coldest to me is the damp PNW. How humid is it down there? Key for me would be keeping dry, including gear. Is it possible to dry out down there with auxillary equipment. If so, I would take. If not, why bother.

 

They are sailing in sea temperature of around 10 degrees C. If you take a look at this sea surface temp map you'll see that north of the ice limits the water temperature is no lower than this. The temperature inside the boat is going to be very close to sea temperature. If the sun is shining boats like HB will benefit from the hull colour absorbing and transmitting heat to the interior. Humidity is going to be 50 to 80% typically I would think depending on whether your are in the warm or cold sector of the front.

 

Outside on deck it will be cold on the fingers in frontal sectors; which may have snow and hail and with the windchill. But you get used to it if you are sailing all the time. Your circulation improves and you rarely need gloves.

 

En extra warm layer or two, a few packs of disposable hand warmer sachets and good food to keep the internal heaters burning is the way most of them roll it seems :)

 

Running a car heater on the engine cooling circuit works well but you would only have heading for an hour or so a day when the hydro-generators are not working so most likely not worth the effort.

 

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Interesting to compare the top 24hr distances recorded:

 

HUGO BOSS, Alex Thomson - 537nm
BANQUE POPULAIRE VIII, Armel Le Cléac'h - 524nm
SAFRAN, Morgan Lagraviére - 509nm
MAITRE COQ, Jérémie Béyou - 504nm
PRB, Vincent Riou - 501nm
St MICHEL-VIRBAC, Jean-Pierre Dick - 496nm
FINISTÈRE MER VENT, Jean Le Cam - 487nm
QUÉGUINER - LEUCÉMIE ESPOIR, Yann Elies - 448nm
BUREAU VALLÉE, Louis Burton - 447nm
SPIRIT OF HUNGARY, Nandor FA - 432nm

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Conrad paints his word-pictures again:

 

"The milky way shone overhead and was reflected in the waves by millions of bright spots of glowing plankton. Dolphins' shushing breathes echoed up the taught fabric of the sails and their bright bio-luminescent paths criss crossed underneath the bow like fallen meteors. It was a magic moment and all the frustrations from earlier fell away and I was again happy to take on the challenges of this race if it provided such privileged moments in return."

 

http://www.conradcolman.com/single-post/2017/01/21/Update-day-77-magic-moments

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Interesting to compare the top 24hr distances recorded:

 

 

HUGO BOSS, Alex Thomson - 537nm

 

BANQUE POPULAIRE VIII, Armel Le Cléac'h - 524nm

 

SAFRAN, Morgan Lagraviére - 509nm

 

MAITRE COQ, Jérémie Béyou - 504nm

 

PRB, Vincent Riou - 501nm

 

St MICHEL-VIRBAC, Jean-Pierre Dick - 496nm

 

FINISTÈRE MER VENT, Jean Le Cam - 487nm

 

QUÉGUINER - LEUCÉMIE ESPOIR, Yann Elies - 448nm

 

BUREAU VALLÉE, Louis Burton - 447nm

 

SPIRIT OF HUNGARY, Nandor FA - 432nm

If only Riou had more time to show what his boat (and him) were really capable of. Shame. Think he will be back?

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So, Hogo Boss has 2 tons of water ballast. Split that up so part is diesel and run a heater with it. No ?

 

Well it doesn't really work like that, because the water ballast can be dumped when not needed.

Some of the skippers, Armel included, choose to take diesel heaters. Others, like Alex, feel that it not necessary enough to warrant the extra weight.

A small Refleks or Dikinson space heater would work great and use 0 electricity. Say it is needed for 40 days it would require a max of 50L to give good heat for at least 12 hours a day. You'd be looking at getting on towards 75 - 100kg of weight I would think including heater, tank, fuel, gimbal? (might be needed for the angles of heel that these guys run).

 

A forced air unit would be lighter but use electricity but might be more economical in fuel if it was just used for blasting hot air though foulies and into boots to dry them out.

 

Given the ice limits for the last few races I'd probably go without the heater as they are not that far south and not that cold. If the ice limits were removed the I'd have a heater no doubt! :)

 

Nice race shaping up for 4th

What do you consider cold? To me, it mostly depends on dampness. In Montana, -40 °F was easily bearable because it was so dry. Coldest to me is the damp PNW. How humid is it down there? Key for me would be keeping dry, including gear. Is it possible to dry out down there with auxillary equipment. If so, I would take. If not, why bother.

...

Humidity is going to be 50 to 80%

...

burrr!

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We're supporting Conrad now right?

 

Of course we support him, He posts here. That he is very good with media helps.

 

Sebastien, should be fun to see if he can catch Pieter. Lots of EN media form him for a long time to come. This one is quite good.

Didac, for the catchup race he did. Quite a bit of drama an still in the race.

Rich, for his outreach and media work.

Nandor, because en media. nice that the boat stays together this round.

 

Basically everyone doing other than FR media.

(Pieter has so little media that I don't have an opinion.)

 

 

JPD took one on the chin, lets see if he can find some speed again:

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"The fire still burns."

 

Amazing result by an awesome sailor. Can't hardly wait another 4 years to see Alex have another go at his marvellous dream.

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heh guys there is a very depressed Dutchman sailing on his own. Yes we know he has more money than sense but the boat will come on the market and some racer boy can buy it BUT he is living the dream that most of either can not afford or dare no to do so please give hime some love on facebook - no way back sailing

 

there must be some orange people who read anarchy or else lots of other old guys who realise that its hard at our age? Well that is just the pill....... anyway hit him with some luv

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heh guys there is a very depressed Dutchman sailing on his own. Yes we know he has more money than sense but the boat will come on the market and some racer boy can buy it BUT he is living the dream that most of either can not afford or dare no to do so please give hime some love on facebook - no way back sailing

 

there must be some orange people who read anarchy or else lots of other old guys who realise that its hard at our age? Well that is just the pill....... anyway hit him with some luv

 

He'd better get his arse out of the Southern Ocean, or he'll likely to get walloped. There's a big low brewing behind him off Antartica.

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I would not write the other two off just yet. There is, relatively, a lot of runway to go.

 

I still think IDEC will get them all.

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Jeremie Beyou has been parked up for what almost 48 hours now at 4 kts. That's gotta bite, well, unless you take the time to say fack it and sleep.

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Jeremie Beyou has been parked up for what almost 48 hours now at 4 kts. That's gotta bite, well, unless you take the time to say fack it and sleep.

Finally, at 4utc, he is moving again. 8,4 knots.

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Potential for JPD to grab the 24 hour distance record from Boss. He's got the weather. Does he have the stamina and speed? Current speed is reported to be 22,7 knots.

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The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

 

Fiery Cross designed by Jim Young was a 45 foot long canter built and raced in 1957. Young says he got the idea of Herreshoff, but anyhow MINIs were the first to really start using them a lot though, as Fiery was not allowed to race with the keel canted after she showed how much faster it was to do so. No Aussie, Young is a fair dinkum Kiwi.

 

Same designer was the first to produce a fast 12 foot cat (raced as a 12 foot skiff until it was banned) in the Qs; first mega wide sportsyacht (extreme); probably the most prolific of the skiff style sportsboat/race yacht designers a true legend.

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It is said that the important guy is not the first guy to invent something but the last guy, since the last guy invented the thing so well it didn't have to be invented again.

 

The usual limitation on mechanical inventions is the conceptual idea first happens long before the supporting technologies required to make the thing work, such as materials and electronics, are available and affordable enough. Here, I guess you had to invent it and then have the right combination of just enough affordability and a group of pretty extreme racers so you could legalize it and then have a fleet of boats with the technology. Which seems to have first happened in France.

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Potential for JPD to grab the 24 hour distance record from Boss. He's got the weather. Does he have the stamina and speed? Current speed is reported to be 22,7 knots.

 

Doubt it. He hasn't cracked 500nm in 24hrs yet.

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"The fire still burns."

 

Amazing result by an awesome sailor. Can't hardly wait another 4 years to see Alex have another go at his marvellous dream.

 

Thanks for that find. Also interestingly to read that the openness of Alex towards to fans is a deliberate choice. And in line with Mark Turners' view with an open media strategy and not hiding stuff, which I appreciated very much with DFRT in the last edition of the VOR. And quite in contrast to Armel's media strategy regarding technical failures (his J1).

 

I have made a real effort in this race to engage with fans and on social media. The race needs that. I don’t think the policy of just being guarded with everything and not letting the public in s the right one. We need to get fans excited by the narrative, allow them to see what it’s like.

 

 

He also said something similar in the post race presser. Can't find the link now but it's somewhere further up the thread. Alex stressed the importance of the VG organisation taking the opportunity to make this a truly global race by fully embracing the media opportunity that is available to it.

 

Great words and I hope they follow through.

 

....and that VOR is listening...

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Jeremie Beyou has been parked up for what almost 48 hours now at 4 kts. That's gotta bite, well, unless you take the time to say fack it and sleep.

 

He won't have an excuse not to cross the line shaved and with clean laundry :)

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The canting keel was invented by an aussie back in i think 1981. While a Mini was the first boat to race with one, I also think the first to use one in a big boat was Pete Goss. CBTF was invented by Aussies too, wasn't it?

 

 

Fiery Cross designed by Jim Young was a 45 foot long canter built and raced in 1957. Young says he got the idea of Herreshoff, but anyhow MINIs were the first to really start using them a lot though, as Fiery was not allowed to race with the keel canted after she showed how much faster it was to do so. No Aussie, Young is a fair dinkum Kiwi.

 

Same designer was the first to produce a fast 12 foot cat (raced as a 12 foot skiff until it was banned) in the Qs; first mega wide sportsyacht (extreme); probably the most prolific of the skiff style sportsboat/race yacht designers a true legend.

 

 

Think Young also designed the Rocket 31, a boat way ahead of it's time.

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I hope Beyou gets a decent 3rd place reception. Looks like he'll get in at a fairly convenient time for locals to watch. Possibly after dark (what time is sunset there?), but after work and before bedtime.

 

Wednesday should be a great day, with three boats projected to finish the same afternoon.

 

Costa and Attanasio seem to have a nice elevator that may get them back within a small margin of the pack of 4 they're chasing during this week. Would be great to see that turn into a pack of 6. Both of those guys went through a lot to stay in the race, and it would be nice for them to have others to really race against to the finish. Looks like their elevator might leave them stalled out on the Brazilian coast in 5-6 days, though... so it may wind up just being a rubber band contraction that re-expands next weekend.

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Did Anyone get a photo of Alex's broken foil? I was surprised that there was not front page coverage of his arrival and finally some photos! Please point me in the right direction if you know of some.

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Looking at Forss JLC won't have to tack .... or course it is only a forecast ;)

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Good effort and shows well after the previous two early dnf's.

 

My feeling is that poor boat prep before the start let him down.

I'm not too sure about that....he had that boat up and running early and it looked good after he took out the run from New York. Then again most of his problems were electro/mechanical so maybe that department was lacking.

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Alex's technical director led Ouest-France on a walk-through of Hugo Boss three hours after Thomson moored his boat. An overview of some of the challenges Alex and HB faced. Several photos (one of the missing foil.) Cool of AT to permit the closeup look before crew came in and sort things out.

 

http://www.ouest-france.fr/vendee-globe/vendee-globe-alex-thomson-ne-ramene-pas-un-hugo-boss-indemne-4751915

 

Rough translation on key points:

 

No visible effects from the broken furling gennaker that bounced around repeatedly on the deck, but team will investigate using echo analysis method because "sneaky damage can spread in carbon."

 

When Alex came in, Armel strained to get a look at what he thought was a 'torn sail' on HB. It was not a tear, "but the leading edges of all the forward sails are in bad shape and would not survive an additional transat."

 

RE the missing foil: Waves delam-ed the remaining stump (Alex retracted it into the boat), which might mean "too much physical stress on the foil or an overly brutal effort imposed by the skipper or an OFNI, "Team to take good look around and under hull to see if structural damage occured.

 

Alex was physically exhausted on his return "in particular because he was forced to pilot himself beyond reason at the end of the course. A small but very detrimental rudder damage generated play in the rudder, preventing use of the autopilot in wind mode for twelve days, and risking losing control of the boat. All that remained was the compass mode, which, on the other hand, hangs on a heading and does not take into account wind rotations "

 

"Finally, a blue electric cable winds on the floor of the working range, between the winches, the piano (where all the ropes are centralized), the rudder... It goes up towards the port aft balcony, ends with a domino that connects it to a small wind vane. This is the system Alex found to compensate for the loss of his air.... At the end of his ascent from the South Atlantic, the masthead equipment had ceased to function. Result: no more information available on the wind, both in strength and direction. Alex cobbled together a system to its height, evidently less efficient and reliable than the one that reached some 29m high."

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Alex's technical director led Ouest-France on a walk-through of Hugo Boss three hours after Thomson moored his boat. An overview of some of the challenges Alex and HB faced. Several photos (one of the missing foil.) Cool of AT to permit the closeup look before crew came in and sort things out.

 

http://www.ouest-france.fr/vendee-globe/vendee-globe-alex-thomson-ne-ramene-pas-un-hugo-boss-indemne-4751915

 

Rough translation on key points:

 

No visible effects from the broken furling gennaker that bounced around repeatedly on the deck, but team will investigate using echo analysis method because "sneaky damage can spread in carbon."

 

When Alex came in, Armel strained to get a look at what he thought was a 'torn sail' on HB. It was not a tear, "but the leading edges of all the forward sails are in bad shape and would not survive an additional transat."

 

RE the missing foil: Waves delam-ed the remaining stump (Alex retracted it into the boat), which might mean "too much physical stress on the foil or an overly brutal effort imposed by the skipper or an OFNI, "Team to take good look around and under hull to see if structural damage occured.

 

Alex was physically exhausted on his return "in particular because he was forced to pilot himself beyond reason at the end of the course. A small but very detrimental rudder damage generated play in the rudder, preventing use of the autopilot in wind mode for twelve days, and risking losing control of the boat. All that remained was the compass mode, which, on the other hand, hangs on a heading and does not take into account wind rotations "

 

"Finally, a blue electric cable winds on the floor of the working range, between the winches, the piano (where all the ropes are centralized), the rudder... It goes up towards the port aft balcony, ends with a domino that connects it to a small wind vane. This is the system Alex found to compensate for the loss of his air.... At the end of his ascent from the South Atlantic, the masthead equipment had ceased to function. Result: no more information available on the wind, both in strength and direction. Alex cobbled together a system to its height, evidently less efficient and reliable than the one that reached some 29m high."

I never cease to be amazed at how resourceful the Vendée Globe sailors are, on top of all their other qualities, think I would give up rather than change a light bulb..

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