Barnyb

Team UK

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2 hours ago, RobG said:

Because a long shot of the submerged port foil gives away so much more detail than the opening close shot of the raised starboard foil?

I certainly wondered the same thing. But I believe my eyes, and I've done a fair bit of vfx. As I said I'm on the fence about it, could be very fine spray that looks strange from the overhead shot. The blur matte looks like student work actually...

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19 hours ago, barfy said:

I certainly wondered the same thing. But I believe my eyes, and I've done a fair bit of vfx. As I said I'm on the fence about it, could be very fine spray that looks strange from the overhead shot. The blur matte looks like student work actually...

Again I would ask why they would bother doing a CGI when they have put out real footage. It makes zero sense. If there really is some doctoring of the image, maybe it is no more than hiding things they consider important, which is what happened in Bermuda with most teams. How about they are hiding the wake because it would give away info on leeway? Or one of a number of other things. The idea of a fake video simply does not add up.

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Never mentioned full cgi, just some vfx blur or enhanced spray in part of the shot.

And as mentioned,a great shot of the windward foil wing.???

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6 hours ago, A Class Sailor said:

Again I would ask why they would bother doing a CGI when they have put out real footage. It makes zero sense.

To make it look more impressive -> build hype, aka marketing, which is what that vid is about.

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There is what looks like wind-chop from the N coupled with ground swell from the E. That isn't common in the Solent. Also no gust streaks, which I'd expect to see. A curious lack of shadow. I am having trouble identifying the shore background, yet it is an area I know well. I'd like to say it is genuine but I think it is CGI. Not 100% certain though.

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It's eastern Solent in a north - easterly breeze breeze. Horse Sand fort at the start of the video. Reaching back toward Portsmouth harbour entrance. 

In the last shot before it cuts to the INEOS logo you can see South Parade Pier in the far left of shot and Langstone Harbour Entrance in the far right. 

In all their videos they've gone for this heavy teal low lights and washed out highlights. I think it's just the colouring preference of their video editing guy, but it does wash out the horizon a bit. 

The video is also 60fps which creates a weird feel. I think it's slowed down to half speed. 

I've seen them out training in this area quit a bit before. In fact I'd think they'd train there mostly as it's out of the way of the Cowes small boat traffic. 

I don't see anything weird about the waves, you often get an easterly swell as it hooks around the eastern end of the IoW. 

No idea if the spray is doctored. But it seems odd to do so. I think they have spy boats following them anyways, plus there's plenty of un-doctored amateur footage too. 

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I agree it looks like the eastern end of the Solent in a north or NNE breeze. The background on the north island looks insufficiently built-up to be Southsea and where has the Spinnaker Tower gone? I only recall E swell that pronounced in the Solent when the wind is more directly E and if the wind is coming off the mainland it normally has gust streaks, which in this video you don't see. So it all doesn't quite add up to me. Maybe you are right and it looks unreal due to so much treatment. As I said, I'm not certain.

I've no doubt they are actually out sailing and training. Just not sure about this video.

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Foils look flatter now, less anhedral than previously, big suckers to! Light weather, high lift foils?

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1 hour ago, Boybland said:

Foils look flatter now, less anhedral than previously, big suckers to! Light weather, high lift foils?

are you allowed articulation of the joint with the vertical stab? too lazy to check prot. would allow control of anhedral during racing...

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And the flap hinges are getting harder to spot. Must be big gains with flexible membranes which I believe were specified ok in the rule.

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from facebook... difference between left and right foil...

Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: lucht, wolk en buiten

Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: een of meer mensen, lucht en buiten

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Just now, daan62 said:

from facebook... difference between left and right foil...

Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: lucht, wolk en buiten

Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: een of meer mensen, lucht en buiten

 

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9 hours ago, daan62 said:

from facebook... difference between left and right foil...

That port foil wouldn't fit the rule I don't think.

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You would think that gross differences in foil set up would be better modeled in simulation.

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13 hours ago, daan62 said:

from facebook... difference between left and right foil...

Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: lucht, wolk en buiten

Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: een of meer mensen, lucht en buiten

And it looks like they're using a D-section mast.

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1 hour ago, hoom said:

623Aze8.jpg

 

Might have fit the original rule

MucM4Dp.jpg

In what way did the rule change?

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Did you open your eyes & look at the hatched area on the diagrams?

1st is the updated rule, 2nd pic is original.

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Don't know what diagrams you mean but never mind.

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Interesting...didn't catch that change. Basically went from a 1100'mm box to a 700'mm box. 

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Hoom, I see what you mean now, thanks. I wonder why the rule changed there?

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1 hour ago, dogwatch said:

Hoom, I see what you mean now, thanks. I wonder why the rule changed there?

to disadvantage the challengers of course :-)

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3 hours ago, Kiwing said:

to disadvantage the challengers of course :-)

I disagree

Surely it is something based on their testing of the hydraulic system? 

I dont think this defender is going to be playing games quite like our last....

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Strange, small surface for the foil wing:

- 700 vs 1100 mm depth

- 75 mm vs 150 mm above the foil socket

I guess it has to do with a different foil or foil socket in order to be able to accept the pressure coming from the flap.

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^ 2x75=150 ;)

I.e. no change of dimension there, just a change in the way the measurement is designated (from center -line)

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And here it is - Fracker1.....

image.png.3a9edd28a96f4bc41d9d9be420343b39.png

from a PR piece.......

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This pic nicely shows the foil in operating position.

Vertical lift section max outboard & horizontal, inner section relatively vertical for max leeway effect.

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3 hours ago, hoom said:

This pic nicely shows the foil in operating position.

Vertical lift section max outboard & horizontal, inner section relatively vertical for max leeway effect.

Huge contrast to the Magic one. The lift to leeward will affect apparent wind advantageously ??

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4 hours ago, Kiwing said:

The lift to leeward will affect apparent wind advantageously ??

Leeway resistance, leeway reduction, anti-leeway effect...

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On 11/10/2018 at 9:08 PM, hoom said:

Leeway resistance, leeway reduction, anti-leeway effect...

Rather than using the combined vector of a flat foil to achieve the same thing. As surf sailor mentioned regards the wake beside the mule, I guess the effects of surface piercing may compromise the flat design wing.

Gonna be interesting to see the etnz design upon launch next year.

And this may have been what mini frack was obscuring in their video.

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3 hours ago, barfy said:

Rather than using the combined vector of a flat foil to achieve the same thing.

Worked for ETNZ last time *shrug*

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On 11/10/2018 at 10:23 AM, hoom said:

This pic nicely shows the foil in operating position.

Vertical lift section max outboard & horizontal, inner section relatively vertical for max leeway effect.

It's not a simple equation though, anhedral may have benefits but so does a straight wing. The optimal amount, from say zero to say 30° max, will depend on a number of variables.

The maximum anhedral is about 30° below horizontal (to fit within the rule geometry limits), so where the outer wing is horizontal, the inner wing will be depressed about 60°. That requires the arm to be raised about 30°, so the boat will be lower to the water. It can't be lengthened or reshaped to compensate (supplied equipment, geometry limits). But raising the arm also moves the outer wing further out, so more RM.

Any additional lift from the inner wing  for leeway control is anti–RM. At the maximum (say 60° below Hz), about 15% goes to vertical lift that takes away from the outer wing's lift. It also creates a torsion to leeward, so stress on the joint and more anti–RM. 

For a straight wing, (no anhedral), the arm can be lower and the boat higher for the same foil depth at the joint. Canting the foil to windward lowers the boat, creates lift to windward and moves the foil further out, so it too gains RM.

There are lots of pros and cons to consider. I don't think the tip of a straight wing angled say 20° to windward piercing the surface is much of an issue (provided it's allowed for in the design) until the boats are near the limit. It will most likely happen going to windward where maximum windward lift is used, so a flat foil may be less prone to ventilation drops.

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I've made no attempt to quantify it or prove its best, I just think its notable that it splits the functions so similarly to ETNZs winning foils.

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