Barnyb

Team UK

Recommended Posts

 

Even Land Rover are probably putting up not that much more than the British taxpayers

How do you know that?
I dought that. I mean come on, they're the title sponsor ffs. The team openly claim having spent 100 million £. As title sponsor I'm pretty sure Land Rover have given more than 20 million £.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

What's with the lack of video of the AC50 sailing?

No sailing = No video

 

They wont be sailing for awhile yet.

BAR is in the water. I thought I had heard they were to be sailing the day after the launch. Maybe I did not hear that right.

Their 28-Day Blackout Period apparently ended Feb 7th. That doesn't mean that they can sail right away. There have to be structural tests, load tests, etc. You can't sail right away after you launch unless you have done all these things prior to lauching and that was impossible to do because of 28-Day crap OTUSA & the ACEA is responsible for.
What if LRBAR did their structural and load tests in Porstmouth and all they're doing in Bda is a lot of systems installations. Unlikely, but possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16486867_1631985666827860_91115164337944

 

3c9febe2.jpg

 

 

 

16700496_1631985693494524_22177065375490

 

16700299_1631985546827872_17871494032007

 

488fcb3b.jpg

 

So far so good..........if you ignore the flags and the AC45 :lol: Good luck with that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've met Dirk briefly in each of the last 3 AC's, he's a really cool, and smart guy.

 

edit: 'the technology needs to serve the sailors' is something OTUSA's Tom Speer (USA) is very good at too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of good semi technical content in Seahorse this month/March. Cannot recommend it highly enough. It basically contains much of the technical content that a good many people come here for and er....don't find.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lots of good semi technical content in Seahorse this month/March. Cannot recommend it highly enough. It basically contains much of the technical content that a good many people come here for and er....don't find.

Thanks, sounds like it is time to re-subscribe.

 

I mentioned Speer above, the technical content there is good reading too: http://www.tspeer.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

16486867_1631985666827860_91115164337944

 

3c9febe2.jpg

 

 

 

16700496_1631985693494524_22177065375490

 

16700299_1631985546827872_17871494032007

 

488fcb3b.jpg

 

So far so good..........if you ignore the flags and the AC45 :lol: Good luck with that!

So if there were strict nationality rules this time around we would be looking at three unelployed guys ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ No idea the point of those posts either but the Designers part of the 'constructed in the country' sentiment is obviously big for BAR, as it is for OTUSA (majority USA designers) and GTF. ETNZ's designers appear to be mostly Italian, not sure about AR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stingers,

Regarding Dirk Kramers: Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool just because the Results on their T3 were medicore. Kramers knows how to built AC winning Boats, just sayin :)

I don't see how "Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool" yet there's absolutely no problem with anyone and everyone writing off ETNZ too soon. Double standards much??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Stingers,

Regarding Dirk Kramers: Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool just because the Results on their T3 were medicore. Kramers knows how to built AC winning Boats, just sayin :)

I don't see how "Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool" yet there's absolutely no problem with anyone and everyone writing off ETNZ too soon. Double standards much??

 

Maybe, but there is no doubt that ETNZ are further behind with their program than BAR and probably everybody except the French. They are also going to get less sailing time with their AC50 than the others (except TF). I believe that they are also hampered by having stripped their surrogate AC45 for parts for the AC50, so they cannot even train on a relevant boat at the moment. I am not writing them off, because we have no idea what they will come up with for their AC50 package, but if you are setting the odds based on their program, you would say they are a long shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Stingers,

Regarding Dirk Kramers: Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool just because the Results on their T3 were medicore. Kramers knows how to built AC winning Boats, just sayin :)

I don't see how "Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool" yet there's absolutely no problem with anyone and everyone writing off ETNZ too soon. Double standards much??

 

Maybe, but there is no doubt that ETNZ are further behind with their program than BAR and probably everybody except the French. They are also going to get less sailing time with their AC50 than the others (except TF). I believe that they are also hampered by having stripped their surrogate AC45 for parts for the AC50, so they cannot even train on a relevant boat at the moment. I am not writing them off, because we have no idea what they will come up with for their AC50 package, but if you are setting the odds based on their program, you would say they are a long shot.

 

LOL, neither of the two Teams are a long shot. Just clownish.

 

Again, you seem unable to understand plain English. I never said BAR was a long shot and I specifically stated that based on worked the odds solely based on their program (time on the water etc), they would be considered a long shot. Please do not keep posting antagonistic comments when it is clear you do not understand what is written.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Stingers,

Regarding Dirk Kramers: Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool just because the Results on their T3 were medicore. Kramers knows how to built AC winning Boats, just sayin :)

I don't see how "Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool" yet there's absolutely no problem with anyone and everyone writing off ETNZ too soon. Double standards much??

 

Maybe, but there is no doubt that ETNZ are further behind with their program than BAR and probably everybody except the French. They are also going to get less sailing time with their AC50 than the others (except TF). I believe that they are also hampered by having stripped their surrogate AC45 for parts for the AC50, so they cannot even train on a relevant boat at the moment. I am not writing them off, because we have no idea what they will come up with for their AC50 package, but if you are setting the odds based on their program, you would say they are a long shot.

 

LOL, neither of the two Teams are a long shot. Just clownish.

 

Guess we were both hooked by the troll. Note to self: Don't Feed the Troll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

Stingers,

Regarding Dirk Kramers: Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool just because the Results on their T3 were medicore. Kramers knows how to built AC winning Boats, just sayin :)

I don't see how "Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool" yet there's absolutely no problem with anyone and everyone writing off ETNZ too soon. Double standards much??

 

Maybe, but there is no doubt that ETNZ are further behind with their program than BAR and probably everybody except the French. They are also going to get less sailing time with their AC50 than the others (except TF). I believe that they are also hampered by having stripped their surrogate AC45 for parts for the AC50, so they cannot even train on a relevant boat at the moment. I am not writing them off, because we have no idea what they will come up with for their AC50 package, but if you are setting the odds based on their program, you would say they are a long shot.

 

LOL, neither of the two Teams are a long shot. Just clownish.

 

Guess we were both hooked by the troll. Note to self: Don't Feed the Troll

 

I love a good fight, and without wishing to choose sides, out of curiosity, are you saying that Glenn Ashby is lying when they say that their program has been far from ideal compared with other teams? I have known Glenn since he was a kid, and he says it as it is. If they weren't behind, he wouldn't say it. He doesn't play the mind games that Dalton tries to. He seems to me to have been pretty open about this, both in person and in the press.

 

Who is the troll? The person who repeats what the team is saying and supports it with evidence based on actual days sailed or the person who has blind faith but doesn't back it up with any evidence?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL, neither of the two Teams (BAR, ETNZ) are a long shot.

Oh they are. Consider the maths.

 

OR has to be 50/50 to retain the Cup. I don't see how anyone except the terminally partisan could really say at the moment that any of Artemis, BAR or ETNZ are favourites among the challengers. So that's 15% chance each. Leaving 5% for TF and SBJ. 15% is a long shot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

LOL, neither of the two Teams (BAR, ETNZ) are a long shot.

 

Oh they are. Consider the maths.

OR has to be 50/50 to retain the Cup. I don't see how anyone except the terminally partisan could really say at the moment that any of Artemis, BAR or ETNZ are favourites among the challengers. So that's 15% chance each. Leaving 5% for TF and SBJ. 15% is a long shot.

It's hard to argue with that right now, other than I think Artemis may be less than an equal chance compared to ETNZ and BAR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With TV schedules likely to dictate that racing occurs regardless of conditions, I fear that results may be a bit random and not necessarily in favour of the best/fastest boat...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By all means recalculate the odds for BAR and ETNZ with a higher probability of an Oracle win. The point I was making only gets stronger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

Maybe, but there is no doubt that ETNZ are further behind with their program than BAR and probably everybody except the French. They are also going to get less sailing time with their AC50 than the others (except TF). I believe that they are also hampered by having stripped their surrogate AC45 for parts for the AC50, so they cannot even train on a relevant boat at the moment. I am not writing them off, because we have no idea what they will come up with for their AC50 package, but if you are setting the odds based on their program, you would say they are a long shot.

 

I don't see how "Anyone who is writing off BAR too soon is a fool" yet there's absolutely no problem with anyone and everyone writing off ETNZ too soon. Double standards much??

 

 

LOL, neither of the two Teams are a long shot. Just clownish.

 

Guess we were both hooked by the troll. Note to self: Don't Feed the Troll

 

I love a good fight, and without wishing to choose sides, out of curiosity, are you saying that Glenn Ashby is lying when they say that their program has been far from ideal compared with other teams? I have known Glenn since he was a kid, and he says it as it is. If they weren't behind, he wouldn't say it. He doesn't play the mind games that Dalton tries to. He seems to me to have been pretty open about this, both in person and in the press.

 

Who is the troll? The person who repeats what the team is saying and supports it with evidence based on actual days sailed or the person who has blind faith but doesn't back it up with any evidence?

 

really? last i heard GA said he was pretty happy with the program

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Noticably little spray or rooster tails from the foils or rudders compared to the 45... more efficient I assume?

 

 

They might have gone for a quick blast... BAR 50.jpg

That wing is interesting. They sem to be doing the 'beast' mode, or am I wrong? Looks beautiful <3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well they were almost lo riding with all lifting surfaces a meter below the water in the first pic, no upTipping

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They might have gone for a quick blast...attachicon.gifBAR 50.jpg

 

Thanks, where did this come from? I have looked for a source but am yet to find it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Team like ETNZ which is basically AC Family and has a tremendous Challenger & Cup History Record ain't going to have a longshot at this. Anyone who is saying they have a longshot is just talking bogus.

talking bogus....pretty much sums you up....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I love a good fight, and without wishing to choose sides, out of curiosity, are you saying that Glenn Ashby is lying when they say that their program has been far from ideal compared with other teams? I have known Glenn since he was a kid, and he says it as it is. If they weren't behind, he wouldn't say it. He doesn't play the mind games that Dalton tries to. He seems to me to have been pretty open about this, both in person and in the press.

 

Who is the troll? The person who repeats what the team is saying and supports it with evidence based on actual days sailed or the person who has blind faith but doesn't back it up with any evidence?

 

Glen has always said he is happy with where the team is at, and that although they may not have the time on the water that other teams have, that they have never been behind on the design side of things. Glen also believes they have a good shot at winning this Americas Cup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

I love a good fight, and without wishing to choose sides, out of curiosity, are you saying that Glenn Ashby is lying when they say that their program has been far from ideal compared with other teams? I have known Glenn since he was a kid, and he says it as it is. If they weren't behind, he wouldn't say it. He doesn't play the mind games that Dalton tries to. He seems to me to have been pretty open about this, both in person and in the press.

 

Who is the troll? The person who repeats what the team is saying and supports it with evidence based on actual days sailed or the person who has blind faith but doesn't back it up with any evidence?

Glen has always said he is happy with where the team is at, and that although they may not have the time on the water that other teams have, that they have never been behind on the design side of things. Glen also believes they have a good shot at winning this Americas Cup.
One or two miss calculated crosses and France has a good chance of winning . Times are very early yet and lots of time for Lady Luck to throw in a screwball or two . On such a tight race track the chances of a solid collision is on the high side which would cause a team to resort to its back up boat . Oh wait :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

One or two miss calculated crosses and France has a good chance of winning . Times are very early yet and lots of time for Lady Luck to throw in a screwball or two . On such a tight race track the chances of a solid collision is on the high side which would cause a team to resort to its back up boat . Oh wait :)

 

 

Valid point. What does the Protocol say about a collision resulting in a disablement of an AC50? I think the collision-causing party will find themselves in NYSC very promptly if it results in a team being unable to continue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

They might have gone for a quick blast... BAR 50.jpg

(Squinting) Is that for certain their AC50 and not T3?

Perfect example of how much this sucks .

 

When you can't tell the difference between the " race " boat and the practice boat .

 

ac lite at its best .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

They might have gone for a quick blast... BAR 50.jpg

(Squinting) Is that for certain their AC50 and not T3?
Perfect example of how much this sucks .

 

When you can't tell the difference between the " race " boat and the practice boat .

 

ac lite at its best .

Yes, many of the T's are hard to discern from what the 50's will likely look like.

 

The LRBAR FB page today has what was a live video interview with people sitting on R1 in the shed, that was posted (though maybe not recorded) at about the time that photo was posted to Instagram, and in the video they speak about sailing it maybe by mid week, weather depending. They did not sound at all like they were in 'get up and go mode.'

 

It's possible that the plan suddenly changed but did it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Instagram photo is straight off Ben Lamb's Instagram, who is a crew member of the Softbank team, he could be playing but looks like the 50 to me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Instagram photo is straight off Ben Lamb's Instagram, who is a crew member of the Softbank team, he could be playing but looks like the 50 to me?

Agree, since he's on SBTJ there's a good chance he worded the caption correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to laugh at all the self proclaimed experts who cannot even spot the difference between the BAR test boat and their AC50. FFS! ook at the position of the rudders. on the test boat, they are hung off the back of the boat. on this, the AC50, they are under the boat. As for the amount of spray of the foils, you don't think that could that have anything to do with ride height and speed :wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm, BAR sail their ac50 for the first time and only one picture is there. And it's from a private sbtj account. On the other hand, when ETNZ sail their ac50 for the first time, before the official lainch date, many photos are out there. Including in Sail World. Either I've gone loopy or something's not quite right here in Bda.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to laugh at all the self proclaimed experts who cannot even spot the difference between the BAR test boat and their AC50. FFS! ook at the position of the rudders. on the test boat, they are hung off the back of the boat. on this, the AC50, they are under the boat. As for the amount of spray of the foils, you don't think that could that have anything to do with ride height and speed :wacko:

It's nearly 24 hours since that photo appeared. Does the complete absence of the story from any other source not give you the slightest pause for thought? Do we think a commercial team taking tens of millions in sponsorship money not make some kind of PR event of the first sailing?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stingray, when you watch the above video I think great, these guys are in good shape......but then you watch Oracle's equivalent tech/information/data video and I cannot help thing that Oracle is 5 years ahead.... going to be so hard to beat Oracle. Just 'unlimted' funds to turn over every stone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stingray, when you watch the above video I think great, these guys are in good shape......but then you watch Oracle's equivalent tech/information/data video and I cannot help thing that Oracle is 5 years ahead.... going to be so hard to beat Oracle. Just 'unlimted' funds to turn over every stone.

I think both teams, maybe others too, get huge value from companies that have already-built kit. Trying to reinvent some of that would cost serious millions. In the case of Oracle partners yes Airbus is big (15 engineers assigned??) but Parker Hannefin is very specialized/expensive aero tech too.

 

What impresses me most about LRBAR is their IT.

 

edit: ncs made a comment, about that 'spy' photo with the robo-headgear, that struck a chord, something like 'look what ETNZ are up against.'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://instagram.com/p/BQgFt95gjb6/

 

If you look closely at the hull closest to the dock you can see what looks like a foil. Basically confirming they went for a sail.

After that photo was published, LRBAR had a live Facebook feed, sitting on Rita 1. They even mentioned they were not planning to sail that day.

The photo was not R1, it was quite obviously T3.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

https://instagram.com/p/BQgFt95gjb6/

If you look closely at the hull closest to the dock you can see what looks like a foil. Basically confirming they went for a sail.

After that photo was published, LRBAR had a live Facebook feed, sitting on Rita 1. They even mentioned they were not planning to sail that day.

The photo was not R1, it was quite obviously T3.

Are you saying that the guys on LRBAR know more than we do ?

 

 

That's preposterous !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stingray, when you watch the above video I think great, these guys are in good shape......but then you watch Oracle's equivalent tech/information/data video and I cannot help thing that Oracle is 5 years ahead.... going to be so hard to beat Oracle. Just 'unlimted' funds to turn over every stone.

 

Wouldn't say oracle turned over every stone... They're still turning their stones with their arms ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great body positions...........................point of concern as someone once said..........................

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its kicking up a lot of water there...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

They might have gone for a quick blast... BAR 50.jpg

(Squinting) Is that for certain their AC50 and not T3?

Perfect example of how much this sucks .

 

When you can't tell the difference between the " race " boat and the practice boat .

 

ac lite at its best .

 

 

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So what ya got LABAR?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ see last post -previous page for..

 

A Christmas Tree, the Hunchback of Notre-dam, a passenger, 'simple' foils, a parcour exponent and massive twist!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ see last post -previous page for..

 

A Christmas Tree, the Hunchback of Notre-dam, a passenger, 'simple' foils, a parcour exponent and massive twist!

 

Ah huh. Fuck all then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Videos will be more helpful but in the photos above the grinder group appears to be cruising more than actual grinding . You have to stand for full power , I know that from personal experience , but in the photos above they are shown in a more relaxed and therefor aero preferred position . Perhaps they have improved their hydraulic / trim situation .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like they had a good day today weather wise and tomorrow will be more of the same 8- 10. Tuesday looks breezey but the rest of the week should be 8 - 12 .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what are the features of the Team UK boat?

 

Haven't heard anything about it at all!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

photos and comments in this thread?

 

Need more - better get on your way to Bda, 'cause LARBAR's PR efforts have slowed way down since their big 'reveal', read into that what you will.

 

There is usually a bit of nepotism on a Tuesday IIRC, if you want to hear about husbands, dogs and kids?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They have just been getting on and sailing, what's the issue with that?

 

So far they have more time in the race boat than anyone else, just cause that haven't lifted the skirts and given you the money shot doesn't mean they aren't working

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

BAR MOB and strong foiling tack. Looks like some of the problems BAR are supposed to have are exaggerated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

BAR MOB and strong foiling tack. Looks like some of the problems BAR are supposed to have are exaggerated.

 

What? Based on one tack (and losing a man overboard as well). I think they could do better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

photos and comments in this thread?

 

Need more - better get on your way to Bda, 'cause LARBAR's PR efforts have slowed way down since their big 'reveal', read into that what you will.

 

There is usually a bit of nepotism on a Tuesday IIRC, if you want to hear about husbands, dogs and kids?

Let's be a little fair here . If it was NZ we were looking for team info on and weren't getting it you would be saying they were just playing it close to their chest and learned a lesson last time . I don't think we will see much from any of the teams unless by accident . Yes NZ showed us all spin class but little else and that's to be expected from all the players . Remember this forum is most likely the only ones left that gives a shit about the Americas Cup anymore .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

BAR MOB and strong foiling tack. Looks like some of the problems BAR are supposed to have are exaggerated.

That's not their AC50 surely??

 

Look at the rudders. It is T3. Earlier reports were they could not foil in the light, and they did not pull any foiling tacks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

BAR MOB and strong foiling tack. Looks like some of the problems BAR are supposed to have are exaggerated.

 

What? Based on one tack (and losing a man overboard as well). I think they could do better.

 

That is exactly the point, it took no effort to pull off that tack. Look at the grinders. Sure they were slowing up, but they seem to have plenty of power.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

BAR MOB and strong foiling tack. Looks like some of the problems BAR are supposed to have are exaggerated.

 

What? Based on one tack (and losing a man overboard as well). I think they could do better.

 

That is exactly the point, it took no effort to pull off that tack. Look at the grinders. Sure they were slowing up, but they seem to have plenty of power.

 

 

But you missed the point again. One tack... a race does not make. (Even though these flying circus races are over quicker than you can say, "I'll just clean this up".)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone that reads a weakness in BAR because they failed to complete practice races, only show bits of crappy tacks etc are being a bit dumb IMHO. This is a race build up where most of the teams are in the same area. Showing it all at this point is stupid, misinformation is king.

 

Remember how black magic was being written off as a bit of a dog before tgey opened her up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone that reads a weakness in BAR because they failed to complete practice races, only show bits of crappy tacks etc are being a bit dumb IMHO. This is a race build up where most of the teams are in the same area. Showing it all at this point is stupid, misinformation is king.

 

Remember how black magic was being written off as a bit of a dog before tgey opened her up.

 

Well, if Rita's 'troubles' is subterfuge, it's being well played.

 

Sir Peter's crew were indeed masters at it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But you missed the point again. One tack... a race does not make.

Absolutely. This is so much less impressive than all those videos of the Flying Pedalo sailing around an entire race course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

But you missed the point again. One tack... a race does not make.

Absolutely. This is so much less impressive than all those videos of the Flying Pedalo sailing around an entire race course.

 

 

:) Touché

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, those full race course vids that Team pedalos press office were so considerate in putting together that have been all over the inter webs....🤔

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's just recap, 2 weeks ago, with no video:

"LBAR can't even do a foiling tack, their systems are so inefficient their grinders are dying"

With video:

"Just because you've seen them do that effortlessly, it doesn't mean they can do it all the time!"

 

Let me make a prediction in two weeks when you see an f-tack on Rita:

"Their boat doesn't have anything unique"

 

You people really are a joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, those full race course vids that Team pedalos press office were so considerate in putting together that have been all over the inter webs....

 

Do you have an original thought?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's just recap, 2 weeks ago, with no video:

"LBAR can't even do a foiling tack, their systems are so inefficient their grinders are dying"

With video:

"Just because you've seen them do that effortlessly, it doesn't mean they can do it all the time!"

 

Let me make a prediction in two weeks when you see an f-tack on Rita:

"Their boat doesn't have anything unique"

 

You people really are a joke.

People can underestimate the most successful sailor in Olympic history at their peril. I imagine ETNZ don't, and probably accept that Team BAR looms as not an insignificant obstacle in their path to an appointment with OR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm starting to really wonder how much gamesmanship is going on the grinder/power situation for the teams... With a lot of things being one-design and the general issues with hydraulics, I think this is a serious area where teams can psych other teams out. ETNZ has everyone thinking if they have a enough power, is OR really efficient in their systems, is BAR inefficient?

 

Granted its one tack, but I am really curious how well these boats fly with the grinders not doing much.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailbydate, Original thought?

 

No I prefer to believe and vomit out I'll informed guess work suggested by others who are experts cos they have been on a forum for ages

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What? Based on one tack (and losing a man overboard as well). I think they could do better.

 

 

He got tired with all the excessive grinding and decided to swim to the pub. That's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone that reads a weakness in BAR because they failed to complete practice races, only show bits of crappy tacks etc are being a bit dumb IMHO. This is a race build up where most of the teams are in the same area. Showing it all at this point is stupid, misinformation is king.

 

Remember how black magic was being written off as a bit of a dog before tgey opened her up.

 

This. Don't trust those dodgy Limey bastards! 8-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailbydate, Original thought?

 

No I prefer to believe and vomit out I'll informed guess work suggested by others who are experts cos they have been on a forum for ages

 

Yes. I see that. That's why I asked the question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of you seem to make things up as you go along. I honestly cannot remember anybody say anything about BAR not being able to do a foiling tack, because that would have been stupid as it has been shown on video before. i also cannot remember anybody commenting on light wind foiling being a weakness, especially seeing that their one and on;y race win was in light winds.

 

I am also surprised that the collective wisdom is so poor and it leads to a question. Do any of you actually race? If you did, you would understand that what happens in a race is very different from what happens in practice. in practice, I can do a foiling tack on my Moth every single time. On the race course, I fail occasionally because of factors you cannot reproduce in training. Anybody using "evidence" from training as proving they can do something in racing is pretty clueless. BAR have looked fine in training. They have looked fast, they have looked stable and their grinders have looked unstressed yet when they raced, they were slow, they had flight stability issues and they ran out of hydraulics. How do we know this when there was no video? Because lots of people are saying so, including some observers who aren't part of any team. Even one poster on here who was there watching has posted his observations. It is either a huge conspiracy that everybody has bought into in order to undermine BAR or else there has to be some truth in it. The problem occurs when racing dictates when you do things. Sometimes, even a delay of one second can be the difference between a smooth moment and not. In training, nobody notices if a tack or gybe is delayed by a second or 2. If there isn't enough hydraulics to pull in the wing, you delay heading up, for a second or 2 and nobody would notice.

 

Some of you are also in some sort of fantasy world if you think that BAR dropped out of so many races and lost all but one in order to provide "misinformation". While there is no way of knowing for sure if any of the teams were using their best gear and what their maximum potential is, at very least you would expect some degree of competitiveness. Even before they lined up in Bermuda, there had been rumours from a number of decent sources that BAR was off the pace. I chose to ignore them until they were in Bermuda and had lined up against others, but as much as it pains me to say so, all evidence now points to serious issues in 2 areas, boat speed in anything but very light conditions and hydraulics. As much as i want to believe they can sort the problems, this is not like the situation with OR when they were 8-0 down. OR had all the right gear and it was a case of learning how to use it. It seems that with BAR, their foils are wrong and something significant within their systems is also a problem. the suggestion is that this is pretty well "back to the drawing board" stuff and if this is so, there is not enough time. Maybe I am a pessimist, but I believe I am a realist. I also don't think that being a realist makes you any less of a fan. Just ask anybody who supports Arsenal. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites