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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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oioi

New imoca boats

1,717 posts in this topic

Anybody know of any new boats in build that will have the one design keel and mast?

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Bernard Stamm might have one in build soon if he can find the money/it comes quick from the insurers

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The new rules have just been voted 2 weeks ago and before building a boat you first have to ... design it!

 

Besides, although masts and keels will be standardized, I haven't seen any announcement about the details.

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Two of the existing (surviving ;)) main French teams have apparently launched design/build programs.

No further news

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Two of the existing (surviving ;)) main French teams have apparently launched design/build programs.

No further news

Interesting, from the outside imoca is looking like a class in decline, curious to how many boats are going to get built this cycle.

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Two of the existing (surviving ;)) main French teams have apparently launched design/build programs.

No further news

Interesting, from the outside imoca is looking like a class in decline, curious to how many boats are going to get built this cycle.

 

 

Class health is directly linked to money available, while the the VG impact remains huge (topping Google searches in France in 2013).

Both these team-owners have piles of dough and never won the VG ;)

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Two of the existing (surviving ;)) main French teams have apparently launched design/build programs.

No further news

Interesting, from the outside imoca is looking like a class in decline, curious to how many boats are going to get built this cycle.

 

Class health is directly linked to money available, while the the VG impact remains huge (topping Google searches in France in 2013).

Both these team-owners have piles of dough and never won the VG ;)

Who would that be now?

Maitre Coq wouldn't surprise me, Beyou seems like a good bet, who else? Hardly Bureau Vallee?

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Two of the existing (surviving ;)) main French teams have apparently launched design/build programs.

No further news

Interesting, from the outside imoca is looking like a class in decline, curious to how many boats are going to get built this cycle.

 

Class health is directly linked to money available, while the the VG impact remains huge (topping Google searches in France in 2013).

Both these team-owners have piles of dough and never won the VG ;)

Who would that be now?

Maitre Coq wouldn't surprise me, Beyou seems like a good bet, who else? Hardly Bureau Vallee?

 

Banque Populaire announced they would be back for the 2016 VG with a new boat for Armel le Cleac'h. They are currently focusing on their solo ultim tri program and bode their time for the IMOCA for an in depth study of the impact of the new rules.

 

The only deep French pockets left who never won the VG are Safran and ... JP Dick. (The later would surprise me, he clearly seemed having had enough of solo racing.)

The only non-French who I see could get the cash is Alex Thomson. (Really not sure the Sandoz family would be willing to go any further with IMOCA boats after the Cheminées nightmare.)

 

Beyou is a great sailor but Maitre Coq does not have "piles of dough".

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As long as the IMOCA OPEN 60 is the boat of choice for the vendee the class will have be ok.

 

There are a few guys keen from the States for the Vendee isn't there?

 

Richard someone, great American.

 

Ryan Breimayer - reported on front page he THE famous Yves Parlier boat!

 

Ronnie Simpson

 

And then the guy who won the Ostar on the cruiser / racer.

 

No Aussies but. Anyone fancy sponsoring me :-)

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Two of the existing (surviving ;)) main French teams have apparently launched design/build programs.

No further news

Interesting, from the outside imoca is looking like a class in decline, curious to how many boats are going to get built this cycle.

 

 

Class health is directly linked to money available, while the the VG impact remains huge (topping Google searches in France in 2013).

Both these team-owners have piles of dough and never won the VG ;)

 

 

Who would that be now?

Maitre Coq wouldn't surprise me, Beyou seems like a good bet, who else? Hardly Bureau Vallee?

 

 

Banque Populaire announced they would be back for the 2016 VG with a new boat for Armel le Cleac'h. They are currently focusing on their solo ultim tri program and bode their time for the IMOCA for an in depth study of the impact of the new rules.

 

The only deep French pockets left who never won the VG are Safran and ... JP Dick. (The later would surprise me, he clearly seemed having had enough of solo racing.)

The only non-French who I see could get the cash is Alex Thomson. (Really not sure the Sandoz family would be willing to go any further with IMOCA boats after the Cheminées nightmare.)

 

Beyou is a great sailor but Maitre Coq does not have "piles of dough".

 

 

;):) :) Dr Watson !

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Alex is building a boat for sure. Banque Pop not for sure but 90% likely.

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there are 3 confirmed new builds. They will all have the one design rigs and keels. At the general meeting there was a discussion about keels. All of the top boats in the fleet have gotten or will get the forged keels in the next few months. They have the right to keep their original masts.

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there are 3 confirmed new builds. They will all have the one design rigs and keels. At the general meeting there was a discussion about keels. All of the top boats in the fleet have gotten or will get the forged keels in the next few months. They have the right to keep their original masts.

 

Do you know if Spirit of Hungary will get onedesign keel/mast or not?

http://spiritofhungary.hu

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Spirit of Hungary was put on hold for a little while, waiting for the new rules to be passed. I think she's going with the OD keel/mast.

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I think the new rules will make older boats more valuable. The large number of new boats built two Vendee cycles ago means there are quite a few relatively lightly used older boats out there. Of course I could be completely wrong.

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I think the new rules will make older boats more valuable. The large number of new boats built two Vendee cycles ago means there are quite a few relatively lightly used older boats out there. Of course I could be completely wrong.

The grandfathering clause could make these very competitive- I hear Gamesa is one that is far more powerful than the current rules allow.

 

Will be interesting to see.

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Alex Thomson has sailed VP3 with his BWR partner Pepe Ribes, wouldn't be surprised if he buys it, or if he already has.

post-98211-0-31317800-1388799788_thumb.jpg

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Alex Thomson has sailed VP3 with his BWR partner Pepe Ribes, wouldn't be surprised if he buys it, or if he already has.

 

It was bought by the BWR organizers and will be raced in the NY-Barcelona and BWR by Alex and Pepe with HB sponsorship.

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What is he using in the VG? I would assume he'd want that boat after so much time on it.

 

According to Clean he's having a new one built.

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AFAIK that's a major part of his re-up with Hugo Boss; a new boat for the next vendee.

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There is a contingent who reckon that you could create a faster boat by modifying an older more powerful one, but do not underestimate the power of the architects to create a faster new design. They were saying at the AGM that the new design would be between 5 hours faster over the vendee course to 2-3% faster overall, which is a big difference....

 

You can be sure that a new boat optimised to the rule will be faster than an old one which has been modified. The lower drag hull shape will be the first point, as IMOCA designs all have more than enough power, and drag reduction is the main avenue left to explore. Add that to the ability to put lateral water ballast tanks where you want, and you have a very lightweight low drag concept compared to the old boats, with more or less the same sail area.

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There is a contingent who reckon that you could create a faster boat by modifying an older more powerful one, but do not underestimate the power of the architects to create a faster new design. They were saying at the AGM that the new design would be between 5 hours faster over the vendee course to 2-3% faster overall, which is a big difference....

 

You can be sure that a new boat optimised to the rule will be faster than an old one which has been modified. The lower drag hull shape will be the first point, as IMOCA designs all have more than enough power, and drag reduction is the main avenue left to explore. Add that to the ability to put lateral water ballast tanks where you want, and you have a very lightweight low drag concept compared to the old boats, with more or less the same sail area.

 

Regarding the lateral ballasts, can older boats be retrofitted with these? (And then take weight out of the keel bulb)?

 

Not sure it makes sense, just wondering what alterations are allowed.

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There is a contingent who reckon that you could create a faster boat by modifying an older more powerful one, but do not underestimate the power of the architects to create a faster new design. They were saying at the AGM that the new design would be between 5 hours faster over the vendee course to 2-3% faster overall, which is a big difference....

 

You can be sure that a new boat optimised to the rule will be faster than an old one which has been modified. The lower drag hull shape will be the first point, as IMOCA designs all have more than enough power, and drag reduction is the main avenue left to explore. Add that to the ability to put lateral water ballast tanks where you want, and you have a very lightweight low drag concept compared to the old boats, with more or less the same sail area.

I think that newer boats being faster is a good thing for the class. It will encurage ongoing investment and development whilst the performance difference does not sound so great that the value of older boats gets destroyed. Glad to hear that there arevafew being built.

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As long as the IMOCA OPEN 60 is the boat of choice for the vendee the class will have be ok.

 

There are a few guys keen from the States for the Vendee isn't there?

 

Richard someone, great American.

 

Ryan Breimayer - reported on front page he THE famous Yves Parlier boat!

 

Ronnie Simpson

 

And then the guy who won the Ostar on the cruiser / racer.

 

No Aussies but. Anyone fancy sponsoring me :-)

For the record, I stated on the front page that it is a "young French Skipper" who has the Parlier boat. That program just happens to be in my town in Brittany and I thought people would be interested in the boat.

 

I have not got a boat nor a sponsor for the moment.

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As long as the IMOCA OPEN 60 is the boat of choice for the vendee the class will have be ok.

 

There are a few guys keen from the States for the Vendee isn't there?

 

Richard someone, great American.

 

Ryan Breimayer - reported on front page he THE famous Yves Parlier boat!

 

Ronnie Simpson

 

And then the guy who won the Ostar on the cruiser / racer.

 

No Aussies but. Anyone fancy sponsoring me :-)

For the record, I stated on the front page that it is a "young French Skipper" who has the Parlier boat. That program just happens to be in my town in Brittany and I thought people would be interested in the boat.

 

I have not got a boat nor a sponsor for the moment.

My apologies. Thanks for bringing the mistake to my attention and the rest of the readers if I got them confused. Certainly happy to here any more news from that campaign and any progress you make with a boat or sponsor of your own.

 

Thanks Again,

 

SCANAS

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Yes, older boats can retrofit.

 

Ok thanks. Methinks VPPs are going to work overtime in the next few months while designers try to see to what extent their older designs can be boosted :)

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Fuck me! That's an impressive picture.

 

Pretty cool to get an insight into the build like that.

 

Thanks for posting!

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Spirit of Hungary keel: (is it new one-design?)

 

1010535_281638468660113_1104178926_n.jpg

source please forss!?

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Two of the existing (surviving ;)) main French teams have apparently launched design/build programs.

No further news

Interesting, from the outside imoca is looking like a class in decline, curious to how many boats are going to get built this cycle.

 

Class health is directly linked to money available, while the the VG impact remains huge (topping Google searches in France in 2013).

Both these team-owners have piles of dough and never won the VG ;)

 

As usual, Moody was right on the money (no pun intended) : Banque Populaire and Safran officially announced today that they were joining forces in the development of their new boats ( http://www.ouest-france.fr/voile-safran-et-banque-populaire-sassocient-1886108 ). From the press thing, the extend of said collaboration is not clear: sister ships, common R&D or whatever, it's not specified ("we're happy to collaborate to share costs, risks and efforts" is a bit vague at this point).

 

Maybe somebody has some more precise info, now that the cat's officially out of the bag ?

 

M.

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Good news - seb josse is back for another go at the vendee, but not decided whether in a new boat or modified existing.

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Figaro young-gun Morgan Lagraviere will skipper Safran's new boat for the next Vendee, taking over from Guillemot after the Route du Rhum

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Is there anything public about Seb? My IMOCA-radar didn't go off on that one.

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Is there anything public about Seb? My IMOCA-radar didn't go off on that one.

Press release was out today from Gitana

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I'm going to get on a soapbox here and say it:

If a scow 60 isn't being at least studied for this new generation of IMOCAs, than designers are being willfully ignorant. It at least has to be considered. (plus I want to see what it would look like).

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One of the reason behind the new keels was that these had to be changed after each VG, so with the transats, there probably aren't that many old keels fit for 2016.

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I'm going to get on a soapbox here and say it:

 

If a scow 60 isn't being at least studied for this new generation of IMOCAs, than designers are being willfully ignorant. It at least has to be considered. (plus I want to see what it would look like).

Pretty sure they outlawed it

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Yep - there is a max width for O60 rule for the first few meters from the bow.

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I'd say Macif/Maitre Coq will be the closest you'll get in terms of actual bow volume

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It will be interesting to see the new hulls and if anything gets "creative" forward of that max beam point.

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The old Farr designed Foncia, now MARE has done a larger bow with VPLP to the limit of size available in the new rule. We should see what happens when they put it in the water in a couple weeks.

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That looks very stubby- impressive!

 

How did you get that pic?

Impressive stuff!

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That's what I meant by getting creative in front of that max beam point. I think we are seeing what the new hulls will look like.

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I really have to wonder if that is meant to be the final shape, beefy looking carbon skins?

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That looks very stubby- impressive!

 

How did you get that pic?

Impressive stuff!

 

You can find some more pictures of fitting the new bow section here

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i'm not sure this one design keel and mast is a good idea, how often are they going to update the design? and as for the mats are they fixed or rotating? i really wonder how this will work long term.

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both fixed and rotating are available for OD

That is something I don't really get- you'd think for OD they'd confine you to one- because at the end of the day one will be faster than the other.

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every dog has its day. the important part about the mast and keel was not to equalize performance, but to maximize reliability and stop the huge attrition rate that results from an unchecked design war.

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So the battle for supremacy between rotating and fixed masts continues.

 

Does that suggest no definitive result in terms of dismasting stats - or a stalemated battle fought over favourites?

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As far as I understand it the rotating rigs are generally more successful (in the longer races), but also less reliable. Your choice!

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It's a French vs non-French thing and depends on designer and the sailor who originally acquires the boat... The exception to that was JPD on his last boat that was conventionally rigged IIRC. I'm not surprised that they have specced each as there are people who are adamant either way

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Thanks for the rules link, interesting. I noticed the questions and drawings for the dss, the double bilgeboarder arrangement is a new wrinkle that might be more durable at sea, loads would be less aligned of course.

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Looks pretty normal to me, esp when you compare them in pics relative to the size of the boat- people seem to forget how big theses boats are!

That bulb looks huge for an IMOCA boat.

 

 

Anyone know what the story is with spirit of Hungary? Designer etc

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Looks pretty normal to me, esp when you compare them in pics relative to the size of the boat- people seem to forget how big theses boats are!

That bulb looks huge for an IMOCA boat.

 

Anyone know what the story is with spirit of Hungary? Designer etc

 

 

Skipper Nándor Fa is designer.

http://spiritofhungary.hu/the-boat/

 

He have raced several times around the world.

2 vendees and other ocean races.

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Conventional daggerboards compared to the current and coming generation of Imoca's

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Looks pretty normal to me, esp when you compare them in pics relative to the size of the boat- people seem to forget how big theses boats are!

That bulb looks huge for an IMOCA boat.

 

Anyone know what the story is with spirit of Hungary? Designer etc

 

Skipper Nándor Fa is designer.

http://spiritofhungary.hu/the-boat/

 

He have raced several times around the world.

2 vendees and other ocean races.

We saw him at the Paris boatshow, he is building his boat and aiming for VG 2016.

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Here's an article talking about less powerful, but lighter boats: http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/article/14240/boats-that-are-less-powerful-but-lighter.html

 

Guillaume Verdier, talking about hull shapes and ballast tanks: "We’ve already spent enough time looking at hull shapes. I don’t think there is much room for improvement in this area. We can maybe play around with the sail plan, but above all it is with the positioning of the ballast tanks that we should be able to innovate"

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Spirit of Hungary is nearing completion.

 

https://www.facebook.com/SpiritOfHungary/photos_stream

Interesting that freeboard seems no longer desirable.

 

I wonder if we'll look back on this extreme hull form as we do with ultra-skinny hulls and excessive overhangs.

 

Should be a very wet, scary ride.

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That boat has plenty of freeboard and a nice roof. Why would you need a ton of freeboard on the transom? That is the IMOCA 60 typeform and it is much drier than a Volvo boat. Remember that it is light, and it goes over the waves, not through them.

 

For a self designed boat, I think he has done an incredible job. This is the real spirit of ocean racing.

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For a self designed boat, I think he has done an incredible job. This is the real spirit of ocean racing.

 

This is the 3rd self designed, self built IMOCA he did. Plus the other smaller sailing boats. With Spirit of Hungary, I have 3 boats to root for.

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Really like the look of that boat.

For something he designed and built himself you'd expect it to look some way agricultural- it doesn't at all, looks like it could have jsut came out of one of he big French yards yesterday

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Really like the look of that boat.

For something he designed and built himself you'd expect it to look some way agricultural- it doesn't at all, looks like it could have jsut came out of one of he big French yards yesterday

had a successful Vendee campagin in 92-93 when he was N° 5, then a not so successful in 96-97 when he was forced to abandon (boat dropped by crain, smashed by tanker and rebuilt, then electronic problems), did B.O.C challenge as well, all self designed/built boats. And was N° 4 in the Jacques Vabre in 97. His company builds port equipments, for the French markets as well :) and he knows what he is doing.

 

The yeard built the boat is the one doing RC44 yachts....

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Jean-Pierre Dick’s new IMOCA 60 looks interesting. A new VPLP Verdier rocket ship no doubt.

post-76289-0-88167300-1396418183_thumb.jpg

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Both the Farr and Ex-VP3 are out of the shed with the Hugo Boss guys. Pictures soon to follow apparently.

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How many boats does Alex have now? 2 or 3?

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They now own the Juan K black and white boat, they're letting ex-Virbac Paprec and I think they've sold the Farr, so only the 1, don't quote me on that though

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According to a short article on Course au Large Mare have pulled their sponsorship from Jorg Riechers. Bad news. Hopefully he finds new support.

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According to a short article on Course au Large Mare have pulled their sponsorship from Jorg Riechers. Bad news. Hopefully he finds new support.

FUCK.

That is really shit. Hope he at least got the money to finsh the work he's on at the moment.

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Also JPD has announced he's going again in 2016 because the MOD scene has went to shit.

New boat, with the stated aim of winning- no reason he can't

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3D_Safran_3_550-2.png

Safran have released a drawing of their new IMOCA, which will be being built from the same plug as Banque Pop

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According to a short article on Course au Large Mare have pulled their sponsorship from Jorg Riechers. Bad news. Hopefully he finds new support.

I thought MARE was his family's company, non?

 

FNOB is the owner of ex-VP3.

But I guess it is still under HugoBoss colours.

 

They now own the Juan K black and white boat, they're letting ex-Virbac Paprec and I think they've sold the Farr, so only the 1, don't quote me on that though

It was asked and answered in my interview with Alex last month.

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According to a short article on Course au Large Mare have pulled their sponsorship from Jorg Riechers. Bad news. Hopefully he finds new support.

I thought MARE was his family's company, non?

 

>FNOB is the owner of ex-VP3.

But I guess it is still under HugoBoss colours.

 

They now own the Juan K black and white boat, they're letting ex-Virbac Paprec and I think they've sold the Farr, so only the 1, don't quote me on that though

It was asked and answered in my interview with Alex last month.

 

No. Mare is a German maritime publication owned by a guy who has supported Jorg's sailing for years but he's not a family member. He has always supported Jorg moving to IMOCA but he was clear from the start that he does not have the money to fund a full IMOCA program. Jorg was looking for a co-sponsor but he hadn't yet been successful. Don't know what happened last week for things to come to this. The Class 40 has been sold and the IMOCA (ex Foncia VG2008 winner) has just finished having the new bow put on it. Its for sale.

 

As for Alex Thomson Racing, they own the Juan K Black and White boat which is out of the water in LA and actively for sale. They also own the Farr that Alex raced in the last Vendee Globe. They have loaned this boat to the FNOB and they are preparing it for Spanish skipper Guillermo Altaldi for the New York to Barcelona race in June, plus the Barcelona World Race. In return, the FNOB have lent Alex the ex-VP3. This boat has been rebranded as Hugo Boss and had a bit of a refit. They are getting ready for the New York to Barcelona and the Barcelona World Race that Alex will race with Spanish skipper Pepe Ribes (4 VOR, 2 AC etc etc). ATR and the FNOB will return the swap after the end of the BWR.

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New Hugo Boss(ex-VP3) uncovered

 

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Credit: Endeavour Quay

Beats two-tone blue hand down.

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That's Ryan's new ride!!!! Stay tuned for the news on the front page in a few hours. Americans finally have a potential winner to cheer for.

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That's Ryan's new ride!!!! Stay tuned for the news on the front page in a few hours. Americans finally have a potential winner to cheer for.

 

!!!!!!!!!!!

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