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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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WCW

What is the new Velocitek they are teasing?

111 posts in this topic

JBSF,

 

1) The ProStart speed is Speed Over Ground and this factors in current (helping and hurting). If you are using target boatspeeds, SOG will be an OK metric in non-tidal waters. However a paddlewheel measuring speed through the water is a better tool for target boatspeeds.

 

2) A magnetic compass like the Shift is a better tool to track wind shifts than a GPS based device like the ProStart. In non-tidal waters you can track shifts using Course Over Ground, but COG also factors in leeway. If your angle of heel increases and your leeway increases, COG based shift tracking will display this as a header.

 

3) No, the ProStart does not try to calculate DW VMG. We used to have a function like that in the SC-1 but we eliminated it for the ProStart. Here's why.

 

4) The ProStart wind shift indicator and COG are more useful when used with a magnetic compass like the Shift to track changes in current.

 

5) Not yet.

 

The Shift pulls its weight. And the ProStart and Shift make a great combo. If you go with the ProStart, adding a Shift is completely worthwhile.

 

Best,

 

Charles

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JBSF,

 

1) The ProStart speed is Speed Over Ground and this factors in current (helping and hurting). If you are using target boatspeeds, SOG will be an OK metric in non-tidal waters. However a paddlewheel measuring speed through the water is a better tool for target boatspeeds.

 

2) A magnetic compass like the Shift is a better tool to track wind shifts than a GPS based device like the ProStart. In non-tidal waters you can track shifts using Course Over Ground, but COG also factors in leeway. If your angle of heel increases and your leeway increases, COG based shift tracking will display this as a header.

 

3) No, the ProStart does not try to calculate DW VMG. We used to have a function like that in the SC-1 but we eliminated it for the ProStart. Here's why.

 

4) The ProStart wind shift indicator and COG are more useful when used with a magnetic compass like the Shift to track changes in current.

 

5) Not yet.

 

The Shift pulls its weight. And the ProStart and Shift make a great combo. If you go with the ProStart, adding a Shift is completely worthwhile.

 

Best,

 

Charles

 

Charles, thank you! That all makes sense, especially the VMG part. I was thinking about using it for training, but I have a Handheld garmin that has VMG and that could potentially be used for that. I totally get why you wouldn't use it in racing. I had never considered the momentum aspect before.

 

Most of the class seems to have gone to the Prostart and are fairing over the older paddlewheel unit in the hull. I'll have to check around to see if anyone is using the Prostart/shift combo.

 

Last question..... I know on many handheld GPS units I've used in the past, the compass and speed lagged considerably. Especially the compass. On the Prostart (2 hz refresh rate, right), how would you compare the heading and speed display relative to a magnetic compass and a paddle wheel type unit.

 

Thanks!

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JBSF,

 

On the ProStart, the display refresh rate is 2 Hz. The GPS is a 4 Hz position update rate.

 

On the Shift, the display refresh rate is 4 Hz. The solid-state sensors (3-axis magnetometer, 3-axis gyro, and 3-axis accelerometer) are taking measurements in real time. Because the Shift is electronically gimbaled by a gyro and accelerometer, it is able to isolate heading and ignore pitch, roll, and other inertial effects. The Shift has no dampening. As a result you won't notice the delay in your heading associated with other stand alone compasses.

 

Compared to the Shift, the ProStart heading may lag a little. However, the ProStart should be on par (or very close to it) with other compasses and paddlewheel boatspeed units which are usually dampened.

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JBSF,

 

On the ProStart, the display refresh rate is 2 Hz. The GPS is a 4 Hz position update rate.

 

On the Shift, the display refresh rate is 4 Hz. The solid-state sensors (3-axis magnetometer, 3-axis gyro, and 3-axis accelerometer) are taking measurements in real time. Because the Shift is electronically gimbaled by a gyro and accelerometer, it is able to isolate heading and ignore pitch, roll, and other inertial effects. The Shift has no dampening. As a result you won't notice the delay in your heading associated with other stand alone compasses.

 

Compared to the Shift, the ProStart heading may lag a little. However, the ProStart should be on par (or very close to it) with other compasses and paddlewheel boatspeed units which are usually dampened.

 

Excellent, thank you. I just need to go down to the boat and try to figure out what mast brackets I need now and if there is room for both. PM is headed your way. Thanks for you help.

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I sold my Race Master to a buddy and bought a Shift. I really like it, and the combo of the two. It took a bit of work to get the brackets mounted to an intermediate nylon rectangle, which was then attached to my carbon mast mount that many of us have in the Viper 640 class.

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I sold my Race Master to a buddy and bought a Shift. I really like it, and the combo of the two. It took a bit of work to get the brackets mounted to an intermediate nylon rectangle, which was then attached to my carbon mast mount that many of us have in the Viper 640 class.

 

Do you have a pic of that mount setup by any chance?

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I sold my Race Master to a buddy and bought a Shift. I really like it, and the combo of the two. It took a bit of work to get the brackets mounted to an intermediate nylon rectangle, which was then attached to my carbon mast mount that many of us have in the Viper 640 class.

 

Do you have a pic of that mount setup by any chance?

 

I'll try to run down and take a few photos today. I also did a sketch for a different mast mount design that I've sent to the Viper sailor who makes these mast mounts. I'll see if I can post that too.

 

BTW, if you buy both for a mounting setup like I describe, you might also want the bulkhead standoffs, or at least some extra nylon spacers from your local hardware store for the back of the Shift mount.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

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I sold my Race Master to a buddy and bought a Shift. I really like it, and the combo of the two. It took a bit of work to get the brackets mounted to an intermediate nylon rectangle, which was then attached to my carbon mast mount that many of us have in the Viper 640 class.

 

Do you have a pic of that mount setup by any chance?

 

I'll try to run down and take a few photos today. I also did a sketch for a different mast mount design that I've sent to the Viper sailor who makes these mast mounts. I'll see if I can post that too.

 

BTW, if you buy both for a mounting setup like I describe, you might also want the bulkhead standoffs, or at least some extra nylon spacers from your local hardware store for the back of the Shift mount.

 

Cheers,

 

jason

 

Thanks, I would definitely be interested in seeing those.

 

As for the shift, what are the extra spacers for?

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Here is my current setup:

 

post-12543-0-17123300-1402286841_thumb.jpg

 

post-12543-0-25361300-1402286842_thumb.jpg

 

post-12543-0-46079700-1402286843_thumb.jpg

 

 

Here is my quick sketch of a custom mast mount that would simplify things:

 

post-12543-0-92560800-1402286839_thumb.jpg

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Just thought I'd add a post for another possible DIY bracket for mounting both the Shift and Prostart together on a solid round mast. In case anyone else is wondering about using the TackTick strap bracket for the Shift, the mount holes do not already line up. You can put a plexiglass rectangle on the TackTick bracket and then attach the Shift bracket to the plexiglass (using the standoffs.) However, the Shift bracket screws just barely clear the outside edges of the Tacktick bracket so there's not enough room to fit locknuts behind the plexiglass. Fortunately, the screws had enough grip that I was able to tighten the Shift bracket and simply put a small dab of thickened epoxy on the end of each one to hold them in place :rolleyes: (A better solution might be to use a thicker piece of plexiglass than I did and tap these holes / use thread locker, but I was too lazy.) Finally, two strips of plexiglass cut and bolted in place hold the two Tacktick brackets together and keep the Shift and ProStart in the same plane. Mounting to the mast uses two velcro straps and works just the same as the single Prostart/Tacktick bracket.

post-91573-0-77257400-1406468950_thumb.jpg

post-91573-0-68305600-1406468957_thumb.jpg

post-91573-0-15589200-1406468961_thumb.jpg

post-91573-0-80826800-1406468965_thumb.jpg

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Here is my quick sketch of a custom mast mount that would simplify things:

 

attachicon.gifIMG_0114.jpg

I have made more complicated mounts than that out of pvc pipe, just cut the pvc to length, cut down the middle heat with heat gun, put around mast, hold to shape, heat overhanging bits and bend to make tabs that are a bit recessed from the mast then when you use bungy loops to connect the front panel, it tightens into place.

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