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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Bob Perry

My new custom Jim Betts aluminum peapod

199 posts in this topic

 

Tom:

Sure I would be very interested. But I'm talking about rocks. Do they operate airboats in rocky shore areas? When I see them on TV they are always flying over marshy shorelines. We don't have marshy on my beach.

 

They try to avoid hard surfaces, but I have seen my neighbor go across his shell driveway and another guy drove his airboat right up a concrete boat ramp. The coatings have to be pretty tough to stay when blasting through sawgrass, but I have no idea how they would really hold up for your use.

Thought they used catfish gland system I hear Oracle used the idea in the previous AC on the Monster. The tough coatings these days all seem to be grippy vs hard and slick. The coating needs to be flexible enough to let the aluminum flex when being beached without cracking and breaking the coating also. But 120lbs a simple big wheeled cart which after beaching and unloading, you slide it up on the cart then Bob does his best Ox beast of burden imitation and wheels it up above the high tide line.

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tls:

Those are valid points. I have been wonderimg the same thing. But we have a new program that has reduced the length of the darts so we are happy with that. I'll discuss this with Betts. Betts will know best.

 

As for a sailing rig, we have already discussed that and at some point in time it is inevitable. But not now and not for me now. It's not my idea of a good sailboat shape. It's a rowing shape. Nice square topped main ?

 

Talking to my buddy and seing his wheelbarrow beach dolly hybrid I'm not worried at this tme baout getting the boat up and down the beach. At higher tides the trip could be 8' or less Right now it would be 4'. At lower tides the trip could be 50'.

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tls

Not all origami boats need to have darts. But they are shaped in such a way that would be hard to compare to the peapod Bob is talking about.

 

post-32003-0-14069700-1381431244_thumb.jpg

 

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tls

Not all origami boats need to have darts. But they are shaped in such a way that would be hard to compare to the peapod Bob is talking about.

 

attachicon.gif272R-03.jpg

 

This is a cool boat, but why is that consider origami? That seems to be built like any other metal boat with a chine in the bilges. I think I may not be clear how origami differs from other build techniques. Is it because the skin is forced into some limited compound curves, rather than sticking strictly to conic sections?

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tls:

No each panel is conical. The entire skin is not. That's where the darts some in.

I'll know more when we have done it. I'm new to this method. It's just another adventure in boatbuilding.

Are there other ways to do it? I suppose but this is the method I have chosen for my boat.

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OK, guess I better ask before the question sounds even more stupid...

 

What are darts?

 

Besides pointy things thrown by drunks, I mean.

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Darts:

 

1. Pub missles.

2. Sharp objects tossed around in kung-fu movies.

3. A mediocre car by Dodge.

4. The act of moving quickly.

5. The stinger of an insect.

6. A verbal jab (I think this is an accepted usage)

7. A tapered cut or fold sewn into a garment to adjust the fit or alter the shape.

 

Number 7 is most appropo to the building technique for Bob's new boat.

 

Ok, I get to go home now. And, yes, that was the most fun I had all day (one of those days).

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Darts. In fact this is origami dress making. See how the top dart and the lower dart don't meet?

 

Kelley_darts.jpg

 

that pucker is the problem in the metal case.

 

Aircraft makers have dart-like puckers where the pilothouse windows fit into the English Wheeled fuselage. Frankly, I think the sexier thing to do is to use an english wheel and make a proper double-curved hull. I have a friend who builds cars--I think I need to do this :-)

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Jim Betts is in Anacortes. He's an old friend. He is very, very good with alu.

Here is a little project I did with Jim, WILD HORSES.

she is in Bainbridge Island and I LOVE this boat! I wish I had one like her so I could take her to the 7 seas!

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Darts:

 

1. Pub missles.

2. Sharp objects tossed around in kung-fu movies.

3. A mediocre car by Dodge.

4. The act of moving quickly.

5. The stinger of an insect.

6. A verbal jab (I think this is an accepted usage)

7. A tapered cut or fold sewn into a garment to adjust the fit or alter the shape.

 

Number 7 is most appropo to the building technique for Bob's new boat.

 

Ok, I get to go home now. And, yes, that was the most fun I had all day (one of those days).

Not all Dodge Darts were mediocre,

post-27422-0-11834900-1381452567_thumb.jpg

It also had a sliding seat, just saying...

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OK, guess I better ask before the question sounds even more stupid...

 

What are darts?

 

Besides pointy things thrown by drunks, I mean.

 

 

Darts is a dressmaking term I think. Valid term for what we are dealing with here. A term that I relate to better for some reason is 'gores'. I think that the tapers that are used to create hot air balloons are called gores. Darts and Gores are probably much the same thing and just names that two different industries have come to use. Bob and I can probably just call these carefully considered tapered cuts into the alum plate anything we want, how about 'Fudge Factor Lines'? Whatever you call them they will allow a fabricator to simply pull the widening seam closed and tack weld it together as the shape gets 'closed up'.

 

http://www.apexballoons.com/tips/

 

I'm trying to reduce the length of welded edges and make the nature of the origami method more of a factor. The original model had the seams going to within 6 or 8" of the stems, not much point to doing the common panel of an origami boat when a few more inches of cut to the ends would cut down on waste. Good points in the past few posts and these are issues I'm trying to address. The trick to pulling cut files off of these 3d models is how the very subtle transitions as the panels fold to an unbroken surface at the bow and stern where the skin meets the stem and stern posts. Bob and I have been exploring the application of an unfolding program called 'Lamina'. It lets one set a value as to where surfaces become tangent and let me adjust just how far the cut and weld lines extend towards the ends of the panel. Whether or not this hull is worth pursuing via the 'origami' boat building technique is not longer our biggest concern. The priority is to get Bob his boat built and in the water for his enjoyment and our consideration and then we will be more happy to try and add your wishes. I'm wanted to start the ply version soon but until we get Betts cutting and grinding on Bob's boat...

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In case you don't know, Rasper ( Rasputin aka Jody Culbertson) is the guy doing the hard work on making the boat come to life. I have been working with Jody on another project and we work well together. Afer that sleepless night when the idea of the peener pod came to me the first thing I did in the morning was to call Jody. By noon I was getting images before he had received my own drawings. We are kind of like the Everly Brothers. But we get along. I sing the high part.

post-2980-0-58985500-1381453779_thumb.jpg

post-2980-0-44232400-1381453793_thumb.jpg

post-2980-0-51541600-1381453814_thumb.jpg

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Glad I could provide the entertainment Casc.

 

Bob, your posts are usually entertaining or informative.

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Darts:

 

1. Pub missles.

2. Sharp objects tossed around in kung-fu movies.

3. A mediocre car by Dodge.

4. The act of moving quickly.

5. The stinger of an insect.

6. A verbal jab (I think this is an accepted usage)

7. A tapered cut or fold sewn into a garment to adjust the fit or alter the shape.

 

Number 7 is most appropo to the building technique for Bob's new boat.

 

Ok, I get to go home now. And, yes, that was the most fun I had all day (one of those days).

Not all Dodge Darts were mediocre,

attachicon.gif212285_87562ff0ff_low_res.jpg

It also had a sliding seat, just saying...

 

Well, if it had a sliding seat...

 

Although I'd much rather have a Molteni badged Colnago. Something in the 62 cm size in a track bike would do nicely.

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Jeezus Casc!

We're talking about Popeye here!

 

Sliding seat my ass.

That is a really stupid image, i.e,. Popeye on a sliding seat.

Next you will want him to turn his har around to reduce windage.

Frontal area my ass.

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Hey Bob

 

Here's a highly scientific demonstration of the slickness of a product called Wearlon Wetlander Top Coat

 

 

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In case you don't know, Rasper ( Rasputin aka Jody Culbertson) is the guy doing the hard work on making the boat come to life.

 

What are you (Rasper?) using for those renderings? Is there a CAD program that lets you set the surface textures, lighting model, and focal distance? Are you taking the CAD files into a specialty rendering program? They are tres slick.

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The new program is Lamina.

Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

 

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

post-2980-0-45287800-1381493033_thumb.jpg

post-2980-0-98139500-1381493044_thumb.jpg

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In case you don't know, Rasper ( Rasputin aka Jody Culbertson) is the guy doing the hard work on making the boat come to life.

 

What are you (Rasper?) using for those renderings? Is there a CAD program that lets you set the surface textures, lighting model, and focal distance? Are you taking the CAD files into a specialty rendering program? They are tres slick.

You must be referring to the Catari renderings. The modeling is done in Rhino3D and I was using a standalone renderer called Octane when those were done. Since then, Octane has developed render plugins for a number of CAD softwares, Rhino3d just recently. This allows me to have the Octane render window linked directly to the Rhino model and it updates in near realtime to changes in the model. Before I had to use an exporter that would prep the model and materials and export as an obj to Octane and then rendered in the standalone. The plug-in is a big improvement and you will see the PeaPod rendered in it soon.

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Jeezus Casc!

We're talking about Popeye here!

 

Sliding seat my ass.

That is a really stupid image, i.e,. Popeye on a sliding seat.

Next you will want him to turn his har around to reduce windage.

Frontal area my ass.

 

Popeye? Well, crap, I think I need a can of spinach. (Is there anything worse than canned spinach?) And I did say "usually", Bob, not always. Frankly I think the themed names will get old fast. Kind of like all the coffee based BS names swirling around various scripting and programming crap a decade ago.

 

And I think your ass would only be frontal area when in reverse. Yeah, I think that's right...

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Casc:

Theme names? That's just personal choice, not a requirement. What a silly idea. Not sure a boat like this even needs a name.

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I'm gonna be late for work because I read every word of this thread all the way through. I normally skim everything I read, and I tried here, but I kept going back to read every single word...

 

I grew up spending summers in Maine on a rocky beach. We had a wooden Jimmy Steele peapod and a shitty little fiberglass dinghy. If the peapod had been alu, we would have used it much more. We had a "pull off line" to keep them in the water. And we often waded in to keep the peapod off the rocks.

 

The boat looks great, Bob. And oh how well it will work! If I had a rocky beach, I would be choosing "Sea Hag" for mine.

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The new program is Lamina.

Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

 

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

pretty soon you'll load it in the 3d printer and voila! (at least for the 1/2 model)

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The new program is Lamina.

Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

 

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

pretty soon you'll load it in the 3d printer and voila! (at least for the 1/2 model)

 

How long is it going to be before a hull can be done by one of those 3D printers? Those things and those renderings are freakin' magical to an old fart.

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The new program is Lamina.

Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

 

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

Wow!

It has a diving board too!

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The new program is Lamina.

Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

 

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

pretty soon you'll load it in the 3d printer and voila! (at least for the 1/2 model)

How long is it going to be before a hull can be done by one of those 3D printers? Those things and those renderings are freakin' magical to an old fart.

Essentially by exporting cad files to machine tools and carving a female mold with it, we are just about there. You could hog out a hull, complete with framing, turn it over and cut the outer mold line now. You would need one hell of a large, high quality blank to start with but the tech is there to do it.

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heres a hull male mold being carved

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TvQGIj3EBEY

 

 

 

 


The new program is Lamina.
Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

pretty soon you'll load it in the 3d printer and voila! (at least for the 1/2 model)

How long is it going to be before a hull can be done by one of those 3D printers? Those things and those renderings are freakin' magical to an old fart.

Essentially by exporting cad files to machine tools and carving a female mold with it, we are just about there. You could hog out a hull, complete with framing, turn it over and cut the outer mold line now. You would need one hell of a large, high quality blank to start with but the tech is there to do it.

heres a video of a male mold being constructed that way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TvQGIj3EBEY

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The new program is Lamina.

Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

 

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

pretty soon you'll load it in the 3d printer and voila! (at least for the 1/2 model)

How long is it going to be before a hull can be done by one of those 3D printers? Those things and those renderings are freakin' magical to an old fart.

Essentially by exporting cad files to machine tools and carving a female mold with it, we are just about there. You could hog out a hull, complete with framing, turn it over and cut the outer mold line now. You would need one hell of a large, high quality blank to start with but the tech is there to do it.

Largest C&C machine in the US is over in the Mojave owned by Rutan pretty amazing piece of kit.

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The kids who get 3d Printers for Christmas this year will be our next generation of inventors and engineers. The 3D printer is what the RC models were 20yrs ago. Imagination wasn't really limited by the high cost of trying to build a crazy idea to see if it worked.

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my 8 year old daughter wants one, and wants to hit the Makers Fair. My 10 year old could give a crap when I'm mucking about in the garage, but the 8 year old is out there building wooden trains, etc.

 

Is there a child friendly one? With child friendly control software?

 

 

Should I get one of these gizmos?

 

http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/fabtotum-personal-fabricator

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I'd like that fabricator, makes a lot of sense. The 3 way functionality is great. Buy a PeaPod from Bob and I'll sign up myself for one, Tough to wait til next Aug though...

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i like the idea of the pea pod a bunch, but wood/epoxy. Happy to wait.

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The new program is Lamina.

Jody uses Orca but I'll let him tell you about his variety of programs.

 

Here are a couple more of his rendering for our 62' ketch curently being built by Pacific Seacraft in North Carolina.

pretty soon you'll load it in the 3d printer and voila! (at least for the 1/2 model)

How long is it going to be before a hull can be done by one of those 3D printers? Those things and those renderings are freakin' magical to an old fart.

Essentially by exporting cad files to machine tools and carving a female mold with it, we are just about there. You could hog out a hull, complete with framing, turn it over and cut the outer mold line now. You would need one hell of a large, high quality blank to start with but the tech is there to do it.

 

CNC is pretty amazing, especially now that the price has come down so much but it's still just a hot rodded version of old time machining. The 3D printer process is another big step in tech. When it first showed up I recall it was called Rapid Prototyping and was only happening in the auto manufacturers and so forth - now it's damn near desk top for small stuff.

 

"A 3D printer in every workshop" - a high tech replacement for "Two cars in every garage". :D

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I agree. A pod with aluminum thwarts is going to be awfully cold on the cheeks, and that hull, no matter how fine, is going to make lotsa noise in any chop at all. I'll take plank on frame or strip planked in a heartbeat.

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i like the idea of the pea pod a bunch, but wood/epoxy. Happy to wait.

 

Curious to see if there is any point to the "origami method" when it comes to wood/epoxy? I'm not even sure there is a point to it using metal, especially if the hull shape gets distorted for the sole purpose of reducing the length of the welded seams?

 

Some discussion (and images) of a design method here, starting with full chines and then re-orienting the "planks" into a single piece with gaps (darts) that get pulled together:

 

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/design-software/designing-origami-boat-rhino-33787.html

 

Might reduce the need for internal stringers and frames, I guess?

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Willin:

No problemo. It's not your boat. It's mine. Your boat can be wood.

Some of you guys have a hard time grasping the "custom design" process.

I've been at this a while. I understand it thoroughly and in this case I am the client.

 

I'd like it if a lot of you would build the boat in a variety of methods. That would make me really happy.

But I need the alu boat for practical purposes. As I have eplained ad nauseum.

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But this is sailing anarchy, we know stuff better than anyone. We know what your client wants better than you do, even though you are your client. You should get back to working on the titanium and carbon fiber stripped planked version with the sailing rig. Stretched it to 20' as well, only a relic would want to be seen in a 13' row boat.

 

Seriously, I think there is a shocking level of demand for a good looking row boat for use as a tender or beach launch. Almost all of the "row boats" commercially available are actually small power boats that row poorly (and inflatables make shocking poor rowboats).

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Hey! You are giving away all my secrets! Good link, and that topic was very instrumental in my rendition of the PeaPod. I'll post some images soon that shows how through the use of Lamina to generate the cutting and folding pattern, I have greatly reduced the extension of the gores toward the ends of the plate. No use in cutting and welding almost all the way to the stem and stern so by shortening the darts (or gores) it will hopefully force some compounding into the ends of the boat. Lamina has a setting that lets one set the tolerance for the angle between facets of the mesh to adjust the extent of the ends of the darts. Metalworking practice would probably suggest that I put round holes through the plate at the ends of the darts so as to provide stress relief and prevent cracking that would likely result if the plate were drawn shut to the end of a sharp angle. Welding would probably take care of that, but a hole will let the plate close up more cleanly and the hole will get filled in after the tack welding and finish welding of the seams. Much like a plug weld is used. Bob and I are both eager to work out the details with Jim Betts as to the metal construction technique. I've spent hours looking at YouTube videos of amazing sheet metal working processes and tricks. I'm sure that Bob and Jim will ensure that the Primo Peened Pod will be a wonder. With such a tight limit on overall weight I need to really sharpen my pencil and get the exact weights of the metal components.

 

I've got some ambitious side flotation tanks devised that will replace a couple of frames and provide a chassis that will bear the structural considerations of the main rowing thwart, outriggers, and oarlocks as well as providing around 300 lbs of reserve flotation. We will take a look at flooded stability and the interaction of the flotation tanks closely as there are two attributes that are desired. It is a complicated issue, but the ability to be self-bailing and self-righting are somewhat at odds with one another. A double bottom such as those on the S. Ca lifeguard surf dory, has freeing ports just above the waterline, but I imagine that volume and flotation that low in the boat would be counter to self-righting. I'm trying to provide volume and flotation right up under the gunnel to add righting moment when flooded. I'd think that I'd rather have my pad self right and get its rail above the water to a point that I could bail it out. Also if trying to board the boat after an upset and winding up swimming alongside the boat, the limited flotation in the tanks would allow the rail to be pushed under and slither aboard and still have enough rail out of the water that bailing could be effective. Flotation tanks in the ends of the boat would work along with the side tanks in this respect but I can't seem to get the boat to be both self righting and self bailing without full decks. Self rescue is the key word here. Bob and Jim and I will come up with a good solution in time.

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Self-bailing is going to be a lot of heavy structure and freeboard and not in the design brief that I saw. Did I miss something again?

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This is very cool to watch develop. thanks.

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Right, I'd be satisfied with self righting. There was talk of a double bottom, but that leads one down the slippery slope to self-bailing. So, all we want is the rail out of the water enough to make bailing with a proper bucket a sensible proposition. And the ability to board the boat after a capsize. ORCA will help in determining how this all plays out. We will try and keep swimming out of the equation. In your local waters Bob, I think a swim would be better described as a lot of fast breathing due to the water temps. I've gotten to be a wimp when it comes to water temperature that I would willingly subject my body to.

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Right, I'd be satisfied with self righting. There was talk of a double bottom, but that leads one down the slippery slope to self-bailing. So, all we want is the rail out of the water enough to make bailing with a proper bucket a sensible proposition. And the ability to board the boat after a capsize. ORCA will help in determining how this all plays out. We will try and keep swimming out of the equation. In your local waters Bob, I think a swim would be better described as a lot of fast breathing due to the water temps. I've gotten to be a wimp when it comes to water temperature that I would willingly subject my body to.

 

I think Bob would figure out how to get back in mighty quick if there were an ORCA swimming about.

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I'm a very good swimmer. That was my sport. Zero hand /eye coordination but I can swim. And yes with an Orca on my ass I could shave a few seconds off my best 50m time I'm sure. The water at the beach stays around 50 degs max year round. It's not my kind of swimming temp but some of my neighbors swim regularily in the summer.

 

The peen pod has a 4" side deck with a little trim on it and very good stability numbers. But they are just numbers and I'll have to get in it and rioll around a bit to get a feel for it. Like you automatically do when you get in a new kayak. You test the limits. But I think with that small side deck and some prudence there will be room for error with swamping the boat. I've rowed shells and wherries and they are tippy. I think I can handle it.

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I've got some ambitious side flotation tanks devised that will replace a couple of frames and provide a chassis that will bear the structural considerations of the main rowing thwart, outriggers, and oarlocks as well as providing around 300 lbs of reserve flotation. We will take a look at flooded stability and the interaction of the flotation tanks closely as there are two attributes that are desired. It is a complicated issue, but the ability to be self-bailing and self-righting are somewhat at odds with one another.

 

In my opinion, having flooded stability is much better than self-bailing for human powered boats. Canoes and rowboats seem to have either a trivial amount of water in the bottom, or they are totally swamped.

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tls:

I agree with you. Given the way this boat will be used having it swamp would require some unusual circumstances. I know my way around small boats as does my wife and my son.

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tls

Not all origami boats need to have darts. But they are shaped in such a way that would be hard to compare to the peapod Bob is talking about.

 

attachicon.gif272R-03.jpg

 

This is a cool boat, but why is that consider origami? That seems to be built like any other metal boat with a chine in the bilges. I think I may not be clear how origami differs from other build techniques. Is it because the skin is forced into some limited compound curves, rather than sticking strictly to conic sections?

Actually the whole boat is drawn without chine, chine lines or what. What you see as a white surface is the waterline in elevation view.

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I've got some ambitious side flotation tanks devised that will replace a couple of frames and provide a chassis that will bear the structural considerations of the main rowing thwart, outriggers, and oarlocks as well as providing around 300 lbs of reserve flotation. We will take a look at flooded stability and the interaction of the flotation tanks closely as there are two attributes that are desired. It is a complicated issue, but the ability to be self-bailing and self-righting are somewhat at odds with one another.

 

In my opinion, having flooded stability is much better than self-bailing for human powered boats. Canoes and rowboats seem to have either a trivial amount of water in the bottom, or they are totally swamped.

 

If the boat is self-bailing, then "flooded stability" is one of those vague terms that are only of historical interest like the Treaty of Ghent

 

I bailed out plenty of boats, never learned to like it. The trick is to gain self-bailing capability without raising the Center of Gravity too high.

 

Self-bailing vs flooded stability... hmm which is better... hmm which to they design into lifeboats... hmmm

 

FB- Doug

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Self-bailing vs flooded stability... hmm which is better... hmm which to they design into lifeboats... hmmm

 

FB- Doug

 

But this boat isn't intended for surf rescues. Get real.

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Surf rescues?

Yes!

 

I'll wear my little Bondi bonnet and my speedos.

I can do that.

 

I'll try. I don't think my ass would like that feeling.

Bondi.bmp

post-2980-0-73880600-1381613583_thumb.jpg

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Surf rescues?

Yes!

 

I'll wear my little Bondi bonnet and my speedos.

I can do that.

 

I'll try. I don't think my ass would like that feeling.

 

Never mind. I'll bail out a few boats if I don't have to look at that.

 

FB- Doug

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Eeeew. On top of turkey dinner, I'm going to have nightmares tonight.

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Interesting discussion of Titanium but my boat always was and will be an aluminum boat.

 

Jim Lee:

Betts is in Friday Harbor this week working on his house. I'll come up next week. We can try that Chinese joint.

 

Romaine:

I don't like the sheer on That Bolger boat. That's the first time I have ever said that. But to my old eye it kind of goes wonky in the ends.

I posted the Bolger peapod plan and photograph not because I thought it was particularly beautiful, but rather because it has what I think are some interesting design features among those the standing rowing option, the movable (not sliding) seat(s), the removable keel. the sailing option and the tiller lock.

 

Romain

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Romain:

I am paying attention to all the ideas being presented here.

There is no question that some of the peen pods will be modified to meet owner requirements. Building in alu gives us a lot of freedom that way.

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Question about the Origami method when used with aluminum sheeting ...

 

Why cut darts in the sheet which then either have to be TiG welded or rolled and pounded in order to make a waterproof seam?

 

Would it be easier to hammer a score in the sheet and then fold the scores rather than cut them, then hammer the extra material down?

 

Is the reason it isn't done like this is to avoid the bulges on the inside of the hull of the extra material? (I would rather live with the bulges than worry about the lifetime of a weld.)

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Mike:

I am not concerned at all about welds. A good portion of the PNW commercial fishing fleet is welded alu. Almost the entire Bristol Bay fishing fleet is welded alu. If it worksd for them and the use they see I am confident it will work for me. I cannot live with bulges. Some of these questions would be better addressed by Jim Betts the builder. I don't weld. I have never built a metal boat. I just say, "Make it like this. Call me when you are done."

 

I am getting daily emails from Jim Betts. To say he is fired up would be an understatment. This is going to be a kick.

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Very choice.

 

Aluminum is a good material for resisting bumps and bruises, but were you at all tempted by Chesapeake Light Craft's Expedition Wherry?

I think a more similar boat, though with more beam for sailing, would be the 15' CLC Skerry.

There is not an ugly line on this boat. The sheer is beautiful and accented by the lines of the chines. The chines add interest and eye candy to an already appealing boat. The pea pod plan form shape is very traditional and makes this boat row sweetly.

 

-- Robert H. Perry, SAILING MAGAZINE SMALL BOAT ISSUE- JUNE 2003

IMG_1796.JPG

 

clc_skerry_sailing.jpg

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Proa:

I agree. Some additional beam would make it a far better sailboat. But through the magic of computers the addition of 12" more beam would be easy.

But I certainly do noit want it for rowing and I want a row boat. When I want an alu sailboat I will design one.

 

That is a beauty in your pics. Looks like a 1" dia mainsheet.

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Mike:

I am not concerned at all about welds. A good portion of the PNW commercial fishing fleet is welded alu. Almost the entire Bristol Bay fishing fleet is welded alu. If it worksd for them and the use they see I am confident it will work for me. I cannot live with bulges. Some of these questions would be better addressed by Jim Betts the builder. I don't weld. I have never built a metal boat. I just say, "Make it like this. Call me when you are done."

 

I am getting daily emails from Jim Betts. To say he is fired up would be an understatment. This is going to be a kick.

Any chance of getting him to sign up here so we can get his side as well?

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I agree. A pod with aluminum thwarts is going to be awfully cold on the cheeks, and that hull, no matter how fine, is going to make lotsa noise in any chop at all. I'll take plank on frame or strip planked in a heartbeat.

 

A traditional BC Handliner feature is the "Dry-Assed Seat" , just some string and a couple of wedges. Form-fitting and very comfortable for long days of rowing and fishing.....

 

Handliner.jpg

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I agree. A pod with aluminum thwarts is going to be awfully cold on the cheeks, and that hull, no matter how fine, is going to make lotsa noise in any chop at all. I'll take plank on frame or strip planked in a heartbeat.

 

A traditional BC Handliner feature is the "Dry-Assed Seat" , just some string and a couple of wedges. Form-fitting and very comfortable for long days of rowing and fishing.....

 

Handliner.jpg

 

+1

What's great about traditional workboats is the total lack of "styling" but preponderance of good design.

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Hey Bobber:

I heard a letter from an old Springfield Rifle member on Vinyl Tap w/ Randy Bachman last night named Bob. Ahhh, the old days, if you can remember them you weren't there. Sorry for the hijack. Now back to our regular programming.

G.

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Will you have foam or watertight compartments in the ends?

 

Was wondering this too. Prolly foam as it's a little hard to weld up an air tight space although I suppose one could epoxy up the blow-hole. Or 5200 a panel in place.

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Shit Zen, we had company for dinner and I didn't listen to Vinyl Tap.

You write those letters assuming they will never get read. I had forgotten I wrote it.

 

What did Randy say?

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I agree. A pod with aluminum thwarts is going to be awfully cold on the cheeks, and that hull, no matter how fine, is going to make lotsa noise in any chop at all. I'll take plank on frame or strip planked in a heartbeat.

 

No one has asked Bob about his heated ummm seat status perhaps he's just going to ask Santa for another heated seat and put it in the PeaPod? Which case cold bum won't be as much of an issue but legs falling asleep might be. HA HA

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Hey! You are giving away all my secrets! Good link, and that topic was very instrumental in my rendition of the PeaPod. I'll post some images soon that shows how through the use of Lamina to generate the cutting and folding pattern, I have greatly reduced the extension of the gores toward the ends of the plate. No use in cutting and welding almost all the way to the stem and stern so by shortening the darts (or gores) it will hopefully force some compounding into the ends of the boat. Lamina has a setting that lets one set the tolerance for the angle between facets of the mesh to adjust the extent of the ends of the darts. Metalworking practice would probably suggest that I put round holes through the plate at the ends of the darts so as to provide stress relief and prevent cracking that would likely result if the plate were drawn shut to the end of a sharp angle. Welding would probably take care of that, but a hole will let the plate close up more cleanly and the hole will get filled in after the tack welding and finish welding of the seams. Much like a plug weld is used. Bob and I are both eager to work out the details with Jim Betts as to the metal construction technique. I've spent hours looking at YouTube videos of amazing sheet metal working processes and tricks. I'm sure that Bob and Jim will ensure that the Primo Peened Pod will be a wonder. With such a tight limit on overall weight I need to really sharpen my pencil and get the exact weights of the metal components.

I would be really interested in seeing some of your workflow in Lamina to generate the patterns. It is interesting that it doesn't have an automatic option of add bend relief in each corner, I do a bit of sheet metal work in Inventor, and the automated bend relief shapes are great.

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pretty soon you'll load it in the 3d printer and voila! (at least for the 1/2 model)

 

3-D printer used to manufacture car body

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/3-D-printer-used-to-manufacture-car-body-4898454.php

 

"What we like about 3-D printing is it can print anything," Kor said Tuesday during a presentation at the Verge technology and sustainability conference in San Francisco. "And when you can print anything, you can think of everything."

 

628x471.jpg

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I like it as lot. It has the retro look going for it. Who built that car?

 

I Googled it. That is extremely cool. Daimlier Dart with a 140hp hemi engine.

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Right on, whales LOVE my boats. Or try to. I know that story well.

 

Just spoke to Betts. He is hot to go. I will meet with him on Monday.

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<hijack>

 

I wonder if the peenpod will be strong enough to endure the amorous advances of whales like another BP design: http://www.sfbaysss.net/showthread.php?655-New-Boat-4-Sled&p=7784#post7784

 

</hijack>

 

Funniest boat story I have ever read!! And great thread! You go, BOB!!

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I like it as lot. It has the retro look going for it. Who built that car?

 

I Googled it. That is extremely cool. Daimlier Dart with a 140hp hemi engine.

 

It was a little 2.5L V8, you could also get it in a Daimler badged Mark 2 Jaguar body.

 

I used to work at a gas station in my school holidays, in an upmarket area in Sydney.

 

I got to drive one of the jag bodied Damilers quite a bit. Also 66 Mustangs, but the best was an original wooden bodied Bugatti.

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I've spent some time at Boat Shows chatting with Mustang and Musto and other makers of rescue gear to convince them to attach an inflatable life jacket trigger to a buoyancy bag so I could attach it to the top of my mast for capsize prevention. I even bought a Mustang canister and submersion trigger and cut a hole in a Holt-Allen blue buoyancy bag to mount it, but never thought it would actually stand up to rigorous use. I sail a small boat with a large cockpit, and this problem weighs large in my "risk" column.

 

Other than realize that I misspell "buoyancy" 60% of the time, I've convinced myself that without a manufacturer's support this idea will go no further. But it seems that here is another way these guys could tap into a market. The only "cheap" way of getting self-bailing and self-righting in a large cockpit small boat I can think of would involve automatic CO2 triggers.

 

I wish those companies thought so too!

 

My "solution" has been to install ten buoyancy bags with velcro straps under the gunnels and under the forward storage deck, secured to the under deck with bolts and screws depending on location and access. Good piece of mind, but I haven't yet had the opportunity to test them formally.

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Philly:

I can't spell bouyancy either. Never could. Not going to start now.

 

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

Attributed to Andrew Jackson (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson)

 

I've been using this for years. Even had it on the door to my office when I was a lit. instructor at the U of Oregon. (Followed by a note that spelling would still count when grading essays.) But I think on here spelling is irrelevant. For confirmation you should ask Snaggy if you can find him.

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One of my kids teachers used the expression "Uses non-traditional spelling" in her comments on report cards to denote a kid who couldn't spell.

 

I thought that was pretty pathetic but all too typical of teachers these days

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I've spent some time at Boat Shows chatting with Mustang and Musto and other makers of rescue gear to convince them to attach an inflatable life jacket trigger to a buoyancy bag so I could attach it to the top of my mast for capsize prevention. I even bought a Mustang canister and submersion trigger and cut a hole in a Holt-Allen blue buoyancy bag to mount it, but never thought it would actually stand up to rigorous use. I sail a small boat with a large cockpit, and this problem weighs large in my "risk" column.

 

Other than realize that I misspell "buoyancy" 60% of the time, I've convinced myself that without a manufacturer's support this idea will go no further. But it seems that here is another way these guys could tap into a market. The only "cheap" way of getting self-bailing and self-righting in a large cockpit small boat I can think of would involve automatic CO2 triggers.

 

I wish those companies thought so too!

 

My "solution" has been to install ten buoyancy bags with velcro straps under the gunnels and under the forward storage deck, secured to the under deck with bolts and screws depending on location and access. Good piece of mind, but I haven't yet had the opportunity to test them formally.

 

It exists - it's made by a European company. Secumar I believe. I use one on my Multi23, but these things do require maintenance and aren't cheap. That might be contrary to the customer's desire.

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My "solution" has been to install ten buoyancy bags with velcro straps under the gunnels and under the forward storage deck, secured to the under deck with bolts and screws depending on location and access. Good piece of mind, but I haven't yet had the opportunity to test them formally.

 

 

You do know that the figure of speech is "peace of mind," when used in this context, right? ok, ok, I just wanted to give you a little piece of my mind while you try to figure out how to spell buoyancy.

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Bob

 

I may have volunteered for a SA seafood cook-off on the SA Recipe Thread (Boothie is probably eliminated due to bad behavior), and suggested that the pulling boat would make harvesting more fun. It's not the same in the 8' Livingston or the kayak.

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