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WCW

What is the new Velocitek they are teasing?

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Looks like the put a light in... hooray!

 

Yes, I'm a Velocitek fanboy...

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Yeah- I understand the helmsman has to wear it on his chest..

 

It has a large blue hammer like device attached to it (out of frame on the picture) called a "shift".

 

If the helmsman doesn’t tack when the display indicates a favorable veer/back of the breeze....

 

The "shift" pounds the helmsman senseless until he tacks the boat.

 

For reaching legs the bow man wears it and everyone has a laugh...

 

I'm a bit worried about battery consumption.

 

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Yeah- I understand the helmsman has to wear it on his chest..

It has a large blue hammer like device attached to it (out of frame on the picture) called a "shift".

If the helmsman doesnt tack when the display indicates a favorable veer/back of the breeze....

The "shift" pounds the helmsman senseless until he tacks the boat.

For reaching legs the bow man wears it and everyone has a laugh...

I'm a bit worried about battery consumption.

😂😂😂😂😂

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I've been interrogating the Velocitek guys in the sales and service departments hoping I could get some info. They don't all work from the same location so I was hopeful they might not be all on the same party line....

 

 

Best I can discern is that they all agree that the new unit is not a replacement for the existing product line like when they made the S-10, SC-1 to the Pro Start progression. The new unit is supposed to complement the ProStart and SpeedPuck. So SOG and COG won’t likely be selling points. I see a lot of ProStarts mounted just above TackTick boxes. Given that Raymarine has taken TackTick over and how much it would tweak me to see somebody else’s product next to mine, I’m guessing that’s where they may be headed, ahem, headed. But can’t get a confirm or deny from them.

 

 

Another guess is that they used to be big on VMG calculations (S-10 and SC-1) but there was too much lag in the data, especially for boats that plane. I’d like to have that back.

 

 

They would confirm that the unit has lighting and have assured me they carefully considered the battery life of the unit and it will not be a problem. I also got unanimous confirmation that they have pioneered software that knows if it is installed on a 4ktsb and rolls the display over to DOWN THE SHAFT if the data indicates speed better than 6 kts.

 

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Cn we please have it where the display isn't fucked up by wearing sunnies please??

 

P.s. this is not an invitation for a discussion on the best sunnies to use with velocitek...

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Cn we please have it where the display isn't fucked up by wearing sunnies please??

 

P.s. this is not an invitation for a discussion on the best sunnies to use with velocitek...

 

If your sunglasses are polarized (as most of us use) its going to be a challenge to give you a display that is not fucked up by wearing them...

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LCD displays work by polarization so there will be an angle where the sunglasses make the display background go as black as the numbers. The trick is to get the angle of polarization of the sunglasses and the display aligned such that they don't interfere. This can also be influenced by how you tilt your head. This is a common problem so if Velocitek ignored it and used the wrong angle of polarization in the old display, they should be able to fix it.

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I have found with one set of prescription polarized lenses that some screens turn black. Tilting head or rotating the offending screen 90 degrees usually solves the problem.

 

I wonder if the local lens grinder could create the lens at the correct rotation so this didn't happen.

 

Are all off the shelf sun glass lenses cut at the same rotation? Could trying on various pairs till you find the right rotation solve this problem?

 

How much does it cost to replace the lenses so you get the correct lens rotation out of the box?

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Off the shelf sunnies (Kaenon for the record) and it's not just the head tilting thing. There's weird rainbow coloured lines across the screen, just like when someone stands on my plexiglass coach roof hatch, like stress lines. Are they all like this or have I got a duffer?

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You kind of need the polarisation to lay along the horizontal otherwise you don't get the benefit of reduced glare from horizontal surfaces.

 

I've given up on polarised lenses as suddenly realised I only do sports with LCD screens!

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You kind of need the polarisation to lay along the horizontal otherwise you don't get the benefit of reduced glare from horizontal surfaces.

 

So the sunglasses are fixed which means it is up to the display makers to insure compatibility. You should be able to hold your head straight and read a display. I think gas stations have dealt with this and Velocitek should as well.

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If you see rainbows in the LCD through your polarized lenses, this is indicative of a relatively low quality covering over the display. Perhaps plastic instead of a nice quality glass. Could be part of the display or something the manufacturer of the device put on top.

 

I have always wondered if circularly polarized sunglasses could be made...

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you mean like this type of lense:

 

http://www.getfpv.com/polarized-lens-for-layerlens-for-gopro-3-1pcs.html?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=productsearch&adtype=pla&gclid=CIfuxI2U9LkCFUFepQodyjkA5A

 

for a gopro. I remember them for camera lenses way back when I was interested in stuff (and had my own OM1).

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Cn we please have it where the display isn't fucked up by wearing sunnies please??

 

P.s. this is not an invitation for a discussion on the best sunnies to use with velocitek...

 

If your sunglasses are polarized (as most of us use) its going to be a challenge to give you a display that is not fucked up by wearing them...

 

This has been covered and there is an option that works with polarized sunglasses http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=149916

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If you see rainbows in the LCD through your polarized lenses, this is indicative of a relatively low quality covering over the display. Perhaps plastic instead of a nice quality glass. Could be part of the display or something the manufacturer of the device put on top.

 

I have always wondered if circularly polarized sunglasses could be made...

 

 

A "nice quality glass" like this?

 

post-4331-0-31206400-1380650269_thumb.jpg

 

 

The iPhone uses top-shelf Corning Gorilla Glass.

 

There are up- and down-sides to most product decisions.

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Here's the latest-

 

I now am led to believe that there is no user input required with the new unit. So I think that wrecks my VMG guess. I'm also told that there were at least 2 prototypes at the J70 NAs. I have also determined that it was not on Muse. Anybody got any peeps who were at the J70 NAs?

 

In other news after a violent response from lake sailors the "down the shaft" over speed readout will be eliminated in favor of, "on the trailer" if the unit is on a 4ktsb and not near salt water. Also, I understand that FoxConn is denying all rumors about employee depression resulting from the pressure to produce enough of the new units. If I read the memo correctly the employees were depressed when they found out they were not picked to be on the elite team producing the new unit... I think that makes it ok, um, right?

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I'm going with a competitor to the TackTick. Maybe with Bluetooth or some other tech so it talks to the Prostart.

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Yep- I think I was off base with the VMG stuff.

 

I hope they have a mount that will fit both the new box and the ProStart in my current bracket.

 

None of us have a friend at the J70 NAs who would have seen it??

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see there apparrel :

 

http://store.velocitek.com/Shift-Detail?sc=7&category=496

 

Look like a OD class legal tacktick compeditor. Don't know more than there website states:

 

To bad I don't have de Do to buy this one. Wil continue to use mij SC10 not OD legal in my class.

 

Shift

  • Intuitive shift-tracking with large buttons for storing port and starboard reference headings.
  • High-accuracy, inertially-stabilized magnetic compass.
  • Does not use GPS or any other radio signals; One Design class-legal.
  • Same easy-to-use countdown timer as the ProStart.
  • Solar powered with 100+ hour battery reserve.
  • Red LED backlight protects night vision.

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Posted · Hidden by MR.CLEAN, October 29, 2013 - No reason given

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Posted · Hidden by MR.CLEAN, October 29, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by MR.CLEAN, October 29, 2013 - No reason given

 

Unfortunately, Mauri is breaking a non-disclosure agreement: http://www.velocitek.com/nda

 

They do not have any inventory and, as described in the agreement, they will not be getting any inventory for the next 12 months. As a result, we cannot recommend ordering the Shift from Mauri.

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Posted · Hidden by MR.CLEAN, October 29, 2013 - No reason given
Hidden by MR.CLEAN, October 29, 2013 - No reason given

 

 

Unfortunately, Mauri is breaking a non-disclosure agreement: http://www.velocitek.com/nda

 

They do not have any inventory and, as described in the agreement, they will not be getting any inventory for the next 12 months. As a result, we cannot recommend ordering the Shift from Mauri.

That's mean-spirited. I think you'd be better served to work out any problems with your resellers in private.

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wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed

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Holy shit! $699!?!

 

Does look pretty slick though... I'll stick with logging compass readings until there's a used one for $200 or someone writes the same app for my phone...

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wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed

 

+1

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wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed

 

Both the Tacktick Micro ($459) and the Tacktick Race Master ($850) are essentially floating card compasses with a digital wrapper.

 

If you take one apart, you will find a magnet floating in a bulb of fluid.

 

The Shift by comparison has no moving parts. It uses a 3-axis solid-state gyro and a 3-axis accelerometer to digitally gimbal a 3-axis magnetometer. This approach is common in aerospace applications but it has not been used in a self-contained sailing instrument before.

 

The result is better accuracy, better tilt-compensation and a better dynamic response. The instrument responds more quickly when your heading actually changes while at the same time being more stable when you are sailing a steady course.

 

Here's Bora describing what this feels like in practice

 

 

The Shift also has much bigger numbers and a more practical user interface than either Tacktick compass.

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Hey, all I need is big numbers and accuracy- sounds like a better deal than a regular sized tacktick racemaster-type. (I hope)

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i like the size of the digits compared to the $800 Racemaster. It seems to do everything the Racemaster does but better, with the big caveat that it won't take and display NMEA inputs or a bluetooth knot meter.

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I understand it gives headers and lifts to the reference heading. But what if you tack? Does it then use ANOTHER reference angle (that you put in in the practice runs)? Or do you need to do that after every tack?

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wouldn't appear to do anything that the Tactick Micro compass doesn't do - ie gyro compass and countdown, except twice the price.

 

Shame I was hoping they would have put the gyro compass into a prostart, which is what is really needed

Yeah, everybody now has a prostart and a micro (or racemaster). would be nicer if it was all rolled into one....

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The point was to have something that would be legal across all platforms, which means no GPS. good news is that the PS and Shift look good stacked up one atop the other. I assume Alec has a dual-mount somewhere in development or already built?

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I understand it gives headers and lifts to the reference heading. But what if you tack? Does it then use ANOTHER reference angle (that you put in in the practice runs)?

 

Yes, that's exactly how it works.

 

The Shift stores two reference angles, one for port and one for starboard. The device shows lifts and headers relative to the reference angle for the tack you are on.

 

The big blue button on the right side of the Shift is for storing your starboard tack reference angle and the one on the left is for storing your port tack reference angle.

 

You would typically use these buttons to store reference angles for both tacks during your pre-race practice beat but you can also hit either button to reset a reference angle whenever you feel like it.

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is there some kind of remote

 

There is no remote but the instrument is not something you need to be fiddling with all the time. Just set your two reference angles pre-race (1 button press for each tack) and you're good to go.

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Being quite a guy, I am willing to trade Velocitek my fine quality Sailcomp 103AC system with junction box, fluxgate sensor, keypad, et al, for their new Shift and a bracket :) Heck, I'd do the same for Clean or Scooter.

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A remote watch would be very helpful. Especially on a big boat meter style boat where the instrument is at the mast and the tactician is in the back working the runners and chatting with the helmsman. The gyroscrope prevents you from wrist mounting it like you might with a gps unit...

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anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?

Dont bother with a single screen you won't be able to read it from trapeze unless its mounted on the end of the pole out of reach.

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Dear Mr Velocitik man, thanks for replying here....

 

1. Can you put the solid state gyro compass that you are using in a pro start please? Or can you at least start planning to do so.....then one with depth!

2. The tacktick micro compass is only £220 here in UK, so only $350, so yes, half the price of your new piece of kit.....I have never felt there was any issue with the accuracy of the tacktick micro, certainly not compared to trying to use the GPS based compass on the pro start - which can be 30 degrees different to the Tacktick in tidal waters....

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Dear Mr Velocitik man, thanks for replying here....

 

1. Can you put the solid state gyro compass that you are using in a pro start please? Or can you at least start planning to do so.....then one with depth!

2. The tacktick micro compass is only £220 here in UK, so only $350, so yes, half the price of your new piece of kit.....I have never felt there was any issue with the accuracy of the tacktick micro, certainly not compared to trying to use the GPS based compass on the pro start - which can be 30 degrees different to the Tacktick in tidal waters....

 

The GPS compass in the ProStart shows Course Over Ground - the direction your boat is moving. A magnetic compass, like the Shift or the Tackticks, show heading - the direction your boat is pointing. Heading and COG can be very different in areas with lots of current, like the UK. COG will also factor in the leeway of your vessel.

 

In factory default mode, the GPS compass in the ProStart displays heading in degrees true. The Shift, Tackticks, and other magnetic compasses display heading in degrees magnetic. The difference between degrees true and degrees magnetic is magnetic declination. Magnetic declination varies by location. The difference between your ProStart and a magnetic compass should be close to your local magnetic declination.

 

Here's how to enter magnetic declination into a ProStart:

  1. Turn on ProStart
  2. Press and hold RESET button for 5 seconds
  3. Press PIN button (triangle icon) to enter a negative declination or subtract degrees or RC button (square icon) to enter a positive declination or add degrees
  4. Press the GUN button twice to return to Start or Race mode

Here are a couple helpful resources for setting magnetic declination in your ProStart:

 

What is my local magnetic declination?

 

Is my local magnetic declination negative or positive?

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We have both, a ProStart and a TackTick Racemaster. Both are nice products. The ProStart has much better human factors.

 

We like the big digits and speedo on the Prostart. Don't use the Distance to Line much anymore at all. Hate the GPS-based 'compass'

 

We like the actual (fluxgate) compass of the Racemaster, and lift/knock indicator. Don't like the split display on a bigger boat.

 

Like the start timer of both, Prostart easier to set, use, and see, but you loose compass in sequence.

 

 

So net-net, its Velocitek's take on the Racemaster. Nice but not good enough to make me bin the RaceMaster. Could use it alongside the Prostart but then tons of duplicated functionality. I might actually buy a new ProStart plus with the solid state compass built in. As for now, I'll sit this one out. Nice product however if you are starting from scratch.

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anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?

 

Here's a simple rotating bracket someone made for the tornado: http://www.velocitek.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=503

 

A bracket like this will work for the ProStart or the SpeedPuck but unfortunately not for a magnetic compass like the Shift. A magnetic compass, needs to stay lined up with the axis of the boat.

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This looks really good. I love my ProStart, and I would consider adding the Shift.

 

However, mounting is still an issue on my Viper 640 and other sportboats. I currently use a TackTick dual instrument mount, with one RaceMaster bracket plate with some custom screw holes to attach my ProStart bracket below my RaceMaster. It works fine but is heavier than needed and not optimized.

 

I would love to see Velocitek come up with a dual instrument bracket/mount that I can put around my Viper mast and secure with a couple of velcro loops. It would need to be offset from the mast for gnav, cunningham, and spin halyard to run cleanly.

 

Actually, I also have a custom carbon dual instrument bracket that I could drill holes in, but I haven't gotten around to it. I would be happy to buy a purpose built solution from Velocitek.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

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New product is aimed towards classes that don't allow GPS and sailors who are mathematically challenged . Lol

:D Even if you're good at math it's nice to be able to offload low-level arithmetic and memorization tasks to a machine so you can focus on more important things like boatspeed, tactics, sail trim, rig tune, etc...

 

Having fewer things to keep in your head also makes it easier to play chess and think a few steps ahead of the competition.

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V-tek: Looks very nice. Congratulations on providing some real competition to the Tactick Micro and Racemaster. The replaceable battery is a huge bonus relative to those devices.

 

I think the legalizer label is a bit of a literal band-aid. Why not put a switch inside the battery compartment that disables the shift feature? This would be much more difficult for someone to do on the water if one was trying to be dishonest.

 

Also, can you explain why the cost is so high relative to the Pro Start? Seems like without a GPS this would be lower material cost.

 

Thanks for your time.

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Oh damm, that is dead sexy!

 

Happened to be up with insomia at 3am SoCal time, and dropped an order on Mauri Pro. Can't wait till it arrives.

 

I'm very glad I kept5 my brand-new-in-box Tacktick, in the box. Already shipped it back to Mauri for a refund.

 

Would have liked a lower price point.

 

I also have a Prostart - do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

Thanks Velocitek!

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Oh damm, that is dead sexy!

 

Happened to be up with insomia at 3am SoCal time, and dropped an order on Mauri Pro. Can't wait till it arrives.

 

I'm very glad I kept5 my brand-new-in-box Tacktick, in the box. Already shipped it back to Mauri for a refund.

 

Would have liked a lower price point.

 

I also have a Prostart - do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

Thanks Velocitek!

 

Thanks!

 

I think the best solution for a Viper is to screw the offset bracket (see http://www.velocitek.com/shift/accessories#offset) directly to the mast with self-tapping screws. This will give you a solid connection to the rig and keep the Shift at a constant orientation relative to your boat.

 

The little holes you make should not be a big deal compared to the halyard exits, etc...

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V-tek: Looks very nice. Congratulations on providing some real competition to the Tactick Micro and Racemaster. The replaceable battery is a huge bonus relative to those devices.

 

I think the legalizer label is a bit of a literal band-aid. Why not put a switch inside the battery compartment that disables the shift feature? This would be much more difficult for someone to do on the water if one was trying to be dishonest.

 

Also, can you explain why the cost is so high relative to the Pro Start? Seems like without a GPS this would be lower material cost.

 

Thanks for your time.

 

Thanks for your post. I'm glad you think it looks nice!

 

The legalizer label was the most simple, easy to explain solution we could think of for disabling shift tracking. Our focus in choosing this solution was less on the Shift owner and more on pacifying the other people in the Shift owner's fleet who might be uncomfortable with electronics to begin with. Our hope is that the simplicity and high-visibility of the label will make it uncontroversial, even in fleets that are very unenthusiastic about technology.

 

The higher cost relative to the ProStart is the result of several different factors:

 

Expensive components the ProStart has that the Shift does not:

  • GPS chip

Expensive components the Shift has that the ProStart does not:

  • 3-axis accelerometer
  • 3-axis gyroscope
  • 3-axis magnetometer
  • 900 mAh lithium polymer battery
  • backlit LCD
  • solar panel
  • cast acrylic lens (for better compatibility with polarized sunglasses)

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Being quite a guy, I am willing to trade Velocitek my fine quality Sailcomp 103AC system with junction box, fluxgate sensor, keypad, et al, for their new Shift and a bracket :) Heck, I'd do the same for Clean or Scooter.

Well, if you'd like to donate your old falling apart 103AC display to a poor sailor, let me know ;)

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I also have a Prostart - do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

I'm not drilling for a bracket on my mast. I've had my instruments get bumped around too many times.

 

Find Luke Porter on the Viper 640 forum and order a carbon bracket from him. You'll have to drill your own mounting holes and might need the bulkhead standoffs or the low-profile bracket for the Shift. I'm finally going to put mine to use if I get a Shift. It was a little narrow for my RaceMaster, but will fit the ProStart and Shift together.

 

http://forum.viper640.org/index.php?topic=1310.0

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Oh yeah, I bought me one of those brackets, gonna dig it out of the boxes in the back of my boat-truck.

 

Hhmm, looks like I'll need those stand off doo-dads. Time to email the boys at Mauri!

 

 

 

I also have a Prostart - do you guys have an equally sexy bracket optimized for the mast of a Viper 640?

 

I'm not drilling for a bracket on my mast. I've had my instruments get bumped around too many times.

 

Find Luke Porter on the Viper 640 forum and order a carbon bracket from him. You'll have to drill your own mounting holes and might need the bulkhead standoffs or the low-profile bracket for the Shift. I'm finally going to put mine to use if I get a Shift. It was a little narrow for my RaceMaster, but will fit the ProStart and Shift together.

 

http://forum.viper640.org/index.php?topic=1310.0

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Mr Vtek,

 

Can you make a version of the SW for the ProStart that disables the GPS compass display? If a guy want to run both units, having the two sets of (different) heading/course numbers can be distracting. Maybe find something ELSE to display????

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That's an interesting idea but, to be honest, we're not super keen to change how the ProStart works. From a technical support perspective, it's really nice that all ProStarts work the same way and everybody understands how they work.

 

Also, there is actually some value in being able to see heading and COG at the same time.

 

Here's a quote from Tim Healy of North Sails One Design (2 x J/24 World Champion) on how he uses the Shift together with the ProStart on a J/70:

 

"In the J/70 we can use the Shift with the ProStart which gives you Course Over Ground, which is a nice comparison to have in a place with a lot of current. You can see your heading and course with current and when you cross a current line and it changes drastically you know what direction the current is going. It helps you a lot."

 

To do this you need the local magnetic declination set on your ProStart (see http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=151453#entry4368130).

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This basically means the display can't be seen from trapeze. It's a big problem with the speedpuck (I have made a mould for a rotating mount, so I can see it before I buy one) and an obvious benefit of the tacktic which has a display on each side.

 

One idea I had was to screw a speedpuck to a bracket in front of a gopro.. for after race viewing :-/

 

 

anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?

 

Here's a simple rotating bracket someone made for the tornado: http://www.velocitek.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=503

 

A bracket like this will work for the ProStart or the SpeedPuck but unfortunately not for a magnetic compass like the Shift. A magnetic compass, needs to stay lined up with the axis of the boat.

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Wireless display/control module to be mounted on a movable bracket or forearm might be a solution.

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Everyone who has ever looked at a tactic and watched it bounce when you are going straight needs to give this thing a try, total game changer

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On our F18, similar when we had a tornado, we mount our puck ahead of the forestay but before the the entrance to the snuffer (with a small bungie from the top of the forestay chainplate, over the top of the mount, to the spin pole to block spin sheets from wrapping the mount). This is almost far enough forward to be seen by the crew from the trap, if not wearing polarized glasses.

 

Now, since GPS is not allowed in the F18 class... we have been playing with the dual display tactic... much better solution... for us. Would love to have a prostart mounted on each side of the boom... but $$$$

 

 

 

This basically means the display can't be seen from trapeze. It's a big problem with the speedpuck (I have made a mould for a rotating mount, so I can see it before I buy one) and an obvious benefit of the tacktic which has a display on each side.

 

One idea I had was to screw a speedpuck to a bracket in front of a gopro.. for after race viewing :-/

 

 

anyone have a solution for mounting this (or the prostart for that matter) on a F18 - within reach - ?

 

Here's a simple rotating bracket someone made for the tornado: http://www.velocitek.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=503

 

A bracket like this will work for the ProStart or the SpeedPuck but unfortunately not for a magnetic compass like the Shift. A magnetic compass, needs to stay lined up with the axis of the boat.

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That's an interesting idea but, to be honest, we're not super keen to change how the ProStart works. From a technical support perspective, it's really nice that all ProStarts work the same way and everybody understands how they work.

 

Also, there is actually some value in being able to see heading and COG at the same time.

 

Here's a quote from Tim Healy of North Sails One Design (2 x J/24 World Champion) on how he uses the Shift together with the ProStart on a J/70:

 

"In the J/70 we can use the Shift with the ProStart which gives you Course Over Ground, which is a nice comparison to have in a place with a lot of current. You can see your heading and course with current and when you cross a current line and it changes drastically you know what direction the current is going. It helps you a lot."

 

To do this you need the local magnetic declination set on your ProStart (see http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=151453#entry4368130).

 

I get that for sure. Less help on inland lakes and low current/tide areas, where the 3-5 degree difference is leeway and pretty much always there.

 

The separate SW version would be more work to support I agree, but would give people (like me) that own a ProStart a reason to get off the fence. As it is, both units supply a) Compass, B) timer c) wind-shift (OK the PS is crap at this). Convert the bottom line of the PS to say, speed trends over time, and I would feel less silly buying another expensive box from you that totally replicates the functionality of the last expensive box I bought from you. Everyone wins!

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i like the size of the digits compared to the $800 Racemaster. It seems to do everything the Racemaster does but better, with the big caveat that it won't take and display NMEA inputs or a bluetooth knot meter.

 

and that is the big issue for us in replacing our race master with this. Alan are we sure it doesnt have that?

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Last night, I was having a discussion at the dinner table. We really like the idea of a more stable course heading. We also like the gyro/accelerometer combo. Clearly you have spoiled me with your tech to the point that I want a Prostart with the Shift compass built in for bearing and shift info. I'd pay a pretty penny for that device. The sensor suite has to be able to calculate swing rates on the starting line which would allow for a better distance to line tool. Can I have it by summer?

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Last night, I was having a discussion at the dinner table. We really like the idea of a more stable course heading. We also like the gyro/accelerometer combo. Clearly you have spoiled me with your tech to the point that I want a Prostart with the Shift compass built in for bearing and shift info. I'd pay a pretty penny for that device. The sensor suite has to be able to calculate swing rates on the starting line which would allow for a better distance to line tool. Can I have it by summer?

 

scowlover makes a lot of sense here. I would prefer one well-designed and integrated box.

 

I'd also like my brand-new Prostart to not have issues with polarized sunglasess. At least I'll be able to read the shift wearing them.

 

When will you be revising the Prostart to have the better glass/plastic, like the Shift?

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After sailing with the sc1 and then the pro start for a few years the sunglass thing is what it is. The features of the prostart far out weigh how ridiculous my $5 non polarized shades look. Tell tails, compass, tell tails, speed, repeat. Thats my day. I kind of like the fact that I'm the only one who can see the distance to line function when it really matters too. The crew can wear the fancy glasses as they look up the course.

 

Im excited for the shift that i just ordered. If it is half the improvement that the prostart was over the SC1 I'll be a happy guy. The team at velocitek is on the right path and look forward to whatever they come up with next.

 

How about a handheld radio that lasts more than two seasons or trailer lights that are working when you leave a regatta!

 

Fretz

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I'd rather have a RockBox Blue for the $699.. http://www.rockboxsailing.com/current-products/rockbox-blue/functions/

 

I am using a Tacktick RM and original RockBox... probably get those used for the same pile of cash... more functional.

 

Of course it would be nice to see these ANY of these units get NMEA functionality.

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How does the Shift handle a persistent shift compared to the ProStart? Am I correct in thinking that the PS software automatically re-calculates the mean wind direction over time and thereby the new lifts/headers whereas the Shift depends on the operator setting a new mean wind direction? Does the Shift automatically change to downwind mode?

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How does the Shift handle a persistent shift compared to the ProStart? Am I correct in thinking that the PS software automatically re-calculates the mean wind direction over time and thereby the lifts/headers whereas the Shift depends on the operator setting a new mean wind direction? Does the Shift automatically change to downwind mode?

The reference angle on the ProStart automatically resets every time you tack. When you start sailing in a straight line on the new tack, it locks on to the heading of this straight line and uses is it as the reference angle. Unfortunately, in practice, this doesn't work as well as we had hoped. This is mostly because the automatic process is not transparent to the user. Without knowing exactly what the ProStart is using as a reference angle, it's hard to put your full confidence in the shift indicator.
With the Shift, you get to decide the reference angle and you can reset it whenever you want. The reference angle for the tack you are on is also displayed at the bottom of the screen so you always know exactly what the shift indicator is calculating.
The Shift stores two separate reference headings for port and starboard (set with buttons on the left and right side of the device). This allows the Shift to remember reference angles from tack to tack and from one upwind leg to another. This can be a big help immediately after you round the leeward mark.
Here's a clip of Anthony Kotoun (Melges 32 World Champion) explaining how the stored reference angles can help after a mark rounding:

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To take advantage of wind shifts you would want to tack whenever you are above or below a MEAN wind direction, A typical wind shift pattern would be say oscillations of 15 degrees every 8 minutes. Besides the ongoing shifts you would also get gusts/lulls periodically. So on this typical hypothetical upwind starboard tack if I started at the headed point and sailed as the wind slowly shifted to a lift over 8 minutes my heading would go from say 245 degrees to 260. If I experienced a 30 second gust near the end this run I might get an additional 5 degrees lift to make my heading 265. Depending on when I decided to press the starboard reference angle button I could set the reference angle for the mean direction to anywhere between 245 to 265. In this scenario the mean wind direction is found when my heading is 252. I would benefit from tacking only when my heading was say 5 to 8 degrees above or below that. OTOH if I had pressed the button at the very beginning or the very end of this run I would be told I was being headed/lifted by 8 degrees when I was actually at the mean. Without wind instruments to provide the true wind direction over time wouldn't I have to sail on a tack long enough while watching the heading to determine when I was actually at the mean before pressing the button?

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To take advantage of wind shifts you would want to tack whenever you are above or below a MEAN wind direction, A typical wind shift pattern would be say oscillations of 15 degrees every 8 minutes. Besides the ongoing shifts you would also get gusts/lulls periodically. So on this typical hypothetical upwind starboard tack if I started at the headed point and sailed as the wind slowly shifted to a lift over 8 minutes my heading would go from say 245 degrees to 260. If I experienced a 30 second gust near the end this run I might get an additional 5 degrees lift to make my heading 265. Depending on when I decided to press the starboard reference angle button I could set the reference angle for the mean direction to anywhere between 245 to 265. In this scenario the mean wind direction is found when my heading is 252. I would benefit from tacking only when my heading was say 5 to 8 degrees above or below that. OTOH if I had pressed the button at the very beginning or the very end of this run I would be told I was being headed/lifted by 8 degrees when I was actually at the mean. Without wind instruments to provide the true wind direction over time wouldn't I have to sail on a tack long enough while watching the heading to determine when I was actually at the mean before pressing the button?

 

This is why you still have to be great to win.

 

The thing's cool, but its not Bora in a box.

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i like the size of the digits compared to the $800 Racemaster. It seems to do everything the Racemaster does but better, with the big caveat that it won't take and display NMEA inputs or a bluetooth knot meter.

 

and that is the big issue for us in replacing our race master with this. Alan are we sure it doesnt have that?

we are.

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Nice unit, but no (announced) I/O capability. If you have both the Pro and the Shift you have a $1300 combo who's only logging capability is track info in the Pro. It would have been nice to see the Pro software enable the USB interface to output NMEA and then a similar interface for the Shift. Combining the data streams from the two would have been awesome.

 

I understand the reasons for placing Pro and Shift buttons where they are, but it precludes flush mounting in common cradles.

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I used the shift when sailing on my parents 27ft cruising boat on monday afternoon for a twilight sail and it was very nice to have a simple compass with the reference heading feature that was easy to use while also enjoying talking to other people on the boat.

we were able to sail past bigger and much faster boats upwind using the shifts features and when the light was a bit low we even used the light feature. I look forward to using the shift on the cruising boat and also smaller dinghies in the future!

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Sounds like you were on a nice leisure sail. If I am not racing wind shifts are of no concern and I am not constantly adjusting sail trim for speed. if I want to go fast I simply sail on beam reaches where wind shifts and sail trim are not critical. . If I'm not racing I don't pay much attention to the speed of other boats. Tacking in phase with wind shifts doesn't make you sail faster-it only gets you to a waypoint sooner than you would if you didn't because you are sailing a shorter distance.

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I used a shift at a regatta in mid-November. I have to say, it is TREMENDOUSLY better than a tacktick. The headings are fast and accurate. If you truly sail a small boat by compass headings (IE big or unfamiliar water) and you lock into the numbers, this is a completely better experience. I sail mostly on small lakes, but for those times that I am on big water, I will certainly use both my prostart and shift. Specifically, big lifts, headers, tacks, and gybes get faster (seems like instant) bearings. With a tacktick, it took 5-10 seconds for the bearing to "settle," taking time away from a proper focus on other items in the boat. The shift makes a positive change in my thought process while racing in bigger water. I lets me focus on the boat more while having confidence in my numbers which will add up to better results. My only complaint was that the regatta had one day of exceptionally shifty conditions. We were often going off the top of the scale with the visual shift indicator on both tacks during some lifts. For the record, boats with Shift on board won 5 of the 6 races at the regatta (MC Scow South East Regional).

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It was asked earlier, but not answered. Is there an easy way to identify what the 'reference standard' heading is? Is it just a case of monitoring the course on the practice beat and doing an average or is there an obvious way that I'm missing?

 

 

 

. For the record, boats with Shift on board won 5 of the 6 races at the regatta (MC Scow South East Regional).

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