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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

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sully75

Canadian Maritime Charts

24 posts in this topic

I'm planning a trip to Newfoundland/Labrador next summer. I'm a bit frustrated in finding charts. Seems Canadian charts are crazy expensive from the government (particularly the electronic ones). No chartbooks seem available. I'm confused as to how people get charts for going to Canada. I do have an aquaintance who has copies of charts and I can copy them. I was just wondering what the general plan is. Maybe people have enough money to buy $2k of charts for a trip...I don't.

 

If anyone has NL or other Maritime charts they'd like to sell, please let me know.

 

I have the CM93 or whatever electronic chart. I just would like something to back it up with.

 

Thanks!
Paul

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As a Canadian, I share your frustration. As a taxpayer, we have already funded the creation of the charts, why are we having to pay so much? Why would we ask potential guests/tourists to pay so much?

 

Anyway, we use a Garmin chartplotter with their charts. We also use various Android devices with Navionics installed as back-ups.

 

You can get them from Fugawa: http://store.fugawi.com/collections/canadian-hydrographic-services/products/chs-rm-atl01-newfoundland-east-and-south

 

Sorry from a frustrated Canadian sailor.

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Paper charts are expensive.

 

I know of no cheap way out. In some regions of the world third parties package hydrographic data into chart books at a very good price. Normally I carry a much reduced folio of Admirality paper, the coast pilot , cruising guide..and a full compliment of electronic charts.

 

For International sailing , Many electronic chart packages are really wanky.

 

Navionics for instance is trash.

 

The russian charts ...transas marine are the best electonic charts I have found.

 

A folio for your water is less than 25 euros. Have a look is you need electronic charts. Isailor is the marketing name.

post-47414-0-80103600-1384855374_thumb.jpg

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Advertise for used charts on Kijiji, Craigslist, etc. in the local area you are seeking charts for. I recently sold a complete set of charts for the Nova Scotia Atlantic coast to a guy in MA for a fraction of new cost. The rocks and channels don't change up here on the 'hard' coast and you electronic charts will have the latest info for the navaids.

 

All Canadian Hydrographic Sevice paper charts are now print-on-demand; they went to that delivery model a couple of years ahead of the NOAA. $20 a chart. Helps pay the CHS budget.

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Sully

 

PM me with what Charts you need. I may have some, covering the NF south coasts and east coast to Bonavista.

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Advertise for used charts on Kijiji, Craigslist, etc. in the local area you are seeking charts for. I recently sold a complete set of charts for the Nova Scotia Atlantic coast to a guy in MA for a fraction of new cost. The rocks and channels don't change up here on the 'hard' coast and you electronic charts will have the latest info for the navaids.

 

All Canadian Hydrographic Sevice paper charts are now print-on-demand; they went to that delivery model a couple of years ahead of the NOAA. $20 a chart. Helps pay the CHS budget.

 

What he said. I got many of my charts of the west coast from a local used boatstuff store. $5 each is way better than $20.

 

The Canuckistan government doesn't give much away for free (unless you are an MP or senator) but you can download and print off the latest List of Lights, Buoys, and Fog Signals from here: http://www.notmar.gc.ca/go.php?doc=eng/services/list/index

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With the Garmin stuff I see "Nova Scotia Inland Lakes" but I don't see coastal areas available. Am I missing something?

Thanks

Paul

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I had the same experience when planning for a trip to BC last year.

 

I ended up buying Navionics electronic charts (about $250) for my plotter that covered Vancouver Island. I bought used and out of date paper charts (about $30 total) to go along with them. I figured that major rocks don't move too much, and for navigating around minor ones I'd be using my electronic charts.

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Thanks!

 

I wouldn't suppose you could use the file to make a print on a plotter of some sort? Not worth asking.

 

Strange because when I've traveled by land in Canada, their tourism stuff is so well done and informative.

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The cruise guide that I use for The Labrador coast is compiled by

 

 

Alexander Weld

211 Ash Street

Weston , MA. 02193

 

 

Produced by Puffin Press

 

 

Background reading.........Sir Wilfred Thomason Grenfell

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slug. thanks. I really liked Farley Mowat's book, The Newfoundland, I think it's called.

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http://www.puffin-press.com/ has a guide for GSL, NS and Newfoundland as well as Labrador. They are really good and depend on user updates. They also carry annual updates online between editions that are well worth downloading before you go. But they do not have enough chart insets to act as a paper back up by any means. Many of the older CHS paper charts are at a better scale than you can currently buy new. And indeed the rocks have not moved. But they had significant GPS datum issues, which is why CHS has been slow in some more remote parts to publish electronic charts. But they have been slowly getting this sorted out. I've cruised up there off and on since the late 70's. I inherited a full set of 1970's paper charts which is a huge sense of security to have along, and continue to pull them out for various reasons, including notes on charts re anchorages etc scribed by previous generation. Note that they changed the chart numbering system about 20 years ago so if you find old charts they may not relate to the current chart catalog numbers, but that does not mean they aren't still useful. You just need to find an old catalog to go with the old numbered charts. A good source of all things Canadian Maritimes is binnacle.com. This summer we did the circuit around Newfoundland. We worked off a mix of 10 year old CHS digital CD's - sold then by NDI, and I bought iNavX raster charts on ipad for areas where my NDI vintage were not covering. The east side of the Newfoundland Northern Peninsula for instance. Plus we still take the paper set for when the echarts crash at the critical moment. Best way to avoid that is to always have the relevant paper chart at the top of the pile.

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http://www.puffin-press.com/ has a guide for GSL, NS and Newfoundland as well as Labrador. They are really good and depend on user updates. They also carry annual updates online between editions that are well worth downloading before you go. But they do not have enough chart insets to act as a paper back up by any means. Many of the older CHS paper charts are at a better scale than you can currently buy new. And indeed the rocks have not moved. But they had significant GPS datum issues, which is why CHS has been slow in some more remote parts to publish electronic charts. But they have been slowly getting this sorted out. I've cruised up there off and on since the late 70's. I inherited a full set of 1970's paper charts which is a huge sense of security to have along, and continue to pull them out for various reasons, including notes on charts re anchorages etc scribed by previous generation. Note that they changed the chart numbering system about 20 years ago so if you find old charts they may not relate to the current chart catalog numbers, but that does not mean they aren't still useful. You just need to find an old catalog to go with the old numbered charts. A good source of all things Canadian Maritimes is binnacle.com. This summer we did the circuit around Newfoundland. We worked off a mix of 10 year old CHS digital CD's - sold then by NDI, and I bought iNavX raster charts on ipad for areas where my NDI vintage were not covering. The east side of the Newfoundland Northern Peninsula for instance. Plus we still take the paper set for when the echarts crash at the critical moment. Best way to avoid that is to always have the relevant paper chart at the top of the pile.

 

Yup, that's one part of the world I'd never want to sail without the appropriate paper charts... My C-Maps for the plotter aren't bad, but they don't begin to compare to the beautiful CHS paper charts, some of the finest examples of cartographic art, IMHO. Particularly in regards to the topography of land masses, which is critical when cruising regions as mountainous as parts of Newfoundland and Labrador... The new series of CHS charts of Northern Labrador featuring the Torngat Mountains are simply beautiful to look at...

 

So far, I've found the charts of that region to be incredibly accurate, aside from the occasional datum offset issues... This is certainly not a place for the type of sailor becoming increasingly commonplace today - namely, the one who does not appreciate that your position as indicated on your plotter may not necessarily reflect your position on the Earth's surface :-)

 

 

grandbruitchart.jpg

 

 

The OP might want to keep an eye on the SSCA's Chart Exchange, but in my observation there are far more people looking for charts of Atlantic Canada, than offering them.... Any for sale always seem to go very quickly:

 

http://forum.ssca.org/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=29b904c9f4abe205153a36be26b7503b

 

The Binnacle is a good source for new, and does offer free shipping for orders over $150, if memory serves... However, last time I looked, they actually showed a very limited offering of available charts for order on their site. No doubt they can get anything for you if requested, but it would seem to require a bit more work/communication with them to order what you want...

 

I ordered a large batch last year from Maryland Nautical, and was very pleased with their service. I found their site by far the most complete and easy to navigate, and with the very helpful feature of actually being able to see a picture of each chart depicted before ordering... Also, some of their smaller harbor charts are priced accordingly lower than the $19.80 for the standard CHS charts, something that Landfall Navigation or Bluewater does not necessarily appear to do...

 

http://mdnautical.com/330-atlantic-region

 

As noted, the guides from the CCA/Puffin Press are a terrific resource, I wouldn't want to be without them... In addition, there is a superb guide for Newfoundland's Notre Dame Bay:

 

http://www.landfallnavigation.com/ben008.html

 

And here is an excellent online resource for Cape Breton and the Bras d'Or Lakes:

 

http://cruising-cape-breton.info/

 

Finally, I'd try to obtain a copy of a terrific weather resource for Atlantic Canada... A most excellent reference, though be sure that the copy you're buying is in English, I believe they published one in French, as well:

 

http://www.amazon.ca/Where-Wind-Blows-Weather-Atlantic/dp/1550811193

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Update: have a reasonable smattering of paper charts, working on filling in some holes. I'm thinking about buying two android tablets and using the Navionics with them. Does anyone have any experience with them?

 

Thanks!

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Here in the Great White North, from page 14 of the Safe Boating Guide, "the largest commercially available paper chart is mandatory to have aboard (unless you know the area "sufficiently well") of the area in which you are sailing in addition to the latest edition of related documents and publications, including Notices to Mariners, Sailing Directions, tide and current tables, and the List of Lights, Buoys and Fog Signals."

 

Having said that, in over 17,000 miles of cruising the waters of Atlantic Canada over the past 15 years, we have NEVER been asked whether we actually had said paper charts aboard. Your experience may vary.

 

Guide can be downloaded at:

www.tc.gc.ca/publications/en/tp511/pdf/hr/tp511e.pdf

 

PM me with your planned itinerary and I'll see if I can hook you up with some charts you can borrow for your cruise.

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Funny anecdote re. the requirement of having papaer charts on Board: Last year, prior to leaving for our annual vacation I asked the Coasties (Canada) aboard for a courtesy inspection. When I asked them specifically about the paper chart reuqirement, they could not have cared less. I guess the three GPSs and the toughbook convinced them that we had sufficient redundancy.

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I'm running a Panasonic CF-19, on Windows 7. Battery life is pretty good and a modest 300W inverter will keep it running indefinitely, with a 140W solar panel charging the house bank. Mine does not have the built in GPS :-( but a Garmin etrex plugged into the USB port does the job just fine

 

I can tell you that ours is waterproof. We gave oit a pretty thorough test on Lake Ontario last year.

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Funny anecdote re. the requirement of having papaer charts on Board: Last year, prior to leaving for our annual vacation I asked the Coasties (Canada) aboard for a courtesy inspection. When I asked them specifically about the paper chart reuqirement, they could not have cared less. I guess the three GPSs and the toughbook convinced them that we had sufficient redundancy.

Don't even get me started on the water cops around here and that TransCan "requirement".

 

Some busy beaver of a staff sergeant has been grilling the troops on it over the last few years, to the point where paddling a kayak on Lake Ontario I get "pulled over" and asked to provide ownership documents & a chart.

 

In a kayak.

 

The guys just trying to go out salmon fishing for an evening are getting grilled over not having charts, to the point where they simply don't bother any more and tow their boat an extra half hour down the lake. Not a fan of revenue generation reaching the water, ugh!

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Update: have a reasonable smattering of paper charts, working on filling in some holes. I'm thinking about buying two android tablets and using the Navionics with them. Does anyone have any experience with them?

 

Thanks!

 

Three years ago I bought the Navionics Marine&Lakes app for my Android Motorola DROID Maxx phone - ~$10 US at the time. I was impressed with what it did, yet incredibly frustrated a few times when it froze and lost many hours of a sailing track. Once when it froze up, it never came back - had to go through a big hassle with Navionics to get it re-installed and working again. But for the price, what you can say?

 

Now $15 US: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.navionics.singleAppUsaCanada

 

Their HD version is for tablets - $55: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=it.navionics.singleAppUsaCanadaHD

 

Their interactive charts on this page are impressive for free (though not full screen) if you happen to have Internet access (scroll down to the "Coverage" tab and select "US and Canada"):

 

http://www.navionics.com/en/navionics-plus

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WARNING about iNavX!!! Just read this report at Lat38 about the guy who lost his boat on the Big Island last Sunday night - Seaquel's Final Chapter:

 

They'd been navigating for weeks without a problem using iNavX software on Berg's iPad, which was interfaced with the vessel's GPS. That night they were headed for a waypoint offshore of Honokohau Harbor, north of Kialua Kona town. All of a sudden the screen was taken over by a system request to log in to FaceTime, an Apple resource, then another request to log in to the iCloud. No matter what Berg and Peters did, they couldn't clear the screen and log back in to iNavX.

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If by the grace of god anyone reading this has a Navionics Canada and SE Alaska chip for a Lowrance chart plotter that they would part with, I'd like to buy it from you.

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