Barnyb

Team UK

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6 minutes ago, Stingray~~ said:

^ Pretty cool

 

Still pretty depressed I'd say - for picking the losing faction in ETNZ ...

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54 minutes ago, Xlot said:

Still pretty depressed I'd say - for picking the losing faction in ETNZ ...

Hard to say why he left but it could be that SBTJ simply offered much better pay. That, or Bernasconi pressed for and won Nick’s spot?

Regardless, I like both those guys. This vid isn’t as slick as the ‘Foils’ one NH did for SBTJ but, credit to him and to the BAR guy, it’s slick enough - as was the recent one with Simmer also musing about the JC75. 

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1 hour ago, Xlot said:

Still pretty depressed I'd say - for picking the losing faction in ETNZ ...

Pretty sure his bank account is the winning faction. ^_^

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at https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/other-sports/101327764/british-sailor-sir-ben-ainslie-not-resting-in-pursuit-of-americas-cup

Sir Ben Ainslie isn't taking any time off from his pursuit of sailing's greatest prize.

The British sailing star is back in San Diego for the second time in four months, this time with top crew members to begin a new season of sailing to help stay fresh in the long, somewhat uncertain buildup toward the 2021 America's Cup.

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6 hours ago, Stingray~~ said:

 

Great preview for whats in store in the Americas Cup. This is sailing! 

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^ I love the foiling cats, but goddamn - if they're going back to monos, why wouldn't they just build 75' super TP52s with fully retractable reaching foils?

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2 hours ago, sclarke said:

Great preview for whats in store in the Americas Cup. This is sailing! 

WTF are you on about? The AC will be nothing like that. If that is what you like and think that the AC should be like, why aren't you ripping into ETNZ for what they are proposing?

Think about what has been proposed. They are going to have foiling boats that handle unlike anything we have ever seen before and which they claim will be as fast or faster than the last AC. You do realise that once they get over a certain speed, which will be in everything but the lightest winds, there will be no kites. It will be just like last time - a mainsail and a jib, on all points of sailing. Being a new class, there will be significant differences in speed, just like last time. Unless they have some sort of power source, most of the crew will be grinding in order to trim the sails, tip the outrigger arms and control the foils.

If you think it is going to be anything like the TP52's, you don't understand sailing at all. While there are still a lot of details we don't know, the one thing that is certain is that these boats will be unlike anything we have seen before.

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5 hours ago, Team_GBR said:

WTF are you on about? The AC will be nothing like that. If that is what you like and think that the AC should be like, why aren't you ripping into ETNZ for what they are proposing?

Think about what has been proposed. They are going to have foiling boats that handle unlike anything we have ever seen before and which they claim will be as fast or faster than the last AC. You do realise that once they get over a certain speed, which will be in everything but the lightest winds, there will be no kites. It will be just like last time - a mainsail and a jib, on all points of sailing. Being a new class, there will be significant differences in speed, just like last time. Unless they have some sort of power source, most of the crew will be grinding in order to trim the sails, tip the outrigger arms and control the foils.

If you think it is going to be anything like the TP52's, you don't understand sailing at all. While there are still a lot of details we don't know, the one thing that is certain is that these boats will be unlike anything we have seen before.

yeah, it's funny watching some of the diehard ETNZ sailors pine for traditional sailing and then suck the dick of Dalton when this new concept comes around

here is just a rare specimine of someone who hasn't realised that he can't do both at the same time hahaha

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7 hours ago, inebriated said:

yeah, it's funny watching some of the diehard ETNZ sailors pine for traditional sailing and then suck the dick of Dalton when this new concept comes around

here is just a rare specimine of someone who hasn't realised that he can't do both at the same time hahaha

Big boats (larger than 50 feet), with full crews racing a boat with one hull with traditional soft sail configurations. This is closer to round the cans Wednesday night racing than 50 foot foiling cats with bikes and x-box controllers will ever be. Foiling or not, at least (at this stage anyway) ETNZ are committed to focusing on a more traditional AC, more traditional than it has been for the last 3 abominations anyway. 

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24 minutes ago, sclarke said:

ETNZ are committed to focusing on a more traditional AC, more traditional than it has been for the last 3 abominations anyway. 

Ah ah, amazing how a fan can be delusional !

 

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12 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

Ah ah, amazing how a fan can be delusional !

 

You're absolutely right! It does amaze me how delusional you are!

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54 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Big boats (larger than 50 feet), with massive lithium battery packs and motors racing with no hull touching the water thanks to giant articulated spider arms with foil pods plus a radical new 'soft wing' with NO traditional soft sail configurations since they will be apparent wind machines just like the last three cups. This is closer to Star Wars than 50 foot foiling cats (even WITH bikes and x-box controllers introduced by the same ETNZ that now wants something 'traditional') will ever be. Foiling or not, at least (at this stage anyway) ETNZ are committed to pretending to create more traditional AC because that's what the Italians want.

FIFY.  Having said that, I'm looking forward to seeing the new boats!

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2 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

FIFY.  Having said that, I'm looking forward to seeing the new boats!

Haha The BOR90 had an engine (Yes, Alinghi introduced them, but that doesn't change the fact that it still had an engine) Yes, it foils, but as ETNZ have proved to continuously be the only team that innovates in the Americas Cup, it shouldn't surprise anyone that only they have managed to come up with a design which incorporates the leading edge of foiling technology and innovation, as well as keeping with a somewhat traditional approach. No other team has managed to develop a reputation of innovation like ETNZ has. In terms of ETNZ introducing the X-Box controller and bikes in Bermuda, which was necessary to beat the likes of Oracle, they also have banned the bikes, and have taken a step away from the automated approach they developed for the Cats, which arguably has effectively nullified any advantage in that area they may have gained and has put all teams on a level playing field. 

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^ You can't be simultaneously for AND against motors/stored energy in the AC. If it's an issue, it doesn't magically become 'ok' just because it's ETNZ that's doing it now. 

And Artemis could very likely have beaten OR without either X-box controllers or bikes.

And where have they 'taken a step away from the automated approach' in the new rules? We're talking powered foils, and huge demands for computer flight control since this new design will have just 2 foils in the water at speed plus a much less stable rig.

Finally, as far as a 'level playing field', you're dreaming - this is an entirely new, radical and untested technology, with a huge advantage going to the inventors unless - and I wouldn't completely rule this out - a challenger comes up with a solution ETNZ didn't think of when they were writing the rule. 

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43 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ You can't be simultaneously for AND against motors/stored energy in the AC. If it's an issue, it doesn't magically become 'ok' just because it's ETNZ that's doing it now. 

And Artemis could very likely have beaten OR without either X-box controllers or bikes.

And where have they 'taken a step away from the automated approach' in the new rules? We're talking powered foils, and huge demands for computer flight control since this new design will have just 2 foils in the water at speed plus a much less stable rig.

Finally, as far as a 'level playing field', you're dreaming - this is an entirely new, radical and untested technology, with a huge advantage going to the inventors unless - and I wouldn't completely rule this out - a challenger comes up with a solution ETNZ didn't think of when they were writing the rule. 

I never said I was against stored energy/ engines. In fact I'm all for it, as long as it is only for the foil control systems. I would rather see the boats consistently flying while crew focus on tactics and trimming functions. Every other function (e.g trimming sails, hydraulic functions) should be manually controlled. Boats like Rambler 88, Wild Oats XI, Speedboat/ Perpetual Loyal/ Infotrack and even Comanche when configured for it, all use stored energy/ engines. It does not make the racing any less exciting. The entirely new, radical and untested aspect is what makes this cycle as level a playing field as it could ever be. 

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44 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The entirely new, radical and untested aspect is what makes this cycle as level a playing field as it could ever be. 

So that means that AC34 was also as level a playing field as it could ever have been, maybe even AC35. As has been pointed out above, when there is a new rule written by the defender, it gives them a huge advantage. In this case, to write a rule for these boats, you need to run a lot of sims to understand what the variables are and the possibilities with the rules. That puts the rule writers way ahead of everybody else. While I dislike OR, at least they put the task of writing the AC72 rule out to a 3rd party who wasn't then tied into the team. This was the fairest thing I have seen in the AC, so fair that they couldn't and didn't try to stop the rule writers from joining another team.

What has been shown time and again is that new, radical and untested in the AC has almost always led to significant differences between the performance of teams making the racing boring. The only reason that AC34 was exciting was that OR hadn't learnt how to get the best out of their boat when the racing begun. Once they were up to speed, there was a boring inevitability about the racing and all that made it exciting was the chance something might go wrong.

All of this is a distraction as you try to cover up your original stupid comment. The new AC boats and their racing will be nothing like the TP52's and to think that it will shows a complete lack of understanding of what is going on.

 

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28 minutes ago, Team_GBR said:

So that means that AC34 was also as level a playing field as it could ever have been, maybe even AC35. As has been pointed out above, when there is a new rule written by the defender, it gives them a huge advantage. In this case, to write a rule for these boats, you need to run a lot of sims to understand what the variables are and the possibilities with the rules. That puts the rule writers way ahead of everybody else. While I dislike OR, at least they put the task of writing the AC72 rule out to a 3rd party who wasn't then tied into the team. This was the fairest thing I have seen in the AC, so fair that they couldn't and didn't try to stop the rule writers from joining another team.

What has been shown time and again is that new, radical and untested in the AC has almost always led to significant differences between the performance of teams making the racing boring. The only reason that AC34 was exciting was that OR hadn't learnt how to get the best out of their boat when the racing begun. Once they were up to speed, there was a boring inevitability about the racing and all that made it exciting was the chance something might go wrong.

All of this is a distraction as you try to cover up your original stupid comment. The new AC boats and their racing will be nothing like the TP52's and to think that it will shows a complete lack of understanding of what is going on.

 

The difference being that Oracle chose a class of boat similar to what they had previously designed/ constructed and sailed in An Americas Cup previously. Oracle chose a multihull with a wing sail, so they already had gained a wealth of knowledge and data which no one else except Alinghi had(but they did not use a wing sail). That was the design advantage Oracle had. It was an obvious advantage. They knew how to design a multihull, they had tested a wingsailed multihull, and raced a wing sailed multihull, so they knew what worked and what didn't. Their crew and skipper were experienced in how to handle a wing sailed multihull. No other team had that knowledge, not even ETNZ. Oracle had a huge head start simply because they had done it before. Just because they did not know how to capitalise on that advantage does not mean it wasn't an advantage. NO ONE has successfully designed, constructed or sailed, let alone raced, a foiling monohull around a set course before. 

Like I said, it is closer to real sailing than foiling 50 foot, wing sailed catamarans with bikes and x-box controllers will ever be. Yes computers and lithium batteries may control fly height, but crews will ultimately be responsible for the majority of other functions, including grinders which will be used predominantly for trimming functions instead of oil pumps.

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Just now, Stingray~ said:

A touch of intrigue near the end

 

interesting that they are looking at anhedral main foils for the 75, i would've thought that they would be going for as stable as possible to start with hahaha

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4 hours ago, inebriated said:

interesting that they are looking at anhedral main foils for the 75, i would've thought that they would be going for as stable as possible to start with hahaha

Due to the extreme range of available cant angles, dihedral/anhedral are not really a consideration in the normal sense (vis a vis stability). The optimum shape for what they are doing would be a curved wing (downward tips) just like the high performance kite wings - and that is what the ETNZ concept video shows) but this may not be possible because there will be control surfaces on the trailing edge, so for the moment there are two straight wing sections. The angle is downward because (so far) that produces the most efficient (best L/D) mixture of vertical lift and leeway resistance, since both wing sections are operating in relatively clean, undisturbed water.

The downward concave wing also facilitates early take off - at low (sub-foiling) speeds, that geometry redirects water downward more efficiently, just like concave on a surf board.

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^ Nein, das ist nicht richtig! - they are dumping the Indian brand and hitching up the Germans - you heard it here first....

 

merc-logo.gif

 

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^ If true, that would certainly liven things up technology wise. Give BA the right boat, and all bets are off, ETNZ's head start on development notwithstanding.

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2 hours ago, surfsailor said:

Due to the extreme range of available cant angles, dihedral/anhedral are not really a consideration in the normal sense (vis a vis stability). The optimum shape for what they are doing would be a curved wing (downward tips) just like the high performance kite wings - and that is what the ETNZ concept video shows) but this may not be possible because there will be control surfaces on the trailing edge, so for the moment there are two straight wing sections. The angle is downward because (so far) that produces the most efficient (best L/D) mixture of vertical lift and leeway resistance, since both wing sections are operating in relatively clean, undisturbed water.

The downward concave wing also facilitates early take off - at low (sub-foiling) speeds, that geometry redirects water downward more efficiently, just like concave on a surf board.

As an alternative to inboard winglets hypothesized by Jean Sans' 2nd write-up?

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27 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ If true, that would certainly liven things up technology wise. Give BA the right boat, and all bets are off, ETNZ's head start on development notwithstanding.

BA? ....who hasn't shown great management skill and crashes when he drives?

You have to earn the boat through great design and building skill and knowing what to concentrate on - no Uncle Larry handing them out to Poodles this time

Are you supporting a team - I see you are getting the excuses in early!?

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^ Hahahaha - underestimate BA at your peril, mate. Do I need to repost the videos from 2013?

I do find your contention that 'uncle Larry' supplied all the great design, building skill and development objectives in AC34 interesting - are you sure you've really thought this through?

LOL

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1 hour ago, surfsailor said:

^ If true, that would certainly liven things up technology wise. Give BA the right boat, and all bets are off, ETNZ's head start on development notwithstanding.

Certainly better than mucho-hyped Airbus "contribution" to the cheaters' futile effort in AC35 :lol:.

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Yep - they (and everybody else) should've worked on a way to circumvent the intent of the rule and use computer-driven flight control, like ETNZ did.

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10 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Yep - they (and everybody else) should've worked on a way to circumvent the intent of the rule and use computer-driven flight control, like ETNZ did.

Maybe they should have thrown Spithill as far as they could - and then head in the opposite direction!!

5947012573e0c_OR-XEROX700m.thumb.JPG.d9727cd5baa794773089d9268dcffdc6.JPG

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2 hours ago, nav said:

^ Owwww, that sounds a bit "sore loser'ish"

Surely not!?

Just the facts. Or did you think the rule was intended to encourage computer flight control?

LOL

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1 hour ago, surfsailor said:

Just the facts. Or did you think the rule was intended to encourage computer flight control?

LOL

ROFL

It was intended to ensure the optimum human controlled flying, obviously with feedback from technology - just like waypoints, speed, VMG, lay-lines, DTM, apparent wind etc - are all provided by computer displays onboard - that the other teams didn't configure their crew to ensure that the one feedback loop that would benefit most from dedicated observation and adjustment was optimised, is entirely their own fault, and is nothing to do with an implication of not going with any 'spirit' of any rule, in essence a veiled accusation of cheating on your part...

sorry who's the bitter one?

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Who’s bitter - ETNZ did a great job, and won - just like Oracle did in 2013.

But you’re on crack if you think computer driven flight control - with or without the human link that made ETNZ’s system within the rules - was the intent of that rule.

 

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11 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Who’s bitter - ETNZ did a great job, and won - just like Oracle did in 2013.

But you’re on crack if you think computer driven flight control - with or without the human link that made ETNZ’s system within the rules - was the intent of that rule.

 

Who's intentions where those? The defender? Fuck their intentions - what does the rule actually permit?

If they can't see the difference then no wonder they couldn't hold onto the cup, and if you can't see the difference no wonder you feel so aggrieved by ETNZ comeback -

Writing a class rule is half (or more?) of the game in AC...

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Sure. So can I assume moving forward that we won’t hear any more whingeing about ‘the spirit of the AC’?!

Cause that would be awesome, especially in the context of the 75’ flying monkeys.

;)

PS - maybe it’s time to stop polluting the BAR thread with partisan ETNZ whingeing - just throwing that out there.

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7 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Sure. So can I assume moving forward that we won’t hear any more whingeing about ‘the spirit of the AC’?!

Cause that would be awesome, especially in the context of the 75’ flying monkeys.

;)

PS - maybe it’s time to stop polluting the BAR thread with partisan ETNZ whingeing - just throwing that out there.

You choose to conflate the spirit of one of the oldest sporting spectacles, with the specific rules that govern it? Wow... no wonder you struggle so much around here...

On your second point I totally agree! So if you want to take your partisan whingeing about ETNZ (your post #4342 to which I simply replied explaining why your whinge was unfounded) to another thread that would be a good thing... perhaps to the "I Sent Laird Hamilton A Cup Of My Blood" thread

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^ You might want to look at the post I was responding to, and apply your ‘critical thinking skills’, such as they are. Good luck!

Sorry you’re still seething about Laird, but I’m sure that too will pass within a decade or so.

 

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1 minute ago, surfsailor said:

I’m sure that too will pass within a decade or so.

 

Like a hard little turd... I look forward to pushing out the diamond that it will be by then... in the meantime enjoy the fish they were caught today(ish)!

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7 hours ago, Xlot said:

As an alternative to inboard winglets hypothesized by Jean Sans' 2nd write-up?

I saw that - I think that was more about preventing ventilation coming down the spider legs, but I may have that wrong. 

There will definitely be some wild new tech.

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Just now, rh2600 said:

Who's intentions where those? The defender? Fuck their intentions - what does the rule actually permit?

If they can't see the difference then no wonder they couldn't hold onto the cup, and if you can't see the difference no wonder you feel so aggrieved by ETNZ comeback -

Writing a class rule is half (or more?) of the game in AC...

i sure didn't see any comeback hahaha

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2 minutes ago, inebriated said:

i sure didn't see any comeback hahaha

Yeah we know... you've already told us you never watched AC35 or any other previous ACs for that matter...hilarious!

Have the Canadian Salmon Roe - it's positively effervescent!

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Just now, rh2600 said:

Yeah we know... you've already told us you never watched AC35 or any other previous ACs for that matter...hilarious!

Have the Canadian Salmon Roe - it's positively effervescent!

didn't say shit about not watching ac35 hahaha

keep up the good work tinfoilboi

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3 hours ago, inebriated said:

didn't say shit about not watching ac35 hahaha

keep up the good work tinfoilboi

I had the displeasure of reading some of your thread history to discover that yes indeed - you actually said you missed your precious AC34 (that you claim to know so much about) not AC35. I just assumed you also didn't watch any AC35 because you didn't realise that ETNZ didn't contest the starts, and you thought that the grinders were pulling rope.. to name just a few laughably inept moments you've shared on the topic to date... evidence that you are either genuinely visually impaired, or have the TV observation skills of a dead dingo's dick.

I also learned that beyond the fact you seem to finish just about every sentence in your posts with "hahaha" (always just three and always together at the end of some inane prepubescent spurt from your pie-hole irrespective of whether it was a funny comment or a question) you also do something else very, very telling...

You spell Aussie as Aussy - which can't be an autocorrect or a typo as the y isn't near the i or the e... no fair dinkum Australian would do that - which means despite your best efforts of impersonating the most inbred munter from Blacktown you are in fact a fraud, troll and most likely just that turd-nugget A4E trying to sneak back into the bar! It fits too because you both of the same idiot ramblings of a retarded bogan on ketamine...

But It *is* nice to know that after years of loneliness you and surfsailor have been able to connect over the post-like button on a sailing forum - that shit is *deep* friendship... like lending jackets kinda deep...so there's that... bless :-)

I *love* the tinfoil! So thanks!

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1 minute ago, rh2600 said:

I had the displeasure of reading some of your thread history to discover that yes indeed - you actually said you missed your precious AC34 (that you claim to know so much about) not AC35. I just assumed you also didn't watch any AC35 because you didn't realise that ETNZ didn't contest the starts, and you thought that the grinders were pulling rope.. to name just a few laughably inept moments you've shared on the topic to date... evidence that you are either genuinely visually impaired, or have the TV observation skills of a dead dingo's dick.

I also learned that beyond the fact you seem to finish just about every sentence in your posts with "hahaha" (always just three and always together at the end of some inane prepubescent spurt from your pie-hole irrespective of whether it was a funny comment or a question) you also do something else very, very telling...

You spell Aussie as Aussy - which can't be an autocorrect or a typo as the y isn't near the i or the e... no fair dinkum Australian would do that - which means despite your best efforts of impersonating the most inbred munter from Blacktown you are in fact a fraud, troll and most likely just that turd-nugget A4E trying to sneak back into the bar! It fits too because you both of the same idiot ramblings of a retarded bogan on ketamine...

But It *is* nice to know that after years of loneliness you and surfsailor have been able to connect over the post-like button on a sailing forum - that shit is *deep* friendship... like lending jackets kinda deep...so there's that... bless :-)

I *love* the tinfoil! So thanks!

Ok then

keep thinking those fantasies champ

i am not in fact A4E, i will publicly say that i think alinghi are dogs that tied to blatantly go against the DOG

i am in fact Australian, and i can tell you this much, we don't care however the fuck "aussy" or "aussie" is spelt, and to be honest, not that many people care that much about the AC, mainly because it's always a skipper of australia that wins it. Anyway, NZ is basically part of Australia, i mean, if tazzie is then sure.

i'm not gonna lie, i'm never going through you post history though, i'm sure that shit will find a way to make autism contagious

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On 23/02/2018 at 6:18 PM, Stingray~ said:

2ABB7DA0-7E31-419C-A08F-235A96F5FBE9.thumb.jpeg.84f619f89575209033ca89f7e10cf152.jpeg

Nice catch.

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^

Good piece though it ignores the elephant in the room, which is the extreme cost of an AC36 campaign and the consequent dearth of entries. And has LRBAR actually entered and if not, why not?

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2 hours ago, dogwatch said:

^

Good piece though it ignores the elephant in the room, which is the extreme cost of an AC36 campaign and the consequent dearth of entries. And has LRBAR actually entered and if not, why not?

There won't be a lot or entries based on how insane these new boats are, but I do think BAR will be one of them.

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Yes I think LRBAR will be one of them too. There seem to be indications from both TE and GD that they haven't formally entered and it would be interesting to know if this is true and if it is, what they hope to gain by delaying. Not that TE would necessarily know but there was a hint of that.

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14 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

BA on BBC Radio, chat goes for 5 minutes starting at 02:20:00 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09sm8mx

Great find! Sounds pretty emphatic that they are back. 

Also interesting to hear discussion on engineering opportunities for new class and how engaging younger generation of sailors and engineers is a key driver for LRBAR - having a new class certainly helps!

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On 2/27/2018 at 10:54 PM, jaysper said:

There won't be a lot or entries based on how insane these new boats are, but I do think BAR will be one of them.

For sure - they’re all in. Sounds like they’re looking beyond the usual suspects for design talent, too. 

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^

He has really come on as a communicator and a public face for the sport. Impressive.

 

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

^

He has really come on as a communicator and a public face for the sport. Impressive.

 

Yep, he really does come across well on TV.

I still think Benny is a bit of a dick, but I do wish Dalts had this skill. Mind you I think Dalts is a bit of a dick too.

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Unfortunately anyone who dedicates their life single-mindedly to something as trivial as winning races is likely to be a bit of a dick.

But the communication on TV didn't come naturally to BA, that's obvious from early interviews.  The same goes for Shirley Robertson who I have met a few times over the years. They have both really worked on developing that craft, which I suspect at times must have been pretty painful. Good on them.

 

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17 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Unfortunately anyone who dedicates their life single-mindedly to something as trivial as winning races is likely to be a bit of a dick.

But the communication on TV didn't come naturally to BA, that's obvious from early interviews.  The same goes for Shirley Robertson who I have met a few times over the years. They have both really worked on developing that craft, which I suspect at times must have been pretty painful. Good on them.

 

To be fair, even though Dalts doesn't come across as articulate as Ben he is still articulate enough. 

My problem is a total lack of grace. You can hate someone's guts all you want, but once the camera starts rolling you bite your lip and shut the fuck up.

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19 hours ago, jaysper said:

 

My problem is a total lack of grace. You can hate someone's guts all you want, but once the camera starts rolling you bite your lip and shut the fuck up.

Do I have it correct you're referring to one instance. Again.

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5 hours ago, Meatbomb said:

Do I have it correct you're referring to one instance. Again.

Actually Dalts have shown a lack of grace on a good number of occasions. However the two that most obviously spring to mind are post victory AC35 plus when he publicly put the boot into the designer of Camper  (etnzs VOR entry) when the pace of the boat was found wanting.

I think anyone who suggests that Dalts is a gracious individual is being pretty disingenuous. 

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Well goodness gracious!  Why not just repeat all the WCM talking points Jaysper?

I mean we have enough OTUSA orphans already alternating between wild conspiracies, desperately defending their own poor record and general whining.

Doubt GD is too worried about whether he comes across a 'gracious' . Straight talking more like and with little enough to be gracious about anyway a lot of the time, representing a team painted into a corner as they so often have been. Fighting your corner, it's called.

If you prefer a, silver spoon sucking, semi-royal, press-beating, public funds spending, 4 non-surrogate building, 5th place getter - well you know which team to support.

Otherwise show a little graciousness yourself, Kiwis may not be too sophisticated, or used to dissembling and being smarmy - but they know how to do sport.

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16 hours ago, jaysper said:

Actually Dalts have shown a lack of grace on a good number of occasions. However the two that most obviously spring to mind are post victory AC35 plus when he publicly put the boot into the designer of Camper  (etnzs VOR entry) when the pace of the boat was found wanting.

I think anyone who suggests that Dalts is a gracious individual is being pretty disingenuous. 

A "Lack of grace"? What does that mean? Post victory AC35? I remember when after AC34, Oracle members Jimmy Spithill and Russell Coutts came out on NZ Television and did interviews which slammed Grant Dalton for being incompetent if he couldn't put together a challenge for AC35 (At that time ETNZ weren't sure whether they had the budget to continue or not) they said he should "step aside and let someone else take over if he couldn't put together a challenge" (At that time there was rumours of Brad Butterworth being interested in taking over ETNZ if Dalton was willing to step aside) Then Dalton did a deal with Harvey Schiller to host the qualifying regatta in Auckland which was signed by the then Americas Cup commissioner, but then pulled out from under them for no good reason, other than "the teams didn't want to do it" effectively cutting off any government funding ETNZ may have received. It should be noted, not long after this happened, ETNZ applied to the Court of Arbitration of Sport with a complaint of breach of agreement, which forced ACEA (Allegedly) to pay financial compensation.  Schiller was forced to fall on his sword and step down as Commissioner for AC35. The whole process was then kept quiet in accordance with the so-called "Dalton Clause". Then once the whole Dean Barker saga ended, and Barker had gone to Team Japan, the photo came out on the Oracle FB page of Jimmy and Dean side by side, with a caption of #letsgetDalton, implying Japan and Oracle were working not to only win the Cup, but prevent ETNZ from winning it as well. Through all of this, he still won, so I'm sure he can be excused for not being "gracious" to a team who tried every underhanded tactic to end his campaign.

 

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^ Whoa - the pro ETNZ butthurt about 2013 is strong with this one. Nothing wrong with that - it’s only been five years, and I understand you’ve only managed to reach the first stage of grief (denial) in that time. But - since this is the BAR thread, and BAR is going to be active in AC34 - would it be too much to ask that you take the whingeing over to the other threads you’ve already polluted: OR, Australia, What would foiling monohulls look like, etc? Or even better yet, post stuff about ETNZ in the ETNZ thread?

Thanks in advance. 

 

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51 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

^ Whoa - the pro ETNZ butthurt about 2013 is strong with this one. Nothing wrong with that - it’s only been five years, and I understand you’ve only managed to reach the first stage of grief (denial) in that time. But - since this is the BAR thread, and BAR is going to be active in AC34 - would it be too much to ask that you take the whingeing over to the other threads you’ve already polluted: OR, Australia, What would foiling monohulls look like, etc? Or even better yet, post stuff about ETNZ in the ETNZ thread?

Thanks in advance. 

 

Surfsailor, I put you on ignore, but I thought you might have at least something half intelligent which is why I (stupidly) opted to look at your comment, but sadly nope, still your stupid 3 year old toddler comments. Jesus mate, my 1 year old is more intelligent than you, So back on ignore you go...

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^ Sure. Seriously - you guys sound like Trump voters, who still spend 95% of their waking hours spewing disingenuous BS about Obama, years later.

Your team won - get over it.

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11 minutes ago, surfsailor said:

Your team won - get over it.

We will get over it. In 2021 when we'll be celebrating the successful defense.

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7 hours ago, nav said:

Kiwis may not be too sophisticated, or used to dissembling and being smarmy - but they know how to do sport.

When it comes to GD and other leadership at ETNZ, for many keen observers of that history it is about ~how~ they ‘do sport’ that is the problem. 

A lot of it includes overt aggression, nasty vindictiveness, and direct accusations of often-times bizarre cheating conspiracy theories repeated ad nauseuam by the likes of team-Koolaid drinker Sclarke. 

No other recent AC team has seen it necessary to play it that way. Is it a ‘cultural’ thing? A purely GD thing?

The very few teams brave enough to head to AC36 are in for a rough ride - including the NYYC entry BMQR - especially so if the to-be-labeled ‘National traitor’ DB is at the helm. Exhibit A is the disgusting, frothing-at-the-mouth Blackhearts campaign of 2003, one that included even death threats! One where NZ journo’s even spread the rumor that Alinghi had surreptitiously created those death threats, in their attempt to divert the guilt to Alinghi!

Where the F else in the world does the AC get played in that dirty a way? 

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1 hour ago, Stingray~ said:

When it comes to GD and other leadership at ETNZ, for many keen observers of that history it is about ~how~ they ‘do sport’ that is the problem. 

Is it? How is it a problem? Is defending yourself and your team not ok in sport? Or must everyone just bend over and take it no matter what the consequence? Maybe if Larry had've bent over and taken it from Ernie, the AC may be in better shape than it is right now.

A lot of it includes overt aggression, nasty vindictiveness, and direct accusations of often-times bizarre cheating conspiracy theories repeated ad nauseuam by the likes of team-Koolaid drinker Sclarke.

The only "Koolaid drinker" here is you, drinking the Larry Koolaid, when he's the reason the AC is in the shape its in! At least Ernie can say he had a much better event in Valencia than Larry's ever been able to put on.

No other recent AC team has seen it necessary to play it that way. Is it a ‘cultural’ thing? A purely GD thing?

You're kidding! Dennis Connor anyone? Russell Coutts anyone? Jimmy Spithill anyone? Oh no thats right, thats just his schtick, its not who he really is, so its ok cos its just his banter. The Americas Cup is full of nasty vindictiveness and direct accusations of cheating, even from the competitors. 

The very few teams brave enough to head to AC36 are in for a rough ride - including the NYYC entry BMQR - especially so if the to-be-labeled ‘National traitor’ DB is at the helm. Exhibit A is the disgusting, frothing-at-the-mouth Blackhearts campaign of 2003, one that included even death threats! One where NZ journo’s even spread the rumor that Alinghi had surreptitiously created those death threats, in their attempt to divert the guilt to Alinghi!

The Blackheart campaign was an embarrassment! I don't support or condone anything they did. Bunch of idiots who took it way too far!

Where the F else in the world does the AC get played in that dirty a way? 

It was played that way in 2010. But that's okay because the boats looked cool right?

Its funny when it was Larry fighting the good fight against Ernie, for the good of everyone, all the competitors, it was all good. He was defending the world from the evil Ernie. Then GD does exactly the same thing for his own team, and many others who agreed with him, and he's nasty and vindictive, he's Grumpy Grant with Litigious ETNZ team. The Litigation started from Oracle when they realised they were never going to win a challenger series against such a high standard of teams in Monohulls, which was proved correct when they contested the Louis Vuitton Trophy series in 2009/ 2010 and got killed, so they decided to exclude all those challengers, as well as the monohulls, and take the easy way to the AC where they could just out spend their opponents by building a 90 foot Tri maran with a wing sail. 

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21 minutes ago, sclarke said:

The very few teams brave enough to head to AC36 are in for a rough ride - including the NYYC entry BMQR - especially so if the to-be-labeled ‘National traitor’ DB is at the helm. Exhibit A is the disgusting, frothing-at-the-mouth Blackhearts campaign of 2003, one that included even death threats! One where NZ journo’s even spread the rumor that Alinghi had surreptitiously created those death threats, in their attempt to divert the guilt to Alinghi!

The Blackheart campaign was an embarrassment! I don't support or condone anything they did. Bunch of idiots who took it way too far!

 

Stay tuned.

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2 minutes ago, Stingray~ said:

Stay tuned.

Oh...just the one paragraph quote lol

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9 hours ago, nav said:

Well goodness gracious! 

If you prefer a, silver spoon sucking, semi-royal

Otherwise show a little graciousness yourself, Kiwis may not be too sophisticated, or used to dissembling and being smarmy - but they know how to do sport.

This young lady was gracious, did not have a silver spoon "sucking", was not semi-royal.

The smiling guys behaviour behind was pretty ugly and and it does not have anything with sport. GD lost a capital of sympathy in a matter of minutes. You should be able to win the cup and still behave with grace.

1498682686299.jpg.569863f5541de280e077f48856f061ac.jpg

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14 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

This young lady was gracious, did not have a silver spoon "sucking", was not semi-royal.

The smiling guys behaviour behind was pretty ugly and and it does not have anything with sport. GD lost a capital of sympathy in a matter of minutes. You should be able to win the cup and still behave with grace.

1498682686299.jpg.569863f5541de280e077f48856f061ac.jpg

Eh? What did the guy do that was ugly?  Are you referring to some of them throwing their prize swag to their fans / family in the crowd?

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38 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

This young lady was gracious, did not have a silver spoon "sucking", was not semi-royal.

The smiling guys behaviour behind was pretty ugly and and it does not have anything with sport. GD lost a capital of sympathy in a matter of minutes. You should be able to win the cup and still behave with grace.

1498682686299.jpg.569863f5541de280e077f48856f061ac.jpg

Apparently, smiling when you win isn't allowed as it is "ugly" you must stay straight faced the entire time lol

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41 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Eh? What did the guy do that was ugly?  Are you referring to some of them throwing their prize swag to their fans / family in the crowd?

You deny what your local press describe ? They even encourage this disgraceful behaviour as "classic kiwi".

"Some onlookers appeared shocked at the boys decision, but we think it personifies the classic Kiwi blokes they are. "

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11882685

As for sclarke, as usual you don't understand and you are going to come back saying that you did.

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8 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

You deny what your local press describe ? They even encourage this disgraceful behaviour as "classic kiwi".

"Some onlookers appeared shocked at the boys decision, but we think it personifies the classic Kiwi blokes they are. "

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=11882685

As for sclarke, as usual you don't understand and you are going to come back saying that you did.

No, as you'll see the by words I wrote, I'm not denying anything... I'm merely asking if this was the activity that you were regarding as ugly... seems it is?

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