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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Sportboat Jeff

The Official consolidated MASS SHOOTING thread

334 posts in this topic

 

 

Cocaine is a prescription drug.

 

Wanna try again?

What percentage of illegal cocaine trafficking is prescription cocaine?

Who cares? I can buy cocaine pretty much anywhere in America without much effort. People make and import it illegally and some is illegally diverted from the legal market. Either way, I can get it. Just like I can get marijuana. Prohibition of unregistered guns would work the same way, as you said.

 

Meaning, not work.

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Cocaine is a prescription drug.

 

Wanna try again?

What percentage of illegal cocaine trafficking is prescription cocaine?

Who cares? I can buy cocaine pretty much anywhere in America without much effort. People make and import it illegally and some is illegally diverted from the legal market. Either way, I can get it. Just like I can get marijuana. Prohibition of unregistered guns would work the same way, as you said.

 

Meaning, not work.

It matters because you all are comparing unregulated drug dealing with prescription drug dealing, comparing that with how gun regulations will be effective. If the percentage of illegal cocaine manufacturing vs. legal manufacturing in illegal trafficking is insignificant, the same could be applied to the effectiveness of gun regulations on illegally manufactured guns vs legally manufactured ones.

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I'm in Canada, (obviously) We have gun laws and regulations, and registration. No problem.

 

But guess what, with a big fist full of dollars, any non-law abiding person can buy pretty much any gun they want.

 

Its too late to change, the horse left the barn long ago, nothing stops bad guys with cash from buying a gun...

 

That's the reality of our age, just get used too it, or get your own gun.

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I've lived in Hell-A for a half century. You live in the sticks. Trust me, I know a thousand times more about drugs than you'll ever know about flying, sailing or even fucking. Combined.

 

Bet on it....

Are you a current drug dealer? The market has changed a lot since the Reagan administration. Just Say No!

 

 

Oh shit! And for all these years I thought she was yelling 'Just Say Blow!'......

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Illegal drugs guns, ones manufactured illegally, would be very difficult to control with a registry.

 

And you think it would be any harder to smuggle guns into the country than illegal drugs are?

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^Trust me^, 'illegal' prescription drugs (at least here in Hell-A) are easier to get than herpes or a f'ng parking ticket. And our two 20-somethings will gladly testify to that....

 

Your two 20 somethings have Herpes and parking tickets? Wow, where did they get a parking ticket from? ;)

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I'm in Canada, (obviously) We have gun laws and regulations, and registration. No problem.

 

But guess what, with a big fist full of dollars, any non-law abiding person can buy pretty much any gun they want.

 

Its too late to change, the horse left the barn long ago, nothing stops bad guys with cash from buying a gun...

 

That's the reality of our age, just get used too it, or get your own gun.

 

 

Tell Ed how your attempt at a long gun registry worked out up there, would you?

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Illegal drugs guns, ones manufactured illegally, would be very difficult to control with a registry.

 

And you think it would be any harder to smuggle guns into the country than illegal drugs are?

 

 

Smuggling coal to Newcastle.

 

We have hundreds of millions of them here, many unregistered, and I know of at least a few that will stay unregistered. Then there are the available machine tools, 3-D printers, and examples of homebuilders such as Mr. Stewart (of US v Stewart, remanded to 9th Circuit in 2005).

 

Yes, we could still get them from other countries, just as we do with drugs, but we're quite capable of making (and hiding) them here.

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I'm in Canada, (obviously) We have gun laws and regulations, and registration. No problem.

 

But guess what, with a big fist full of dollars, any non-law abiding person can buy pretty much any gun they want.

 

Its too late to change, the horse left the barn long ago, nothing stops bad guys with cash from buying a gun...

 

That's the reality of our age, just get used too it, or get your own gun.

Just the same as the UK, its a shit load easier to get something illegaly with a load of cash rather legally and on a budget.

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I'm in Canada, (obviously) We have gun laws and regulations, and registration. No problem.

 

But guess what, with a big fist full of dollars, any non-law abiding person can buy pretty much any gun they want.

 

Its too late to change, the horse left the barn long ago, nothing stops bad guys with cash from buying a gun...

 

That's the reality of our age, just get used too it, or get your own gun.

Just the same as the UK, its a shit load easier to get something illegaly with a load of cash rather legally and on a budget.

Isn't that the case with any commodity?

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And let's not forget one of the most important aspects of these 'killing sprees'....anyone intent on going on a suicide mission (Lanza, the Columbiners, this black guy, V-Tech, the Texas clock tower guy, the Luby's shooter...et al), will never, EVER give a flying fuk about any laws we have on the books.

 

Ever.....

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And let's not forget one of the most important aspects of these 'killing sprees'....anyone intent on going on a suicide mission (Lanza, the Columbiners, this black guy, V-Tech, the Texas clock tower guy, the Luby's shooter...et al), will never, EVER give a flying fuk about any laws we have on the books.

 

Ever.....

Absolutely true. Which is why we need laws to prevent them from getting their weapons. Its not them we need to prosecute, its those who provide them weapons.

 

The perp who sold Lanza's mom the Bushmaster just got pinched.

http://articles.courant.com/2013-09-30/news/hc-gun-sale-1001-20130930_1_riverview-gun-east-windsor-gun-shop-nancy-lanza

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I'm in Canada, (obviously) We have gun laws and regulations, and registration. No problem.

 

But guess what, with a big fist full of dollars, any non-law abiding person can buy pretty much any gun they want.

 

Its too late to change, the horse left the barn long ago, nothing stops bad guys with cash from buying a gun...

 

That's the reality of our age, just get used too it, or get your own gun.

Just the same as the UK, its a shit load easier to get something illegaly with a load of cash rather legally and on a budget.
Isn't that the case with any commodity?
And by further restricting them, you'll turn them even further into?.........

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I'm in Canada, (obviously) We have gun laws and regulations, and registration. No problem.

 

But guess what, with a big fist full of dollars, any non-law abiding person can buy pretty much any gun they want.

 

Its too late to change, the horse left the barn long ago, nothing stops bad guys with cash from buying a gun...

 

That's the reality of our age, just get used too it, or get your own gun.

Just the same as the UK, its a shit load easier to get something illegaly with a load of cash rather legally and on a budget.
Isn't that the case with any commodity?
And by further restricting them, you'll turn them even further into?.........

More expensive illegal items?

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And let's not forget one of the most important aspects of these 'killing sprees'....anyone intent on going on a suicide mission (Lanza, the Columbiners, this black guy, V-Tech, the Texas clock tower guy, the Luby's shooter...et al), will never, EVER give a flying fuk about any laws we have on the books.

 

Ever.....

Absolutely true. Which is why we need laws to prevent them from getting their weapons. Its not them we need to prosecute, its those who provide them weapons.

 

The perp who sold Lanza's mom the Bushmaster just got pinched.

http://articles.courant.com/2013-09-30/news/hc-gun-sale-1001-20130930_1_riverview-gun-east-windsor-gun-shop-nancy-lanza

I guess the lights really dim here.. you just don't get it, laws dont prevent people from doing something they will do anyway.....

 

hello earth to Ed, laws make little or no difference to criminals and bad guys, because they dont give a fuck....

 

If your a law abiding citizen then yes, you will, probably, follow the rule of law, to the letter.. maybe...

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So then no laws are needed. Any law is going to be broken by those who don't give a fuck and those who do give a fuck won't do anything wrong anyways. So why have any laws?

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So then no laws are needed. Any law is going to be broken by those who don't give a fuck and those who do give a fuck won't do anything wrong anyways. So why have any laws?

 

 

So that you 'Progressives' can go to bed at night, thinking you've cured all of America's ills....

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Same law, that keeps that guy, from stealing that, big clear, easy to see, glow in the dark, bag of cash money you keep on your front porch,

 

No ones gonna take that... there's a law.....!

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Statistics Canada data show that just 4% of long guns involved in homicides were registered.

96% useless, and a price tag that ballooned out of control, with accompanying corruption.

 

What's not to love?

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Laws? Needed?

when people can develop a sense of community and respect for one another, laws sort of go by the wayside.

i don't need someone to tell me murder and theft are against an explicit law. i already know that implicitly.

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Laws? Needed?

when people can develop a sense of community and respect for one another, laws sort of go by the wayside.

i don't need someone to tell me murder and theft are against an explicit law. i already know that implicitly.

So we have one vote to repeal all laws. Anyone else?

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>Statistics Canada data show that just 4% of long guns involved in homicides were registered.

96% useless, and a price tag that ballooned out of control, with accompanying corruption.

 

What's not to love?

 

One of the most expensive wastes of tax dollars in Canada....

 

Just think what all that money could have done if properly used anywhere else.

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I'm in Canada, (obviously) We have gun laws and regulations, and registration. No problem.

 

But guess what, with a big fist full of dollars, any non-law abiding person can buy pretty much any gun they want.

 

Its too late to change, the horse left the barn long ago, nothing stops bad guys with cash from buying a gun...

 

That's the reality of our age, just get used too it, or get your own gun.

Just the same as the UK, its a shit load easier to get something illegaly with a load of cash rather legally and on a budget.
Isn't that the case with any commodity?
And by further restricting them, you'll turn them even further into?.........
More expensive illegal items?

Almost there, but not quite.

 

More expensive LEGAL firearms!

 

Did you read my post about it being cheaper and (easier) to buy an illegal weapon than a legal one?

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Is there someplace in America where the War on Some Drugs is working and it's difficult to impossible to find the various illegal drugs?

 

If so, where?

I think the war on prescription drugs is fairly effective. Rigidly controlled source and distribution channels. ...

 

 

Rigid control.

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Is there someplace in America where the War on Some Drugs is working and it's difficult to impossible to find the various illegal drugs?

 

If so, where?

I think the war on prescription drugs is fairly effective. Rigidly controlled source and distribution channels. ...

 

Rigid control.

Good try, not even looking at that link.

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Laws? Needed?

when people can develop a sense of community and respect for one another, laws sort of go by the wayside.

i don't need someone to tell me murder and theft are against an explicit law. i already know that implicitly.

So we have one vote to repeal all laws. Anyone else?

i think you missed the important bit.

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It was suggested on another thread that more Training should be included in the list of things needed for better gun control. As I said, I am not opposed to training. But how does that prevent or reduce mass shooter events from occurring?

 

From a safety aspect, I wholeheartedly endorse training requirements. But I fail to see how that is included in gun control efforts. Do we really want to make the mass shooters a better shot? kill more people? Again, what does training have to do with gun control?

It does the same thing as any gun control: makes it harder for people to legally own guns.

 

In Chicago, for example, they required training, but prohibited training facilities in town. They also prohibit guns on public transportation. To exercise your right to own a gun, you had to have the means to travel out of town repeatedly for training.

 

The courts saw the obvious problem with such a rule and it went away, but the general purpose was (and is) not to train better and safer shooters, but to find ways to make the training more and more difficult to obtain and to pass, making it harder for people to legally own guns.

 

Any little thing that can be done to make legal gun ownership harder will be attempted.

 

I'm not with you on this score.

 

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

 

To many Militia means the National guard i.e. government. To myself and many gun owners it means a citizen army that is the last defender of freedom against tyranny.

 

Given the revolutionary experience that is the context surrounding the writing of the constitution the latter meaning is self evident.

 

Still "well regulated" isn't just rhetorical fluff and I take that to mean that there was to be a framework of laws "regulating" this right. We all know that none of our rights is an absolute. The obvious example of yelling fire in a theater. We also know that some rights can be lost through due process for felony convictions, mental incapacity etc.

 

I think demonstrating gun safety is not a high burden to the free exercise of my right to bare arms. It would improve safety and I think reduce crime and random violence. Maybe you think that last phrase is nuts but allow me to explain. There is a behavioral fact known to psychology that assigned responsibility is an effective way to modify bad behavior. The smart principal who takes the bully aside and says "Sol I can tell you are a tough no nonsense kid and we have a new student that I'm afraid is going to get picked on. Would you take on the responsibility to help protect him? I don't mean physically but just let it be know that he is under your protection. Thanks I knew I could count on you"

 

I've sat in on a number of various gun classes and the very best of these do a great job driving home the point that in practice carrying a gun is less a right and more of a responsibility. A responsibility to keep and handle the gun safely. The responsibility that you may one day have to draw that gun in defense, the responsibility to other gun owners not to make their lives more difficult because you made news using your gun inappropriately.

 

I'm not saying this will eliminate the problem but it could moderate it to a degree.

 

You are correct that hoops and hurdles designed to discourage ownership are wrong but passing a safety course and background check every five years is not unreasonable. Gun ownership is a right and a responsibility. Taking the time to teach people that fact is not a wasted exercise.

 

In general, I've learned to ignore gun threads, they just end up pissing me off, and some like that. In particular I usually ignore Happy's threads, well, you know.

 

However, this was one of the best written gun responsibility comments I've seen.

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Ironically, the failure of you or others to respond to my follow up to that post tells me that I'm right not to trust any "training" regime designed to correct the assumed schoolyard bully mentality of gun owners.

 

Jack,

 

Hamilton said in Federalist 29 that the project of ensuring that the entire militia be at all times "well regulated" was impossible.

 

I doubt you are correct that your gun control idea would be any more effective than others at reducing violence. I think we would wind up training the same kinds of people who bother to get concealed weapons permits. The kind who commit crimes at a very low rate already.

 

Now let us ask Spatial and Mitch a question: would you be OK with every five years, or should it be more frequent? Annual? Monthly? Weekly? Daily? At some point, do frequent checks start looking like an infringement to you?

 

As usual, I want to hear what kind of gun control would NOT be "common sense" gun control, but would be excessive...

I doubt anything looks like an infringement on rights to those who just plain don't like the rights in question. The silence confirms it. Prove me wrong. Post a requirement that would be so unreasonable that it would be an infringement.

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Since this is the consolidated mass shooting thread, I have been pondering this question....

 

What is different between now where mass shootings (while still statistically insignificant in the overall murder rate) seems to be becoming more and more common when they were practically non-existent even a couple of decades ago? What is different now that wasn't present back in the 60s, 70s and even early 80s. It wasn't until the 90s and Columbine did the mass shooting craze really kick off. Maybe we can even go back as far as 86 for the 1st "going postal" event.

 

The guns themselves are not anymore lethal than they were in the previous decades, so that's not the issue. Plus they are WAY more restricted now than they were back then, so lack of regulation is not the problem either. So what is it? What changed?

 

Is it:

  • Decline in mental health care
  • overuse of psychotropic drugs for children
  • Violent media (TV, movies, music, gaming, etc)
  • Poverty
  • Social media
  • 24/7 news cycle glorifying mass murders - spawning copycats
  • Social isolation
  • broken homes
  • lack of community
  • nomadic society
  • Breakdown of social mores
  • poor education

I'm sure I'm missing stuff. Serious question tho.... what's different?

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The guns themselves are not anymore lethal than they were in the previous decades, so that's not the issue. Plus they are WAY more restricted now than they were back then, so lack of regulation is not the problem either. So what is it? What changed?

The advance of semi-automatic weapons available to the general public has exploded since the mid 80s. Modern CNC manufacturing methods and advanced materials have allowed very tight tolerances giving us very complex and reliable weapons at a fraction of the cost. Not until this point was the average citizen able to afford more than a few of these weapons. Now, people like yourself are able to create personal arsenals.

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The guns themselves are not anymore lethal than they were in the previous decades, so that's not the issue. Plus they are WAY more restricted now than they were back then, so lack of regulation is not the problem either. So what is it? What changed?

The advance of semi-automatic weapons available to the general public has exploded since the mid 80s. Modern CNC manufacturing methods and advanced materials have allowed very tight tolerances giving us very complex and reliable weapons at a fraction of the cost. Not until this point was the average citizen able to afford more than a few of these weapons. Now, people like yourself are able to create personal arsenals.

 

 

Also, there are just more cunts around.

 

(someone had to say it)

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The guns themselves are not anymore lethal than they were in the previous decades, so that's not the issue. Plus they are WAY more restricted now than they were back then, so lack of regulation is not the problem either. So what is it? What changed?

The advance of semi-automatic weapons available to the general public has exploded since the mid 80s. Modern CNC manufacturing methods and advanced materials have allowed very tight tolerances giving us very complex and reliable weapons at a fraction of the cost. Not until this point was the average citizen able to afford more than a few of these weapons. Now, people like yourself are able to create personal arsenals.

 

 

Also, there are just more cunts around.

 

(someone had to say it)

When faced with indisputable facts, the nutz go all cunt on ya.

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