• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

alpha

Oracle tactics

Recommended Posts

Not too impressed with the tactics on Oracle. They had a nice lead in race three and then threw in an extra tack to chase ETNZ to the starboard boundary. ETNZ tacks and Oracle lets them go. Two extra tacks to let them go. Just giving it away.

 

That got ETNZ back in the race and just close enough for Oracle to forget that they couldn't force ETNZ to tack back onto starboard when they where at the boundary. By the time Oracle realized what was going on they had to throw in a bad tack and the wrong time and race over.

 

It's less about tacking speed and acceleration and more about not making dumb mistakes.

 

The crowning moment was Oracle tacking away when they where bow out and in front of ETNZ. You don't win races like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anyone else get the feeling that their first mark tactics, ie: inside and try to draw a foul, is because they know ETNZ is faster and they need either get ahead or early or try and draw a foul to win? of course, race4 seems to indicate maybe a little different in breeze, but that was my inclination after the first 3...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anyone else get the feeling that their first mark tactics, ie: inside and try to draw a foul, is because they know ETNZ is faster and they need either get ahead or early or try and draw a foul to win? of course, race4 seems to indicate maybe a little different in breeze, but that was my inclination after the first 3...

No, it is because it costs them nothing to have a go in that situation and that situation will be available every time that they are the inside boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

anyone else get the feeling that their first mark tactics, ie: inside and try to draw a foul, is because they know ETNZ is faster and they need either get ahead or early or try and draw a foul to win? of course, race4 seems to indicate maybe a little different in breeze, but that was my inclination after the first 3...

No, it is because it costs them nothing to have a go in that situation and that situation will be available every time that they are the inside boat.
Really? I haven't see it pay off one time, including in the LV, with the exception of AC race 4. I still don't understand why NZ headed up so far to allow it to work then.

Seems that if NZ stays to windward just enough to avoid a penalty, they take the windward mark. Hell, they even made up the deficit WITH a penalty in race 3. JS definitely seems to like the Leeward position though, wich seems to suit DB just fine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

anyone else get the feeling that their first mark tactics, ie: inside and try to draw a foul, is because they know ETNZ is faster and they need either get ahead or early or try and draw a foul to win? of course, race4 seems to indicate maybe a little different in breeze, but that was my inclination after the first 3...

No, it is because it costs them nothing to have a go in that situation and that situation will be available every time that they are the inside boat.
Really? I haven't see it pay off one time, including in the LV, with the exception of AC race 4. I still don't understand why NZ headed up so far to allow it to work then.

Seems that if NZ stays to windward just enough to avoid a penalty, they take the windward mark. Hell, they even made up the deficit WITH a penalty in race 3.

If they are overlapped when they enter the zone (and IMHO Oracle is the faster boat reaching) then it will pay every time.

 

Especially if they push them up past the mark as then the boundary comes into play for the first gybe. Strong move and if they can nail their TOD and starting every time then they will do it every time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't seen an overlap at the first mark before today.

 

That luff poked ETNZ up, and while they were still going up, OR got on with bearing away, and they got themselves a nice little bit of separation with it. No-luff would have resulted NZ being able to round down tight with them and just to weather.

 

Not that they wouldn't have loved to get a foul, or anything, but that didn't strike me as being the primary reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't seen an overlap at the first mark before today.

 

That luff poked ETNZ up, and while they were still going up, OR got on with bearing away, and they got themselves a nice little bit of separation with it. No-luff would have resulted NZ being able to round down tight with them and just to weather.

 

Not that they wouldn't have loved to get a foul, or anything, but that didn't strike me as being the primary reason.

Exaclty this ^^^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, oracle messed up in race 3 by going round the wrong mark at mark 2 if they'd selected the right hand mark they'd have protected the right and been in tide relief at the cone, rather than going into foul tide and handing the advantage to the kiwis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ JS seems more confident to 'flick his boat about' - even in the middle of a rounding (they took this to extremes in their in-house practice). He got away with it but there was a bit of bows under that could become a problem, maybe?

 

The coordination onboard is critical to staying up and keeping the minimum speed through a manoeuvre high, my guess is that ETNZ were more hesitant to jink and then fall off around the mark immediately - as they were thrown off in their timing by JS's attack - even though they had seemed to leave more room than in R3, hoping to avoid another penalty.

 

At the speeds they are doing the whole mark rounding/penalty situation seems a bit of a lottery, even seems unclear to the crews exactly what's going on!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMHO, oracle messed up in race 3 by going round the wrong mark at mark 2 if they'd selected the right hand mark they'd have protected the right and been in tide relief at the cone, rather than going into foul tide and handing the advantage to the kiwis

yeeeaaahhh! That's what I thought to.

 

Also the starboard tack advantage is huge in these boats and covers a huge area or ocean for the port boat to Get around. Probably 65+ metres If both are even before the cross.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites