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30 knots

Can't imaging sailing like that for more than a couple of hours without feeling completely and totally wiped out.

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Who's the designer? If you went all in on the foils I think the tendency would be to move the rig, displacement etc aft, Plus foredeck is irrelevant. This shows you how far back the mast is. since the keel is basically under the mast.

IMG_6900-644x858.jpg

Speng maybe he should race with that thing as the rig....then he certainly won't be breaking it.

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............

When did keels stop being orange? Don't people remember that orange is fast? Or is yellow the new orange?

Luminous paint...Alex is afraid of the dark and he is allergic to crawling around looking for glow sticks after 6.00pm.

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No...that warning role rests with the falling rig.

Bizarrely, if I remember correctly, I think all the collisions have ended up with broken foils. I can't remember one that had resulted in the rig coming down.

Having been stopped by a while when going upwind, it completely turned the boat around, so quite surprised that those forces when doing 30kts downwind has not resulted in a downed rig.

Anyone able to correct me? Mayb e the stresses do result in a failure at a later date...

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Who's the designer? If you went all in on the foils I think the tendency would be to move the rig, displacement etc aft, Plus foredeck is irrelevant. This shows you how far back the mast is. since the keel is basically under the mast.

IMG_6900-644x858.jpg

It's a joke...isn't it?

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No joke mili..they are very colour conscious lot... hence the colour coordination plan capturing the keel and high-viz vests. There are people on deck wearing honeycomb vests but you can't see them.

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There's a piece at Sailing World, Cooking the Machine, about the build of the Verdier / VPLP designed Comanche. It gives a bit of an insight into the structure, and I was surprised that so much of the hull is monolithic, rather than sandwich.

Kevlar core, however, is absent in the hull sections forward of the keel. That area of the boat is monolithic carbon fiber measuring up to 7 millimeters thickness, and that is where the “NewCubed” project becomes more complicated for Hacket and Linton. They’re more accustomed to core throughout the yacht. But in an effort to save weight while maximizing hull strength, the designers, Guillaume Verdier and VPLP, have incorporated a design feature usually found in their IMOCA offshore yachts; many bulkheads and hull stringers.

And:

“We estimate a weight savings of 200 kilograms (441 pounds) on this boat compared to a solution with a sandwich hull and less structure.”

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No...that warning role rests with the falling rig.

Bizarrely, if I remember correctly, I think all the collisions have ended up with broken foils. I can't remember one that had resulted in the rig coming down.

Having been stopped by a while when going upwind, it completely turned the boat around, so quite surprised that those forces when doing 30kts downwind has not resulted in a downed rig.

Anyone able to correct me? Mayb e the stresses do result in a failure at a later date...

Me neither Potter...then again I never heard of anyone having their keel at full cant and when going flat chat hit a whale with the bulb ...which you think about a lot in some places where they are everywhere.

 

Maybe they don't mind a rub when your poking along but have a sense of your speed at full throttle and stay clear.

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interesting piece buckie,

 

“The French designers are different from the Anglo-Saxon designers we are used to working with,” says Linton. “How they’ve engineered the structure in the boat is different from anything we’ve seen.”

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There's a piece at Sailing World, Cooking the Machine, about the build of the Verdier / VPLP designed Comanche. It gives a bit of an insight into the structure, and I was surprised that so much of the hull is monolithic, rather than sandwich.

 

Kevlar core, however, is absent in the hull sections forward of the keel. That area of the boat is monolithic carbon fiber measuring up to 7 millimeters thickness, and that is where the NewCubed project becomes more complicated for Hacket and Linton. Theyre more accustomed to core throughout the yacht. But in an effort to save weight while maximizing hull strength, the designers, Guillaume Verdier and VPLP, have incorporated a design feature usually found in their IMOCA offshore yachts; many bulkheads and hull stringers.

 

And:

 

We estimate a weight savings of 200 kilograms (441 pounds) on this boat compared to a solution with a sandwich hull and less structure.

Monolithic fwd of the mast is hardly a new concept, the core simply shears under slamming loads.

 

Old V60's discovered this issue quite early on and I believe the open 60's took a similar approach quite a while ago.

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Anyone know if the H Boss hull/deck was joined horizontaly mid-hull like Gitana 16, or vertical along the centreline??

Good question.

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Anyone know if the H Boss hull/deck was joined horizontaly mid-hull like Gitana 16, or vertical along the centreline??

Good question.

 

On the teams Facebook page it shows them building the molds for the deck, and transporting the hull via truck, so I believe horizontal deck/hull join.

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Anyone know if the H Boss hull/deck was joined horizontaly mid-hull like Gitana 16, or vertical along the centreline??

Good question.

On the teams Facebook page it shows them building the molds for the deck, and transporting the hull via truck, so I believe horizontal deck/hull join.

Thanks Evan. I was hoping it was a centreline join and hearing of the construct comparisons with a horizontal method for these boats and their bulkheads. Not to be. Cheers.

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another reason for the topside treatment of Hugo boss would be better aero, getting a cleaner flow onto the headsails.

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Saw Hugo Boss motoring down Southampton water this afternoon. Mast up.

That's a good sign :unsure:

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Foils on the IMOCAs what the designers think :

 

http://www.vendeeglobe.org/en/news/article/14914/foils-on-the-imocas-what-the-designers-think.html

 

Wait and see for the moment.

Thanks Scip. While they acknowledge older boats are better all-rounders and new ones are more race course specific I found this statement by Verdier very strange:

 

"Thanks to the foiling appendages, she slams less and the shocks to the structure are better absorbed. That wasnt something we necessarily expected when we designed the foils, so its a nice surprise."

 

I would have thought one of largest contributors for getting a solo boat around the planet faster and having front end importance in any design would be via increasing crew comfort and keeping it in one piece, particularly during long periods of heavy reaching... where these new foils excel.

 

Maybe Verdier was just foxing during this interview saying it was an unexpected benefit = a very significant benefit planned for and is expected which will blow older boats out of the water??

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why would they not expect that? Reading all the original reports from the DSS website notes that the comfort level was greatly increased and for that reason was totally applicable to the cruising fraternity quite apart from the racers. Maybe they don't read Pom-speak! Also been noted in the powerboat world for motion damping so nothing new there, guess those Froglets don't look outside their own world much.

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I have always thought (purely instinctively) that one of the biggest advantages of foiling would be a smoother ride. Nice to hear that my wild guess is true (so far).

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Saw Hugo Boss motoring down Southampton water this afternoon. Mast up.

That's a good sign :unsure:

Don't think engine needs any luck :-)

Does mean they've probably done the right from inverted test.

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Saw Hugo Boss motoring down Southampton water this afternoon. Mast up.

That's a good sign :unsure:
Don't think engine needs any luck :-)
Does mean they've probably done the right from inverted test.

I must be too cryptic for you Ed :-) The old HB lost its rig, 2 or was it 3 times.. I forget. That is far from lucky when you consider there are things like VO70's still running around today with their original rigs.

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Saw Hugo Boss motoring down Southampton water this afternoon. Mast up.

That's a good sign :unsure:
Don't think engine needs any luck :-)
Does mean they've probably done the right from inverted test.

I must be too cryptic for you Ed :-) The old HB lost its rig, 2 or was it 3 times.. I forget. That is far from lucky when you consider there are things like VO70's still running around today with their original rigs.

Not Giacomo though.

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I have always thought (purely instinctively) that one of the biggest advantages of foiling would be a smoother ride. Nice to hear that my wild guess is true (so far).

 

One of the biggest surprises in my report on the first foiling GC32 was how insanely smooth it was. "No hard landings".

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One of my biggest surprises was that you posted a report...........

 

(Unlike the G4 video which remains MIA)

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I have always thought (purely instinctively) that one of the biggest advantages of foiling would be a smoother ride. Nice to hear that my wild guess is true (so far).

watching the Edmond Roschtild video, doesn't look very smooth, imagine the southern ocean

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One of my biggest surprises was that you posted a report...........

 

(Unlike the G4 video which remains MIA)

ja ja ja good one!!!

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Yes. Konstantin Gricic, designer extraordinaire. A man of style and impeccable vision. When he says "it must be a black boat", then it must be a black boat. "But what about the structural integrity? The tropics and theSouthern Ocean?" Phooey, say Konstantin. It must be black as is my Hugo Boss suit which I wear so impeccably well.

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Boss_Deck.jpg

 

My thoughts:

  1. That deck is very flat. Didn't they used to be convex to aid with self-righting?
  2. The chamfers or chines on the topside of the bow are different. I thought that they might have been to reduce bow volume, but the rule is only concerned with beam. Could it be there to stiffen the structure?
  3. The photos are shot with a wide angle lens, which is exaggerating the perspective. My guess would be that the side deck around the cabin top is around a metre wide (look at the size of the boat builder), so you're probably looking at a hull that's around the 5.85 m BMAX set out in the class rule.
  4. If you look at pictures of the older (circa 2008) generation of boats, they look an awful lot chunkier. I was wondering where they'd lost a tonne of displacement from a few days ago, but I think it's apparent that they've slimmed down around the transom.
  5. When did keels stop being orange? Don't people remember that orange is fast? Or is yellow the new orange?

The new Boss is a cool looking boat. And once again Alex has got the best paint job in the fleet!

 

Why so heavily chamfered HB bows?

 

1) Saves weight and makes for a stronger structure.

2) Less wind and wave resistance/drag.

3) Less shadowing and air turbulence to the lower sails , especially jib when heeled.

4) Deflects low level air up and to leeward towards the sails. compressed airflow = smoother faster airflow.

5) Delfects spray to leeward as opposed to windward (and eventually in your face at the back of the boat).

6) Spills deck greenwater faster.

 

Leading edge multihulls have been doing it for quite a while now.....it makes even more sense for a well heeled boat

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From shelves, vanities and chairs to a 60ft round the world yacht is quite a jump

Not so...he was involved in the last boat....did the non-reflective freeze-dried colour scheme.

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Alex says @ 2:10 "Each detail must be perfect...if not.. best case is I'm uncompetitive, worse case is I lose my life"......and really, really worse case is... a whale fucks me and my non-reflective boat and doesn't ask for my phone number.

 

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sorry for the previous mess

 

heavily chamfered HB bow , is it a good design ?? as it's a reduced bow volume.

it's less power, in high wind maybe.

anyway, none other team made such radical option (imoca, maxi, vor 70 & 65, even mini).

it seems clever but at risk, can't wait for first feed-back.

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I would not be surprised in aim of optimising longitudinal balance and to keep bow up, this chamfered design approach comes mainly from minimising material in an area where more material/stronger heavier construction is required to combat additional loads and pressures forward of the mast. The better fluid and aero dynamic's etc attached to the chamfer just happen to be secondary pluses that come from hitting that core design target.

 

Or it was the graphics guy who was trying to get his honeycomb shapes to join up nicely :-)

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Boss_Deck.jpg

 

My thoughts:

  1. That deck is very flat. Didn't they used to be convex to aid with self-righting?
  2. The chamfers or chines on the topside of the bow are different. I thought that they might have been to reduce bow volume, but the rule is only concerned with beam. Could it be there to stiffen the structure?
  3. The photos are shot with a wide angle lens, which is exaggerating the perspective. My guess would be that the side deck around the cabin top is around a metre wide (look at the size of the boat builder), so you're probably looking at a hull that's around the 5.85 m BMAX set out in the class rule.
  4. If you look at pictures of the older (circa 2008) generation of boats, they look an awful lot chunkier. I was wondering where they'd lost a tonne of displacement from a few days ago, but I think it's apparent that they've slimmed down around the transom.
  5. When did keels stop being orange? Don't people remember that orange is fast? Or is yellow the new orange?

The new Boss is a cool looking boat. And once again Alex has got the best paint job in the fleet!

 

Why so heavily chamfered HB bows?

 

1) Saves weight and makes for a stronger structure.

2) Less wind and wave resistance/drag.

3) Less shadowing and air turbulence to the lower sails , especially jib when heeled.

4) Deflects low level air up and to leeward towards the sails. compressed airflow = smoother faster airflow.

5) Delfects spray to leeward as opposed to windward (and eventually in your face at the back of the boat).

6) Spills deck greenwater faster.

 

Leading edge multihulls have been doing it for quite a while now.....it makes even more sense for a well heeled boat

 

 

It's mostly 1).

The number one goal of the designers is to reduce the weight of the boat (foils notwithstanding), but one has to take a key element into account here : The stability requirements of the IMOCA rules.

 

Basically, on one hand you want to reduce the weight and lower the CG (center of gravity) of the boat minus keel as much as you can, so removing any part of the deck is a good thing. Plus, having one more chine in the topsides reduces structural panels dimensions. This means you can have less carbon and/or core thickness, and therefore less weight and better CG (*). Since the overall CG of an IMOCA is largely under its hull bottom (actually meaning that the weight reduction of ANY part of the boat except its keel is good for the CG height !!!), all this means you can lower the weight of the keel bulb.

 

On the other hand, the large angle stability rules means you need to have volume in the sheerline at that angle (110°). So the cutout is more or less limited to the part of the sheerline that stays outside of the water at 110°.

 

 

 

 

PS : The IMOCA and the mini rules work approx. the same : the way their stability rules are written promote high freeboard (at least for the part that's in the water at the measuring angle), because there is no minimal weight. The Class 40 rule, with its minimal weight that is not very difficult to obtain and its prescribed range of stability at 90°, promotes to lower the freeboard and reduce sheerline volume, hence the full-length sheerline cutouts that you see on all Class 40 modern designs.

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Tied up in Gosport

 

COO9jIsWsAQf6WK.jpg

What a beast. Interesting that Alex has gone for deck spreaders this time.

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Tied up in Gosport

 

COO9jIsWsAQf6WK.jpg

What a beast. Interesting that Alex has gone for deck spreaders this time.

 

 

The masts being standardised, there are now (Class rules 2015) only two possible rig types : Wing mast with outriggers or fixed mast with spreaders. So Alex had to go for the spreaders when choosing a fixed mast.

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The masts being standardised, there are now (Class rules 2015) only two possible rig types : Wing mast with outriggers or fixed mast with spreaders. So Alex had to go for the spreaders when choosing a fixed mast.

 

 

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. What?

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^ Alex has never used this rig before IIRC, preferring to go for a traditional fixed rig with spreaders. The point I'm making, is that he has made a change this time.

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He did have this wing masted

 

^ Alex has never used this rig before IIRC, preferring to go for a traditional fixed rig with spreaders. The point I'm making, is that he has made a change this time.

 

Except for this boat.

 

sill.jpg

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He did have this wing masted

 

^ Alex has never used this rig before IIRC, preferring to go for a traditional fixed rig with spreaders. The point I'm making, is that he has made a change this time.

 

Except for this boat.

 

sill.jpg

Thanks for the correction, r.finn.

 

That was a former Hugo Boss, from 2004 VG. Alex retired into Cape Town. Subsequently, she was abandoned and lost in the Southern Ocean in the 2006 V5O.

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The masts being standardised, there are now (Class rules 2015) only two possible rig types : Wing mast with outriggers or fixed mast with spreaders. So Alex had to go for the spreaders when choosing a fixed mast.

 

 

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. What?

 

 

From IMOCA Class Rules 2015, p39

 

Appendix C: Standardised masts

 

The standardised set, the geometric planes for the masts and the standing rigging indicating the weight and the CG are outlined in and form part of Appendix C:

- Appendix C-1 for the wing mast

- Appendix C-2 for the mast with spreaders

The plans contain the different geometric constraints to be adhered to for setting it up on the boat.

 

The specifications for set-up and use of the standardised set are outlined in and form part of Appendix C:

- Appendix C-3-A for the wing mast

- Appendix C-3-B for the mast with spreaders

 

[...]

 

There are two possible rig types:

- Wing mast with outriggers

- Fixed mast with spreaders

 

https://www.imoca.org/modules/kameleon/getFile.asp?id=687&name=classrulesimoca2015v3.pdf

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+1

 

 

 

 


 

The masts being standardised, there are now (Class rules 2015) only two possible rig types : Wing mast with outriggers or fixed mast with spreaders. So Alex had to go for the spreaders when choosing a fixed mast.

 

 

Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. What?

 

 

From IMOCA Class Rules 2015, p39

 

Appendix C: Standardised masts

 

The standardised set, the geometric planes for the masts and the standing rigging indicating the weight and the CG are outlined in and form part of Appendix C:

- Appendix C-1 for the wing mast
- Appendix C-2 for the mast with spreaders

The plans contain the different geometric constraints to be adhered to for setting it up on the boat.

 

The specifications for set-up and use of the standardised set are outlined in and form part of Appendix C:

- Appendix C-3-A for the wing mast
- Appendix C-3-B for the mast with spreaders

 

[...]

 

There are two possible rig types:
- Wing mast with outriggers
- Fixed mast with spreaders

 

https://www.imoca.org/modules/kameleon/getFile.asp?id=687&name=classrulesimoca2015v3.pdf

 

+1 Loud and clear.

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Is the new HB a foiler? Haven't seen any images with foils installed.

 

Yes, Hugo Boss a foiler. I think they - most of th different racing teams with foiling imocas - are carefully showing very little of the foils for the moment.

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Is the new HB a foiler? Haven't seen any images with foils installed.

Yes, Hugo Boss a foiler. I think they - most of th different racing teams with foiling imocas - are carefully showing very little of the foils for the moment.

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^

:-D ! Yes, great publicity stunt from Gitana Team. The others are playing their cards close to the chest.

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Hugo Boss is a VPLP/ verdier design, same architect then for safran, banque pop, gitana, virbac, the italian imoca.

HB is the only one to have a a cut deck option near the bow and safran a strange empty boom.

But all the six will use foil

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Thanks Scip..some subtle some not so subtle differences, however they all have one thing in common, they all look .....très français

You are welcome.

 

You might be interested in an article from Adonnante, (1 September) about the new imocas by Verdier / VPLP; It puts the boats in three " groups " :

 

http://www.adonnante.com/35299-course-au-large-imoca-vendee-globe-2016-verdier-vplp-signent-une-nouvelle-collection-dimoca/

 

Rough translation about the three groups of imocas :

 

[...] « Safran , Banque Populaire and Ven to di Sardegna (built at CDK Technologies for the two first and Persico for Vento di Sardegna) have the same hull shape characterised by its power capacity in reaching.

For Edmond de Rothschild and StMichel-Virbac, built at Multiplast, m ore than power and maximum speed, a more versatile formula was sought.

 

These five imocas should have the same type of foils and opted for the standerdised wing masts with outriggers.

 

For Hugo Boss, built at Green Marine, the choice of the foils decided by their design team, intentionally dictated the principal options like the shape of the deck in the forward area. Hugo Boss should be the most radical of the six boats. The design team opted for a fixed mast with spreaders. » [...]

 

They say about the new gauge :

 

« This new gauge including monotype elements, drives us to have slightly heavier boats than the older generations, (which is a disadvantage in light weather) but who will less need to use the water ballasts (less payload) for the more sustained winds. »

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BOSS always have the best looking boats by a mile.

I also think very very pretty Scanas but unfortunately the H BOSS hasn't got a great Vendee completion history with 1 out of 3 plus a few other DNF's. So lining up for the 4th with one that is arguably the most different of the new VPLP/Verdier designs is a brave move.

 

However some might say a more conservative/stronger/slower rig than others....maybe lessons from the past and HB/Alex are doing everything to avoid a 1 from 4 scorecard??

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BOSS always have the best looking boats by a mile.

I also think very very pretty Scanas but unfortunately the H BOSS hasn't got a great Vendee completion history with 1 out of 3 plus a few other DNF's. So lining up for the 4th with one that is arguably the most different of the new VPLP/Verdier designs is a brave move.

 

However some might say a more conservative/stronger/slower rig than others....maybe lessons from the past and HB/Alex are doing everything to avoid a 1 from 4 scorecard??

 

 

I still don't understand this mast discussion. In the photos above it is clear HB has a wing mast and outriggers. Why do people keep talking about fixed masts and spreaders? The HB is radical from tip to toe. It is go fast, or go home time. Finishing (3rd) is no longer the goal. It is win or fail.

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BOSS always have the best looking boats by a mile.

I also think very very pretty Scanas but unfortunately the H BOSS hasn't got a great Vendee completion history with 1 out of 3 plus a few other DNF's. So lining up for the 4th with one that is arguably the most different of the new VPLP/Verdier designs is a brave move.

 

However some might say a more conservative/stronger/slower rig than others....maybe lessons from the past and HB/Alex are doing everything to avoid a 1 from 4 scorecard??

I still don't understand this mast discussion. In the photos above it is clear HB has a wing mast and outriggers. Why do people keep talking about fixed masts and spreaders? The HB is radical from tip to toe. It is go fast, or go home time. Finishing (3rd) is no longer the goal. It is win or fail.

Any bets on the outcome?

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Yes. They will win or break.

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Vendee bets now!! ..really have to wait until everyone finished or not next months Transat Jacques Vabre (Le Havre - Itajai) before doing that ....but if not, then looking at Alex/HB if she was a very beautiful women??

 

Past form says, does not fuck (DNF) despite the sexy outfit/lipstick.

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Thanks Rule69. With Fasnet long gone and Transat Jacques Vabre (where they will all be turning up) only a month away, why are all the teams except Gitana still so secretive? With this latest Gitana video there is not much left they haven't revealed about their boat.

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They are saying the new gen foilers could be 4 days quicker than the older boats. Also a lot softer ride which will mean better sleep for the skippers. And yes Hugo Boss needs to finish the next race or I would be doubting his future.

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Thanks Rule69. With Fasnet long gone and Transat Jacques Vabre (where they will all be turning up) only a month away, why are all the teams except Gitana still so secretive? With this latest Gitana video there is not much left they haven't revealed about their boat.

Maybe the other teams are embarrassed to speak because they forgot to sign poets. "Reminiscent of an extraordinary bestiary..." Who could compete with that?

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They are saying the new gen foilers could be 4 days quicker than the older boats. Also a lot softer ride which will mean better sleep for the skippers. And yes Hugo Boss needs to finish the next race or I would be doubting his future.

Alex gives great return for his sponsors so why worry about his future that way?

 

Personally I would worry about his desire to go another round. How many times has he done this now - as a rough guess he has started 7 or 8 round the world races? With a young family does he still have the same enthusiasm? Can he transition to a team manager type position and bring in someone from the artemis fold?

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They are saying the new gen foilers could be 4 days quicker than the older boats. Also a lot softer ride which will mean better sleep for the skippers. And yes Hugo Boss needs to finish the next race or I would be doubting his future.

Say what? Google anything ocean racing and half the results are Hugo Boss and Alex. I'm sure most of the teams would poach Alex in a heartbeat if they had the opportunity.

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There is no question about Alex's PR value to his sponser and the sport at large. Monumental is an understatement. Poach him in a heartbeat?...not sure about that Scanas.

 

The Vendee is (using that horrible term) the Everest of round the world professional races and this is Alex's fourth go with a third and two DNF's to date. By any objective assessment, and for a top tier well funded team, that is not good.

 

It is compounded further by issues he has had in other races such as losing the rig on the first leg of this years Barcelona Round the World and even those races he hasn't been in, but Hugo Boss has. For instance the prior Barcelona Round World due to illness, last years New York to Barcelona race won by Hugo Boss, but sailed by Pepe Ribes and Ryan Breymaier on account Alex stayed home for the birth of his second child.

 

Many put Alex's lack of sucess down to his short-handed pedigree, namely no Mini's and no Figaro's. That is pretty hard to argue against when you look at the honour board of those two long distance amateur/pro races.

 

That aside I and many will be wishing Alex the very best because one thing he hasn't done and that is give up trying. It also helps that he is an Anglo in a predominantly French controlled gig :-)

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Alex completed the last Vendee in third in a previous generation boat.

 

That does not equate with your description of this being his fourth try and 3 DNFs in prior races.

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Alex completed the last Vendee in third in a previous generation boat.

 

That does not equate with your description of this being his fourth try and 3 DNFs in prior races.

Corrected ..thanks

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Clutching at straws JS. When you're lining up for your 7-8th round-the-world-race previous experience in mini's is irrelevant. Stamm had mini & figaro experience & he's had he fair share of .....

 

2000 retired from vendee

2008 ran aground in the vendee

2012 almost ran aground & DSQ in the vendee

2013 broke his boat in half & sunk

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Clutching at straws JS. When you're lining up for your 7-8th round-the-world-race previous experience in mini's is irrelevant. Stamm had mini & figaro experience & he's had he fair share of .....

 

2000 retired from vendee

2008 ran aground in the vendee

2012 almost ran aground & DSQ in the vendee

2013 broke his boat in half & sunk

With respect Scanas the definition of clutching at straws is you picking out one competitor (Stamm) from the thousands who have competed in over 80 combined years of Mini and Figaro racing to argue shorthanded experience gained in those two is irrelevant!! WTF??

 

Also lining up for round the world races doesn't provide the same amount of experience as lining up AND finishing them!!

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How many vendee trophies does Stamm have for all his mini experience?

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BOSS always have the best looking boats by a mile.

I also think very very pretty Scanas but unfortunately the H BOSS hasn't got a great Vendee completion history with 1 out of 3 plus a few other DNF's. So lining up for the 4th with one that is arguably the most different of the new VPLP/Verdier designs is a brave move.

 

However some might say a more conservative/stronger/slower rig than others....maybe lessons from the past and HB/Alex are doing everything to avoid a 1 from 4 scorecard??

 

 

 

 

This was my point also, perhaps his sponsorship value is fist rate despite the failures. What concerns me is that does Alex push the boat too hard at times and is there any correlation between this and the failures he has incurred?

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How many vendee trophies does Stamm have for all his mini experience?

Is it the same number as the number of Vendee winners who don't have Mini and or Figaro experience??

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Are you moving the goal posts? YOU said Alex's previous failures where due to his lack of mini & figaro experience, clearly it has zero relevance. Sure, some winners have come up through the mini / figaro route, just as many of them drop out every year before crossing the equator.

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Are you moving the goal posts? YOU said Alex's previous failures where due to his lack of mini & figaro experience, clearly it has zero relevance. Sure, some winners have come up through the mini / figaro route, just as many of them drop out every year before crossing the equator.

Scanas goal posts have not moved. Not just "some" winners of Vendee have Mini and Figaro experience but as of January 2015 EVERY winner of the Vendee was ranked in the TOP 20 of Solo Mini and Figaro Races.

 

This is the list of Vendee winners. Their Mini/Figaro ranking is in brackets after their name. Also the TOP RANKED solo Mini and Figaro sailor Michel Desjoyeaux is also the ONLY person to have won the Vendee more than once ie twice in 2001 and 2009.

 

1989/90 Titouan Lamazou (18)

1993/93 Alain Gautier (2)

1996/97 Christophe Auguin (6)

2000/01 Michel Desjoyeaux (1)

2004/05 Vincent Riou (14)

2008/09 Michel Desjoyeaux (1)

2012/13 François Gabart (17)

 

Scanas you say Mini and Figaro experience "clearly has zero relevance" to Vendee success??

 

Don't you know beer is not just for breakfast anymore?

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How many vendee trophies does Stamm have for all his mini experience?

Is it the same number as the number of Vendee winners who don't have Mini and or Figaro experience??

 

Vendée winners

 

'89 Lamazou: No Mini, No Figaro

 

'92 Gautier No Mini, Figaro winner

 

'96 Auguin No Mini, Figaro winner

 

'00 Desjoyeaux 1 x Mini, Figaro winner but did the Mini after Figaro

 

'04 Riou No Mini , Figaro stalwart

 

'08 Desjoyeaux 1 x Mini, Figaro winner but did the Mini after Figaro

 

'12 Gabart No Mini, 1 x Figaro (2nd)

 

Of course, if you look further down the Vendée ranking you'll find more former Minists:

Ellen Mc Arthur, Sam Davies, Catherine Chabaud, Anne Liardet, Loick Peyron, Roland Jourdain, Yves Parlier, Marc Thiercelin, Thomas Coville, Seb Josse, , Marc Guillemot, Arnaud Boissières ..........

 

 

But out of over 900 people having once raced a mini-transat less than 20 have graduated at least once to the Vendée.

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The reality is that Alex's last Vendee bucked his rep. He got a bit of a shaft trying to bang the corner with some off the wall boat choices (Juan K) and in the end had to go with a refurbed Farr which was probably a quick boat but not up to snuff compared to the VPLP/Verdiers. Having said that if he hadn't had some silly problems (hydro generators smashing his tillers) he could very well have been up there with the first two. So my point is that his 3rd last time was a great result. So I don't think Alex is a "win or break" sailor anymore. I think he is a proper favorite in any race he's in today.

 

In any case Hugo Boss has pretty much always seemed to be very happy with him And I don't think his sponsors perceive it as a "win or loose sponsorship" proposition.

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