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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

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blackjenner

All Is Lost: a review.

153 posts in this topic

All Is Lost, a film starring Robert Redford, where he utters only one line on screen, is well worth seeing. Though I had seen some sailors complaining about the movie on various, I decided to see it anyway.

 

Why? Sailors are a curious bunch. Some have little experience, some have crossed oceans, some just happen to own boats that never really leave the marina. In that spectrum of being a sailor, there is one thing they seem to have in common. They all have an opinion be it about anchors, anchoring, dinghy selection (how to spell dinghy), what sails to use, whether to use a drouge in heavy weather, how far to travel off shore when heading south along the pacific coast; it's a continuum of surety in opinions sometime informed and sometimes not.

 

Translated, this means that ten sailors, when faced with a hypothetical situation, will argue for ten different solutions to that problem. When faced with the story of another sailor, they will frequently proclaim from on high that their solution is the only one and the other sailors solutions are borne out of ignorance. It's a combination of the fact that there is often not one "right way" to solve a problem and the propensity for sailors to engage in intellectual dick sizing.

 

Such is the case with the sailor (we never know his name in the movie) in All Is Lost.

 

There are also criticisms of the movie too, for continuity and other reasons.

 

Let's just leave aside the face that bashing one of the most decent and realistic sailing movies, even though it has flaws, doesn't exactly support the complaint of, "why don't we see more good sailing movies? They all suck!"

 

This movie does not suck.

 

All Is Lost gives us a pretty realistic portrayal of a sailor facing his death at sea.

 

Is the sailor perfect? Does he always make the right decisions? Is he equipped and practiced enough for the voyage he is currently undertaking?

 

That decision being; sailing alone, crossing oceans, with times when no one is on watch.

 

He is not perfect and neither are all his decisions.

 

We don't know why he is out there in a Cal 40 that looks quite worn and underequipped.

 

The movie starts off with a calamity that could have been wholly prevented, were someone on watch.

 

From there we see him quietly, sometimes grimly, solve each problem as it presents itself.

 

There is damage to the boat, equipment failures, tactical decisions, injuries, some plain blind luck, and rotten luck.

 

Then again, luck isn't something that just happens to us. It's the product of our experience, preparedness and mindset. If we are lacking in some or all of those things, we have bad luck.

 

The sailor has bad luck.

 

Sometimes he is capable and makes decisions I would make. At other times, I'm not so sure I would take his course of action. At other times, it's something I would not do. Then again, I have not been out there. Since he is in the middle of the Indian Ocean, he got there so, he's seen and done things that I have not.

 

The sailor's bad luck doesn't make the movie bad. It turns it into a classroom, with lessons piled upon lessons, some of them brutal and direct, some of them subtle and hidden. It will take more than one watching to get them all.

 

Is the movie without continuity errors? No. Is it the perfect example of a prepared and experienced offshore sailor, facing the ocean with a high level of competence, serving as a perfect example to the public of how we wish to be seen? No.

 

And that is not a bad thing.

 

One can pick at the movie. One can even pick at Redford for his perceived liberalism (yes, some have done so already but that has nothing to do with a man lost at sea).

 

One thing that is true is that we are watching a man at sea, one who is where most of us will never go, dealing with each turn against him with a quiet determination that most of us would be lucky to demonstrate were we in his situation.

 

And, Robert Redford is perfect in this role.

 

And the lessons...the lessons. That is why it's worth watching.

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Thanks for the review. Well done

 

Will see the movie soon. I hope

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We saw the movie. For the most part, we can't argue with the review. The movie would have been made even better if somebody with serious sailing experience could have been on hand to share their expertise with the makers of the movie. That said, the movie is well worth seeing and will be the cause for many lively discussion here and around the table at the Y.C. And that is not a bad thing by a longshot.

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Thanks for the review Donn.

So I take it there are no naked women in it?

 

I'll review the latest ZATOICHI next week. Loved the en masse Japanese tap dancing scene.

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Black, Thanks for the thoughtful and well written review. I'll have to get out to see that when it get to town. It isn't here yet, I just checked.

 

Captain Phillips is still playing here, anyone see that yet?

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It's not a movie about sailing, so criticism at that level misses the point. It's an allegory, sailing as a metaphor for life. We travel through life solo, make good decisions, make bad decisions, have good luck, have bad luck, and die.

 

Step back and forget about sailing.

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It's not a movie about sailing, so criticism at that level misses the point. It's an allegory, sailing as an metaphor for life. We travel through life solo, make good decisions, make bad decisions, have good luck, have bad luck, and die.

 

Step back and forget about sailing.

That's not a bad take on it.

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Black, Thanks for the thoughtful and well written review. I'll have to get out to see that when it get to town. It isn't here yet, I just checked.

 

Captain Phillips is still playing here, anyone see that yet?

I watched Captain Phillips last night. It moves fast through the entire show. I think there was some liberties taken with the story, but it was well worth the time to watch it.

 

All Is Lost has not arrived here yet. I plan on seeing it too when it gets here. Thanks for the review.

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Black, Thanks for the thoughtful and well written review. I'll have to get out to see that when it get to town. It isn't here yet, I just checked.

 

Captain Phillips is still playing here, anyone see that yet?

I watched Captain Phillips last night. It moves fast through the entire show. I think there was some liberties taken with the story, but it was well worth the time to watch it.

 

All Is Lost has not arrived here yet. I plan on seeing it too when it gets here. Thanks for the review.

 

Thanks WR, the folks around here I know who that have seen Captain Phillips said it was good.

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I probably would have taken the the time to see it, but Redford using his position in life most recently calling out folks that he does not agree with racists, means no $ from me for his work.

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I probably would have taken the the time to see it, but Redford using his position in life most recently calling out folks that he does not agree with racists, means no $ from me for his work.

 

 

I'm with Wash. He won't get a dime from me.

I had to google and read the article in USA Today to see what all the Redford fuss was about...and I still don't. But then, I'm Canadian.

In any case, I doubt I will see the film unless it comes round to Netflix.

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I probably would have taken the the time to see it, but Redford using his position in life most recently calling out folks that he does not agree with racists, means no $ from me for his work.

I'm a conservative, but when did Redford categorically 'call out folks he did not agree with racists?' This reference doesn't support the view IMO http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/10/16/obama-robert-redford-cnn-interview-racism/2993485/

 

I haven't seen the movie yet, though I am sure I will paid or not. But from the reviews and interviews I've seen, this post makes the central point. Sailing is not the point, it's "a metaphor for life."

 

It's not a movie about sailing, so criticism at that level misses the point. It's an allegory, sailing as a metaphor for life. We travel through life solo, make good decisions, make bad decisions, have good luck, have bad luck, and die.

 

Step back and forget about sailing.

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I probably would have taken the the time to see it, but Redford using his position in life most recently calling out folks that he does not agree with racists, means no $ from me for his work.

I like the way you think and have also noted the absurdity of certain high visibility people in Hollywood and in politics complaining about the lack of civility from those they disagree with, while simultaneously hinting or even outright stating that these same people must be racists, which to me is just about the most un-civil name you could call someone. The problem is that if I boycotted all of the silly gooses in Hollywood in Washington who very routinely engage in and support such behavior, the list of movies that I could see would dwindle to almost none, and if I included news outlets that attempt to further that stereotype, I would only get one side of every issue. So, while I just don't take anyone seriously who makes such hateful statements about someone or a group of people, I also don't boycott them. To do so would be to both limit my own entertainment and news options, and give them more credibility than they deserve. After all, why should I care in the least what ANY person whose area of expertise is singing or dancing or pretending to be someone else thinks about any issue outside of what they have become expert in? If someone stuck a microphone in the face of a noted economist and and instead of asking about his area of expertise, was willing to pretend that his thoughts on dance steps or acting talent were any more valid than the average man on the street, we'd all see it as absurd and a waste of time. But for some reason, actors and other entertainers seem to feel qualified to hold forth on subjects they know almost nothing about and much of the press gives them way more credibility than they deserve. It's a very odd phenomenon but not limited to Redford.

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jt: My sentiments exactly.

+2. Makes much more sense than boycotts IMO.

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If you don't think Redford was accurate when he said racism lies underneath a great deal of the fervent hatred of Obama's policies, you're not paying attention to how this country works.

 

Good movie though.

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That's just your opinion Alan and way too general. You cannot popssibly know that. Silly conjecture in my opinion.

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After all, why should I care in the least what ANY person whose area of expertise is singing or dancing or pretending to be someone else thinks about any issue outside of what they have become expert in? If someone stuck a microphone in the face of a noted economist and and instead of asking about his area of expertise, was willing to pretend that his thoughts on dance steps or acting talent were any more valid than the average man on the street, we'd all see it as absurd and a waste of time.

 

That's why I think only political scientists should be allowed to vote.

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That's just your opinion Alan and way too general. You cannot popssibly know that. Silly conjecture in my opinion.

I have to tell you Bob, having spent most of the past 5 years on the road in this country, I honestly think anyone who doesn't realize the level of racism here lives in some kind of an ivory tower, or perhaps a beautiful, log-strewn beach.

 

This country is FULL of fucking racists, and it's not confined to the white trash in the deep south. There are dozens of people inside the sport itself - well educated people who should know better - that I don't consider friends anymore because I'm tired of hearing about 'boat niggers' or 'that owner jewing me down on price.' And those are the nice ones!

 

Spend a few weeks in South Carolina to get to know the less smart ones. As a jew, it's fucking scary sometimes. As a black man in a major position of power, I couldn't even imagine it.

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I think you guys are wrong to focus on Robert Redford in criticizing the depiction of sailing or seamanship in the movie. He didn't write, direct, or produce it. He doesn't even have and Exec Producer credit. If there are no EPIRBs, liferaft, decent radio, satphone, or whatever, blame the writer.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2017038/fullcredits?ref_=ttco_sa_1

 

I'm going to see it this week!

 

Glad to see they could make this movie that is stirring up interest, with a major star, for only $9M, peanuts in Hollywoodland.

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FFS, only on SA could a discussion about a movie with one actor and no dialog get ratholed into a flamewar about racism. Give it a rest.

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Clean: are you actually thinking for me? I appreciate that but I can assure you that I can think for myself. Don't need your help. Don't want your help. Your opinions are just opinions.

That's sort of my point. Why should I care what you think about it?

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Sell it somewhere else Clean. The Racism Card is crutch for not having a valid argument. So you met people that offended your delicate sense? My God! Call out the PC Gendarmes! Harden the Fuck Up and stick to the thread.

 

Will Museler

 

That's just your opinion Alan and way too general. You cannot popssibly know that. Silly conjecture in my opinion.

I have to tell you Bob, having spent most of the past 5 years on the road in this country, I honestly think anyone who doesn't realize the level of racism here lives in some kind of an ivory tower, or perhaps a beautiful, log-strewn beach.

 

This country is FULL of fucking racists, and it's not confined to the white trash in the deep south. There are dozens of people inside the sport itself - well educated people who should know better - that I don't consider friends anymore because I'm tired of hearing about 'boat niggers' or 'that owner jewing me down on price.' And those are the nice ones!

 

Spend a few weeks in South Carolina to get to know the less smart ones. As a jew, it's fucking scary sometimes. As a black man in a major position of power, I couldn't even imagine it.

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This country is FULL of fucking racists, and it's not confined to the white trash in the deep south. There are dozens of people inside the sport itself - well educated people who should know better - that I don't consider friends anymore because I'm tired of hearing about 'boat niggers' or 'that owner jewing me down on price.'

...and don't forgot all those "hateful racists" who insult my WASP heritage by talking about "welching" on their bets! Boo hoo hoo.....HTFU!

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Somehow when I pushed the "post" button it occurred to me that Clean is going to turn this into an argument where he is going to put me in the position of defending reacism. At least I got a chuckle out of it.

And what the hell does living on a beach have to do with it?

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You beach people are all racists! I thought that was common knowledge.... :ph34r:

Somehow when I pushed the "post" button it occurred to me that Clean is going to turn this into an argument where he is going to put me in the position of defending reacism. At least I got a chuckle out of it.

And what the hell does living on a beach have to do with it?

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It would be a cool application of internet technology if once a forum topic diverged away from the initial topic completely, it would automatically split into another thread. It could actually go either way. It would either be helpful or insane.

 

On topic:

 

Is this a movie that I should see on the big screen, or wait for it to hit netflix?

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Clean: are you actually thinking for me? I appreciate that but I can assure you that I can think for myself. Don't need your help. Don't want your help. Your opinions are just opinions.

That's sort of my point. Why should I care what you think about it?

You shouldn't care, and you don't. And I'm not thinking for you at all.

 

What I am doing is wondering just where people live that they don't think racism is a huge part of Obama's polarizing effect on America, because in my travels, it is impossible to avoid that conclusion.

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It would be a cool application of internet technology if once a forum topic diverged away from the initial topic completely, it would automatically split into another thread. It could actually go either way. It would either be helpful or insane.

 

On topic:

 

Is this a movie that I should see on the big screen, or wait for it to hit netflix?

 

 

I suggest a bigger screen. Some of the scope of view is worth it. We paid matinee prices.

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I just walked the dogs. That's where I do my deep thinking and I figured it out.

 

I'm a "beachist". I hate everyone who doesn't live on a beach.

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Clean: are you actually thinking for me? I appreciate that but I can assure you that I can think for myself. Don't need your help. Don't want your help. Your opinions are just opinions.

That's sort of my point. Why should I care what you think about it?

You shouldn't care, and you don't. And I'm not thinking for you at all.

 

What I am doing is wondering just where people live that they don't think racism is a huge part of Obama's polarizing effect on America, because in my travels, it is impossible to avoid that conclusion.

Interesting, because I'm willing to bet that just about nobody travels all across this country more than I do (unfortunately) and I don't see it that way. I do see a lot of people who don't want to be bothered by actually examining the arguments against some of Obama's policies so take the easy way out and assign serious differences of opinion to racism. It becomes much easier to dismiss them rather than having to actually formulate a cogent counterargument.

 

But assuming you're right about racism being "a huge part of Obama's polarizing effect of America," and also considering that he's half white and half black, which group do you find to have more racist tendencies, the 95% of blacks who supported him, or the 40% of whites who supported him, or possibly the 5% of blacks who didn't or the 60% of whites who didn't?

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I just walked the dogs. That's where I do my deep thinking and I figured it out.

 

I'm a "beachist". I hate everyone who doesn't live on a beach.

Time for me to go outside and give my dog a bath, which she endures but absolutely hates and has the most pitiful, abused look on her face throughout the entire procedure. Lest anyone accuse me of only abusing my poor dog because she's half "chocolate" lab, I want it on the record that she's also half golden retriever so I'm clearly not putting her through this horrible abuse out of any racism on my part against her chocolate half. She simply is starting to smell a bit too "doggy" for my wife's happiness and I have this crazy idea/hope/delusion that my wife will think it's quite romantic that I bathed the dog while she was gone so she didn't have to be involved. Normally I don't feel the need to defend exactly why I'm giving my half chocolate lab a bath but it seems that in today's political environment you just can't be too careful....

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...and don't forgot all those "hateful racists" who insult my WASP heritage by talking about "welching" on their bets! Boo hoo hoo.....HTFU!

 

 

If you are Welsh, you are not an Anglo Saxon, you are a Celt. Just sayin'. B)

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My son Max is a son of a beachist.

I'm an east coast beachist, and I believe all beaches are equal (but some are longer than others).

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Clean: are you actually thinking for me? I appreciate that but I can assure you that I can think for myself. Don't need your help. Don't want your help. Your opinions are just opinions.

That's sort of my point. Why should I care what you think about it?

And why should anyone care what you think?

 

Good grief, I am usually the last to agree with Clean on a lot of stuff, and am certainly not a fan of the current Administration's politics, but if you don't think there is racism in this country that is still sadly alive and well and impacting politics you may want to consider expanding your circle a bit to get some more context.

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Good grief, I am usually the last to agree with Clean on a lot of stuff, and am certainly not a fan of the current Administration's politics, but if you don't think there is racism in this country that is still sadly alive and well and impacting politics you may want to consider expanding your circle a bit to get some more context.

+1. We might debate the extent of racism (I don't claim to know definitively), and I hope it's not as prevalent as Clean's post suggests, but to act as though it doesn't exist or it's not an overriding factor in how a significant (minority I suspect) number of folks view Obama seems very naive. I hope most who disagree with Obama have reasoned differences, but the visceral hatred some folks have for Obama isn't simply ideological difference...

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I probably would have taken the the time to see it, but Redford using his position in life most recently calling out folks that he does not agree with racists, means no $ from me for his work.

I like the way you think and have also noted the absurdity of certain high visibility people in Hollywood and in politics complaining about the lack of civility from those they disagree with, while simultaneously hinting or even outright stating that these same people must be racists, which to me is just about the most un-civil name you could call someone. The problem is that if I boycotted all of the silly gooses in Hollywood in Washington who very routinely engage in and support such behavior, the list of movies that I could see would dwindle to almost none, and if I included news outlets that attempt to further that stereotype, I would only get one side of every issue. So, while I just don't take anyone seriously who makes such hateful statements about someone or a group of people, I also don't boycott them. To do so would be to both limit my own entertainment and news options, and give them more credibility than they deserve. After all, why should I care in the least what ANY person whose area of expertise is singing or dancing or pretending to be someone else thinks about any issue outside of what they have become expert in? If someone stuck a microphone in the face of a noted economist and and instead of asking about his area of expertise, was willing to pretend that his thoughts on dance steps or acting talent were any more valid than the average man on the street, we'd all see it as absurd and a waste of time. But for some reason, actors and other entertainers seem to feel qualified to hold forth on subjects they know almost nothing about and much of the press gives them way more credibility than they deserve. It's a very odd phenomenon but not limited to Redford.

 

 

So where does that leave us with the outspoken anti-LGBT author Orson Scott Card and the upcoming Ender's Game?

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Someone please toss the poor cretin a fish. Maybe he'll troll somewhere else.

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I hope most who disagree with Obama have reasoned differences, but the visceral hatred some folks have for Obama isn't simply ideological difference...

...and I hope most who agree with Obama have reasoned agreements, but the visceral adulation some folks have for Obama isn't simply due to ideological agreement. Why does the assumption so frequently seem to be that racism cuts only one way?

 

Of course there are still racists of every stripe in this country and that should be an embarrassment to each and every one of us, but ONE side seems to think it's their birthright to point fingers and call racism when they have no proof whatsoever that a disagreement is anything but over legitimate policy differences. If more of an attempt were made to understand the viewpoint of political foes, rather than attempting to libel them with accusations of something as hateful as racism (or communism), we MIGHT occasionally come to agreement that would be good for all of us.

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I think Card is a dick but my 10 year old kid liked his story and asked me to read it so we could discuss it together. I liked it and plan to see the movie with my boy too. In addition to bringing a father and son closer together, Card also prompted a discussion about why he doesn't think our lesbian friends, who my son adores, should be able to get married. Now there's one more young person coming up who'll help relegate Card and his ilk to the dustbin of history thanks, in part, to Card himself. I'd call that a win-win. You think Card would rather have the royalties he'll get from me or the world he prefers? He's not gonna get both.

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...and don't forgot all those "hateful racists" who insult my WASP heritage by talking about "welching" on their bets! Boo hoo hoo.....HTFU!

 

 

If you are Welsh, you are not an Anglo Saxon, you are a Celt. Just sayin'. B)

I just KNEW that somebody would put it all together about my WASP great, great, great, grandmothers virtue and who she might have chosen to allow to come visit when her hut seemed so cold and lonely! I guess I should admit that I'm actually part Celt, part Anglo, and part Scottish, basically a mongrel, so does that mean I can't still be horribly offended whenever I overhear someone mention welching on their bet or do you have to be 100% Celt to qualify to be sensitive to this horrible slur?

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So where does that leave us with the outspoken anti-LGBT author Orson Scott Card and the upcoming Ender's Game?

 

 

I've read several of his books and also heard him talk about his career and writing in general, and it hard to connect either with his stated political views.

 

From the interviews he sounds like a smart, reasonable guy, very interesting and engaging. He has also taught a lot. And several of his books would lead one to think he is a bleeding-heart liberal. Yet the opposite is the case! Go figure.

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Wess:

 

"And why should anyone care what you think?"

 

Exactly! Fuck. That's my point. Nobody should care about what I think about politics. Except me. If I was a brilliant industrial leader or a seasoned diplomat in foriegn policy it might be different. But I'm a yacht designer. Robert Redford is a movie actor.

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Re Racism: I don't think Clean is getting all PA on us, I agree. And I could outline all of the places it's come up, but this is a movie review thread.

 

Re Movie: Hmm. I left the movie really upset. The idea that a man that age could leave people who love him to pursue his dream and not have what seem to me the basic safety equipment and seamanship skills was preposterous. I was upset because I thought that Hollywood had blown a chance to show what sailing is all about.

 

Then I read the reviews. And then I thought about what sailing is all about. It IS about preparation, it is about survival, it is about solving problems. And there is usually something I forget when I go sailing. So it's realistic to think that he wasn't perfectly prepared. Obviously he was grossly unprepared, but most people don't know that. And what they do see is his battle with life, his systematic approach to fixing problems, and his frustrations about the problems.

 

For stranger in a strange land movies - the third of this type of movie in this 2013 Oscar season - the skill is in showing how the protagonist is struck by his or her unusual surroundings and how they dealt with it. In the case of Sandra Bullock and Robert Redford, they were basically all alone. With Tom Hanks, he had kidnappers. I'll be interested to see where the awards go. Personally I thought Tom Hanks pulled off an incredible performance. RR did all his own stunts and at 70 something years old, that's pretty incredible.

 

So hindsight, and stepping back from the basic sailor frustrations, is helping me realize the movie was challenging for me, which I like. And it will make for some good YC convos over the holiday season.

 

Cheers y'all. And sail safe.

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I hope most who disagree with Obama have reasoned differences, but the visceral hatred some folks have for Obama isn't simply ideological difference...

...and I hope most who agree with Obama have reasoned agreements, but the visceral adulation some folks have for Obama isn't simply due to ideological agreement. Why does the assumption so frequently seem to be that racism cuts only one way? Who said it does? Someone else entered racism into the thread as a topic, that's all.

 

Of course there are still racists of every stripe in this country and that should be an embarrassment to each and every one of us, but ONE side seems to think it's their birthright to point fingers and call racism when they have no proof whatsoever that a disagreement is anything but over legitimate policy differences. If more of an attempt were made to understand the viewpoint of political foes, rather than attempting to libel them with accusations of something as hateful as racism (or communism), we MIGHT occasionally come to agreement that would be good for all of us.

Agreed.

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You think Card would rather have the royalties he'll get from me or the world he prefers? He's not gonna get both.

I think he will be OK without your $1.47

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jt:

Racism is the easy argument. Of course it exists. I live on an indian reservation. But to be used as the knee jerk argument against everyone who disagrees with our President when you are ducking the real issues is really pretty short sighted in my opinion.

 

I happen to be a huge, huge, huge fan of Dr. Ben Carson. He's black. But race has zero to do with what I think of Dr. Carson.

How can I be anti Obama because he's black and pro Carson when he is black?

I look at the man and what he does. Then I form an opinion.

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And you are like 30 or 40 or 50 or 60% of America, which is to say, not racist. Then there's the rest.

 

My point was merely to agree with Redford's about Obama and racism as brought up by some tea party/redford boycotter at the beginning of this thread.

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Nice try Clean but I'm not buying it. You used a damn big brush painting your argument originally. Now you are doing the walk it back thing.

 

I'm not keen on people who barely know me trying to paint me with any brush.

 

But Ok, I'll take you on face value. No problem here.

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jt:

Racism is the easy argument. Of course it exists. I live on an indian reservation. But to be used as the knee jerk argument against everyone who disagrees with our President when you are ducking the real issues is really pretty short sighted in my opinion.

 

I happen to be a huge, huge, huge fan of Dr. Ben Carson. He's black. But race has zero to do with what I think of Dr. Carson.

How can I be anti Obama because he's black and pro Carson when he is black?

I look at the man and what he does. Then I form an opinion.

I couldn't agree more on both counts. Broad brush accusations of racism are too often used as a substitute for a valid argument against someone on the other side of the political fence, and I too think that Dr. Carson is awesome. Anyone who has never heard him speak is missing out on something pretty special, and if they disagree with him, they can't exactly call him a racist!

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So gang, what about the fucking movie?

No shit!

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Movie?

 

 

Yeah, sumthin about where cows flash a victory sign …. I think….

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That's just your opinion Alan and way too general. You cannot popssibly know that. Silly conjecture in my opinion.

Oh come on, you of all people cannot possibly be that fucking naive. Have you ever seen a WHITE president asked repeatedly to prove his citizenship? No, I thought not.

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I guess the fundamental question is - will it scare the crap out of my family if they see it? Or can I tell them we are better prepared and always have more people on board so someone is always awake on watch...

 

Probably some time before we get a chance to view it.

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Strings:

Now you are painting with a very broad brush and I can tell you for sure it does not work. It's very easy to do but it is stupid.

 

Do Not assume! You do not know me and you sure as hell do not know what I think. If you think you do then you are ignorant and you are very comfortable displaying your ignorance.

 

You have no ikdea what I think.

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That's just your opinion Alan and way too general. You cannot popssibly know that. Silly conjecture in my opinion.

Oh come on, you of all people cannot possibly be that fucking naive. Have you ever seen a WHITE president asked repeatedly to prove his citizenship? No, I thought not.

 

I don't want to wade into the rest of this argument, but:

 

It's been a while, but the name you're looking for is Chester Arthur. He was repeatedly accused of being Canadian (over birth location, not race). A fairly obscure president serving from 1881 to 1885, but there you go.

 

And the Democrats, back in 1967, had objections to Romney's father because the guy was born in Mexico (over birth location, not race). Not elected president, obviously.

 

And today, among the allegations against Ted Cruz (other than jackassery) is the question of whether his particular brand of citizenship qualifies as "natural born" per the 14th amendment. It probably does, but this doesn't come up often, not that he'd ever make it far enough for it to become a serious issue anyway.

 

Americans are quite xenophobic on occasion, but the race thing is flexible: depending on time it can be the Italians, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, Blacks, Mexicans, Canadians, you name it.

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That's just your opinion Alan and way too general. You cannot popssibly know that. Silly conjecture in my opinion.

 

Oh come on, you of all people cannot possibly be that fucking naive. Have you ever seen a WHITE president asked repeatedly to prove his citizenship? No, I thought not.

I don't want to wade into the rest of this argument, but:

 

It's been a while, but the name you're looking for is Chester Arthur. He was repeatedly accused of being Canadian (over birth location, not race). A fairly obscure president serving from 1881 to 1885, but there you go.

 

And the Democrats, back in 1967, had objections to Romney's father because the guy was born in Mexico (over birth location, not race). Not elected president, obviously.

 

And today, among the allegations against Ted Cruz (other than jackassery) is the question of whether his particular brand of citizenship qualifies as "natural born" per the 14th amendment. It probably does, but this doesn't come up often, not that he'd ever make it far enough for it to become a serious issue anyway.

 

Americans are quite xenophobic on occasion, but the race thing is flexible: depending on time it can be the Italians, Irish, Japanese, Chinese, Blacks, Mexicans, Canadians, you name it.

I was just about to post this from wikipedia:

 

"The family's frequent moves later spawned accusations that Chester Arthur was not a native-born citizen of the United States. When Arthur was nominated for Vice President in 1880, a New York attorney and political opponent, Arthur P. Hinman, initially speculated that Arthur was born in Ireland and did not come to the United States until he was fourteen years old. Had that been true, Arthur would have been constitutionally ineligible for the Vice Presidency under the United States Constitution's natural-born citizen clause.[10][c][11] When Hinman's original story did not take root, he spread a new rumor that Arthur was born in Canada. This claim, too, failed to gain credence.[11]"

 

Romain

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And you are like 30 or 40 or 50 or 60% of America, which is to say, not racist. Then there's the rest.

 

My point was merely to agree with Redford's about Obama and racism as brought up by some tea party/redford boycotter at the beginning of this thread.

 

Hey Clean...

 

First off...

 

I am "mixed-race"....

 

And one of those "Southern White Trash" folks that has no like for Obama or his policies that are wreaking havoc on this country.

 

Fuck YOU for that RACIST statement.

 

Lived in Sanford Florida back in the sixties as a kid. Just a bike ride away from what was then an orange grove but is now the ghetto-ish townhouse complex where Trayvon was shot.

 

As mine was the darkest face in an otherwise lilly white world, I can wax eloquent about the subtle, and not so subtle, aspects of racism...and the inbred jerks who revel in it.

 

With that "white trash" statement, and the further broad brush crap you've spewed here, its obvious that you are right up there with some of the worst of that ilk pal.

 

FWIW...the worst actual racism I ever encountered was in Middletown RI....Next worse was in Alameda Calif.

 

Lastly the most intolerant xenophobic assholes around today are the elitists like Redford.

 

But I will probably go see the movie.

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I was just about to post this from wikipedia:

 

I suppose I should clarify what I meant. Racism clearly exists, and some of the people throwing allegations against Obama are obviously racially motivated.

 

Ignorant racists these days are to be watched but in my opinion mostly not a huge threat on the national political level, which is not to say that I mean to dismiss the very real threat they pose on smaller scales in a political or even immediately physical sense.

 

As Dylan said, though, ignorant racists are useful tools for others pulling the strings even if the puppetmasters have other motivations and goals in mind; "He's only a pawn in their game."

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Strings:

Now you are painting with a very broad brush and I can tell you for sure it does not work. It's very easy to do but it is stupid.

 

Do Not assume! You do not know me and you sure as hell do not know what I think. If you think you do then you are ignorant and you are very comfortable displaying your ignorance.

 

You have no ikdea what I think.

Screw you Perry. You're the guy that started this shitstorm by being COMPLETELY DISMISSIVE of the idea that a great deal of the ire displayed against Mr. Obama might be due to the color of his skin.

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Strings:

Now you are painting with a very broad brush and I can tell you for sure it does not work. It's very easy to do but it is stupid.

 

Do Not assume! You do not know me and you sure as hell do not know what I think. If you think you do then you are ignorant and you are very comfortable displaying your ignorance.

 

You have no ikdea what I think.

Screw you Perry. You're the guy that started this shitstorm by being COMPLETELY DISMISSIVE of the idea that a great deal of the ire displayed against Mr. Obama might be due to the color of his skin.

 

 

This is the bullshit I try to get away from by sailing!!!

 

And when you singlehand like "Our man" then no one can refute that you are the worlds' fastest sailor and best singer!!!

 

No Strings...

 

I will call a counter BS.

 

There is WAYYYY too much of the "R" word getting thrown around in an effort to tar what is in fact legitimate disagreement.

 

Why is it ignored that Obama is NOT "Black" except by self identification!

 

He is in fact "Mixed Race"

 

(like me)

 

Culturally the guy grew up "White"...and Elitist!!!!

 

Which shows in his hypocritical crap like: "I can fly in my tricked out 747 to play a round of golf with Tiger....on the taxpayers' dime...but you peons out there need to "eat your peas".

 

Fuck. Him!

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Not sure if discussion like this is going to solve a lot problems relating racism.

I think there is a bigger picture to this.

We live on a planet with 7 billion people and counting (fast). The place is getting pretty crowded and resources are getting scarcer rapidly with a more and more endangered environment for the lot.

We better find ways to better get along with each other and understand/accept there are many ways one can live a life, or what kind of colour of skin, clothes or whatever one wears for that matter.

In the end or should I better say in the beginning we are all in it for the same course. We are all on the same side. we are in this together on this small exquisite wonderful precious planet in the universe.

If we understand that when we share the available resources more evenly and respect the hell out off this beautiful planet: the chances we're not gonna fight for it are way, way higher.

 

So HTFU………………………………… please?

 

Well.. I'm pretty much out of morals for the rest of the day, Sorry.

 

Still not sure if I'm gonna see the movie though, but thanks for the review.

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We better find ways to better get along with each other and understand/accept there are many ways one can live a life, or what kind of colour of skin, clothes or whatever one wears for that matter.

In the end or should I better say in the beginning we are all in it for the same course. We are all on the same side. we are in this together on this small exquisite wonderful precious planet in the universe.

 

 

Hah!

 

Asking humans to not be..."Human"... isn't gonna go far!

 

May as well take off on a solo circumnavigation...

 

And watch out for wayward containers!!!!

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...and don't forgot all those "hateful racists" who insult my WASP heritage by talking about "welching" on their bets! Boo hoo hoo.....HTFU!

 

 

If you are Welsh, you are not an Anglo Saxon, you are a Celt. Just sayin'. B)

I just KNEW that somebody would put it all together about my WASP great, great, great, grandmothers virtue and who she might have chosen to allow to come visit when her hut seemed so cold and lonely! I guess I should admit that I'm actually part Celt, part Anglo, and part Scottish, basically a mongrel, so does that mean I can't still be horribly offended whenever I overhear someone mention welching on their bet or do you have to be 100% Celt to qualify to be sensitive to this horrible slur?

Ahem. I have some, what may be bad, news for you: If you're Welsh, English and Scottish altogether then you're... ...British.

 

So sorry for your trouble :wub:

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Dear Abbey...My president had a father who was an anti-colonialist, a mother and grandparents who were communists, a mentor who is a liberation theology preacher, a biographer who is a convicted terrorist and close family members who are undocumented immigrants. My question is, should I tell my grandchildren that President Obama is not a sailor?

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I guess the fundamental question is - will it scare the crap out of my family if they see it? Or can I tell them we are better prepared and always have more people on board so someone is always awake on watch...

 

Probably some time before we get a chance to view it.

Just remind them that it is a movie; it is fiction. Yes, shit happens occasionally to cruisers, but not as often as it happens to landlubbers.

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Dear Abbey...My president had a father who was an anti-colonialist, a mother and grandparents who were communists, a mentor who is a liberation theology preacher, a biographer who is a convicted terrorist and close family members who are undocumented immigrants. My question is, should I tell my grandchildren that President Obama is not a sailor?

:lol:

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I guess the fundamental question is - will it scare the crap out of my family if they see it? Or can I tell them we are better prepared and always have more people on board so someone is always awake on watch...

 

Probably some time before we get a chance to view it.

Cars 1.5 fatalities per million miles driven resulting in over thirty thousand deaths

27 deaths on sailboats in 2012 according to USCoast guard

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Jebus, I used to think of CA as my little refuge from the rest of the SA forums. You know, the kinder, gentler forum. I feel so, so violated!

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Jebus, I used to think of CA as my little refuge from the rest of the SA forums. You know, the kinder, gentler forum. I feel so, so violated!

 

80% (or even all) of this thread should be moved to PA, where I never ever go. Ever.

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Jebus, I used to think of CA as my little refuge from the rest of the SA forums. You know, the kinder, gentler forum. I feel so, so violated!

 

80% (or even all) of this thread should be moved to PA, where I never ever go. Ever.

 

I can't move part of a thread...

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Flush the whole this and start over, I'm sure the PA folks will run with it.

 

 

Jebus, I used to think of CA as my little refuge from the rest of the SA forums. You know, the kinder, gentler forum. I feel so, so violated!

 

80% (or even all) of this thread should be moved to PA, where I never ever go. Ever.

 

I can't move part of a thread...

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Jebus, I used to think of CA as my little refuge from the rest of the SA forums. You know, the kinder, gentler forum. I feel so, so violated!

 

80% (or even all) of this thread should be moved to PA, where I never ever go. Ever.

 

I can't move part of a thread...

 

Too bad, it went into the crapper about post #14. We'll just let this sink into oblivion, then.

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.

Too bad, it went into the crapper about post #14. We'll just let this sink into oblivion, then.

 

All is lost.

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Jebus, I used to think of CA as my little refuge from the rest of the SA forums. You know, the kinder, gentler forum. I feel so, so violated!

80% (or even all) of this thread should be moved to PA, where I never ever go. Ever.

[Like]

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What about the beachists?

 

On second thought...let it die.

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I guess the fundamental question is - will it scare the crap out of my family if they see it? Or can I tell them we are better prepared and always have more people on board so someone is always awake on watch...

 

Probably some time before we get a chance to view it.

Cars 1.5 fatalities per million miles driven resulting in over thirty thousand deaths

27 deaths on sailboats in 2012 according to USCoast guard

Actually (in 2910) you are two orders of magnitude off . . . it's 1.1 fatalities per 100 million miles driven (source: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx). Despite the common perception, driving is astonishingly safe. The deaths rack up only because humans drive so many miles (trillions every year). Sailing is much more risky than driving, but is still very safe . . . Ranking about even with golf in both fatality and injury rates, and way way lower than high school cheerleading or alpine climbing.

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I guess the fundamental question is - will it scare the crap out of my family if they see it? Or can I tell them we are better prepared and always have more people on board so someone is always awake on watch...

 

Probably some time before we get a chance to view it.

Cars 1.5 fatalities per million miles driven resulting in over thirty thousand deaths

27 deaths on sailboats in 2012 according to USCoast guard

Actually (in 2910) you are two orders of magnitude off . . . it's 1.1 fatalities per 100 million miles driven (source: http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx). Despite the common perception, driving is astonishingly safe. The deaths rack up only because humans drive so many miles (trillions every year). Sailing is much more risky than driving, but is still very safe . . . Ranking about even with golf in both fatality and injury rates, and way way lower than high school cheerleading or alpine climbing.

 

Meanwhile we worry about child abductions and all sorts of other terrible but rare occurrences.

 

With repetitive so-called sub-concussions causing measurable and permanent brain injury, things are not looking good for football, so maybe cheerleading will go along with it.

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Wish I could get All Lost up in this...

 

(I'm sorry, I fought to the end...)

 

lingerie26n-2-web.jpg

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Makes me want to be the quarterback.

 

" Down,,,Hut 1, hut 2, hut 3,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,hut 23,548"

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Slight thread drift. Happy birthday Ish. Hope your day is (was) going better than this topic.

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Slight thread drift. Happy birthday Ish. Hope your day is (was) going better than this topic.

 

Thanks, Vik. My day is going brilliantly. I had a run to the local dump with a bunch of old plastic things, another run to the composting place with a load of gardening debris...it feels good to get two carloads of crap out of your life on a celebratory day.

As a bonus, I have ribeye steaks, some fresh scallops, a decent bottle of Cab Sauv, and a wife to share it with tonight in front of the fire. Life is good. All is not lost here.

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Slight thread drift. Happy birthday Ish. Hope your day is (was) going better than this topic.

 

Hey Ish, Happy Birthday from the Cape!

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Slight thread drift. Happy birthday Ish. Hope your day is (was) going better than this topic.

 

Hey Ish, Happy Birthday from the Cape!

 

Thanks, Ken. From one end to the other...

 

Just as an interesting aside to bury in an obscure thread, my wife gave me a couple of Lenny Breau CD's, one of which was his first professional recording at 21. His backing band was Rick Danko on acoustic bass, and Levon Helm on drums.

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Slight thread drift. Happy birthday Ish. Hope your day is (was) going better than this topic.

Slight thread drift?

 

How about them Red Sox?

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Slight thread drift. Happy birthday Ish. Hope your day is (was) going better than this topic.

 

Hey Ish, Happy Birthday from the Cape!

 

Thanks, Ken. From one end to the other...

 

Just as an interesting aside to bury in an obscure thread, my wife gave me a couple of Lenny Breau CD's, one of which was his first professional recording at 21. His backing band was Rick Danko on acoustic bass, and Levon Helm on drums.

 

Wow, talk about a band! (The Band?) Enjoy them.

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Slight thread drift. Happy birthday Ish. Hope your day is (was) going better than this topic.

 

Hey Ish, Happy Birthday from the Cape!

Yup.....saw that. Happy BD Ish from the big smoke! Have a good one.

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Another circle around the sun Ish: and you live!

 

Just saw All is Lost-

 

I'm throwing my vote, movie wise, ( at this late date!) towards Redford playing the character as an aging alcoholic.

 

Not like we know any sailors like that.

 

;)

 

He knew what to do- he just couldn't get ahead of it.

 

When the Fantasy gets ahead of the Reality. (Would there be an industry without that?)

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Another circle around the sun Ish: and you live!

 

Just saw All is Lost-

 

I'm throwing my vote, movie wise, ( at this late date!) towards Redford playing the character as an aging alcoholic.

 

Not like we know any sailors like that.

 

;)

 

He knew what to do- he just couldn't get ahead of it.

 

When the Fantasy gets ahead of the Reality. (Would there be an industry without that?)

 

Thanks Paul, for irrevocably tying my birthday to a story about an aging alcoholic.

 

At least I wouldn't be up the mast with a crescent wrench to fix my VHF connection. A 12" pipe wrench is the tool for that, with an oxyacetylene torch for backup...

 

 

 

 

It's all good. :)

Fuck, I'm still alive. What more could I want?

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