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New imoca boats

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1 hour ago, JL92S said:

Arkea Paprec goes sailing tomorrow!

Quick, somebody get their boat ready and go out there to take some pictures and videos for us.

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https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/imoca-ruyant-avec-advens-et-antoine-koch-30-07-2019-12350643.php

A lot more aft structure than Arkea Paprec.  Wider decks as well, easier to move forward.  Google translation below.

imoca-ruyant-avec-advens-et-antoine-koch (Photo Pierre Bouras)

The brand new 60-foot Thomas Ruyant, built in the Persico Italian shipyard and finished to be assembled in the TR Racing hangar in Lorient, should be launched at the end of August. The Norman skipper, based in Lorient, announced on Tuesday that he had a partner to follow him at the end of the 2019 season: Advens, who has been following him since the last Vendée Globe, will give his name to the boat on the Transat Jacques Vabre. . Transat between Le Havre and Salvador that Thomas Ruyant will play with Antoine Koch. The latter in the team since the beginning of the design worked a lot on appendages and sails. It will be valuable to develop this Verdier plan with pretty curves. If Advens commits to this 2019 season, the one who had to abandon his first Vendée Globe is still looking for a partner for the Vendée Globe 2020.


© Le Télégramme https://www.letelegramme.fr/voile/imoca-ruyant-avec-advens-et-antoine-koch-30-07-2019-12350643.php#JdZxe5HwS6mHP0TA.99

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On 7/29/2019 at 3:27 PM, southerncross said:

 

soon HB7 will be revealed.......the discussion will be interesting

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I'm wondering if the fast daggerboard boats would have an edge in light air upwind.

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Yes and by design in the class rules to keep the prior generation boats in the market and not hurt all the owners. 

Paul Meilhat on SMA performed extremely well after the VG on various events. Foiling boats are optimized for one event and one event only and some foiling boats don't even seem that well optimized and seem more interested on campaign messaging/PR/going to Monaco than doing well.

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27 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

I'm wondering if the fast daggerboard boats would have an edge in light air upwind.

I’ve been wondering that too- that’s  why I posted the Division 2 windsurfing hull^^^^^.  (At least I hope I was wondering about the same thing :))

So go for really reduced wetted surface, which would be the hull for a foiling boat, when not foiling- that does depend on the righting moment the foils can give you even at the mid & higher end of Archimedes mode, and how well a hull crashes at speed. (?). Probably a bunch of other dynamics, but a smaller hull could drive the smaller spiral.....

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3 hours ago, Miffy said:

Yes and by design in the class rules to keep the prior generation boats in the market and not hurt all the owners. 

Paul Meilhat on SMA performed extremely well after the VG on various events. Foiling boats are optimized for one event and one event only and some foiling boats don't even seem that well optimized and seem more interested on campaign messaging/PR/going to Monaco than doing well.

SMA is a sweet boat, elegant design.

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On 7/30/2019 at 6:05 AM, Tito said:

Quick, somebody get their boat ready and go out there to take some pictures and videos for us.

Yeah can't wait for this one and Juan K so something a little different to take on the VPLP dominance or not.?

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10 hours ago, Amati said:

I’ve been wondering that too- that’s  why I posted the Division 2 windsurfing hull^^^^^.  (At least I hope I was wondering about the same thing :))

So go for really reduced wetted surface, which would be the hull for a foiling boat, when not foiling- that does depend on the righting moment the foils can give you even at the mid & higher end of Archimedes mode, and how well a hull crashes at speed. (?). Probably a bunch of other dynamics, but a smaller hull could drive the smaller spiral.....

That is my view of the way ahead. 

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2 hours ago, Chimp too said:

So go for really reduced wetted surface, which would be the hull for a foiling boat, when not foiling- that does depend on the righting moment the foils can give you even at the mid & higher end of Archimedes mode, and how well a hull crashes at speed. (?). Probably a bunch of other dynamics, but a smaller hull could drive the smaller spiral.....

With all new hulls fitted with foils and older boats being retrofitted, the next step is probably to allow foils on the rudder for VG 2024. Technology and fleet would be mature by then. Not sure hull shape makes a very big difference but it could become a bigger factor if it allows a boat to fly with less wind (now they are limited in a kind of transient state). But boats should also be designed to sail at 50 degrees south with all it implies. Nobody wants to be too radical and be responsible for a dead sailor, Alex being the exception.

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2 hours ago, Lakrass said:

With all new hulls fitted with foils and older boats being retrofitted, the next step is probably to allow foils on the rudder for VG 2024. Technology and fleet would be mature by then. Not sure hull shape makes a very big difference but it could become a bigger factor if it allows a boat to fly with less wind (now they are limited in a kind of transient state). But boats should also be designed to sail at 50 degrees south with all it implies. Nobody wants to be too radical and be responsible for a dead sailor, Alex being the exception.

I was about to say what about Alex until you said it at the end. Can't wait to see his boat, must be getting close. Also keen to see what sleep alarm system he puts in place? 

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20190730_MVZ_ARKEA_PAPREC_0112.JPG

Credit: M Viezzer

190730_YR_polaRYSE_ARKEA_PAPREC_0847.jpg

Credit: Y Riou / polaRYSE / ARKÉA PAPREC

Stacking inside the cockpit.  Cockpit looks unchanged.

https://www.scanvoile.com/2019/07/premiere-navigation-pour-arkea-paprec-sebastien-simon-imoca-itw.html#.XUG7FzXYphE

Google translation

Sébastien Simon, skipper of ARKÉA PAPREC. " We made a short outing yesterday with two reaching edges and we plan to come out again today before heading out for the Rolex Fastnet Race at the end of the afternoon."

Last night, back at the pontoon, Sebastien Simon did not hide his immense joy after the first conclusive sensations aboard his 60 '. The monohull made a new release today before rushing to Cowes for the departure of the Rolex Fastnet Race which will leave this Saturday.
Sébastien Simon: "It's a little adventure!"

"  It's good to sail! The first navigation was rather reassuring. The whole team was overjoyed, everyone was happy to see that everything was fine. We are going straight for the race, it's a little adventure. But after all the energy invested by the whole team, it's a great reward. I'm glad I got there. It's great to be able to align with Fastnet. It was our goal. Of course, we will not go to the floor. We will be vigilant, we will listen to the boat. The weather is favorable with small time early in the race, the end with medium. On the other hand, we will have more wind in the Irish Sea. We will see how the boat behaves. The goal is to sail the boat, to go to the end to learn. At the end of the race, we will already have some good ideas about the capabilities of ARKÉA PAPREC. But with Vincent (Riou), we are competitors so it may not be easy not to navigate thoroughly (laughs).  "

 

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Image may contain: ocean, sky, boat, cloud, outdoor, water and nature

Looks like the guy in the red smock is steering, cannot tell if he's standing or sitting on the stack. 

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5 minutes ago, ctutmark said:

Image may contain: ocean, sky, boat, cloud, outdoor, water and nature

Looks like the guy in the red smock is steering, cannot tell if he's standing or sitting on the stack. 

Looks like V Riou.  Possibly trying to view the sails. No sign of lift from the foils yet.

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28 minutes ago, serialsailor said:

Definitely not as flat at the stern as ArkeaPaprec. Maybe more Charal-like

First thing I noticed as well. Less sticky in light air, and/or for a smoother transitional period into fully foiling?

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7 hours ago, Lakrass said:

With all new hulls fitted with foils and older boats being retrofitted, the next step is probably to allow foils on the rudder for VG 2024. Technology and fleet would be mature by then. Not sure hull shape makes a very big difference but it could become a bigger factor if it allows a boat to fly with less wind (now they are limited in a kind of transient state). But boats should also be designed to sail at 50 degrees south with all it implies. Nobody wants to be too radical and be responsible for a dead sailor, Alex being the exception.

Alex is very much on a higher saftey curve than the rest -look at HB6 ... 200mm toe rails, 1000mm guard rails

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21 hours ago, Lakrass said:

With all new hulls fitted with foils and older boats being retrofitted, the next step is probably to allow foils on the rudder for VG 2024. Technology and fleet would be mature by then. Not sure hull shape makes a very big difference but it could become a bigger factor if it allows a boat to fly with less wind (now they are limited in a kind of transient state). But boats should also be designed to sail at 50 degrees south with all it implies. Nobody wants to be too radical and be responsible for a dead sailor, Alex being the exception.

Hull shape may not be as important as they foil more, but weight will always be important and reducing hull size reduces weight.

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Now that Isabelle Joschke finally found a proper title sponsor, the team could afford a big refit for the 2007 VPLP-Verdier (formerly Safran/Queguiner http://www.histoiredeshalfs.com/Histoire%20des%2060'/A26.htm)

 

Image

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akYfbpcTjGM 

It's an old-ish boat, but its concept paved the way for literally 10 years of VPLP-Verdier IMOCA development. She definitely won't be fighting at the front, but given the performance of PRB with its new foils (and grandfathered in keel and mast) on the RdR, I think this one might still do well.

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https://www.scanvoile.com/2019/08/corum-imoca-troussel-nicolas-monocoque-construction-cdk-juan-K-.html#.XULYVzXYphE

Very slow build process for Corum continues to plod along.  Many months to go it seems.

corum_troussel_estich.jpg

Credit: E.Stichelbaut

Via Google...

The hull of the future IMOCA Corum at Mer Agitée: "We are launched in a real time trial"
Four months since the construction of IMOCA CORUM L'Epargne started. Teams from the CDK Technologies shipyard in Port-la-Forêt have handcrafted the carbon hull, which is now complete. Last Monday, the room was transferred within the structure Mer Agitée. Technicians now take over the assembly of the interior structures and all the systems that make up this complex puzzle. A crucial step for skipper Nicolas Troussel, who will lead the boat on the Vendée Globe.
The carbon hull, still safe in his mold, made his first trip. A real passage of witness and the beginning of a new phase of work which will last in total nearly 10 months. 
Greg Evrard, the director of the CORUM L'Epargne project: " The precision required to give birth to these high-tech boats involves know-how and rigor. We are thrown into a real time trial until the start of the Vendée Globe and every minute counts. This is the case on site but also at sea for Nicolas preparing for the Transat Jacques Vabre in October with Jean Le Cam. " Source: Corum

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I understand Corum is some startup investment fund with money to throw around. But... is that team ready? Corum built a new class 40. Didn't exactly knock the competition out of the water and didn't stick around beyond one season. 

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Agree.  Seems to be way way too late to be really ready.  But of course who knows.

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41 minutes ago, jb5 said:

a bit more on THomas Ruyant's new boat.  One new image. Credit: P Bouras.  Has a very conventional look.

_BO_8749.JPG

https://www.scanvoile.com/2019/08/thomas-ruyant-imoca-construction-monocoque-verdier-vendee-globe-antoine-koch.html#.XULe5DXYphE

That boat was conceived by Verdier to sail the crewed ocean race (former volvo). Verdier called it Open Sixty. Not optimised for Vendée Globe. Only the deck plan was altered.

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1 hour ago, Kalimotxo said:

That boat was conceived by Verdier to sail the crewed ocean race (former volvo). Verdier called it Open Sixty. Not optimised for Vendée Globe. Only the deck plan was altered.

I've not heard that before in connection with this boat.  If correct it seems an odd decision.  The VG project isn't funded, in fact he has nothing beyond the TJV as far as I know. If the boat isn't all in for VG may be hard to get serious sponsors not to mention last minute and the TOR is nowhere right now.

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17 minutes ago, jb5 said:

I've not heard that before in connection with this boat.  If correct it seems an odd decision.  The VG project isn't funded, in fact he has nothing beyond the TJV as far as I know. If the boat isn't all in for VG may be hard to get serious sponsors not to mention last minute and the TOR is nowhere right now.

I agree. I believe the initial aim was to gain time.

 

His own words:

Dominic BOURGEOIS Voiles et Voiliers

Translated by deepl.com

 

The new IMOCAs in the Vendée Globe 2020 are being launched in succession. Thomas Ruyant introduced us to his, signed Guillaume Verdier, currently finishing at Lorient-La Base and with whom he will be doing the Transat Jacques Vabre with Antoine Koch. While waiting for the launch, at the end of August, of this 60-foot boat in the colours of aDvens, equipped with a radical hull and original foils, Thomas Ruyant answers our questions with an open heart.

This 38-year-old skipper surprised many people during the last Vendée Globe, aboard the former Bel Group, renamed Le Souffle du Nord, until his violent percussion with a container off New Zealand. Aided by the Mini-Transat he won in 2009, winner of the 2010 Route du Rhum in Class40, winner of the last Transat Ag2r with Adrien Hardy, the young sailor already has some bottle when he sets off on the solo non-stop round the world race in 2016. He answers our questions while surveying the construction site in Oriental where the finishing work has begun on his IMOCA.

Sails and Sailboats: The project you are carrying today is the result of your participation in the 2016 Vendée Globe on Le Souffle du Nord, a VPLP-Verdier plan?

Thomas Ruyant: And the boat will sail around the world again, this time with Maxime Sorel under the name of V & B-Mayenne... In fact, when I arrived in Bluff in southern New Zealand, with Laurent Bourguès my captain boat, very quickly I wanted to sail around the world alone again: I was getting off on this format where the time spent at sea is at high speed. I wanted to do the Vendée Globe again, but by raising the level of play with a more recent, more efficient boat. However, it turned out that all the good boats of 2016 had already been sold! And the new IMOCA rule gave automatic pre-selection to new yachts: it was quickly decided to build a prototype. Fortunately, there were entrepreneurs who had followed me with Le Souffle du Nord and who were willing to invest in this project. We therefore launched the implementation of this IMOCA a year and a half ago.

Sails and Sailboats: And the choice of the architect, Guillaume Verdier?

Thomas Ruyant: Actually, I didn't consult other designers! I had done the Route du Rhum 2010 with a Verdier plan; on the Vendée Globe 2016, it was a Verdier plan. So I got closer to the architect with whom I get along very well and who had already made progress over the past year on a project (Open Sixty) for the crewed round the world race (ex-Volvo Ocean Race). So we decided to go on this basis to design my boat: we kept the design of the hull (except for a few modifications on the front) and we adapted the deck layout to the solitary. In addition, there were already parts made at Persico Marine in Italy. All these elements contributed to moving the project in the right direction quickly, and Charlie Dalin then chose the same architect, which kept costs down.
 

Sails and Sailboats: But it was a boat designed for the crew!

Thomas Ruyant: That's why we modified the deck layout with less freeboard and a cockpit inspired by Gitana 16. But I think the result is very different from Charlie Dalin's...

Sails and Sailboats: And around you, a team...

Thomas Ruyant: I wanted Laurent (Bourguès), whom I have known since the Mini-Transat, to be at my side as technical director. In fact, the team's choice was made first because they are sailors and préparateurs! Everyone must be able to navigate on board to be consistent. Today, at the end of construction, there are a dozen of us until the Transat Jacques Vabre, then eight for the 2020 season. François Pernelle, who worked for Jean-Pierre Dick, joined us in the design office, then Marcus Hutchinson (project manager), Lucas Montagne (electricity-electronics), Simon Vasseur (rigging), Christophe Dansart (composite)...

Sails and Sailboats: Not to mention Antoine Koch!

Thomas Ruyant: He left the Gitana Team after many years of experience as a naval architect and navigator in multihulls and monohulls. I had already met him when I was sailing with Boris Herrmann on Malizia, formerly Gitana 16, which Antoine Koch had followed in its design and construction. We trained all winter in Figaro Bénéteau 3 to get to know each other. He is the one who makes the link between the architect Guillaume Verdier and the team, because he is trained as an engineer and naval architect: he has a more scientific approach than me! He particularly worked on the appendages (foils, rudders, keel bulb) and the set of sails.

Sails and Sailboats: Antoine will be your teammate in the Transat Jacques Vabre.

Thomas Ruyant: The boat is due to be launched at the end of August: we will do the Azimuth Challenge in Lorient, then the Transat Jacques Vabre together. We will certainly not be 100%, because we must first understand this prototype. After Brazil, I plan to cross solo to Cape Verde and then the boat will be brought back to Lorient with the technical team.

Thomas Ruyant: The investors are the owners of the boat but in terms of operations, I needed a budget: aDvens, who had already followed me on the Transat Jacques Vabre 2017, then on the Solitaire URGO Le Figaro this year, decided to support me for this autumn race. The boat is already called aDvens for Cybersecurity... And number 59 (Northern Department)!

 

Sails and Sailboats: Let's talk about the boat...

 

Thomas Ruyant: It's hard to say compared to the other new prototypes! Especially since the only one we've seen sailing is Charal. For sure, aDvens is radically different in terms of hull, foils, keel bulb. Well, everyone is on approximately the same boat width (5.40 meters), with the width constraint at one meter behind the bow (1.12 meters). The objective of all sailors is to gain weight and lower the centre of gravity, so we have a rather low freeboard. The big difference compared to the boats of the last edition: narrower, more voluminous in front, longer foils, recessed sail plan.

 

Sails and Sailboats: The IMOCA gauge provides a frame.

 

Thomas Ruyant: Yes, such as the angle of the mast outriggers which limits the width. But the boats are very different: Charal is rather narrow in its rear shapes while Arkéa-Paprec is even flatter in the hull. There will be a significant speed differential between this new generation and the IMOCAs before: the technical transition began in 2015 with hydrofoil hulls, and today we are making real hydrofoilers! We will not fly stabilized, because the load-bearing planes on the rudders are prohibited, but we will have flight phases.…

 

Sails and Sailboats: The foils are missing!

 

Thomas Ruyant: They are not finished. But they will be even more powerful than in 2016. In fact, everything is linked between the sail plan, the position of the foils and the hull. We have gained in foil length (more than 3.5 metres out).

 

Sails and Sailboats: On aDvens, the shape of the shaft is particular...

 

Thomas Ruyant: We have S-shaped foils to tilt the foil up when it is retracted, and horizontally when it is extended. And we have a rake adjustment (front-rear modification of the inner hold to change the incidence of the foil, editor's note) which allows us to modulate the foil's power: we have five degrees of freedom with very large foil spans. It was found that for hydro and aerodynamic reasons, it was necessary for the tip (vertical end of the foil, which is opposed to the shaft) to come out of the water, which is why they are very elongated, but very thin for cavitation problems at the ends. But we can see that the shapes of the foils are very different from one boat to another.

 

Sails and Sailboats: The sail plan is quite long too.

 

Thomas Ruyant: As the mast has moved back further, the mainsail is also more elongated and the sail profiles are flatter because the boats are faster. But we also notice that the foilers need to be less cloth to go fast: at the last Azimuth Challenge, Charal was under two reefs and D-3 when the others were under one reef and D-2! From now on, the new generation IMOCAs have VPPs (speed polar) identical to MOD70 trimarans!

 

Sails and Sailboats: With a very pronounced bilge, you will have to sail in a heeled position!

 

Thomas Ruyant: These are boats that do not run flat. A minimum of 10° of heel is required and the optimum is between 17° and 23°. But we wanted to have a relatively versatile boat.

 

Sails and Sailboats: The next meetings?

 

Thomas Ruyant: After the launch at the end of August, we continue with the Azimuth Challenge in doubles (even if we won't be frankly ready), then with the Transat Jacques Vabre. And in 2020, The Transat (mid-May), the Transat New York-Vendée (June 16), Défi Azimut (mid-September) and the Vendée Globe (November 8)! The boat is already selected but you still have to qualify solo, either in the race or on delivery... And I'm already very happy that this project is taking shape because I'm learning a lot about all sectors!

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1 hour ago, Kalimotxo said:

I agree. I believe the initial aim was to gain time.

 

His own words:

Dominic BOURGEOIS Voiles et Voiliers

Translated by deepl.com

 

The new IMOCAs in the Vendée Globe 2020 are being launched in succession. Thomas Ruyant introduced us to his, signed Guillaume Verdier, currently finishing at Lorient-La Base and with whom he will be doing the Transat Jacques Vabre with Antoine Koch. While waiting for the launch, at the end of August, of this 60-foot boat in the colours of aDvens, equipped with a radical hull and original foils, Thomas Ruyant answers our questions with an open heart.

This 38-year-old skipper surprised many people during the last Vendée Globe, aboard the former Bel Group, renamed Le Souffle du Nord, until his violent percussion with a container off New Zealand. Aided by the Mini-Transat he won in 2009, winner of the 2010 Route du Rhum in Class40, winner of the last Transat Ag2r with Adrien Hardy, the young sailor already has some bottle when he sets off on the solo non-stop round the world race in 2016. He answers our questions while surveying the construction site in Oriental where the finishing work has begun on his IMOCA.

Sails and Sailboats: The project you are carrying today is the result of your participation in the 2016 Vendée Globe on Le Souffle du Nord, a VPLP-Verdier plan?

Thomas Ruyant: And the boat will sail around the world again, this time with Maxime Sorel under the name of V & B-Mayenne... In fact, when I arrived in Bluff in southern New Zealand, with Laurent Bourguès my captain boat, very quickly I wanted to sail around the world alone again: I was getting off on this format where the time spent at sea is at high speed. I wanted to do the Vendée Globe again, but by raising the level of play with a more recent, more efficient boat. However, it turned out that all the good boats of 2016 had already been sold! And the new IMOCA rule gave automatic pre-selection to new yachts: it was quickly decided to build a prototype. Fortunately, there were entrepreneurs who had followed me with Le Souffle du Nord and who were willing to invest in this project. We therefore launched the implementation of this IMOCA a year and a half ago.

Sails and Sailboats: And the choice of the architect, Guillaume Verdier?

Thomas Ruyant: Actually, I didn't consult other designers! I had done the Route du Rhum 2010 with a Verdier plan; on the Vendée Globe 2016, it was a Verdier plan. So I got closer to the architect with whom I get along very well and who had already made progress over the past year on a project (Open Sixty) for the crewed round the world race (ex-Volvo Ocean Race). So we decided to go on this basis to design my boat: we kept the design of the hull (except for a few modifications on the front) and we adapted the deck layout to the solitary. In addition, there were already parts made at Persico Marine in Italy. All these elements contributed to moving the project in the right direction quickly, and Charlie Dalin then chose the same architect, which kept costs down.
 

Sails and Sailboats: But it was a boat designed for the crew!

Thomas Ruyant: That's why we modified the deck layout with less freeboard and a cockpit inspired by Gitana 16. But I think the result is very different from Charlie Dalin's...

Sails and Sailboats: And around you, a team...

Thomas Ruyant: I wanted Laurent (Bourguès), whom I have known since the Mini-Transat, to be at my side as technical director. In fact, the team's choice was made first because they are sailors and préparateurs! Everyone must be able to navigate on board to be consistent. Today, at the end of construction, there are a dozen of us until the Transat Jacques Vabre, then eight for the 2020 season. François Pernelle, who worked for Jean-Pierre Dick, joined us in the design office, then Marcus Hutchinson (project manager), Lucas Montagne (electricity-electronics), Simon Vasseur (rigging), Christophe Dansart (composite)...

Sails and Sailboats: Not to mention Antoine Koch!

Thomas Ruyant: He left the Gitana Team after many years of experience as a naval architect and navigator in multihulls and monohulls. I had already met him when I was sailing with Boris Herrmann on Malizia, formerly Gitana 16, which Antoine Koch had followed in its design and construction. We trained all winter in Figaro Bénéteau 3 to get to know each other. He is the one who makes the link between the architect Guillaume Verdier and the team, because he is trained as an engineer and naval architect: he has a more scientific approach than me! He particularly worked on the appendages (foils, rudders, keel bulb) and the set of sails.

Sails and Sailboats: Antoine will be your teammate in the Transat Jacques Vabre.

Thomas Ruyant: The boat is due to be launched at the end of August: we will do the Azimuth Challenge in Lorient, then the Transat Jacques Vabre together. We will certainly not be 100%, because we must first understand this prototype. After Brazil, I plan to cross solo to Cape Verde and then the boat will be brought back to Lorient with the technical team.

Thomas Ruyant: The investors are the owners of the boat but in terms of operations, I needed a budget: aDvens, who had already followed me on the Transat Jacques Vabre 2017, then on the Solitaire URGO Le Figaro this year, decided to support me for this autumn race. The boat is already called aDvens for Cybersecurity... And number 59 (Northern Department)!

 

Sails and Sailboats: Let's talk about the boat...

 

Thomas Ruyant: It's hard to say compared to the other new prototypes! Especially since the only one we've seen sailing is Charal. For sure, aDvens is radically different in terms of hull, foils, keel bulb. Well, everyone is on approximately the same boat width (5.40 meters), with the width constraint at one meter behind the bow (1.12 meters). The objective of all sailors is to gain weight and lower the centre of gravity, so we have a rather low freeboard. The big difference compared to the boats of the last edition: narrower, more voluminous in front, longer foils, recessed sail plan.

 

Sails and Sailboats: The IMOCA gauge provides a frame.

 

Thomas Ruyant: Yes, such as the angle of the mast outriggers which limits the width. But the boats are very different: Charal is rather narrow in its rear shapes while Arkéa-Paprec is even flatter in the hull. There will be a significant speed differential between this new generation and the IMOCAs before: the technical transition began in 2015 with hydrofoil hulls, and today we are making real hydrofoilers! We will not fly stabilized, because the load-bearing planes on the rudders are prohibited, but we will have flight phases.…

 

Sails and Sailboats: The foils are missing!

 

Thomas Ruyant: They are not finished. But they will be even more powerful than in 2016. In fact, everything is linked between the sail plan, the position of the foils and the hull. We have gained in foil length (more than 3.5 metres out).

 

Sails and Sailboats: On aDvens, the shape of the shaft is particular...

 

Thomas Ruyant: We have S-shaped foils to tilt the foil up when it is retracted, and horizontally when it is extended. And we have a rake adjustment (front-rear modification of the inner hold to change the incidence of the foil, editor's note) which allows us to modulate the foil's power: we have five degrees of freedom with very large foil spans. It was found that for hydro and aerodynamic reasons, it was necessary for the tip (vertical end of the foil, which is opposed to the shaft) to come out of the water, which is why they are very elongated, but very thin for cavitation problems at the ends. But we can see that the shapes of the foils are very different from one boat to another.

 

Sails and Sailboats: The sail plan is quite long too.

 

Thomas Ruyant: As the mast has moved back further, the mainsail is also more elongated and the sail profiles are flatter because the boats are faster. But we also notice that the foilers need to be less cloth to go fast: at the last Azimuth Challenge, Charal was under two reefs and D-3 when the others were under one reef and D-2! From now on, the new generation IMOCAs have VPPs (speed polar) identical to MOD70 trimarans!

 

Sails and Sailboats: With a very pronounced bilge, you will have to sail in a heeled position!

 

Thomas Ruyant: These are boats that do not run flat. A minimum of 10° of heel is required and the optimum is between 17° and 23°. But we wanted to have a relatively versatile boat.

 

Sails and Sailboats: The next meetings?

 

Thomas Ruyant: After the launch at the end of August, we continue with the Azimuth Challenge in doubles (even if we won't be frankly ready), then with the Transat Jacques Vabre. And in 2020, The Transat (mid-May), the Transat New York-Vendée (June 16), Défi Azimut (mid-September) and the Vendée Globe (November 8)! The boat is already selected but you still have to qualify solo, either in the race or on delivery... And I'm already very happy that this project is taking shape because I'm learning a lot about all sectors!

thanks. i should have read that article earlier. he did really well in the last VG on an older boat until it broke. i hope he gets it all together.

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That was a nice revealing interview with Ruyant.  Same polars as a MOD 70 is hard to believe, but exciting.  He also confirmed that the OD wingmast dictates the max beam of the boats, since spreader/shroud geometry is fixed.  You can even see it being accommodated by Juan K in this pic where the D0 shroud would otherwise terminate on the chine.

Screenshot_2019-08-01-13-00-55.png

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yea wtf, the claim about similar polars to a MOD70 can't be right, especially upwind. but if it is, the foils have added way more speed to these things than, I for one, had assumed. nuts.

but then again, I realize that this isn't really indicative of much, but didn't Thomas hit 38 knots on HB solo within past couple of years? I'd imagine that'd be quite stressful mentally, but that's racing.

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7 hours ago, 3to1 said:

yea wtf, the claim about similar polars to a MOD70 can't be right, especially upwind. but if it is, the foils have added way more speed to these things than, I for one, had assumed. nuts.

but then again, I realize that this isn't really indicative of much, but didn't Thomas* hit 38 knots on HB solo within past couple of years? I'd imagine that'd be quite stressful mentally, but that's racing.

*edit- Thomson

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8 hours ago, r.finn said:

That was a nice revealing interview with Ruyant.  Same polars as a MOD 70 is hard to believe, but exciting.  He also confirmed that the OD wingmast dictates the max beam of the boats, since spreader/shroud geometry is fixed.  You can even see it being accommodated by Juan K in this pic where the D0 shroud would otherwise terminate on the chine.

Screenshot_2019-08-01-13-00-55.png

So, back to IOR-like rating bumps and angles are we? 

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He's probably totaling about the polar shape/distribution (e.g. fastest points of sail + sail selection) and not that the absolute numbers being surpassed. 


 

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11 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

So, back to IOR-like rating bumps and angles are we? 

More like a new rules canoe?  As far as the engineering of shroud connection points...

 

 

6A604F1E-5D73-4F61-B88B-3FDCB01DADA0.jpeg

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Image may contain: sky, boat, cloud, outdoor and water

Looks like they've stacked a couple of totes on each side to aid getting from the cockpit to the deck. The mystery cutout that was seen in the earlier pics with the cockpit floor covered is the raft. 

 

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I'd imagine an asymmetric sail they bring along but never use and keep wetted in the cockpit can probably serve as a nice mushy step.

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13 minutes ago, Miffy said:

I'd imagine an asymmetric sail they bring along but never use and keep wetted in the cockpit can probably serve as a nice mushy step.

Agree that the stack is going to be the likely step. The above pic is from the delivery for the Fastnet so might not a realistic for racing 

 

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1 hour ago, Tito said:

My goodness...

I mean, I love hype more than most. 

But this is getting out of control. 

Their pr engine is way over the top but I suppose they keep the sponsors happy. Generally it just makes me ignore them like I do all advertising. 

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Hugo Boss unveiled in other sections (sort of shows the shorthanded/ocean bifurcation)

I like her lines. Looks natural. Can't imagine how she'll look with foils. 

 

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ATR teaser showed some interesting hull lines in the rear though. Look at the concavity by rudders(?) and the convexity near keel linkage(?). 

685D7152-135A-479C-A79F-1D966A524716.png

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1 hour ago, Miffy said:

Hugo Boss unveiled in other sections (sort of shows the shorthanded/ocean bifurcation)

I like her lines. Looks natural. Can't imagine how she'll look with foils. 

 

Really a mess that bifurcation..

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1 hour ago, Roller Skates said:

ATR teaser showed some interesting hull lines in the rear though. Look at the concavity by rudders(?) and the convexity near keel linkage(?). 

685D7152-135A-479C-A79F-1D966A524716.png

Looks closer to Charal's approach than Arkea Paprec (much flatter).  Charal is also VLVP I think so not too surprising i guess.

Can't really see much in either picture.  Anyone know when it launches?

And of course now there is a whole other thread in Ocean which is where this thread should have stayed.  F'n mess.

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1 hour ago, jb5 said:

Looks closer to Charal's approach than Arkea Paprec (much flatter).  Charal is also VLVP I think so not too surprising i guess.

Can't really see much in either picture.  Anyone know when it launches?

And of course now there is a whole other thread in Ocean which is where this thread should have stayed.  F'n mess.

 Especially considering the fact that Imocas are now the offcial class of "The Ocean Race"(hoping it happens)

Fuckin mess indeed 

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On 8/3/2019 at 7:07 AM, ctutmark said:

Agree that the stack is going to be the likely step. The above pic is from the delivery for the Fastnet so might not a realistic for racing 

 

I bet it gets changed before the vendee.  One of those things that is great on paper but just a pain in the arse in practice.

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3 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

I bet it gets changed before the vendee.  One of those things that is great on paper but just a pain in the arse in practice.

Agreed, my first thought was something like this to contain the stack and could be climbed up to get on deck. Still would be precarious at best getting down Bully TR-02WK Heavy Duty Cargo Tailgate Net for Mid Size Pickup Truck Cab Truck Bed - Black Pack of 1

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9 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

not planing on spending much time on deck then.

Solitary confinement.

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38 minutes ago, r.finn said:

Solitary confinement.

And not crew/TOR friendly for sure.

But for the VG, looks like a winner.

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2 hours ago, yl75 said:

And not crew/TOR friendly for sure.

But for the VG, looks like a winner.

overall looks very similar to Charal.  Cockpit (underpit?) aside. Solar to the max.

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It would be great to see inside  the boat including the haylards, sheets, winches, tiller, instrument displays, seat etc?

There must be some type of second lower cockpit enclosed with the solar panels being transparent!

Does the coach top lift up on some type of hinge arrangement to allow access to the enclosed cockpit?

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Chucky, I think that you are wrong about the lower cockpit, just the interior where all work is now done rather than just navigation, eating and sleeping. And very much doubt those solar panels are transparent, or that the coachroof is hinged. I wonder where the sail stack will live.

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9 minutes ago, ctutmark said:

 

EBMbx5HWsAET8GN.jpg

EBMQT2yW4AAUDqQ.jpg

Hate to be negative, but I can see a sizable percentage of broken foils before the race is half done.

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Quite a healthy class isn't it? About a year or so ago there were naysayers (always English) saying how the class doesn't seem particularly healthy. How many all new foiling boats are there? How many rebuilt? 

Kojiro is unveiling his August-September.

If only others took note re what makes it successful. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Hate to be negative, but I can see a sizable percentage of broken foils before the race is half done.

look similar to Sam's new foils.  Also PRBs.  The new normal.  All in on the foils.

Its going to be hard to take but there will of course be breakages just like there have been in every VG.  Foils, rudders....  Managing to 'miss' everything floating around out there will be key just like reliability.  Charal has a excellent head start in the reliability stakes.  May be very hard to beat if they can have a clean run.

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Waiting to see more of Apivia, but between these pics and what we know of Thomas Ruyant's boat, the Verdier concepts seem less "groundbreaking" than the others. Probably because they were based on the Open Sixty project from the Volvo. 

Now, we all know groundbreaking doesn't necesserally mean fast, especially on an endurance race like the Vendée.

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9 hours ago, Zeusproject said:

Them foils are huge 

6263356D-7705-4DC7-87D3-CC4421EC2983.jpeg

Interested to see if that bow knuckle floats above the water the Lombard Class 40's do.  I don't see a reason Lombard's Class 40 bow volume hack wouldn't be applicable in IMOCA.

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5 hours ago, jb5 said:

look similar to Sam's new foils.  Also PRBs.  The new normal.  All in on the foils.

Its going to be hard to take but there will of course be breakages just like there have been in every VG.  Foils, rudders....  Managing to 'miss' everything floating around out there will be key just like reliability.  Charal has a excellent head start in the reliability stakes.  May be very hard to beat if they can have a clean run.

As co-commentator at the start of the Fastnet Race, Alex Thomson said that he didn't know if he had lost his right foil in a collision or if it had simply broken off due to structural damage. 

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7 minutes ago, Milli said:

As co-commentator at the start of the Fastnet Race, Alex Thomson said that he didn't know if he had lost his right foil in a collision or if it had simply broken off due to structural damage. 

Well... Broken is broken isn't it? 

Reliability is definitely going to be the main player here. 

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5 minutes ago, Milli said:

As co-commentator at the start of the Fastnet Race, Alex Thomson said that he didn't know if he had lost his right foil in a collision or if it had simply broken off due to structural damage. 

There was some theory among the team that since the foil wasn't fully extended when it snapped, it didn't flex as much which could have caused structural failure.  But that's just another theory.

 

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48 minutes ago, Tito said:

Well... Broken is broken isn't it? 

Reliability is definitely going to be the main player here. 

How do you build reliability into avoiding floating obstacles that 99%+ of the time you will never even see coming? Isn't it you either go around cleanly by luck (?) or you don't and are out or slowed.

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14 minutes ago, jb5 said:

How do you build reliability into avoiding floating obstacles that 99%+ of the time you will never even see coming? Isn't it you either go around cleanly by luck (?) or you don't and are out or slowed.

Look at rudders, they kick back instead of breaking.

You build it in by anticipating floating obstacles 99% of the time as you mention, as an inevitability. Thus the question is how can it be handled when the inevitability is inevitable.

Make the foils out of pure diamonds and graphene I say.

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Safran once did a titanium keel spar (before they became OD). Broke off about 30 mins into the VG. Could be valuable if anyone ever found it.

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12 hours ago, Zeusproject said:

35419548-DECB-45E9-A32E-6DEA8013CAE4.jpeg

03B2DE95-2824-433A-8D7A-4BC55E393F44.jpeg

17525D85-BC58-4239-8561-7F2C691A0359.jpeg

E0BDEF51-09FD-4105-9D7F-49E7DBF6C588.jpeg

I haven't seen a hull so clearly designed around the concept of diagonals in years.

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On 8/1/2019 at 2:36 PM, 3to1 said:

yea wtf, the claim about similar polars to a MOD70 can't be right, especially upwind. but if it is, the foils have added way more speed to these things than, I for one, had assumed. nuts.

Especially considering the only Multi 50 in the Fastnet finished in front of first placed Charal, I just cannot believe they were suggesting new IMOCA's are 1:1 with a MOD70.

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Apivia has a clear “chine” at the bottom right? Definitely not expecting to sail the boat flat ever. 

Also, banque pop finished 3rd in the Fastnet and they have daggerboards; interesting! 

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Anyone know what happened to Arkea Paprec in the Fastnet race? They obviously broke something good or had a major failure?

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4 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Anyone know what happened to Arkea Paprec in the Fastnet race? They obviously broke something good or had a major failure?

I read on a french website (course au large maybe) that they had an electric failure and they had to retire.

 

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