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      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

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Americas Cup

ETNZ announcement

173 posts in this topic

 

 

Funny how Dalton predicts the cost of the next campaign without knowing what and where they are sailing.

 

This is a classic example of his stupidity.

Actually that's a classic example of your stupidity. Winning the AC will always be about "How much should we spend.", if the sailed it in Moths someone would spend $100m to win it. Heck if they sailed it in Hobies they'd spend that much.

 

 

Bullshit.... if that was the case then why is larry limiting OR to $80million.

 

money does not produce boat speed or tactical genius just as it does not produce winners. many have spent more and failed and mst of the recent winners spent less...

 

Blake, bond, conner... all spent less to win but spent more time on the important stuff like sailing versus Pie warmers, like good skippers v public image.

 

eg...

 

Conner - riblets? fastheavy weather design, Sobstad sails...

 

Bond - wing keel

 

Blake - Coutts/great design

 

Bertrelli - coutts/ design.

 

I think you are shallow and stupid to think money buys winning ideas. Ben lexcen and Laurie Davidson would disagree

 

Spending 100million on a hobie does not mean you will win but will gaurentee stupidity if you don,t. and ... if you spent that much you would soon lose focus on what was important!

 

Money just buys problems in many cases.

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While it is never good to let facts get in the way of a good sledging, let's look at one of the critical areas where JS and DB could be compared, where they were in total control, namely the starts. There were 19 races, plus 3 more starts where the races were later abandoned, making 22 competitive starts in total. If we take getting to the first mark in the lead as the best indicator of the start (which is all I would argue is important), DB and JS actually shared the honours, 11 starts each. If you look at the 19 races, JS just edged it with 10 vs 9 by DB. Even if you look at things from when it was 8-1, there were actually 10 starts (one race didn't finish) and each won 5 of them. I think that was pretty impressive from DB, seeing that by then OR turned and accelerated better.

 

Comparing the 2 guys in something other than the AC, I have had the pleasure of racing against both in A Class cats. Yes, I know its not the AC, but there were some of the best cat sailors in the world racing. The time DB showed up, he had not sailed A's (I don't think he had sailed cats either) until a month before the event. He also said he hadn't trapezed for as long as he could remember, yet for somebody with such little experience, he won more than half the starts and led at the top mark more than half the races, a feat I haven't even seen Glenn Ashby manage either then or since. Sure, he wasn't as good downhill (he was also on the heavy side) which meant he finished 5th overall, but everybody who saw it was seriously impressed. With all due respects to JS, it was a far better performance than I have seen from him, even though JS had far more A and other cat experience. Today, if I had to bet on one vs the other in A's, my money would be in DB.

 

Then you add to that the performances of DB in classes like the TP52 (which he dominated), or even the AC45's when ETNZ were taking them seriously. Until ETNZ changed their focus and only arrived at the ACWS events at the last minute and stopped AC45 training, they DB dominated JS.

 

To be honest, I would be delighted to have either on my team and would find it very hard to choose between them. Ultimately, they are only as good as the team around them but all this smack down talk about DB shows a total lack of understanding of our sport and just how good he is.

 

I guess I should have known better than to feed the troll, but I felt it needed to be said.

What poor examples. No mention of his Finn sailing record.

As for dominating the TP52. Well he had the fastest boat and the only one of its design.

As for the A class. Well where did he end up?...

Can't you read you deranged Kiwi cocksucker? He came 5th, which is way better than you ever did in your flying fifteen, shit for brains.

Why don't you take time to read the posts you are responding to. You are so intent on spewing your bullshit that you prematurely ejaculate every time. Then again why don't you do the world a favour and step in front of a train.

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what a complete and inane Muppet Dalton is!

 

some one needs to remind hi that he took a complete dorking and was leader of a team who has now provided the world a new level of CHOKING in a major event.

 

he also arrived in NZ, post the AC, and wanted to quit! (and telling Kiwis "THE SAME PEOPLE WILL ONLY GET THE SAME RESULT0 and now has the Gaul/ignorance to spout off and make out he is a winner.

 

PATHETIC.

 

The gravy train came home humble and sad to get sympathy from the gullible kiwis, got the "feel good"" factor and "approval from a minority and government to go again and wham.... Dalton is back to his arrogant and stupid mind games (which only fucks him and his team UP).

 

While this guy is in charge ETNZ will ALWAYS fail.

 

Dalton cannot change.... despite all the spin he spouts of about changing.

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. Money just buys problems in many cases.

Well you won't have any problems then being unemployed and all.

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. Money just buys problems in many cases.

Well you won't have any problems then being unemployed and all.

How about you two get a room.

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why you care so much

?

 

 

what a complete and inane Muppet Dalton is!

some one needs to remind hi that he took a complete dorking and was leader of a team who has now provided the world a new level of CHOKING in a major event.

he also arrived in NZ, post the AC, and wanted to quit! (and telling Kiwis "THE SAME PEOPLE WILL ONLY GET THE SAME RESULT0 and now has the Gaul/ignorance to spout off and make out he is a winner.

PATHETIC.

The gravy train came home humble and sad to get sympathy from the gullible kiwis, got the "feel good"" factor and "approval from a minority and government to go again and wham.... Dalton is back to his arrogant and stupid mind games (which only fucks him and his team UP).

While this guy is in charge ETNZ will ALWAYS fail.

Dalton cannot change.... despite all the spin he spouts of about changing.

 

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Funny how Dalton predicts the cost of the next campaign without knowing what and where they are sailing.

 

This is a classic example of his stupidity.

Actually that's a classic example of your stupidity. Winning the AC will always be about "How much should we spend.", if the sailed it in Moths someone would spend $100m to win it. Heck if they sailed it in Hobies they'd spend that much.

 

Bullshit.... if that was the case then why is larry limiting OR to $80million.

 

money does not produce boat speed or tactical genius just as it does not produce winners. many have spent more and failed and mst of the recent winners spent less...

 

Blake, bond, conner... all spent less to win but spent more time on the important stuff like sailing versus Pie warmers, like good skippers v public image.

 

eg...

 

Conner - riblets? fastheavy weather design, Sobstad sails...

 

Bond - wing keel

 

Blake - Coutts/great design

 

Bertrelli - coutts/ design.

 

I think you are shallow and stupid to think money buys winning ideas. Ben lexcen and Laurie Davidson would disagree

 

Spending 100million on a hobie does not mean you will win but will gaurentee stupidity if you don,t. and ... if you spent that much you would soon lose focus on what was important!

 

Money just buys problems in many cases.

 

That's one of the most stupid reply I have heard in a very long time. Why do you think that OR will limit there budget to 80 millions and what do you think that they can do if some one wants to spend more?

 

If ETNZ has 100 millions from sponsors. Do you think that they will call the sponsors and say, sorry boys. We don't want to spend your money as Larry only spend 80 millions. Sorry but we will remove your logo from the boat and return your money. OR might not want to spend more money but how could he stop some one to spend more? It is just as stupid statement as when your wanking hero MR Coutts explained for the world how much money ETNZ has spent in the last AC. OR have no idea how much ETNZ spent. They can only guess. They have no access to the details in ETNZ:s budget but I guess that if it is coming from Coutts mouth it has to be right just like every thing that Larry and Spithill says is correct and every thing that Barker and Dalton sais is wrong.

 

Grow up.

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why you care so much

?

 

 

what a complete and inane Muppet Dalton is!

 

some one needs to remind hi that he took a complete dorking and was leader of a team who has now provided the world a new level of CHOKING in a major event.

 

he also arrived in NZ, post the AC, and wanted to quit! (and telling Kiwis "THE SAME PEOPLE WILL ONLY GET THE SAME RESULT0 and now has the Gaul/ignorance to spout off and make out he is a winner.

 

PATHETIC.

 

The gravy train came home humble and sad to get sympathy from the gullible kiwis, got the "feel good"" factor and "approval from a minority and government to go again and wham.... Dalton is back to his arrogant and stupid mind games (which only fucks him and his team UP).

 

While this guy is in charge ETNZ will ALWAYS fail.

 

Dalton cannot change.... despite all the spin he spouts of about changing.

He's just old, bitter and twisted and facing a life of being lonely.

 

Worse part of it is, this isn't his real persona. Just a made up sock puppet pretending to be from another country, sad really, he needs some help.

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Funny how Dalton predicts the cost of the next campaign without knowing what and where they are sailing.

 

This is a classic example of his stupidity.

Actually that's a classic example of your stupidity. Winning the AC will always be about "How much should we spend.", if the sailed it in Moths someone would spend $100m to win it. Heck if they sailed it in Hobies they'd spend that much.

 

 

Bullshit.... if that was the case then why is larry limiting OR to $80million.

 

money does not produce boat speed or tactical genius just as it does not produce winners. many have spent more and failed and mst of the recent winners spent less...

 

Blake, bond, conner... all spent less to win but spent more time on the important stuff like sailing versus Pie warmers, like good skippers v public image.

 

eg...

 

Conner - riblets? fastheavy weather design, Sobstad sails...

 

Bond - wing keel

 

Blake - Coutts/great design

 

Bertrelli - coutts/ design.

 

I think you are shallow and stupid to think money buys winning ideas. Ben lexcen and Laurie Davidson would disagree

 

Spending 100million on a hobie does not mean you will win but will gaurentee stupidity if you don,t. and ... if you spent that much you would soon lose focus on what was important!

 

Money just buys problems in many cases.

 

 

That's one of the most stupid reply I have heard in a very long time. Why do you think that OR will limit there budget to 80 millions and what do you think that they can do if some one wants to spend more?

 

If ETNZ has 100 millions from sponsors. Do you think that they will call the sponsors and say, sorry boys. We don't want to spend your money as Larry only spend 80 millions. Sorry but we will remove your logo from the boat and return your money. OR might not want to spend more money but how could he stop some one to spend more? It is just as stupid statement as when your wanking hero MR Coutts explained for the world how much money ETNZ has spent in the last AC. OR have no idea how much ETNZ spent. They can only guess. They have no access to the details in ETNZ:s budget but I guess that if it is coming from Coutts mouth it has to be right just like every thing that Larry and Spithill says is correct and every thing that Barker and Dalton sais is wrong.

 

Grow up.

 

 

Vij you are dumb.

 

ETNZ will limit to 80million to be seen as the poor relative and to say they did not spend more than larry.... to lose again.

 

also Larry may cap the amount.

 

OR have a very good idea of what They spent and also what ETNZ spent. Dalton has already told us what they spent.

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Funny how Dalton predicts the cost of the next campaign without knowing what and where they are sailing.

 

This is a classic example of his stupidity.

Actually that's a classic example of your stupidity. Winning the AC will always be about "How much should we spend.", if the sailed it in Moths someone would spend $100m to win it. Heck if they sailed it in Hobies they'd spend that much.

 

Bullshit.... if that was the case then why is larry limiting OR to $80million.

 

money does not produce boat speed or tactical genius just as it does not produce winners. many have spent more and failed and mst of the recent winners spent less...

 

Blake, bond, conner... all spent less to win but spent more time on the important stuff like sailing versus Pie warmers, like good skippers v public image.

 

eg...

 

Conner - riblets? fastheavy weather design, Sobstad sails...

 

Bond - wing keel

 

Blake - Coutts/great design

 

Bertrelli - coutts/ design.

 

I think you are shallow and stupid to think money buys winning ideas. Ben lexcen and Laurie Davidson would disagree

 

Spending 100million on a hobie does not mean you will win but will gaurentee stupidity if you don,t. and ... if you spent that much you would soon lose focus on what was important!

 

Money just buys problems in many cases.

 

That's one of the most stupid reply I have heard in a very long time. Why do you think that OR will limit there budget to 80 millions and what do you think that they can do if some one wants to spend more?

 

If ETNZ has 100 millions from sponsors. Do you think that they will call the sponsors and say, sorry boys. We don't want to spend your money as Larry only spend 80 millions. Sorry but we will remove your logo from the boat and return your money. OR might not want to spend more money but how could he stop some one to spend more? It is just as stupid statement as when your wanking hero MR Coutts explained for the world how much money ETNZ has spent in the last AC. OR have no idea how much ETNZ spent. They can only guess. They have no access to the details in ETNZ:s budget but I guess that if it is coming from Coutts mouth it has to be right just like every thing that Larry and Spithill says is correct and every thing that Barker and Dalton sais is wrong.

 

Grow up.

 

Vij you are dumb.

 

ETNZ will limit to 80million to be seen as the poor relative and to say they did not spend more than larry.... to lose again.

 

also Larry may cap the amount.

 

OR have a very good idea of what They spent and also what ETNZ spent. Dalton has already told us what they spent.

 

Quote from http://www.sail-world.com/Europe/Americas-Cup:-Challenger-discussions-no-push-over-this-time/118384

 

"Even so, Dalton says that he expects to still spend about the same amount on the next campaign as in the last.

 

'Russell is saying US $80 million to play – well that means $80 million to compete – doesn’t mean to win,’ he says with a slightly cynical grin. 'So you can take that $80 million as a minimum number to play the game.'

 

'We will spend more than that', he adds. 'I can't see our numbers coming down, at all, because will just open out in places where we were so restricted in budget. I think we will spend a similar amount to last time.' "

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Funny how Dalton predicts the cost of the next campaign without knowing what and where they are sailing.

 

This is a classic example of his stupidity.

Actually that's a classic example of your stupidity. Winning the AC will always be about "How much should we spend.", if the sailed it in Moths someone would spend $100m to win it. Heck if they sailed it in Hobies they'd spend that much.

 

Bullshit.... if that was the case then why is larry limiting OR to $80million.

 

money does not produce boat speed or tactical genius just as it does not produce winners. many have spent more and failed and mst of the recent winners spent less...

 

Blake, bond, conner... all spent less to win but spent more time on the important stuff like sailing versus Pie warmers, like good skippers v public image.

 

eg...

 

Conner - riblets? fastheavy weather design, Sobstad sails...

 

Bond - wing keel

 

Blake - Coutts/great design

 

Bertrelli - coutts/ design.

 

I think you are shallow and stupid to think money buys winning ideas. Ben lexcen and Laurie Davidson would disagree

 

Spending 100million on a hobie does not mean you will win but will gaurentee stupidity if you don,t. and ... if you spent that much you would soon lose focus on what was important!

 

Money just buys problems in many cases.

Should have said, "Trying to win the AC" then. Spending is no guarantee of winning, I'm just saying that some people will spend it no matter how "cheap" you try and make it. Why am I feeding the troll though? It's going to be a long 4 years.

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An oped in the NZ Herald (one that I happen to strongly disagree with until somebody somehow proves even better)

 

 

Chris Rattue: Barker needs to go if we want to win Cup

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11187149

Chris Rattle sounds just like our "Americas Cup"?

Maybe he does have a job?

buigger you caught me..... not!

 

Kiwis are opening there eyes to the bullshit and spin that comes from Dean CRY BABY/CHOKER Barker and GRUNT Dalton.

 

they are all silk scarfs and no pants.

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Kiwis are opening there eyes to the bullshit and spin that comes from Dean CRY BABY/CHOKER Barker and GRUNT Dalton.

 

they are all silk scarfs and no pants.

What are you 12 years old or something, two dicks?

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It's interesting that Chris Rattue makes the same mistake as our own wonderfully informed troll, AC. At least Chris admits he doesn't sail, so has an excuse.

 

There seems to be some who think that the skippers (DB and JS) have a lot more influence during races than they actually do have. The only time that they have a say is at the start, or when something totally unexpected happens, such as when ETNZ nearly capsized. All the rest of the time, their job is to sail as fast as they can in a straight line. You only have to look (hear) how Ainslie took control of the boat when he stepped on board. My favourite moment was when he told JS to shut up and get on with sailing the boat. That is because that was JS's role during the races, pure and simple. So when ETNZ tried to lee bow OR, that was a decision by others and DB couldn't and shouldn't have done anything different. The second the helm goes against his "brains trust" is the time people need to get off the boat, because as a team you know you have to live with team decisions and once the trust is broken, there is no going back. This is why JS did the really stupid down speed tack at the leeward mark that JK called for.

 

Of the water, the "skippers' do have some extra voice, compared with the rest of the crew, but in the case of DB, he didn't have the power to make changes in the same way that JS had. That is because JS was director of sailing, while DB wasn't. It meant that JS and RC worked together on the big calls, while DB had little or no say in them. This has become even more clear because of the announcement that DB would play a bigger role in future.

 

If anybody is to blame for ETNZ getting so close to winning but not, it must be GD. He was the decision maker. It was his job to decide who was on the boat and what the design/shore teams did. But even I struggle to be too harsh on Dalts, and anybody who as been on here for more than 5 minutes knows I have very little respect for most of what he does. It is abundantly clear to everybody 9except a few idiots on here) that OR had the superior boat, yet ETNZ (Dalts) managed to get their inferior machine to the point that they nearly won the Cup. Most people involved with the Cup I have spoken to believe ETNZ got just about everything they could out of their boat, while OR was still not optimised even at the end of the racing. For ETNZ to have improved further, they would have needed new foils and new aero packages, which would have taken weeks, if not months, to make.

 

But the facts and reality don't need to be considered when all you are doing is trolling. Only a total troll would continue using words like "choke" and "cry baby" rather than enter into proper debate.

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While it is never good to let facts get in the way of a good sledging, let's look at one of the critical areas where JS and DB could be compared, where they were in total control, namely the starts. There were 19 races, plus 3 more starts where the races were later abandoned, making 22 competitive starts in total. If we take getting to the first mark in the lead as the best indicator of the start (which is all I would argue is important), DB and JS actually shared the honours, 11 starts each. If you look at the 19 races, JS just edged it with 10 vs 9 by DB. Even if you look at things from when it was 8-1, there were actually 10 starts (one race didn't finish) and each won 5 of them. I think that was pretty impressive from DB, seeing that by then OR turned and accelerated better.

 

Comparing the 2 guys in something other than the AC, I have had the pleasure of racing against both in A Class cats. Yes, I know its not the AC, but there were some of the best cat sailors in the world racing. The time DB showed up, he had not sailed A's (I don't think he had sailed cats either) until a month before the event. He also said he hadn't trapezed for as long as he could remember, yet for somebody with such little experience, he won more than half the starts and led at the top mark more than half the races, a feat I haven't even seen Glenn Ashby manage either then or since. Sure, he wasn't as good downhill (he was also on the heavy side) which meant he finished 5th overall, but everybody who saw it was seriously impressed. With all due respects to JS, it was a far better performance than I have seen from him, even though JS had far more A and other cat experience. Today, if I had to bet on one vs the other in A's, my money would be in DB.

 

Then you add to that the performances of DB in classes like the TP52 (which he dominated), or even the AC45's when ETNZ were taking them seriously. Until ETNZ changed their focus and only arrived at the ACWS events at the last minute and stopped AC45 training, they DB dominated JS.

 

To be honest, I would be delighted to have either on my team and would find it very hard to choose between them. Ultimately, they are only as good as the team around them but all this smack down talk about DB shows a total lack of understanding of our sport and just how good he is.

 

I guess I should have known better than to feed the troll, but I felt it needed to be said.

What poor examples. No mention of his Finn sailing record.

 

As for dominating the TP52. Well he had the fastest boat and the only one of its design.

 

As for the A class. Well where did he end up?... winning starts and leading at the top mark is achievable by many average sailor. Crossing the finishing line first and winningnoverall is the domain of true great sailors. And... he got dorked in every race... at the finish line... and in a class that is so tightly ruled that it is almost one design.

 

Sorry. He is not up to it as are you poor excuses for his ability. A couple of my mates sailed against him in TP52s. Most of his wins were from superior boat speed and his tacticians skill to jag wind shifts.

 

Exactly how many "average sailors" can CONSISTENTLY win starts and lead in big A Class regattas? I've spent some time lining up against Gashby and Stalky on the line and would say that not a single "average" sailor in the world could ever consistently win starts from them and lead them to the top mark.

 

I've got no personal experience to judge Barker on and I tend to agree that the current ETNZ leaders have had their chance to win. But to say that average sailors can consistently lead brilliant sailors like the top A sailors is just stupid.

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While it is never good to let facts get in the way of a good sledging, let's look at one of the critical areas where JS and DB could be compared, where they were in total control, namely the starts. There were 19 races, plus 3 more starts where the races were later abandoned, making 22 competitive starts in total. If we take getting to the first mark in the lead as the best indicator of the start (which is all I would argue is important), DB and JS actually shared the honours, 11 starts each. If you look at the 19 races, JS just edged it with 10 vs 9 by DB. Even if you look at things from when it was 8-1, there were actually 10 starts (one race didn't finish) and each won 5 of them. I think that was pretty impressive from DB, seeing that by then OR turned and accelerated better.

 

Comparing the 2 guys in something other than the AC, I have had the pleasure of racing against both in A Class cats. Yes, I know its not the AC, but there were some of the best cat sailors in the world racing. The time DB showed up, he had not sailed A's (I don't think he had sailed cats either) until a month before the event. He also said he hadn't trapezed for as long as he could remember, yet for somebody with such little experience, he won more than half the starts and led at the top mark more than half the races, a feat I haven't even seen Glenn Ashby manage either then or since. Sure, he wasn't as good downhill (he was also on the heavy side) which meant he finished 5th overall, but everybody who saw it was seriously impressed. With all due respects to JS, it was a far better performance than I have seen from him, even though JS had far more A and other cat experience. Today, if I had to bet on one vs the other in A's, my money would be in DB.

 

Then you add to that the performances of DB in classes like the TP52 (which he dominated), or even the AC45's when ETNZ were taking them seriously. Until ETNZ changed their focus and only arrived at the ACWS events at the last minute and stopped AC45 training, they DB dominated JS.

 

To be honest, I would be delighted to have either on my team and would find it very hard to choose between them. Ultimately, they are only as good as the team around them but all this smack down talk about DB shows a total lack of understanding of our sport and just how good he is.

 

I guess I should have known better than to feed the troll, but I felt it needed to be said.

What poor examples. No mention of his Finn sailing record.

 

As for dominating the TP52. Well he had the fastest boat and the only one of its design.

 

As for the A class. Well where did he end up?... winning starts and leading at the top mark is achievable by many average sailor. Crossing the finishing line first and winningnoverall is the domain of true great sailors. And... he got dorked in every race... at the finish line... and in a class that is so tightly ruled that it is almost one design.

 

Sorry. He is not up to it as are you poor excuses for his ability. A couple of my mates sailed against him in TP52s. Most of his wins were from superior boat speed and his tacticians skill to jag wind shifts.

 

 

Exactly how many "average sailors" can CONSISTENTLY win starts and lead in big A Class regattas? I've spent some time lining up against Gashby and Stalky on the line and would say that not a single "average" sailor in the world could ever consistently win starts from them and lead them to the top mark.

 

I've got no personal experience to judge Barker on and I tend to agree that the current ETNZ leaders have had their chance to win. But to say that average sailors can consistently lead brilliant sailors like the top A sailors is just stupid.

 

 

what rubbish.

 

Many sailors win starts and get to the top mark first and never win a race.

just one persistant (FOR THE LEG) shift on the first beat can put the back markers in the lead.

 

As for SimonN telling us that barker did not have the same power to change things as jimmy... what crap.

 

Barker had the same power and never once hardened up and made a tough decision. everybody else had to carry him.

 

JS had no more power but he took it on himself to lead the change by tough talking and backing it up.

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While it is never good to let facts get in the way of a good sledging, let's look at one of the critical areas where JS and DB could be compared, where they were in total control, namely the starts. There were 19 races, plus 3 more starts where the races were later abandoned, making 22 competitive starts in total. If we take getting to the first mark in the lead as the best indicator of the start (which is all I would argue is important), DB and JS actually shared the honours, 11 starts each. If you look at the 19 races, JS just edged it with 10 vs 9 by DB. Even if you look at things from when it was 8-1, there were actually 10 starts (one race didn't finish) and each won 5 of them. I think that was pretty impressive from DB, seeing that by then OR turned and accelerated better.

 

Comparing the 2 guys in something other than the AC, I have had the pleasure of racing against both in A Class cats. Yes, I know its not the AC, but there were some of the best cat sailors in the world racing. The time DB showed up, he had not sailed A's (I don't think he had sailed cats either) until a month before the event. He also said he hadn't trapezed for as long as he could remember, yet for somebody with such little experience, he won more than half the starts and led at the top mark more than half the races, a feat I haven't even seen Glenn Ashby manage either then or since. Sure, he wasn't as good downhill (he was also on the heavy side) which meant he finished 5th overall, but everybody who saw it was seriously impressed. With all due respects to JS, it was a far better performance than I have seen from him, even though JS had far more A and other cat experience. Today, if I had to bet on one vs the other in A's, my money would be in DB.

 

Then you add to that the performances of DB in classes like the TP52 (which he dominated), or even the AC45's when ETNZ were taking them seriously. Until ETNZ changed their focus and only arrived at the ACWS events at the last minute and stopped AC45 training, they DB dominated JS.

 

To be honest, I would be delighted to have either on my team and would find it very hard to choose between them. Ultimately, they are only as good as the team around them but all this smack down talk about DB shows a total lack of understanding of our sport and just how good he is.

 

I guess I should have known better than to feed the troll, but I felt it needed to be said.

What poor examples. No mention of his Finn sailing record.

 

As for dominating the TP52. Well he had the fastest boat and the only one of its design.

 

As for the A class. Well where did he end up?... winning starts and leading at the top mark is achievable by many average sailor. Crossing the finishing line first and winningnoverall is the domain of true great sailors. And... he got dorked in every race... at the finish line... and in a class that is so tightly ruled that it is almost one design.

 

Sorry. He is not up to it as are you poor excuses for his ability. A couple of my mates sailed against him in TP52s. Most of his wins were from superior boat speed and his tacticians skill to jag wind shifts.

 

 

Exactly how many "average sailors" can CONSISTENTLY win starts and lead in big A Class regattas? I've spent some time lining up against Gashby and Stalky on the line and would say that not a single "average" sailor in the world could ever consistently win starts from them and lead them to the top mark.

 

I've got no personal experience to judge Barker on and I tend to agree that the current ETNZ leaders have had their chance to win. But to say that average sailors can consistently lead brilliant sailors like the top A sailors is just stupid.

 

 

if barker was that good then why did he not win a race?

 

good starts... wow!

 

Great first leg... wow!

 

what happened to the choker on the next legs (and don't say he was two heavy for downwind speed as that means he was a good weight for upwind on the next upwind leg)

 

and what about his finn failures/chokes?... ask Craig Monk what he thinks of Deans piss poor finn ability! I have.

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While it is never good to let facts get in the way of a good sledging, let's look at one of the critical areas where JS and DB could be compared, where they were in total control, namely the starts. There were 19 races, plus 3 more starts where the races were later abandoned, making 22 competitive starts in total. If we take getting to the first mark in the lead as the best indicator of the start (which is all I would argue is important), DB and JS actually shared the honours, 11 starts each. If you look at the 19 races, JS just edged it with 10 vs 9 by DB. Even if you look at things from when it was 8-1, there were actually 10 starts (one race didn't finish) and each won 5 of them. I think that was pretty impressive from DB, seeing that by then OR turned and accelerated better.

 

Comparing the 2 guys in something other than the AC, I have had the pleasure of racing against both in A Class cats. Yes, I know its not the AC, but there were some of the best cat sailors in the world racing. The time DB showed up, he had not sailed A's (I don't think he had sailed cats either) until a month before the event. He also said he hadn't trapezed for as long as he could remember, yet for somebody with such little experience, he won more than half the starts and led at the top mark more than half the races, a feat I haven't even seen Glenn Ashby manage either then or since. Sure, he wasn't as good downhill (he was also on the heavy side) which meant he finished 5th overall, but everybody who saw it was seriously impressed. With all due respects to JS, it was a far better performance than I have seen from him, even though JS had far more A and other cat experience. Today, if I had to bet on one vs the other in A's, my money would be in DB.

 

Then you add to that the performances of DB in classes like the TP52 (which he dominated), or even the AC45's when ETNZ were taking them seriously. Until ETNZ changed their focus and only arrived at the ACWS events at the last minute and stopped AC45 training, they DB dominated JS.

 

To be honest, I would be delighted to have either on my team and would find it very hard to choose between them. Ultimately, they are only as good as the team around them but all this smack down talk about DB shows a total lack of understanding of our sport and just how good he is.

 

I guess I should have known better than to feed the troll, but I felt it needed to be said.

What poor examples. No mention of his Finn sailing record.

 

As for dominating the TP52. Well he had the fastest boat and the only one of its design.

 

As for the A class. Well where did he end up?... winning starts and leading at the top mark is achievable by many average sailor. Crossing the finishing line first and winningnoverall is the domain of true great sailors. And... he got dorked in every race... at the finish line... and in a class that is so tightly ruled that it is almost one design.

 

Sorry. He is not up to it as are you poor excuses for his ability. A couple of my mates sailed against him in TP52s. Most of his wins were from superior boat speed and his tacticians skill to jag wind shifts.

 

Exactly how many "average sailors" can CONSISTENTLY win starts and lead in big A Class regattas? I've spent some time lining up against Gashby and Stalky on the line and would say that not a single "average" sailor in the world could ever consistently win starts from them and lead them to the top mark.

 

I've got no personal experience to judge Barker on and I tend to agree that the current ETNZ leaders have had their chance to win. But to say that average sailors can consistently lead brilliant sailors like the top A sailors is just stupid.

 

what rubbish.

 

Many sailors win starts and get to the top mark first and never win a race.

just one persistant (FOR THE LEG) shift on the first beat can put the back markers in the lead.

 

As for SimonN telling us that barker did not have the same power to change things as jimmy... what crap.

 

Barker had the same power and never once hardened up and made a tough decision. everybody else had to carry him.

 

JS had no more power but he took it on himself to lead the change by tough talking and backing it up.

 

So you are claiming that there was "one persistent shift on the first beat" that put Barker in the lead - and that this happened in half the races or more? If he picked the "one persistent shift" that often then he was obviously sailing bloody well!

 

Yes, every now and then an "average sailor" can jag a shift and lead to the first mark - but it's rare. If it happens regularly in a quality fleet, as in the case SImon mentioned, then it is not down to luck. You are insulting Gashby and Brewin and co when you claim that an "average sailor" can get to the top mark ahead of them on a regular basis.

 

Having the correct crew weight DOES make a difference in final finishing positions in A Class cats. Steve Brewin states that explicitly (not by way of making an excuse for getting beaten, but when discussing his tuning and optimisation). I seem to recall Slingsby saying that he was also handicapped by weight downwind in As.

 

Does Barker choke and did he under-perform in Finns? I don't know and I'm in no position to know. I DID say that IMHO he and Dalts have had their tries and therefore they should make way for others, if NZ wants to keep trying. IMHO the whole AC thing is now much more of an irrelevance and handicap to the sport of sailing than it used to be and I'd be happy to see everyone walk away, NZ included.

 

So yes, while my opinion in this is worthless I think Barker etc should go. But that doesn't mean that you are not full of bullshit when you claim that an "average sailor" can consistently lead the pack of brilliant sailors who make up the front of the A Class fleet.

 

I will ask one thing - if such a feat is easy meat for an "average sailor" then you must have done it, or better. Care to PM me your name so that I can check up

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Care to PM me your name so that I can check up

Good luck with that - he has many, many names. In reality he is just a mid fleet club level Flying Fifteen sailor with a small dick and a big chip on his narrow kiwi shoulders. Trust me on this pal you don't want to invite this sick fuck into your life. He takes this interweb shitfighting very seriously. Enough to stalk you at work and home. He is a completly deranged tool.

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It's strange that having raced against Nathan Outteridge, Tom Slingsby, Glenn Ashby, Jimmy Spithill and Darren Bundock (AC sailors) plus Olympic medalists such as Scott Anderson, Chris Cairns and Andrew Landenberg, plus major cat sailing stars such as Stevie Brewin, only one has managed to dominate starts and first legs and that is Dean Barker. Why did he "only" finish 5th in that championship? Probably because he weighed at least 10 kgs more than the guys he was competing against, plus he had only a few weeks experience in cats and A's, compared with everybody else who had many years or even a lifetime in them. What can be said with absolute certainty is the Jimmy Spithill has never done as well in A's as DB, and DB's result in his first A Class championships was significantly better than what Nathan or Tom achieved at their first A class championships. Every single person who sailed that event was super impressed by how good Dean Barker was, plus he showed himself to be a decent guy as well.

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While it is never good to let facts get in the way of a good sledging, let's look at one of the critical areas where JS and DB could be compared, where they were in total control, namely the starts. There were 19 races, plus 3 more starts where the races were later abandoned, making 22 competitive starts in total. If we take getting to the first mark in the lead as the best indicator of the start (which is all I would argue is important), DB and JS actually shared the honours, 11 starts each. If you look at the 19 races, JS just edged it with 10 vs 9 by DB. Even if you look at things from when it was 8-1, there were actually 10 starts (one race didn't finish) and each won 5 of them. I think that was pretty impressive from DB, seeing that by then OR turned and accelerated better.

 

Comparing the 2 guys in something other than the AC, I have had the pleasure of racing against both in A Class cats. Yes, I know its not the AC, but there were some of the best cat sailors in the world racing. The time DB showed up, he had not sailed A's (I don't think he had sailed cats either) until a month before the event. He also said he hadn't trapezed for as long as he could remember, yet for somebody with such little experience, he won more than half the starts and led at the top mark more than half the races, a feat I haven't even seen Glenn Ashby manage either then or since. Sure, he wasn't as good downhill (he was also on the heavy side) which meant he finished 5th overall, but everybody who saw it was seriously impressed. With all due respects to JS, it was a far better performance than I have seen from him, even though JS had far more A and other cat experience. Today, if I had to bet on one vs the other in A's, my money would be in DB.

 

Then you add to that the performances of DB in classes like the TP52 (which he dominated), or even the AC45's when ETNZ were taking them seriously. Until ETNZ changed their focus and only arrived at the ACWS events at the last minute and stopped AC45 training, they DB dominated JS.

 

To be honest, I would be delighted to have either on my team and would find it very hard to choose between them. Ultimately, they are only as good as the team around them but all this smack down talk about DB shows a total lack of understanding of our sport and just how good he is.

 

I guess I should have known better than to feed the troll, but I felt it needed to be said.

 

What poor examples. No mention of his Finn sailing record.

As for dominating the TP52. Well he had the fastest boat and the only one of its design.

As for the A class. Well where did he end up?... winning starts and leading at the top mark is achievable by many average sailor. Crossing the finishing line first and winningnoverall is the domain of true great sailors. And... he got dorked in every race... at the finish line... and in a class that is so tightly ruled that it is almost one design.

Sorry. He is not up to it as are you poor excuses for his ability. A couple of my mates sailed against him in TP52s. Most of his wins were from superior boat speed and his tacticians skill to jag wind shifts.

 

Exactly how many "average sailors" can CONSISTENTLY win starts and lead in big A Class regattas? I've spent some time lining up against Gashby and Stalky on the line and would say that not a single "average" sailor in the world could ever consistently win starts from them and lead them to the top mark.

 

I've got no personal experience to judge Barker on and I tend to agree that the current ETNZ leaders have had their chance to win. But to say that average sailors can consistently lead brilliant sailors like the top A sailors is just stupid.

 

what rubbish.

Many sailors win starts and get to the top mark first and never win a race.

just one persistant (FOR THE LEG) shift on the first beat can put the back markers in the lead.

As for SimonN telling us that barker did not have the same power to change things as jimmy... what crap.

Barker had the same power and never once hardened up and made a tough decision. everybody else had to carry him.

JS had no more power but he took it on himself to lead the change by tough talking and backing it up.

So you are claiming that there was "one persistent shift on the first beat" that put Barker in the lead - and that this happened in half the races or more? If he picked the "one persistent shift" that often then he was obviously sailing bloody well!

 

Yes, every now and then an "average sailor" can jag a shift and lead to the first mark - but it's rare. If it happens regularly in a quality fleet, as in the case SImon mentioned, then it is not down to luck. You are insulting Gashby and Brewin and co when you claim that an "average sailor" can get to the top mark ahead of them on a regular basis.

 

Having the correct crew weight DOES make a difference in final finishing positions in A Class cats. Steve Brewin states that explicitly (not by way of making an excuse for getting beaten, but when discussing his tuning and optimisation). I seem to recall Slingsby saying that he was also handicapped by weight downwind in As.

 

Does Barker choke and did he under-perform in Finns? I don't know and I'm in no position to know. I DID say that IMHO he and Dalts have had their tries and therefore they should make way for others, if NZ wants to keep trying. IMHO the whole AC thing is now much more of an irrelevance and handicap to the sport of sailing than it used to be and I'd be happy to see everyone walk away, NZ included.

 

So yes, while my opinion in this is worthless I think Barker etc should go. But that doesn't mean that you are not full of bullshit when you claim that an "average sailor" can consistently lead the pack of brilliant sailors who make up the front of the A Class fleet.

 

I will ask one thing - if such a feat is easy meat for an "average sailor" then you must have done it, or better. Care to PM me your name so that I can check up

If barker can do this in a A class worlds then the quality of sailors must be piss poor compared to Finns, OK, star, etchells, and other world class fleet sailors. Actually these guys in A class have never featured in OD fleets or AC's before because they are cat sailors.

 

a class, tornado, Hobie, Moth sailors don,t actually feature in any tough world represented fleet racing as they are not good enough to be selected to the top level and have been rejected from the Olympics.

 

Only since Coutts put the cats into the AC have cat sailors actually featured. For every regatta before this last AC there have been very few cat sailors selected for any team!...

 

I wonder why?... may be they are not good enough for tough mono sailing?

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SimonN:

 

People like 'Americas Cup' just kill this forum for me.

 

Please can you recommend an alternative site? How does 'boatdesign.net' compare? Anarchy is one thing...but page after page of one person writing utter shit based on hate and then others carefully responding to him.....only for AC to argue that up is down and black is white is a waste of time.

 

Americas Cup: Are you a member of a sailing club? If so they must love you at the bar. You wouldn't last 5 minutes on the streets of newcastle, liverpool, manchester.

 

 

It's strange that having raced against Nathan Outteridge, Tom Slingsby, Glenn Ashby, Jimmy Spithill and Darren Bundock (AC sailors) plus Olympic medalists such as Scott Anderson, Chris Cairns and Andrew Landenberg, plus major cat sailing stars such as Stevie Brewin, only one has managed to dominate starts and first legs and that is Dean Barker. Why did he "only" finish 5th in that championship? Probably because he weighed at least 10 kgs more than the guys he was competing against, plus he had only a few weeks experience in cats and A's, compared with everybody else who had many years or even a lifetime in them. What can be said with absolute certainty is the Jimmy Spithill has never done as well in A's as DB, and DB's result in his first A Class championships was significantly better than what Nathan or Tom achieved at their first A class championships. Every single person who sailed that event was super impressed by how good Dean Barker was, plus he showed himself to be a decent guy as well.

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SimonN:

 

People like 'Americas Cup' just kill this forum for me.

 

Please can you recommend an alternative site? How does 'boatdesign.net' compare? Anarchy is one thing...but page after page of one person writing utter shit based on hate and then others carefully responding to him.....only for AC to argue that up is down and black is white is a waste of time.

 

Americas Cup: Are you a member of a sailing club? If so they must love you at the bar. You wouldn't last 5 minutes on the streets of newcastle, liverpool, manchester.

 

 

 

 

It's strange that having raced against Nathan Outteridge, Tom Slingsby, Glenn Ashby, Jimmy Spithill and Darren Bundock (AC sailors) plus Olympic medalists such as Scott Anderson, Chris Cairns and Andrew Landenberg, plus major cat sailing stars such as Stevie Brewin, only one has managed to dominate starts and first legs and that is Dean Barker. Why did he "only" finish 5th in that championship? Probably because he weighed at least 10 kgs more than the guys he was competing against, plus he had only a few weeks experience in cats and A's, compared with everybody else who had many years or even a lifetime in them. What can be said with absolute certainty is the Jimmy Spithill has never done as well in A's as DB, and DB's result in his first A Class championships was significantly better than what Nathan or Tom achieved at their first A class championships. Every single person who sailed that event was super impressed by how good Dean Barker was, plus he showed himself to be a decent guy as well.

Chris you need to down a cup of "harden the fuck up".

 

This is my thread so either Offer "on topic " comment or fuck off.

 

By the way your post is more a bad reflection of your cold damp and miserable home land than of my ability to survive those cities... which by the way i have been to and seen none of the "hard arse atomesphere you think it has.

 

Now fuck off back to you boyfriend/boat design forum and leave the sailing talk to sailors... ya soft cock.

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If barker can do this in a A class worlds then the quality of sailors must be piss poor compared to Finns, OK, star, etchells, and other world class fleet sailors. Actually these guys in A class have never featured in OD fleets or AC's before because they are cat sailors.

 

a class, tornado, Hobie, Moth sailors don,t actually feature in any tough world represented fleet racing as they are not good enough to be selected to the top level and have been rejected from the Olympics.

 

Only since Coutts put the cats into the AC have cat sailors actually featured. For every regatta before this last AC there have been very few cat sailors selected for any team!...

 

I wonder why?... may be they are not good enough for tough mono sailing?

 

Errrr, no. I'm no one-eyed cat bigot (they do exist on SA, no doubt) and for a variety of reasons I personally prefer other types. But having married a cat sailor, I spent a few seasons casually* racing a cat, I'd have to say that the top cat guys are very bloody good at what they do. Guys like Ashby or Brewin seem to have an amazing sense for drawing the utmost boatspeed out of a craft that feels really quick even when it's going slow. It's an ability and talent that in some ways frustrates me more than the talent of someone like a Laser legend like Tom S, because I can see and understand what Tom does that makes him so good, whereas the top cat sailors seem to have an almost invisible edge in some ways.

 

Yes, the ability of the top A Class sailors may not (or may) translate into slower monos as well. I know that Ashby and Steve Brewin, for example, are a loooong way from fast when they have played in (very occasionally and very casually) Lasers. But the same goes both ways a lot of the time; some guys who have been on the worlds podium in major "slow mono" classes get whipped when they move into less conventional boats, too.

 

I've raced Etchells and FFs and I wouldn't rate the top cat sailors as inferior to the top sailors in those classes.

 

Anyway, as others have warned me (thanks chaps) you're not worth responding to anymore.

 

 

* Casually in that we did basically no training (which is unlike me) or boat prep (which is SOP...); not casual in that I suffered a lot of brain explosions when sailing 16' cats 'cause my dad was killed sailing a 16' cat on the same waters that our club raced on, so I tended to be very, very tense....just an apology for those who heard me screaming!

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Chris, stop being so polite and attempting logic and honesty with this deranged turkey - let his asinine post die a "choking" death.

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It's quite funny seeing Mr AC tie himself up in knots. Now he is singing the praises of people sailing old, slow boats and saying that they are better than the cat sailors. Yet how many of those world class "slow" sailors succeeded in AC34? We all saw how one of their best, a certain Terry Hutchison, made a total fool of himself and was a danger to all in cats. he simply wasn't up to the job, and neither were any of the other leadminers. Poor old JK wasn't up to it in the end either.

 

But then again, I seem to remember that DB used to beat all of those so called world class sailors that AC seems to think are so good when he was a leadminer, both in the TP52's and in AC32. He bested everybody but Alinghi, including JS.

 

Seems to me that DB was the only person to manage to bridge the gap between leadmines and apparent wind ultra high performance cats. And he didn't do too bad, managing to get his team to the position of being able to win 8 races against a boat that was clearly far quicker and a team with significantly more resources.

 

And just for the record, I have been fortunate enough to race against many of the all time greats of the last 35 years, but very few really stand out. Ben Ainslie is the best I have ever seen. Glenn Ashby is probably the closest I have seen to Ben, and Stevie Brewin is so close to Glenn its remarkable, which is not bad considering that for the whole time I have known him, he has worked hard, 5 days a week, building houses and then making sails at night. To think that those guys aren't equal to the very best is ill informed stupidity, but we are getting used to seeing that from one bigoted troll.

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TH was a danger in Cats? He seemed to do just fine in the match racing portion of the ACWS.

 

WetHog

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Interesting to read that GD considers all COR's over the last 10 years to be poodles. Even lumping BMWO for AC32 in as a poodle.

 

I find that interesting considering GD had a similar arrangement with LR that EB had with Uncle Larry after AC31. I guess GD confirmed my belief that, should ETNZ won that elusive last race, that LR would of been an Italian Poodle.

 

WetHog

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Interesting to read that GD considers all COR's over the last 10 years to be poodles. Even lumping BMWO for AC32 in as a poodle.

 

I find that interesting considering GD had a similar arrangement with LR that EB had with Uncle Larry after AC31. I guess GD confirmed my belief that, should ETNZ won that elusive last race, that LR would of been an Italian Poodle.

 

WetHog

 

 

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

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More at SailWorld

Challenger Discussions no Pushover

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup:-Challenger-discussions-no-push-over-this-time/118384

Interesting to read that GD considers all COR's over the last 10 years to be poodles. Even lumping BMWO for AC32 in as a poodle.

 

I find that interesting considering GD had a similar arrangement with LR that EB had with Uncle Larry after AC31. I guess GD confirmed my belief that, should ETNZ won that elusive last race, that LR would of been an Italian Poodle.

 

WetHog

 

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

A COR arrangement prior to winning the Cup with a credible AC team. So if GD considered BMWO a poodle of EB then it is fair to think of LR, if ETNZ won AC34, as a poodle as well.

 

Sorry, forgot some weren't around here for AC32.

 

WetHog

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More at SailWorld

Challenger Discussions no Pushover

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup:-Challenger-discussions-no-push-over-this-time/118384

Interesting to read that GD considers all COR's over the last 10 years to be poodles. Even lumping BMWO for AC32 in as a poodle.

 

I find that interesting considering GD had a similar arrangement with LR that EB had with Uncle Larry after AC31. I guess GD confirmed my belief that, should ETNZ won that elusive last race, that LR would of been an Italian Poodle.

 

WetHog

 

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

A COR arrangement prior to winning the Cup with a credible AC team. So if GD considered BMWO a poodle of EB then it is fair to think of LR, if ETNZ won AC34, as a poodle as well.

 

Sorry, forgot some weren't around here for AC32.

 

WetHog

 

Bullshit. Conjecture isn't fairness.

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More at SailWorld

Challenger Discussions no Pushover

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Americas-Cup:-Challenger-discussions-no-push-over-this-time/118384

Interesting to read that GD considers all COR's over the last 10 years to be poodles. Even lumping BMWO for AC32 in as a poodle.

 

I find that interesting considering GD had a similar arrangement with LR that EB had with Uncle Larry after AC31. I guess GD confirmed my belief that, should ETNZ won that elusive last race, that LR would of been an Italian Poodle.

 

WetHog

 

Whatever that's supposed to mean.

A COR arrangement prior to winning the Cup with a credible AC team. So if GD considered BMWO a poodle of EB then it is fair to think of LR, if ETNZ won AC34, as a poodle as well.

 

Sorry, forgot some weren't around here for AC32.

 

WetHog

Bullshit. Conjecture isn't fairness.

If BMWOs conduct as COR fits GDs definition of a poodle then whatever LR would have done as ENTZs COR would have fit GDs poodle definition as well.

 

BMWO was such a good poodle for EB that he went out an created CNEV to be his next COR.

 

But you are right, it is bullshit, but that has never stopped GD from running his mouth before.

 

WetHog

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Well, the kiwis had the safer boat, and also the best boat until about 2 weeks before the end.

 

The US had the more extreme boat and they succeeded to stiffen and make her fly upwind just in time to win.

 

Both crews were good, the boat made the difference, as usual in the AC.

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Well, the kiwis had the safer boat, and also the best boat until about 2 weeks before the end.

 

The US had the more extreme boat and they succeeded to stiffen and make her fly upwind just in time to win.

 

Both crews were good, the boat made the difference, as usual in the AC.

bullshite! Oracle were better because...

 

1. they won two extra races to win the cup (remember the -2 deficit!)

 

2. in the first half of the regatta when ETNZ were faster Oracle took two races (IN ESSENCE 4) of ETNZ.

 

Oracles crew were better sailors and they had better leaders. they figured out there was a speed issue upwind and overcome it.

 

ETNZ saw there was a speed issue in the second half of the finals and.... CHOKED on there own spew as Jimmy eat them up and spat them out

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It's quite funny seeing Mr AC tie himself up in knots. Now he is singing the praises of people sailing old, slow boats and saying that they are better than the cat sailors. Yet how many of those world class "slow" sailors succeeded in AC34? We all saw how one of their best, a certain Terry Hutchison, made a total fool of himself and was a danger to all in cats. he simply wasn't up to the job, and neither were any of the other leadminers. Poor old JK wasn't up to it in the end either.

 

But then again, I seem to remember that DB used to beat all of those so called world class sailors that AC seems to think are so good when he was a leadminer, both in the TP52's and in AC32. He bested everybody but Alinghi, including JS.

 

Seems to me that DB was the only person to manage to bridge the gap between leadmines and apparent wind ultra high performance cats. And he didn't do too bad, managing to get his team to the position of being able to win 8 races against a boat that was clearly far quicker and a team with significantly more resources.

 

And just for the record, I have been fortunate enough to race against many of the all time greats of the last 35 years, but very few really stand out. Ben Ainslie is the best I have ever seen. Glenn Ashby is probably the closest I have seen to Ben, and Stevie Brewin is so close to Glenn its remarkable, which is not bad considering that for the whole time I have known him, he has worked hard, 5 days a week, building houses and then making sails at night. To think that those guys aren't equal to the very best is ill informed stupidity, but we are getting used to seeing that from one bigoted troll.

what crap... you have not sailed against true greats but only average cat sailors in average fleets from limited countries represented...

 

Torben grael, is better than those guys except Ainslie. as well as the following...

 

 

 

Robert Scheidt,

 

 

Star Class: Olympic Games: Silver in Beijing, 2008

World Championship: 2007, 2011 (Perth, Australia), 2012 (Hyeres, France)

 

Pre-Olympic: 2006

 

South American Championship: 2006

 

Brazilian Championship: 2006

 

 

Laser Class Olympic Games: Gold in Atlanta, 1996 and in Athens, 2004

Silver in Sydney, 2000

 

World Championships: Tenerife, Spain, 1995

Cape Town, South Africa, 1996

Algarrobo, Chile, 1997

Cancún, Mexico, 2000

Cork, Ireland, 2001

Cape Cod, USA, 2002

Bitez, Turkey, 2004

Fortaleza, Brazil, 2005

Muscat, Oman, 2013

 

World ISAF Games: Marseille, France, 1997

 

World Junior Championship: Scotland, 1991

 

Pan AMerican Games: Mar del Plata, Argentina, 1995

Winnipeg, Canada, 1999

Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, 2003

 

Europe Cup: 1993, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2005

 

South American Championships: 1992, 1993, 1994, 1997, 2001, 2004

 

Brazilian Championships: 1987 (junior), 1991 (junior), 1992, 1994, 1995, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005

 

Kiel Week: 1999, 2000, 2004

 

Spa Week: 1998, 2002

 

 

Optimist Class: South American Championship (youth): 1985, 1986

 

 

 

Mateusz Kusznierewicz

 

1993: 2nd place World Championships OK Dinghy

 

1994: European Champion OK Dinghy

2nd place World Championships OK Dinghy

 

1996: Olympic Champion Finn Dinghy

2nd place European Championships Finn Dinghy

 

1998: World Champion Finn Dinghy

Winner of the Kieler Week Finn Dinghy

 

1999: Winner of the Kieler Week Finn Dinghy

 

2000: World Champion Finn Dinghy

European Champion Finn Dinghy

4th place at the Olympic Games Finn Dinghy

 

2001: 2nd place World Championships Finn Dinghy

 

2002: 2nd place World Championships Finn Dinghy

Winner of the Kieler Week Finn Dinghy

 

2003: 2nd place European Championships Finn Dinghy

6th place World Championships Finn Dinghy

 

2004 European Champion Finn Dinghy

4th place World Championships Finn Dinghy

3rd place at the Olympic Games Finn Dinghy

 

have you sailed against them?

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Well, the kiwis had the safer boat, and also the best boat until about 2 weeks before the end.

 

The US had the more extreme boat and they succeeded to stiffen and make her fly upwind just in time to win.

 

Both crews were good, the boat made the difference, as usual in the AC.

in the first half of the regatta when ETNZ were faster Oracle took two races (IN ESSENCE 4) of ETNZ.

 

Oracles crew were better sailors and they had better leaders.

Wrong,

- even with a faster boat you rarely win ALL the races and, following your logic, nothing proves that the US crew was better.

- the US crew did not do the winning modifications, the technical team did it. What proof do you have that OR leaders were better ? none.

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It's quite funny seeing Mr AC tie himself up in knots. Now he is singing the praises of people sailing old, slow boats and saying that they are better than the cat sailors. Yet how many of those world class "slow" sailors succeeded in AC34? We all saw how one of their best, a certain Terry Hutchison, made a total fool of himself and was a danger to all in cats. he simply wasn't up to the job, and neither were any of the other leadminers. Poor old JK wasn't up to it in the end either.

 

But then again, I seem to remember that DB used to beat all of those so called world class sailors that AC seems to think are so good when he was a leadminer, both in the TP52's and in AC32. He bested everybody but Alinghi, including JS.

 

Seems to me that DB was the only person to manage to bridge the gap between leadmines and apparent wind ultra high performance cats. And he didn't do too bad, managing to get his team to the position of being able to win 8 races against a boat that was clearly far quicker and a team with significantly more resources.

 

And just for the record, I have been fortunate enough to race against many of the all time greats of the last 35 years, but very few really stand out. Ben Ainslie is the best I have ever seen. Glenn Ashby is probably the closest I have seen to Ben, and Stevie Brewin is so close to Glenn its remarkable, which is not bad considering that for the whole time I have known him, he has worked hard, 5 days a week, building houses and then making sails at night. To think that those guys aren't equal to the very best is ill informed stupidity, but we are getting used to seeing that from one bigoted troll.

you are the bigoted troll. this is my thread so pull ya head in.

 

barker had the faster boat for more than half the finals and lost to the slower boat whom had a -2 deficit.

 

even when ETNZ was faster in the first half of the finals, Oracle managed to take two races of them blus another two to get to 8 - 2.

 

Steve Brewin is not even ranked as a good sailor yet/ let alone could you compare him in a top 100 list of great sailors like Conner, Bertrand, coutts, Monk, Cutler, Ullman, Percy, gerz,Hortanes, and many more.

 

you my friend like to talk yourself up. but in reality you have sailed against average cat sailors and not great sailors.

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Well, the kiwis had the safer boat, and also the best boat until about 2 weeks before the end.

 

The US had the more extreme boat and they succeeded to stiffen and make her fly upwind just in time to win.

 

Both crews were good, the boat made the difference, as usual in the AC.

in the first half of the regatta when ETNZ were faster Oracle took two races (IN ESSENCE 4) of ETNZ.

 

Oracles crew were better sailors and they had better leaders.

 

 

Wrong,

- even with a faster boat you rarely win ALL the races and, following your logic, nothing proves that the US crew was better.

- the US crew did not do the winning modifications, the technical team did it. What proof do you have that OR leaders were better ? none.

 

 

who would have told the tech team what they wanted and how the boat felt/was going!!!

 

jimmy and Ben were better by the simple fact they sailed past Barker with better tactics and better skill. barker made dumb calls like the lee bow tack that cost them.

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To think that those guys aren't equal to the very best is ill informed stupidity, but we are getting used to seeing that from one bigoted troll.

you are the bigoted troll.

 

No, you are the bigoted troll...

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Well, the kiwis had the safer boat, and also the best boat until about 2 weeks before the end.

 

The US had the more extreme boat and they succeeded to stiffen and make her fly upwind just in time to win.

 

Both crews were good, the boat made the difference, as usual in the AC.

in the first half of the regatta when ETNZ were faster Oracle took two races (IN ESSENCE 4) of ETNZ.

 

Oracles crew were better sailors and they had better leaders.

 

Wrong,

- even with a faster boat you rarely win ALL the races and, following your logic, nothing proves that the US crew was better.

- the US crew did not do the winning modifications, the technical team did it. What proof do you have that OR leaders were better ? none.

 

who would have told the tech team what they wanted and how the boat felt/was going!!!

 

jimmy and Ben were better by the simple fact they sailed past Barker with better tactics and better skill. barker made dumb calls like the lee bow tack that cost them.

Wrong again,

Do you think the managers can tell the tech team what to do ?

Most of the tactics were done at the start and gates, boats sailed pretty much the same race in the same perimeter

Yes, Barker made one dumb call, like JS did too.

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Well, the kiwis had the safer boat, and also the best boat until about 2 weeks before the end.

 

The US had the more extreme boat and they succeeded to stiffen and make her fly upwind just in time to win.

 

Both crews were good, the boat made the difference, as usual in the AC.

 

in the first half of the regatta when ETNZ were faster Oracle took two races (IN ESSENCE 4) of ETNZ.

Oracles crew were better sailors and they had better leaders.

 

Wrong,

- even with a faster boat you rarely win ALL the races and, following your logic, nothing proves that the US crew was better.

- the US crew did not do the winning modifications, the technical team did it. What proof do you have that OR leaders were better ? none.

 

who would have told the tech team what they wanted and how the boat felt/was going!!!

jimmy and Ben were better by the simple fact they sailed past Barker with better tactics and better skill. barker made dumb calls like the lee bow tack that cost them.

Wrong again,

Do you think the managers can tell the tech team what to do ?

Most of the tactics were done at the start and gates, boats sailed pretty much the same race in the same perimeter

Yes, Barker made one dumb call, like JS did too.

you are a complete muppet. Do you think for one moment the tech team do their own thing with no direction from the sailing team?..

 

That's like the pilot having a issue with the plane and then the techs just doin what they like with no advice from the pilot on what the problem is!

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in the first half of the regatta when ETNZ were faster Oracle took two races (IN ESSENCE 4) of ETNZ.

Oracles crew were better sailors and they had better leaders.

Wrong,

- even with a faster boat you rarely win ALL the races and, following your logic, nothing proves that the US crew was better.

- the US crew did not do the winning modifications, the technical team did it. What proof do you have that OR leaders were better ? none.

who would have told the tech team what they wanted and how the boat felt/was going!!!

jimmy and Ben were better by the simple fact they sailed past Barker with better tactics and better skill. barker made dumb calls like the lee bow tack that cost them.

Wrong again,

Do you think the managers can tell the tech team what to do ?

Most of the tactics were done at the start and gates, boats sailed pretty much the same race in the same perimeter

Yes, Barker made one dumb call, like JS did too.

you are a complete muppet. Do you think for one moment the tech team do their own thing with no direction from the sailing team?..

 

That's like the pilot having a issue with the plane and then the techs just doin what they like with no advice from the pilot on what the problem is!

^^ Play the ball, not the man :)

 

Anyway, you are clueless...

 

Both sailing team were willing to foil upwind, fact is that the OR tech team made the difference.

 

Which shows how your hundreds of previous posts about GD and DB were trollish and pointless.

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So lets move on, hopefully AC (not me in any shape or form) will be buttfucked to death today in that homosexual paradise of Paros. So who could replace Dalton in a heartbeat? Butterworth .Possibly the only person next to Coutts who would have the respect within ETNZ. It would be a great interview for Clean but the outcome is inevitable.

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Brian I wish I was Bradley. A shit load smarter and richer than me. Funnily enough all the Westlakes I sailed with were useless. Related to Paul?

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Americas Cup "this is my thread so pull ya head in"

 

- what a twat.

 

 

 

 

It's quite funny seeing Mr AC tie himself up in knots. Now he is singing the praises of people sailing old, slow boats and saying that they are better than the cat sailors. Yet how many of those world class "slow" sailors succeeded in AC34? We all saw how one of their best, a certain Terry Hutchison, made a total fool of himself and was a danger to all in cats. he simply wasn't up to the job, and neither were any of the other leadminers. Poor old JK wasn't up to it in the end either.

But then again, I seem to remember that DB used to beat all of those so called world class sailors that AC seems to think are so good when he was a leadminer, both in the TP52's and in AC32. He bested everybody but Alinghi, including JS.

Seems to me that DB was the only person to manage to bridge the gap between leadmines and apparent wind ultra high performance cats. And he didn't do too bad, managing to get his team to the position of being able to win 8 races against a boat that was clearly far quicker and a team with significantly more resources.

And just for the record, I have been fortunate enough to race against many of the all time greats of the last 35 years, but very few really stand out. Ben Ainslie is the best I have ever seen. Glenn Ashby is probably the closest I have seen to Ben, and Stevie Brewin is so close to Glenn its remarkable, which is not bad considering that for the whole time I have known him, he has worked hard, 5 days a week, building houses and then making sails at night. To think that those guys aren't equal to the very best is ill informed stupidity, but we are getting used to seeing that from one bigoted troll.

you are the bigoted troll. this is my thread so pull ya head in.

barker had the faster boat for more than half the finals and lost to the slower boat whom had a -2 deficit.

even when ETNZ was faster in the first half of the finals, Oracle managed to take two races of them blus another two to get to 8 - 2.

Steve Brewin is not even ranked as a good sailor yet/ let alone could you compare him in a top 100 list of great sailors like Conner, Bertrand, coutts, Monk, Cutler, Ullman, Percy, gerz,Hortanes, and many more.

you my friend like to talk yourself up. but in reality you have sailed against average cat sailors and not great sailors.

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Americas Cup "this is my thread so pull ya head in"

 

- what a twat.

 

 

 

you are the bigoted troll. this is my thread so pull ya head in.

 

barker had the faster boat for more than half the finals and lost to the slower boat whom had a -2 deficit.

 

even when ETNZ was faster in the first half of the finals, Oracle managed to take two races of them blus another two to get to 8 - 2.

 

Steve Brewin is not even ranked as a good sailor yet/ let alone could you compare him in a top 100 list of great sailors like Conner, Bertrand, coutts, Monk, Cutler, Ullman, Percy, gerz,Hortanes, and many more.

 

you my friend like to talk yourself up. but in reality you have sailed against average cat sailors and not great sailors.

 

Did he really write this? That's hilarious, thanks for reposting, a new high for SA humor.

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So lets move on, hopefully AC (not me in any shape or form) will be buttfucked to death today in that homosexual paradise of Paros. So who could replace Dalton in a heartbeat? Butterworth .Possibly the only person next to Coutts who would have the respect within ETNZ. It would be a great interview for Clean but the outcome is inevitable.

Ummmm?.... Nice!... so what were all the PM's to me about being freinds and swapping contact numbers about?

 

bit two faced i think,

 

should i post them???....

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Another by shaken not stirred Gladwell, Herbie.

--

 

Tuesdays announcement that 49er World and European Champions Peter Burling and Blair Tuke had signed with Emirates Team New Zealand, created a happy glow for a day, before the hoary subject of other aspects of the Team got their usual bashing in the general sports media.

 

The real significance of the announcement was that it has bridged the gap between Emirates Team NZ and Yachting New Zealand, which is a real win-win for both parties and the sport in general not forgetting that Sailing in 2013 was New Zealands best performed Olympic sport.

 

http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Gladwells-Line:-Kiwis-join-up-the-Sailing-dots/118470

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While it is never good to let facts get in the way of a good sledging, let's look at one of the critical areas where JS and DB could be compared, where they were in total control, namely the starts. There were 19 races, plus 3 more starts where the races were later abandoned, making 22 competitive starts in total. If we take getting to the first mark in the lead as the best indicator of the start (which is all I would argue is important), DB and JS actually shared the honours, 11 starts each. If you look at the 19 races, JS just edged it with 10 vs 9 by DB. Even if you look at things from when it was 8-1, there were actually 10 starts (one race didn't finish) and each won 5 of them. I think that was pretty impressive from DB, seeing that by then OR turned and accelerated better.

 

Comparing the 2 guys in something other than the AC, I have had the pleasure of racing against both in A Class cats. Yes, I know its not the AC, but there were some of the best cat sailors in the world racing. The time DB showed up, he had not sailed A's (I don't think he had sailed cats either) until a month before the event. He also said he hadn't trapezed for as long as he could remember, yet for somebody with such little experience, he won more than half the starts and led at the top mark more than half the races, a feat I haven't even seen Glenn Ashby manage either then or since. Sure, he wasn't as good downhill (he was also on the heavy side) which meant he finished 5th overall, but everybody who saw it was seriously impressed. With all due respects to JS, it was a far better performance than I have seen from him, even though JS had far more A and other cat experience. Today, if I had to bet on one vs the other in A's, my money would be in DB.

 

Then you add to that the performances of DB in classes like the TP52 (which he dominated), or even the AC45's when ETNZ were taking them seriously. Until ETNZ changed their focus and only arrived at the ACWS events at the last minute and stopped AC45 training, they DB dominated JS.

 

To be honest, I would be delighted to have either on my team and would find it very hard to choose between them. Ultimately, they are only as good as the team around them but all this smack down talk about DB shows a total lack of understanding of our sport and just how good he is.

 

I guess I should have known better than to feed the troll, but I felt it needed to be said.

Nicely argued. Thanks for your insight.

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Believe it or not,

 

Paul Elvstrom was best yachtsman ever, but he never won the cup.

From the german wiki:

He was advisor for Baron March Bich who wanted to take the cup. But Paul Elvstrom was to his own sayings never preparred to take compromises!????

He did some work on perfectioning twelve meter class 165.

Can't say that is bad taste.

post-17796-0-40565600-1390040015_thumb.jpg

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(...)

Nicely argued. Thanks for your insight.

 

SimonN and Stingray are real class acts nowadays. It's great again to read their input.

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Believe it or not,

 

Paul Elvstrom was best yachtsman ever, but he never won the cup.

From the german wiki:

He was advisor for Baron March Bich who wanted to take the cup. But Paul Elvstrom was to his own sayings never preparred to take compromises!????

He did some work on perfectioning twelve meter class 165.

Can't say that is bad taste.

Remember that Nationality rules were serious then so the design and personnel had to be French!

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NZ Herald, Herbie Lewis

 

Yachting: Barker may stand down

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11188749

 

...

Dalton also made it clear that Barker would continue to be skipper in the present while also morphing into a sailing director's role. That leaves the question of skipper open in the long term and Dalton said: "Peter Burling may ultimately be the best thing this country has ever seen - but he is not there yet. If Dean Barker is not driving the boat in 2017 - and Dean will be very much involved in that decision - Peter Burling will have to take it from him.

...

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from

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11188750

...

Emirates Team New Zealand are discussing a new, permanent home on Auckland's Wynyard Quarter for a base which team boss Grant Dalton describes as "much more than a tin shed".

 

The team has to move out of their current base in Halsey St to make way for a five-star hotel to be built there some time next year and the team are looking for a settled home.

 

That could be on the Beaumont St site where Italian America's Cup syndicate Luna Rossa was based as they developed their AC72 catamaran in conjunction with a design-sharing arrangement with Team New Zealand in 2012 and 2013.

...

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NZ Herald, Herbie Lewis

 

Yachting: Barker may stand down

http://m.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11188749

 

...

Dalton also made it clear that Barker would continue to be skipper in the present while also morphing into a sailing director's role. That leaves the question of skipper open in the long term and Dalton said: "Peter Burling may ultimately be the best thing this country has ever seen - but he is not there yet. If Dean Barker is not driving the boat in 2017 - and Dean will be very much involved in that decision - Peter Burling will have to take it from him.

...

 

The one I'm really sorry for is Adam Minoprio. He certainly would have deserved to play a major role within ETNZ's AC department, but it looks like "wrong place at the wrong time" for him.

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SimonN and Stingray are real class acts nowadays. It's great again to read their input.

You are saying that stinger has returned to rationality and it is safe to take him off ignore?

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SimonN and Stingray are real class acts nowadays. It's great again to read their input.

You are saying that stinger has returned to rationality and it is safe to take him off ignore?

 

 

Never had him on ignore and never will, because I'm always interested in what a friend has to say, no matter how far apart our opinions were at times. So, you better decide for yourself.

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at http://techday.com/the-channel/news/lunch-invite-sail-away-with-team-nz-and-dell-innovation/176708/ (contd)

 

Join members of the Emirates Team New Zealand design team for an Auckland lunch as they share how Dell’s end-to-end solutions drove innovation to the highest level, kickstarting a surge of technical brilliance in front of the watching world at the 2013 America’s Cup.

 

Located in the Viaduct Events Centre at 12 noon on February 5, find out first hand how Emirates Team New Zealand’s new class of multihull boats inspired a dramatic climax to the famous sailing competition.

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Join members of the Emirates Team New Zealand design team for an Auckland lunch as they share how Dell’s end-to-end solutions drove innovation to the highest level, kickstarting a surge of technical brilliance before getting their asses kicked in front of the watching world at the 2013 America’s Cup.

 

Located in the Viaduct Events Centre at 12 noon on February 5, find out first hand how Emirates Team New Zealand’s new class of multihull boats inspired a dramatic climax to the famous sailing competition, in which they were soundly beaten by a faster boat.

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"Team New Zealand will return to the Extreme 40 circuit this year as they endeavour to keep the sailing team occupied while they await details of the next America's Cup.

 

Contested in one-design 40-ft catamarans, the series features several top sailing teams, including one of Team New Zealand's old rivals, Alinghi, and Ben Ainslie Racing."

 

Details: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11189891

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You can buy one here:

http://www.extreme40.org/contact

from the price of 400 thousand Euro she is yours,

in any paintjob you desire.

 

"Team New Zealand will return to the Extreme 40 circuit this year as they endeavour to keep the sailing team occupied while they await details of the next America's Cup.

 

Contested in one-design 40-ft catamarans, the series features several top sailing teams, including one of Team New Zealand's old rivals, Alinghi, and Ben Ainslie Racing."

 

Details: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11189891

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