• Announcements

    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Sea Scouter

I really need some help with Volvo Penta MD2003 overheat.

36 posts in this topic

MD2003, fresh water (closed system)

Tendency to overheat at idle or low R's after about 15 minutes, might not overheat when running >2000 rpm

 

I thought I was handy when...

I flushed the freshwater system... removed gel jizz out of bottom block drain. Flushed 3 times until clear. Refilled with the silicate free stuff.

Nope

R & R heat exchanger with boil out at the hot rod shop

Nope

Changed thermostat

Nope

Ran without thermostat

Nope

Rebuilt fresh water coolant pump. Might have had an air leak

Nope

Flushed again.

Nope

 

PLENTY of raw sea water flow. Engine runs just about as it always has.

 

I need some ideas.

Thank you in advance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

water pump rotor?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the water pump is working and there are no blockages, ( as evidenced by your mention of raw water flow), my next step would be to look for symptoms of a blown head gasket.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm likin' the head gasket...

No evidence of juice in the exhaust but I'll check for bubbling in the reservoir.

It's not a terrible job to pull the head.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had the same motor in my previous boat, we inspected the boat prior to buying.....the owner did a great job of hiding the motor over heat problem.

So.....on the short trip to deliver the boat we had an cloud of steam.....not your same problem but the solution may intrest you.

 

The mechanic talked me through some of the problems .

The water pump rotor would break down every time the motor was run, eventually not pumping water....check this, replace and observe, feel water temp out of exhaust.

The head in my boat was corroded , he even told me about not using different coolants and that the coolant should be changed out every 24 months.

.....I had to replace the head, and lots of the rubber seals.

I found a site that had some good info....google the problem using the motor name and brand......find a good mechanic.

 

After the fix, the motor ran like a charm and served us well. Hope this helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wrong impellor fitted probarly the fresh water one.

Only explains overheat with little water circulating at low revs.

look for obstruction but not blockage in fresh water system otherwise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few clarifications...

 

Really two systems, right? Fresh water is really the closed coolant system runing the ethylene glycol stuff. The orther system is the raw water system pumping cool water from the big lake.

 

The closed side pump was inspected and the impeller was in good shape and the 'shells regasketed and sealed with RTV. It's a big inpeller... larger than an automotive type. It is original from 1986.

The raw water impeller has been replaced. PLENTY of water coming out of exhaust.

 

Boat has been in fresh water for it's entire lifetime. I dd notice some silica goo on my first flushing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like you have had fun.....did you do the google thing, you will find your problem in various forms is covered ....have alook.

 

Did you put the heat exchanger back properly with the right gaskets and make sure it was aligned, did you check the exhaust fitting on the engine.

 

Find a mechanic......a good one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MD2003, fresh water (closed system)

Tendency to overheat at idle or low R's after about 15 minutes, might not overheat when running >2000 rpm

 

I thought I was handy when...

I flushed the freshwater system... removed gel jizz out of bottom block drain. Flushed 3 times until clear. Refilled with the silicate free stuff.

Nope

R & R heat exchanger with boil out at the hot rod shop

Nope

Changed thermostat

Nope

Ran without thermostat

Nope

Rebuilt fresh water coolant pump. Might have had an air leak

Nope

Flushed again.

Nope

 

PLENTY of raw sea water flow. Engine runs just about as it always has.

 

I need some ideas.

Thank you in advance.

 

I did all of that, then pulled off the exchanger housing/exhaust manifold. There was a clot of corrosion immediately behind, or in front of the thermostat. You couldn't see it with the coolant pump removed. The clue was using an IR heat gun. The exchanger was running at sea water temp because coolant couldn't circulate through the exchanger, yet the head temp was 215.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had the same problem on a saltwater raw water cooled 2003.

 

There was a plug of scale blocking every one of the connections between the coolant pipes and the engine.

 

May not be an issue on a FWC motor, but I suspect there is a lot of turbulence in those joints between the copper pipes and the block, the ones with the crappy half moon clamps.

 

Was easy enough to take them apart and clean them, there was no scale to speak of inside the block and head.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

check your hose routing

 

A friend of mine bought a used boat this spring that the previous owner had over heating problems over the years. He even installed a larger heat ex changer.

 

Somewhere along the years the hoses containg antifreeze got re routed and zip tied to the overhead above the engine. Made for a tidier look in the engine room but it put a air bubble in the line that got sucked into the centrifical water pump. Well centrifical pumps don't work well with air and it stopped circulating when the air bubble got in the pump. Previous owner made system work by adding extra hose to the filler and adding antfreeze from two feet above which was enough to make the air bubble pass.. Any ways new owner rerouted hoses to normal elevations and all is working fine and no need to prime from up high. Check the routeing of the hoses they need to be at the right level to prevent an air lock///

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is telling you have high temps? Maybe you have a bad gauge or sending unit.

Get a IR gun and check the temp that way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So..have any of the suggestions worked, Where are you Sea Scouter ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was on vacation, and now I'm back.

Next stop will be the IR gun and find out what is really running hot.

To all those who suggested checking the goofy rubber washer gasket connector things, yes, those have ALL been replaced. Do you know that Volvo gets 4 or 5 bucks for those little square rubber washers?

At that time I also poked around in those passages in the block. Best I can tell you is that that the block appears to be more clean than some the of pots and pans in my kitchen.

I think I will also pull the temperature sending unit and test. Don't know how yet but the googles might have some spec for R when sending unit is hot vs. cold. And yes, I have googled the hell out of this problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is telling you have high temps? Maybe you have a bad gauge or sending unit.

Get a IR gun and check the temp that way.

 

VP has a temperature alarm and a sending unit on engines with the "delux" instrument panel. Are you getting both a buzzer and a high reading? I think the factory sender is 10-180 ohm if memory serves. I swapped my original VDO gauges out for Teleflex. Had to change the oil pressure sender but the temp one was the same.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What is telling you have high temps? Maybe you have a bad gauge or sending unit.

Get a IR gun and check the temp that way.

VP has a temperature alarm and a sending unit on engines with the "delux" instrument panel. Are you getting both a buzzer and a high reading? I think the factory sender is 10-180 ohm if memory serves. I swapped my original VDO gauges out for Teleflex. Had to change the oil pressure sender but the temp one was the same.

My thoughts as well......is there steam !!.....if not how do you know it's hot ??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check the head temps with the IR gun. If its hot, trust it. Pull off the manifold/ heat exchanger body and flush it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ran the IR gun and had to stare at the cooling system schema for a while. Here's what... Coolant n3ever really makes it back to the heat exchanger. A decade ago I had a leaky hot water heater and pulled it. In anticipation of replacement I ran a hairpin of 1/2" radiator hose up to the port settee. So, from the coolant pump, to the setee and back to the pump is the first route of the hot coolant. Except it was trapped in a kink and not returning to the pump for it's trip to the heat exchanger.

Thanks to all and the IR gun is also good on cats!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Turns out that I already shortened the hairpin maybe a few years ago. So that's not it. Shit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you haven't done this yet you need to inspect/replace any multi-ply cord reinforced hose in the system. The inner wall can collapse causing a flow restriction at low rpm//pump pressure. As rpm increases it opens back up. This problem baffled me once to the point I couldn't in good conscience charge the man the amount of time I spent scratching my noodle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

10142.jpg

 

Start taking it apart. Thermostat first, hoses (there aren't many rubber ones here anyway), heat exchanger and then waterpump. I recall hearing somewhere that the aluminum impeller in the waterpump used on these can crumble apart after years (electrolysis or something?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No not many hoses except OP also has a run going to a future water heater. And there's still the raw water side.

 

10142.jpg

 

Start taking it apart. Thermostat first, hoses (there aren't many rubber ones here anyway), heat exchanger and then waterpump. I recall hearing somewhere that the aluminum impeller in the waterpump used on these can crumble apart after years (electrolysis or something?)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No not many hoses except OP also has a run going to a future water heater. And there's still the raw water side.

 

If it is plumbed properly this should not matter. Line should run from the water pump (Part #8 on the diagram) to a plug on the cylinder head near the thermostat. Flow can be on or off, and the cooling circuit will function the same. I ran a hydronic cabin heater for years like this off my engine with a ball valve inline to adjust heat output. The engine didn't care if the heater was full on or off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an easy fix. Take the raw water hose, and plumb it to the raw water pump on a Yanmar. When the Yanmar is finished with it, you can run it through your Volvo and it will keep it warm.

 

You're welcome.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Yanmar is the best suggestion yet. God has a Yanmar in his old yawl.

On a more serious note, I'm going to block off the hose at '8' where the hairpin is presently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate this engine so bad. It does not return the love and tenderness that I have shown it over the years. I am back in that bitch it today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't understand why anybody puts a Volvo in a boat. Their parts prices are so insane that they are the stuff of legend. Just read a story of a guy in Britain who needed a new heat exchanger for a small Volvo 4 cyl. diesel - it was 2700 pounds ($4300 US) - for a small heat exchanger!

 

He had one custom made for about 10% of that price.

 

Do they sell the crate engines cheap to get you hooked or something?

 

To me, a Volvo in a boat would be a deal killer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?

Do you think I went back in time and convinced the first owner to get a Volvo knowing that I would seek a frustrating challenge a few decades later?

Volvo ignition key switch.....$240.00. Borg Warner....$18.00.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Really?

Do you think I went back in time and convinced the first owner to get a Volvo knowing that I would seek a frustrating challenge a few decades later?

Volvo ignition key switch.....$240.00. Borg Warner....$18.00.

 

I think you missed my point. I've seen & heard so many stories & experiences like yours that;

 

To me, a Volvo in a boat would be a deal killer.

 

I wouldn't have bought the boat in the first place unless it needed a new engine and was priced accordingly.

 

Sorry I can't offer any advice to fix you up but you do have my sympathy FWIW. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Don't despair (it doesn't help).

 

MD2003 is not FWC as such, the FWC has to be added. Do you know when it was mounted?

 

Did you state that the boat has always been on lakes and similar - then there was not an urgent need to add the FWC from beginning, maybe? If the engine was without FWC for some years that may have resulted in salts etc builing up inside in the now freshwater system.

 

In any case, the most likey source to the overheating issue is somewhat narrow cooling channels on the freshwater side (I have read that you have been running some solution, it may take some, but probably not all. In my experience ...mechanical removing is best). Consider to do some tests on the freshwater flow, or dismounting heat exchanger etc.

 

Far from being a VP fan, in spite of living in Volvo-land, but the 2003 is not bad. Much more modern than the comparable Yanmar 3GM30F (which I have now, no problem ... reliable and so on, but old design).

 

Best of luck

 

J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey its the turbo model?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the schematic, no it is not turbo ... The turbo-like thingy is the coolant pump.

 

However ...

 

We're it turbo, there is a coolant line from the turbo to the t/stay housing that T's to the HX. Inside that line, between the turbo and the T is a plug with an orifice. This plug can become dislodged and plug the T causing overheating. To fix, remove the line, remove the plug, slightly - really slightly - crimp the line between the turbo and T nearest the T and reinstall the plug, then the line.

 

Best of luck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Solved///

 

TAG: Volvo Penta 2003, overheat problem, heat exchanger

 

 

When I reassembled the heat exchanger, I rotated the inlet plate (part 27 & 28) 180 degrees. That caused the engine coolant (closed side) to take a very short path in and out of the heat exchanger, just a tiny 'u' of flow. When rotated to the correct position, the engine coolant is forced through a labyrinth of baffles (double pass) running parallel with the tube bundle, i.e., the big long 'U'. Remarkably, the solid piping lines up pretty well even if the end plate was rotated out of position.

 

From start to finish

Engine overheated in idle.

Flushed engine and had the HE dipped.

Engine flush returned silicated snot out of bottom drain

HE did not really need to be removed but... in for a dime, in for a dollar.

Reassembled HE incorrectly

1 year of misery

Rotate inlet/outlet end plate.

Engine runs at 170 degrees and holds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats! May you enjoy many engine hours (OK, that was overdoing it :blink: )

 

/J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

thanks for the final note - too often no one comes back with what they found to be the euraka moment and the solution to their problem!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites