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Jim M

What if we Default and Have Hyperinflation?

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Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  4. Cash.
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  10. Generator
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.

I’m sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.

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cash won't help in a hyperinflation market. You need a foreign currency. Euro, Yuan, etc.

 

Oh, and I suppose get a wheelbarrow to carry your cash.

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Guest One of Five

badlat are you really all that concerned?

 

If so, think of cash being worthless... whatcha got to trade?

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We won't see hyper inflation. Remember when the USA credit rating took a hit? And interest rates... dropped?

 

The US dollar is still safer than any other currency. Even with a default. So value will still flow into the dollar even though it may be the cause of instability.

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Guest One of Five

very true. No matter what, we look awesome compared to Europe. At least we have that.

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We won't see hyper inflation. Remember when the USA credit rating took a hit? And interest rates... dropped?

 

The US dollar is still safer than any other currency. Even with a default. So value will still flow into the dollar even though it may be the cause of instability.

Ok. Just a tip. The Fed is buying most of your debt, so I wouldn't get too relaxed about those interest rates if I were you.

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Guest One of Five

Cool - high interest rates and an expansionary monetary policy... that's going to turn out well.

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If the US goes in the toilet, the whole world will go even deeper in the toilet. There would be no safe haven, and no safe investments. The only thing of use to you would be your knowledge, skills, and the tools you can carry with you, even then you would probably die. But hey if you wanna believe there is a way to prepare for things like that, may I suggest the show preppers on natgeo.

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Hoarding Coffee the next few days, im setting up in front of the closed Starbucks. No cash barter only.

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I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

Teabaggers are greasy. Go for the vegetarians, their meat is succulent.

And they put up less of a fight.

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I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

Teabaggers are greasy. Go for the vegetarians, their meat is succulent.

And they put up less of a fight.

Doubtful. You try pinching one off at Whole Foods for the last kale bunch and see how you fair.

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the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.

For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.

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the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.

For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.

but you can use your ammo and guns to get more ammo and guns. i am sure it's been done before.

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If you haven't charted out the location of Mormons in your area, you haven't been serious, and have probably been just prepping-yourself-off.

Seems like half the nuts on that preppers show are Mormons, I don't get it.

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the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.

 

For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.

but you can use your ammo and guns to get more ammo and guns. i am sure it's been done before.

It would still run out, and there are always going to be ores with more guns and ammo. Really, this whole discussion is silly. Like asking how would you survive an attack or Martian invaders. The idea that the us economy is going to collapse is only slightly less far fetched than the Martian invader thing.

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the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.

For how long? Ammo runs out and guns become useless.

but you can use your ammo and guns to get more ammo and guns. i am sure it's been done before.

It would still run out, and there are always going to be ores with more guns and ammo. Really, this whole discussion is silly. Like asking how would you survive an attack or Martian invaders. The idea that the us economy is going to collapse is only slightly less far fetched than the Martian invader thing.

i am glad that you have an understanding of the "arms race" conundrum. yes, it is silly.

 

as for the dire economic position that the us finds itself in. i won't lose any sleep over it. actually, i don't think anyone should lose any sleep over it.

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It's part of their belief system. I believe they are taught to have a full year reserve of foods and some cash too.

 

I actually buy food-safe buckets from one of their websites for use in making beer and wine. Might be blasphemous, but they are good prices.

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Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  4. Cash.
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  10. Generator
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.

I’m sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.

 

You do realize that our tax receipts are considerably more that the interest on the debt? The only way we default is the President orders the treasury not to pay and that would be unconstitutional.

 

14th Amendment Section 4.

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

 

From Forbes

 

Reaching the debt ceiling does not mean that the government will default on the outstanding government debt. In fact, the U.S. Constitution forbids defaulting on the debt (14th Amendment, Section 4), so the government is not allowed to default even if it wanted to.

 

In reality, if the debt ceiling is not raised in the next two weeks, the government will actually have to prioritize its expenses and keep its monthly, weekly, and daily spending under the revenue the government collects. In simple terms, the government would have to spend an amount less than or equal to what it earns. Just like ordinary Americans have to do in their everyday lives.

 

Once the reality of what hitting the debt ceiling means is understood, the important question is: can the government actually live with a balanced budget? How much money could it spend? Could enough spending be cut to live within a balanced budget? The answer is yes, the federal government could live with a balanced budget. Below I will show you precisely how.

 

The federal government estimates it will collect almost $3 trillion in revenue for the fiscal year that runs from October 1, 2013 until September 30, 2014.

 

the interest on the national debt will be less than $240 billion.

 

 

So stop the default BS. You sound like that idiot we have for a president.

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If you haven't charted out the location of Mormons in your area, you haven't been serious, and have probably been just prepping-yourself-off.

Seems like half the nuts on that preppers show are Mormons, I don't get it.

Combine conservative values with a belief in the second coming, you have a target rich environment for food and ammo. ,

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I'm afraid you've got the 14th Amendment wrong. The 14th does not authorize new debt to raise cash to retire maturing debt. If the money is not there no one gets paid and the markets will trigger a default anyway because they will not recognize an untested fix. You need credit, debt, and money to grow an economy anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

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the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.

 

What? Advertise your position and availability of food? Snares are better. I can catch some decent triple tail out the back door.

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I'm going to buy a case of tinfoil rather than my usual 75' roll. Should be enough to protect the ceilings in my house as well as my kids. I'm good.

 

B)

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the answer is guns and ammo. once you have them, you can pretty much get anything else you night need.

 

What? Advertise your position and availability of food? Snares are better. I can catch some decent triple tail out the back door.

Triple tail? Sometimes I question my sanity with just one!

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Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  4. Cash.
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  10. Generator
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.

I’m sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.

 

IMAGINE!!

 

You're a fookin idiot.

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I'm afraid you've got the 14th Amendment wrong. The 14th does not authorize new debt to raise cash to retire maturing debt. If the money is not there no one gets paid and the markets will trigger a default anyway because they will not recognize an untested fix. You need credit, debt, and money to grow an economy anyone thinking otherwise is deluded.

 

What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed.

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

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I'm going to buy a case of tinfoil rather than my usual 75' roll. Should be enough to protect the ceilings in my house as well as my kids. I'm good.

 

B)

23ruvk8.jpg

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Well weve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  • Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days.
  • If you have stock market investments talk to your broker.
  • Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada.
  • Cash.
  • Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply.
  • Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket.
  • A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars.
  • Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters.
  • Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc.
  • Generator
  • If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides.
Im sure many of you will continue to insist that nothing will happen and I truly hope that you are correct. On the other hand, you only get one chance to do right by your family, the choice is completely yours.

IMAGINE!!

 

You're a fookin idiot.

+1

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Well we’ve heard it is possible and even so, many refuse to believe it will happen. But what if it does? Are you and your family ready for hyperinflation? You have just 7 days to prepare.

 

  1. Pay off any debt that has an adjustable interest rate. You can expect rates on credit cards to rise dramatically to becoming worthless within days. Debt free since the cradle - Check
  2. If you have stock market investments talk to your broker. Got it covered - Check
  3. Keep 25% of liquid assets in a foreign country. I recommend Canada. Canadian Passport and Vacation Home in BC - Check
  4. Cash. Check
  5. Stock up on food and medical supplies. At least a three month supply. One Year- Duh
  6. Evaluate your transportation. Fuel prices will skyrocket. 600 gals on the farm at all times
  7. A small amount of Gold or Silver for trade. I have 1/10 oz gold coins and Morgan Silver dollars. Check but I prefer the 1/4 oz Canadian Gold Maple Leaf Coins
  8. Barter items. Alcohol, tobacco, batteries, ammo, matches and disposable lighters. Alcohol is a stupid barter item
  9. Personal protection. Handguns, rifles, knives, etc. Check and double check
  10. Generator Several plus solar farm - check
  11. If you live in a high crime area consider moving until the problem subsides. N/A

 

Plus we are on the border of http://www.deseretranchflorida.com/welcome.html . We will eat well when it hits the fan.

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Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina. Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.

 

The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook. You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system.

 

This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election. Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.

 

So don't worry, stupid peasant. The curtain will soon drop on this scene. The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.

 

 

And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.

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Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina. Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.

 

The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook. You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system.

 

This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election. Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.

 

So don't worry, stupid peasant. The curtain will soon drop on this scene. The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.

 

 

And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.

 

Try the Happy Jack Act

 

Estimate the expected deficit for the next year

 

Divide by 12 to get the debt limit increase we need for the next month and call it the "Borrow"

 

Take 1% of the "Borrow" and call it the "Cut"

 

On the 1st day the next 100 months ( 8 years and 4 months ) subtract another "Cut" from the "Borrow" and increase the borrowing limit by this decreasing amount.

 

In just over 8 years we arrive at a balanced budget.

 

Obama in his Oct. 3rd 2013 "Shut Down Speech" said

 

"Now, unlike past shutdowns -- I want to make sure everybody understands this because, again, sometimes the tendency is to say, well, both sides are at fault. This one has nothing to do with deficits or spending or budgets. Our deficits are falling at the fastest pace in 60 years. "

 

In which case a 1% per month reduction in borrowing power should mesh with his goal like a glove.

 

I call this the Happy Jack Deficit Reduction Act.

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I'm going to buy a case of tinfoil rather than my usual 75' roll. Should be enough to protect the ceilings in my house as well as my kids. I'm good.

 

B)

23ruvk8.jpg

 

What an idiot. Should have used mirrored glasses. They'll get him right through those dark ones.

 

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I'm going to fly my magic carpet over the edge of the flat earth and live forever in Olympian splendor.

 

I think BHO should take a page from the Republicans. Like Lincoln, he should just print the money he needs. The Green back preserved the Union once, there is no reason it shouldn't become standard policy.

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If you haven't charted out the location of Mormons in your area, you haven't been serious, and have probably been just prepping-yourself-off.

Seems like half the nuts on that preppers show are Mormons, I don't get it.

Ratings

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It's part of their belief system. I believe they are taught to have a full year reserve of foods and some cash too.

 

Think 19th century Utah. If your crops fail, or if the primary breadwinner in the family is injured or dies, it's not like you can drive into town and sign up for food stamps. A year's worth of food in the cellar will hold you while you get back on your feet; it's the difference between survival and being wiped out. Now expand it beyond the individual and consider a town, and some disaster befalls -- horrible drought year, fire, epidemic, etc. If everyone in town is comfortably sitting on a year's worth of food, then the fabric of society isn't going to go to hell the instant trouble hits: the first instinct is "How can I help out," not, "Gee, I better grab my shotgun and barricade myself and my stockpile against looters."

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What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed.

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

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What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed.

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

 

Which is why need to take on more debt.

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What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed.

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

Uh, no, we ROLL the debt. Rolling debt NOT require an increase to the debt ceiling because it's a net zero. The only thing that we actually have to pay is the service - the interest.

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I'm not worried. The government will take care of us.

 

I think my small New England town is in line for one those military surplus tanks. It will be good to know it won't just be used in parades and pushing branches off the road after a blizzard.

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Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina. Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.

 

The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook. You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system.

 

This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election. Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.

 

So don't worry, stupid peasant. The curtain will soon drop on this scene. The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.

 

 

And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.

So the Republicans are taking one for the team? One hell of a bullet. More like a RPG. 24%

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What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed.

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

 

The total service on the public debt including some state and local securities ia $415 billion. This however includes the intergovernmental debt.( about 5 trillion of the total 17 trillion) The Government can not default on the money it owes itself. The total service on the public held debt ($12 trillion) is approximately 290 billion.

 

My point remains unchanged. With 3 Trillion in anticipated revenue the US will not default on the $240 or the $290 billion to service the debt. Talk of default is total Bull Shit and Bad latitude is an idiot to suggest it is possible.

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I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

That's my plan. I'm going to eat BadLat. After dinner, I'll have a cocktail and take inventory of my new three month supply of food, cash, gold, and silver.

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I's planning on becoming a cannibal myself.

That's my plan. I'm going to eat BadLat. After dinner, I'll have a cocktail and take inventory of my new three month supply of food, cash, gold, and silver.

 

Hoard plenty of Texas Pete. I imagine he'll taste like half ass-hole and half idiot. Not sure what either of those taste like, but you can't be too careful whilst gathering food stuffs for the family larder.

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Shit, all I did was post a hypothetical question. You'd think I diddled your old lady and flirted with your daughters with all of the punk answers I got. Look, even if the Republicans are successful there will be so many people out of work they will still be demanding Obamacare for lack of any health care at all. Republicans picked the wrong battle any way you look at it, they lose.

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I'm going to fly my magic carpet over the edge of the flat earth and live forever in Olympian splendor.

 

I think BHO should take a page from the Republicans. Like Lincoln, he should just print the money he needs. The Green back preserved the Union once, there is no reason it shouldn't become standard policy.

Lincoln was assassinated...

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What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed.

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

The "principal" never existed. It was pulled out of a hat...

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What part of $3 Trillion Dollars (income during the next 12 months) is way bigger than $240 Billion ( interest on the debt during the next 12 months) escapes your addled brain? I never said the 14th allows new debt to pay old debt because it isn't needed.

 

Damn BL are all you Obamatons that stupid?

 

What part of "You don't only need to pay the interest, you also need to pay the principal when it comes due" escapes your addled brain?

 

Which is why need to take on more debt.

Or print more money.

Or both.

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Look, even if the Republicans are successful there will be so many people out of work they will still be demanding Obamacare for lack of any health care at all.

Don't hold your breath.

A whopping 51,000 signed up this week.

A real success story.

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Since the government hasn't yet released any numbers yours are just a guess and a bad one at that.

And how do you know it's a "bad one" asswiper?

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Good god Badlat, go wash the sand out of your vagina. Don't worry, nobody is going to take away your next hit of crystal debth.

 

The "Republicans" want to raise the debt ceiling just as much as the "Democrats", they're just trying to figure out a way to keep their retarded voting constituency on the hook. You see, Washington absolutely needs to maintain this phony facade of a "two-party" system.

 

This latest scene of political theater has been particularly hard on Bad-Cop "republicans", and the Democrats sorely need them to hold their House majority (or at least a plausibly obstructionist-looking minority) in the next election. Without this phony act, our ruling political caste will have nobody to blame and no way to deflect attention from the absolute ass-fucking they are laying down on all of us stupid voters.

 

So don't worry, stupid peasant. The curtain will soon drop on this scene. The debt limit will be raised (again), Obamacare will be fully funded, and Yellen will continue Bernanke's legacy of destroying our purchasing power so she can continue propping up this sham of a stock "market" and buying our crap debt that nobody else wants.

 

 

And in another 9 months or so, we'll be back here AGAIN, having the same damn argument about raising the debt ceiling AGAIN, and fucking idiots like you will still have learned absolutely nothing.

So the Republicans are taking one for the team? One hell of a bullet. More like a RPG. 24%

 

Yep. This soap opera has been playing for 30 years now, the script writers are losing control of the plot, and the whole series has jumped the shark but they've got to try to keep it rolling anyhow.

 

Believe me, I'd love to be wrong about what I predicted above, highlighted in red. I'd love it if we actually had a genuine, prinicipled opposition party.

 

Hell, I'd even be happy to see the "Republicans" get absolutely slaughtered in the next election and have the "Democrats" suffer the misfortune of winning supermajorities of both chambers of Congress. Then there would be nobody to blame for the shitshow they're creating, and the game would be laid bare for all to see. And that's why it won't happen. At the very least, "Republicans" must and will retain, at the very least, a significant minority in Congress so that they can keep all us ignorant fools fighting amongst ourselves. There always has to be a Bad Cop.

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Badlat, I'll take a stab at that, even though you seem to ignore every response I pose to you.

 

Here's the deal: using FY2013 numbers, annual US revenue was $2.7 trillion. Meanwhile, service on our existing debt was approx. $397 billion.

 

The principal on the debt is not relevant to this issue because we dont actually pay rhe principal, ever. We roll it. That's stupid too, but not relevant for this discussion because rolling debt doesn't increase the total amount of debt.

 

Now, maybe you can explain why it's not possible to make $397 billion worth of payments when we've got income of $2,700 billion. Having other bills to pay and more stuff we'd like to buy is not an excuse for default and I'll reject that argument.

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The first problem I see is a difference in U.S. revenue. My source indicates $2.2 trillion revenue, yours indicate 500 billion more please clarify.

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Okay, let's agree on your figure. First question is how much of that number gets changed by large unemployment numbers? Do we agree that a default will affect employment numbers, ergo receivables? What about Treasury securities that mature during a given month? In March, we had over $700 billion due.

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JFC. Bad, if you keep using ing the word DEFAULT In this context, which I just illustrated is bullshit, then we can't have a conversation.

 

Fucking OF COURSE not raising the debt ceiling will cause a short-term unemployment spike as the economy would have to readjust to the loss of the government tit. But you know what? Next year when we're have this same fucking conversation AGAIN, the problem will be even worse because we refused to take our medicine this time.

 

Your can-kicking by just piling on more debt solves absolutely nothing, and in fact compounds the problem.

 

You just pointed out the insane amount of debt that we had to roll in March. Doesn't this tell you that we have a fookin debt problem? Yet your response is that we must add EVEN MORE debt? What the hell is wrong with you? Would you run your personal finances like this?

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So forcing people to unemployment is a solution? How about jobs first, then make your adjustments. The United States does not function like a household. It cannot be restricted from borrowing to overcome shortfalls in cash flow even when there is a surplus, what amazes me is the 18 trillion dollar number. Why is it being used to pursue an agenda when the only number that is relevant is $12 trillion? that is the publicly traded portion of the debt, the only part that really matters. The rest of the debt is held by Federal agencies and the Federal Reserve and costs nothing to service as it's considered an accounting entry.

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JFC. Bad, if you keep using ing the word DEFAULT In this context, which I just illustrated is bullshit, then we can't have a conversation.

 

Fucking OF COURSE not raising the debt ceiling will cause a short-term unemployment spike as the economy would have to readjust to the loss of the government tit. But you know what? Next year when we're have this same fucking conversation AGAIN, the problem will be even worse because we refused to take our medicine this time.

 

Your can-kicking by just piling on more debt solves absolutely nothing, and in fact compounds the problem.

 

You just pointed out the insane amount of debt that we had to roll in March. Doesn't this tell you that we have a fookin debt problem? Yet your response is that we must add EVEN MORE debt? What the hell is wrong with you? Would you run your personal finances like this?

Are you seriously advocating holding the line on the debt limit? You actually want that to happen?

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JFC. Bad, if you keep using ing the word DEFAULT In this context, which I just illustrated is bullshit, then we can't have a conversation.

 

Fucking OF COURSE not raising the debt ceiling will cause a short-term unemployment spike as the economy would have to readjust to the loss of the government tit. But you know what? Next year when we're have this same fucking conversation AGAIN, the problem will be even worse because we refused to take our medicine this time.

 

Your can-kicking by just piling on more debt solves absolutely nothing, and in fact compounds the problem.

 

You just pointed out the insane amount of debt that we had to roll in March. Doesn't this tell you that we have a fookin debt problem? Yet your response is that we must add EVEN MORE debt? What the hell is wrong with you? Would you run your personal finances like this?

Are you seriously advocating holding the line on the debt limit? You actually want that to happen?

 

Yes. Haven't you figured out yet that what you guys are advocating ISN'T WORKING? Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt. We are making things worse.

 

Now, given that this theater will soon end and we WILL raise the debt ceiling, what are you going to say in a year when we're back here having the same fookin argument AGAIN?

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Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt.

 

If you want less debt, either spend less or increase taxes. The Grand Bargain is on the table and it does both. Clinton did the Grand Bargain thing in 1993. It worked pretty well too. But the Reps have said they won't raise taxes and the Dems have said they won't cut entitlements unless there are new revenues as well. So that's an impasse.

 

But this shutdown is about ObamaCare, which has been been passed, signed, funded, litigated and elected.

 

It's not about debt.

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Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt.

 

If you want less debt, either spend less or increase taxes. The Grand Bargain is on the table and it does both. Clinton did the Grand Bargain thing in 1993. It worked pretty well too. But the Reps have said they won't raise taxes and the Dems have said they won't cut entitlements unless there are new revenues as well. So that's an impasse.

 

But this shutdown is about ObamaCare, which has been been passed, signed, funded, litigated and elected.

 

It's not about debt.

+1 thanks for saying it so well.If they wanted to get our house in order they would be talking tax hikes not service cuts.

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what actually happens when the government starts to run a surplus and all the debt is payed off? does the government save the money?

 

It's only happened once before and didn't work out well: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/04/15/135423586/when-the-u-s-paid-off-the-entire-national-debt-and-why-it-didnt-last

interesting.

 

i was thinking about the disconnect between economic cycles and taxes. when conditions are good and tax receipts are high, arguments for tax cuts rage. but the opposite, when tax receipts drop due to bad times and spending climbs, don't come with a corresponding call to raise or maintain taxes. it takes away the opportunity for governments to save and have a "war chest" with which to attack those low points in the economic cycle.

 

i would guess that most individuals would practise this "save for a rainy day" in their own households.

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Adding more debt is not a solution to the problem of too much debt.

 

If you want less debt, either spend less or increase taxes. The Grand Bargain is on the table and it does both. Clinton did the Grand Bargain thing in 1993. It worked pretty well too. But the Reps have said they won't raise taxes and the Dems have said they won't cut entitlements unless there are new revenues as well. So that's an impasse.

 

But this shutdown is about ObamaCare, which has been been passed, signed, funded, litigated and elected.

 

It's not about debt.

+1 thanks for saying it so well.If they wanted to get our house in order they would be talking tax hikes not service cuts.

 

That is your OPINION, not fact. I happen to hold exactly the opposite opinion - less tax hikes, more service cuts.

 

Can we at least agree to distinguish fact from personal opinion and wishes?

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No, that is a fact. The U.S. receives about $185 Billion a month in revenue. Toward the end of October and the beginning of November, the government will require half a trillion dollars to pay out bond holders. How do you propose paying that without raising taxes?

 

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No, that is a fact. The U.S. receives about $185 Billion a month in revenue. Toward the end of October and the beginning of November, the government will require half a trillion dollars to pay out bond holders. How do you propose paying that without raising taxes?

 

QAfnXgl.png

 

 

SO - BL, if this was your personal account, what would YOU do? Would you minimize outlays? How would you generate more revenue?

 

It's all fun as long as its someone else's money, eh?