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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Tony-F18

WTF, Esimit sailors threaten activists with knives?

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Surely there should be a Rule 69 hearing against the sailors involved in this incident?

 

193757266-4e69c8ea-0547-4f60-a28a-ae07a2

 

Google Translated article:

A rubber boat with twelve activists would block the path of the sponsored by the Russian natural gas giant Gazprom yacht after the second turning point. The action should be a protest against the planned Gazprom drilling in the Arctic and for three weeks in jail in Russia 28 Greenpeace members and two journalists.

A Greenpeace spokesman said the Italian newspaper La Repubblica that the protest was not directed against the sailing world. "The problem is Gazprom. For the Arctic, and for all of us. "It is paradoxical that the boat been sailing under the European flag and consider the official symbol of innovation and efficiency of the continent. Gazprom will however cause with the planned exploitation of Arctic oil reserves, climate chaos on the planet.

193757266-4e69c8ea-0547-4f60-a28a-ae07a2

Attack with the knife? A companion Esimit Greenpeace threatens to pierce the rubber boot. © Greenpeace

While the local police on jetskis abdrängte the Greenpeace boat and took up the identity of the activists also attacked the Esimit tender in the action a. Here, a member of the shore team was photographed in how it pulled out a knife.Apparently, the man threatened to pierce the rubber boot of the attackers.

The founder of the project Igor Esimit Simčič goes in the official press release does not elaborate on the incident. He says: "I feel I honored that the success of the project and his vision were recognized by the President of Slovenia Borut Pahor, who welcomed the team members the week before at the presidential palace and has the team put against his gratitude, to promote European cooperation . "

165049739-0e4fcc5b-2b87-406c-a9f7-22dc43

Greenpeace demonstrates against Gazprom, the sponsor of the yacht Esimit Europe. © Greenpeace

Jochen Schumann said after the race: "To be together with so many boats on the starting line, is really challenging, even dangerous. In combination with light winds, which were smaller yachts at an advantage, it was a difficult race. In the end I'm very happy that we won it. I'm with the performance of the team as well as very pleased with the boat. I look forward to now put to Malta to sail for the last challenge of the year, the Rolex Middle Sea Race, and on the way there to try to set a new distance record between Trieste and Valletta. "

 

http://segelreporter.com/regatta/barcolana-greenpeace-aktion-gegen-gazprom-ueberschattet-schuemann-sieg/

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Surely there should be a Rule 69 hearing against the sailors involved in this incident?

Not good at all. Not necessarily a surprise to those who have incurred the displeasure of Russian $Bs minders. But were there sailors involved?

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If the protest was not directed at the sailing world, then why interfere with a racing yacht?. The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business, nor is there any indication that they in any way did anything wrong. If you have a problem with Gazprom, direct your protests at Gazprom. Yet another example of tree huggers acting in a nonsensical manner and defeating their own purpose.

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yeah, sure. as if the poor defenseless greenpiss "activists" (more like eco-terrorists imho) never asked for what they got for all their bs.



If the protest was not directed at the sailing world, then why interfere with a racing yacht?. The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business, nor is there any indication that they in any way did anything wrong. If you have a problem with Gazprom, direct your protests at Gazprom. Yet another example of tree huggers acting in a nonsensical manner and defeating their own purpose.

 

+1

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If the protest was not directed at the sailing world, then why interfere with a racing yacht?.

No, the yacht has nothing to do with Gazprom. Some bugger crept in during the night and painted graffiti on the mainsail.

 

Barcolana%202013_1%20WS.jpg

The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business

Is that so? Who then do you think is paying them?

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The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business, nor is there any indication that they in any way did anything wrong. If you have a problem with Gazprom, direct your protests at Gazprom.

 

They are part of Gazprom's marketing efforts so yes they have everything to do with Gazprom, being ignorant is not an excuse.

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If the protest was not directed at the sailing world, then why interfere with a racing yacht?.

No, the yacht has nothing to do with Gazprom. Some bugger crept in during the night and painted graffiti on the mainsail.

 

Barcolana%202013_1%20WS.jpg

>The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business

Is that so? Who then do you think is paying them?

 

 

Yes, Gazprom is a sponsor, providing money in exchange for the advertising as you know full well is a common practice. But are you really suggesting that Gaszprom has anything to do with the racing program itself, or that any of the crew on the boat have anything to do with Gazprom beyond that sponsorship or just playing silly buggers?. By the same token, should we feel free to now protest and fuck with any boat who's corporate sponsor we don't like?. Be careful what you wish for.

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Could have been worse...

 

On September 30, 1985, four Soviet diplomats were kidnapped by the Islamic Liberation Organization in Beirut, one, Arkady Katkov, was killed by his captors while trying to escape. The other three, commercial attache Valery Mirkov, press attache Oleg Spirin, and embassy doctor Nikolai Seversky, were released unharmed a month later after a relative of the terrorist leader's was kidnapped and killed by the Soviet KGB.

The terrorist leader's relative was actually his four-year-old son. A Spetsnaz team took the boy from his home. They then delivered the boy’s cut off ear to his mother with a video of the cutting. On the video was a message that if the remaining three Soviets were not released unharmed, the next video would be of the boy’s castration. The Soviets promised that if the diplomats were released, the boy would not be castrated.

The remaining diplomats were released. The Soviets then simply shot the boy in the back of the head in retaliation for the murder of Katkov. However, the KGB did keep its promise and the dead boy was not castrated.

After that, no Soviet diplomat in Lebanon was ever threatened again."

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Yes, Gazprom is a sponsor, providing money in exchange for the advertising as you know full well is a common practice. But are you really suggesting that Gaszprom has anything to do with the racing program itself, or that any of the crew on the boat have anything to do with Gazprom beyond that sponsorship or just playing silly buggers?. By the same token, should we feel free to now protest and fuck with any boat who's corporate sponsor we don't like?. Be careful what you wish for.

Yes, I support the right to peaceful protest, whether I agree with the protesters or not. It's also a legal right in Europe.

 

Describing Gazprom as a "corporate sponsor" is a deeply naive interpretation of the relationship between that company and the Russian state, which has of course locked up other protesters and owns a controlling stake in Gazprom. Nor is Gazprom "advertising" in any normal sense of the word. The customers of Gazprom in Europe are gas supply companies, who are hardly the conventional targets of advertising. The Esimit project is about something else entirely. Russia uses gas supply as a political weapon - ask the people of Ukraine about that. Russia also supplies an increasing proportion of European energy. Plenty of people are less than happy about that. Esimit is about presenting Gazprom as the smiling face of the Russian fist that controls the tap that can turn off Europe's gas supply.

 

But hey, none of that matters so long as a few pampered sailors can do their thing, right?

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As me dear o Mum always said,

 

never take a rubber boat to a knife fight.

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From the picture it appears the boat is being threatened not the people. After the protest and damage of the French Americas Cup boat that was sponsored by the French National Nuclear firm Ariva? the puncture of RIBS to disable an inflatable boat was once again pushed as a way to stop protesters if they appeared to be about to cause physical harm to people or property. The opinion was that since these boats have multiple tube sections that by only puncturing one section the boat would be unable to move but still be afloat.

 

This is nothing new and the same tactic against Drug runners and unknown boats that refuse to stop has been considered. The US Coast Guard utilizes 50 caliber rifles to shoot a bullet through engines from a helicopter to disable boats. There are several active duty and recently retired posters from various countries police and navies who may want to post anonymously. They can tell you more than I can.

 

 

The looks and actions of the protesters can be attributed to language barriers and being scarred at a man with a knife....very understandable! Second, the protesters may have expected this action and trained on how to react and get a great picture.....well played!

 

There is currently a trial for I believe Greenpeace protesters in the process with several having been held for a good amount of time in a Siberian jail. So it is not surprising that the target of this protest was Gazprom. Yes you had better be careful who you have sponsor your boat.

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Yes, Gazprom is a sponsor, providing money in exchange for the advertising as you know full well is a common practice. But are you really suggesting that Gaszprom has anything to do with the racing program itself, or that any of the crew on the boat have anything to do with Gazprom beyond that sponsorship or just playing silly buggers?. By the same token, should we feel free to now protest and fuck with any boat who's corporate sponsor we don't like?. Be careful what you wish for.

Yes, I support the right to peaceful protest, whether I agree with the protesters or not. It's also a legal right in Europe.

 

Describing Gazprom as a "corporate sponsor" is a deeply naive interpretation of the relationship between that company and the Russian state, which has of course locked up other protesters and owns a controlling stake in Gazprom. Nor is Gazprom "advertising" in any normal sense of the word. The customers of Gazprom in Europe are gas supply companies, who are hardly the conventional targets of advertising. The Esimit project is about something else entirely. Russia uses gas supply as a political weapon - ask the people of Ukraine about that. Russia also supplies an increasing proportion of European energy. Plenty of people are less than happy about that. Esimit is about presenting Gazprom as the smiling face of the Russian fist that controls the tap that can turn off Europe's gas supply.

 

But hey, none of that matters so long as a few pampered sailors can do their thing, right?

 

 

That is not what I meant. Gazprom is a sponsor of the boat, regardless of it's relationship with the Russian government. Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?. I have no issue with protesting, or expressing an opinion, far from it. But there is a time and place for everything, and deliberately interfering with a sailboat's right of passage in violation of Colregs is not it. Protest the boat at the dock to your heart's content. Or cut to the chase, and protest Gazprom itself. Or if you really feel that strongly..find another energy supplier and get them out of the equation and stop supporting them.

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Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

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There’s an underlying theme here that cuts to the heart of enviros and America. They wouldn’t be able to exist in the US without personal and economic freedom. They do their best to ensure that we have no economic freedom. Then they are shocked when they go to an area ruled by thugs. They just love the rule of law when it can save them from thugs like the Russians but they are the first people to behave like “thugs” in the US. I’m half glad they get to find out what real thugs are like, frankly

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There’s an underlying theme here that cuts to the heart of enviros and America. They wouldn’t be able to exist in the US without personal and economic freedom. They do their best to ensure that we have no economic freedom. Then they are shocked when they go to an area ruled by thugs. They just love the rule of law when it can save them from thugs like the Russians but they are the first people to behave like “thugs” in the US. I’m half glad they get to find out what real thugs are like, frankly

 

+1

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They absolutely are connected to everything Gazprom does - they are sailing around promoting Gazprom - this includes everything the brand stands for - warts and all

 

 

Yes, Gazprom is a sponsor, providing money in exchange for the advertising as you know full well is a common practice. But are you really suggesting that Gaszprom has anything to do with the racing program itself, or that any of the crew on the boat have anything to do with Gazprom beyond that sponsorship or just playing silly buggers?. By the same token, should we feel free to now protest and fuck with any boat who's corporate sponsor we don't like?. Be careful what you wish for.

Yes, I support the right to peaceful protest, whether I agree with the protesters or not. It's also a legal right in Europe.

Describing Gazprom as a "corporate sponsor" is a deeply naive interpretation of the relationship between that company and the Russian state, which has of course locked up other protesters and owns a controlling stake in Gazprom. Nor is Gazprom "advertising" in any normal sense of the word. The customers of Gazprom in Europe are gas supply companies, who are hardly the conventional targets of advertising. The Esimit project is about something else entirely. Russia uses gas supply as a political weapon - ask the people of Ukraine about that. Russia also supplies an increasing proportion of European energy. Plenty of people are less than happy about that. Esimit is about presenting Gazprom as the smiling face of the Russian fist that controls the tap that can turn off Europe's gas supply.

But hey, none of that matters so long as a few pampered sailors can do their thing, right?

 

 

That is not what I meant. Gazprom is a sponsor of the boat, regardless of it's relationship with the Russian government. Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?. I have no issue with protesting, or expressing an opinion, far from it. But there is a time and place for everything, and deliberately interfering with a sailboat's right of passage in violation of Colregs is not it. Protest the boat at the dock to your heart's content. Or cut to the chase, and protest Gazprom itself. Or if you really feel that strongly..find another energy supplier and get them out of the equation and stop supporting them.

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From the picture it appears the boat is being threatened not the people. After the protest and damage of the French Americas Cup boat that was sponsored by the French National Nuclear firm Ariva? the puncture of RIBS to disable an inflatable boat was once again pushed as a way to stop protesters if they appeared to be about to cause physical harm to people or property. The opinion was that since these boats have multiple tube sections that by only puncturing one section the boat would be unable to move but still be afloat.

 

This is nothing new and the same tactic against Drug runners and unknown boats that refuse to stop has been considered. The US Coast Guard utilizes 50 caliber rifles to shoot a bullet through engines from a helicopter to disable boats. There are several active duty and recently retired posters from various countries police and navies who may want to post anonymously. They can tell you more than I can.

 

 

The looks and actions of the protesters can be attributed to language barriers and being scarred at a man with a knife....very understandable! Second, the protesters may have expected this action and trained on how to react and get a great picture.....well played!

 

There is currently a trial for I believe Greenpeace protesters in the process with several having been held for a good amount of time in a Siberian jail. So it is not surprising that the target of this protest was Gazprom. Yes you had better be careful who you have sponsor your boat.

 

their speciality.

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That photo speaks volumes about the situation and is very bad press for the company, no matter whether the yacht was directly or indirectly part of Gazwhatever. What did I hear the other day, in Russia 35% of house hold income are controlled by 110 people.

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/10/10/231446353/if-you-think-wealth-disparity-is-bad-here-look-at-russia

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There’s an underlying theme here that cuts to the heart of enviros and America. They wouldn’t be able to exist in the US without personal and economic freedom. They do their best to ensure that we have no economic freedom. Then they are shocked when they go to an area ruled by thugs. They just love the rule of law when it can save them from thugs like the Russians but they are the first people to behave like “thugs” in the US. I’m half glad they get to find out what real thugs are like, frankly

Not everything is about America. 30 Greenpeace activists being held in Murmansk of whom:

 

1 American and 1 Swedish/American dual nationality

2 Argentinian

1 Australian

1 Brazilian

6 British

2 Canadian

2 Dutch

1 Danish

1 Finnish

1 French

1 Italian

2 New Zealand

1 Polish

4 Russian

1 Swiss

1 Turkish

1 Ukranian

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Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

 

Then we disagree. Holding sporting teams whether they are sailing, motorsports, or any other activity that use sponsorships to help underwrite the expense of the activity in the same light as the sponsor themselves leads to a very slippery slope. And interfering with that sporting activity as part of a protest against the sponsor is to me an asshat move that accomplishes nothing. Again, beware of what you ask for, you just might get it.

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That photo speaks volumes about the situation and is very bad press for the company, no matter whether the yacht was directly or indirectly part of Gazwhatever. What did I hear the other day, in Russia 35% of house hold income are controlled by 110 people.

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/10/10/231446353/if-you-think-wealth-disparity-is-bad-here-look-at-russia

 

and exactly what does it have to do with greenpiss ecoterrorists threatening a sail-race boat?

 

 

 

Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

 

Then we disagree. Holding sporting teams whether they are sailing, motorsports, or any other activity that use sponsorships to help underwrite the expense of the activity in the same light as the sponsor themselves leads to a very slippery slope. And interfering with that sporting activity as part of a protest against the sponsor is to me an asshat move that accomplishes nothing. Again, beware of what you ask for, you just might get it.

 

+1

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There’s an underlying theme here that cuts to the heart of enviros and America. They wouldn’t be able to exist in the US without personal and economic freedom. They do their best to ensure that we have no economic freedom. Then they are shocked when they go to an area ruled by thugs. They just love the rule of law when it can save them from thugs like the Russians but they are the first people to behave like “thugs” in the US. I’m half glad they get to find out what real thugs are like, frankly

How does this story have anything to do with the US?

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What bothers me is that this yacht is literally suppose to be the flagship of all that Europe stands for, the President of the European Commision is even listed as official Patron.

 

The reality is, is that Russia illegally seized an EU flagged vessel with peaceful protesters and charging them with "piracy" and the possibility of 15yrs imprisonment.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24362817

 

 

Looks like they have put out a statement on their official Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/esimiteuropa

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This is why you should always carry a patch-kit.

 

Rema 'Tip-Top" makes a good one.

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So wait - the consensus hear is the sport sponsorships should only be for positive association. Teams and sport sponsorships should be use to positively propagandize but no one is allowed to point out that that sponsor is white washing their rep?

 

I think you SHOULD take a hard look at your sponsors. Don't take a sponsorship from a company you are not comfortable being associated with.

 

This is one of the only safe ways to protest Gazprom. Outside of Russia at major events where camera's and reporters are present is the only way for them not to seize you... Russia is at the point where they are jailing any protestor that isn't state approved or anyone that crosses an undefined line...

 

To take the whole thing a bit more extreme: Would it have been OK for Stalin or imperial Japan (see I avoided the Nazis!) to have "sponsored" sports teams without expecting protests?

 

I don't see how giving your money to sports team for advertising suddenly cleans that money...

Also - private citizens attacking a RIB with a knife weather it disabled the boat or sunk it is unsafe and illegal.

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Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

 

Then we disagree. Holding sporting teams whether they are sailing, motorsports, or any other activity that use sponsorships to help underwrite the expense of the activity in the same light as the sponsor themselves leads to a very slippery slope. And interfering with that sporting activity as part of a protest against the sponsor is to me an asshat move that accomplishes nothing. Again, beware of what you ask for, you just might get it.

 

Well, if the sport is used to promote corporate interests, it becomes fair game for others to target the sport that is promoting those interests. Both Gazprom and Greenpeace are in the business of creating visibility to promote their agenda. Frankly, from the instant the sailors took the money, they took on board the risk too. Don't like it? Find sponsors that aren't running around screwing people over.

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That photo speaks volumes about the situation and is very bad press for the company, no matter whether the yacht was directly or indirectly part of Gazwhatever. What did I hear the other day, in Russia 35% of house hold income are controlled by 110 people.

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/10/10/231446353/if-you-think-wealth-disparity-is-bad-here-look-at-russia

 

and exactly what does it have to do with greenpiss ecoterrorists threatening a sail-race boat?

 

Why don't you call them nazis as long as you are diplaying your utter ignorance? I mean please, proceed and tell us how many people Greenpeace has killed promoting its agenda? Contrast that with the Russian government. ou want to talk terrorism, you're pointing the fingers in the wrong direction.

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That photo speaks volumes about the situation and is very bad press for the company, no matter whether the yacht was directly or indirectly part of Gazwhatever. What did I hear the other day, in Russia 35% of house hold income are controlled by 110 people.

 

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/10/10/231446353/if-you-think-wealth-disparity-is-bad-here-look-at-russia

and exactly what does it have to do with greenpiss ecoterrorists threatening a sail-race boat?

 

Why don't you call them nazis as long as you are diplaying your utter ignorance? I mean please, proceed and tell us how many people Greenpeace has killed promoting its agenda? Contrast that with the Russian government. ou want to talk terrorism, you're pointing the fingers in the wrong direction.

Fuck off newb, not another word until you show us some TITS!

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What we have is a high end sailing program that made a Faustian bargain with a deep pocketed, scumbaggy sponsor. I suspect the sailors and support boat were reacting to someone fucking up their mark rounding, and that to them, this has nothing to do with sleezy Russian oligarchy or polar bear habitat. For the record, I am against arctic drilling, but if I had been there, I probably would have shanked the dinghy myself.

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If the protest was not directed at the sailing world, then why interfere with a racing yacht?. The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business, nor is there any indication that they in any way did anything wrong. If you have a problem with Gazprom, direct your protests at Gazprom. Yet another example of tree huggers acting in a nonsensical manner and defeating their own purpose.

 

+1

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Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

 

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

Then we disagree. Holding sporting teams whether they are sailing, motorsports, or any other activity that use sponsorships to help underwrite the expense of the activity in the same light as the sponsor themselves leads to a very slippery slope. And interfering with that sporting activity as part of a protest against the sponsor is to me an asshat move that accomplishes nothing. Again, beware of what you ask for, you just might get it.

Well, if the sport is used to promote corporate interests, it becomes fair game for others to target the sport that is promoting those interests. Both Gazprom and Greenpeace are in the business of creating visibility to promote their agenda. Frankly, from the instant the sailors took the money, they took on board the risk too. Don't like it? Find sponsors that aren't running around screwing people over.

And again I have no issue with people protesting Gazprom, but interfering with a boat racing and boring colregs is simply not the way to do it. There is a time and place for everything.

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Let me guess if one were to go and fuck with a Motorcycle rally calling it a protest one would expect a some what negative response no? If a person were to go fuck with a NASCAR event under the guise of Protest one would expect some type of negative response no? If a person were to go and fuck with a Kids Beauty pageant under the guise of protest one would expect a pretty negative response from the mothers no?

 

If someone were to go fuck with a Base ball game under the guise of protest what type of response would you expect?

 

Do I really need to continue? When people go and fuck with other peoples organized events which are more or less minding their own business doing their thing its pretty much understood if you are uninvited guests acting like complete jerk offs and interfering with said event the response you will receive will no doubt be a very negative experience for the jerks interfering with the event. In some cases such as the Kids Beauty Pageant you'd be lucky to leave the area intact with all your limbs and such still working.

 

I'd say they got off light regardless of their supposed reason for being there. Perhaps Green Peace should try hosting their own regatta for which they can then protest the participants all they want.

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There’s an underlying theme here that cuts to the heart of enviros and America. They wouldn’t be able to exist in the US without personal and economic freedom. They do their best to ensure that we have no economic freedom. Then they are shocked when they go to an area ruled by thugs. They just love the rule of law when it can save them from thugs like the Russians but they are the first people to behave like “thugs” in the US. I’m half glad they get to find out what real thugs are like, frankly

How does this story have anything to do with the US?

Nothing...well, other than the Captain Stabbin reference on the FP, to nothing short of the greatest completely unscripted reality porn with a gentle edginess ever produced on Biscayne Bay.

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Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

 

Then we disagree. Holding sporting teams whether they are sailing, motorsports, or any other activity that use sponsorships to help underwrite the expense of the activity in the same light as the sponsor themselves leads to a very slippery slope. And interfering with that sporting activity as part of a protest against the sponsor is to me an asshat move that accomplishes nothing. Again, beware of what you ask for, you just might get it.

 

Sports teams are 100% accountable for whom they accept sponsorship from. In life, you get to choose who you accept money from and who you do not accept money from and you must accept the consequences of accepting that money. When you sign a sponsorship deal, you are signing on to represent the sponsor and others are entitled to believe that it is someone you have chosen to represent. When you accept a job on a sport team, sailors, like everyone else, are accountable for who we choose to work for. If we are not, then it is one small step to "I was just obeying orders".

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And again I have no issue with people protesting Gazprom, but interfering with a boat racing and boring colregs is simply not the way to do it. There is a time and place for everything.

 

Naive much?

You mean they should have been protesting against Gazprom's drilling activities at their drilling location?

That is what got their ship seized remember, and those ludicrous charges of piracy.

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Greenpeace's tactics injure people, cause large amounts of damage and are anything but peaceful. A knife to the inflatable? Awesome. One less Greenpeace boat!

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Greenpeace's tactics injure people, cause large amounts of damage and are anything but peaceful. A knife to the inflatable? Awesome. One less Greenpeace boat!

I agree, screw these eco facists.

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Do I really need to continue? When people go and fuck with other peoples organized events which are more or less minding their own business doing their thing its pretty much understood if you are uninvited guests acting like complete jerk offs and interfering with said event the response you will receive will no doubt be a very negative experience for the jerks interfering with the event. In some cases such as the Kids Beauty Pageant you'd be lucky to leave the area intact with all your limbs and such still working.

Honey BooBoo for sailor chick of the weekend

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Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

 

Then we disagree. Holding sporting teams whether they are sailing, motorsports, or any other activity that use sponsorships to help underwrite the expense of the activity in the same light as the sponsor themselves leads to a very slippery slope. And interfering with that sporting activity as part of a protest against the sponsor is to me an asshat move that accomplishes nothing. Again, beware of what you ask for, you just might get it.

 

Sports teams are 100% accountable for whom they accept sponsorship from. In life, you get to choose who you accept money from and who you do not accept money from and you must accept the consequences of accepting that money. When you sign a sponsorship deal, you are signing on to represent the sponsor and others are entitled to believe that it is someone you have chosen to represent. When you accept a job on a sport team, sailors, like everyone else, are accountable for who we choose to work for. If we are not, then it is one small step to "I was just obeying orders".

What a ridiculous statement. Let's change the scenario just a bit and say it is an Olympic track meet and the protesters are protesting Nike because somebody thinks they promote child labor, and the runners are wearing Nike logo apparel or are even sponsored by Nike. Is that acceptable to disrupt the Olympics to protest Nike? The sailors are about racing the boat. Assigning a sponsors sins, real or imagined, to the athletes is wrong.

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Taking a closer look at the picture, it appears they have had a problem with stabbings prior to this. They should know better...

LOL judging by the patches on the rib it would suggest your right.

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Greenpeace's tactics injure people, cause large amounts of damage and are anything but peaceful. A knife to the inflatable? Awesome. One less Greenpeace boat!

 

Thank you... I agree 100000%... Greenpeace are nothing but a bunch of idiots who think they are "saving the world", when all they're doing is making themselves look like idiots... Them and Sea Shepherd... They should all be locked up and then throw away the key...

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Only one problem they didn't sink the greenpeace RIB.

 

People trying to do harm or board a boat without permission should expect consequences.

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Or are you still suggesting that the sailors on the boat have anything to do with locking up protestors, Gazprom's business practices, or the Russian government?

I don't think you can duck the question of who is ultimately writing your pay cheque and why. Nor I do I agree that protesting "Gazprom" and protesting a 100 foot sailboat with "Gazprom" on the mainsail are two different things.

 

Then we disagree. Holding sporting teams whether they are sailing, motorsports, or any other activity that use sponsorships to help underwrite the expense of the activity in the same light as the sponsor themselves leads to a very slippery slope. And interfering with that sporting activity as part of a protest against the sponsor is to me an asshat move that accomplishes nothing. Again, beware of what you ask for, you just might get it.

 

Sports teams are 100% accountable for whom they accept sponsorship from. In life, you get to choose who you accept money from and who you do not accept money from and you must accept the consequences of accepting that money. When you sign a sponsorship deal, you are signing on to represent the sponsor and others are entitled to believe that it is someone you have chosen to represent. When you accept a job on a sport team, sailors, like everyone else, are accountable for who we choose to work for. If we are not, then it is one small step to "I was just obeying orders".

Greenies should protest the sail loft that built that sail.

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Not everything is about America. 30 Greenpeace activists being held in Murmansk of whom:

 

1 American and 1 Swedish/American dual nationality

2 Argentinian

1 Australian

1 Brazilian

6 British

2 Canadian

2 Dutch

1 Danish

1 Finnish

1 French

1 Italian

2 New Zealand

1 Polish

4 Russian

1 Swiss

1 Turkish

1 Ukranian

 

Let them all rot in jail... Go get a real job and stop pretending that you're saving the world... because you're not...

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And again I have no issue with people protesting Gazprom, but interfering with a boat racing and boring colregs is simply not the way to do it. There is a time and place for everything.

Naive much?

You mean they should have been protesting against Gazprom's drilling activities at their drilling location?

That is what got their ship seized remember, and those ludicrous charges of piracy.

And thinking that interfering with a racing yacht will have any impact at all on Gazprom is not naive at best?.

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And again I have no issue with people protesting Gazprom, but interfering with a boat racing and boring colregs is simply not the way to do it. There is a time and place for everything.

Naive much?

You mean they should have been protesting against Gazprom's drilling activities at their drilling location?

That is what got their ship seized remember, and those ludicrous charges of piracy.

And thinking that interfering with a racing yacht will have any impact at all on Gazprom is not naive at best?.

 

As a protest, I'd say it worked. The best thing Greenpeace could have wished for is that dude with a knife; now they've got more press and even you are talking about it.

 

Did you know about Gazprom's rig in the Russian Arctic before now?

 

No matter what side of the political divide you are on with regards to the environment, I'd say it worked when the average person in the street reads and thinks about it.

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Not everything is about America. 30 Greenpeace activists being held in Murmansk of whom:

 

1 American and 1 Swedish/American dual nationality

2 Argentinian

1 Australian

1 Brazilian

6 British

2 Canadian

2 Dutch

1 Danish

1 Finnish

1 French

1 Italian

2 New Zealand

1 Polish

4 Russian

1 Swiss

1 Turkish

1 Ukranian

 

Let them all rot in jail... Go get a real job and stop pretending that you're saving the world... because you're not...

Is your thesis

 

a) the world doesn't need saving, or

B) there is somebody else doing it?

 

It has to be one or the other, because you are implying that Greenpeace is not necessary. So, which is it?

 

dash

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a) the world doesn't need saving, or

B) there is somebody else doing it?

 

There's always option c) What Greenpeace gets up to achieves nothing other than wasting other people's time and money and providing a illusionary glow of self satisfaction to the participants

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a) the world doesn't need saving, or

B) there is somebody else doing it?

 

There's always option c) What Greenpeace gets up to achieves nothing other than wasting other people's time and money and providing a illusionary glow of self satisfaction to the participants

 

Exactly!

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a) the world doesn't need saving, or

B) there is somebody else doing it?

 

There's always option c) What Greenpeace gets up to achieves nothing other than wasting other people's time and money and providing a illusionary glow of self satisfaction to the participants

 

So you think oil and gas companies should just go and do whatever they want, regardless of the effects on the environment? (spills, etc).

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But hey, none of that matters so long as a few pampered sailors can do their thing, right?

An ethical relationship they has, pro-athletes and sponsors, like high price whores and their clients.

 

<_<

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a) the world doesn't need saving, or

B) there is somebody else doing it?

 

There's always option c) What Greenpeace gets up to achieves nothing other than wasting other people's time and money and providing a illusionary glow of self satisfaction to the participants

 

So you think oil and gas companies should just go and do whatever they want, regardless of the effects on the environment? (spills, etc).

 

No, they shouldn't... but attacking their rigs and interfering with a yacht race sure as hell isn't going to stop it... Why does Greenpeace have the word "peace" in their name if they continue to do these stupid things?... They're no better than terrorists or common vandals...

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Just goes to show the inevitable association of dirty money and massively expensive boats, think of how many bodies are crawled over to get that weath.

Stick to small boats, paid for by yourself, stay pure.

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No, they shouldn't... but attacking their rigs and interfering with a yacht race sure as hell isn't going to stop it... Why does Greenpeace have the word "peace" in their name if they continue to do these stupid things?... They're no better than terrorists or common vandals...

 

Then enlighten us, what would you do instead of protesting?

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No, they shouldn't... but attacking their rigs and interfering with a yacht race sure as hell isn't going to stop it... Why does Greenpeace have the word "peace" in their name if they continue to do these stupid things?... They're no better than terrorists or common vandals...

 

Then enlighten us, what would you do instead of protesting?

I realize that you didn't ask me, however I think that they should grow up, get a real job, pay tax's and vote.

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No, they shouldn't... but attacking their rigs and interfering with a yacht race sure as hell isn't going to stop it... Why does Greenpeace have the word "peace" in their name if they continue to do these stupid things?... They're no better than terrorists or common vandals...

 

Then enlighten us, what would you do instead of protesting?

 

I wish I knew the answer to that question... But I do know that what Greenpeace is doing is not the answer...

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When people go and fuck with other peoples organized events which are more or less minding their own business doing their thing its pretty much understood if you are uninvited guests acting like complete jerk offs and interfering with said event the response you will receive will no doubt be a very negative experience for the jerks interfering with the event. In some cases such as the Kids Beauty Pageant you'd be lucky to leave the area intact with all your limbs and such still working.

Okay, but allow the original inhabitants (or their representatives) of lands that Gazprom are now using/defiling/altering forever first dibs to this position. They were minding their own business before these massively powerful entities invaded and acted like complete jerk offs and interfered with their lives. Ruining the environment definitely equates with "interfering with the event" to which you refer.

 

If you want your opinion taken seriously, allow the other side of the argument to use the same argument, unless such an application is ridiculous. Otherwise it is mere hypocrisy. Do you really, really want to defend Gazprom? They make Exxon look like saints and angels, because they have shown a propensity to deprive protestors of their liberty, and I wouldn't trust them to always leave folks with "limbs and such still working."

 

Democracy is messy. World democracy is even messier. World domination by enormous state-sponsored multinational companies without allowing protests by slightly deranged tree huggers? That's fuckin' scary. Sailors should at least tolerate these protestors, because they fight their mismatched battles on behalf of us all. Even if you don't agree with their methods, the alternative is corporate dictatorship of the seas.

 

It ain't a beauty pageant when thousand gallon oil spills are a daily occurrence and protesters are being locked up indefinitely, without hope of anything but a show trial, completely dependent on half-hearted efforts by annoyed diplomats.

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Greenpeace's tactics injure people, cause large amounts of damage and are anything but peaceful. A knife to the inflatable? Awesome. One less Greenpeace boat!

 

+1

 

 

Greenpeace's tactics injure people, cause large amounts of damage and are anything but peaceful. A knife to the inflatable? Awesome. One less Greenpeace boat!

I agree, screw these eco facists.

 

+1

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Greenpeace's tactics injure people, cause large amounts of damage and are anything but peaceful. A knife to the inflatable? Awesome. One less Greenpeace boat!

 

Thank you... I agree 100000%... Greenpeace are nothing but a bunch of idiots who think they are "saving the world", when all they're doing is making themselves look like idiots... Them and Sea Shepherd... They should all be locked up and then throw away the key...

 

+1

 

Only one problem they didn't sink the greenpeace RIB.

 

People trying to do harm or board a boat without permission should expect consequences.

 

+1

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+1000

 

 

Not everything is about America. 30 Greenpeace activists being held in Murmansk of whom:

1 American and 1 Swedish/American dual nationality
2 Argentinian
1 Australian
1 Brazilian
6 British
2 Canadian
2 Dutch
1 Danish
1 Finnish
1 French
1 Italian
2 New Zealand
1 Polish
4 Russian
1 Swiss
1 Turkish
1 Ukranian

 

Let them all rot in jail... Go get a real job and stop pretending that you're saving the world... because you're not...

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And again I have no issue with people protesting Gazprom, but interfering with a boat racing and boring colregs is simply not the way to do it. There is a time and place for everything.

Naive much?

You mean they should have been protesting against Gazprom's drilling activities at their drilling location?

That is what got their ship seized remember, and those ludicrous charges of piracy.

 

And thinking that interfering with a racing yacht will have any impact at all on Gazprom is not naive at best?.

 

As a protest, I'd say it worked. The best thing Greenpeace could have wished for is that dude with a knife; now they've got more press and even you are talking about it.

 

Did you know about Gazprom's rig in the Russian Arctic before now?

 

No matter what side of the political divide you are on with regards to the environment, I'd say it worked when the average person in the street reads and thinks about it.

the average person may well have read it and thought about it, but and its a big but, are they changing their opinion on the environment. I would say no most here have been discussing the action/ event but not the reason for the protest. So I would say this hasn't achieved much. It got greenpeaces name out there again but did it make you think about the environment no.

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I seem to remember quite a bit of support on these forums for Greenpeace when it involved the Japs and whaling.

 

The title of this thread and the front page piece are also both misleading when even the article quoted says that the Esmit tender threatened the RIB, not the activists.

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People don't learn anything from the police. Get the camera.... always get the camera.

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a) the world doesn't need saving, or

B) there is somebody else doing it?

 

There's always option c) What Greenpeace gets up to achieves nothing other than wasting other people's time and money and providing a illusionary glow of self satisfaction to the participants

 

So you think oil and gas companies should just go and do whatever they want, regardless of the effects on the environment? (spills, etc).

 

No, they shouldn't... but attacking their rigs and interfering with a yacht race sure as hell isn't going to stop it... Why does Greenpeace have the word "peace" in their name if they continue to do these stupid things?... They're no better than terrorists or common vandals...

Attacking? What a load of spin - they climbed it to attach a banner. You sound like a mouthpiece for either Gazprom or the Russian government. Intefering with a yacht race - hell yes, why not, it is a non-violent way to get a message out. Except in this case the yachties threatened violence. The only thing Greenpeace did in this case, apparently, was spoil a mark rounding. Boo hoo.

 

They are better than terrorists and common vandals because they are doing what they do out of concern for the planet, not for the sake of some religious ideal or childish urge to cause damage. They are committed to non-violence and have remained steadfast in that commitment over the years. Not like the guy with the knife in the expensive wetgear in the RIB, his commitment to non-violence went out the window over a flipping mark-rounding. If ISAF does not 69 these guys then they have no business running sailing.

 

As for Gazprom/Esimit sailing et al, you cast your lot with the devil, and you have to face the consequences. The president of the EU must be rueing the day he got involved with this bunch...

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I see and understand that there are different opinions about Greenpeace. I can tell you the best way to deal with Greenpeace and similar activists and how not to deal with them.

 

Blowing up the Greenpeace ship because it is involved in protesting your nuclear tests in the South Pacific killing one of their crew......not good. The French will never live that one down. The result is that just about anytime there is an opportunity to go after French interests you can bet that Greenpeace is motivated.

 

Admitting when obviously wrong and taking steps to solve and mitigate problems. Getting in front of problems before the protesters do. US Navy - When trash including medical waste showed up on a beach the US Navy jumped on the band wagan buying trash compactors and separating trash. Tracking Dolphins and limiting then moving Sonar testing and exercises. When protested let it happen and ask politely not to damage anything expensive. Put Greenpeace on your yearly donation opportunity for your entire organization. (US Navy and Marine Corp) Being nice to the non-violent protesters has big payoffs.

 

Greenpeace is going to wage a non-violent war against Russia until all of their people and any ships / equipment are returned. This Gazprom boat is now going to be a target wherever it goes. It is great to have an opinion on right and wrong. Some of you have displayed excellent persuasive writing skills based on what you feel is right. My only problem with your opinions is that the reality of what will happen is much more important. My opinion is that anyone and anything associated with Gazprom will be targeted. Sorry, but welcome to the real world. If that boat travels to a Country that is considered unlikely to prosecute I would expect to see Greenpeace there. While I do not expect any violence from Greenpeace activists what happens in the near future is anyones guess as long as the Greenpeace activists are in jail.

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Greenpeace's tactics injure people, cause large amounts of damage and are anything but peaceful. A knife to the inflatable? Awesome. One less Greenpeace boat!

 

 

I used to track Greenpeace activities but have not done so in a good number of years. What injuries and great amount of damage are you talking about?

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That's OK. If we keep the consumption of oil at the same rate global climate change will probably make ocean racing impossible in about 40 to 50 years due the increased turbulence in the atmosphere. even if countries slammed the brakes on emissions today, the climate would continue to warm because carbon dioxide remains in the atmosphere for centuries. The gradual-but-relentless build-up of CO2 in the atmosphere since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution is an indication that humans are pumping it into the air faster than natural processes can remove the excess. - See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/05/climate-change-report-time-start-preparing-worst#sthash.qWWyCK2i.dpuf

 

Green Peace is only pointing out that we may well be seeing not only the end of sail boat racing in the near future, but the end of human life on the planet.

even if countries slammed the brakes on emissions today, the climate would continue to warm because carbon dioxide remains in the atmosphere for centuries. The gradual-but-relentless build-up of CO2 in the atmosphere since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution is an indication that humans are pumping it into the air faster than natural processes can remove the excess. - See more at: http://www.thomhartmann.com/forum/2012/05/climate-change-report-time-start-preparing-worst#sthash.qWWyCK2i.dpuf

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a) the world doesn't need saving, or

B) there is somebody else doing it?

 

There's always option c) What Greenpeace gets up to achieves nothing other than wasting other people's time and money and providing a illusionary glow of self satisfaction to the participants

 

So you think oil and gas companies should just go and do whatever they want, regardless of the effects on the environment? (spills, etc).

 

 

So based on you're twisted logic Greenpeace should have done the same to TNZ because they were sponsored by Emirates who burn large amounts of fossil fuels adding to global warming / climate change and deterioration of the ozone layer? Yes?

 

Greenpeace consistently cry wolf every time they provoke a response from someone, they then dramatize the situation for the camera.

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yeah, sure. as if the poor defenseless greenpiss "activists" (more like eco-terrorists imho) never asked for what they got for all their bs.

 

If the protest was not directed at the sailing world, then why interfere with a racing yacht?. The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business, nor is there any indication that they in any way did anything wrong. If you have a problem with Gazprom, direct your protests at Gazprom. Yet another example of tree huggers acting in a nonsensical manner and defeating their own purpose.

 

+1

you filthy twat. that's a very offensive perspective.

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The title of this thread and the front page piece are also both misleading when even the article quoted says that the Esmit tender threatened the RIB, not the activists.

You make a good point. Next time an angry man waving a knife appears in front of me, I'll give due consideration whether he is threatening myself or only my property.

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The title of this thread and the front page piece are also both misleading when even the article quoted says that the Esmit tender threatened the RIB, not the activists.

You make a good point. Next time an angry man waving a big knife appears in front of me, I'll give due consideration whether he is threatening myself or only my property.

 

You would also give some consideration as to why said angry man is waving a knife and even whether you provoked said angry man.

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And again I have no issue with people protesting Gazprom, but interfering with a boat racing and boring colregs is simply not the way to do it. There is a time and place for everything.

 

Given that "time" is running out on the environment anyone taking sponsorship $$$ from state/corporate entities like Gazprom are fair game IMO.

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The title of this thread and the front page piece are also both misleading when even the article quoted says that the Esmit tender threatened the RIB, not the activists.

You make a good point. Next time an angry man waving a big knife appears in front of me, I'll give due consideration whether he is threatening myself or only my property.

 

You would also give some consideration as to why said angry man is waving a knife and even whether you provoked said angry man.

You may also give consideration as to whether said angry man has a right to wield a knife in front of girlie Greenpeace protestors. Whatever his politics, pulling a knife, is not kosher. Rule 69, I say.

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yeah, sure. as if the poor defenseless greenpiss "activists" (more like eco-terrorists imho) never asked for what they got for all their bs.

 

 

If the protest was not directed at the sailing world, then why interfere with a racing yacht?. The sailors onboard have nothing to do with Gazprom or it's business, nor is there any indication that they in any way did anything wrong. If you have a problem with Gazprom, direct your protests at Gazprom. Yet another example of tree huggers acting in a nonsensical manner and defeating their own purpose.

 

+1

you filthy twat. that's a very offensive perspective.

Would it be offensive if I was to call you a fringe dwelling ,tofu eating, tree hugging , unemployable attention whoring fuckwit. The world isn't a fair place dickwad, but growing your hair, dodging the soap and eating lentils isn't going to change anything. Sitting around beating off your sad little vego dicks every time one of your retarded fellow drop kicks gets arrested might make you feel good but so would a steak and a blowjob from a girl, rather than one of your bearded eco fuck-buddies! Get a hair cut and a job cock breath.

Sorry if I offended you.

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What a ridiculous statement. Let's change the scenario just a bit and say it is an Olympic track meet and the protesters are protesting Nike because somebody thinks they promote child labor, and the runners are wearing Nike logo apparel or are even sponsored by Nike. Is that acceptable to disrupt the Olympics to protest Nike? The sailors are about racing the boat. Assigning a sponsors sins, real or imagined, to the athletes is wrong.

 

So you would be happy to accept money from, say, the "National Socialist Movement", on the understanding that you put a swastika on your mainsail? And your response to any protests would be "it's nothing to do with me"?

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A reference to Naziism or the demise of it, might be quite appropriate. The American alternate judge wrote of Norman Birkett's contribution to the prosecutions summing up that his contribution ... Although only an alternate member of the tribunal without a vote, his voice was heard in all of its deliberations, his hand drafted a large and most important part of its judgment... The contribution's main point was that all men were responsible and that at some point they could not continue to blame their superiors for their own actions. Corporate responsibilty is exactly the same and the majority of the world has corporate governance rules.

Whilst sailors might wish to be politically alienated from their corporate responsibilities these days it's impossible to ignore and nor should they, they are ambassadors for our sport. To get an idea of how others feel I think you have to place yourself on a boat sponsored by your worst political adversary. Then of course it's up to the individual involved - sailor, boat manufacturer or harbour worker - to decide how they themselves feel.

 

Whatever your feelings for Greenpeace these should be put aside, if it means we see races where thirty footers compete rather than multi-hull AC 72's then I for one will be happy - to see a race that's perhaps a little less exciting but one where everyone can hold their heads high should be the goal we all aim for.

 

I know you won't all agree and I hope you won't too, after all that's the beauty of free thought and speech.

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Who is that A-hole with the knive in his hand?

No matter the action, one do not use knives.

I think that Esmit with the crew should be banned for that, at least take the victory from them.

 

Would be highly suprised if this is left by ISAF without punishment. (or will the Gazprom $ speak)

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What a ridiculous statement. Let's change the scenario just a bit and say it is an Olympic track meet and the protesters are protesting Nike because somebody thinks they promote child labor, and the runners are wearing Nike logo apparel or are even sponsored by Nike. Is that acceptable to disrupt the Olympics to protest Nike? The sailors are about racing the boat. Assigning a sponsors sins, real or imagined, to the athletes is wrong.

They aren't just about sailing the boat. They are being paid for sailing a boat, which is also being paid for, and both are being paid in support of a political objective.

 

As for disrupting a track event, what's "disrupting"? Would unfurling a banner be disrupting? Chanting slogans? Lying on the track and refusing to move? There's a whole spectrum here. As far as I'm concerned, the first would certainly be acceptable, the second marginal, the third not.

 

There's a right to peaceful free assembly and expression in European countries (and every civilised country). That includes the right to be annoying and wrong. I'm not aware of any countries where there's a right to threaten life or property with a knife.

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Just out of interest how would a outside party to an event protest a boat purely on the basis that it is sponsored by someone they don't like. What rule is this in the sailing rule book?

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