Barnyb

Team UK

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Banter...

 

“There’s a lot of dock talk, a lot of misinformation flying around,” said Ainslie. “You can go and do a day’s sailing and get five different versions of what actually happened.

“You have to take it all with a pinch of salt and get on with it. There’s quite a bit of banter, jostling. We try to be as understated as we can. We’ve got a really good squad, with some young guys coming through and some older heads who know not to say too much.”

Ainslie has almost tripped himself up once or twice. He and his wife Georgie and their six-month-old daughter Bellatrix have taken a house on the island with a rather familiar neighbour.

“We’re living next door to Grant Simmer, the general manager at Oracle,” said Ainslie. “He and his wife Alex are very good friends of mine. I just have to be careful when I’m catching up not to say too much.
“It’s nice with all the other families here, it’s becoming quite a tight-knit community, and Georgie and Bellatrix are spending some time with them and building some relationships. It’s mostly within our team but it is a small world, and we’ve all sailed with different people on different campaigns and got to know other families.

There are some long-standing friendships too.

“But as you get closer to competition it can get a bit awkward not talking about the sailing and performance so it’s easier to stick with your own crowd as much as you can.”

 

https://sailracingmagazine.com/home/2016/12/23/how-banter-became-the-latest-weapon-in-americas-cup-espionage

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Around 25th Nov (^) they announced it would be going out to Bda 'in a couple of weeks' - so clearly a delay.....looks like they are having trouble with the sprit :DC0YbR4nXgAAK8FJ.jpg

 

 

clik

15591400_1119314854853849_12989908619893

Whoah..

That looks incredible.

A winner. When it looks fast it must be fast.

 

Thanks Nav.

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It's clearly a composite of several shots (maybe one of the Ts?) with the sprit 'deleted' for whatever reasons - take it with a grain of salt

 

Colour - Yikes! Rule Britannia All Blacks....

 

15591400_1119314854853849_12989908619893

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And the Christmas test question for Nav is: what colour is carbon fibre?

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Of course it's a mock up

 

The building that it's shot in is the Portsmouth base, I doubt it has been that empty since the building was first completed

 

It's for arty illustration only,

 

Chances are the Bermuda base doesn't look quite so clean and clinical with all the stuff that's going on there and maybe they thought it woukd be appreciated by us window lickers, hell we could even draw yellow lines on it ;-)

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And the Christmas test question for Nav is: what colour is carbon fibre?

Every lick of paint is extra weight.

Only sponsors like Landrover are allowed to add something.

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Every lick of paint is extra weight.

Only sponsors like Landrover are allowed to add something.

 

 

That's expensive then - when measured in psi.... ;)

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Your basic tension-building PR piece then.

 

AFAIK we don't know precisely when anyone else is splashing.

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They may have lost the Cup already. It's definitly too late.

 

Following your line of panicking, one wonders why ETNZ are even bothering to show up :D

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BA confirmed in his Blog over at the "Daily Telegraph" that LRBAR's 1st Sail of their Race Boat will be February 6th. That's less than 120 Days away from their 1st Race against Artemis in the ACQ.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2016/12/22/year-remember-focus-now-switches-next-years-americas-cup/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_tw

 

They may have lost the Cup already. It's definitly too late. They may have about 100 Days to catch up to OTUSA, SBTJ and Artemis. Not enough time in these type of Boats IMO. BA reaffirms that he thinks his Team is the "Underdog" compared to the other 3 I mentioned.

 

Maybe there are reasons that you don't know about that mean that they couldn't do any sailing even if they launched before then.

And maybe there are reasons that mean the others won't be doing much race boat sailing before then either.

Who knows?

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Maybe there are reasons that you don't know about that mean that they couldn't do any sailing even if they launched before then.

And maybe there are reasons that mean the others won't be doing much race boat sailing before then either.

Who knows?

I think you know what I know.....

I bet no others sail their race boats before ETNZ are in the water.

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^ Either way it's a big deal.

 

Secret tribunals - way to go! :(

 

 

 

just get ready for the future revisionism along the lines of... "We heard no complaints or protests, so clearly Team XXXX had no issues with this change to the rules"

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Thats a computer rendered image......

Look at the reflections on the floor - good but not right.....

exactly matching dirt and grunge on vertical beams across the centre axis.

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Thats a computer rendered image......

Look at the reflections on the floor - good but not right.....

exactly matching dirt and grunge on vertical beams across the centre axis.

 

 

Ainslie should come clean and confirm whether the boat pictured is a hoax or not. There are already enough disinformation circulated around, maybe the Russians could undertake some hacking to help us.

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America's Cup? Hoax and disinformation? Surely not. Someone call the cops.

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America's Cup? Hoax and disinformation? Surely not. Someone call the cops.

 

Shame really that OTUSA have managed such a complete shutdown. I guess teams are scared of the sanctions that could be applied (from the Protocol that somehow the majority agreed to).

 

Nothing about the arguments about the late change to the number of eligible foils.

Nothing about the TNZ settlement.(can we really belive that none of the teams can sail their new boats until TNZ are on the water?)

Nothing about the changes in wind strengths

 

There seems virtually no informed commentary.. Some vague discussions here on the AC forum. Only Gladwell seems to be able to hint at the stories.

 

There is something called Cup Experience that has sold out to OTUSA and can offer nothing of interest.

 

Mr Clean sometimes seems like he might want to get into something interesting, but I guess the Comanche stories have made him a bit wary.

 

Even GD is saying nothing, though I bet he is fuming like a volcano inside.

 

Maybe one day some of the stories might be told.

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Gladwell's "hints" are just part of a partisan interchange and tell us nothing. I agree there is a complete lack of informed or even interesting commentary. It's a bizarre situation when the AC is being sold as an entertainment yet all interest has been squeezed out of it.

 

 

 

can we really belive that none of the teams can sail their new boats until TNZ are on the water?

 

It does not pass the bullshit test to me. I don't believe all teams would be penalised for an act of ACEA. Maybe I am mistaken, time will tell.

 

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Gladwell's "hints" are just part of a partisan interchange and tell us nothing. I agree there is a complete lack of informed or even interesting commentary. It's a bizarre situation when the AC is being sold as an entertainment yet all interest has been squeezed out of it.

 

can we really belive that none of the teams can sail their new boats until TNZ are on the water?

It does not pass the bullshit test to me. I don't believe all teams would be penalised for an act of ACEA. Maybe I am mistaken, time will tell.

 

Agree on the partisan nature of Gladwell reveals. But at least he is trying to inform/comment.

 

There is not another journalist out there capable or willing to do the homework. Just spoonfed PR syndicate and ACEA pap.

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^ Ha ha, you ain't seen nothing yet - tickets are on sale, big push when it gets warm again. Oldest, fastest, bestest, blah blah....

 

Keep up the good work Richard

 

Time will tell about launching dictates....one thing is for sure though - no one launched in the first 4 days of the window!

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There is something called Cup Experience that has sold out to OTUSA and can offer nothing of interest.

 

Gratuitous comment, definitely

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Gladwell's "hints" are just part of a partisan interchange and tell us nothing. I agree there is a complete lack of informed or even interesting commentary. It's a bizarre situation when the AC is being sold as an entertainment yet all interest has been squeezed out of it.

 

can we really belive that none of the teams can sail their new boats until TNZ are on the water?

It does not pass the bullshit test to me. I don't believe all teams would be penalised for an act of ACEA. Maybe I am mistaken, time will tell.

I find it hard to believe that teams could be penalise for ACEA bullshit. But... stranger things have probably happened, not that we'd be allowed to know... 8)

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There is something called Cup Experience that has sold out to OTUSA and can offer nothing of interest.

 

Gratuitous comment, definitely
I have read nothing on Cup Experience in the current Cup cycle that is any more than the pap put out by the PR machines. No comment or discussion on any of the important issues. No questioning of the establishment line.

 

Sad to say as I felt that the editor started out wanting to offer a unique Cup Experience, but nothing is unique in the current Newsletter output. He needs to gain some distance from ACEA and OTUSA if he wants to be taken seriously as an AC commentator.

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There is something called Cup Experience that has sold out to OTUSA and can offer nothing of interest.

Gratuitous comment, definitely
I have read nothing on Cup Experience in the current Cup cycle that is any more than the pap put out by the PR machines. No comment or discussion on any of the important issues. No questioning of the establishment line.

 

Sad to say as I felt that the editor started out wanting to offer a unique Cup Experience, but nothing is unique in the current Newsletter output. He needs to gain some distance from ACEA and OTUSA if he wants to be taken seriously as an AC commentator.

 

 

 

Spare a thought for Jack Griffin. He set out to inform and enlighten on AC developments, especially tech developments, but Bermuda's geographic isolation plus the draconian dampeners placed on anyone in the Cup game means that he's sucking hind tit.

My go-to for Cup insights is Gladwell who does a pretty damn good job of reading the tealeaves, albeit with a New Zealand flavour. If anyone can offer me e better source of news and commentary from anywhere in the world, I'd love to hear it.

The blame for this squalid state of affairs falls squarely on Coutts and Ellison for their paranoid approach to the 35th defence. There are admirable aspects to the upcoming competition but the brutal gag on meaningful information, undertaken with the pussyfoot acquiescence of the Northern Hemisphere contenders, is a bloody travesty.

The situation should improve as the new boats start sailing and especially as competition gets underway and newshound and commentators begin basing and reporting from Bermuda. Until then, tough shit!

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Gladwell's "hints" are just part of a partisan interchange and tell us nothing. I agree there is a complete lack of informed or even interesting commentary. It's a bizarre situation when the AC is being sold as an entertainment yet all interest has been squeezed out of it.

 

 

 

 

Maybe you should become a bit more familiar with Articles 11.13 and 63.1 and the penalty provisions of 11.1(e & f) to understand why the teams will say nothing and Dalton especially. And if you don't think that ACEA can claw back damages this is covered by Article 6.5(f) after a simple majority vote, followed by the process outlined in the remainder of Article 6.5.

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There is something called Cup Experience that has sold out to OTUSA and can offer nothing of interest.

Gratuitous comment, definitely
I have read nothing on Cup Experience in the current Cup cycle that is any more than the pap put out by the PR machines. No comment or discussion on any of the important issues. No questioning of the establishment line.

 

Sad to say as I felt that the editor started out wanting to offer a unique Cup Experience, but nothing is unique in the current Newsletter output. He needs to gain some distance from ACEA and OTUSA if he wants to be taken seriously as an AC commentator.

 

 

 

Spare a thought for Jack Griffin. He set out to inform and enlighten on AC developments, especially tech developments, but Bermuda's geographic isolation plus the draconian dampeners placed on anyone in the Cup game means that he's sucking hind tit.

My go-to for Cup insights is Gladwell who does a pretty damn good job of reading the tealeaves, albeit with a New Zealand flavour. If anyone can offer me e better source of news and commentary from anywhere in the world, I'd love to hear it.

The blame for this squalid state of affairs falls squarely on Coutts and Ellison for their paranoid approach to the 35th defence. There are admirable aspects to the upcoming competition but the brutal gag on meaningful information, undertaken with the pussyfoot acquiescence of the Northern Hemisphere contenders, is a bloody travesty.

The situation should improve as the new boats start sailing and especially as competition gets underway and newshound and commentators begin basing and reporting from Bermuda. Until then, tough shit!

 

 

Not going to get my hopes up. I can't see prospect of any independent journos staying in Bermuda for the duration, and even if they did the team gagging orders will mean that little will leak out.

 

What we need is an anarchist who is a local with their ear to the ground and their eyes on the water. One lives in hope otherwise it will just be a "awesome, wowee, fastest boats, fastest sailors " show for corporate freeloaders with no knowledge or real interest in the AC.

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Gladwell's "hints" are just part of a partisan interchange and tell us nothing. I agree there is a complete lack of informed or even interesting commentary. It's a bizarre situation when the AC is being sold as an entertainment yet all interest has been squeezed out of it.

 

 

 

 

Maybe you should become a bit more familiar with Articles 11.13 and 63.1 and the penalty provisions of 11.1(e & f) to understand why the teams will say nothing and Dalton especially. And if you don't think that ACEA can claw back damages this is covered by Article 6.5(f) after a simple majority vote, followed by the process outlined in the remainder of Article 6.5.

 

 

 

Thanks, however grandma already knows how to suck eggs.

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No race to watch on Tv, no info to get from teams, and we are a big group of 5 posters here, quite a lot for a one billion show.

Yes. But thunk of all the sailors and their families living it up in Bermuda for the next six months. Coutts has created a great circus for the boys. They should love him dearly

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No race to watch on Tv, no info to get from teams, and we are a big group of 5 posters here, quite a lot for a one billion show.

Yes. But thunk of all the sailors and their families living it up in Bermuda for the next six months. Coutts has created a great circus for the boys. They should love him dearly

 

Its an AC for professionnal sailors,..only.

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BA confirmed in his Blog over at the "Daily Telegraph" that LRBAR's 1st Sail of their Race Boat will be February 6th.

 

Which is precisely 28 days after January 9th.

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Gladwell's "hints" are just part of a partisan interchange and tell us nothing. I agree there is a complete lack of informed or even interesting commentary. It's a bizarre situation when the AC is being sold as an entertainment yet all interest has been squeezed out of it.

 

 

 

can we really belive that none of the teams can sail their new boats until TNZ are on the water?

 

It does not pass the bullshit test to me. I don't believe all teams would be penalised for an act of ACEA. Maybe I am mistaken, time will tell.

 

I trend to agree with you. Why would the other Teams have to pay for the shenanigans the ACEA/Coutts did with ETNZ?

 

A lot of Posters here on the Thread gave big misinformation about LRBAR's Timetable regarding the launch of their ACC-50 Race Boat. That the Platform was already in Bermuda was plain and simple badly wrong.

 

I think LARBAR finished it just before Christmas. Now the Boat is shipped to Bermuda and will presumably arrive next week or the week after that. Then the LRBAR Shore Team will have 3+ weeks to assemble the Boat, doing structural Tests getting it ready for Feb 6th.

 

 

well I assume you mean me?

 

so my info came from Andy Claughton at a British Marine south open event hosted at the LABAR centre in late summer indicating their sailing plans for the race boat, the then current state of progress on the race boat was confirmed by a friend of mine from the sailing team.

 

there is nothing that has been shown or released that indicates they are off track through any fault or problem of their own making.

 

the Feb 6th launch date that coincides with the 28 day race boat ban is out of their control and looking at the logistics of getting the boat there and built would require a ridiculous level of good fortune to fit with your alleged LABAR falling behind schedule.

 

its there, its in the shed and they are on track.

 

ironically more on track than your beloved Alinghi....

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so it only takes a week to wrap, load, ship and unpack a race boat from Portsmouth to Bermuda....nice time line Alinghi4ever...

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Really...so you recon they post in real time do you?

 

Like when they let you know that T3 And T4 were sailing together when T4 was sailing alternately with T3 for months prior

 

 

You also fail to acknowledge that the pic they posted was a computer generated image not the actual boat so by using the 23rd as proof of first existence let alone departure is stupid

 

Face it that boat was packed up long ago,

 

The fastest shipping via sea that we do here is a 8 day sailing from west coast USA to Southampton UK

 

Bermuda is further, and not on the same level of regular service from USA/U.K.

 

Do you still think they packed up a never built boat shipped it and got it there in 11 days?

 

And then thought they would stand about and get pics as it was unloaded and post them live so as to fit your rapidly shifting time scale while also fitting in convieniently with the 28 day black out period

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Time zone fuck face...

 

So you have slipped from omg they are arriving soooo late to they are on schedule with MW and what he said about boats shipping but you still don't have dates.

 

Cool you FB friend saw them unpacking the other day, fair enough I was a week out with what I was told, well done to you.

 

So please go again with why they are so far behind the others as you are saying in other topics?

 

How would shipping two boats out have been better for them? Then then would have nothing to sail in Portsmouth while T3 and the base were shipping out? They only have two full race crews so why bother shipping three boats to Bermuda?

 

This way they can sail T3 while R1 is readied while testing R1 components on T3 during the 28day black out as mandated in the "rules"

Where your team by the way?

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Time zone fuck face...

 

So you have slipped from omg they are arriving soooo late to they are on schedule with MW and what he said about boats shipping but you still don't have dates.

 

Cool you FB friend saw them unpacking the other day, fair enough I was a week out with what I was told, well done to you.

 

So please go again with why they are so far behind the others as you are saying in other topics?

 

How would shipping two boats out have been better for them? Then then would have nothing to sail in Portsmouth while T3 and the base were shipping out? They only have two full race crews so why bother shipping three boats to Bermuda?

 

This way they can sail T3 while R1 is readied while testing R1 components on T3 during the 28day black out as mandated in the "rules"

Where your team by the way?

You claimed that their R1 had arrived 2 weeks ago and you are totally wrong on this.

 

It arrived January 3rd just like CEO Whitmarsh said. One Shipment in November (which included T3) and one in December (which included R1)

 

 

Come on kids please .

 

Who really gives a fuck when the parts show up ?

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http://nzh.tw/11778479

 

"Another America's Cup grudge match

 

The Louis Vuitton America's Cup playoffs (or what we previously knew as the Louis Vuitton challenger finals) will be a bitter grudge match between Team New Zealand and Team Japan (which is pretty much the 2013 Team NZ).

 

Ben Ainslie's British syndicate has been talked up as favourites to take on defenders Oracle Team USA for the Auld Mug following his win in the America's Cup World Series.

 

But the America's Cup proper is as much a design contest as a sailing one and the talk around the dock is the British boat hasn't looked as sharp in testing.

 

Having been handed the blueprint to Oracle's test boat, the Japanese syndicate, led by former Team NZ skipper Dean Barker, had a handy starting point and will be extremely dangerous. Team NZ were late out of the starting blocks but have made up strong ground with their testing programme and will be a threat."

 

 

Has anyone else heard suggestion that the LRBAR boat is a bit slow? Or is this just Dana pulling shit out of her arse?

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"

But the America's Cup proper is as much a design contest as a sailing one and the talk around the dock is the British boat hasn't looked as sharp in testing.

 

Having been handed the blueprint to Oracle's test boat, the Japanese syndicate, led by former Team NZ skipper Dean Barker, had a handy starting point and will be extremely dangerous. Team NZ were late out of the starting blocks but have made up strong ground with their testing programme and will be a threat."

 

 

Has anyone else heard suggestion that the LRBAR boat is a bit slow? Or is this just Dana pulling shit out of her arse?

 

Chris Draper no slouch either.

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Has anyone else heard suggestion that the LRBAR boat is a bit slow? Or is this just Dana pulling shit out of her arse?

 

Didn't Ken Read make a similar comment?

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Has anyone else heard suggestion that the LRBAR boat is a bit slow? Or is this just Dana pulling shit out of her arse?

 

Didn't Ken Read make a similar comment?

 

During Fukuoka, Ken said that the BAR Test boat still looked "Jittery" on the foils and that the Team New Zealand design program looked very impressive.

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The difference between winners and losers in this whole thing will be down to not-yet-seen foils and control systems. And teamwork.

 

I don't know that there's enough information anywhere to pick the winners and losers just yet.

 

Of course, we all have our biases...

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Team Japan will not be in the Challenger Finals. Any Person who says that in any Article shouldn't be taken seriously.

There is only one team (GTF) that is unlikely to make it out of the Qualifiers. I do not think you can discount the remaining teams as any of the four could reach the Challenger Finals.

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http://nzh.tw/11778479

 

"Another America's Cup grudge match

 

The Louis Vuitton America's Cup playoffs (or what we previously knew as the Louis Vuitton challenger finals) will be a bitter grudge match between Team New Zealand and Team Japan (which is pretty much the 2013 Team NZ).

 

Ben Ainslie's British syndicate has been talked up as favourites to take on defenders Oracle Team USA for the Auld Mug following his win in the America's Cup World Series.

 

But the America's Cup proper is as much a design contest as a sailing one and the talk around the dock is the British boat hasn't looked as sharp in testing.

 

Having been handed the blueprint to Oracle's test boat, the Japanese syndicate, led by former Team NZ skipper Dean Barker, had a handy starting point and will be extremely dangerous. Team NZ were late out of the starting blocks but have made up strong ground with their testing programme and will be a threat."

 

 

Has anyone else heard suggestion that the LRBAR boat is a bit slow? Or is this just Dana pulling shit out of her arse?

 

 

Hey, mate! This is the distillation of Dana's "worldly knowledge."

 

Others here have discounted the chances of Dean the defecting Kiwi.

 

As for BAR, it is the best funded, best researched, best nationally-supported challenger by far, managed and steered by an athlete in his prime with a depth of experience that includes four Olympic Gold Medals and crewing about an America's Cup winner plus prior time in other Cup teams.

 

I say fear Ben Ainslie's boys.

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Yes, on the surface they should be a concern to the other teams. Unless they've committed to some facet of design that's just not going to perform as expected...

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Yes, on the surface they (LRBAR) should be a concern to the other teams. Unless they've committed to some facet of design that's just not going to perform as expected...

Sure. But you could say exactly the same about any of the teams.

 

As for what Ken Read has opined about either LRBAR or ETNZ, how the hell would he know? Just someone paid to fill 4 hours with talk.

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Yes, could be said for any of the teams.

 

Rumours and innuendo are all we've got to go with really. Take those, add your particular bias and postulate away...

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As for BAR, it is the best funded, best researched, best nationally-supported challenger by far, managed and steered by an athlete in his prime with a depth of experience that includes four Olympic Gold Medals and crewing about an America's Cup winner plus prior time in other Cup teams.

 

I say fear Ben Ainslie's boys.

 

 

You got that right, but "Fear for BA's boys", maybe...

 

Given the confusing, ever changing, 'unique to AC' rules', (that make all of these long term racing sailors athletes effectively 'beginners' again), the paid commentators clearly don't understand them, I sometimes have my doubts about the umpires and even the teams are still sending in requests for clarification after 2 years of using them - what are the chances of Jimmy 'accidentally' taking someone (biggest perceived threat) out - or even a real accidental 'boat destroying crash' at some point in the proceedings?

 

Pretty high IMO sadly - and that will make all the relative performance arguments moot...

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The Problem for people writing or judging LRBAR is this: A lot of things the British tried haven't been tried before or are completely new. No Team in my recent memory has tapped so extensivly into the Formula One World. BA & MW have recruited a lot of Designers who have had Major Success winning F1 Championships. No one knows if this can be replicated into the AC Sailing World.

 

 

 

I think it's actually a pretty smart move considering the shit F1 designers are doing these days... besides I see many similarities between F1 and the current AC cats. Modern F1 cars are almost all about making downforce - the opposite of lift (make a wing, put it upside down=downforce). This is measured in the tonnes, whereas the weight of the cars is measured in kilos. Pretty much the same thing here with foils. The loads are through the roof while the actual weight is titchy. Also, if you know how to make proper downforce, you basically know how to make lift... That's just one of the similarities I see.

Besides, I can't see any harm in having world class designers from the motorsport industry.

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Has anyone else heard suggestion that the LRBAR boat is a bit slow? Or is this just Dana pulling shit out of her arse?

 

True - they've has their ass handed to them every time they've lined up.

Probably more to do with wing trims and other systems than foils bu better to find out now than later, unless it's already too late for what they've put in place to be able to change.

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This is where I beleive ETNZ is making a huge mistake. BAR has the resources and time to get to a competitive stance (unless they are completely wrong) where ETNZ will not.

It is one thing to test by your lonesome with data that says "WOW, we sure are fast" and find out you are a few seconds slower in every maneuver and a 1/10 knot slower across the range. These small deficits turn into huge losses in big foiling cat races. Only time will tell, but decisions made now are not easily corrected if wrong.

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If teams cannot race their ACCs against each other, they'll be reliant on 'spys' to get data on other teams' performance right?

 

Do you really need the whole team there for that?

 

Now if you still had a surrogate that hadn't been cannibalised for parts and could line up for practice races whenever you wanted - then it would help to have a training mate handy for sure.

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The Great Sound is small enough that you don't have to have formal sessions to "line up" with the competition and see who has what. No sailor worth his salt likes to get beat in any boat.

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You said

 

It is one thing to test by your lonesome with data that says "WOW, we sure are fast" and find out you are a few seconds slower in every maneuver and a 1/10 knot slower across the range. These small deficits turn into huge losses in big foiling cat races.

 

Are you saying you can assess this by casual observation? If so, one person there from ETNZ will suffice then right?

 

If you cannot assess it by casual observation and you cannot race side by side* - where does that leave everybody and how is etnz worse off iyo?

 

* or are you stating that the rule against training together in ACC boats can be effectively circumvented ('testing together' rather than testing on your lonesome?!) and that no one will care or protest those doing it?

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This is where I beleive ETNZ is making a huge mistake. BAR has the resources and time to get to a competitive stance (unless they are completely wrong) where ETNZ will not.

It is one thing to test by your lonesome with data that says "WOW, we sure are fast" and find out you are a few seconds slower in every maneuver and a 1/10 knot slower across the range. These small deficits turn into huge losses in big foiling cat races. Only time will tell, but decisions made now are not easily corrected if wrong.

Do you really think the data being collected, and information being gathered by ETNZ is so unreliable that they're going to end up being "a few seconds slower in every maneuver and 1/10 knot slower across the range"?

The only mistake would be to count ETNZ out as a serious contender just because they've chosen to train away from Bermuda. It may very well prove to be the right decision.

You're right about 2 things though. Time will tell, and decisions made now are not easily corrected if wrong.

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If LRBAR can be off pace by developing in Portsmouth, ETNZ can be in the same closet.

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To me the main advantage of being in Bermuda is getting familiar with the local conditions. From a testing perspective, I fall on the side of thinking ETNZ is probably going down the right path given where they are in their campaign - long testing runs without interruption or distraction is IMHO preferable for optimizing a freshly launched boat. ETNZ's biggest weakest is likely to be the lack of boat-to-boat combat that the other teams will be able to simulate either inhouse or via "accidental" encounters on the Great Sound.

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If LRBAR can be off pace by developing in Portsmouth, ETNZ can be in the same closet.

No one who knows anything thinks LRBAR is "off pace".

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Has anyone tested the salinity of the water in Bermuda compared to their "home" waters??

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@Chainlocker,

Why are these Writers saying the LRBAR Boat is slow when they haven't seen it? If my memory is correct LRBAR's T3 was launched in March 2016. A lot has happened since then. You'd imagine that they got faster since then.

They have seen T3 which is a good indicator of what LRBAR has developed at this point when compared to what AR, OR and SBTJ have also come up with.

The systems in these boats at this late date are a good reflection of what is going in their ACC boats. The reports that LBAR is slower than the others in BDA could be trim and simple setup factors, but something I do not think they expected.

If a highly funded team like LRBAR with as many test platforms (the last two identical so they can make changes and get real performance indicators with one in the shed and one on the water) can be off pace, ETNZ could very easily be in the same situation.

T3 is not anywhere near the same boat it was in March, having many systems upgrades as they developed towards the final design. Just like OR3, AR2 and SBTJ1 have had many changes (and SBTJ's ACC is their design, not OR's. It cannot be compared to the LR/ETNZ purchase from AC34)

LRBAR has been training and developing on the Solient for quite a while and come to Bermuda to reportedly get their butts handed to them.

Why should this technique with so much less to work with be a winner for ETNZ?

These boats are different enough that old school developing and training off site without a multi-boat program (on the water together) just may not be the answer.

LRBAR only had a few weeks of 2 boat trials before packing up for Bermuda.

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You said

 

It is one thing to test by your lonesome with data that says "WOW, we sure are fast" and find out you are a few seconds slower in every maneuver and a 1/10 knot slower across the range. These small deficits turn into huge losses in big foiling cat races.

 

Are you saying you can assess this by casual observation? If so, one person there from ETNZ will suffice then right?

 

If you cannot assess it by casual observation and you cannot race side by side* - where does that leave everybody and how is etnz worse off iyo?

 

* or are you stating that the rule against training together in ACC boats can be effectively circumvented ('testing together' rather than testing on your lonesome?!) and that no one will care or protest those doing it?

I am saying that the area of the Great Sound is small enough that you can't help but sail "side by side" for short distances and frequently. The boats in Bermuda won't be able to line up and practice starts as they have before, but the teams are training in a fish bowl, they will be able to check-off one another.

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LRBAR has been training and developing on the Solient for quite a while and come to Bermuda to reportedly get their butts handed to them.

So said someone on a forum, based on what? We are in the post-fact world here.

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If LRBAR can be off pace by developing in Portsmouth, ETNZ can be in the same closet.

No one who knows anything thinks LRBAR is "off pace".

 

 

wrong I'm afraid - info direct from Bermuda and an involved party. But early days and as ever having an in-house tuning boat is one thing, outside oppo is always another and needed to raise your game.

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If LRBAR can be off pace by developing in Portsmouth, ETNZ can be in the same closet.

OR they might both be remote enough to be effectively obfuscating their actual performance? Or not of course.

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You said

 

It is one thing to test by your lonesome with data that says "WOW, we sure are fast" and find out you are a few seconds slower in every maneuver and a 1/10 knot slower across the range. These small deficits turn into huge losses in big foiling cat races.

 

Are you saying you can assess this by casual observation? If so, one person there from ETNZ will suffice then right?

 

If you cannot assess it by casual observation and you cannot race side by side* - where does that leave everybody and how is etnz worse off iyo?

 

* or are you stating that the rule against training together in ACC boats can be effectively circumvented ('testing together' rather than testing on your lonesome?!) and that no one will care or protest those doing it?

I am saying that the area of the Great Sound is small enough that you can't help but sail "side by side" for short distances and frequently. The boats in Bermuda won't be able to line up and practice starts as they have before, but the teams are training in a fish bowl, they will be able to check-off one another.
Plenty of opportunities to spy on the Sound. OR for instance have already been caught cheating once and the stakes are even higher this time around if the pundits on this forum are to be believed that LE will pull the plug on the gravytrain if he does not win.

 

No need for navy seal divers underwater like Newport 1983. Or radar guns. Just place a very small GPS transponder on a rival boat and track every move.

 

As for cheating by teams accidentally lining up in such a small area in the Sound with five teams speeding around before the Challenger series I cannot see how it will be policed.

 

Certainly not fair to expect GD and TNZ to be the only team keeping it clean and calling it out and then seen as some sort of bad sport and creating even more bad air between the teams.

 

Iain Murray and ACEA will have to take an active and firm initiative right from the start. And that means having umpires on the water right from the start all the time that any boats are out sailing and not just issuing Notices.

 

I guess IM could even have access to data from transponders on all the boats, the same ones as used with livewire I guess.

 

Then it would not be difficult to get Oracle software engineers to write a program that could automatically identify any suspicious inter boat activity.

 

As for the current protocol I do hope surely that it allows challengers to cooperate once a challenger has won the LV Cup in an effort to beat the Defender.

 

The essence of the AC has already been compromised enough with the Defender racing with the Challengers before the Match.

 

And of course expect any of the eliminated challengers to agree not to help the incumbent as has happened at least once in the past. A difficult one as clearly Softbank and Team France would appear to be more indebted to OR than the other teams. No doubt complicated be the secret hip pocket challenge that both of the finalists will have ready for the last race.

 

AC! Don't you love it!

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The Problem for people writing or judging LRBAR is this: A lot of things the British tried haven't been tried before or are completely new. No Team in my recent memory has tapped so extensivly into the Formula One World. BA & MW have recruited a lot of Designers who have had Major Success winning F1 Championships. No one knows if this can be replicated into the AC Sailing World.

 

 

 

I think it's actually a pretty smart move considering the shit F1 designers are doing these days... besides I see many similarities between F1 and the current AC cats. Modern F1 cars are almost all about making downforce - the opposite of lift (make a wing, put it upside down=downforce). This is measured in the tonnes, whereas the weight of the cars is measured in kilos. Pretty much the same thing here with foils. The loads are through the roof while the actual weight is titchy. Also, if you know how to make proper downforce, you basically know how to make lift... That's just one of the similarities I see.

Besides, I can't see any harm in having world class designers from the motorsport industry.

 

 

wonder if we'll be seeing tower wings on the pods to create lift to help keep the pods out of the water with all those F1 designers

 

35b9e4dae29ab7d35e02641f016c2cd30d8906c6

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@Chainlocker,

Why are these Writers saying the LRBAR Boat is slow when they haven't seen it? If my memory is correct LRBAR's T3 was launched in March 2016. A lot has happened since then. You'd imagine that they got faster since then.

They have seen T3 which is a good indicator of what LRBAR has developed at this point when compared to what AR, OR and SBTJ have also come up with.

The systems in these boats at this late date are a good reflection of what is going in their ACC boats. The reports that LBAR is slower than the others in BDA could be trim and simple setup factors, but something I do not think they expected.

If a highly funded team like LRBAR with as many test platforms (the last two identical so they can make changes and get real performance indicators with one in the shed and one on the water) can be off pace, ETNZ could very easily be in the same situation.

T3 is not anywhere near the same boat it was in March, having many systems upgrades as they developed towards the final design. Just like OR3, AR2 and SBTJ1 have had many changes (and SBTJ's ACC is their design, not OR's. It cannot be compared to the LR/ETNZ purchase from AC34)

LRBAR has been training and developing on the Solient for quite a while and come to Bermuda to reportedly get their butts handed to them.

Why should this technique with so much less to work with be a winner for ETNZ?

These boats are different enough that old school developing and training off site without a multi-boat program (on the water together) just may not be the answer.

LRBAR only had a few weeks of 2 boat trials before packing up for Bermuda.

 

A great example of the old saying...don't believe everything you hear. No one seriously believes, that come Cup time, LRBAR are going to be "off pace" and are going to "get their butts handed to them" its all smoke and mirrors.

Who knows, training off site, in your own space, without the added pressure of other boats and teams encroaching on your space may just be the answer. Id imagine its certainly a lot easier to focus on each objective as it comes, when you're not having to unnecessarily dodge other competitors.

The days are long in New Zealand in the summertime, its often daylight around 5am, and doesn't get dark till around 9pm most days. Thats a lot of good focused sailing time to be had. And the conditions near perfect most days.

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@Chainlocker,

Why are these Writers saying the LRBAR Boat is slow when they haven't seen it? If my memory is correct LRBAR's T3 was launched in March 2016. A lot has happened since then. You'd imagine that they got faster since then.

They have seen T3 which is a good indicator of what LRBAR has developed at this point when compared to what AR, OR and SBTJ have also come up with.

The systems in these boats at this late date are a good reflection of what is going in their ACC boats. The reports that LBAR is slower than the others in BDA could be trim and simple setup factors, but something I do not think they expected.

If a highly funded team like LRBAR with as many test platforms (the last two identical so they can make changes and get real performance indicators with one in the shed and one on the water) can be off pace, ETNZ could very easily be in the same situation.

T3 is not anywhere near the same boat it was in March, having many systems upgrades as they developed towards the final design. Just like OR3, AR2 and SBTJ1 have had many changes (and SBTJ's ACC is their design, not OR's. It cannot be compared to the LR/ETNZ purchase from AC34)

LRBAR has been training and developing on the Solient for quite a while and come to Bermuda to reportedly get their butts handed to them.

Why should this technique with so much less to work with be a winner for ETNZ?

These boats are different enough that old school developing and training off site without a multi-boat program (on the water together) just may not be the answer.

LRBAR only had a few weeks of 2 boat trials before packing up for Bermuda.

 

You are making me nervous big time.

 

LRBAR should have the time and resources plus 2 points to overcome this. With only weeks before real racing starts when ETNZ finally arrive in Bermuda, do they?

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^ If they need a two point start - not to come last, they are in the wrong game.

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^

You think ? FFS, what's the added value of your post?

 

[there goes my New Year's resolution]

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its more that you didnt say that the hulls were built at Green Marine,

 

you just said you think they were built in the UK

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Yup. Earlier in this thread:

 

 

Will sail one of the new T's. Probably T2 after T3 is launched in early 2016 for 2 boat training. He says he will push BA to the limit and he probably will.

Can't find anywhere the indication of where these have/are going to be built. In the U.K. or NZ (@ Core?). Ditto for the AR boats, while we are at it

Green Marine (BAR)

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That was already known in 2015, so I have no value added in my post :)

 

7 OCTOBER 2015- LANDROVER BAR ANNOUNCE T2

British America's Cup Team Landrover Ben Ainslie Racing has unveiled the latest test boat for their cup challenge.

The aptly named T2, uses the latest technology from the aerospace and automotive industries to create the marine equivalent of a fighter jet.

All at Green Marine are very proud of the work involved to support this amazing British team - best of luck for upcoming Bermuda challenge Landrover BAR!

Please visit land-rover-bar.americascup.com for more information.

http://www.greenmarine.co.uk/news/7-october-2015-landrover-bar-announce-t2/

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How light?

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Everyone is out today!

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Combining data...

 

There is no racing like the @americascup! Check out @dcarrsailing’s heart rate during a 30 minute session on the water last week, averaging 89% heart rate at 164bpm and reaching a 95% peak of 175bpm!

 

16229173_1865604220343168_65586935767362

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He is suggesting you might indulge in over enthusiastic touching of your Swiss balls at the very sight of Sir Ben

Hey, I'm still supporting Team Alinghi if they ever come back. Tbh, I'm already in the 7th Heaven and over the moon after Roger Federer won his 18th Major in Oz on Sunday. He faced pretty looooong odds to put it mildly.

 

Team UK/LRBAR will most likely have better odds to win the AC than he had to win in Oz :D:)

 

It was the best tennis match I ever saw..

And I agree that the odds for Bar are advantageous.

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