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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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theParadoxOfThrift

ETNZ vs OTUSA, races 8 & 9 (09/14)

719 posts in this topic

Will Oracle take another race or are ETNZ heading for match point?

 

I've been waiting for this point for years and now it's upon us part of me doesn't want it to end!

 

What changes could Oracle possibly do to the boat to somehow make gains?

 

This was the noticeboard at ETNZ on day 4, from a mate who was there:

 

post-8605-0-78774400-1379048553_thumb.jpg

 

I'd suggest they would have posted the NZ Herald cover to take the piss out of 'Cool Cat' Dean Barker more than anything else.

 

 

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You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

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Oracle will win 9-7.

Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

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Its bad for OR, Not many wind conditions left. Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

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How many more will OR win?

 

Before today they looked every bit like they could string a couple together, but the last three races have been emphatic wins for TNZ.

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How many more will OR win?

 

Before today they looked every bit like they could string a couple together, but the last three races have been emphatic wins for TNZ.

 

They got a couple up their sleeve I think. Prob clear their penalty. Maybe become competitive at the final hour

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You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

I agree that the forums are much better this time around. Last time I really do think there were some fully paid by the post Alinghi trolls who's only job was to muddy the waters and make the whole forum so unbearable that we would all go away.

 

This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.

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Its bad for OR, Not many wind conditions left. Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

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Oracle will win 9-7.

Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

If OR does something like that there is nothing stopping the jury to DSQ Oracle and awarding points to ETNZ. I mean if the jury finds that adding a few millimeters here and a few kg there on a AC45 is gross misconduct, what would you say crushing another boat would be???

But hopefully you were joking...

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Its bad for OR, Not many wind conditions left. Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat. Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!

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Its bad for OR, Not many wind conditions left. Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat. Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!

But they would still have ETNZ coming over and give them shitty wind on the upwind leg, you surly can't ignore that without falling further behind....

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Its bad for OR, Not many wind conditions left. Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat. Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!

But they would still have ETNZ coming over and give them shitty wind on the upwind leg, you surly can't ignore that without falling further behind....

 

Agreed. Its last ditch effort at this point.

 

Win the start, wind the reach, wind the downwind leg, and hit the boundaries, no tacking until boundaries are hit.

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You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

 

JHC, what a tosser. What unbelievable hubris.

 

Have you posted a pic of your girlfriend's/wife's tits?

 

Fuck off noobie.

 

Romain

 

 

 

ps:

 

I can't imagine how this could last past Sunday unless ETNZ breaks.

 

I feel genuinely sorry for Larry's minions - this has to be wildly embarassing for them being beaten consistently by a piece of agricultural equipment.

 

However, it ain't over 'til it's over.

 

R

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You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

 

JHC, what a tosser. What unbelievable hubris.

 

Have you posted a pic of your girlfriend's/wife's tits?

 

Fuck off noobie.

 

Romain

 

 

 

ps:

 

I can't imagine how this could last past Sunday unless ETNZ breaks.

 

I feel genuinely sorry for Larry's minions - this has to be wildly embarassing for them being beaten consistently by a piece of agricultural equipment.

 

However, it ain't over 'til it's over.

 

R

WTF?

 

Romain, do you really want me to post a picture of your spouse's breast(s)?

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Its bad for OR, Not many wind conditions left. Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Anything that makes the water rougher or the wind lighter will only benefit ETNZ.

 

Wind lighter -> tacks cost more cos boat moving at a (relatively) glacial pace and OR will have more trouble staying on foils downwind

Water rougher -> Fine bows will bury in more upwind.

 

Other than 0 knots of breeze I can't think of a single condition that they will be able to match ETNZ

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Any locals with a good prediction of the weather forecast for the races on Saturday and Sunday?

 

Would be interesting to see races in both the light and heavy end of the possible range. Who knows, we might never see these boats sail again after Sunday!

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Its bad for OR, Not many wind conditions left. Maybe an ebb tide on the upwind to shorten the length???

 

Thursday's races revealed all.

 

Was race 4 (OR's win) an ebb tide? High winds, and seemed to me the most choppy water we've had.

Maybe that is the best chance OR has of nullifying ETNZ's upwind advantage.

 

 

If I was OR I would sail the race like ENTZ is not even there - basically a speed trial - dont even look at the other boat. Minimize the tacks but mode the boat for speed NOT tacking!

 

This is their only chance!!!!

But they would still have ETNZ coming over and give them shitty wind on the upwind leg, you surly can't ignore that without falling further behind....

 

Agreed. Its last ditch effort at this point.

 

Win the start, wind the reach, wind the downwind leg, and hit the boundaries, no tacking until boundaries are hit.

 

Trouble is that there are enough tacks even if they pinball off the boundaries for OR to lose.

Take race 4 out of the equation, it was due to gear failure. OR cannot match ETNZ under any circumstances

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You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

 

"hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" :)

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Oracle better put every mod they have on the boat today, or tomorrow is going to be 2 more losses.

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Oracle better put every mod they have on the boat today, or tomorrow is going to be 2 more losses.

 

I can't see any mods closing the game and frankly they might accidentally make things worse.

They won't have time to test the changes on the water or in the computer, so it is all pretty hit and miss.,

 

Whats more, there are a bunch fundamental differences contributing to the differences upwind that OR have no way of replicating.

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Take race 4 out of the equation, it was due to gear failure. OR cannot match ETNZ under any circumstances

 

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere -- was this ever confirmed?

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OR have a new Measurement Certificate...but so does ETNZ.

 

Would be so funny if OR came out with pie warmers....But lets be honest what can they change?? Don't have time or weight quota to make hull changes....No time to build anymore foils or rudders...No time to change the foil boxes...They can change the wing rake (although they did that the other day before running home to momma). So what is left...A new jib perhaps (desperation with no testing)....Nothing is going to stop the bows digging in and interestingly in the post race on board interview with Spithill, when asked what design changes could be made...Spithill suggested that the designs were basically locked in...After months of 2 boat testing we have seen the best OR can throw at us....They have been left wanting...

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Take race 4 out of the equation, it was due to gear failure. OR cannot match ETNZ under any circumstances

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere -- was this ever confirmed?

On the radio Dalts said it wasn't a mechanical problem but how they use the hydraulics in that wind mode that was the issue. All fixed now though

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OR have a new Measurement Certificate...but so does ETNZ.

 

Oooh, can't wait to try to pick out the differences.

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

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Okay locals..Probably most important question is what is the wind/tide doing tomorrow...I hear we will have ebb with a bit of breeze....local observations much appreciated..

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

 

I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote

 

My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.

 

(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)

 

Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to

 

Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>

 

There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.

 

I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.

 

IF (big if) troo . . . .

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

Major fuckup imo. b2 should have added volume. Morelli talks about the hundreds of hull shapes they modeled and they came back to the same basic shape, the current TNZ form. It is the best shape/volume possible. Not pencil hulls with no volume. Somebody fucked up at OR.

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

Major fuckup imo. b2 should have added volume. Morelli talks about the hundreds of hull shapes they modeled and they came back to the same basic shape, the current TNZ form. It is the best shape/volume possible. Not pencil hulls with no volume. Somebody fucked up at OR.

 

Its all very well to see that in hindsight, but they had a LOT of people smarter and more knowledgeable that us working on it.

And its not like their boat is slow like Artemis' boat is it? Its off the pace, but it aint a piece of crap.

It would certainly kick the shit out of ETNZ's boat 1, which is one reason to pray out boat stays in one piece

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So windy with an ebb tide.

 

I wonder if there is a risk that OR might push to hard and bury the nose in for a repeat of the Orpocalypse?

I hope they are smart enough to throw the race if it gets to that point.

They got lucky with no injuries the first time, there is no guarantees they would be as lucky again.

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First leg's in: AB's thrash the Jappies again, and the Rugby Championship sealed for 2013.

 

Second leg in 11 hours...

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No more races for Oracle they are officially GONE.! The Kiwis are winning from behind, what more do you want..? Grant Dalton is already planning the next design and has written 3 variations of his victory speech....Oracle have never done well at the LVC or the AC, this time is no exception. I doubt Larry will do another one, shit he hired the so-called best guys in the world and they are getting smashed. I can't see anybody beating the Kiwis for years and years and I can't see more than 4 teams next time around. Sadly for New Zealand the next AC will be a battle, not sure hat they can do with it to make it a success.?

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I am conserned that, if tomorrow bringz a new set of condishuns the botes hav not lyned up in,

there iz a chants that OR coud be the faster bote. Not big, but not tiny.

 

And any mods thay ar making at this late staidje are (STM) mor lykly to diminish than to increess

any sutsh chants, becoz all the lo hanging froot will alreddy have been well and trolly plundered.

 

 

Becoz peepel lyk LE are notorius for demanding that "Sumthing be dun", thay seem to me lykly to

fall into the trap of generalz alwayz fyting the last battell. Last mode chayndje woz a caess in poynt.

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First leg's in: AB's thrash the Jappies again, and the Rugby Championship sealed for 2013.

 

Second leg in 11 hours...

what was the score?

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote

 

My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.

 

(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)

 

Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to

 

Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>

 

There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.

 

I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.

 

IF (big if) troo . . . .

I honestly cant see that happening. That would be as desperate a change as ...................hhhmmmmmm maybe it would be the most desperate change in AC history? Fisher would know....

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

that'll be why their so called "2 boat testing" was a waste of time. they should have been testing dissimilar designs if they wanted to drive improvements. i guess that's why they were always trying to line up with lr and tnz? they'll be totally bbq'd on sunday. :)

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very easy! starboard/port incident at the start or during the upwind leg....Oracle get a dsq for that race. Then they start the remaining races with new boats. It will be very difficult to prove that it was a volontary collision, so no chance to get a dsq for the entire series.

 

I hope that Larry's crew will be sportmen and avoid this type of strategy.

 

We have seen this happening in F1 it can happen in AC expecially as Oracle owner has already proven his unsportmanship attitude....

 

 

Oracle will win 9-7.
Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

If OR does something like that there is nothing stopping the jury to DSQ Oracle and awarding points to ETNZ. I mean if the jury finds that adding a few millimeters here and a few kg there on a AC45 is gross misconduct, what would you say crushing another boat would be???

But hopefully you were joking...

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They are not going to purposely ram their boat into ETNZ purely because they aren't fast enough. Morally it is so wrong and anything could happen including possibly killing a person.

 

They are sailors on a yacht, they aren't murderous villans!

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Blown out today?

 

From the NWS:

SW WINDS 5 TO 15 KT...INCREASING TO 15 TO 25 KT BY LATE MORNING.

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote

 

My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.

 

(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)

 

Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to

 

Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>

 

There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.

 

I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.

 

IF (big if) troo . . . .

I honestly cant see that happening. That would be as desperate a change as ...................hhhmmmmmm maybe it would be the most desperate change in AC history? Fisher would know....

 

I think it was NCS who said 10 new boatbuilders came to Oracle not to long ago. He seems like a pretty reliable source.

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Just laughed my ass off.

 

Sums the commentary up completely!

 

Kinda miss Tweedle-tucker-dee and Tweedle-andy-dum in tandem from the early days of the LV round robins farce.

 

"Great stuff" :)

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We might see a change today. The downwind will be longer and the upwind shorter with the Ebb.

14 Sa  0349  0653 3.1F  1011(Slack)  1224 2.1E  1552(Slack)  1841 2.4F  2133(Slack)

If Oracle have the lead at the bottom they won't need to short tack up the cone, but could extend after the Leeward gate (Towards City front) for better Ebb and sail up the middle of the course. The first 30% of leg three has been an issue. The Ebb should help them out a little.

 

Wait and see.

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very easy! starboard/port incident at the start or during the upwind leg....Oracle get a dsq for that race. Then they start the remaining races with new boats. It will be very difficult to prove that it was a volontary collision, so no chance to get a dsq for the entire series.

 

I hope that Larry's crew will be sportmen and avoid this type of strategy.

 

We have seen this happening in F1 it can happen in AC expecially as Oracle owner has already proven his unsportmanship attitude....

 

 

 

 

Oracle will win 9-7.

Since they want to keep the Cup the only solution for them is to crush into Nzl get dsq for that race. Then use the identical twin spare boat to beat Nzl as Nzl does not have an identical ready to race spare boat.

 

If OR does something like that there is nothing stopping the jury to DSQ Oracle and awarding points to ETNZ. I mean if the jury finds that adding a few millimeters here and a few kg there on a AC45 is gross misconduct, what would you say crushing another boat would be???

But hopefully you were joking...

I don't think this is ever going to happen, but if a big collision did happen, remember that rudderangle, 10+ onboard tv cameras, soundrecording etc would document it all. Nobody should expect even OR to fall that low.

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Okay locals..Probably most important question is what is the wind/tide doing tomorrow...I hear we will have ebb with a bit of breeze....local observations much appreciated..

Not the wind Biggest question now is how much longer Larry will let Jimmy Spit spin the wheels. Two more losses, possibly even only one more, and he's off.

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We might see a change today. The downwind will be longer and the upwind shorter with the Ebb.

14 Sa  0349  0653 3.1F  1011(Slack)  1224 2.1E  1552(Slack)  1841 2.4F  2133(Slack)

If Oracle have the lead at the bottom they won't need to short tack up the cone, but could extend after the Leeward gate (Towards City front) for better Ebb and sail up the middle of the course. The first 30% of leg three has been an issue. The Ebb should help them out a little.

 

Wait and see.

haggers, are you back in sf?

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We might see a change today. The downwind will be longer and the upwind shorter with the Ebb.

14 Sa  0349  0653 3.1F  1011(Slack)  1224 2.1E  1552(Slack)  1841 2.4F  2133(Slack)

If Oracle have the lead at the bottom they won't need to short tack up the cone, but could extend after the Leeward gate (Towards City front) for better Ebb and sail up the middle of the course. The first 30% of leg three has been an issue. The Ebb should help them out a little.

 

Wait and see.

haggers, are you back in sf?

Copy - Since Feb -

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Predicting 28 knot gusts now. Might re-set the wake-up call.

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GD figures if OR changes bows they'd have to shave 15-18kg from elsewhere.

 

One way might be to go with the shorter (and presumably lighter) sprit that we saw on one occasion; since it can't fly a Zero they could also remove a winch. If we see that obvious change then it could be the early tipoff.

 

But I'm pretty skeptical they will have done surgery that big in just 36 hours; and skeptical they have other bows even if they wanted to.

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I don't think its the bows, the speed difference is elsewhere, maybe the LET and the foil package, somewhat the rocker in the hulls.

 

Whacking the bows off for another set is not going to make that big a change.

 

Remember the new rudder in VLC in '07? Better in the computer but not on the water with no time to test and adjust.

 

Has anybody been able to make a direct comparison of the OR foils to ETNZ's? I think you would find more there than in the bows.

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^ They can't change boat without unrepairable damage. So a change just to get another boat wouldn't be allowed.

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This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.

Name one, if you can.

 

WetHog

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So the question begs - why did OR build two boats with almost the same hulls????

 

The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls - they are dead nuts the same.

 

I bet TNZ wish thay had a spare platform with hullz the saem az there race bote

 

My understanding iz OR bote 2 haz the daggerbord caess in a diff plaice fore & aft.

 

(Beams attach in diff pozishuns also, so I gess the layup iz diff)

 

Given thay rebilt bote 1 at saem tym az bilding bote 2, not shore thay woud want to

 

Az for yore poynt <<The one thing you wouldnt be able to change during the AC - the hulls>>

 

There iz a rumor that they are grafting new, fuller bowz onto there bote 2 az we speek.

 

I dont no that thay have anything left in the wate budjet, tho . . . myt hav to trim sumthing off elsewheer.

 

IF (big if) troo . . . .

Akordeeng to Dalton in his intervewe, the plan is tu graughed sexions of the recced Aotearoa intu boat 1, if thear is a catastroffic insidint. Tu dais are bujitid for this. Seams this wood be tu tayk accownt of the different foyle and rudder locayshins.

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You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

I agree that the forums are much better this time around. Last time I really do think there were some fully paid by the post Alinghi trolls who's only job was to muddy the waters and make the whole forum so unbearable that we would all go away.

 

This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.

 

I have not been very active or vocal in the Forums this cycle for similar reasons. Too many "paid" TNZ supporters/abusers spewing BS about how "Larry screwed this up" "Coutts is a *%$#@ (insert expletive here)" USA sucks because of this or that etc etc.

 

Congrats to TNZ for or well run, awesome sailed, AC campaign. Looking forward to seeing what the NZL'ders can do to keep it interesting.

 

WL

 

PS- Actually Oracle has been sandbaggin for the last week and now that they have lulled TNZ into a false sense of security are going to take their foot off the brake and blow the competion off the water! :P

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You mean I'm allowed to say that I think it will be all over on Sunday (SF time) without posters bandying words like "hubris", "tosser", and "fuck off noobie" at me?

I mean, and all credit to whoever was/is responsible, this is the first time I have been back here since the last AC and mate, it was brutal back then. Much better now. Anarchy doesn't work, does it.

So I'll chance my arm, raise it to a vertical position, and say "It will all be over on Sunday". Monday for me.

See you in Auckland.

I agree that the forums are much better this time around. Last time I really do think there were some fully paid by the post Alinghi trolls who's only job was to muddy the waters and make the whole forum so unbearable that we would all go away.

 

This time I just hear whingey yanks upset because the Kiwis have stolen their exceptional ism. USA USa not.

 

I have not been very active or vocal in the Forums this cycle for similar reasons. Too many "paid" TNZ supporters/abusers spewing BS about how "Larry screwed this up" "Coutts is a *%$#@ (insert expletive here)" USA sucks because of this or that etc etc.

 

Congrats to TNZ for or well run, awesome sailed, AC campaign. Looking forward to seeing what the NZL'ders can do to keep it interesting.

 

WL

 

PS- Actually Oracle has been sandbaggin for the last week and now that they have lulled TNZ into a false sense of security are going to take their foot off the brake and blow the competion off the water! :P

 

 

Then they have me fooled too! :blink:

 

Maybe they just borrowed a restrictor plate from NASCAR and now they will remove it. Especially since DB & GA have been rubbin' and racin'. (in their own words) They get on the upwind leg and have been rubbin' OR out of the way.

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Agreed, foil changes are far more likely.

 

Some nice-looking stats here at first glance:

 

http://www.cupinfo.com/cupstats/index.php

Not thinking of further improvements to rudder elevators then Stingers?
They sure as hell won't be using the big, slow, over-sized safety-sized ones ;)

 

I doubt that ETNZ is either, which would be the most logical explanation for why they really dragged that issue through the mud for 6+ weeks.

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Agreed, foil changes are far more likely.

 

Some nice-looking stats here at first glance:

 

http://www.cupinfo.com/cupstats/index.php

Not thinking of further improvements to rudder elevators then Stingers?
They sure as hell won't be using the big, slow, over-sized safety-sized ones ;)

 

I doubt that ETNZ is either, which would be the most logical explanation for why they really dragged that issue through the mud for 6+ weeks.

Odd how differently we remember things. I thought you were critical of ETNZ for not agreeing with IM that larger elevators be mandated. Now you don't like them either it seems. As for dragging the issue through the mud, I certainly have recollections of you doing it endlessly and repetitively, I thought ETNZ just said NO and referred IM's attempted mandate to the IJ. Anyway, I am glad that no one's feet got hurt by flying bullets on either team.

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Neither team wanted the damn things. But it was a sensible Safety measure and for that reason I supported it.

 

Unfortunately, most all of the rabid Kiwis here and in NZ media claimed that the issue was symbolic of a lopsided deck, IM was corrupt, blah blah blah blah bah. Ruddergate was Ridiculous, as was fighting it tooth and nail.

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So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;

 

Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ?

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So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;

 

Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ?

 

Correction : Ben won once

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So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;

 

Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ?

Star?

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Justa minor grumble, but what happened to the days when sponsors would not interrupt the play...I mean the race is only ~20min,long and to go to commercial shortly after they round the leeward mark is maddening...yes i know I should be grateful we have the coverage we do...bit still.....run commercials all during the break or something... i dunno........just my .02$

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It'll be on NBCSN, right after Bass Fishing for the US.

 

The American designed Morelli and Melvin boat may very well just have to much of an advantage for Oracle to overcome. After all the talk of foils and waterline, it seems as though rocker will take the cup.

 

I just can't think of a way to get Oracle's bows up without seriously increasing drag, but i also thought Oracle would have had the advantage upwind for months leading up to this. So apparently, suprising to none, there are far smarter folks than I working towards solutions. tick..tock.. tick... tock with these craft it seem even minor adjustments could be enough to invite utter disaster.

 

Well Spithil i believe lost to Sir Ben on a Laser before Big Ben went to the Finn. Maybe the Finn. DB raced them and obviously BA, dunno about Spitthill.

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So whilst we are waiting for racing to begin, a quick Trivia question;

 

Which one Design boat have Dean Barker, Jimmy Spithill, and Ben Ainslie all raced in (helming), but never raced against each other, and also never won in ?

Star?

Sorry no

 

It's bigger than a Star

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I am conserned that, if tomorrow bringz a new set of condishuns the botes hav not lyned up in,

there iz a chants that OR coud be the faster bote. Not big, but not tiny.

 

And any mods thay ar making at this late staidje are (STM) mor lykly to diminish than to increess

any sutsh chants, becoz all the lo hanging froot will alreddy have been well and trolly plundered.

 

 

Becoz peepel lyk LE are notorius for demanding that "Sumthing be dun", thay seem to me lykly to

fall into the trap of generalz alwayz fyting the last battell. Last mode chayndje woz a caess in poynt.

Never send a hair dresser to do your job ;)

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Are we having racing today?

 

I am off to the squadron or maybe I should go back to bed?

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GD figures if OR changes bows they'd have to shave 15-18kg from elsewhere.

 

One way might be to go with the shorter (and presumably lighter) sprit that we saw on one occasion; since it can't fly a Zero they could also remove a winch. If we see that obvious change then it could be the early tipoff.

 

But I'm pretty skeptical they will have done surgery that big in just 36 hours; and skeptical they have other bows even if they wanted to.

maybe they should swap out the b2 bows for the b1 bows. should see a difference there? maybe with the decals? :D

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Well, its on TSN1 in Vancouver as, " Americas Cup World Series" :ph34r:

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Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

 

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

UPDATE: 1150 hours

At his morning briefing, Regatta Director Iain Murray said that both ORACLE TEAM USA and Emirates Team New Zealand had been issued new rating certificates. Although he didn’t elaborate on the extent of the modifications, one is very clear on the defender’s yacht: a new, shorter bowsprit (see picture).

http://www.americascup.com/en/news/3/news/18177/day-5-preview-spithill-eyes-upset

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NBC Sports Network on now, let's see what we get today...............................................

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Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

 

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

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Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

 

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

 

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

 

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

Oh, so Oracle have finally named their boat? :)

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Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

 

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

>

Can anyone see the OR boat yet?

 

Do they have the short sprit configuration?

they moved a couple of deck chairs as well :D

 

Oh, so Oracle have finally named their boat? :)

 

have they got an onboard band?

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Neither team wanted the damn things. But it was a sensible Safety measure and for that reason I supported it.

 

Unfortunately, most all of the rabid Kiwis here and in NZ media claimed that the issue was symbolic of a lopsided deck, IM was corrupt, blah blah blah blah bah. Ruddergate was Ridiculous, as was fighting it tooth and nail.

Hindsight's a bitch. That first attempt to cheat by illegally changing the Class Rules was a harbinger of subsequent proven cheating. Once a cheat....

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So I'm in Boulder Colorado USA ... perhaps you've heard of it ... "biblical" rain ... over 18" in some reports ... flooding ... made BBC world news feed ...

 

I'm lucky no leaks and no flooding on my block ... I have power and internet ... so what does this have to do with Races 3rd and 2nd from last?

 

The local NBC station is broadcasting the BMW Golf chumpionship.

 

Feck ... I get to watch the video with the AC app on my tablet and the virtual eye thing on my phone ... How the hell are we supposed to drum up interest for a Buffalo sailing team at CU if the local NBC station won't even broadcast the damn race ... its killing sailing in the US ... just killing it ...

 

:-)

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