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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

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Jayavarman

Rescue Story in NY Times

30 posts in this topic

Thanks for posting - as someone who has gone overboard at night (not nearly that dramatic) I can appreciate in a small way what this guy did. Amazing.

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Thanks for sharing the story - seems like it's always somethin' innocuous that sends ya off the boat, and it's a good thing to remember.

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check those cooler handles every day!!! good read!

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check those cooler handles every day!!! good read!

 

And get some big, green fishing boots! Or at least wear some other kind of PFD.

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Wow!! fighting back tears.....

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Wow!! fighting back tears.....

Right there with ya Billy.

 

The boot trick is old hat. Dad taught me that one when I was about 12 years old. My first Sperry sea boots. The big black ones that looked like a circus ring leaders boots.

 

Good story with a great ending.

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Thanks for posting - as someone who has gone overboard at night (not nearly that dramatic) I can appreciate in a small way what this guy did. Amazing.

What happened when you went over at night?

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As a long time fisherman who cut his teeth working as a deckie on shark/tuna sport boats out of the east end (montauk and orient), I can identify with this story. But as an offshore sailor who got my USCG license and then STCW and RYA tickets long after those uninformed years, I remember learning all the reasons why we fishermen were fucking morons. This story sums them up nicely, but the author somehow misses the entire point.

 

Great story, but Darwin almost had another one.

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Clean, I don't have your dosier but I agree with your sentiments.

 

Off shore, at night, alone, open transom - no PFD, no tether, WTF?

Author made the point dude is still going to sea but didn't mention any change is personal safety.

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Clean, I don't have your dosier but I agree with your sentiments.

 

Off shore, at night, alone, open transom - no PFD, no tether, WTF?

Author made the point dude is still going to sea but didn't mention any change is personal safety.

 

Well, they did mention that they plucked his boots from the water. Fishermen are superstitious, so those are now his lucky boots.

 

At least we know he has a PFD. Sorta.

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Thanks for posting - as someone who has gone overboard at night (not nearly that dramatic) I can appreciate in a small way what this guy did. Amazing.

What happened when you went over at night?

PM me if you want the details. It had a happy ending, was a life changing event for me.

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Thanks for that. Not the first time Mario and I have agreed on something, nor the first time I will post a link to his work. I excerpted this one on the front page a few years ago, pretty important shit to share with friends/family with new children especially.

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Here's some knowledgeable commentary that expounds on Clean's experiences:

 

http://gcaptain.com/trying-very-hard-to-die/

 

Excellent article! Thanks for posting it. Some people look at me funny, when I don a life jacket in July. But, if you hit your head while going over the side of a pitching one designs deck, while racing round the bouys, you are probably going to inhale salt water before anyone can get to you..

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While I agree with the premise that many commerical fishermen are cowboys and that atitude is endemic in the industry, the work is still incredibly dangerous. I take issue with sanctimonius sailors who think that they are just as brave, but far more intelligent, because they take safety precautions seriously. From my experience with commerical fishing, one could follow all the safety rules, get plenty of sleep, keep their boat in good repair and still end up with a catasthrophe. A one ton scallop dredge swinging ten feet above the deck can make an unexpected swing and slam into a deckhand killing him instantly. A well maintained main engine can fail from an undetected crack in the crank shaft leaving the vessel at the mercy of the elements in the middle of a storm. Yachties choose to go to sea, fishermen have to go to sea to make a living. In the end, one is playing with probabilities and the more you go out the better the chance that something bad will happen.

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While I agree with the premise that many commerical fishermen are cowboys and that atitude is endemic in the industry, the work is still incredibly dangerous. I take issue with sanctimonius sailors who think that they are just as brave, but far more intelligent, because they take safety precautions seriously. From my experience with commerical fishing, one could follow all the safety rules, get plenty of sleep, keep their boat in good repair and still end up with a catasthrophe. A one ton scallop dredge swinging ten feet above the deck can make an unexpected swing and slam into a deckhand killing him instantly. A well maintained main engine can fail from an undetected crack in the crank shaft leaving the vessel at the mercy of the elements in the middle of a storm. Yachties choose to go to sea, fishermen have to go to sea to make a living. In the end, one is playing with probabilities and the more you go out the better the chance that something bad will happen.

 

Of course it can, but that is not the point at all of either Vittone's or my piece on the subject, and he is writing as a former SAR guy and I am writing as a former shark fisherman and now sailor.

 

There are plenty of people who make a living on the sea, and whether they are pro racing sailors, square rig crews, or fisherman, they still 'choose' the life and still need to go to feed themselves and their families. The major difference is that many of the fisherman still haven't accepted the major advances in basic offshore safety knowledge and technology that have occurred over the past 20 years. Probabilities or not, a PLRB or personal GPIRB works pretty much every time you need it as long as the batteries aren't dead. How many 'lost at sea' cases would that one piece of technology take care of?

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This all reminds me of Aaron Ralston. No beacon, phone or emergency instructions while hiking alone and yet he was turned into a hero because he survived by cutting his own arm off.

 

It high time idiots like this are called out for what they are and stop giving the rest of us a bad name.

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While I agree with the premise that many commerical fishermen are cowboys and that atitude is endemic in the industry, the work is still incredibly dangerous. I take issue with sanctimonius sailors who think that they are just as brave, but far more intelligent, because they take safety precautions seriously. From my experience with commerical fishing, one could follow all the safety rules, get plenty of sleep, keep their boat in good repair and still end up with a catasthrophe. A one ton scallop dredge swinging ten feet above the deck can make an unexpected swing and slam into a deckhand killing him instantly. A well maintained main engine can fail from an undetected crack in the crank shaft leaving the vessel at the mercy of the elements in the middle of a storm. Yachties choose to go to sea, fishermen have to go to sea to make a living. In the end, one is playing with probabilities and the more you go out the better the chance that something bad will happen.

 

Of course it can, but that is not the point at all of either Vittone's or my piece on the subject, and he is writing as a former SAR guy and I am writing as a former shark fisherman and now sailor.

 

There are plenty of people who make a living on the sea, and whether they are pro racing sailors, square rig crews, or fisherman, they still 'choose' the life and still need to go to feed themselves and their families. The major difference is that many of the fisherman still haven't accepted the major advances in basic offshore safety knowledge and technology that have occurred over the past 20 years. Probabilities or not, a PLRB or personal GPIRB works pretty much every time you need it as long as the batteries aren't dead. How many 'lost at sea' cases would that one piece of technology take care of?

Hmmm, I wasn't necessarily responding to your post or Mr. Vittone's article, it was a general observation of the posts made in this thread. Interesting that you felt compelled to respond to my post. Did I touch or nerve, are you feeling a tad inadequate?

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I don't know anything about commercial fishing. Clearly there are some not crazy expensive or impractical things they could be doing to increase safety, at least if we use this extreme case as an example. But I also know from experience that often all the ideal safety rules and procedures just aren't realistic in a real business with tight margins. I could see using safety lines as an example of something that is just not realistic when you're out there working for a living and not out there for recreation. But yeah, it does seems these guys were being pretty fucking careless.

Czo

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I don't know anything about commercial fishing. Clearly there are some not crazy expensive or impractical things they could be doing to increase safety, at least if we use this extreme case as an example. But I also know from experience that often all the ideal safety rules and procedures just aren't realistic in a real business with tight margins. I could see using safety lines as an example of something that is just not realistic when you're out there working for a living and not out there for recreation. But yeah, it does seems these guys were being pretty fucking careless.

Czo

Work alone on deck, buy a PLRB for 300$ and wear an inflatable PFD. Seems pretty simple, but makes the story far less interesting.

 

Interesting that you felt compelled to respond to my post. Did I touch or nerve, are you feeling a tad inadequate?

Neither. It's my job to respond. And fun too!

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PLB definitely makes sense. Inflatable PFD I would think does too. I bet some people in the industry would say the same kind of arguments about the pfd that you hear against seatbelts, citing some low risk scenario where the pfd will kill you compared to the greater risk of falling overboard. But I should shut up now, cause I don't really know anything about commercial fishing.

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PLB definitely makes sense. Inflatable PFD I would think does too. I bet some people in the industry would say the same kind of arguments about the pfd that you hear against seatbelts, citing some low risk scenario where the pfd will kill you compared to the greater risk of falling overboard. But I should shut up now, cause I don't really know anything about commercial fishing.

A long time ago I heard that lobstermen in Maine purposely didn't learn to swim, since if they end up in the water, they will most likely drown or die from exposure, and dieing from exposure is much more painful. Not sure if I think it makes sense. I would think nowadays a guy could wear a Mustang Survival Suit and carry a PLB, and survive almost any water until they get picked up.

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I've made a couple of pro-PFD posts in this thread, and feel I should add that I hate the things.

 

I seldom wear them. I always say a curse or two for the safety Nazis who insist I must have them aboard my small boats when headed out into warm, shallow, protected and populated waters in daylight. There is literally no chance that they will ever save me. In the very unlikely event that I found myself swimming for home instead of wading or simply waiting aboard an unsinkable boat, I would swim a lot faster without a PFD and would go that way. Fuckin' safety Nazis refuse to use common sense.

 

There, I feel better now.

 

That said, there are times when even I wear them. Night is one of those times. On deck is another. On autopilot is another. Crew asleep is another.

 

I'm glad this fisherman didn't win his Darwin award, but his application was in perfect order.

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That's the second time I heard of rubber-boots-turned waterwings saving a MOB at night. The first was my first sailing coach who was alone on deck at night at the helm during a delivery. He went over during a bad broach which fortunately woke up the crew.

 

Along with the safety tips, the first thing that came to my mind while reading this was how a simple turning block would have enabled him to pull away rather than toward an open transom.

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