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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

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Jayavarman

Rescue Story in NY Times

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check those cooler handles every day!!! good read!

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Wow!! fighting back tears.....

Right there with ya Billy.

 

The boot trick is old hat. Dad taught me that one when I was about 12 years old. My first Sperry sea boots. The big black ones that looked like a circus ring leaders boots.

 

Good story with a great ending.

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Thanks for posting - as someone who has gone overboard at night (not nearly that dramatic) I can appreciate in a small way what this guy did. Amazing.

What happened when you went over at night?

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As a long time fisherman who cut his teeth working as a deckie on shark/tuna sport boats out of the east end (montauk and orient), I can identify with this story. But as an offshore sailor who got my USCG license and then STCW and RYA tickets long after those uninformed years, I remember learning all the reasons why we fishermen were fucking morons. This story sums them up nicely, but the author somehow misses the entire point.

 

Great story, but Darwin almost had another one.

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Clean, I don't have your dosier but I agree with your sentiments.

 

Off shore, at night, alone, open transom - no PFD, no tether, WTF?

Author made the point dude is still going to sea but didn't mention any change is personal safety.

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Clean, I don't have your dosier but I agree with your sentiments.

 

Off shore, at night, alone, open transom - no PFD, no tether, WTF?

Author made the point dude is still going to sea but didn't mention any change is personal safety.

 

Well, they did mention that they plucked his boots from the water. Fishermen are superstitious, so those are now his lucky boots.

 

At least we know he has a PFD. Sorta.

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Thanks for posting - as someone who has gone overboard at night (not nearly that dramatic) I can appreciate in a small way what this guy did. Amazing.

What happened when you went over at night?

PM me if you want the details. It had a happy ending, was a life changing event for me.

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Thanks for that. Not the first time Mario and I have agreed on something, nor the first time I will post a link to his work. I excerpted this one on the front page a few years ago, pretty important shit to share with friends/family with new children especially.

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Here's some knowledgeable commentary that expounds on Clean's experiences:

 

http://gcaptain.com/trying-very-hard-to-die/

 

Excellent article! Thanks for posting it. Some people look at me funny, when I don a life jacket in July. But, if you hit your head while going over the side of a pitching one designs deck, while racing round the bouys, you are probably going to inhale salt water before anyone can get to you..

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While I agree with the premise that many commerical fishermen are cowboys and that atitude is endemic in the industry, the work is still incredibly dangerous. I take issue with sanctimonius sailors who think that they are just as brave, but far more intelligent, because they take safety precautions seriously. From my experience with commerical fishing, one could follow all the safety rules, get plenty of sleep, keep their boat in good repair and still end up with a catasthrophe. A one ton scallop dredge swinging ten feet above the deck can make an unexpected swing and slam into a deckhand killing him instantly. A well maintained main engine can fail from an undetected crack in the crank shaft leaving the vessel at the mercy of the elements in the middle of a storm. Yachties choose to go to sea, fishermen have to go to sea to make a living. In the end, one is playing with probabilities and the more you go out the better the chance that something bad will happen.

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While I agree with the premise that many commerical fishermen are cowboys and that atitude is endemic in the industry, the work is still incredibly dangerous. I take issue with sanctimonius sailors who think that they are just as brave, but far more intelligent, because they take safety precautions seriously. From my experience with commerical fishing, one could follow all the safety rules, get plenty of sleep, keep their boat in good repair and still end up with a catasthrophe. A one ton scallop dredge swinging ten feet above the deck can make an unexpected swing and slam into a deckhand killing him instantly. A well maintained main engine can fail from an undetected crack in the crank shaft leaving the vessel at the mercy of the elements in the middle of a storm. Yachties choose to go to sea, fishermen have to go to sea to make a living. In the end, one is playing with probabilities and the more you go out the better the chance that something bad will happen.

 

Of course it can, but that is not the point at all of either Vittone's or my piece on the subject, and he is writing as a former SAR guy and I am writing as a former shark fisherman and now sailor.

 

There are plenty of people who make a living on the sea, and whether they are pro racing sailors, square rig crews, or fisherman, they still 'choose' the life and still need to go to feed themselves and their families. The major difference is that many of the fisherman still haven't accepted the major advances in basic offshore safety knowledge and technology that have occurred over the past 20 years. Probabilities or not, a PLRB or personal GPIRB works pretty much every time you need it as long as the batteries aren't dead. How many 'lost at sea' cases would that one piece of technology take care of?

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This all reminds me of Aaron Ralston. No beacon, phone or emergency instructions while hiking alone and yet he was turned into a hero because he survived by cutting his own arm off.

 

It high time idiots like this are called out for what they are and stop giving the rest of us a bad name.

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While I agree with the premise that many commerical fishermen are cowboys and that atitude is endemic in the industry, the work is still incredibly dangerous. I take issue with sanctimonius sailors who think that they are just as brave, but far more intelligent, because they take safety precautions seriously. From my experience with commerical fishing, one could follow all the safety rules, get plenty of sleep, keep their boat in good repair and still end up with a catasthrophe. A one ton scallop dredge swinging ten feet above the deck can make an unexpected swing and slam into a deckhand killing him instantly. A well maintained main engine can fail from an undetected crack in the crank shaft leaving the vessel at the mercy of the elements in the middle of a storm. Yachties choose to go to sea, fishermen have to go to sea to make a living. In the end, one is playing with probabilities and the more you go out the better the chance that something bad will happen.

 

Of course it can, but that is not the point at all of either Vittone's or my piece on the subject, and he is writing as a former SAR guy and I am writing as a former shark fisherman and now sailor.

 

There are plenty of people who make a living on the sea, and whether they are pro racing sailors, square rig crews, or fisherman, they still 'choose' the life and still need to go to feed themselves and their families. The major difference is that many of the fisherman still haven't accepted the major advances in basic offshore safety knowledge and technology that have occurred over the past 20 years. Probabilities or not, a PLRB or personal GPIRB works pretty much every time you need it as long as the batteries aren't dead. How many 'lost at sea' cases would that one piece of technology take care of?

Hmmm, I wasn't necessarily responding to your post or Mr. Vittone's article, it was a general observation of the posts made in this thread. Interesting that you felt compelled to respond to my post. Did I touch or nerve, are you feeling a tad inadequate?

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I don't know anything about commercial fishing. Clearly there are some not crazy expensive or impractical things they could be doing to increase safety, at least if we use this extreme case as an example. But I also know from experience that often all the ideal safety rules and procedures just aren't realistic in a real business with tight margins. I could see using safety lines as an example of something that is just not realistic when you're out there working for a living and not out there for recreation. But yeah, it does seems these guys were being pretty fucking careless.

Czo

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I don't know anything about commercial fishing. Clearly there are some not crazy expensive or impractical things they could be doing to increase safety, at least if we use this extreme case as an example. But I also know from experience that often all the ideal safety rules and procedures just aren't realistic in a real business with tight margins. I could see using safety lines as an example of something that is just not realistic when you're out there working for a living and not out there for recreation. But yeah, it does seems these guys were being pretty fucking careless.

Czo

Work alone on deck, buy a PLRB for 300$ and wear an inflatable PFD. Seems pretty simple, but makes the story far less interesting.

 

Interesting that you felt compelled to respond to my post. Did I touch or nerve, are you feeling a tad inadequate?

Neither. It's my job to respond. And fun too!

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PLB definitely makes sense. Inflatable PFD I would think does too. I bet some people in the industry would say the same kind of arguments about the pfd that you hear against seatbelts, citing some low risk scenario where the pfd will kill you compared to the greater risk of falling overboard. But I should shut up now, cause I don't really know anything about commercial fishing.

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PLB definitely makes sense. Inflatable PFD I would think does too. I bet some people in the industry would say the same kind of arguments about the pfd that you hear against seatbelts, citing some low risk scenario where the pfd will kill you compared to the greater risk of falling overboard. But I should shut up now, cause I don't really know anything about commercial fishing.

A long time ago I heard that lobstermen in Maine purposely didn't learn to swim, since if they end up in the water, they will most likely drown or die from exposure, and dieing from exposure is much more painful. Not sure if I think it makes sense. I would think nowadays a guy could wear a Mustang Survival Suit and carry a PLB, and survive almost any water until they get picked up.

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I've made a couple of pro-PFD posts in this thread, and feel I should add that I hate the things.

 

I seldom wear them. I always say a curse or two for the safety Nazis who insist I must have them aboard my small boats when headed out into warm, shallow, protected and populated waters in daylight. There is literally no chance that they will ever save me. In the very unlikely event that I found myself swimming for home instead of wading or simply waiting aboard an unsinkable boat, I would swim a lot faster without a PFD and would go that way. Fuckin' safety Nazis refuse to use common sense.

 

There, I feel better now.

 

That said, there are times when even I wear them. Night is one of those times. On deck is another. On autopilot is another. Crew asleep is another.

 

I'm glad this fisherman didn't win his Darwin award, but his application was in perfect order.

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That's the second time I heard of rubber-boots-turned waterwings saving a MOB at night. The first was my first sailing coach who was alone on deck at night at the helm during a delivery. He went over during a bad broach which fortunately woke up the crew.

 

Along with the safety tips, the first thing that came to my mind while reading this was how a simple turning block would have enabled him to pull away rather than toward an open transom.

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