• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
Barnyb

Team UK

4,398 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, aucklander said:

BAR made a few mistakes, and I maintain that most with an external eye will see that an incredible olympic sailor in class x does not necessarily make an incredible ceo and leader of a team of 100 people in class y.  

But one thing that BAR can't be faulted for, is that it is undoubtedly and unashamedly British.  Hats off to them for that.

They were never going to win it 1st time around. No one ever has.

And don't give me the Alinghi bullshit.

That was just etnz rebranded. If Ernie had started a team from scratch like Torbjorn has, he may never have won it.

I do wonder what an arrogant little fuck like that actually thinks he achieved.  I would argue fuck all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Rangi said:

Well that would be a big fucking waste of £100M wouldn't it? 

If they're in it to win eventually, they need to keep playing the game. It wasn't fun for ETNZ to head to the other side of the world to play in Valencia, SF and Bermuda, but we have. 

Unlikely Ainslie gets another 100 M Pounds.

They're not in to win it. GB winning the America's Cup was a Pipe-Dream and that will stay in the pipe forever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Why would Ainslie go to Auckland? His sponsors would have no benefits. Hopefully European Teams are boykotting Auckland.

Schultzy...... you were warned

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, aucklander said:

BAR made a few mistakes, and I maintain that most with an external eye will see that an incredible olympic sailor in class x does not necessarily make an incredible ceo and leader of a team of 100 people in class y.  

But one thing that BAR can't be faulted for, is that it is undoubtedly and unashamedly British.  Hats off to them for that.

Ainslie wasn't the problem, Whitmarsh was. Every mistake should be blamed on Whitmarsh not Ainslie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Why would Ainslie go to Auckland? His sponsors would have no benefits. Hopefully European Teams are boykotting Auckland.

That will include Alinghi too with a bit of luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Ainslie wasn't the problem, Whitmarsh was. Every mistake should be blamed on Whitmarsh not Ainslie.

for fucks sake..........the immature blame game........again they just weren't in it period , despite the time at ETNZ and Oracle arrogance got them, something constructive please Schultzy, I suspect you " Zee nuffink"......and it shows

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sailbydate said:

That will include Alinghi too with a bit of luck.

Alinghi should stay out of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Alinghi should stay out of it.

I agree with that!  They stuffed it up just as much as the current lot have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Alinghi should stay out of it.

Yes .. We could keep Alinghi and a few other undesirables out by requiring that the helmsman to be born in the challenging country.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not in the spirit of the Cup

If you want national representative sailing head to the Olympics

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, jaysper said:

I do wonder what an arrogant little fuck like that actually thinks he achieved. 

 

"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me. They possess and enjoy early, and it does something to them, makes them soft, where we are hard, cynical where we are trustful, in a way that, unless you were born rich, it is very difficult to understand"

F Scott Fitzgerald

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, rgeek said:

Not in the spirit of the Cup

If you want national representative sailing head to the Olympics

Agree. Boatbuilding nationality only.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

Why would Ainslie go to Auckland? His sponsors would have no benefits. Hopefully European Teams are boykotting Auckland.

You're fucking  clueless  

 

You really think  Landrover  and BMW  etc  are  aiming  to recoup  their outlay  by selling product  to the Bermuda  population. .   It's the event  and electronic  coverage  they are  after  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the cherry is US advertising, then BAR's sponsors are the only ones to really buy some time and attempt to achieve some benefit. BMW , Oracle, Airbus, Emirates, and most of the others are proportionally invisible. Bermuda Tourism is also investing in ad time.  The value of this stuff is closely calculated.  There will be fat reports on several desks within a  fortnight that will determine what happens next.

SHC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of which, the Land Rover commercial featuring BAR is popping up fairly regularly during the ad breaks at the US Open this week.  I'm watching the TSN feed at the moment, but I recall seeing it on the Fox US feed as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So the commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron was seen hanging around the villiage on the BT Sport feed with apparently a challenge in hand, do we know if he submitted seeing as LR was always going to be first?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So LRBAR 99% sure to be in ac36. So what next?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/29/2017 at 2:30 AM, Jazz Freak said:

So the commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron was seen hanging around the villiage on the BT Sport feed with apparently a challenge in hand, do we know if he submitted seeing as LR was always going to be first?

'with apparently a challenge in hand'?

That strikes me as a silly idea, one imagined to fulfill some fantasy about the value of trying to beat ETNZ-LR-XEROX to the punch. ELX.

The RYD Comm was there for completely other reasons than to naively run around looking like an idiot, looking for a hand to accept some imaginary pre-cooked Challenge Protocol, quite obviously.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ I'm not so sure it is such a bad idea given recent history of CORs withdrawing.  If for some reason LR withdrew (again, with history) wouldn't the RYS become the COR as next in line?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ezyb said:

^ I'm not so sure it is such a bad idea given recent history of CORs withdrawing.  If for some reason LR withdrew (again, with history) wouldn't the RYS become the COR as next in line?

Maybe.

The (long ago already-written?) Protocol between these two will likely have spelled out a succession order.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ i don't think it matters under the deed?  If LR pulls out before there are any challengers the next challenge submitted becomes the COR I think.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, ezyb said:

^ i don't think it matters under the deed?  If LR pulls out before there are any challengers the next challenge submitted becomes the COR I think.

Agreed, but it would have to be submitted and accepted 'next' after the pull out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/29/2017 at 9:30 PM, Jazz Freak said:

So the commodore of the Royal Yacht Squadron was seen hanging around the villiage on the BT Sport feed with apparently a challenge in hand, do we know if he submitted seeing as LR was always going to be first?

I imagine they would have submitted their challenge, for the simple reason that should CVS do a Hamilton Island YC, the second received Challenge becomes the CoR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ezyb said:

^ I'm not so sure it is such a bad idea given recent history of CORs withdrawing.  If for some reason LR withdrew (again, with history) wouldn't the RYS become the COR as next in line?

LR withdrew from AC35 for a very specific reason, it's very, very unlikely that similar conditions will happen again now that the dark side of the Cup has finally gone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ben "see you in Auckland". 

Theyll be here. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

he might be, but I'd have doubts there will be a team.  Some very unhappy sponsors and backers asking a lot of awkward questions right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really. You know this, do you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, GBH said:

he might be, but I'd have doubts there will be a team.  Some very unhappy sponsors and backers asking a lot of awkward questions right now.

That's a mighty big confident statement, 4 years out from AC36 and in light of the comment below from Sir Ben:

"We may already be committed to the next Cup but we are in the fortunate position of already having a number of partners and commercial sponsors on board."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the amount invested in infrastructure alone points at a 2 challenge run, they knew that they were up against it for the 35th, would have been happier to see OTUSA win it so they could continue with the current class & format, but he seems happy enough to head to AKL regardless

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, ~Stingray~ said:

What went wrong for Land Rover BAR in Bermuda?

 

The five-time Olympic medal winning Ben Ainslie and his hand-picked Land Rover BAR team simply ran out of time ahead of the 35th America's Cup.

http://www.yachtingworld.com/americas-cup/went-wrong-land-rover-bar-35th-americas-cup-109103

 

What went wrong is that they were a new team that foolishly set the publics expectations way too high. Nothing much else that I can see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, jaysper said:

What went wrong is that they were a new team that foolishly set the publics expectations way too high. Nothing much else that I can see.

Nothing wrong with high expectations, getting sponsorship is all about PR, hard to get anyone to jump on your bandwagon if you publicly set low expectations.

I was  just a bit disappointed the article it didn't bring any new information about what specifically went wrong. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BA has learned a crucial lesson, be bold, be innovative, don't be conservative. Don't do that and you lose. Here's hopes he can pull it off next time with proper innovation. He has the money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't it be ironic if BAR managed to poach Kiwi Nick Holroyd from OR-JPN, with Englishman Dan Bernasconi happy at ETNZ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Indio said:

Wouldn't it be ironic if BAR managed to poach Kiwi Nick Holroyd from OR-JPN, with Englishman Dan Bernasconi happy at ETNZ...

It would indeed! I recall one of the BT Sport presenters, Stevie Morrison (i think) trying to get an answer from Dan Bernasconi during the celebration walk to the podium in Bermuda whether he would consider heading to Team BAR, with Dan more or less ignoring the question and walking away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Honu007 said:

It would indeed! I recall one of the BT Sport presenters, Stevie Morrison (i think) trying to get an answer from Dan Bernasconi during the celebration walk to the podium in Bermuda whether he would consider heading to Team BAR, with Dan more or less ignoring the question and walking away.

Dan did answer Morrison's question at the time, effectively saying he was very happy at ETNZ and that they had a whole lot more "exciting developments" they had underway...perhaps a conceptual design of the new foiling AC69 monohull??B)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Indio said:

Dan did answer Morrison's question at the time, effectively saying he was very happy at ETNZ and that they had a whole lot more "exciting developments" they had underway...perhaps a conceptual design of the new foiling AC69 monohull??B)

that's awesome - good to hear. hope they put out the protocol soon so we can move on from the mono vs multi topic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KoW said:

Nothing wrong with high expectations, getting sponsorship is all about PR, hard to get anyone to jump on your bandwagon if you publicly set low expectations.

I was  just a bit disappointed the article it didn't bring any new information about what specifically went wrong. 

My point was that I don't think specifically anything did go wrong.

History shows that it is impossible to win the cup with a new team (don't cite Alinghi to me or I will go postal - they weren't a new team, just an old team rebranded)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What chance BAR still operating by the next AC? 

Loved all the hype and rumors that the RYS/BAR were going to be COR.  Never was going to happen, just more BAR PR hype. 

 

Next AC in foiling monohulls in 2021.

With no ACWS for the foreseeable future how can BA keep a big team together and pay the bills for four years and no events for sponsors. 

Stuck with big base in the UK and high overheads and too late to get a Volvo entry hard to see why Land Rover or any other sponsors want to keep paying the bills.  Aberdeen Asset adverts on BT sport embarrassing after BAR knocked put.  

Start by sacking the design team would help.  Design manager definitely not up to the job.  Who else to go to cut bleeding funds. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, winchfodder said:

What chance BAR still operating by the next AC? 

Loved all the hype and rumors that the RYS/BAR were going to be COR.  Never was going to happen, just more BAR PR hype. 

 

Next AC in foiling monohulls in 2021.

With no ACWS for the foreseeable future how can BA keep a big team together and pay the bills for four years and no events for sponsors. 

Stuck with big base in the UK and high overheads and too late to get a Volvo entry hard to see why Land Rover or any other sponsors want to keep paying the bills.  Aberdeen Asset adverts on BT sport embarrassing after BAR knocked put.  

Start by sacking the design team would help.  Design manager definitely not up to the job.  Who else to go to cut bleeding funds. 

I don't think we will have an ACWS as such, I do think we will have some kind of lead up event(s) though, too much of a wasted sponsorship opportunity for ETNZ to pass up.  I imagine ETNZ will want it to be in the same class of boat as the event itself (as it should be).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Boybland said:

I don't think we will have an ACWS as such, I do think we will have some kind of lead up event(s) though, too much of a wasted sponsorship opportunity for ETNZ to pass up.  I imagine ETNZ will want it to be in the same class of boat as the event itself (as it should be).

With Bruno Trouble in town for the Cup celebrations, I would not be surprised if the ACWS becomes the Louis Vuitton World Series contested along the format of the previous LV Pacific Series using AC50's without the wings. Or maybe morph it into the TP52's...

200px-Lvps_logo.jpg.14d4b78d14f097a07281efe117701bba.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, winchfodder said:

With no ACWS for the foreseeable future how can BA keep a big team together and pay the bills for four years and no events for sponsors. 

Stuck with big base in the UK and high overheads and too late to get a Volvo entry hard to see why Land Rover or any other sponsors want to keep paying the bills.  Aberdeen Asset adverts on BT sport embarrassing after BAR knocked put.  

Start by sacking the design team would help.  Design manager definitely not up to the job.  Who else to go to cut bleeding funds. 

As a dual UK and NZ citizen I have to reflect that I found the BAR performance embarrassing. I remember all there big claims and how well they were going to do. They had a rock star designer in  Adrian Newey the chief designer in Red Bull F1 team. I remember thinking wow they might be good. They had lots of money and a good helmsmen. I must admit I'm use to England teams under performing, but BAR were so off the pace it was horrifying. Id like to see another English challenge without any of the people who were in BAR, they couldn't do worse could they.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
58 minutes ago, Indio said:

With Bruno Trouble in town for the Cup celebrations, I would not be surprised if the ACWS becomes the Louis Vuitton World Series contested along the format of the previous LV Pacific Series using AC50's without the wings. Or maybe morph it into the TP52's...

It would be nice if ETNZ got off their collective asses and gave us a clue. Apart from a cryptic news conference when they won, they have been very good in not letting any information out. I remember after we won the cup in 95, there was a large period of time when there was a news blackout. I remember seeing  a TV One news article interviewing ex member of the winning crew saying that they haven't got a clue whats going on, and they couldn't make future plans, or even know if they would get a job again with TNZ.

If the past is any indication to go by we could have a bit of a wait.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/07/2017 at 0:48 PM, jaysper said:

My point was that I don't think specifically anything did go wrong.

History shows that it is impossible to win the cup with a new team (don't cite Alinghi to me or I will go postal - they weren't a new team, just an old team rebranded)

You could say any new team has an element of old teams rebranded. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, mako23 said:

It would be nice if ETNZ got off their collective asses and gave us a clue. Apart from a cryptic news conference when they won, they have been very good in not letting any information out. I remember after we won the cup in 95, there was a large period of time when there was a news blackout. I remember seeing  a TV One news article interviewing ex member of the winning crew saying that they haven't got a clue whats going on, and they couldn't make future plans, or even know if they would get a job again with TNZ.

If the past is any indication to go by we could have a bit of a wait.  

Seriously it's only been two weeks...  They have literally only just finished with the parades and shit.

If we still haven't heard anything in another month then you have free license to vent ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mako23 said:

It would be nice if ETNZ got off their collective asses and gave us a clue. Apart from a cryptic news conference when they won, they have been very good in not letting any information out. I remember after we won the cup in 95, there was a large period of time when there was a news blackout. I remember seeing  a TV One news article interviewing ex member of the winning crew saying that they haven't got a clue whats going on, and they couldn't make future plans, or even know if they would get a job again with TNZ.

If the past is any indication to go by we could have a bit of a wait.  

It would be nice if you could STFU and be patient. These guys are still in celebration and holiday mode. They will release information when THEY feel the time is right. I'd rather they take their time and get it right then rush and not get it right. It hasn't even been a month yet! Give the guys a break!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, sclarke said:

It would be nice if you could STFU and be patient. These guys are still in celebration and holiday mode. They will release information when THEY feel the time is right. I'd rather they take their time and get it right then rush and not get it right. It hasn't even been a month yet! Give the guys a break!

It would be nice if you could be civil, but that's unlikely is it 

I was under the impression that there was free speech in these forums but Hall monitor Sclarke doesn't like anyone having an opinion contrary to his own.  All Hail Sclarke overlord of Sailinganarchy  self proclaimed Fuhrer and moderator of what people can think and do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mako23 said:

It would be nice if you could be civil, but that's unlikely is it 

I was under the impression that there was free speech in these forums but Hall monitor Sclarke doesn't like anyone having an opinion contrary to his own.  All Hail Sclarke overlord of Sailinganarchy  self proclaimed Fuhrer and moderator of what people can think and do. 

Gees, sensitive much? if you can say it would be nice if...and its your opinion, than I can say it would be nice if...and its my opinion, true? You can do whatever you like. It would be nice if I won lotto, but thats not happening anytime soon, so you can go about your business however you'd like. All I said was it would be nice if... but if you don't agree, thats fine. Each to their own, but it would be nice if some had a little more patience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, sclarke said:

Gees, sensitive much? if you can say it would be nice if...and its your opinion, than I can say it would be nice if...and its my opinion, true? You can do whatever you like. It would be nice if I won lotto, but thats not happening anytime soon, so you can go about your business however you'd like. All I said was it would be nice if... but if you don't agree, thats fine. Each to their own, but it would be nice if some had a little more patience.

To be honest I felt the STFU was unnecessary, considering I was just giving an opinion and reflecting past behaviour of TNZ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@sclarke. Watch out because mao23 is rather a sensitive one. His last 2 posts have been along the same lines towards you and me. He really needs to drink a cup of cement or take his princess tiara off.:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, A Class Sailor said:

@sclarke. Watch out because mao23 is rather a sensitive one. His last 2 posts have been along the same lines towards you and me. He really needs to drink a cup of cement or take his princess tiara off.:D

If you look at the post you will find that I didn't start the slanging match. However once it starts I'm a brawler I admit. But once people want to make peace I'm more than ready to reciprocate. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FFS. Do you not know anything about forum etiquette? Big smiley face= making a joke, not to be taken seriously. You need to lighten up. This is anarchy and you are going to get the sort of thing you are complaining about. It doesn't call for your personal attacks you are making.:wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, A Class Sailor said:

FFS. Do you not know anything about forum etiquette? Big smiley face= making a joke, not to be taken seriously. You need to lighten up. This is anarchy and you are going to get the sort of thing you are complaining about. It doesn't call for your personal attacks you are making.:wacko:

Gee dude you start off a slanging match and then you complain when you don't like the results. 

Anyway I'm happy to make peace..the balls in your court

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 14/07/2017 at 10:06 AM, jaysper said:

BAR

What went wrong is that they were a new team that foolishly set the publics expectations way too high. Nothing much else that I can see.

I think the whole focus of BAR was wrong ...just look at the name Ben Ainslie Racing what a arrogant thing to call the team

Even Dennis Conner didn't call his team after himself........ it was Stars and Stripes

Its hardly going to encourage teamwork when the principal persons ego is so massive there's no room for anyone else. 

I don't know about ETNZ now (it still might be the same)  but in the days of Peter Blake it was really was a team were everyone could have a view and be heard. The total antithesis to BAR and also getting opposite results. The person to leave BAR should be Ben Ainsle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reality of bringing in the cash. Ben Ainsley is bigger than the sport in the UK. Don't hate BA, hate the Olympics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, rgeek said:

The reality of bringing in the cash. Ben Ainsley is bigger than the sport in the UK. Don't hate BA, hate the Olympics.

Yes that's a fair point his ability to bring in the cash is large

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mako23 said:

It would be nice if ETNZ got off their collective asses and gave us a clue. Apart from a cryptic news conference when they won, they have been very good in not letting any information out. I remember after we won the cup in 95, there was a large period of time when there was a news blackout. I remember seeing  a TV One news article interviewing ex member of the winning crew saying that they haven't got a clue whats going on, and they couldn't make future plans, or even know if they would get a job again with TNZ.

If the past is any indication to go by we could have a bit of a wait.  

Why do you believe you're entitled to know anything before they're ready? Is that the whinging pom side of you poking through??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Indio said:

Why do you believe you're entitled to know anything before they're ready? Is that the whinging pom side of you poking through??

Arrrhhh Indio thank you for opening the racist door. Now let me see you...... sheep shagging,...... knuckle dragging.............AAhhh why bother, because I'm dual national I can whinge double. P.S.  everything they say about the English whinging is true, it use to drive me crazy over there. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, mako23 said:

I think the whole focus of BAR was wrong ...just look at the name Ben Ainslie Racing what a arrogant thing to call the team

Even Dennis Conner didn't call his team after himself........ it was Stars and Stripes

Its hardly going to encourage teamwork when the principal persons ego is so massive there's no room for anyone else. 

I don't know about ETNZ now (it still might be the same)  but in the days of Peter Blake it was really was a team were everyone could have a view and be heard. The total antithesis to BAR and also getting opposite results. The person to leave BAR should be Ben Ainsle

If you look closely at ETNZ, their design philosophy initially was 'everything is on the table'. Both Dalton & Ashby were quoted as saying no matter how far fetched the idea, lets see if we can make it work, then fit within the class rule.

So rather than start within the class rule and push the boundaries of the rule from the inside, they started outside the rule they developed ideas and did what they had to in order to make the boat measure.

1 hour ago, mako23 said:

Yes that's a fair point his ability to bring in the cash is large

As is Grant Dalton's...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, NZL3481 said:
As is Grant Dalton's...

I hope you are correct because he will need to raise a lot more. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, mako23 said:

It would be nice if ETNZ got off their collective asses and gave us a clue. Apart from a cryptic news conference when they won, they have been very good in not letting any information out. I remember after we won the cup in 95, there was a large period of time when there was a news blackout. I remember seeing  a TV One news article interviewing ex member of the winning crew saying that they haven't got a clue whats going on, and they couldn't make future plans, or even know if they would get a job again with TNZ.

If the past is any indication to go by we could have a bit of a wait.  

easy to iggy you tho. 

Dalts said they wouldn't wait 6 months like OR did.  And I bet he won't change the protocol around either.

But anyway, keep frothing. i love a good setup...remember DL?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

42 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Arrrhhh Indio thank you for opening the racist door. Now let me see you...... sheep shagging,...... knuckle dragging.............AAhhh why bother, because I'm dual national I can whinge double. P.S.  everything they say about the English whinging is true, it use to drive me crazy over there. 

So there's a village in Devon still looking for you then??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Indio said:

 

So there's a village in Devon still looking for you then??

No they have plenty to pick from in Cornwall, Actual the ironic thing is im flying to the UK next Saturday and ill be visiting dorset and devon. It really is a nice part of england. At least im getting away from Auckland weather for a couple of weeks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, barfy said:

easy to iggy you tho. 

Dalts said they wouldn't wait 6 months like OR did.  And I bet he won't change the protocol around either.

But anyway, keep frothing. i love a good setup...remember DL?

Sorry inbetween frothing Ive lost my Acronym lists whats DL

Gee theres so many acronyms you have to know here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, winchfodder said:

What chance BAR still operating by the next AC? 

Loved all the hype and rumors that the RYS/BAR were going to be COR.  Never was going to happen, just more BAR PR hype. 

 

Next AC in foiling monohulls in 2021.

With no ACWS for the foreseeable future how can BA keep a big team together and pay the bills for four years and no events for sponsors. 

Stuck with big base in the UK and high overheads and too late to get a Volvo entry hard to see why Land Rover or any other sponsors want to keep paying the bills.  Aberdeen Asset adverts on BT sport embarrassing after BAR knocked put.  

Start by sacking the design team would help.  Design manager definitely not up to the job.  Who else to go to cut bleeding funds. 

Once again you're absolutely wrong big time. BAR isn't at risk for AC 36 if they want to challenge. It's Teams like Artemis, Japan, France who are at risk but not BAR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, mako23 said:

As a dual UK and NZ citizen I have to reflect that I found the BAR performance embarrassing. I remember all there big claims and how well they were going to do. They had a rock star designer in  Adrian Newey the chief designer in Red Bull F1 team. I remember thinking wow they might be good. They had lots of money and a good helmsmen. I must admit I'm use to England teams under performing, but BAR were so off the pace it was horrifying. Id like to see another English challenge without any of the people who were in BAR, they couldn't do worse could they.

Adrian Newey saw how OD the rules were and decided to design the ultimate Aston Martin and then turn his attention back to F1, if he ever gets to design a proper AC boat, he will be a game changer...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Spinbot mining for dirt on anyone except lazza and russ especially if it's skm, who he hates only slightly less than GD...you can't open it unless you subscribe so we'll put this post in the 'utter bollocks' file...

Reasons to be cheerful...it takes him up to 48,619 posts on SA, and there is good science which says when he hits send on post 50K his head will blow off his shoulders...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PJB said:

meeting at the base today

speculate away ....

Finally calling bullshit on Orifice?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/18/2017 at 1:05 AM, Alinghi4ever said:

Once again you're absolutely wrong big time. BAR isn't at risk for AC 36 if they want to challenge. It's Teams like Artemis, Japan, France who are at risk but not BAR.

Thats a far cry from a team who was apparently struggling to even enter this cycle and in no way could afford a trip to NZ for a qualifying event.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Thats a far cry from a team who was apparently struggling to even enter this cycle and in no way could afford a trip to NZ for a qualifying event.

Correct, a lot way from that, because you are just making shit up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

Correct, a lot way from that, because you are just making shit up.

Wasn't me mate, it was GBR and A4E who claimed BAR couldn't afford to come to New Zealand for the qualifier, and struggled for funds to enter this cycle...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 17/07/2017 at 2:05 PM, Alinghi4ever said:

Once again you're absolutely wrong big time. BAR isn't at risk for AC 36 if they want to challenge. It's Teams like Artemis, Japan, France who are at risk but not BAR.

Must have struck a raw nerve. Might as well go on and get even more wrong.

BAR need to downsize very quickly and mothball most of the white elephant base built using a fair old whack of taxpayers money (interesting to see that one of the team principals was also trying to screw the taxpayers by writing off his ill advised investment in Team  Origin). 

Problem as pointed out in the previous post is that likely schedule could be 50ft foiling monohulls for a world series starting in Auckland in early 2019 followed by events in Sicily,  Dubai and the USA through to February 2020. Then first 85 or 90 footers launched in mid 2020 for a challenger knock out series in late 2020  through to the AC in February 2021.

BA needs to dramatically cut overheads and staff as quickly as possible. Certainly dump the hopeless design team. 

Fortunate for BA is that a return to match racing in monohulls means that he will not have to surrender the helm to some teenage moth freak. 

Also that constructed in country and nationality clauses will benefit BAR. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BAR Race Record

If BAR performance was listed in the formula   performance=(results achieved) /  (money spent)  

it would be appalling low and the worse of any challenger by a considerable degree ......not an easy sell to new investors

The English Economy and Brexit.  

If the English economy was a cat you would be wondering should you be taking it down to the vets for the final "injection" 

To add further problems is the news that your cat is developing Feline Aids (Brexit)

Not the best environment to raise money

 

Finally

To say that the BAR syndicates wouldn't be facing problems seems to ignore some basic realities

BAR say they have the funding in place is not the same as saying they have the money in the bank

Also I'm not above accusing BAR of bullshitting in the same way I'm not above accusing ANY syndicate of bullshitting that includes ETNZ

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, winchfodder said:

Must have struck a raw nerve. Might as well go on and get even more wrong.

BAR need to downsize very quickly and mothball most of the white elephant base built using a fair old whack of taxpayers money (interesting to see that one of the team principals was also trying to screw the taxpayers by writing off his ill advised investment in Team  Origin). 

Problem as pointed out in the previous post is that likely schedule could be 50ft foiling monohulls for a world series starting in Auckland in early 2019 followed by events in Sicily,  Dubai and the USA through to February 2020. Then first 85 or 90 footers launched in mid 2020 for a challenger knock out series in late 2020  through to the AC in February 2021.

BA needs to dramatically cut overheads and staff as quickly as possible. Certainly dump the hopeless design team. 

Fortunate for BA is that a return to match racing in monohulls means that he will not have to surrender the helm to some teenage moth freak. 

Also that constructed in country and nationality clauses will benefit BAR. 

BAR isn't going to downsize anything. BA said no matter if ETNZ goes mono or multi his Core Team will stay. Artemis, France and Japan are much more at risk from the AC 35 Teams than BAR is. BAR even had Papers & a Challenge in their hand in case LR wasn't selected shows you how advanced BAR already is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Alinghi4ever said:

BAR isn't going to downsize anything. BA said no matter if ETNZ goes mono or multi his Core Team will stay. Artemis, France and Japan are much more at risk from the AC 35 Teams than BAR is. BAR even had Papers & a Challenge in their hand in case LR wasn't selected shows you how advanced BAR already is.

The chance of BAR /RYS becoming COR was one of  their more ridiculous and fanciful plans wasting even more time and money and focus in the pursuit which would have been better spent on a decent design team. It was never going to happen with Whitmarsh (the architect of the Framework) on board.   Get real. 

As for personnel it would be crazy to maintain and staff a large uk operation with nothing to do for the next year. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, winchfodder said:

The chance of BAR /RYS becoming COR was one of  their more ridiculous and fanciful plans

What leads you to believe there was any such plan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

What leads you to believe there was any such plan?

The Daily Telegraph reported on their Live Blog on the Final Race Day that the Commodore of the "Royal Yacht Squadron" had an envelope in his hand ready to challenge if Luna Rossa wasn't selected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, winchfodder said:

The chance of BAR /RYS becoming COR was one of  their more ridiculous and fanciful plans wasting even more time and money and focus in the pursuit which would have been better spent on a decent design team. It was never going to happen with Whitmarsh (the architect of the Framework) on board.   Get real. 

As for personnel it would be crazy to maintain and staff a large uk operation with nothing to do for the next year. 

 

 

You are ignoring some basic facts here and should go hiding.

When LRBAR started in 2014 the existing Teams OTUSA, ETNZ and ART had already their "Design Teams" in place while BAR had nothing. They had to spent the first 12 months of their AC 35 Challenge putting a Team in place especially the Design Team so they took the hand they were dealt with and had to ran with it and YET they won as many Races as Team Japan who got help from OTUSA. Take that. BA said numerous times that they were off the back foot, it was a huge rush to even get organized which leads me to believe they wouldn't have made it if the AC Qualifiers would have been held in Auckland as originally proposed in the AC 35 Protocol and then the Semis & Finals in Bermuda.

If anything they will need to hire more people and start earlier to have a shot at it because many believe AC 36 will allow Teams to built two Boats once again like it was in 2000, 2003, 2007 and 2013. They simply started too late for AC 35 to have a real chance making it to the AC Match. I expect the costs to spike and increase once again for AC 36. We'll have to wait until September to get a clearer picture though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, dogwatch said:

And you believe that?

Absolutely given how vocally BA supported the "Framework Agreement".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, dogwatch said:

And you believe that?

I think it actually made sense for one of the London Framework teams to lodge a challenge even though they knew the COR was pre-determined.  Given LR's history of taking their ball and going home if they don't get their way, being next in line could potentially give them plenty of leverage if they don't like the protocol and there's no one else signed up.  It doesn't cost anything to lodge the challenge (apart from potentially a few hours in legal fees), so smart move in my books.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ezyb said:

I think it actually made sense for one of the London Framework teams to lodge a challenge even though they knew the COR was pre-determined.  Given LR's history of taking their ball and going home if they don't get their way, being next in line could potentially give them plenty of leverage if they don't like the protocol and there's no one else signed up.  It doesn't cost anything to lodge the challenge (apart from potentially a few hours in legal fees), so smart move in my books.

Just more distraction when they should have been focused on winning.  Totally different approach from ETNZ.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ It happened weeks after they were eliminated, so presumably zero distraction.  LRBAR had many issues in AC35, but a potential back-up challenge by the yacht club they represent was not one of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, dogwatch said:

And you believe that?

If it wasn't a Challenge, it was probably an invoice for the hydraulic ram BAR generously helped ETNZ with.:)

They did show on the live coverage the gentlemen from the BAR yacht club on the jetty with the said envelope in his hand....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It could have been a letter from Liz

Dear Grant

Well done on a good regatta. Thank you for beating those horrid Australians. There was a good reason we sent their ancestors over there to the colony. 

Come around for tea soon and I will make you a knight.

 

Queenie

ps Kate is still a bit upset about Sir Ben's performance

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Barnyb said:

It could have been a letter from Liz

Dear Grant

Well done on a good regatta. Thank you for beating those horrid Australians. There was a good reason we sent their ancestors over there to the colony. 

Come around for tea soon and I will make you a knight.

 

Queenie

ps Kate is still a bit upset about Sir Ben's performance

Performance ? In yachting or bed?

There is conjecture around Harry's parentage, is there likewise around Georgies?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jaysper said:

Performance ? In yachting or bed?

There is conjecture around Harry's parentage, is there likewise around Georgies?

You know Prince George is named after Georgie as per Ben's request!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/17/2017 at 9:24 PM, mako23 said:

I hope you are correct because he will need to raise a lot more. 

No-one does it better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/07/2017 at 2:42 AM, Alinghi4ever said:

The Daily Telegraph reported on their Live Blog on the Final Race Day that the Commodore of the "Royal Yacht Squadron" had an envelope in his hand ready to challenge if Luna Rossa wasn't selected.

If LR did NOT put in a bid for some strange reason ie death in family or financial problems...who would get the nod

The Swiss if Alinghi turned up...never in a million years

Oracle......never in a Billion

The French...after the GTF issue.... not very likely

The Swedes....maybe ( But they have a Billionaire so could be problems)

The Japs...with Dean Barker holding a grudge and being Oracle Stool pigeons....not likely at all

Bar & British...The Kiwis and Brits are family....... of course wed take it

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/07/2017 at 5:42 PM, jaysper said:

Performance ? In yachting or bed?

There is conjecture around Harry's parentage, is there likewise around Georgies?

Witty response....... how ever there is always some prick who gets finicky over a small tiny point

Harry was born born before Dianna meet James Hewitt. 

P.S I'm not a royalist..... as a tax paying citizen of the UK  for 13 years I resented in paying for this bunch of inbreed greedy spongers. Did respect the Queen as hard working

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, mako23 said:

Witty response....... how ever there is always some prick who gets finicky over a small tiny point

Harry was born born before Dianna meet James Hewitt. 

P.S I'm not a royalist..... as a tax paying citizen of the UK  for 13 years I resented in paying for this bunch of inbreed greedy spongers. Did respect the Queen as hard working

Hadn't met him yet that we know of :D

Yout have to admit he doesn't look a whole lot like his "father".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Hadn't met him yet that we know of :D

Yout have to admit he doesn't look a whole lot like his "father".

the fact that Harry had Ginger hair and Hewitt did as well got tongues wagging. However in Diana family there were a few Gingers

spencer family.jpg

Diana with her sister and Brother

Sadly as a young Man I never got to check if Diana matched the Carpet with the Curtains

However before her marriage I was a snotty nosed little 15 year old kid with nothing to my name and Charles was going to be King and was worth Hundreds Of Millions and she rejected me out of hand ...who would of guessed...and then I woke up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now