Barnyb

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Well in a sense they are. Advertising eyeballs. It's obvious that the nationality angle is for the masses. Wealthy business-people are invested in the global economy in all senses of the word. Busy, busy, scuttling through the airports of the world.

 

"On arriving with a third language
Tucked into your briefcase, next to your toothbrush
Along with a copy of the Nouvelle Observateure"

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You would think given where they get their moolla but a number of the BAR backers seem to be fond of flying the flag. A lot of them are on record in saying the sporting interest is in bringing the Cup back to Blighty. "It's the biggest sporting challenge the Brits have never won", Team Origin and 'Bring the Cup Home' etc.

Every none Brit on the team is a fly in that ointment.

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On 9/11/2017 at 9:57 AM, dogwatch said:

 

"On arriving with a third language
Tucked into your briefcase, next to your toothbrush
Along with a copy of the Nouvelle  Observateure"

Noice - you might want to work on your second language though. FIFY

 

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British sailing legend Ben Ainslie says it would be astonishing...a huge shame" if the 2021 America's Cup was staged outside of New Zealand.

In the wake of revelations that Team New Zealand's demand for a massive hosting fee could see the event held in Abu Dhabi or Russia, Ainslie weighed in with his support for a New Zealand venue. He has also revealed there are significant issues to be dealt with, particularly in driving the costs down for the teams.

He personally didn't care if it was held elsewhere, but told Newstalk ZB's Tony Veitch that New Zealand deserved to be the hosts and it would be crazy to turn down the economic benefits.

...

"It is definitely really appealing from a competition standpoint. But the one thing I would say about this boat is it will be very expensive. It won't be a cheap campaign to be successful, to beat Team New Zealand.

"As it stands, that will limit the number of teams who come down. Our intention is to enter once the window opens, and we've discussed it with partners and investors.

"We need to discuss some of the clauses in terms of the cost of the event, the World Series events and the cup match itself...challenging teams are up for funding a certain amount of those costs and that's not necessarily that well defined.

"There are a few areas which need clearing up before we entered but we are certainly working towards an America's Cup in New Zealand. But there is a fair way to go in negotiating class rules and details around the event...the location itself is going to be a big discussion item."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11948029

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challenging teams are up for funding a certain amount of those costs and that's not necessarily that well defined.

"There are a few areas which need clearing up before we entered

BA may be pointing to some of the clauses I noted too, where in the Protocol costs to Challengers are left wide open - especially in the case of each ACWS event where they are required to contribute something like $335K each ‘plus any other costs that become necessary.’

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On Thursday, November 09, 2017 at 2:59 AM, Barnyb said:

Ben Ainslie is determined to atone in 2021

BEN AINSLIE admits he cannot wait to get going with another bid to win the America’s Cup after the ‘pain’ of missing out in Bermuda earlier this year.

 

‘It’s still a bitter disappointment, despite how well it went in many ways, because we didn’t win in Bermuda and that is painful,’ the 40-year-old told Metro.

‘But if anything it’s heightened my determination to go and put that right next time. We set high standards for ourselves and everyone is doing this for just one reason, and that is to win the America’s Cup.’

‘I didn’t come back from Bermuda feeling much went our way in the luck stakes,’ said the skipper.

https://www.metro.news/ben-ainslie-is-determined-to-atone-in-2021/812017/

Dear Ben ,

good luck with that...enjoy the 45 that OR gave you. No freebies this time around.

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Sir Ben Ainslie won over by Team New Zealand's 75ft foiling monohull

Emirates Team New Zealand’s concept drawings for the next America’s Cup boat – a 75ft foiling monohull – have drawn lavish praise from rival teams, with Sir Ben Ainslie describing it as a “truly high-performance boat” which will be “as quick as or quicker than the foiling catamarans raced in the last Cup”.

 

"The Defender, Emirates Team New Zealand, and the Challenger of Record, Luna Rossa, have delivered a truly high-performance boat that will make the next America's Cup an incredible sporting and technical challenge,” he said. "We look forward to the opportunity to consult with the Defender and Challenger of Record ahead of the final class rule being announced at the end of March. We can't wait to start tackling the design and engineering challenges in this new class.

 

 

"It's early days, but our modelling is indicating that these boats are capable of 50 knots. Ultimately it will be a hell of challenge to sail a boat like this... we'll get there, it's definitely do-able.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2017/11/21/sir-ben-ainslie-won-team-new-zealands75ft-foiling-monohull/

 

 

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On 08/11/2017 at 6:59 PM, Barnyb said:

Ben Ainslie is determined to atone in 2021

BEN AINSLIE admits he cannot wait to get going with another bid to win the America’s Cup after the ‘pain’ of missing out in Bermuda earlier this year.

 

‘It’s still a bitter disappointment, despite how well it went in many ways, because we didn’t win in Bermuda and that is painful,’ the 40-year-old told Metro.

‘But if anything it’s heightened my determination to go and put that right next time. We set high standards for ourselves and everyone is doing this for just one reason, and that is to win the America’s Cup.’

‘I didn’t come back from Bermuda feeling much went our way in the luck stakes,’ said the skipper.

https://www.metro.news/ben-ainslie-is-determined-to-atone-in-2021/812017/

Translation. 

 

I’m on very good deal and I want to keep my pay cheques coming in!! 

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19 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

British sailing legend Ben Ainslie says it would be astonishing...a huge shame" if the 2021 America's Cup was staged outside of New Zealand.

In the wake of revelations that Team New Zealand's demand for a massive hosting fee could see the event held in Abu Dhabi or Russia, Ainslie weighed in with his support for a New Zealand venue. He has also revealed there are significant issues to be dealt with, particularly in driving the costs down for the teams.

He personally didn't care if it was held elsewhere, but told Newstalk ZB's Tony Veitch that New Zealand deserved to be the hosts and it would be crazy to turn down the economic benefits.

...

"It is definitely really appealing from a competition standpoint. But the one thing I would say about this boat is it will be very expensive. It won't be a cheap campaign to be successful, to beat Team New Zealand.

"As it stands, that will limit the number of teams who come down. Our intention is to enter once the window opens, and we've discussed it with partners and investors.

"We need to discuss some of the clauses in terms of the cost of the event, the World Series events and the cup match itself...challenging teams are up for funding a certain amount of those costs and that's not necessarily that well defined.

"There are a few areas which need clearing up before we entered but we are certainly working towards an America's Cup in New Zealand. But there is a fair way to go in negotiating class rules and details around the event...the location itself is going to be a big discussion item."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11948029

Sitting on the fence while desperately hoping his job and income are secure!! <_<

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11 hours ago, Barnyb said:

Sir Ben Ainslie won over by Team New Zealand's 75ft foiling monohull

Emirates Team New Zealand’s concept drawings for the next America’s Cup boat – a 75ft foiling monohull – have drawn lavish praise from rival teams, with Sir Ben Ainslie describing it as a “truly high-performance boat” which will be “as quick as or quicker than the foiling catamarans raced in the last Cup”.

 

"The Defender, Emirates Team New Zealand, and the Challenger of Record, Luna Rossa, have delivered a truly high-performance boat that will make the next America's Cup an incredible sporting and technical challenge,” he said. "We look forward to the opportunity to consult with the Defender and Challenger of Record ahead of the final class rule being announced at the end of March. We can't wait to start tackling the design and engineering challenges in this new class.

 

 

"It's early days, but our modelling is indicating that these boats are capable of 50 knots. Ultimately it will be a hell of challenge to sail a boat like this... we'll get there, it's definitely do-able.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sailing/2017/11/21/sir-ben-ainslie-won-team-new-zealands75ft-foiling-monohull/

 

 

And the desperation has kicked in. It’s arse kissing all the way now. 

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6 minutes ago, mad said:

And the desperation has kicked in. It’s arse kissing all the way now. 

LOL! Yes, it is a little difficult to raise money all the while screaming how shit the boats are going to be and how utterly unprepared your team is to compete in them.

#DoesMyWalletLookBigInThis?

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31 minutes ago, Presuming Ed said:

So Claughton is now ex-BAR then?  Bainslie toes the party line and thinks they were 'unlucky' in bermuda?  Reckon that Grant will inject some painful realism into the camp if nothing else, something that Witless certainly didn't bring to the party.

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12 hours ago, GBH said:

 Bainslie toes the party line and thinks they were 'unlucky' in bermuda?  Reckon that Grant will inject some painful realism into the camp if nothing else, something that Witless certainly didn't bring to the party.

You are mistaking public statements for internal belief. Of course Ben is going to continue to sound bullish in public because he has serious sponsors to placate. None of them want to hear Ben say they were poor last time around, but you don't get to be a 4 time gold medallist by not being totally realistic about where you currently stand. Ben is totally ruthless in pursuit of his goals and he never makes excuses to his team, coaches etc. He has a total obsession (bordering on being unhealthy) to improve everything he can and that can only come by being totally realistic in your analysis of where you are today.

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14 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

You are mistaking public statements for internal belief. Of course Ben is going to continue to sound bullish in public because he has serious sponsors to placate. None of them want to hear Ben say they were poor last time around, but you don't get to be a 4 time gold medallist by not being totally realistic about where you currently stand. Ben is totally ruthless in pursuit of his goals and he never makes excuses to his team, coaches etc. He has a total obsession (bordering on being unhealthy) to improve everything he can and that can only come by being totally realistic in your analysis of where you are today.

Spot on. Just as he is "excited" about the AC75s.

He might be, but even if he hates the fuckers he will still be publicly "excited" because to be anything else would cause the trough to dry up quick smart.

The sanctimonious will call this lying and sure, technically it is. But in reality it is just PR.

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

I’m curious who-all designers Simmer will be bringing into the fold.

If Artemis doesn't go ahead, on of the obvious people would be Adam May. Artemis clearly had the second best design team, Ben knows Adam well. Simmer knows him because he was going to be part of the Origin campaign. If stories above are true, May has been keeping in touch with what is going on for Artemis. I'd be very surprised if May doesn't end up there and if you then look at who he has been working with on the Volvo inshore, it gives a clue as to who else might be involved.

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3 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

If Artemis doesn't go ahead, on of the obvious people would be Adam May. Artemis clearly had the second best design team, Ben knows Adam well. Simmer knows him because he was going to be part of the Origin campaign. If stories above are true, May has been keeping in touch with what is going on for Artemis. I'd be very surprised if May doesn't end up there and if you then look at who he has been working with on the Volvo inshore, it gives a clue as to who else might be involved.

I'm inclined to think that Artemis will continue because its at least as crazy arse shit as the AC50 was.

If they'd gone to something sensible TP52-ish, then they would presumably be gone. But now....

 

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My guess is that Verdier is who has been collaborating with ETNZ’s Bernasconi on behalf of LR and is going to Luna Rossa as a part of the agreement between P$B and GD.

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17 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I'm inclined to think that Artemis will continue because its at least as crazy arse shit as the AC50 was.

If they'd gone to something sensible TP52-ish, then they would presumably be gone. But now....

Yes, the crazy-arse factor must be enticing to AR but TT did also call for a reasonable-budget boat and spoke in support of the Framework’s ideas so I guess we’ll see. 

The guy who must be most enticed by this foiler craziness would surely have to be Larry. I wish he’d pull that trigger since passionate multi $B’s are exactly who this invitation is being delivered to and since LE got on board with and then delivered the impetus on foiling in the AC - with all the resulting, futuristic side-effects indirectly including now for this one.

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2 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yes, the crazy-arse factor must be enticing to AR but TT did also call for a reasonable-budget boat and spoke in support of the Framework’s ideas so I guess we’ll see. 

The guy who must surely be most enticed by this foiler craziness would surely have to be Larry. I wish he’d pull that trigger.

I don't think there is any hope of Artemis going ahead and that it is all a smokescreen. 2 things are against Artemis - budget and nationality rules. I think Percy is using the cover of Artemis to keep in touch while he gets his ducks in a row for what he will be doing.

As for Larry, it will not happen. He doesn't have anybody left. Spithill is out, Slingsby is out, the team is scattered . Larry was never an advocate for foiling. It happened anyway and he realised you couldn't go back. IMO, there was more chance if it had been a cat.

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13 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

I don't think there is any hope of Artemis going ahead and that it is all a smokescreen. 2 things are against Artemis - budget and nationality rules. I think Percy is using the cover of Artemis to keep in touch while he gets his ducks in a row for what he will be doing.

As for Larry, it will not happen. He doesn't have anybody left. Spithill is out, Slingsby is out, the team is scattered . Larry was never an advocate for foiling. It happened anyway and he realised you couldn't go back. IMO, there was more chance if it had been a cat.

Perhaps if GD had been more forthright about the future boat when both were in Bermuda then Larry would not have let people scatter to the four corners of the wind.

Truth is, despite LE’s outstretched hand to GD on the dock, GD brushed him off and IMO that made an already led-by-GD always-antagonistic situation even worse. Other AC35 participants may feel unwelcome too, GD had taken shots at every single one of them even including during previous cycles.

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44 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Perhaps if GD had been more forthright about the future boat when both were in Bermuda then Larry would not have let people scatter to the four corners of the wind.

Truth is, despite LE’s outstretched hand to GD on the dock, GD brushed him off and IMO that made an already led-by-GD always-antagonistic situation even worse. Other AC35 participants may feel unwelcome too, GD had taken shots at every single one of them even including during previous cycles.

It's hard to take this rubbish much longer. You don't seem to get it. Larry isn't interested and the only thing that would have kept him interested is to go with the London Agreement and the AC50's. It really is that simple. He would then have been bound to continue. Why would he want to begin all over again with  a new type of boat and with a defender who has an advantage over every other team (not complaining, just stating). Sticking with the AC50's would give Larry the biggest chance of regaining the cup but with a totally new rule, it becomes a lot more difficult. There has been absolutely nothing to suggest Larry is in any way interested and if he was, we would have seen some action by now because anybody not already setting up and maybe even beginning the design phase is behind the curve. He has no design team, no sailors and no plan in place. Compare that with either BAR or LR, both have designers engaged and sailors signed up. BAR even claimed to have done some analysis of the new design while we know LR has done so.

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Perhaps if GD had been more forthright about the future boat when both were in Bermuda then Larry would not have let people scatter to the four corners of the wind.

Truth is, despite LE’s outstretched hand to GD on the dock, GD brushed him off and IMO that made an already led-by-GD always-antagonistic situation even worse. Other AC35 participants may feel unwelcome too, GD had taken shots at every single one of them even including during previous cycles.

You need to dial this shit back Stinger.

Was I happy with the lack of graciousness that GD demonstrated post victory? No.

But Orifice acted like a bunch of total cunts for an extended period of time and so a few snubs by GD does not make them virginal again.

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^^ Shrug, you are posting conjecture too.

I think he could be enticed by the new boat, but he heard about it too late and didn’t care for the FU from GD so simply moved on. 

Good luck to BAR and LR..

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8 minutes ago, jaysper said:

You need to dial this shit back Stinger.

Was I happy with the lack of graciousness that GD demonstrated post victory? No.

But Orifice acted like a bunch of total cunts for an extended period of time and so a few snubs by GD does not make them virginal again.

A few snubs?? GD has a long history of attacking every other team. Past relationships probably do matter if you’re now trying to invite people to your home regatta - at great expense and possible rules-risk.

Hell, even Veitch broached that subject in his interview with BA, it was that obvious a question and concern even to him. Some relationships do just run their course eventually.

 

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5 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A few snubs?? GD has a long history of attacking every other team. Past relationships probably do matter if you’re now trying to invite people to your home regatta - at great expense and possible rules-risk.

Hell, even Veitch broached that subject in his interview with BA, it was that obvious a question and concern even to him. Some relationships do just run their course eventually.

 

Good fucking riddance! We don't want cheaters stinking up AC36.

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2 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A few snubs?? GD has a long history of attacking every other team. Past relationships probably do matter if you’re now trying to invite people to your home regatta - at great expense and possible rules-risk.

Hell, even Veitch broached that subject in his interview with BA, it was that obvious a question and concern even to him. Some relationships do just run their course eventually.

 

This is unfair - his relationship with the likes of BA and TT is the same as it is with his fellow team members - he calls a spade a spade, and a fucking ugly one if he thinks it is ugly.

His beef with BA and TT for example was specific to the London Agreement and the influence it had on their decisions post-signing. Outside of that he is as he is on any other topic. He didn't even turn on BA after the crash! Fucking iceman niceguy Barker gave BA more stick.

LE on the other hand wasn't just one incident, it was a fucking prolonged garotting that nearly killed ETNZ and GD. Why should GD accept his hand without even an apology included. Fuck that guy. "I tried to kill you, but you not only survived, but won so we can now be friends?" Fuck off.

In the words of Omar

 

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3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

 

Truth is, despite LE’s outstretched hand to GD on the dock, GD brushed him off

Oh for heavens sake, it was clear through AC35 that OR and ACEA were on a much-reduced budget, that LE was no longer committed to the game and obvious that if OR lost they were out.

As for outstretched hand, if you spend years poking someone in the eye with a sharp stick, unless you are dealing with a saint, that's going to have consequences. I don't think anyone would claim GD is saint-like.

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4 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

My guess is that Verdier is who has been collaborating with ETNZ’s Bernasconi on behalf of LR and is going to Luna Rossa as a part of the agreement between P$B and GD.

Verdier has been with ETNZ for a long time and has stated his intention to stay with them. An interesting guess of yours.

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Oh for heavens sake, it was clear through AC35 that OR and ACEA were on a much-reduced budget, that LE was no longer committed to the game and obvious that if OR lost they were out.

As for outstretched hand, if you spend years poking someone in the eye with a sharp stick, unless you are dealing with a saint, that's going to have consequences. I don't think anyone would claim GD is saint-like.

I wasn't going to bother so thanks dogwatch. 

I'm personally not enamored with GD but he's a fucking angel compared to Lazza.

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10 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

My guess is that Verdier is who has been collaborating with ETNZ’s Bernasconi on behalf of LR and is going to Luna Rossa as a part of the agreement between P$B and GD.

In your view of Bertelli, Shylock comes out as positively generous... what other pound of flesh has he extracted from poor GD?

ius primae noctis on 100 Kiwi maidens

- South Island becomes the Prada Kingdom

- former prime minister who likes canned spaghetti pizza to be drawn and quartered

- from now on, the All Blacks will dance the tarantella instead of the haka on pre-game

 

 

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16 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Yes, the crazy-arse factor must be enticing to AR but TT did also call for a reasonable-budget boat and spoke in support of the Framework’s ideas so I guess we’ll see. 

The guy who must be most enticed by this foiler craziness would surely have to be Larry. I wish he’d pull that trigger since passionate multi $B’s are exactly who this invitation is being delivered to and since LE got on board with and then delivered the impetus on foiling in the AC - with all the resulting, futuristic side-effects indirectly including now for this one.

 

15 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Perhaps if GD had been more forthright about the future boat when both were in Bermuda then Larry would not have let people scatter to the four corners of the wind.

Truth is, despite LE’s outstretched hand to GD on the dock, GD brushed him off and IMO that made an already led-by-GD always-antagonistic situation even worse. Other AC35 participants may feel unwelcome too, GD had taken shots at every single one of them even including during previous cycles.

 

14 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

A few snubs?? GD has a long history of attacking every other team. Past relationships probably do matter if you’re now trying to invite people to your home regatta - at great expense and possible rules-risk.

Hell, even Veitch broached that subject in his interview with BA, it was that obvious a question and concern even to him. Some relationships do just run their course eventually.

 

You were doing so much better than this lately, it almost seemed that most of the bitterness, the need for self-serving revisionism and the enabling of those bringing their unethical and unsporting 'win at any cost' practices into the AC  was out of your system.

Old habits die hard eh, just gotta :lol: anew at Larry's No.1 spin-boy

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^ Shrug, there’s plenty of history anyone can point to. GD took unnecessary shots at both JS and RC during the winner’s press conference, even. Sheesh...

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1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

^ Shrug, there’s plenty of history anyone can point to. GD took unnecessary shots at both JS and RC during the winner’s press conference, even. Sheesh...

And they both deserved everything they got... and more.

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3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

And they both deserved everything they got... and more.

Sure - Some think so but he got panned even in some NZ articles for it.

That's just the most recent example anyway. Guys like BA are rightly concerned about if the Lone Wolf continues to be so adversarial because as Cup holder now the situation is almost akin to having a wolf guarding the hen house.

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1 minute ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Sure - Some think so but he got panned even in some NZ articles for it.

That's just the most recent example anyway. Guys like BA are rightly concerned about if the Lone Wolf continues to be so adversarial because as Cup holder now the situation is almost akin to having a wolf guarding the hen house.

And it's now different? How exactly?

You aren't seriously suggesting GD should 'play nice' with the Challengers are you, Stinger?

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15 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Sure - Some think so but he got panned even in some NZ articles for it.

That's just the most recent example anyway. Guys like BA are rightly concerned about if the Lone Wolf continues to be so adversarial because as Cup holder now the situation is almost akin to having a wolf guarding the hen house.

Lets be clear though Stinger, people like me panned GD not because Lazza didn't deserve to get it from both barrels.

We panned GD because we would have preferred he rose above the wanker. Blake would have, unfortunately Dalts didn't.

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Consistent, but...

 

Close racing on day two for Land Rover BAR Academy

 

Land Rover BAR Academy had a tough day in Mexico for the second day of Act 8 of the Extreme Sailing Series 2017. With fickle winds across the race course Race Director, John Craig, opted for upwind starts and short four-leg races. This meant that the starts were absolutely critical as there was very little time for overtaking around the course. Land Rover BAR Academy struggled in the day's six races posting results of 7th, 5th, 7th, 7th, 7th and 7th. At the halfway point of the regatta, this leaves the young team in 6th place overall.

http://www.landroverbar.com/en/news/432_Close-racing-on-day-two-for-Land-Rover-BAR-Academy.html

m4152_crop169014_1024x576_proportional_15121212211CC4.jpg

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from a Simmer interview at http://www.landroverbar.com/en/news/434_Fifty-days-first-impressions.html

Finally, we’ve had an important few weeks with the announcement of the Protocol and boat concept, what are your thoughts so far and what is the biggest challenge that lies ahead?

(GS) The biggest challenge is the boat. What stands out from the class information we have received is that it’s a bold decision by Emirates Team New Zealand. It’s radical and ambitious and presents a huge challenge both at a sporting level and technical level. For sure it will be exciting, fast and edgy which is good for the Cup.

Currently it looks like the boat build costs, technical development and logistics are going to be extremely expensive but we are ready to take on both the financial, technical and sporting challenge.

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14 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

from a Simmer interview at http://www.landroverbar.com/en/news/434_Fifty-days-first-impressions.html

Finally, we’ve had an important few weeks with the announcement of the Protocol and boat concept, what are your thoughts so far and what is the biggest challenge that lies ahead?

(GS) The biggest challenge is the boat. What stands out from the class information we have received is that it’s a bold decision by Emirates Team New Zealand. It’s radical and ambitious and presents a huge challenge both at a sporting level and technical level. For sure it will be exciting, fast and edgy which is good for the Cup.

Currently it looks like the boat build costs, technical development and logistics are going to be extremely expensive but we are ready to take on both the financial, technical and sporting challenge.

 

We've had French to English translations and Italian to English translations, but this one needs a "Management Speak" (aka Bullshit) to English translation. I ran the text through my Bullshit to English app and got the following:

 

(GS) We've got no fucking idea (NFI) about the boat. What stands out from the class information we have received is that Emirates Team New Zealand has gone completely fucking nuts. They've produced something that looks like it was drawn on the back of a beer coaster after an all day drinking session. We have NFI how to design it and the sailors have NFI how to sail it.  Unless something changes soon the Cup is going to be a complete disaster.

Currently it looks like the boat build costs, technical development and logistics are going to be extremely expensive and we're not even close to having the finances to do this, so our team is completely fucked.

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Considering LRBAR was the best financed of the AC35 teams and there's been no sign that backing has gone away, a stupidly expensive new design arguably plays to the team's strengths.

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So what exactly are the BAR strengths?  Didn't see much evidence of any inspiration or innovation and the team line up hasn't really changed in any way to improve that.   Could say that they managed to waste the most money on the worst results of all the teams.  Be good to see that change, maybe Grant will bring something to the party.

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1 hour ago, GBH said:

So what exactly are the BAR strengths?  Didn't see much evidence of any inspiration or innovation and the team line up hasn't really changed in any way to improve that.   Could say that they managed to waste the most money on the worst results of all the teams.  Be good to see that change, maybe Grant will bring something to the party.

Hype, peerages, access to public funds, gifted land, red-tape shears, backing and technology transfer from 'the top British companies', quick-thinking shore team with airbags and a crane and least we forget F1, F1, F1!

*may not all have been advantageous ;)

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5 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

They did better than the HIYC challenge.

Only because they took the points from the 45 series which stopped them being first eliminated!

Have to say that like previous UK challenges it was woefully mismanaged at every level. 

Nav +1:)

 

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2 minutes ago, GBH said:

Only because they took the points from the 45 series which stopped them being first eliminated!

 

Is that so? So pub quiz. Name the HIYC skipper in AC35.

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All so woefully inaccurate. I've read this thread on and off for some time along with so many others but rarely "chime" in. It's far too evident the personal prejudices several "contributors" here try to establish as non fictional inside information with respect to an organisation that they have had zero first hand exposure to or genuine knowledge to draw from.

Have you paused to consider for a second that the serious "stake holders' may indeed have the inside track on trickle flow information from the new defenders. Coupled with the same disbelief of concept and uninformed opinions towards the new class rule that was seen at this point last cycle...

Word on the street is that those who've begun running simulations and modelling show that the concept is capable of what it says on the tin and that BAR are indeed in a financially more positive position than other syndicates at this point in the cycle. One can only hope that with their infrastructure, base, resource network and basic staffing already in place for a second cycle. Many of the initial distractions of AC35 will not have a contributing factor to the end result. 

It's all too easy (read easier) to bang on and on with your own manufactured negative propaganda than it is to better educate oneself on the facts that are readily available in the public domain should one simply look...

 

And commence trolling...

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I wasn't trying to single out LRBAR for criticism. The crazy proposal for the new boat is a leap into the unknown for all the teams - LRBAR included.

LRBAR is an established team full of smart people and Simmer's comments show they have no idea how to design and sail the new boat. In management speak "a huge challenge" = "an impossible task that I'm going to waste someone else's money trying to solve". LRBAR obviously hates the new boat, but the only alternative is to disband the team.

The conclusion is that the new boat is way too ambitious and unless something changes AC 36 runs the risk of being a complete disaster. 

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26 minutes ago, Fireball said:

I wasn't trying to single out LRBAR for criticism. The crazy proposal for the new boat is a leap into the unknown for all the teams - LRBAR included.

LRBAR is an established team full of smart people and Simmer's comments show they have no idea how to design and sail the new boat. In management speak "a huge challenge" = "an impossible task that I'm going to waste someone else's money trying to solve". LRBAR obviously hates the new boat, but the only alternative is to disband the team.

The conclusion is that the new boat is way too ambitious and unless something changes AC 36 runs the risk of being a complete disaster. 

ETNZ have already proven that they have the tools to design a foiling boat that works straight out of the box as they did with AC34 and AC35 .. AC36 will be no different. 

LRBAR for their first try used the old fashioned procedure of building lots of boats until they worked out the best setup.  They will not be permitted to use that method for AC36.

It is said that A Newey was involved last time and he is still using pencil and paper .. If LRBAR don't sort out how to design a foiling boat and accurately model it with a computer this time they will be even less successful in AC36 than they were in AC35.

It is true that G Simmer will raise their management skills but even if they are as good as Oracles it will not be good enough.

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2 hours ago, Terry Hollis said:

LRBAR for their first try used the old fashioned procedure of building lots of boats until they worked out the best setup.  They will not be permitted to use that method for AC36.

 

You can build as many boats as you like up to 12m. ETNZ did plenty of work with smaller test boats in AC34 and I suspect all serious teams will be building multiple 11.99M test beds.

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6 hours ago, Racing Fast said:

Word on the street is that those who've begun running simulations and modelling show that the concept is capable of what it says on the tin

What street is that? Sesame Street? On the streets I know, the view is that due to lack of information the only way to get the sims to work is to make huge assumptions and to ignore certain limitations.

It also ignores the question of how good these boats will be for close match racing.The word on my streets is that the racing will be anything but close.

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1 hour ago, Team_GBR said:

The word on my streets is that the racing will be anything but close.

What street is yours ? Sesame Street ? do they know the rule ?

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2 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

On the streets I know, the view is that due to lack of information the only way to get the sims to work is to make huge assumptions and to ignore certain limitations.

No need for sims initially. From my previous post in the Venue thread:

"Rather, reading the second para. of 11.2 - what testing is allowed, I'm fairly sure we're exactly where ETNZ was in the early phases of AC34, when they were exploring the full foiling quantum leap. As you'll recall, they carried out super-secret towed tests on a lake,  using a makeshift (or SL33?) platform.

The issue is the same now: foiling stability - and the investigating tool will be the same, a proforma hull at max. non-surrogate length (12 m),  mounting the foils mechanism*, a rudder on a gantry (again, same as for ETNZ's AC45 T !) duplicating the AC75 geometry, and suitable towing points. Simple, quick and cheap, really"

So, while I don't know if the boat will "work", I'm beginning to think Dalts and Dan may be right after all and development won't be particularly expensive. Straight, steel, machined foils - rather than curved, monolithic carbon ones - are a big part of the equation. Add a fixed shape (and perhaps stiffness) for the wing mast and the key is again control systems - just like in AC35

* or fixed foil "arms" until the (common) mechanism becomes available

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3 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

...The word on my streets is that the racing will be anything but close.

You live on Mount Crumpit, not on a normal street.

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I think we know racing will not be close. It never has been with a new boat and while modelling will raise everyone’s game, someone will have a 1% advantage leading to massive margins at the finish. 

The interest in AC36 will be in proving the concept and then we can have a tighter AC37 either going on with R2 of AC 75 MONOS or failing that back to AC50 CATS. 

ETNZ/Prada has presumably been designing their boat for a couple of years but Oracle had huge advantages in the past cycles and that was beatable. So who will have the advantage isn’t necessarily set in stone although it’s more likely to lie with the Kiwitalians. 

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9 hours ago, KingMonkey said:

I think we know racing will not be close. It never has been with a new boat and while modelling will raise everyone’s game, someone will have a 1% advantage leading to massive margins at the finish. 

The interest in AC36 will be in proving the concept and then we can have a tighter AC37 either going on with R2 of AC 75 MONOS or failing that back to AC50 CATS. 

ETNZ/Prada has presumably been designing their boat for a couple of years but Oracle had huge advantages in the past cycles and that was beatable. So who will have the advantage isn’t necessarily set in stone although it’s more likely to lie with the Kiwitalians. 

The AC72's were a new boat at the time, and the racing was pretty close in that match. Its always better when one team asserts its dominance, as it brings out the best in the other competitors to close the gap, as well as the best in the dominant team to maintain its place at the top. The only way you're going to get a chance of a completely level playing field is to have  a completely One design class, and the difference coming down to crew work. Even then, one team may still assert dominance, we've seen that in the Volvo with Mapfre. I think the fact that this is a completely new, and different, unique and revolutionary design puts everyone back on a somewhat level playing field, as much as it could ever be. 

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Yes the AC72s make an interesting case as there was so much further up the learning curve to go, hence the Great Leap Forward seen by Oracle. Whether that will happen again I don’t know but it was certainly fun to watch as a neutral. 

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3 hours ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ Odd - why not?

 

The Prot talks about Challs paying for events rather than venues paying for them and GD made an argument for why he wanted it to be that way, in the Clean interview. It may lead to better ACWS venues in better sailing conditions than in the past cycle, guess we’ll see.

BA does again emphasize the point that Challs, besides the recently in-bed CoR with their Defender friend, have no Prot-given input into any of that. They are even on the hook for apparently limitless ACWS cost-overruns beyond the $335K per-event entry fees. 

But like the article points out, attendance was good. Maybe GD and P$B will agree a Portsmouth ACWS event anyway... ? Out of their mutually shared deep love of Englishmen? ;D

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3 hours ago, Xlot said:

 

  ^ Odd - why not?

 

Not only odd,  it is also a big question mark for challengers, with no control on it:

         COR may require additional funds from each Challenger in the form of cash, a performance bond, or a letter of credit, for the purpose of ensuring Challengers' participation in the CSS. Those funds or financial instruments may be required at such time and in such amount as is determined by COR and approved by RNZYS.

  As well as the amounts referred to in Clauses 7.5 a) and 7.6 a) the Challengers shall share equally all further costs of the Preliminary Regattas, the CSS and other activities of the Challengers as a group associated with the challenge for the 36th America's Cup. Such costs may be offset from money raised from commercial activities.

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9 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

The Prot talks about Challs paying for events rather than venues paying for them and GD made an argument for why he wanted it to be that way, in the Clean interview. It may lead to better ACWS venues in better sailing conditions than in the past cycle, guess we’ll see.

 

Portsmouth provided 3 good racing days out of 4 in the previous cycle. There were joke venues but Portsmouth wasn't one of them.

However I'm not sure it would allow "stadium sailing" in JC75s as there are patches on the far side of the dredged channel in the previous ACWS race area with only 1m charted depth. Maybe OK at HW (average HW springs around 4.5m above datum). I'm not sure what the JC75s draw in Archimedean mode.

 

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On 28/11/2017 at 9:30 AM, Team_GBR said:

I don't think there is any hope of Artemis going ahead and that it is all a smokescreen. 2 things are against Artemis - budget and nationality rules. I think Percy is using the cover of Artemis to keep in touch while he gets his ducks in a row for what he will be doing.

As for Larry, it will not happen. He doesn't have anybody left. Spithill is out, Slingsby is out, the team is scattered . Larry was never an advocate for foiling. It happened anyway and he realised you couldn't go back. IMO, there was more chance if it had been a cat.

is Spithill out??

i know that Slingsby is trying for an aussie team, but odds are, if he doesn't make one he will be signed up with another challenge pretty quickly. but yeah, he's out hahaha

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4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Portsmouth provided 3 good racing days out of 4 in the previous cycle. There were joke venues but Portsmouth wasn't one of them.

However I'm not sure it would allow "stadium sailing" in JC75s as there are patches on the far side of the dredged channel in the previous ACWS race area with only 1m charted depth. Maybe OK at HW (average HW springs around 4.5m above datum). I'm not sure what the JC75s draw in Archimedean mode.

 

No worries...

_97529292_041229614.jpg

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26 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

For sure

Depends how adventurous Holroyd is prepared to be this time round. In previous cycles, his conservative mindset has been his downfall. Maybe he will be a little more adventurous now that he has a large and capable team around him.

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15 hours ago, sclarke said:

Depends how adventurous Holroyd is prepared to be this time round. In previous cycles, his conservative mindset has been his downfall. Maybe he will be a little more adventurous now that he has a large and capable team around him.

Trouble is, he's just one more technician in a team that has plenty of those. Capable yes, but  creative no.  But until the rules come out who knows how much freedom of thought is going to be allowed.  If most of the main areas are delineated then the design program turns into a series of technical problems to solve.

My guess is that TNZ will try to cut down the windows of opportunity to avoid being potentially outsmarted in the same way that they totally outsmarted everyone last time around.

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17 hours ago, sclarke said:

Depends how adventurous Holroyd is prepared to be this time round. In previous cycles, his conservative mindset has been his downfall. Maybe he will be a little more adventurous now that he has a large and capable team around him.

Meh, I think he will be adventurous.... heck he basically pioneered foiling in the AC.

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17 hours ago, GBH said:

Trouble is, he's just one more technician in a team that has plenty of those. Capable yes, but  creative no.  But until the rules come out who knows how much freedom of thought is going to be allowed.  If most of the main areas are delineated then the design program turns into a series of technical problems to solve.

My guess is that TNZ will try to cut down the windows of opportunity to avoid being potentially outsmarted in the same way that they totally outsmarted everyone last time around.

if NZ try that, how do you think they would win?

as good as Peter Burling is, there are better match racers out there and there will definitely be teams spending more money than them

if TNZ cant be more creative than the others, then how will they hold onto it

unless they make some loopholes that only they know about

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5 hours ago, inebriated said:

unless they make some loopholes that only they know about

Thats the one - it's what the rules don't say that will be interesting.  And there lies the freedom to think outside and around what is the notional box.   Hasn't ever been a yachting rule in any discipline that hasn't got some wiggle room, intentional or otherwise, and then the universal rule of unintended consequences takes a hand!

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2 hours ago, GBH said:

Thats the one - it's what the rules don't say that will be interesting.  And there lies the freedom to think outside and around what is the notional box.   Hasn't ever been a yachting rule in any discipline that hasn't got some wiggle room, intentional or otherwise, and then the universal rule of unintended consequences takes a hand!

ahhh

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Former McLaren boss Whitmarsh takes on new F1 role

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-motor-f1-whitmarsh/former-mclaren-boss-whitmarsh-takes-on-new-f1-role-idUSKBN1F52N0

... After leaving Formula One, where he had also been chairman of the now-defunct teams' association FOTA, Whitmarsh became chief executive of Olympic yachtsman Ben Ainslie's America's Cup challenge in 2015.

He was replaced in that role last November, taking an advisory position instead.

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at https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/business/bar-launch-new-venture-to-design-and-manufacture-rigging-1-8337769

THE team behind Ben Ainslie Racing (BAR) have launched a new business venture.

BAR Technologies have announced the start of BAR Rigging which will look to offer high-performance cutting-edge rigging techniques, materials and practices.

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