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    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Barnyb

Team UK

4,404 posts in this topic

Ben and lads will doubtless rue the lost two races to the breakage in the wing.  TNZ will doubtless be thankful their capsize was in the 2nd race not the first and that they got an extra day to fix the boat.  It would have been exciting to see Ben cut and thrust in the starting box one more time.

But at the end of the day, the faster, better boat won......and Peter Burling is a unique and exceptional talent on foils.

For all kinds of reasons I wish I could support TNZ to win the whole thing.  I really like NZ and the people. I am in awe of the quality of the sailing team. But I cannot bring myself to support the only team that has opted out of the framework agreement.  I love this racing. I love this format......it is the most spectacular sail boat racing in the history of the sport taking match racing to a new level......and if TNZ wins, there seems to be a risk that it disappears.    

Does this mean I have to be hoping for Artemis to shock the kiwis?

I dont think STJ has enough in its armory to shake TNZ

I think Artemis has the boat but Im not convinced that Nathan O has the same sixth sense as PB when it comes to foiling.

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Looks like Ben is heading home to a hung parliament. In shock election results, the Tories may have lost their majority.

First Brexit. Then Corbyn. Its like the Brits want to rip up their economy like tissue paper and throw it into the Channel.

Soon their won't be any money for a second challenge.

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1 minute ago, Mambo Kings said:

Ben and lads will doubtless rue the lost two races to the breakage in the wing.  TNZ will doubtless be thankful their capsize was in the 2nd race not the first and that they got an extra day to fix the boat.  It would have been exciting to see Ben cut and thrust in the starting box one more time.

But at the end of the day, the faster, better boat won......and Peter Burling is a unique and exceptional talent on foils.

For all kinds of reasons I wish I could support TNZ to win the whole thing.  I really like NZ and the people. I am in awe of the quality of the sailing team. But I cannot bring myself to support the only team that has opted out of the framework agreement.  I love this racing. I love this format......it is the most spectacular sail boat racing in the history of the sport taking match racing to a new level......and if TNZ wins, there seems to be a risk that it disappears.    

Does this mean I have to be hoping for Artemis to shock the kiwis?

I dont think STJ has enough in its armory to shake TNZ

I think Artemis has the boat but Im not convinced that Nathan O has the same sixth sense as PB when it comes to foiling.

Very honest answer. Yes, I agree. This is sooo exciting to watch. That Final Race between ART and SBTJ today was a classic. So close all the way around. The two Races between ART and ETNZ in the Qualifiers were barnburners.

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I really hope Sir Ben gets to review his AC35 campaign, make adjustments, and gets the funding needed for AC36 - wherever and in whatever boats they'll be sailed in. The America's Cup is all the better for the Sir Bens, Russell Coutts, Grant Daltons, Tom Ehmans, Dennis-the Menace, etc.

I had picked BAR to be in the final with ETNZ, but those early RR1 and RR2 results didn't do them any favours and consequently they were exposed to being selected by whoever won the RRs.

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Mambo,

If ART loses to TNZ in the Challenger Finals it won't be because NO & IP don't have the skills and balls to do it, it will be because of fatigue.

ART would have to race:

Today 3 Races, Tomorrow potentially 2, Saturday 3, Sunday 3 and Monday 3. That's 14 Races in 5 Days without having a Day off. Ok, Monday might be washed out but still. That's pretty much an "Mission Impossible" task to do. 

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4 minutes ago, Indio said:

I had picked BAR to be in the final with ETNZ, but those early RR1 and RR2 results didn't do them any favours and consequently they were exposed to being selected by whoever won the RRs.

I agree, i also think the practice races done more damage. Another factor, I know LRBAR had the fortune of the acws points but by the end i think they were the 3rd best team, they beat ART twice and prob SJP twice aswell had they not banged in to them on the start. ETNZ were the only team that could confidently take them out at that time so it was a shrewd move to beat them before they had the chance to improve the speed of the boat, had they taken SJP, the weakest team according to the RR, they might have given LRBAR time to develop and sneak through against ART.

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41 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

Looks like Ben is heading home to a hung parliament. In shock election results, the Tories may have lost their majority.

First Brexit. Then Corbyn. Its like the Brits want to rip up their economy like tissue paper and throw it into the Channel.

Soon their won't be any money for a second challenge.

Corbyn is perhaps the biggest political retard the world has ever seen.

 

45 minutes ago, Mambo Kings said:

Ben and lads will doubtless rue the lost two races to the breakage in the wing.  TNZ will doubtless be thankful their capsize was in the 2nd race not the first and that they got an extra day to fix the boat.  It would have been exciting to see Ben cut and thrust in the starting box one more time.

But at the end of the day, the faster, better boat won......and Peter Burling is a unique and exceptional talent on foils.

For all kinds of reasons I wish I could support TNZ to win the whole thing.  I really like NZ and the people. I am in awe of the quality of the sailing team. But I cannot bring myself to support the only team that has opted out of the framework agreement.  I love this racing. I love this format......it is the most spectacular sail boat racing in the history of the sport taking match racing to a new level......and if TNZ wins, there seems to be a risk that it disappears.    

Does this mean I have to be hoping for Artemis to shock the kiwis?

I dont think STJ has enough in its armory to shake TNZ

I think Artemis has the boat but Im not convinced that Nathan O has the same sixth sense as PB when it comes to foiling.

I don't think the two lost races really changed the overall outcome.

There would have been more of us here in Kiwiland with even more frazzled nerves, but that 1st race just showed how far behind the "arms race" BAR actually were.

As talented as Benny is, its pretty hard to win with that sort of disadvantage.

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Corbyn is perhaps the biggest political retard the world has ever seen.

1. I think you may be forgetting about a certain orange American.

2. Educated opinion in the UK seems to show that May is in fact the devil.

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1 minute ago, kawalski said:

1. I think you may be forgetting about a certain orange American.

2. Educated opinion in the UK seems to show that May is in fact the devil.

Nope, I stand by my comment.

Trump was reasonably astute in the leadup to the election. Corbyn has been a bumblefuck all along.

I suspect he is only doing so well because the Remoaners are hoping they can stop Brexit by getting this retard elected,

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13 minutes ago, jaysper said:

As talented as Benny is, its pretty hard to win with that sort of disadvantage.

It was interesting to hear BA when asked by the Telegraph reporter what in hindsight he thought might have been the problem. BA immediately spoke about the Designers, the F1 influence trying to get onboard and understand sailing, the early commitment to 'the Best of British' etc.

It will also be interesting to see if BAR maintains that general path in a (hopefully, I guess) next run at the Cup.

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5 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I suspect he is only doing so well because the Remoaners are hoping they can stop Brexit by getting this retard elected,

Well when you have people who voted for Brexit because "The Germans are getting to big for their boots and need to be reminded who won the war"

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Just now, kawalski said:

Well when you have people who voted for Brexit because "The Germans are getting to big for their boots and need to be reminded who won the war"

Well, the first part of that sentence is correct. They have made out like burglars due to an artificially low currency and have thrown their weight around left right and centre.

The Greek, Spanish, Irish and Portuguese Governments should have collectively told them to fuck off.

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11 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It was interesting to hear BA when asked by the Telegraph reporter what in hindsight he thought might have been the problem. BA immediately spoke about the Designers, the F1 influence trying to get onboard and understand sailing, the early commitment to 'the Best of British' etc.

It will also be interesting to see if BAR maintains that general path in a (hopefully, I guess) next run at the Cup.

With the huge bags of money they have they should get in fast and poach some design talent.  Designers can win AC's, sailors can only lose them.

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2 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

So the slow boat was able to take a win from a team that has only been beaten by the defenders?

That second race today was odd I agree. It was the only one where ETNZ decided, for almost the entire race, to be on opposite tack/gybe to BAR. I wonder if they didn't partially think they would test themselves to see if they were quick enough as to beat BAR regardless. The way they beat BAR in the first and third races today made it pretty clear there was a fairly obvious performance gap upwind. Unless the second race was a mode-testing attempt by ETNZ which didn't go as planned.

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3 minutes ago, bob202 said:

That second race today was odd I agree. It was the only one where ETNZ decided, for almost the entire race, to be on opposite tack/gybe to BAR. I wonder if they didn't partially think they would test themselves to see if they were quick enough as to beat BAR regardless. The way they beat BAR in the first and third races today made it pretty clear there was a fairly obvious performance gap upwind. Unless the second race was a mode-testing attempt by ETNZ which didn't go as planned.

Their manoeuvres were total shit. If they had been as smooth in the other races, they would have overtaken them.

The problem that occurred in the 1st race reared its ugly head in the 2nd? Only reasonable explanation I can come up with because they didn't just suddenly forget how to tack and gybe on foils.

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42 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Their manoeuvres were total shit. If they had been as smooth in the other races, they would have overtaken them.

The problem that occurred in the 1st race reared its ugly head in the 2nd? Only reasonable explanation I can come up with because they didn't just suddenly forget how to tack and gybe on foils.

No surprise you forgot that team BAR sailed a near perfect race against a faster boat...

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41 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Their manoeuvres were total shit. If they had been as smooth in the other races, they would have overtaken them.

The problem that occurred in the 1st race reared its ugly head in the 2nd? Only reasonable explanation I can come up with because they didn't just suddenly forget how to tack and gybe on foils.

Gashby interview said that they just sailed like a "bag of spanners", not calling out any tech issues in Race 2, scary if true.  BAR caught a couple of nice shifts too.

All boats have nearly identical efficient top speeds (around 40kts), so very little difference between boats on reaches or downwind as they are all pressing up against the incipient cavitation wall where drag starts to skyrocket.  The big differences are upwind where boat speeds are 30kts and reduced windage and foil drag can make a big difference to the multiple of wind speed that can be held.

 

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I think it is amazing how much all teams have improved in the short time they have been here.

Particularly Bar and GTF.

Sir Ben will be a formidable competitor next AC particularly if he gives up the helm.

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

It was interesting to hear BA when asked by the Telegraph reporter what in hindsight he thought might have been the problem. BA immediately spoke about the Designers, the F1 influence trying to get onboard and understand sailing, the early commitment to 'the Best of British' etc.

It will also be interesting to see if BAR maintains that general path in a (hopefully, I guess) next run at the Cup.

This was definitely an issue for BAR, they were too keen to get the best British designers, engineers etc. rather than getting the best in the world. Maybe they needed to do that to push the nationlistic aspect in order to raise funding, but it was a stupid approach.

As for the F1 guys, definitely valuable in terms of design and engineering process, this is where companies like McClaren are outstanding. But possibly not much they could contribute directly to the design of the boat.

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On the face of it design conservatism seems to have been where they fell short. Rejecting cyclors on the grounds of safety early in the process and building a boat that can be sailed at the top end but that they had to push to perform so hard reliability ultimately suffered. Perhaps a lack of team capital in terms of where the edge of the envelope was as how close you have to go to it to win.

A massive amount in control, software and analysis that the F1 guys could bring to the table.

One thing they have done better than some GB challenges. When the boat has shown up slow they have, from the outside at least, kept the team united and pushed what they had to the limit.

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7 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

If ETNZ win the Cup all Challengers racing in AC35 are done for good IMO.

True! NZ is a rural backwater that no one visits and can't host a sporting event....

yeah right.

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7 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

So, are you really claiming SBTJ had more money than BAR? According to Christopher Clarey of the NY Times in an Article he published just before Racing begun Land Rover BAR has had an estimated 90 Million Pound Budget which translates into about $ 116 Million. They were budget-wise the 2nd best financed Team after Defender Oracle Team USA.

I am CLAIMING that neither Artemis funded by a fucking billionaire and SBTJ funded by another fucking billionaire 

are not scratching around for loose change to keep their program going!

so are you going to take me up on the offer to come and slag off the boys when you come to the uk? To their faces, repeat the pathetic stream of drivel? 

You wont will you? Too much of a pussy to leave the safety of your bedroom and your keyboard. You disgust everyone here you do realise that? 

 

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1 minute ago, JALhazmat said:

I am CLAIMING that neither Artemis funded by a fucking billionaire and SBTJ funded by another fucking billionaire 

are not scratching around for loose change to keep their program going!

so are you going to take me up on the offer to come and slag off the boys when you come to the uk? To their faces, repeat the pathetic stream of drivel? 

You wont will you? Too much of a pussy to leave the safety of your bedroom and your keyboard. You disgust everyone here you do realise that? 

 

we'll send......her to calm you down ok

ena.png

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The bottom line is that the UK have.............for as long as anyone can remember..........never produced a fast boat........Victory, Lionheart...GBR Challenge........Land Rover BAR............Oink! Oink!.........None of them anywhere near competitive enough to justify the sailing talent trying to drag the ship round the course..............And I doubt things will change in the next campaign.....Its always jobs for the boys.........and they won't be able to poach the design talent thats leading A C design...........They have however released sea trials of the prototype AC 36 boat :) #BringthePUPhome

rentals-bike.jpg

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5 hours ago, Brian Weslake said:

This was definitely an issue for BAR, they were too keen to get the best British designers, engineers etc. rather than getting the best in the world. Maybe they needed to do that to push the nationlistic aspect in order to raise funding, but it was a stupid approach.

As for the F1 guys, definitely valuable in terms of design and engineering process, this is where companies like McClaren are outstanding. But possibly not much they could contribute directly to the design of the boat.

For the upteeth time they couldn't get the Designers they wanted. Most of them are with Artemis so they had to do/were forced to do something different. That's the downside when you have to built a Team up from scratch.

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4 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

I am CLAIMING that neither Artemis funded by a fucking billionaire and SBTJ funded by another fucking billionaire 

are not scratching around for loose change to keep their program going!

so are you going to take me up on the offer to come and slag off the boys when you come to the uk? To their faces, repeat the pathetic stream of drivel? 

You wont will you? Too much of a pussy to leave the safety of your bedroom and your keyboard. You disgust everyone here you do realise that? 

 

Artemis is 70-80% funded by the big pockets of Torbjörn Törnqvist who is a billionaire you brat.

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4 hours ago, aucklander said:

True! NZ is a rural backwater that no one visits and can't host a sporting event....

yeah right.

I'll lease my House and say Ben Ainslie will not contest the Cup if it's held in monohulls & Auckland.

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37 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I'll lease my House and say Ben Ainslie will not contest the Cup if it's held in monohulls & Auckland.

So far your predictions ain't doing so well

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1 minute ago, MR.CLEAN said:

So far your predictions ain't doing so well

Give me a good reason why he would do that.

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Just now, Alinghi4ever said:

Give me a good reason why he would do that.

Cause he would have a higher chance of winning?

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I'll lease my House and say Ben Ainslie will not contest the Cup if it's held in monohulls & Auckland.

it won't be in monohulls.  it would be in Auckland.

I don't really think you have much of an idea of what an interconnected world looks like.  What I do know is this - that the Bermuda based americas cup has attracted only marginally more than zero press in the UK, and that most Americans feel shame that an American team has chosen to defend in an offshore tax haven.  And yes, I track The Mail, BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, Indi etc in the UK.  The lack of quality and quantity of articles for coverage is incredible.  So all those crying about Euro sponsorship and exposure that would be lost by going to Auckland and not in the North American / European timezone are talking bullshit.   

Racing in Auckland, or Southampton, or Freo, or Sydney, or Newport would all work in terms of coverage - there would simply be more  bums on seats  to stoke interest from those places.  Racing in Bermuda is dumb from a sponsorship point of view - the only thing Bermuda is good for is it's tax status for those unwilling to pay their way, and a decent lagoon.  But there are plenty of lagoons around the South Pacific.  I've been to them.  

Returning to Auckland, I know how many A380s and 777s come into AKL every day, anyone who lives in the city sees them - this is an interconnected global city where major organisations have offices.  So nice try if you think an AC won't work in AKL. It would. If ETNZ win (though I'm well aware they are not favourites) Auckland would be perfectly able to host a world class event in what is a world class global city.  

And yes.  I've been to, and stayed in Augsburg on more than one occasion if you need me to have a frame of reference. I even had a nice time there, but global.....

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10 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

Cause he would have a higher chance of winning?

This is all about sustaining a Team and what Grant Dalton & TNZ are planning for the future of the AC will tear Teams apart not sustaining them.

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Grow some balls.  

The AC is about trying to win an exceptionally difficult prize, not the sustainability of the masses - it's that fact that makes it so beguiling and so utterly incredible to win.

If you are not going in it to win, and if your team can't persuade someone with deep pockets you are good enough (something team NZ have consistently done) with all due respect, don't enter. 

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8 minutes ago, aucklander said:

 What I do know is this - that the Bermuda based americas cup has attracted only marginally more than zero press in the UK.

I can't say I read the sports pages. I can tell you however that the BBC has given AC35 more coverage than I can remember since Perth.

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And winning it gives you alpha status and scores all the hot chicks.......woohoo..!!

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1 minute ago, aucklander said:

it won't be in monohulls.  it would be in Auckland.

I don't really think you have much of an idea of what an interconnected world looks like.  What I do know is this - that the Bermuda based americas cup has attracted only marginally more than zero press in the UK, and that most Americans feel shame that an American team has chosen to defend in an offshor tax haven.  And yes, I track The Mail, BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, Indi etc in the UK.  The lack of quality and quantity of articles for coverage is incredible.  So all those crying about Euro sponsorship and exposure that would be lost by going to Auckland and not in the North American / European timezone are talking bullshit.   

Racing in Auckland, or Southampton, or Freo, or Sydney, or Newport would all work in terms of coverage - there would simply be more  bums on seats  to stoke interest in those places.  Racing in Bermuda is dumb from a sponsorship point of view - the only thing Bermuda is good for is it's tax status for those unwilling to pay their way, and a decent lagoon.  But there are plenty of lagoons around the South Pacific.  I've been to them.  

Returning to Auckland, I know how many A380s and 777s come into AKL every day, anyone who lives in the city sees them - this is an interconnected global city where major organisations have offices.  So nice try if you think an AC won't work in AKL. It would. If ETNZ win (though I'm well aware they are not favourites) Auckland would be perfectly able to host a world class event in what is a world class global city.  

And yes.  I've been to, and stayed in Augsburg on more than one occasion if you need me to have a frame of reference. I even had a nice time there, but global.....

Hmmm....if you could assure that it won't be in monohulls that would be nice but unfortunately you can't. I'm sure Auckland could host a world class sailing Event. Auckland is the least problem for me if TNZ wins the Cup, Grant Dalton is the big problem here.

I just give you a few items what he said during AC 34:

# 1 The Boats are too expensive & too dangerous = Translation monohulls

# 2 It's important we do this Country vs Country = Nationality Rule

# 3 The ACWS is crap = We don't need these.

Are you really so naive that you think he all of the sudden changed his mind about that in 4 years time? I don't.

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Xeroxs bits are built here.

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7 minutes ago, aucklander said:

Grow some balls.  

The AC is about trying to win an exceptionally difficult prize, not the sustainability of the masses - it's that fact that makes it so beguiling and so utterly incredible to win.

If you are not going in it to win, and if your team can't persuade someone with deep pockets you are good enough (something team NZ have consistently done) with all due respect, don't enter. 

LOL, TNZ has had a 40-60 Million $ budget at most for AC 35...so where are the big pockets you are referring to?

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Go watch Extreme sailing

Foiling beach cats that any one can play and get payed in a crappie stadium course

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As Ms. Bunting from YW was at the presser... pre LandieBAR crashing out a day or so back....Ainslie has confirmed they're very much on for AC36 with major sponsors still onboard...

http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/108224-108224

Key quotes:

Ainslie said: “I think ultimately we weren’t able to catch up the existing teams in time. We are one of the newest teams and catching up with those years and years of experience, expertise and engineering design is incredibly difficult..."

And...

“Today Land Rover have re-signed with the team as our title and exclusive innovation partner” as has 11th Hour Racing.

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You may well LOL, but people are LOL'ing at you .....

because every year sponsors have paid to have their stickers on the hulls, sails, wings and rudders of NZ boat since the 90s.

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BTW i'm now going to withdraw from the argument with the troll, i'm well aware this is a thread hijack and I unreservedly apologise to Team UK supporters.  As per my earlier post, I wish the team well and I hope they come back, in whatever location, and in whatever form.  Go well.

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aucklander,

Think about this: The Main Reason Groupama Team France and Land Rover BAR could challenge for the 35th America's Cup was the America's Cup World Series. Ben had an Entry to the 2012/2013 World Series named JP Morgan BAR and a lot of people who worked for GTF were embattled in French Sailing Teams like Aleph and Energy Team in the World Series. Ben could go from there.

If TNZ wins it the earliest possible Cup Defence would be 2021. Without having an ACWS or any AC Events for 4 years it becomes almost impossible for existing AC 35 Teams to sustain themselves that's why I said all AC 35 will fall apart and I stand by that.

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5 minutes ago, aucklander said:

BTW i'm now going to withdraw from the argument with the troll, i'm well aware this is a thread hijack and I unreservedly apologise to Team UK supporters.  As per my earlier post, I wish the team well and I hope they come back, in whatever location, and in whatever form.  Go well.

I'm not a troll. I'm just telling you the truth. As I said above if you believe that Teams even like for example Land Rover BAR can sustain themselves without having AC Events leading up to a potential NZ defence in 2021 you're pretty naive. It won't happen.

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10 minutes ago, Marinatrix447 said:

As Ms. Bunting from YW was at the presser... pre LandieBAR crashing out a day or so back....Ainslie has confirmed they're very much on for AC36 with major sponsors still onboard...

http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/108224-108224

Key quotes:

Ainslie said: “I think ultimately we weren’t able to catch up the existing teams in time. We are one of the newest teams and catching up with those years and years of experience, expertise and engineering design is incredibly difficult..."

And...

“Today Land Rover have re-signed with the team as our title and exclusive innovation partner” as has 11th Hour Racing.

Can Ben sustain Land Rover BAR for 4+ years without having any AC Events to play with to please sponsors. I doubt it.

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Eh? The likelihood of BAR being the next CoR must be high

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5 minutes ago, rgeek said:

Eh? The likelihood of BAR being the next CoR must be high

Impossible, BAR is not a yacht club, and cannot challenge. They may represent RYS if GGYC win again. But I believe there will be an Italian sitting next to the commodore of the RNZYS when they win back the cup.

Having said that I bet LE already has his dummy challenger set up again. It's worked well for him the last 2 times.

 

However for the cups sake, I just hope we never get to find out.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, aucklander said:

Grow some balls.  

The AC is about trying to win an exceptionally difficult prize, not the sustainability of the masses - it's that fact that makes it so beguiling and so utterly incredible to win.

If you are not going in it to win, and if your team can't persuade someone with deep pockets you are good enough (something team NZ have consistently done) with all due respect, don't enter. 

Beguiling. You're right. It's like nothing else. No Olympian ethos here.BTW I really like the swearing on board this time round from all the Brits in the regatta by the way. They're awesome. 

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47 minutes ago, aucklander said:

You may well LOL, but people are LOL'ing at you .....

because every year sponsors have paid to have their stickers on the hulls, sails, wings and rudders of NZ boat since the 90s.

How much money is behind those stickers from year to year is the important part.  

If you are not going in it to win, and if your team can't persuade someone with deep pockets you are good enough (something team NZ have consistently done) with all due respect, don't enter. 

Matteo De Nora won't live forever.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Artemis is 70-80% funded by the big pockets of Torbjörn Törnqvist who is a billionaire you brat.

Alinghi4ever   

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   6 hours ago,  JALhazmat said: 

I am CLAIMING that neither Artemis funded by a fucking billionaire and SBTJ funded by another fucking billionaire 

are not scratching around for loose change to keep their program going!

so are you going to take me up on the offer to come and slag off the boys when you come to the uk? To their faces, repeat the pathetic stream of drivel? 

You wont will you? Too much of a pussy to leave the safety of your bedroom and your keyboard. You disgust everyone here you do realise that? 

 

Artemis is 70-80% funded by the big pockets of Torbjörn Törnqvist who is a billionaire you brat.

Well maybe if you bothered to read what i wrote (now in bold so you don't miss it) you wouldn't look so much of a cunt 

 

when is alinghi competing again? Oh not while the bigger boys are still playing with the AC 

what happened when they lost their hired help? A massive public ass fucking watching Larry sail off into the distance 

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Alinghi4ever   

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   6 hours ago,  JALhazmat said: 

I am CLAIMING that neither Artemis funded by a fucking billionaire and SBTJ funded by another fucking billionaire 

are not scratching around for loose change to keep their program going!

so are you going to take me up on the offer to come and slag off the boys when you come to the uk? To their faces, repeat the pathetic stream of drivel? 

You wont will you? Too much of a pussy to leave the safety of your bedroom and your keyboard. You disgust everyone here you do realise that? 

 

Artemis is 70-80% funded by the big pockets of Torbjörn Törnqvist who is a billionaire you brat.

Well maybe if you bothered to read what i wrote (now in bold so you don't miss it) you wouldn't look so much of a cunt 

 

when is alinghi competing again? Oh not while the bigger boys are still playing with the AC 

what happened when they lost their hired help? A massive public ass fucking watching Larry sail off into the distance 

I don't really care about Alinghi winning the AC again. They may do a VOR the next time though.

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1 hour ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Give me a good reason why he would do that.

Cause that's what his team exists for, and that's how he sold his sponsors on funding it for 5 years.

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Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

Cause that's what his team exists for, and that's how he sold his sponsors on funding it for 5 years.

I say it's not going to happen. They not going to stick with him for 4 more years (2021) if they have no ACWS or something simlar AC Events leading up to the next Cup.

Look what happened to Team Origin.

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1 hour ago, rgeek said:

Eh? The likelihood of BAR being the next CoR must be high

If ETNZ win the cup, I hope very much that BAR is the CoR. But I can't remember how the CoR is determined. Maybe RC has to decide ... yawn

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Just now, TN_Kiwi said:

If ETNZ win the cup, I hope very much that BAR is the CoR. But I can't remember how the CoR is determined. Maybe RC has to decide ... yawn

Nah.  ETNZ-AUS has their poodle lined up already.  An Italian one no less.

WetHog  :ph34r:

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4 minutes ago, TN_Kiwi said:

If ETNZ win the cup, I hope very much that BAR is the CoR. But I can't remember how the CoR is determined. Maybe RC has to decide ... yawn

Ben said he doesn't want to be CoR and because BAR signed the Framework and ETNZ didn't that pretty much eliminated BAR as CoR.

The only way BAR becomes CoR is if Artemis wins it and that's highly doubtful.

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7 minutes ago, WetHog said:

Nah.  ETNZ-AUS has their poodle lined up already.  An Italian one no less.

WetHog  :ph34r:

WetHog, passano gli anni ma il dente avvelenato non ti passa eh? Occhio a non morsicarti la lingua :-))))

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1 hour ago, Marinatrix447 said:

As Ms. Bunting from YW was at the presser... pre LandieBAR crashing out a day or so back....Ainslie has confirmed they're very much on for AC36 with major sponsors still onboard...

http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/108224-108224

Key quotes:

Ainslie said: “I think ultimately we weren’t able to catch up the existing teams in time. We are one of the newest teams and catching up with those years and years of experience, expertise and engineering design is incredibly difficult..."

And...

“Today Land Rover have re-signed with the team as our title and exclusive innovation partner” as has 11th Hour Racing.

I hope they come back.  It was great to see the Brits back in the cup for a change.  BAR availed themselves well.  Just not good enough.  

Its just a shame that the UK lost 2 points due to a structural failure while NZ crashes their boat and they get a reprieve due to the weather.  It sucks that there is a not an abandonment card they could play for that eventuality.  Anyway, not whining.  The rules are what they are.  I just hate to see a team lose off the water.  

 

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9 minutes ago, strider470 said:

WetHog, passano gli anni ma il dente avvelenato non ti passa eh? Occhio a non morsicarti la lingua :-))))

Yes, Italian poodles are the best.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

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Awhinging4ever HTFU…

Think, look and listen before committing your monkey paws to keyboard…

Sir Ben… giving an excellent summary of where LandieBAR are going… and come what may they’ll be there for the next AC series.

 

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Just now, WetHog said:

Yes, Italian poodles are the best.  

WetHog  :ph34r:

ahahahah. ;-) Hope we can have another Italian challenge in the future in any case. I miss the action. Ciao

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1 minute ago, Marinatrix447 said:

Awhinging4ever HTFU…

Think, look and listen before committing your monkey paws to keyboard…

Sir Ben… giving an excellent summary of where LandieBAR are going… and come what may they’ll be there for the next AC series.

 

I don't trust Burling. Is Peter & Dalton that stupid selecting BAR as CoR.

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2 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

I'm not a troll. I'm just telling you the truth. As I said above if you believe that Teams even like for example Land Rover BAR can sustain themselves without having AC Events leading up to a potential NZ defence in 2021 you're pretty naive. It won't happen.

Having ignored most of your posts for the last few weeks I've realised that you have serious mental issues.

What gives? What drives you to be so incessantly nasty and argumentative? I know there's the thrill of being able to say whatever you want when you're anonymous behind a keyboard but you seem to not realise not only how much of a troll it makes you look - which you may not care about - but also how much damage you do to yourself mentally by being so gleefully nasty and specious at every turn.

Every additional nasty, argumentative post you write reinforces your own antisocial leanings to yourself. We can already see it from the outside, it's you who seems to not to realise it. Perhaps something to consider is this: if you were to look back on all these posts in 4 or 5 or 6 years time and you showed them to your friends - what would they think of you? They wouldn't be proud, they wouldn't commend you on your wittiness or ability to troll people? They would be disgusted, possibly even ashamed. Would you aspire to being regarded in that light by people you know and like? No....

The anonymity of these boards shouldn't be your shield from treating everyone else with respect and dignity. You are responsible for what you type and even a quick sampling of what you've written in the last few weeks by any objective observer would lead to the conclusion that you are an antisocial cunt. Not only that, one who is so socially retarded as to not even recognise that every single thing you type here achieves nothing other than cementing your obvious mental illness further.

Why don't you wake up tomorrow and decide to turn over a new leaf and join the adult world and let things slide a bit more, and try and contribute to discussions here in the tone which most others do - thinking well of people, considering other viewpoints, giving others the benefit of the doubt, being a pleasant person who considers what they say as if they were saying it to a person's face? Why not try it - you would surely enjoy your time here, and everyone else would too.

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1 minute ago, bob202 said:

Having ignored most of your posts for the last few weeks I've realised that you have serious mental issues.

What gives? What drives you to be so incessantly nasty and argumentative? I know there's the thrill of being able to say whatever you want when you're anonymous behind a keyboard but you seem to not realise not only how much of a troll it makes you look - which you may not care about - but also how much damage you do to yourself mentally by being so gleefully nasty and specious at every turn.

Every additional nasty, argumentative post you write reinforces your own antisocial leanings to yourself. We can already see it from the outside, it's you who seems to not to realise it. Perhaps something to consider is this: if you were to look back on all these posts in 4 or 5 or 6 years time and you showed them to your friends - what would they think of you? They wouldn't be proud, they wouldn't commend you on your wittiness or ability to troll people? They would be disgusted, possibly even ashamed. Would you aspire to being regarded in that light by people you know and like? No....

The anonymity of these boards shouldn't be your shield from treating everyone else with respect and dignity. You are responsible for what you type and even a quick sampling of what you've written in the last few weeks by any objective observer would lead to the conclusion that you are an antisocial cunt. Not only that, one who is so socially retarded as to not even recognise that every single thing you type here achieves nothing other than cementing your obvious mental illness further.

Reckon you cold wake up tomorrow and decide to turn over a new leaf and join the adult world and let things slide a bit more, and try and contribute to discussions here in the tone which most others do - thinking well of people, considering other viewpoints, giving others the benefit of the doubt, being a pleasant person who considers what they say as if they were saying it to a person's face? Why not try it - you would surely enjoy your time here and everyone else would too.

Oh really, tell that to the NZ Fan Boys who seems to beholden and can do whatever they want on this board without facing any sanctions. I just can't stand these guys. It's just too much in the AC Sailing here on SA.

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1 minute ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Oh really, tell that to the NZ Fan Boys who seems to beholden and can do whatever they want on this board without facing any sanctions. I just can't stand these guys. It's just too much in the AC Sailing here on SA.

That's your reply? All you have is the five year old's defence of "but they did it too"?

You are responsible for what you type. Nothing makes an argument die like not giving it fuel by way of a response. If you want to debate a point, fine. But most of your posts aren't doing that, they're just you being a cunt - and by the dozens of posts each day by the looks of it. You would be doing yourself a favour in the mental health department by deciding you would limit yourself to 5 posts a day, or to simply add a couple of person you argue with the most to your ignore list.

Mature people tend to avoid hanging out with people they cannot stand. They don't waste their time dealing with them and certainly don't chase them down to argue incessantly as if they're going to somehow win some internet competition. You're wasting your time and energy on something which can only result in more antagonism coming your way (and so on). You can solve it by simply being picky about what you respond to or not responding at all. You can even ignore people altogether. It's so piss easy most 15 year olds have figured it out.

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1 minute ago, bob202 said:

That's your reply? All you have is the five year old's defence of "but they did it too"?

You are responsible for what you type. Nothing makes an argument die like not giving it fuel by way of a response. If you want to debate a point, fine. But most of your posts aren't doing that, they're just you being a cunt - and by the dozens of posts each day by the looks of it. You would be doing yourself a favour in the mental health department by deciding you would limit yourself to 5 posts a day, or to simply add a couple of person you argue with the most to your ignore list.

Mature people tend to avoid hanging out with people they cannot stand. They don't waste their time dealing with them and certainly don't chase them down to argue incessantly as if they're going to somehow win some internet competition. You're wasting your time and energy on something which can only result in more antagonism coming your way (and so on). You can solve it by simply being picky about what you respond to or not responding at all. You can even ignore people altogether. It's so piss easy most 15 year olds have figured it out.

Let's get one thing straight: You ain't my mother and I'm certainly not allowing you what I have to do and what I don't. I think I've made my Points pretty clear why I don't think it's in the best interest that the Kiwis retake the Cup. Some agree, some disagree.

The Problem here on SA in the AC Forum: Anyone who disagrees with the Kiwi Fanboys gets shunned. What they want to hear is everyone preaching to their cause and I will not do that.

I'll leave it at that.

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1 hour ago, strider470 said:

ahahahah. ;-) Hope we can have another Italian challenge in the future in any case. I miss the action. Ciao

I agree.  I have nothing against Italians.  My issue was how a once proud AC team in Luna Rosa felt the need to be ENTZs bitch for AC34.  

Still love their boats though.  One of the best looking boats in AC history. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

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8 hours ago, Barnyb said:

BAR watching the AC

Land_Rover_BAR_-watching AC35.jpg

That is funny- alpha/beta #bring the cup home to a broken country.

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15 minutes ago, WetHog said:

I agree.  I have nothing against Italians.  My issue was how a once proud AC team in Luna Rosa felt the need to be ENTZs bitch for AC34.  

Still love their boats though.  One of the best looking boats in AC history. 

WetHog  :ph34r:

It's Rossa!!! not Rosa. Please :))) Rosa is Pink, Rossa is Red.

Ciao

Strider

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Pink would be good though.

Hey, what about a requirement for a woman to be in the on-water crew for every race in the next AC? I know it sounds sexist, and kind of a 'token' effort at forcing diversity, but it would be interesting to see how the teams would make that happen, and might stimulate some new corporate sponsorship. There are plenty of outstanding internationally ranked women sailors, of course.

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3 hours ago, chocoa said:

That is funny- alpha/beta #bring the cup home to a broken country.

Hey my photo made the front page!

I am bloody famous.

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2 hours ago, TN_Kiwi said:

Pink would be good though.

Hey, what about a requirement for a woman to be in the on-water crew for every race in the next AC? I know it sounds sexist, and kind of a 'token' effort at forcing diversity, but it would be interesting to see how the teams would make that happen, and might stimulate some new corporate sponsorship. There are plenty of outstanding internationally ranked women sailors, of course.

Great idea. Lets not pick the best crews but the most PC crew. Should one of the crew also be black? What about someone who is Gay. You might like to apply yourself. 

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45 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Great idea. Lets not pick the best crews but the most PC crew. Should one of the crew also be black? What about someone who is Gay. You might like to apply yourself. 

I was coming from a strictly financial/promotional perspective - there are approx 50% women in the world - a great target for boat sponsors (less so, the other worthy minority groups you and another poster mentioned)

Just FYI:  http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/what-is-the-volvo-ocean-race.html

"In 2017-18, there is a renewed emphasis on the Southern Ocean and a new set of rules too – incentivising mixed crews of male and female sailors and more strategic innovation out on the racecourse.

"

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wasn't it Dalton that did a Whitbread leg with an all woman crew and said it was the worst conditions he'd ever sailed in ?

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6 minutes ago, 167149 said:

wasn't it Dalton that did a Whitbread leg with an all woman crew and said it was the worst conditions he'd ever sailed in ?

Oh you are naughty!!B)

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6 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Let's get one thing straight: You ain't my mother and I'm certainly not allowing you what I have to do and what I don't. I think I've made my Points pretty clear why I don't think it's in the best interest that the Kiwis retake the Cup. Some agree, some disagree.

The Problem here on SA in the AC Forum: Anyone who disagrees with the Kiwi Fanboys gets shunned. What they want to hear is everyone preaching to their cause and I will not do that.

I'll leave it at that.

luckily you have so little impact on the final result that it barely raises a yawn, this whole shit fight will be decided on the water by the fastest/ slickest/ most cohesive team, now whether that is artemis, oracle or etnz is yet to be seen, what is known though is that the end result will be the best of the best and I for one will not let nationality re flags of convenience stand in the way of enjoying sport for being sport.......may the best team win

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1 hour ago, TN_Kiwi said:

I was coming from a strictly financial/promotional perspective - there are approx 50% women in the world - a great target for boat sponsors (less so, the other worthy minority groups you and another poster mentioned)

Just FYI:  http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/what-is-the-volvo-ocean-race.html

"In 2017-18, there is a renewed emphasis on the Southern Ocean and a new set of rules too – incentivising mixed crews of male and female sailors and more strategic innovation out on the racecourse.

"

Yes oddly enough the Volvo announcement isn't news to anyone - but that is just as fucked. If a female is good enough to get a gig on a Volvo or AC boat then great ( there are several who are) but forcing the teams to put a women on the crew is in fact sexist. On most boats the token women is only going to be on the boat because she has a pussy. If there is a black, gay women who belives in climate change and only has one arm she would be a shoe in. All the minorities will be covered. Even better if she can sail. What is next? Making every pro basket ball team pick a dwarf? 

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9 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Let's get one thing straight: You ain't my mother and I'm certainly not allowing you what I have to do and what I don't. I think I've made my Points pretty clear why I don't think it's in the best interest that the Kiwis retake the Cup. Some agree, some disagree.

The Problem here on SA in the AC Forum: Anyone who disagrees with the Kiwi Fanboys gets shunned. What they want to hear is everyone preaching to their cause and I will not do that.

I'll leave it at that.

Well you need your mother to give you some sage advice. Invite her to read your posts here and then ask her what she thinks? She'd be disappointed or disgusted I'd bet - as would any reasonable person.

As for making your points clearly, you haven't. The only thing you've made clear is you're an antisocial troll who apparently has nothing better to do than be nasty. You know you're doing it and you know it's bad form - why not try and break the habit. It doesn't mean being a whimp or agreeing with everyone, or even showing weakness. It means growing up and acting like a normal, functioning adult.

Of course there are problems on this forum - but each member can only control their own posts. You intentionally post to incite arguments many times a day, often completely speciously and without any apparent level of knowledge, or interest in gaining knowledge. It doesn't matter what others post, kiwi fanboys or not, you don't have to chase down all the posts you disagree and respond.

Since it's not sinking it maybe think of it this way. If you acted in real life like you do here you would get knocked out on a weekly basis. Do you get knocked out on a weekly basis? I doubt it - people aren't that stupid when the consequences are so acute. Don't make the mistake of thinking being behind a keyboard prevents any harm. You inflict mental harm on yourself every time you post the rubbish you do. It's habit-forming and reflects really poorly on your mental state - and it'll only get worse if you don't recognise it and act on it.

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5 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Great idea. Lets not pick the best crews but the most PC crew. Should one of the crew also be black? What about someone who is Gay. You might like to apply yourself. 

The Rainbow Team?

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

If there is a black, gay women who belives in climate change and only has one arm she would be a shoe in. 

I think Mel would rather stay in Melb.

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3 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Yes oddly enough the Volvo announcement isn't news to anyone - but that is just as fucked. If a female is good enough to get a gig on a Volvo or AC boat then great ( there are several who are) but forcing the teams to put a women on the crew is in fact sexist. On most boats the token women is only going to be on the boat because she has a pussy. If there is a black, gay women who belives in climate change and only has one arm she would be a shoe in. All the minorities will be covered. Even better if she can sail. What is next? Making every pro basket ball team pick a dwarf? 

Making every pro basket ball team pick a dwarf?  Good one!!!

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* From Adrian Morgan:

I'll be upsetting a load of Ben's fans, but if he knew they were slow months ago, according to his own words, and behind the curve technically, and made some too hasty decisions about design, then why were we lead to believe that the Cup was ever coming home? I can understand the tactic of talking things up, putting on a brave face, backs against the wall etc. (we are British after all) but was this for the sponsors', or supporters' benefit? Despite all the talk about a plucky, first time challenge, learning curves (steep or otherwise) and "we'll be back", is that really going to happen, and should it? Soon there'll be criticism of money spent/wasted and the usual British delight in retrospection and recrimination. But the truth is a lot of money was spent on a yacht race that a lot of hospitals would have benefited from.

Spot on Adrian Morgan writing in Scuttlebutt. Too much talking up for the sake of sponsors and PR.  

 

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9 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

* From Adrian Morgan:

I'll be upsetting a load of Ben's fans, but if he knew they were slow months ago, according to his own words, and behind the curve technically, and made some too hasty decisions about design, then why were we lead to believe that the Cup was ever coming home? I can understand the tactic of talking things up, putting on a brave face, backs against the wall etc. (we are British after all) but was this for the sponsors', or supporters' benefit? Despite all the talk about a plucky, first time challenge, learning curves (steep or otherwise) and "we'll be back", is that really going to happen, and should it? Soon there'll be criticism of money spent/wasted and the usual British delight in retrospection and recrimination. But the truth is a lot of money was spent on a yacht race that a lot of hospitals would have benefited from.

Spot on Adrian Morgan writing in Scuttlebutt. Too much talking up for the sake of sponsors and PR.  

 

I think that's bullshit.

Firstly it would be a disaster to come out and say they were slow. Secondly there was always the chance that they could close the gap.

Thirdly, as far as I know the majority of the cash came from sponsors and private backers, so that money was NEVER going to be used to build hospitals. 

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"Thirdly, as far as I know the majority of the cash came from sponsors and private backers, so that money was NEVER going to be used to build hospitals "

Correct. According to Mills, who presumably knows. BAR had a budget of £110M. 90% of that was private money. I understand the general taxpayer and the Portsmouth taxpayer subsidised the base to the tune of £9M and £2M respectively (the latter I believe being ground clearance costs). The £9M came from a budget to develop new economic activity in Portsmouth following the ending of naval ship maintenance. I don't take the view that building BAR's HQ was the right use of public money. However it wasn't going to be used for "hospitals" in any case.

 

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And thanks to the base being in the UK, the team staying in the UK for most of the cycle, most of the team being British and living in Britain and a lot of the suppliers being British most of the money has already gone back into the uk economy.

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Tom Cary of the Daily Telegraph says British Media missed their chance to sell America's Cup...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2017/06/15/british-tv-missed-chance-sell-americas-cup-f1-water-nation/

They gambled too much on Ainslie being in the Final. The entire BT Sport TV Team moderated by Clare Balding just arrived a few Days ago.

I maintain Land Rover BAR will not challenge for AC 36 if it's in Auckland.

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On 2017-6-15 at 8:17 PM, rgeek said:

And thanks to the base being in the UK, the team staying in the UK for most of the cycle, most of the team being British and living in Britain and a lot of the suppliers being British most of the money has already gone back into the uk economy.

BAR made a few mistakes, and I maintain that most with an external eye will see that an incredible olympic sailor in class x does not necessarily make an incredible ceo and leader of a team of 100 people in class y.  

But one thing that BAR can't be faulted for, is that it is undoubtedly and unashamedly British.  Hats off to them for that.

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18 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Tom Cary of the Daily Telegraph says British Media missed their chance to sell America's Cup...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2017/06/15/british-tv-missed-chance-sell-americas-cup-f1-water-nation/

They gambled too much on Ainslie being in the Final. The entire BT Sport TV Team moderated by Clare Balding just arrived a few Days ago.

I maintain Land Rover BAR will not challenge for AC 36 if it's in Auckland.

The accuracy of your predictions not so good so far though are they spanky? 

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1 minute ago, jaysper said:

The accuracy of your predictions not so good so far though are they spanky? 

Why would Ainslie go to Auckland? His sponsors would have no benefits. Hopefully European Teams are boykotting Auckland.

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20 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

 

I maintain Land Rover BAR will not challenge for AC 36 if it's in Auckland.

Well that would be a big fucking waste of £100M wouldn't it? 

If they're in it to win eventually, they need to keep playing the game. It wasn't fun for ETNZ to head to the other side of the world to play in Valencia, SF and Bermuda, but we have. 

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1 minute ago, aucklander said:

BAR made a few mistakes, and I maintain that most with an external eye will see that an incredible olympic sailor in class x does not necessarily make an incredible ceo and leader of a team of 100 people in class y.  

But one thing that BAR can't be faulted for, is that it is undoubtedly and unashamedly British.  Hats off to them for that.

They were never going to win it 1st time around. No one ever has.

And don't give me the Alinghi bullshit.

That was just etnz rebranded. If Ernie had started a team from scratch like Torbjorn has, he may never have won it.

I do wonder what an arrogant little fuck like that actually thinks he achieved.  I would argue fuck all.

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2 minutes ago, Rangi said:

Well that would be a big fucking waste of £100M wouldn't it? 

If they're in it to win eventually, they need to keep playing the game. It wasn't fun for ETNZ to head to the other side of the world to play in Valencia, SF and Bermuda, but we have. 

Unlikely Ainslie gets another 100 M Pounds.

They're not in to win it. GB winning the America's Cup was a Pipe-Dream and that will stay in the pipe forever.

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5 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Why would Ainslie go to Auckland? His sponsors would have no benefits. Hopefully European Teams are boykotting Auckland.

Schultzy...... you were warned

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16 minutes ago, aucklander said:

BAR made a few mistakes, and I maintain that most with an external eye will see that an incredible olympic sailor in class x does not necessarily make an incredible ceo and leader of a team of 100 people in class y.  

But one thing that BAR can't be faulted for, is that it is undoubtedly and unashamedly British.  Hats off to them for that.

Ainslie wasn't the problem, Whitmarsh was. Every mistake should be blamed on Whitmarsh not Ainslie.

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28 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Why would Ainslie go to Auckland? His sponsors would have no benefits. Hopefully European Teams are boykotting Auckland.

That will include Alinghi too with a bit of luck.

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13 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Ainslie wasn't the problem, Whitmarsh was. Every mistake should be blamed on Whitmarsh not Ainslie.

for fucks sake..........the immature blame game........again they just weren't in it period , despite the time at ETNZ and Oracle arrogance got them, something constructive please Schultzy, I suspect you " Zee nuffink"......and it shows

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1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

That will include Alinghi too with a bit of luck.

Alinghi should stay out of it.

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