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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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mpbeagle

Beneteau 36.7

83 posts in this topic

I'm upgrading to my first big boat from a 22 foot trailer yacht that I sailed in the Delaware Bay and coastal atlantic. I am looking for a boat that I can go on overnighters with my 4 kids and wife and can handle the Atlantic but also be used in the summer for some club racing and is fast and fun to sail. I have looked at a bunch of boats over the last year and have narrowed my search down to a couple of 2004/5 beneteau 36.7s, a 1989 j-37, and a 2004 bavaria 36 with the deep lead keel and full battened main (I know the Bavaria will not be a popular choice here). I am leaning toward the 36.7 but the one boat has been raced every week since new and I have been told this is not good to buy after this kind of use. Despite this, the floors, rigging, and cabin look beautiful, as well as the rest of the boat. I have also sailed on board and aside from a new set of sails seems in pretty good shape. Is it really that bad to buy a 36.7 that has been raced heavily but taken care of? Also, what trouble spots do I need to look for in this boat? Are there any problems with 2004-2009 36.7s?

Thanks-newbie

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I own and race a 36.7 solo. this boat is build like a TANK! the mast and spreaders are the same sections as that on the 40.7, everything on this boat is WAY overbuilt which makes it heavy and tender. if the boat has been take care off and you get a good survey the boat probably is good for another 30 years of racing, hell maybe 40!

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I agree with NewLeaf. I raced my Bene 36.7 hard for 8 years. Took very good care of FC and sold her in excellent condition. Had no issues with the survey. The boat is a tank and a great one-design boat. Also did quite well in local club PHRF racing. [House is full of trophies.]

The boat is also a great family cruising boat. We cruised (delivered) from/to the Chesapeake to/from Newport for the 36.7 National Championships. The boat did great off shore accommodating 4 crew. Engine has more than enough power to push the 12,500 lbs at hull speed when the wind quits and burns just less than 3/4 gal per hour.

It's a great boat. You would love it!

...FC

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There is a 2003 on Yachtworld for sale in CHS.

 

Great platform for a 'crossover' boat that is solid.

 

Sail safe

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+1 to all above and........

 

A boat that has been competitively raced will have most if not all mods that are class approved.

Try to find late model 2005 and up that fits your budget, it will have the newer steering pedestal and associated changes. it provides foot hold for helm and main trimmer. Great improvemt over the earlier models.

I am in my 3rd season with Kazuri. We cruise/club race/distance race and are very happy with the boats performance. There are compromises in having a cruiser/racer. This boat is very comfortable in both modes

 

If you found one with clean interior (like mine), consider it as most hard raced ones are beat up down below we found. Good luck in your search

 

Pm me if you want more details. Be happy to help.

 

Paging Jackdaw/Kestrel 219..........

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Based on your comments and requirements, it's hard to think o a better boat than the 367. With 4 kids, the 3 cabins will be a god send.

 

One that has been raced in not a big deal. Just look for the level of dings and bumps. If you're good, go.

 

As stu notes the late 2005+ models got the new wheel mount. At least look at one before you buy an older boat without it.

 

We race and cruise ours. Very honest race boat, and flat out smokes almost anything while cruising, in particular to windward, where the thing is a wizard. We're sitting on anchor now. The boats that left port an hour before us should be here sometime after we've started dinner.

 

Deep keel only. Shoal draft boats need not apply.

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The boat tracks like a beachball. That is to say it just doesn't track at all.

The wheel is too small.

The head is too small.

The boat is under powered downwind.

The boat is over powered upwind except in less that say 10-11 knots.

The boat will not point in under 7-8 knots of breeze. Tacking angles will be like 100 degrees in the light stuff.

If you are not racing class or are racing PHRF or IRC etc., go with a 144% genoa.

If you are racing handicap, an A-3 is essential. Would also consider an A-2 and A-4.

The shoal draft boat cannot point as high as the deep draft version. However, the stability index of the shoal draft boat is a bit higher.

The stock steering ratio is like 1.25:1 (IIRC), if not already done, you would want change that to 1:1. Easy to do and class legal.

They are okay offshore but calling them "built like a tank" is a bit optimistic. In over 25+ knots of breeze you start to question your sanity and if racing you will be considering slowing the boat down for safety sake.

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The boat tracks like a beachball. That is to say it just doesn't track at all.

The wheel is too small.

The head is too small.

The boat is under powered downwind.

The boat is over powered upwind except in less that say 10-11 knots.

The boat will not point in under 7-8 knots of breeze. Tacking angles will be like 100 degrees in the light stuff.

If you are not racing class or are racing PHRF or IRC etc., go with a 144% genoa.

If you are racing handicap, an A-3 is essential. Would also consider an A-2 and A-4.

The shoal draft boat cannot point as high as the deep draft version. However, the stability index of the shoal draft boat is a bit higher.

 

 

The stock steering ratio is like 1.25:1 (IIRC), if not already done, you would want change that to 1:1. Easy to do and class legal.

They are okay offshore but calling them "built like a tank" is a bit optimistic. In over 25+ knots of breeze you start to question your sanity and if racing you will be considering slowing the boat down for safety sake.

No. 6,

Curious about your experience on the boat. Lots of races logged? Were you an owner? If so, how long?

Thanks.

...FC

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the boat is built like a tank, that doesn't have anything how it handles in big breeze... still will handle big seas and breeze (2 reefs and #4) just fine and will not split.

 

The boat tracks like a beachball. That is to say it just doesn't track at all.

The wheel is too small.

The head is too small.

The boat is under powered downwind.

The boat is over powered upwind except in less that say 10-11 knots.

The boat will not point in under 7-8 knots of breeze. Tacking angles will be like 100 degrees in the light stuff.

If you are not racing class or are racing PHRF or IRC etc., go with a 144% genoa.

If you are racing handicap, an A-3 is essential. Would also consider an A-2 and A-4.

The shoal draft boat cannot point as high as the deep draft version. However, the stability index of the shoal draft boat is a bit higher.

The stock steering ratio is like 1.25:1 (IIRC), if not already done, you would want change that to 1:1. Easy to do and class legal.

They are okay offshore but calling them "built like a tank" is a bit optimistic. In over 25+ knots of breeze you start to question your sanity and if racing you will be considering slowing the boat down for safety sake.

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Perhaps we have a different definition about what built like a tank means.

I take that to mean a boat that can be taken offshore and have a heap load of stink put on her and not feel like she may suffer damage. A 36.7 is not really that boat. Like I said, she would be good until 25 knots of breeze and then it is time to consider slowing her down and taking it easy on her. I would hate to see how they behave in significant weather offshore. The flexing, grinding and moaning at 30 knots is concerning enough.

They are not what one would call a good offshore boat in both construction and handling characteristics. Not a bad boat coastal and around the cans, but to suggest they would be a good, safe offshore boat is either misleading or naive.

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I have a pretty good idea of the hull and deck construction. Built like a tank? Nope. Trust me on this.

 

Fine for coastal cruising with the family and kids? Sure.

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The boat tracks like a beachball. That is to say it just doesn't track at all.

The wheel is too small.

The head is too small.

The boat is under powered downwind.

The boat is over powered upwind except in less that say 10-11 knots.

The boat will not point in under 7-8 knots of breeze. Tacking angles will be like 100 degrees in the light stuff.

If you are not racing class or are racing PHRF or IRC etc., go with a 144% genoa.

If you are racing handicap, an A-3 is essential. Would also consider an A-2 and A-4.

The shoal draft boat cannot point as high as the deep draft version. However, the stability index of the shoal draft boat is a bit higher.

 

 

The stock steering ratio is like 1.25:1 (IIRC), if not already done, you would want change that to 1:1. Easy to do and class legal.

They are okay offshore but calling them "built like a tank" is a bit optimistic. In over 25+ knots of breeze you start to question your sanity and if racing you will be considering slowing the boat down for safety sake.

No. 6,

Curious about your experience on the boat. Lots of races logged? Were you an owner? If so, how long?

Thanks.

...FC

Gosh no, I wouldn't own a beachball.

I probably have about 4000+ miles sailing on two different 36.7's. Set up one (soup to nuts) to do Bermuda in '08, was the primary driver in a tuff stream crossing and navigated the boat. Results of that campaign speak for themselves. Boat I have been sailing on for the past 5 seasons, we set up much like Tenacious. Shooting Star has the best distance racing record over the course of that with several Windigo wins (top PHRF boat LIS) a DeCoursey Fales win (top IRC boat LIS) and numerous successes along the way to capturing those honors. Also did an Annapolis-Newport with the boat, wasn't a beach day, but we had a fun race including sailing down the Cheas in 30+ with a .75oz class size chute up. So aside from being the guy who rigged the boat(s), nav/tactics, I am also one of the, if not the, primary helmsman. I know more than I care to about the construction and handling characteristics of the boat. I have a pretty good handle on what they can and cannot do.

OP if you want to ask any questions or wish input, PM me. I will endeavor to give you good skinny.

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The boat tracks like a beachball. That is to say it just doesn't track at all.

The wheel is too small.

The head is too small.

The boat is under powered downwind.

The boat is over powered upwind except in less that say 10-11 knots.

The boat will not point in under 7-8 knots of breeze. Tacking angles will be like 100 degrees in the light stuff.

If you are not racing class or are racing PHRF or IRC etc., go with a 144% genoa.

If you are racing handicap, an A-3 is essential. Would also consider an A-2 and A-4.

The shoal draft boat cannot point as high as the deep draft version. However, the stability index of the shoal draft boat is a bit higher.

 

 

The stock steering ratio is like 1.25:1 (IIRC), if not already done, you would want change that to 1:1. Easy to do and class legal.

They are okay offshore but calling them "built like a tank" is a bit optimistic. In over 25+ knots of breeze you start to question your sanity and if racing you will be considering slowing the boat down for safety sake.

No. 6,

Curious about your experience on the boat. Lots of races logged? Were you an owner? If so, how long?

Thanks.

...FC

Gosh no, I wouldn't own a beachball.

I probably have about 4000+ miles sailing on two different 36.7's. Set up one (soup to nuts) to do Bermuda in '08, was the primary driver in a tuff stream crossing and navigated the boat. Results of that campaign speak for themselves. Boat I have been sailing on for the past 5 seasons, we set up much like Tenacious. Shooting Star has the best distance racing record over the course of that with several Windigo wins (top PHRF boat LIS) a DeCoursey Fales win (top IRC boat LIS) and numerous successes along the way to capturing those honors. Also did an Annapolis-Newport with the boat, wasn't a beach day, but we had a fun race including sailing down the Cheas in 30+ with a .75oz class size chute up. So aside from being the guy who rigged the boat(s), nav/tactics, I am also one of the, if not the, primary helmsman. I know more than I care to about the construction and handling characteristics of the boat. I have a pretty good handle on what they can and cannot do.

OP if you want to ask any questions or wish input, PM me. I will endeavor to give you good skinny.

*pats No.6 on the back

 

Soooooooo rock star.....what would the 4000+ miles "beach ball driver" (who hated every mile) recommend to the newbie who has not shown any tits yet?

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I must be naive...I have been in consistent 42-46 knots out of Neah Bay 2 times now with 3 reefs and a #4 practicing for solo racing with no problems... yes no spinnaker and just the seas that winds like this produce and I did not feel like the boat was going to fail, or break. Have I been in better boats yes, is this boat over powered upwind? yes, but then what is wrong with depowering in 30knots and more if you are hitting or exceeding your targets?

 

But I have no trust issues on her...I guess we have different qualifications on what we consider a safe boat.

Perhaps we have a different definition about what built like a tank means.

I take that to mean a boat that can be taken offshore and have a heap load of stink put on her and not feel like she may suffer damage. A 36.7 is not really that boat. Like I said, she would be good until 25 knots of breeze and then it is time to consider slowing her down and taking it easy on her. I would hate to see how they behave in significant weather offshore. The flexing, grinding and moaning at 30 knots is concerning enough.

They are not what one would call a good offshore boat in both construction and handling characteristics. Not a bad boat coastal and around the cans, but to suggest they would be a good, safe offshore boat is either misleading or naive.

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The boat tracks like a beachball. That is to say it just doesn't track at all.

The wheel is too small.

The head is too small.

The boat is under powered downwind.

The boat is over powered upwind except in less that say 10-11 knots.

The boat will not point in under 7-8 knots of breeze. Tacking angles will be like 100 degrees in the light stuff.

If you are not racing class or are racing PHRF or IRC etc., go with a 144% genoa.

If you are racing handicap, an A-3 is essential. Would also consider an A-2 and A-4.

The shoal draft boat cannot point as high as the deep draft version. However, the stability index of the shoal draft boat is a bit higher.

 

 

The stock steering ratio is like 1.25:1 (IIRC), if not already done, you would want change that to 1:1. Easy to do and class legal.

They are okay offshore but calling them "built like a tank" is a bit optimistic. In over 25+ knots of breeze you start to question your sanity and if racing you will be considering slowing the boat down for safety sake.

No. 6,

Curious about your experience on the boat. Lots of races logged? Were you an owner? If so, how long?

Thanks.

...FC

Gosh no, I wouldn't own a beachball.

I probably have about 4000+ miles sailing on two different 36.7's. Set up one (soup to nuts) to do Bermuda in '08, was the primary driver in a tuff stream crossing and navigated the boat. Results of that campaign speak for themselves. Boat I have been sailing on for the past 5 seasons, we set up much like Tenacious. Shooting Star has the best distance racing record over the course of that with several Windigo wins (top PHRF boat LIS) a DeCoursey Fales win (top IRC boat LIS) and numerous successes along the way to capturing those honors. Also did an Annapolis-Newport with the boat, wasn't a beach day, but we had a fun race including sailing down the Cheas in 30+ with a .75oz class size chute up. So aside from being the guy who rigged the boat(s), nav/tactics, I am also one of the, if not the, primary helmsman. I know more than I care to about the construction and handling characteristics of the boat. I have a pretty good handle on what they can and cannot do.

OP if you want to ask any questions or wish input, PM me. I will endeavor to give you good skinny.

*pats No.6 on the back

 

Soooooooo rock star.....what would the 4000+ miles "beach ball driver" (who hated every mile) recommend to the newbie who has not shown any tits yet?

Say what?

First guy asks a question. I gave him my honest opinion. Second guy asks about my bona fides, so I gave him an honest answer as well.

So I fail to see what you have your smalls in a twist about. Perhaps you think the First 36.7 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Me? I think it is an alright cruiser/racer for coastal and inshore stuff, but not an offshore boat.

I didn't tell him whether he should buy the boat or not. Might be just what he is looking for, for all I know.

Agree about the tits.

 

BTW, never said I hated sailing on the boat. Greatly enjoy racing with my friends and am pleased with what we have been able to accomplish with a clorox bottle.

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I must be naive...I have been in consistent 42-46 knots out of Neah Bay 2 times now with 3 reefs and a #4 practicing for solo racing with no problems... yes no spinnaker and just the seas that winds like this produce and I did not feel like the boat was going to fail, or break. Have I been in better boats yes, is this boat over powered upwind? yes, but then what is wrong with depowering in 30knots and more if you are hitting or exceeding your targets?

 

But I have no trust issues on her...I guess we have different qualifications on what we consider a safe boat.

Perhaps we have a different definition about what built like a tank means.

I take that to mean a boat that can be taken offshore and have a heap load of stink put on her and not feel like she may suffer damage. A 36.7 is not really that boat. Like I said, she would be good until 25 knots of breeze and then it is time to consider slowing her down and taking it easy on her. I would hate to see how they behave in significant weather offshore. The flexing, grinding and moaning at 30 knots is concerning enough.

They are not what one would call a good offshore boat in both construction and handling characteristics. Not a bad boat coastal and around the cans, but to suggest they would be a good, safe offshore boat is either misleading or naive.

I would be most surprised if you could control the boat in that much breeze with that much sail up. We've been known to just take the main down when breeze is in excess of 30 knots. Not really getting anything out of it and just beating shit up for no good reason. Plus anything over 20 degrees heel and you just start going sideways with that short keel strut cord section.

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Solid newbie plan: Ask about a 367 on SA. The resulting commotion will distract everyone from the normally mandatory tit-show. Well played.

 

Some more thoughts, now on a actual keyboard...

 

The 10 gallon holding tank is total joke. You'll need to swap that out for at least a 20 gallon number.

 

Check the rubber bearings. Older boats have/had an iffy setup.

 

As noted the boat fully powers up in 14 knots true. After that, its a question of what to do with the extra pressure. Here on normally low-wind Lake Superior, that's nice. In locations where its typically sporty, that might get old.

 

The high aspect keel needs some speed before it generates lift. Not as bad at the First 35 'T' disaster, but give it time to get to speed before you go into point mode.

 

None of the three staterooms are ideal. Or even good. The two aft are pizza ovens, and the vee is for short people. That being said, we've spent weeks in the aft port bed and were fine. And the fact that 6 can sleep behind doors (with 2 more in the salon) is great in a 35 footer.

 

The overall built program is : high quality mass production. Just don't expect custom boat finishes. But value for money it is very very hard to beat.

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I have good friends with a french built, tiller steered 36.7 that they keep in the Windward islands and live on for 6 months of the year. Typical conditions there dictate that the boat is set up with 3 reef points and a #4 jib only. With that in mind, it's a great boat that can sail near 100% all day long. Now, 100% for a 367 is not all that fast, but its all relative and it blows the Sunsail 40s out of the water along that strip of ocean. This boat was delivered on its own bottom from France to Guadeloupe right out of the box and appears fine.

 

The Euro/tiller version is great, the aft cabin divider is right on center so both aft cabins are legit doubles and the kids won't fight over who gets which room. Agree that the V berth is a bit too tiny, Beneteau has been getting this wrong for 30 years and won't improve that any time soon on their race boats.

 

The biggest fail on this and the 40.7 was making the spinnakers much too small relative to the similar sized J boats - fortunately that is a pretty easy problem to solve.

 

If you don't expect the boat to plane, I don't think you can be disappointed in the performance. I'd buy one tomorrow if it wasn't 3.5x the price of my current 36 footer.

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The biggest fail on this and the 40.7 was making the spinnakers much too small relative to the similar sized J boats - fortunately that is a pretty easy problem to solve.

Even with the undersized spinni, we were able to surf downwind in 25 kts of breeze at 15 kts.

...FC

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You must get some big fuking waves in the Chesapeake.

 

Boat has too much rocker to go that fast or even surf effectively for anything prolonged. While we have gotten SS into the mid 14's (on the GPS), it is very short lived. Boat tends to try and sit on its ass to the point where water is flooding the back of the cockpit through the transom.

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I have good friends with a french built, tiller steered 36.7 that they keep in the Windward islands and live on for 6 months of the year. Typical conditions there dictate that the boat is set up with 3 reef points and a #4 jib only. With that in mind, it's a great boat that can sail near 100% all day long. Now, 100% for a 367 is not all that fast, but its all relative and it blows the Sunsail 40s out of the water along that strip of ocean. This boat was delivered on its own bottom from France to Guadeloupe right out of the box and appears fine.

 

The Euro/tiller version is great, the aft cabin divider is right on center so both aft cabins are legit doubles and the kids won't fight over who gets which room. Agree that the V berth is a bit too tiny, Beneteau has been getting this wrong for 30 years and won't improve that any time soon on their race boats.

 

The biggest fail on this and the 40.7 was making the spinnakers much too small relative to the similar sized J boats - fortunately that is a pretty easy problem to solve.

 

If you don't expect the boat to plane, I don't think you can be disappointed in the performance. I'd buy one tomorrow if it wasn't 3.5x the price of my current 36 footer.

The French built boats are a different animal. They are not class legal in North America. I have always found that pretty funny.

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I'm upgrading to my first big boat from a 22 foot trailer yacht that I sailed in the Delaware Bay and coastal atlantic. I am looking for a boat that I can go on overnighters with my 4 kids and wife and can handle the Atlantic but also be used in the summer for some club racing and is fast and fun to sail. I have looked at a bunch of boats over the last year and have narrowed my search down to a couple of 2004/5 beneteau 36.7s, a 1989 j-37, and a 2004 bavaria 36 with the deep lead keel and full battened main (I know the Bavaria will not be a popular choice here). I am leaning toward the 36.7 but the one boat has been raced every week since new and I have been told this is not good to buy after this kind of use. Despite this, the floors, rigging, and cabin look beautiful, as well as the rest of the boat. I have also sailed on board and aside from a new set of sails seems in pretty good shape. Is it really that bad to buy a 36.7 that has been raced heavily but taken care of? Also, what trouble spots do I need to look for in this boat? Are there any problems with 2004-2009 36.7s?

Thanks-newbie

 

 

well mpbeagle, you have heard from a few owners and a non owner.........if you still in doubt, ask any of these guys......http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2013/09/08/grizzly-dominates-beneteau-first-36-7-north-american-championship/

 

Like Jackdaw said.......overall, good value for the money....

 

Like No.6 said.......acomplished alot with the boat

 

The 36.7 is not perfect....it is however, a fast fun boat to cruise/race and great for the family at a reasonable price these days....

 

No one has talked about the J-37 or the Bavaria on your list yet....perhaps you should ask in a different thread....

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J-37 is a decent boat. A rating of 72 PHRF was tough to sail at in breeze below 11 knots but at 13 on up the boat preformed above its rating. The UFO keel, the shoal draft version, kills the boat. Makes it feel dead. Liked the garage version but that limits the boat to two cabins. I think there was a 3 cabin version but I have never seen one. Issues with any J-boat are wet core around fittings as they didn't remove the coring in favor of solid glass in those areas. Some later built J-Boats had issues with the keel sumps going soft. I don't think the 37's were one of the models that had such problems but you should check that out.

I would suggest you also look at the Express 37. Some had aft state rooms. Great sailing boat and faster than anything you mentioned. Alsberg Bros. built a very good boat.

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Of the 69 raters (J35, Schock 35, Thomas 35 and the Express 37) the Express was the best built boat by far, they had epoxy hulls and an ash finish below that was light and airy. Speed wise the J35 and the Schock 35 dominated the other two, in general under 12 the Schock was king, over 12 the J was king the T and E showed spurts of speed but were harder to keep in the groove and often off the pace.

 

For cruising the E 37 is a good bet.

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Of the 69 raters (J35, Schock 35, Thomas 35 and the Express 37) the Express was the best built boat by far, they had epoxy hulls and an ash finish below that was light and airy. Speed wise the J35 and the Schock 35 dominated the other two, in general under 12 the Schock was king, over 12 the J was king the T and E showed spurts of speed but were harder to keep in the groove and often off the pace.

 

For cruising the E 37 is a good bet.

 

We have a very well sailed E37 in our fleet. We beat it, boat on boat, 9 times out of 10. Just sayin.

 

Its nice downstairs, and well built, but has a very open feel. Nice for racing I suppose. Sleeping 6 with any level of privacy and comfort? No dice.

 

We also have a Schock 35 in the fleet. We are faster on every point of sail in more than 7 knots of breeze. And it's a cave downstairs.

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They're not doing it right then, we were never beaten boat for boat by a .7 and almost always corrected out ahead. The Schock is 6 seconds faster and it's a light air god in the chop.

 

 

We also have a Schock 35 in the fleet. We are faster on every point of sail in more than 7 knots of breeze.

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They're not doing it right then, we were never beaten boat for boat by a .7 and almost always corrected out ahead. The Schock is 6 seconds faster and it's a light air god in the chop.

 

Its possible. It seems our tactics are usually much better.

 

The Lake Michigan PHRF numbers we use for these three boat are:

 

72 Express 37

75 First 367

78 Schock 35

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Wow! I would loved to have raced the Schock at 78! We started with a rating of 69 and won about half our battles with the J35's. We lobbied the PHRF committee for 2 years to make it boat for boat with the J35. 78? WOW! What a gift.

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Wow! I would loved to have raced the Schock at 78! We started with a rating of 69 and won about half our battles with the J35's. We lobbied the PHRF committee for 2 years to make it boat for boat with the J35. 78? WOW! What a gift.

 

Furler and asym credits. I think.

 

Its a quick boat in light airs. I think it weights a ton and a half less than the Bennie. More if you add in our A/C.

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All-Thanks for all the great advice. The 36.7 seems like a great value and I sailed on it in a local race and it performs very well and consistent with both the positive and negative comments. O-6 I appreciate the one comment on the J37-anyone else? Big concern on the J-37 is the cracking around some of the thru deck-fittings and concern that this will be a never-ending repair process on the J-37. As expected, no comments on the Bavaria. Unfortunately, the person who matters the most-the admiral-likes the Bavaria the best and when she looked at the 36.7 yesterday, she described the aft-berths as an MRI scanner (yes-pizza oven is correct as well). It looks like if I want the 36.7 I will have to sleep and sail alone! Any other suggestions on a boat that can sleep 6-7 and doesn't perform like a tub?

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Of the 69 raters (J35, Schock 35, Thomas 35 and the Express 37) the Express was the best built boat by far, they had epoxy hulls and an ash finish below that was light and airy. Speed wise the J35 and the Schock 35 dominated the other two, in general under 12 the Schock was king, over 12 the J was king the T and E showed spurts of speed but were harder to keep in the groove and often off the pace.

 

For cruising the E 37 is a good bet.

 

We have a very well sailed E37 in our fleet. We beat it, boat on boat, 9 times out of 10. Just sayin.

 

Its nice downstairs, and well built, but has a very open feel. Nice for racing I suppose. Sleeping 6 with any level of privacy and comfort? No dice.

 

We also have a Schock 35 in the fleet. We are faster on every point of sail in more than 7 knots of breeze. And it's a cave downstairs.

Well then I would suggest it isn't that well sailed an Express. I sailed one for a decade. Nice boat and when dialed in the 367 shouldn't be able to touch it in all but upwind 12 knots or so, when they are about equal. All other points of sail and conditions the Express should walk away from a beachball. Downhill and in light air it is no contest.

 

Interesting that 367's rate 75 on LM. Seems like a hard rating. In WLIS the base is 81 or 84. We take a crew wait limit credit and 144% jib credit and thus rate 90 WL and 87 for distance racing.

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After your done and bored with the Bavaria, good luck selling it.

 

Want more info? Time to post some tits (preferably the admirals)

 

No compromise on that. Lol

 

Really too bad the 36.7 is out. Our phrf is 78 here. Your "accomplishments" (although impressive) No.6 with weight credits and 144% genoa is for pussies. The Great Lake 36.7's race with the 75/78 ratings wether they sail single handed or fully crewed flying a g-string, with no bitching by anyone.

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You must get some big fuking waves in the Chesapeake.

 

Boat has too much rocker to go that fast or even surf effectively for anything prolonged. While we have gotten SS into the mid 14's (on the GPS), it is very short lived. Boat tends to try and sit on its ass to the point where water is flooding the back of the cockpit through the transom.

You calling me a liar No.6? Or, just an exaggerator?

OK... I rounded up to 15 from the mid 14's. And, we were pumping the main. And it wasn't for a terribly prolonged period of time. But... we WERE surfing at 15 (14.6) kts in the Chesapeake!

...FC

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After your done and bored with the Bavaria, good luck selling it.

 

Want more info? Time to post some tits (preferably the admirals)

 

No compromise on that. Lol

 

Really too bad the 36.7 is out. Our phrf is 78 here. Your "accomplishments" (although impressive) No.6 with weight credits and 144% genoa is for pussies. The Great Lake 36.7's race with the 75/78 ratings wether they sail single handed or fully crewed flying a g-string, with no bitching by anyone.

All the 367's in LIS that do distance racing take the genoa credit and most take the weight credit.

The reason is that a 144% genoa is just as fast from 9 knots on up. There is a very slight deficit in speed at 6-7 knots of wind. Below 6, it is actually a bit faster So the 3 second credit is most worth it.

As for the weight credit. As it works out we can carry 8 people at an average weight of 185 lbs. Since that is right in our wheelhouse WRT the number we wish to sail with, why wouldn't we take the credit?

Handicap racing, whether IRC, ORR or PHRF, is about maximizing performance with the most favorable rating you can achieve.

 

Now the reason we don't have masthead kites with the necessary penalty pole is because the hit is 6 seconds, 9 if you go with asymms and use both a sprit and penalty pole. Since you tend to sail a lot of reaches in distance racing in the sound, we go with asymms flown off the standard pole and that have the same area as the class symmetricals. This works out well since you need to heat the boat up in lighter air anyhow. In that config we regularly beat a sistership that has the masthead asymms. He however elected to go with sprit only to maintain only a 6 second penalty. He also sails with a furling drum for 3 more seconds. Bit of BS as the genoas he has were built in a way that he can't furl them.

 

And yeah, we are the pussies. The idiots who decided it would be a good idea to race one to Bermuda. Shit the next thing you know you will be saying we were pussies for putting a keel shoe on that boat so it would measure in and pass the stability index.

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You must get some big fuking waves in the Chesapeake.

 

Boat has too much rocker to go that fast or even surf effectively for anything prolonged. While we have gotten SS into the mid 14's (on the GPS), it is very short lived. Boat tends to try and sit on its ass to the point where water is flooding the back of the cockpit through the transom.

You calling me a liar No.6? Or, just an exaggerator?

OK... I rounded up to 15 from the mid 14's. And, we were pumping the main. And it wasn't for a terribly prolonged period of time. But... we WERE surfing at 15 (14.6) kts in the Chesapeake!

...FC

I think the term I would use was overly optimistic... that or yacht broker perhaps.

Of course you might be one of those people that think RayMarine instruments are telling you the truth. Then I would have a different name for you.

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Well if given the choice between a calibrated set of B&Gs and a calibrated set of RayMarine (I know, stop laughing), I would go with the B&Gs. However if I wanted to know how fast I was really going, I would rely on GPS and not a paddlewheel that is off centerline and way too far forward.

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Well if given the choice between a calibrated set of B&Gs and a calibrated set of RayMarine (I know, stop laughing), I would go with the B&Gs. However if I wanted to know how fast I was really going, I would rely on GPS and not a paddlewheel that is off centerline and way too far forward.

I would submit that the error created by the "cheap" RayMarine speedo and paddlewheel transducer would be less than that created by using GPS to measure speed over the ground given the variability of currents in the Chesapeake upwards of 2.5 kts. After all, I was referring to speed through the water... not speed over the bottom.

...FC

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And were you in 2.5 knots of current? LOL

I trust your transducer is in the same place most beachballs are, under the floor in the forward cabin like 1 foot off centerline. Damn thing is nearly out of the water when you surf so I would not be too sure about what that paddlewheel would be experiencing.

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Well if given the choice between a calibrated set of B&Gs and a calibrated set of RayMarine (I know, stop laughing), I would go with the B&Gs. However if I wanted to know how fast I was really going, I would rely on GPS and not a paddlewheel that is off centerline and way too far forward.

 

ALL paddlewheels suck. Anyone have success with the Ultrasonics?

 

http://www.airmartechnology.com/2009/products/marine-product.asp?prodid=68&manf=All

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And were you in 2.5 knots of current? LOL

Currents of up to 2.5 kts are certainly experienced at times in the Chesapeake. And, I have sailed in currents of well in excess of that in your apparent home waters of LIS. I'm surprised you would scoff and "LOL" at a mere 2.5 kts.

The point regarding speed thru the water vice speed over the bottom remains germane.

...FC

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After your done and bored with the Bavaria, good luck selling it.

 

Want more info? Time to post some tits (preferably the admirals)

 

No compromise on that. Lol

 

Really too bad the 36.7 is out. Our phrf is 78 here. Your "accomplishments" (although impressive) No.6 with weight credits and 144% genoa is for pussies. The Great Lake 36.7's race with the 75/78 ratings wether they sail single handed or fully crewed flying a g-string, with no bitching by anyone.

All the 367's in LIS that do distance racing take the genoa credit and most take the weight credit.

The reason is that a 144% genoa is just as fast from 9 knots on up. There is a very slight deficit in speed at 6-7 knots of wind. Below 6, it is actually a bit faster So the 3 second credit is most worth it.

As for the weight credit. As it works out we can carry 8 people at an average weight of 185 lbs. Since that is right in our wheelhouse WRT the number we wish to sail with, why wouldn't we take the credit?

Handicap racing, whether IRC, ORR or PHRF, is about maximizing performance with the most favorable rating you can achieve.

 

Now the reason we don't have masthead kites with the necessary penalty pole is because the hit is 6 seconds, 9 if you go with asymms and use both a sprit and penalty pole. Since you tend to sail a lot of reaches in distance racing in the sound, we go with asymms flown off the standard pole and that have the same area as the class symmetricals. This works out well since you need to heat the boat up in lighter air anyhow. In that config we regularly beat a sistership that has the masthead asymms. He however elected to go with sprit only to maintain only a 6 second penalty. He also sails with a furling drum for 3 more seconds. Bit of BS as the genoas he has were built in a way that he can't furl them.

 

And yeah, we are the pussies. The idiots who decided it would be a good idea to race one to Bermuda. Shit the next thing you know you will be saying we were pussies for putting a keel shoe on that boat so it would measure in and pass the stability index.

 

No. You were an idiot to claim it in was still OD with the shoe still installed. You don't work for Oracle do you?

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"I" claimed it was still OD compliant? Seriously? I explained this at length to Julien. How to attach the thing so it could be readily taken off and how it was NOT going to fly with the class. We put it on for BDA to pass the SI inclination. What JD did after I stopped sailing on the boat, last race being Bermuda, was all his doing. Get yer facts straight man.

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And were you in 2.5 knots of current? LOL

Currents of up to 2.5 kts are certainly experienced at times in the Chesapeake. And, I have sailed in currents of well in excess of that in your apparent home waters of LIS. I'm surprised you would scoff and "LOL" at a mere 2.5 kts.

The point regarding speed thru the water vice speed over the bottom remains germane.

...FC

Not scoffing at "a mere 2.5 knots", I am scoffing at the fact that you toss that out there expecting me to believe it.... that that was the case when you were going "15 knots" with your beachball. I am sure there are some little rivers with narrows that run that fast in CB, maybe a bar here and there, around Thomas Point Light with a full moon on the ebb with a stiff northerly perhaps, but as a general rule?

As for currents in LIS, at one end we have The Race, Plum Gut and Watch Hill, at the other, Hell Gate. Feel free to research that yourself.

 

As for it remaining germane, not really because of the position of the transducer. Now if you took a GPS reading and corrected it for say a .5 knot current, sure, but paddle wheels that are poorly placed, in the way they are in in a first 367, I would hardly consider that reliable data. Heck when you break 14 on the boat, the bow wave/spray is nearly back by the shrouds. Transducer is what 4 1/2 or 5 feet forward of that?

 

Question, did the cockpit flood when you were going that fast? Serious question, because that is what happens when the boat goes that fast, the helmsman finds himself standing in a puddle.

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After your done and bored with the Bavaria, good luck selling it.

 

Want more info? Time to post some tits (preferably the admirals)

 

No compromise on that. Lol

 

Really too bad the 36.7 is out. Our phrf is 78 here. Your "accomplishments" (although impressive) No.6 with weight credits and 144% genoa is for pussies. The Great Lake 36.7's race with the 75/78 ratings wether they sail single handed or fully crewed flying a g-string, with no bitching by anyone.

All the 367's in LIS that do distance racing take the genoa credit and most take the weight credit.

The reason is that a 144% genoa is just as fast from 9 knots on up. There is a very slight deficit in speed at 6-7 knots of wind. Below 6, it is actually a bit faster So the 3 second credit is most worth it.

As for the weight credit. As it works out we can carry 8 people at an average weight of 185 lbs. Since that is right in our wheelhouse WRT the number we wish to sail with, why wouldn't we take the credit?

Handicap racing, whether IRC, ORR or PHRF, is about maximizing performance with the most favorable rating you can achieve.

 

Now the reason we don't have masthead kites with the necessary penalty pole is because the hit is 6 seconds, 9 if you go with asymms and use both a sprit and penalty pole. Since you tend to sail a lot of reaches in distance racing in the sound, we go with asymms flown off the standard pole and that have the same area as the class symmetricals. This works out well since you need to heat the boat up in lighter air anyhow. In that config we regularly beat a sistership that has the masthead asymms. He however elected to go with sprit only to maintain only a 6 second penalty. He also sails with a furling drum for 3 more seconds. Bit of BS as the genoas he has were built in a way that he can't furl them.

 

And yeah, we are the pussies. The idiots who decided it would be a good idea to race one to Bermuda. Shit the next thing you know you will be saying we were pussies for putting a keel shoe on that boat so it would measure in and pass the stability index.

 

I wonder why the boat was designed so light in the keel in the first place. We don't race and have thought about adding a shoe for some extra safety going outside of the golden gate.

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That is an excellent question-they definitely blew it in the displacement calculations-the addition of the shoe, which ultimately weighed in around 140, 150 pounds, IIRC, changed the boat feel dramatically. Much stiffer in breeze and easier to drive in slop. No. 6's comments regarding serious offshore capability are spot on-the boats are built well, we have pushed Shooting Star very hard at times and never broken anything meaningful-of course, we did upgrade all the running rigging, blocks etc. and we did hit close to 17 knots of actual boat speed at one point in the Vineyard Race couple years back, running asym strapped in, 40 knot plus gusts-- he was driving and don't think he could see the speedo with the spray blasting back around the cockpit--the skipper was just praying the thing didn't blow up, but that was in the Sound-kind of willing to go balls out with shores visible on both sides--during Bermuda 2008, we all watched the boat bend and twist, water dripping in around all the ports. Lifelines got very slack as the bow and stern tried to meet in the middle.

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I have and I like it.

 

Well if given the choice between a calibrated set of B&Gs and a calibrated set of RayMarine (I know, stop laughing), I would go with the B&Gs. However if I wanted to know how fast I was really going, I would rely on GPS and not a paddlewheel that is off centerline and way too far forward.

 

ALL paddlewheels suck. Anyone have success with the Ultrasonics?

 

http://www.airmartechnology.com/2009/products/marine-product.asp?prodid=68&manf=All

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That is an excellent question-they definitely blew it in the displacement calculations-the addition of the shoe, which ultimately weighed in around 140, 150 pounds, IIRC, changed the boat feel dramatically. Much stiffer in breeze and easier to drive in slop. No. 6's comments regarding serious offshore capability are spot on-the boats are built well, we have pushed Shooting Star very hard at times and never broken anything meaningful-of course, we did upgrade all the running rigging, blocks etc. and we did hit close to 17 knots of actual boat speed at one point in the Vineyard Race couple years back, running asym strapped in, 40 knot plus gusts-- he was driving and don't think he could see the speedo with the spray blasting back around the cockpit--the skipper was just praying the thing didn't blow up, but that was in the Sound-kind of willing to go balls out with shores visible on both sides--during Bermuda 2008, we all watched the boat bend and twist, water dripping in around all the ports. Lifelines got very slack as the bow and stern tried to meet in the middle.

I did not realize that 150 lbs would make that much of a difference as it only increases the B/D ratio from 27% to 28%. Not sure if you could add 500lbs without creating structural problems elsewhere.

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Btbotfa/# 6 so do you think the j37c or the c&c 37/40 (1990 model 40 ft) would do better in the trek to Bermuda or any other offshore setting? Both are cored hull and relatively light but have much higher ballast/displacement ratios

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mpbeagle: I can offer some insight ... hopefully it helps. My wife, kids and I cruise a larger sister ship of the 36.7, the 47.7. Quite frankly, we couldn't find a better balance between performance, low maintenance (build quality) and value.

 

We love the relatively high performance of the boat, lots of space, very well constructed and supported by Beneteau.

 

We found that for our purposes, we no longer fly the symmetrical chutes, but have a short bow prod to fly either a-sails or a Code-0. With this sail plan, handling is easy and we have great speed. In fact, we find in anything over about 6 knots, we sail.

 

The 36.7 has a great layout for the size. Cockpit is both workable and comfortable. Yanmar is reliable and well supported. Loads of insight on sails by all major sailmakers. Lots of used racing sails to make cruising fast. Value is great as most I have seen will be well under $100K after negotiations. No blisters. Lead keel.

 

Would I cross the Atlantic in a 36.7? I don't know. However, I doubt I would cross in any boat that size.

 

Several in this thread has concerns about the boat in big winds. May be fair comments for racing. In cruising mode, we shorten sail more readily and pick our crossings/passages based on weather windows. Personally, we have had several relatively comfortable trips over 30 knots with no incidents, concerns or breakages.

 

If I had a friend looking for a boat in this size, this would likely be my first suggestion.

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jacrider has it right, shortening sail and keeping the boat moving forward instead of sideways is key. In the last Vineyard Race, we had a deep reef and a three up and were passing boats, inc. J109s, Tripp 37s, with full mains and #1s. The hull shape doesn't quite dig in and accelerate in those powered up reach situations the way a J does-don't have much experience with the older C and C's but my choices there regarding integrity offshore might be more determined by the age of the boat rather than the initial build quality. As far as 500 pounds of additional ballast, I would think Farr would have to be consulted-but ur right, the add we did was minimal, the result exponential. As I said, we have pushed the boat hard, and nothing has failed, which speaks well to the quality of the build, but you do discover religion, speaking as the skipper, when the boat is in big breeze and you start feeling the the whole thing flexing.

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That is an excellent question-they definitely blew it in the displacement calculations-the addition of the shoe, which ultimately weighed in around 140, 150 pounds, IIRC, changed the boat feel dramatically. Much stiffer in breeze and easier to drive in slop. No. 6's comments regarding serious offshore capability are spot on-the boats are built well, we have pushed Shooting Star very hard at times and never broken anything meaningful-of course, we did upgrade all the running rigging, blocks etc. and we did hit close to 17 knots of actual boat speed at one point in the Vineyard Race couple years back, running asym strapped in, 40 knot plus gusts-- he was driving and don't think he could see the speedo with the spray blasting back around the cockpit--the skipper was just praying the thing didn't blow up, but that was in the Sound-kind of willing to go balls out with shores visible on both sides--during Bermuda 2008, we all watched the boat bend and twist, water dripping in around all the ports. Lifelines got very slack as the bow and stern tried to meet in the middle.

I did not realize that 150 lbs would make that much of a difference as it only increases the B/D ratio from 27% to 28%. Not sure if you could add 500lbs without creating structural problems elsewhere.

B/D is not the relevent metric. Think Righting Moment. It's not how much, it's where.

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Btbotfa/# 6 so do you think the j37c or the c&c 37/40 (1990 model 40 ft) would do better in the trek to Bermuda or any other offshore setting? Both are cored hull and relatively light but have much higher ballast/displacement ratios

Think you would be fine in a J37. The C&C 37/40 has a bit of an issue with the rudder post loading up from backstay tension, IIRC.

The trek out to Bermuda isn't all that daunting with the exception of the stream, so long as you pick a good window. South of the stream it is usually a pretty decent sail. Solid, fresh breeze but not excessive. North of the stream is also nothing too daunting. Breeze can be all over the place in velocity and direction but nothing severe.

The stream itself is a huge variable. Sometimes you only know you are near or in the stream from water temp rise and a marked increase in humidity. Other times it can be a nasty little stretch of water. The other thing is that the stream is prone to changeable conditions. All that warm humid water invites rapid weather changes and significant TS activity. It can go from a relatively placid place to a washing machine in a very short amount of time. When approaching a plan to manage the stream, it is best to look at it two differing ways. One is how you use the stream to your advantage to speed your trip south. The other is to have a back up plan as to how to get across the stream as quickly and safely as possible. That is to say, know where the exits are and how to get from where you are to them.

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

This is interesting stuff. Did you take this further and advise Beneteau/Farr of your findings? If so, what was the response?

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Why do people get hung up with a semi-race boat like the 36.7?

 

One word: Sabre 326.

 

We had gentleman's race/cruise on he weekend across the Strait (about 22 miles and back again) and I had the fortunate pleasure of being asked to sail on a (new to them) friend's 362. In light air (no one finished but close) the 362 had good pace on the 36.7(almost boat for boat for a long time) and if we had of finished it looks like me we would have won by corrected by a bunch. Sunday 8 to 20 knots with the 105% and a smallish gennaker up until it was too tight and windy to make that happen. Another 36.7 came out of nowhere just cruising along then we had "two" to pace with so there was no excuses. The 36.7's slowly crept on it but not against their PHRF no.s at around 80 compared to the Sabre at around 105.

 

Very, very sweet solid boat very well mannered with no quirks; and a real boat! I, the owner, his racing buddies were astonished it would do what it did. Very sweet ride indeed.

 

Talk about a happy owner!

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

This is interesting stuff. Did you take this further and advise Beneteau/Farr of your findings? If so, what was the response?

Stuey,

 

Bene and the class are TOTALLY aware that the the factory keel is nothing like the Farr templates.

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Why do people get hung up with a semi-race boat like the 36.7?

 

One word: Sabre 326.

 

We had gentleman's race/cruise on he weekend across the Strait (about 22 miles and back again) and I had the fortunate pleasure of being asked to sail on a (new to them) friend's 362. In light air (no one finished but close) the 362 had good pace on the 36.7(almost boat for boat for a long time) and if we had of finished it looks like me we would have won by corrected by a bunch. Sunday 8 to 20 knots with the 105% and a smallish gennaker up until it was too tight and windy to make that happen. Another 36.7 came out of nowhere just cruising along then we had "two" to pace with so there was no excuses. The 36.7's slowly crept on it but not against their PHRF no.s at around 80 compared to the Sabre at around 105.

 

Very, very sweet solid boat very well mannered with no quirks; and a real boat! I, the owner, his racing buddies were astonished it would do what it did. Very sweet ride indeed.

 

Talk about a happy owner!

 

reaching? cruising boats are heros against their rating in reaching races.

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

This is interesting stuff. Did you take this further and advise Beneteau/Farr of your findings? If so, what was the response?
Stuey,

 

Bene and the class are TOTALLY aware that the the factory keel is nothing like the Farr templates.

Hmmmmm. That's shite

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, design drawings and pictures of the shoe? How much did it cost you to add it?

 

I would for one be interested in a stiffer boat as I single or double hand every race.

thanks!

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Why do people get hung up with a semi-race boat like the 36.7?

 

One word: Sabre 326.

 

We had gentleman's race/cruise on he weekend across the Strait (about 22 miles and back again) and I had the fortunate pleasure of being asked to sail on a (new to them) friend's 362. In light air (no one finished but close) the 362 had good pace on the 36.7(almost boat for boat for a long time) and if we had of finished it looks like me we would have won by corrected by a bunch. Sunday 8 to 20 knots with the 105% and a smallish gennaker up until it was too tight and windy to make that happen. Another 36.7 came out of nowhere just cruising along then we had "two" to pace with so there was no excuses. The 36.7's slowly crept on it but not against their PHRF no.s at around 80 compared to the Sabre at around 105.

 

Very, very sweet solid boat very well mannered with no quirks; and a real boat! I, the owner, his racing buddies were astonished it would do what it did. Very sweet ride indeed.

 

Talk about a happy owner!

 

reaching? cruising boats are heros against their rating in reaching races.

Okay bucko - the light air was upwind on the Saturday and kept pace. This isn't my first rodeo all right?

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Why do people get hung up with a semi-race boat like the 36.7?

 

One word: Sabre 326.

 

We had gentleman's race/cruise on he weekend across the Strait (about 22 miles and back again) and I had the fortunate pleasure of being asked to sail on a (new to them) friend's 362. In light air (no one finished but close) the 362 had good pace on the 36.7(almost boat for boat for a long time) and if we had of finished it looks like me we would have won by corrected by a bunch. Sunday 8 to 20 knots with the 105% and a smallish gennaker up until it was too tight and windy to make that happen. Another 36.7 came out of nowhere just cruising along then we had "two" to pace with so there was no excuses. The 36.7's slowly crept on it but not against their PHRF no.s at around 80 compared to the Sabre at around 105.

 

Very, very sweet solid boat very well mannered with no quirks; and a real boat! I, the owner, his racing buddies were astonished it would do what it did. Very sweet ride indeed.

 

Talk about a happy owner!

 

reaching? cruising boats are heros against their rating in reaching races.

Okay bucko - the light air was upwind on the Saturday and kept pace. This isn't my first rodeo all right?

chill brother.

 

No disrespect, just simple facts. The 367 owes the 362 40 seconds a mile. Almost all of that is due to upwind capability. On reaches, the sabre will be in the ballpark, as will most modern boats with similar waterlines. Upwind, unless the the 367 is being driven by a turd, they will be put away and drunk before the Sabre finishes.

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Why do people get hung up with a semi-race boat like the 36.7?

 

One word: Sabre 326.

 

We had gentleman's race/cruise on he weekend across the Strait (about 22 miles and back again) and I had the fortunate pleasure of being asked to sail on a (new to them) friend's 362. In light air (no one finished but close) the 362 had good pace on the 36.7(almost boat for boat for a long time) and if we had of finished it looks like me we would have won by corrected by a bunch. Sunday 8 to 20 knots with the 105% and a smallish gennaker up until it was too tight and windy to make that happen. Another 36.7 came out of nowhere just cruising along then we had "two" to pace with so there was no excuses. The 36.7's slowly crept on it but not against their PHRF no.s at around 80 compared to the Sabre at around 105.

 

Very, very sweet solid boat very well mannered with no quirks; and a real boat! I, the owner, his racing buddies were astonished it would do what it did. Very sweet ride indeed.

 

Talk about a happy owner!

 

reaching? cruising boats are heros against their rating in reaching races.

Okay bucko - the light air was upwind on the Saturday and kept pace. This isn't my first rodeo all right?

 

"Bucko" ?......LMFAO......

 

I wish this gentlemens race/cruise took place before I purchased my 36.7.....that one and only experience you had would have sold me right way.......damn I could have been a happy owner like you.

a Sabre 326? whoda thought

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

This is interesting stuff. Did you take this further and advise Beneteau/Farr of your findings? If so, what was the response?

Too funny.

The response from both Beneteau and Farr was a e-mail of congratulations.

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, design drawings and pictures of the shoe? How much did it cost you to add it?

 

I would for one be interested in a stiffer boat as I single or double hand every race.

thanks!

All that was done was a plywood template was made of the bottom of the keel. Then several cut outs were made to form a plug which then a sand cast mold was made. You could do the same with plaster of paris. Some scrap lead was melted and poured.

IIRC the thing was held on by 5, 3/8"x 6" stainless steel lag bolts and epoxy schmooze.

I don't have any pics but I do believe that a few were posted on SA back when. Keel design is available from Farr.

Don't recall the cost.

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

This is interesting stuff. Did you take this further and advise Beneteau/Farr of your findings? If so, what was the response?

Stuey,

 

Bene and the class are TOTALLY aware that the the factory keel is nothing like the Farr templates.

Which is one of the reasons that french built 367's are not class legal in North America.

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

This is interesting stuff. Did you take this further and advise Beneteau/Farr of your findings? If so, what was the response?
Too funny.

The response from both Beneteau and Farr was a e-mail of congratulations.

Post the email. I am sure it would tell all

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They weren't to me, they were to JD. He shared them with us but I don't retain those sorts of things. The basic wording was along the lines of, 'Congratulations to the skipper and crew of Tenacious on their Bermuda Race win.' Not much more substance than that.

One of the crew's dad had a relationship with Ted Turner through CNN. Mr. Turner also saw fit to send a congratulatory e-mail. Something about his Tenacious was never able to win it all but he was proud that a Tenacious was.

 

Anyhow it is a great story...even if it wasn't "our" story. But it was a time ago.

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While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

This is interesting stuff. Did you take this further and advise Beneteau/Farr of your findings? If so, what was the response?

Stuey,

 

Bene and the class are TOTALLY aware that the the factory keel is nothing like the Farr templates.

From what I could find it looks like the Euro deep keel model is 3839 lbs vs 3549 for the North American version.

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That sorta mirrors my experience - did down the bay race and finished in 30 to 38 kt gusts..was surfing off smith pt - 16.9 kts max speed. we shredded the carbon #3, but had the chicken main up (built for carribean 36.7 is about 2 ft short on luff and 1 ft on foot), was pretty much close to a little forward of DDW, needed a blast 5.0 oz code O lol and i would have done a little better. No water in cockpit aft at all, never broached, but didnt fly a chute except first 10 mins of start.

 

The guys from joisey (hooliga - X-pegasus) raced against us with a full main and blade, we pulled away in potomac river after their vang blew out.

 

1D is dead on the bay - would love to think about a removable shoe as even with 10 people on the main does not do a lot of work in heavier winds.

Wife loves the boat and FC sailed his VERY VERY well..we put our deposit down the week after Julien won...

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After your done and bored with the Bavaria, good luck selling it.

 

Want more info? Time to post some tits (preferably the admirals)

 

No compromise on that. Lol

 

Really too bad the 36.7 is out. Our phrf is 78 here. Your "accomplishments" (although impressive) No.6 with weight credits and 144% genoa is for pussies. The Great Lake 36.7's race with the 75/78 ratings wether they sail single handed or fully crewed flying a g-string, with no bitching by anyone.

All the 367's in LIS that do distance racing take the genoa credit and most take the weight credit.

The reason is that a 144% genoa is just as fast from 9 knots on up. There is a very slight deficit in speed at 6-7 knots of wind. Below 6, it is actually a bit faster So the 3 second credit is most worth it.

As for the weight credit. As it works out we can carry 8 people at an average weight of 185 lbs. Since that is right in our wheelhouse WRT the number we wish to sail with, why wouldn't we take the credit?

Handicap racing, whether IRC, ORR or PHRF, is about maximizing performance with the most favorable rating you can achieve.

 

Now the reason we don't have masthead kites with the necessary penalty pole is because the hit is 6 seconds, 9 if you go with asymms and use both a sprit and penalty pole. Since you tend to sail a lot of reaches in distance racing in the sound, we go with asymms flown off the standard pole and that have the same area as the class symmetricals. This works out well since you need to heat the boat up in lighter air anyhow. In that config we regularly beat a sistership that has the masthead asymms. He however elected to go with sprit only to maintain only a 6 second penalty. He also sails with a furling drum for 3 more seconds. Bit of BS as the genoas he has were built in a way that he can't furl them.

 

And yeah, we are the pussies. The idiots who decided it would be a good idea to race one to Bermuda. Shit the next thing you know you will be saying we were pussies for putting a keel shoe on that boat so it would measure in and pass the stability index.

 

I wonder why the boat was designed so light in the keel in the first place. We don't race and have thought about adding a shoe for some extra safety going outside of the golden gate.

Ay Caliente raced the Ocean series here from SF bay for a few years and had no issues with stability. You just need to get out and sail the thing in all conditions available here, tune the rig for the prevailing conditions and reef when needed. I never did any ocean racing on Bufflehead as the cost of the ever increasing safety equipment and the tendency for some of my regular crew to barf when only sailing to Bonita put me off.

The boat can be "tender" here but is certainly not unmanageable. It's like a Ford station wagon with the big V-8, fun to rip around in, but still a ford wagon not a Mercedes sport utility.

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That sorta mirrors my experience - did down the bay race and finished in 30 to 38 kt gusts..was surfing off smith pt - 16.9 kts max speed. we shredded the carbon #3, but had the chicken main up (built for carribean 36.7 is about 2 ft short on luff and 1 ft on foot), was pretty much close to a little forward of DDW, needed a blast 5.0 oz code O lol and i would have done a little better. No water in cockpit aft at all, never broached, but didnt fly a chute except first 10 mins of start.

 

Wife loves the boat and FC sailed his VERY VERY well..we put our deposit down the week after Julien won...

Bruce T. Shark,

Glad you are enjoying your 36.7. So, you topped out at 16.9 kts DW hauling ass down the Bay. Very cool! We never got FC moving quite that fast... best we did was ~15 kts. Didn't see water in cockpit either. We had crew packed into back end and still had bow down with ass-end riding high in the Chesapeake "surf". Lots of fun!

Hope we see you and Bev out on the Bay, or at least at SP party(s)until we can get next boat.

Thanks John!

...FC

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I also remember that we skied all the halyards and installed a kevlar backstay, and we just made the SI. That was an interesting day.

While a great deal has been made of the shoe, shoe-gate et al, it wasn't really all that radical. It was only on the order of 1.5 to 1.75 inches thick. The entire process or mindset was to raise the stability index from 114 degrees to north of 115 degrees, which is the required SI to do the race. When we first started looking into the idea, Julien and I went around measuring different 367 keels to see what they came in at depth wise. The numbers were a bit all over the place with a variation of like 1.25 inches. Tenacious was on the short end of the stick while a boat called Promises Kept was the deepest and would have probably passed the SI inclination without any modification. Next we contacted Farr and got a copy of the keel drawing. What we discovered is that none of the boats we had measured came close to the intended keel design. PK was like .25 shy and Tenacious was 1.5 inches shy. So the shoe we cast was designed to bring the boat in compliance with the original design.

When the inclination tests were preformed, the boat narrowly passed and only after we moved some gear stowed aft into the center of the boat.

When we first sea trialed the boat with the shoe, the performance increase was immediately noticeable. In the 12-14 knots of breeze we had the boat had a noticeably better motion. She was faster and stiffer and both JD and I were grinning at what the shoe did for the boat.

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The boat tracks like a beachball. That is to say it just doesn't track at all.

The wheel is too small.

The head is too small.

The boat is under powered downwind.

The boat is over powered upwind except in less that say 10-11 knots.

The boat will not point in under 7-8 knots of breeze. Tacking angles will be like 100 degrees in the light stuff.

If you are not racing class or are racing PHRF or IRC etc., go with a 144% genoa.

If you are racing handicap, an A-3 is essential. Would also consider an A-2 and A-4.

The shoal draft boat cannot point as high as the deep draft version. However, the stability index of the shoal draft boat is a bit higher.

 

 

The stock steering ratio is like 1.25:1 (IIRC), if not already done, you would want change that to 1:1. Easy to do and class legal.

They are okay offshore but calling them "built like a tank" is a bit optimistic. In over 25+ knots of breeze you start to question your sanity and if racing you will be considering slowing the boat down for safety sake.

No. 6,

Curious about your experience on the boat. Lots of races logged? Were you an owner? If so, how long?

Thanks.

...FC

Your old 36.7 still sports the name "Foxtrot Corpen". Saw her just a couple days ago. Took a pic and will download it here.

 

The new owners are not racing it.

 

As an old OS who spent many a year on "small boys" trying to not get run over by carriers, the name got my attention in a hurry.

 

Turned out the owners didn't really even know what "Fox Corpen" meant.

 

cheers

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Your old 36.7 still sports the name "Foxtrot Corpen". Saw her just a couple days ago. Took a pic and will download it here.

 

The new owners are not racing it.

 

As an old OS who spent many a year on "small boys" trying to not get run over by carriers, the name got my attention in a hurry.

 

Turned out the owners didn't really even know what "Fox Corpen" meant.

 

cheers

 

 

Sidmon,

 

Happy to hear the new owners are getting out there with FC. I had been told by the my broker that the buyers were going to cruise for a while before getting into racing. I only did a couple of cruises over the years. But put plenty of miles under the keel with 8 years of deliveries to/from Annapolis for 1D racing as well as local Bay racing out of Solomons.

 

The name, "Foxtrot Corpen" came from my time spent "driving" USS America (CV-66) as an OOD. Glad we never ran over you guys! :) I'm surprised the new owners had not googled the name/flags to see what it means. In the years we traveled with FC, we always got a lot of questions about the origin of the name... as well as compliments on the "cool" boat.

 

Thanks Sidmon!

 

...FC

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I have a Hanse 370

PHRF 105 in my area. They sail very well on all points of sail. Most are set up for asym kites with factory installed sprit (small).

Very comfortable down below huge v berth and aft cabins are fine as well.

Two cabin model has very large galley for a 37 footer.

Self tacking jib for cruising or racing in a blow is nice too.

Build strength ???

Rated A offshore

On the owners site many have indicated ocean crossings and many are in Baltic North Sea so they do hold up apparently.

Downside is that they are not very old so the price (used) will be significantly higher than 36.7

The Hanse 400 has a 60 or so ??? PHRF is another option, newer Hanse's are more "cruisy"

 

No I am not a dealer broker or share holder

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I've more than just a little offshore experience. I have done the Vic-Maui on a Stevens 47. I have raced a 36.7 for several years. While I wouldnt buy the 36.7 for the admirals and my liveabord/ longrange cruising plans, I WOULD sail it across the Atlantic. I am planning on doing Vic Maui on the 36.7 and then being the delivery skipper home. I have no doubts of a (well prepared) 36.7 with a competent crew to make that trip safely.

 

The 47.7 has WON Vic-Maui (2x-3x?) and sailed to australia for the Sydney - Hobart, then back do do vic maui again! Sure it's bigger, but it DOES come from the same factory.

 

Well prepared and competent are the key words here.

 

For your plans the 36.7 would be a grrrrreat boat.

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I've done about 2500 miles on a 367, all in Lake Michigan. I like the boat, though it take some getting used to. (Square cockpit, example.)

 

I think it would be a great cruising boat. A lot of what makes it a hand-full when racing wouldn't be a factor when cruising. I'm thinking of things like the sail restrictions in the class rules.

 

Slim

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Sidmon,

 

Happy to hear the new owners are getting out there with FC. I had been told by the my broker that the buyers were going to cruise for a while before getting into racing. I only did a couple of cruises over the years. But put plenty of miles under the keel with 8 years of deliveries to/from Annapolis for 1D racing as well as local Bay racing out of Solomons.

 

The name, "Foxtrot Corpen" came from my time spent "driving" USS America (CV-66) as an OOD. Glad we never ran over you guys! :) I'm surprised the new owners had not googled the name/flags to see what it means. In the years we traveled with FC, we always got a lot of questions about the origin of the name... as well as compliments on the "cool" boat.

 

Thanks Sidmon!

 

...FC

 

"Fox Corpen" is very certainly at the confluence of the Aero and Nautical!

 

Its allll about the wind...

 

Followed the America around for a couple deployments too. One was in the IO at the height of the Monsoon. There was a fine brown dust like talcum powder all over the boat even a 1000 miles at sea. Rough as a cob too. She lost 2 F-14's in a couple days in deck accidents as I remember. One was swept off the elevator by seas as they were moving it into the hangar deck. The other in a deep roll while being towed on the flight deck.

 

You could imagine what it was like for us!!

 

Anyway, here is a pic of your old boat:

 

10563981824_532656ab34_c.jpg

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Well if given the choice between a calibrated set of B&Gs and a calibrated set of RayMarine (I know, stop laughing), I would go with the B&Gs. However if I wanted to know how fast I was really going, I would rely on GPS and not a paddlewheel that is off centerline and way too far forward.

 

ALL paddlewheels suck. Anyone have success with the Ultrasonics?

 

http://www.airmartechnology.com/2009/products/marine-product.asp?prodid=68&manf=All

agree my i phones gps works fine and its always in my pocket

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The airmar works just fine. In my 36.7, I have 2. They are about 2.5 inches from the centerline and a 1 3/4 from the forward "bulkhead". it did make a significant difference. At one time I had the airmar in the original thruhull (?) and another in a new thruhull on the port side of the keel (2.5 inches from the centerline and a 1 3/4 from the forward "bulkhead") the difference in readings was significant (2-5 tens of Knot) so I decided to patch the original hole and make another symmetric hole to the one in the port side. Now speeds read very similar. I had the boat towed in ship canal (here in Seattle) after the first bridge and with 10-12 degrees of heel both sensors read the same. Yes not a real sailing environment but good enough to calibrate them.

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