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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.
    • B.J. Porter

      Moderation Team Change   06/16/2017

      After fifteen years of volunteer moderation at SA, I will no longer be part of the moderation team. The decision to step aside is mine, and has been some time in the works but we did not wish to announce it in advance for a number of reasons. It's been fun, but I need my time back for other purposes now. The Underdawg admin account will not be monitored until further notice, as I will be relinquishing control of it along with my administrative privileges. Zapata will continue on as a moderator, and any concerns or issues can be directed to that account or to the Editor until further notice. Anyone interested in helping moderate the forums should reach out to Scot by sending a PM to the Editor account. Please note that I am not leaving the community, I am merely stepping aside from Admin responsibilities and privileges on the site.

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Nobody you know

Carbon fiber sandwich panel

13 posts in this topic

I am replacing/extending the cockpit floor of a carbon tri. Any recommendations on where I might buy foam cored carbon fiber panels? I'm located in the US. Thanks

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ACP Composites. Foam with carbon fiber panels stocked up to .5 inch. A 4ft by 4ft. 1/2 panel is about 380 USD. They have em up to 4 ft by 8 ft. They also have honeycomb cored panels, and balsa cored panels. Give them a look-up on the internet.

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I remember talking to a guy about his Farrier (not sure which it was) - he was using a very thin carbon board that apparently was used in model airplanes. he was going to use it for the cockpit floor. I was a bit sceptical but the boat floats!

 

I've also just been looking at pre made panels, there's Duflex from ATL and another one Polycore which seems to come with two thin layers of epoxy/glass ready for application of whatever you want. Looks light.

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ACP Composites. Foam with carbon fiber panels stocked up to .5 inch. A 4ft by 4ft. 1/2 panel is about 380 USD.

Should be able to make them for a lot less than that, it's not hard, especially as flat pannels.

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Dragonplate carbon fiber is another source.

Yes you can, if you have the equipment, space, and ability as well as access to all the needed tools and materials, of course make it for yourself cheaper than a fully burdened shop. Go ahead, this isnt russia is it, billy?

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I don't have all the gear to vacuum bag and was thinking that it would be cheaper, easier and better (where the weight would be saved) to find a supplier to furnish the panels, leaving me with cutting, shaping and tabbing into place. Plus,if the panels are well finished, it saves time and energy on fairings. Thoughts?

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Thoughts are that carbon and core costs more than you would think. Quality infusable 1/2 in core is > $5 sq ft. Carbon, I forget but its pretty pricey. Then there's resin, labor and all the disposables.. By the time you figure the cost, everyone screams you're ripping them off so after awhile? You just don't bother.

 

We make stuff like this all the time for our own projects. I find most people don't really want the good stuff. The cost "savings" of faux carbon usually draws them away.

 

-jim lee

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I don't have all the gear to vacuum bag and was thinking that it would be cheaper, easier and better (where the weight would be saved) to find a supplier to furnish the panels, leaving me with cutting, shaping and tabbing into place. Plus,if the panels are well finished, it saves time and energy on fairings. Thoughts?

The extra cost for commercial products is labour and storage costs. Doing it yourself saves that, though you'll pay a little more for materials unless you can convince someone to give you trade prices.

 

It should be easy to get a bill of materials and work out the cost. MDF with clear tape over it can be the "mould", get the $/m for carbon, $/m for foam or whatever core you want, then add the cost of bagging materials and peel ply (again by the metre). Vacuum pumps are on eBay. The difference in weight will be bugger all if you're careful about wetting out. A supplier should be able to tell you how much of everything you need and offer advice on using the products they have in stock.

 

You could even get away without vacuum if you put say taped MDF on top too with evenly distributed weights. All you're trying to do is squeeze fibres together and expel excess resin. Vacuum is handy with complex or curved shapes, but with flat pannels, weights work just as well.

 

Maybe the cost saving won't get you far enough ahead for the effort, but worth pricing just so you know. :-)

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I don't have all the gear to vacuum bag and was thinking that it would be cheaper, easier and better (where the weight would be saved) to find a supplier to furnish the panels, leaving me with cutting, shaping and tabbing into place. Plus,if the panels are well finished, it saves time and energy on fairings. Thoughts?

The extra cost for commercial products is labour and storage costs. Doing it yourself saves that, though you'll pay a little more for materials unless you can convince someone to give you trade prices.

 

It should be easy to get a bill of materials and work out the cost. MDF with clear tape over it can be the "mould", get the $/m for carbon, $/m for foam or whatever core you want, then add the cost of bagging materials and peel ply (again by the metre). Vacuum pumps are on eBay. The difference in weight will be bugger all if you're careful about wetting out. A supplier should be able to tell you how much of everything you need and offer advice on using the products they have in stock.

 

You could even get away without vacuum if you put say taped MDF on top too with evenly distributed weights. All you're trying to do is squeeze fibres together and expel excess resin. Vacuum is handy with complex or curved shapes, but with flat pannels, weights work just as well.

 

Maybe the cost saving won't get you far enough ahead for the effort, but worth pricing just so you know. :-)

 

 

+1...a careful lofting or scaled plan, level work top that can take weight, even garage floor and car, ply/carbon or glass sandwich, and your are home free. Busy but not hard and vacuum free.

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You can buy the foam core and carbon cloth from a variety of suppliers, and with a flat panel, don't need vacuum , just careful wetting out doing one side at a time with all the ply's you need. I've done it with good results. For a finished look for top surface, use peel ply over top layer to get a satin look. try a test panel first to see what look you'll get. for a gloss look, use visiqueen, have to be careful to get it applied over smooth however. Assume you may want non-slid top surface, don't need super smooth surface.

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