Barnyb

Team UK

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13 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

but it’s not relevant to the actual sailing is it?

Firstly,  apart from some highly selective video of the Mule, there is no "actual sailing" and won't be for months to come.

Secondly, you can take the view that the AC is Just Another Regatta but you won't find all that many here to agree with you and I don't believe you believe that anyway. If so, how many other 2021 regattas are you posting about?

Some here are interested mostly in the technology. Some in the sailing. Some in the money and the politics. Different strokes. It is rather arrogant to believe everyone must be interested in what interests you and interest in other aspects is illegitimate.

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39 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Not blessed with a sense of humour were you?  

What? So what RobG said wasn't true - and he was just trolling?

You'll forgive me if I await his confirmation of such ironically retarded behaviour 

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3 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Firstly,  apart from some highly selective video of the Mule, there is no "actual sailing" and won't be for months to come.

Secondly, you can take the view that the AC is Just Another Regatta but you won't find all that many here to agree with you and I don't believe you believe that anyway. If so, how many other 2021 regattas are you posting about?

Some here are interested mostly in the technology. Some in the sailing. Some in the money and the politics. Different strokes. It is rather arrogant to believe everyone must be interested in what interests you and interest in other aspects is illegitimate.

A kiwi telling people about arrogance..

 

of of course I do t thing everyone Must want to follow the same narrative, but the politicking is dull as fuck and just cheap point scoring, the tech the boats the raceing ( eventually) is what makes the event.

 

why can’t the place just be a bit more positive is my thought.

 

 

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You think I am a Kiwi? Take a look at what is says against my handle.

I don't give a flying fuck about the tech but I don't attempt to impose that viewpoint on others.

If you think you will turn SAAC into a cheerful band of campers whistling a happy tune, you really have come to the wrong place.

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Nothing is being imposed is it?

 

you seem troubled? Stress at work? Unresolved anger? What is it that’s wrong?

and fine you want this place to be your merry pit of doom and self fulfilling profecy? Cool crack on but look who is imposing now?

point is you don’t have to be a cunt 

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15 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Who?

(The glass houses are different)

Sailing doesn't give a shit about human rights.  Sailing gives a shit about being looking clean and green, since that is where the big sponsorship money seems to be.  The funny part is that when World Sailing announced a few years ago their Green Initiative or whatever it was called, a few of us immediately saw it as an attempt to get big polluter sponsorship money (remember the Gazprom deal?). 

Surprise. It worked better than they thought...but just for Ben.

 

 

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10 hours ago, dogwatch said:

Actually I had quite a lot to say at one point about Gunvor. So if you think Ineos is the only sponsor I have criticised, you are entirely wrong.

 

So did this website.  SA was quite critical of the Tornqvist, as were many posters.  

 

Seems JAZ is one of those "I didn't see it so therefore..."

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21 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/united-arab-emirates

Emirates... the air line flying people to an idyllic part of the world and using TNZ as its messenger. those sponsorship dollars must taste great

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/united-arab-emirates

unless you are female, a foreign construction worker, want to express your freedom of speech, live in Yemen, don’t like getting tortured or detained without trail  etc 

 

Of course, one argument is to say that by promoting travel to the Emirates and opening that part of the world to more progressive cultures will, in the end, assist in improving human rights in those countries.

But I don't want to get involved, so I won't. 

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1 hour ago, JALhazmat said:

point is you don’t have to be a cunt 

Charming. Conversation terminated.

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1 hour ago, MR.CLEAN said:

So did this website.  SA was quite critical of the Tornqvist, as were many posters.  

 

Seems JAZ is one of those "I didn't see it so therefore..."

Thanks clean 

I did see the posts at the time and it was amazing how little traction the issue had on any of the Artemis threads 

unlike the repetitive chat from dogwatch  and his chums about Ineos 

but it seems I was on point about there being something wrong and he has taken things personally. 

 

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12 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Thanks clean 

I did see the posts at the time and it was amazing how little traction the issue had on any of the Artemis threads 

unlike the repetitive chat from dogwatch  and his chums about Ineos 

but it seems I was on point about there being something wrong and he has taken things personally. 

 

You sound like one of those Team Sky fans.

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Aww shucks do I? I doubt it as I don’t ride and my only cycling knowledge is of a very cheaty American, and Team GB generally smashing the shit out of everyone at the Olympics and world champs.  

please tell me you are one of those  disproportionately outraged cycling “fans” that can’t stomach Ineos taking over the team? 

 

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22 hours ago, rh2600 said:

Well... I see your angle, but the shot is fundamentally wrong... Emirates doesn't actually promote the UAE any more than any other destination on the planet. It has no interest in flying you to Dubai, it has an interest in flying you anywhere you want to go in the world that it has routes for... it's not a national carrier in that sense... its one of the few global carriers, by design...

Come on RH2600, open up your eyes and don't try to sugar coat it.  The point is that when people start criticizing one sponsor they better understand their sponsor.  Emirates Airline is solely owned by the government of UAE.  A country that may look nice on the surface to visitors, but being a collection of absolute monarchies it has significant human rights issues.  

According to the New York Times, the UAE is "an autocracy with the sheen of a progressive, modern state".  

It is considered a "not Free" country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World).   

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12 minutes ago, Herfy said:

Come on RH2600, open up your eyes and don't try to sugar coat it.  The point is that when people start criticizing one sponsor they better understand their sponsor.  Emirates Airline is solely owned by the government of UAE.  A country that may look nice on the surface to visitors, but being a collection of absolute monarchies it has significant human rights issues.  

According to the New York Times, the UAE is "an autocracy with the sheen of a progressive, modern state".  

It is considered a "not Free" country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_in_the_World).   

Herfy, I have no dog in this hunt. As I've already spelled out, I'm aware of UAEs human rights record, and the relationship between the state and Emirates Airline. As someone that hasn't criticised INEOS, nor can I recall any other Kiwi fans doing so... I still don't see why is this complaint and accusation of Kiwi hypocrisy is being made?

As I've asked others above, even if I'm prepared to concede that the individual that is Ratcliffe is morally, ethically and behaviourally identical to a corporation owned by a state-backed investment vehicle of a state with a clearly dubious human rights record, please point to where you see ETNZ fans criticising INEOS (let alone doing it whilst being ignorant of UAE's situation).

From what I can tell this whole beat-up is because JALhazmat thought dogwatch was a Kiwi... 

In order to accuse Kiwi fans of being hypocrites, you'd need to demonstrate two things being simultaneously true:

1. Kiwi fans don't consider Emirates to be in any way contaminated by their connection to the UAE / Dubai State.
2. Those same Kiwi fans have been criticising INEOs as a bad corporate actor.

Those that have made those accusations need to produce such accounts or admit their mistake...

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Ranking odious sponsors is a moving target Cup to Cup.  

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2 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Of course, one argument is to say that by promoting travel to the Emirates and opening that part of the world to more progressive cultures will, in the end, assist in improving human rights in those countries.

 

First World Colonialism.

’We know what’s good 4U.’

Ho humm....

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16 minutes ago, NeedAClew said:

Ranking odious sponsors is a moving target Cup to Cup.  

Some sponsors yes but,  they pale in comparison to the NYYC.

Watch the long version vids of the ‘77 Cup and watch Mouth of South toss aside collective douchery of NYYC, Ted Hood and Lowell North and,  beat them with his own sails (courtesy Robbie Doyle).  

Turner openly mocked the ‘sportsmanship’ of them after having pre-regatta arrangements with North for sails tossed aside, per NYYC dirtbags, after Courageous romped the first trials round & NYYC obviously pulling for Hood.

Shout out to Dick Sadler & Courageous ‘77.

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48 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Herfy, I have no dog in this hunt. As I've already spelled out, I'm aware of UAEs human rights record, and the relationship between the state and Emirates Airline. As someone that hasn't criticised INEOS, nor can I recall any other Kiwi fans doing so... I still don't see why is this complaint and accusation of Kiwi hypocrisy is being made?

As I've asked others above, even if I'm prepared to concede that the individual that is Ratcliffe is morally, ethically and behaviourally identical to a corporation owned by a state-backed investment vehicle of a state with a clearly dubious human rights record, please point to where you see ETNZ fans criticising INEOS (let alone doing it whilst being ignorant of UAE's situation).

From what I can tell this whole beat-up is because JALhazmat thought dogwatch was a Kiwi... 

In order to accuse Kiwi fans of being hypocrites, you'd need to demonstrate two things being simultaneously true:

1. Kiwi fans don't consider Emirates to be in any way contaminated by their connection to the UAE / Dubai State.
2. Those same Kiwi fans have been criticising INEOs as a bad corporate actor.

Those that have made those accusations need to produce such accounts or admit their mistake...

Just up from where we started our discussion on the previous page

2mins of looking later.Nav, and NZK

 

i lumped in dog watch mistakenly

 

1. No written criticism of emirates or question of their background and what they are connected with from either

2. Read it yourself on the previous page

 

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41 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Just up from where we started our discussion on the previous page

2mins of looking later.Nav, and NZK

 

i lumped in dog watch mistakenly

 

1. No written criticism of emirates or question of their background and what they are connected with from either

2. Read it yourself on the previous page

 

Fair enough... two likely Kiwis don't like Ratcliffe... uncertain what they think of UAE...

I note plenty more UK and US fans also critiquing INEOS - so what makes this a Kiwi-specific-hypocracy thing?

Invalidate them, and you are still left with plenty of opposition to some the conduct of INEOs by fellow UK sailors and others from around the world...

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14 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

Fair enough... two likely Kiwis don't like Ratcliffe... uncertain what they think of UAE...

I note plenty more UK and US fans also critiquing INEOS - so what makes this a Kiwi-specific-hypocracy thing?

Invalidate them, and you are still left with plenty of opposition to some the conduct of INEOs by fellow UK sailors and others from around the world...

It’s not a Kiwi specific hypocrisy. You’re just choosing to willingly ignore the skeletons in the closet of your own sponsors while talking shit about other team sponsors. 

Its an individual poster hypocrisy. 

Sponsors that are genuinely good people are a rare thing. You normally  don’t get to the point of having fuck off money to throw at the America’s Cup without having baggage. 

Environmental issues are just trendier right now than human rights issues in the Middle East. That’s why there’s more grumbling about INEOS. It’s sad, but true. 

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Well, we are lucky we live in a time of choice.

Many human rights issues still abound, and we have really fucked our pretty planet beyond repair.

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45 minutes ago, barfy said:

Well, we are lucky we live in a time of choice.

Many human rights issues still abound, and we have really fucked our pretty planet beyond repair.

Quite frankly, it’s a big mess all around. 

I’m an American Magic fan, and their primary sponsor made their money conning housewives into a pyramid scheme. 

We all just need to be a little honest. 

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10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Quite frankly, it’s a big mess all around. 

I’m an American Magic fan, and their primary sponsor made their money conning housewives into a pyramid scheme. 

We all just need to be a little honest. 

You can't compare that and fracking to stoning women for infidelity or death penalty for apostasy.

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2 minutes ago, Tornado-Cat said:

You can't compare that and fracking to stoning women for infidelity or death penalty for apostasy.

I never did. I simply said that there’s baggage behind every sponsor. 

I only pointed out the hypocrisy of a certain poster who thinks they’re free of it. 

I’m avoiding the whole “who’s worst” debate.  I’d rather talk boats.

 

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10 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I never did. I simply said that there’s baggage behind every sponsor. 

I only pointed out the hypocrisy of a certain poster who thinks they’re free of it. 

 I’d rather talk boats.

 

I fully agree, mainly on the hypocrisy of some.

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3 hours ago, Monkey said:

You’re just choosing to willingly ignore the skeletons in the closet of your own sponsors while talking shit about other team sponsors. 

No I'm not, because whilst others may have

a) I haven't spoken shit about INEOS and b) I'm not ignorant of UAE human rights abuses...

So go fling your shit elsewhere...

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7 hours ago, blunderfull said:

First World Colonialism.

’We know what’s good 4U.’

Ho humm....

I don’t know if that’s what I said actually. 

But you can’t have it both ways. You can’t say “hey, bad guys, you’re bad and you should be more like us.... but don’t let us influence you”.

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21 hours ago, rh2600 said:

What? So what RobG said wasn't true…

What wasn't/isn't true?

Dubai is a dictatorship, it's been ruled by the same family for 186 years. Almost all significant aspects of Dubai government are controlled directly by the familly, e.g. the police force is controlled directly by the current ruler, Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum. It's outside the federal system employed by other members of the UAE.

Dubai has a questionable human rights history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai

As part of the UAE, it's a major oil producer (though Dubai itself doesn't produce much petroleum any more):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

The "E" in ETNZ (Emirates) is a member of an industry that is a "disproportionate contributor" to greenhouse gases: https://davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/air-travel-climate-change/

If the above is irrelevant to whether or not Emirates is an ethical choice as a sponsor, then why does it matter for INEOS?

I have no love for either Emirates or INEOS, but for some here to infer that one is an ethical sponsor of sailing and the other isn't is either disingenuous or hypocritical.

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50 minutes ago, RobG said:

What wasn't/isn't true?

Dubai is a dictatorship, it's been ruled by the same family for 186 years. Almost all significant aspects of Dubai government are controlled directly by the familly, e.g. the police force is controlled directly by the current ruler, Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum. It's outside the federal system employed by other members of the UAE.

Dubai has a questionable human rights history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai

As part of the UAE, it's a major oil producer (though Dubai itself doesn't produce much petroleum any more):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

The "E" in ETNZ (Emirates) is a member of an industry that is a "disproportionate contributor" to greenhouse gases: https://davidsuzuki.org/what-you-can-do/air-travel-climate-change/

If the above is irrelevant to whether or not Emirates is an ethical choice as a sponsor, then why does it matter for INEOS?

I have no love for either Emirates or INEOS, but for some here to infer that one is an ethical sponsor of sailing and the other isn't is either disingenuous or hypocritical.

Rob I 100% agree with what you say above...

To be clear, Jazhelmet had suggested I needed a sense of humour when asking for evidence of your earlier assertions of hypocrisy amongst ETNZ fans (assuming I was included), he implied you were just joking/trolling/winding me up and didn't really mean what you said... which I don't think was the case... fair enough...

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35 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Precisely! 

Thank you

giphy.gif.1a58d7157194c1f4456d1483144ece77.gif

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To be clear, you are just being a bit of a cunt now ok?  Your back peddling is incredible though 

 

to go from nope, Emirates has nothing to do with the region and they are wonderful (I am paraphrasing)  to fully agreeing with with Rob who has more eloquently written What I was getting at. 

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3 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

To be clear, you are just being a bit of a cunt now ok?  Your back peddling is incredible though 

 

to go from nope, Emirates has nothing to do with the region and they are wonderful (I am paraphrasing)  to fully agreeing with with Rob who has more eloquently written What I was getting at. 

Sigh...No mate... the proposition I argued with was you suggesting Emirates is primarily focussed on Dubai as a tourist destination (just like British Airways promotes Dubai too FFS!) and that's why it's contaminated... Only an idiot wouldn't be aware of ICD's ownership of Emirates... in that regard it is contaminated... I've never said it wasn't... 

But to fair it's not surprising you are incapable of understanding the nuances here... Suggesting I said anything close to Emirates being wonderful is fucking laughable... I might be a cunt, but I'm glad I'm not a dumb one...

iggy ftw!

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Now Now, don’t tell lies, it was need a clew that mentioned  Dubai not me

As for ownership of Emirates? you even said the name was coincidental! 

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I am not sure I was the first to mention Emirates the airline in recent squabbles but I did do linky to ownership by Dubai govt. Have to have linky, learned that from SA.

 

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I mentioned Emirates, Blokey said it was all coincidence with the name and the region, people provided evidence to disprove that 

he got in a huff and blocked me. Never mind 

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22 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

Aww shucks do I? I doubt it as I don’t ride and my only cycling knowledge is of a very cheaty American, and Team GB generally smashing the shit out of everyone at the Olympics and world champs.  

please tell me you are one of those  disproportionately outraged cycling “fans” that can’t stomach Ineos taking over the team? 

 

Not really. I hoped Brailsford and Froome under Sky got hit by a bus (metaphorically) and I hope the same for them as Ineos. Beyond the sponsorship they are a repulsive individuals.

Emirates also sucks, though I am flying them this week because they are my only option to Dubai without a Europe layover.

At any rate, they are all equally problematic. You sound like a Sky fan because of your histronics.

 

17 hours ago, Monkey said:

 

I’m an American Magic fan

I'm sorry.

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12 minutes ago, doghouse said:

Not really. I hoped Brailsford and Froome under Sky got hit by a bus (metaphorically) and I hope the same for them as Ineos. Beyond the sponsorship they are a repulsive individuals.

Emirates also sucks, though I am flying them this week because they are my only option to Dubai without a Europe layover.

At any rate, they are all equally problematic. You sound like a Sky fan because of your histronics.

 

I'm sorry.

Pretty sure that 99% of highly successful Individuals In sport or business have some less than appealing caracher traits. I think we can both agree on that? 

 

as for the American magic fan quote?

 

your reply genuinely raised a smile

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8 minutes ago, JALhazmat said:

Pretty sure that 99% of highly successful Individuals In sport or business have some less than appealing caracher traits.

Pretty big gap between some less than appealing character traits and being an actively terrible human like those two clowns.

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19 minutes ago, doghouse said:

Pretty big gap between some less than appealing character traits and being an actively terrible human like those two clowns.

Hey now; 'people are bad' is a great excuse for never calling anyone bad

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3 hours ago, JALhazmat said:

I mentioned Emirates, Blokey said it was all coincidence with the name and the region, people provided evidence to disprove that 

he got in a huff and blocked me. Never mind 

Nope the record is clear above for anyone who bothers to read - you said Emirates was called Emirates primarily to promote UAE it as a tourist destination, I said it was called Emirates for the plainly obvious reason it is a UAE company and was purely co-incidental in terms of promotion UAE as a destination. That's why their slogan is 'Fly Emirates' not 'Fly To Emirates'. 

Again, the simple notion that you think anyone couldn't realise Emirates is called Emirates because its a UAE company demonstrates the limits of your cognitive ability, not others. 

That you'd continue to put these words into someones else mouth, even after they never said it, and repeatedly explained that to you, makes you either dumb, or as you put it so eloquently a cunt, or perhaps both...

You're on iggy, that's under my control so I'm still able check in from time to time and ensure you aren't continuing to make baseless claims about me... ;-) But I'll definitely avoid get entangled in such nonsense conversations that you seem so keen to entertain.

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On 3/26/2019 at 9:27 PM, blunderfull said:

First World Colonialism.

’We know what’s good 4U.’

Ho humm....

What's wrong with Human Rights?

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R2d2 you couldn’t stay away could you ;-) 

so any comment about me not being the one mentioning Dubai or you want us to ignore your little lies ? 

So you still maintain it’s coincidence about the name? How is is coincidental? 

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3 hours ago, doghouse said:

 

I'm sorry.

I appreciate the sympathy, I’d much rather that S&S had AM’s funding and early start, but it is what it is. They’ll be like France was to me last time, the loveable underdogs. 

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So for sure probably this Cup we have EmiratesTNZ, Ineos Team Frack, Half-American/Amway Magic, Prada Team Racist Ads, and Team Ad Hoc.  

Anyone nostalgic for just a Team Obnoxious Egomaniac Cheating Billionaire or two?

Just kidding.

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 5:22 PM, Monkey said:

 I’d much rather that S&S . 

Christ man, that's 10 times worse, and I have friends in that camp. If you were making a poster if why America deserves to be eliminated from the planet Mike Buckley would be who you put on the poster.

 

I just don't see how anyone can be enthused by any of these entities. This whole thing is a massive joke. I know people on several of the teams, and wish them nothing but success, but as an event this thing is a farce. It either needs to be a billionaire pissing contest, a contest of nations, or a fully professional enterprise like shitheel Larry and Russell were pushing. What we have now is neither fish nor fowl and doesn't mean anything.

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30 minutes ago, Hemi said:

The test boat has lost its deck spreaders. Suspect they might now have a D section mast and twin skin mainsail..

Not sure that it has.....

Low res picture - but there is a structure - resembles a vang strut at first - but from its tip I believe you can make out a stay that that travels to the hounds.

Anyone else???

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About 110 degrees to the wind, centered main, not really flat jib, which means they are far from max speed, but it is a small boat.

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34 minutes ago, Boink said:

Not sure that it has.....

Low res picture - but there is a structure - resembles a vang strut at first - but from its tip I believe you can make out a stay that that travels to the hounds.

Anyone else???

Oh yeah, you're totally right re: deck spreaders. Damn, here I was thinking I had a good eye..

That said, I think it is a new mast (has a much more distinctive taper than earlier mast) and judging by the number of woolies, this could suggest it's twin skin main..?

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The main observation is that they have copied the mule stripe pattern. How much faster is it with 3 stripes on the jib and 4 on the main?

They could also have cameras both sides of the boat and use the stripes to help measure the profile in between the 2 skins.

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1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

V. Nice. 

 

From INEOS’ FB page. 

B5A28974-B211-4C27-9529-6AB346A2C2D5.jpeg

It's the pueblo of my parents in law indeed!

 

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Ineos is already thinking about diversion so that nobody notice they are sailing with both foils into the water.

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I might be fanning the flames of a conspiracy theory here but it was first thought when I saw the advert;

Is it not pretty rare to have to publicise vacancies for this kind of position in an AC team?? You'd think the network of existing riggers in the game (just like boat builders, sail makers, hydro engineers) would have filled these spots by word of mouth..?

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^^^^

Very possibly they are just arse covering themselves - by advertising publicly they eliminate any messy or costly proceedings when a candidate doesn't get selected and goes formal with a complaint. By having a publicly accessible process it is much easier to "prove" that the most suitable candidate was selected - even if that one sucessful candidate happened to be the person earmarked from the outset....

Very common in corporate circles - so nothing new here.

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They also advertised for a chef a while back, didn't they? 

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Once upon a time, so long ago that jobs were still advertised in newspapers,  I asked HR why they paid for a large expensive advert for a job that only 3-4 people in the world were qualified to do.  Can't you just phone them? The answer: yes of course we've already agreed with someone that the job is theirs. The advert is so that when we ask for a work visa for them, we can demonstrate there is no suitable candidate in the UK.

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33 minutes ago, barfy said:

^ standard work visa requirement

Good point, but it's not a nationality thing (sailors only), and surely riggers would be on a contract basis, for the cup cycle. It might be exacerbated by Brexit?

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3 hours ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Good point, but it's not a nationality thing (sailors only), and surely riggers would be on a contract basis, for the cup cycle. It might be exacerbated by Brexit?

Don't you still require a temp work visa to do contract work in a country where you have no status?

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2 hours ago, barfy said:

Don't you still require a temp work visa to do contract work in a country where you have no status?

Probably, but that job wouldn’t need to be advertised. My experience suggests that they would only advertise if they were *employing* someone without a long term visa/residency instead of a local. 

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I bow to your reasoning, unlike most shit talk here there's probably a real answer.

So the ad is to foster nationality in the shore team then...

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54 minutes ago, barfy said:

I bow to your reasoning, unlike most shit talk here there's probably a real answer.

So the ad is to foster nationality in the shore team then...

Can’t we just say that no one wants to work for them and they’re getting desperate?

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On 4/14/2019 at 9:19 AM, Ex-yachtie said:

Can’t we just say that no one wants to work for them and they’re getting desperate?

I Wouldn't go that far, but its easy to see this line of reasoning. 

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6 hours ago, Raptorsailor said:

I Wouldn't go that far, but its easy to see this line of reasoning. 

 

On 4/14/2019 at 5:19 PM, Ex-yachtie said:

Can’t we just say that no one wants to work for them and they’re getting desperate?

That's not entirely fair.  They did see the need to write "no Interns"

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Here is a link to the video on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQtQWx3rnM

This is scary, the boat is up on it's foil and the boat just flips over as it suddenly heads into the wind.  This is more than the unstable behavior that we had heard about when the hull is in the water.  

There are some interesting comments along with the video from Miles Moore.  Here is one he says in particular:

"....I will say I know a guy on the inside of this whole monohull foiling development and he says it's not going well at all, and some of the crew for these boats are having big time second thoughts about getting on one. A few really think they should have stuck with the cats if foiling is the path. Just look at all the stuff they are having to do to just get the big monster monohulls to foil, so much more money than ever before to make it happen. Their first plan was to have the starboard and port foils to be ballasted, but are find that creates to many problems with to much drag and breaking foils. They get rid of the ballast then they become way to unstable. Plan was to have the windward foil out of the water when heading upwind, but now that plan is not working so the plan now is to leave all the foils in the water. They are also thinking of putting outriggers on to give the boat more stability (as you can see in the video), basically creating a trimaran set up....."

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45 minutes ago, Herfy said:

I know a guy on the inside of this whole monohull foiling development and he says it's not going well at all,

AM's experience with the Mule seems to contradict everything this guy contends. The issues they're having with mini-frack look more to it being a bodgy surrogate, rather than dismissing the concept. I just hope the Brits are on a competitive development path. Mini frack suggests they're already arsing it up. Lets hope that's not the case.

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3 hours ago, Herfy said:

Here is a link to the video on Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVQtQWx3rnM

This is scary

Also the comment from the spy boat, in maybe a kiwi accent, their getting a bit high there, oh, that's gotta hurt.

Almost a year ago herf, search back in time and comment back there maybe?

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7 hours ago, barfy said:

Also the comment from the spy boat, in maybe a kiwi accent, their getting a bit high there, oh, that's gotta hurt.

Almost a year ago herf, search back in time and comment back there maybe?

It was the first time I had seen the video, didn't know it was from that long ago.  

It is still scary, we hope they are doing much better and AM does seem to have a better handle on it.

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1 hour ago, Herfy said:

It is still scary, we hope they are doing much better and AM does seem to have a better handle on it.

As I was saying at the time it seems that they sometimes gets too much lift and it throws the boat on the other side. As it's not a cat they fall heavily. I guess that may happen to any team if the lift is not perfectly controlled.

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