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MR.CLEAN

Who's coming to the US Sailing Leadership forum?

261 posts in this topic

Last month after a Star event in Miami, Mer and I went to Lauderdale to hang with my 85 year-old widowed grandmother, whose Clinton-era computer finally shit the bed. I got her a WiFi router and then took her to the Apple store to get her an iPad so she could e-mail and FaceTime with some of her kids and grandkids. For three days, I watched her try to master the most intuitive and easy-to-learn mini-computer ever built - a device so simple that my 3-year-old niece can navigate through apps with ease. And it was painful. While she's slowly learning (and I've since spent about 5 hours on the phone helping her progress), it remains quite painful to watch, and I bring it up only because watching her try to learn the iPad is quite a bit like watching US Sailing try to join the modern era, and this week provides a great opportunity for some of that fun.

 

We've long critiqued US Sailing, America's 'steward' of the sport, due to its inability to understand and respond to the changing face of sailboat racing in the states over the past couple of decades; a result of entrenched thinking and a baby-boom makeup who never learned to communicate to members born in the '60s and beyond. Rather than a wayfinder or trailblazer, the sport's governing body has been reactionary and defensive even in the face of massive decline and failure both in the steward role and as the trustee of the Olympic effort.

 

In 2011, US Sailing began fumbling its way toward something resembling progress with the Yacht Club Summit, an expensive and stupidly named event that actually produced some good conversation and a handful of interesting seminars that might have helped move the sport forward had it been followed up. Most of the good stuff was lost In the nearly three years since that event took place, but they're making another effort, and almost twice as many people are signed up for this week's US Sailing Leadership Forum in San Diego as that one. And while our own Editor was informally 'disinvited' after some little bitch complained about him, I'll be there to get the fireworks going as part of a media seminar oddly called 'Around The Winch." I'll be matched up in a moderated discussion with three members of the 'old' media in what is apparently meant to approximate ESPN's half-hour infotainment show 'Around The Horn'. Unfortunately, I have no idea what that means, since I am not a retiree watching a 5 PM sports talk show on cable, but the format seemed like a good idea to someone at US Sailing...draw your own conclusions from that. I'll make no predictions beyond this: If you're coming, show up in the Monte Carlo Room at 2:30 PM on Thursday to check out what happens when you put Sailing Anarchy, Sailing World, Scuttlebutt, SailGroove (remember that?) and freelancer Kimball Livingston together on a stage. Apparently US Sailing even has an iPhone/Android app that will let you ask your own questions of this 'esteemed' panel, so if you're coming, throw a grenade or two via that. 21st Century, here we come!

 

No matter how much of a circle jerk the LF ends up being, it's never a bad idea to get a big pile of decision makers together to network and hopefully decide on the fate of the free world, and some of the sport's illuminati will be in attendance, as well as much of the fossilized past. And there are some great strip clubs just a few miles away. If you're coming, let us know, and if you're leading a seminar or giving a talk, promote it here so we know who's doing what. US Sailing says they are bringing some videographers, but we're prepared to be underwhelmed on the 'reportage' part of it, so we'll do our best to record what we can via mobile devices and post it to SA's Facebook Page, which has more than three times as many readers as US Sailing's anyway.

 

 

I look forward to seeing you there.

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US Sailing Leadership ...

 

 

 

"The most interesting information come from children, for they tell all they know and then stop." –Mark Twain

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My club is sending the head of the junior program. She is chasing away kids and families from the junior program by only being interested in racing. She calls those kids aged 7-10 not as interested in racing the "baby sitting sailing club". I don't hold out much hope.

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I'll be there...Hopefully this snow storm in the NE doesn't hold up my flight tomorrow night out of BOS...

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My club is sending the head of the junior program. She is chasing away kids and families from the junior program by only being interested in racing. She calls those kids aged 7-10 not as interested in racing the "baby sitting sailing club". I don't hold out much hope.

Then your club has a problem doesn't it. That's NOT US Sailings responsibility, it's yours.

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My club is sending the head of the junior program. She is chasing away kids and families from the junior program by only being interested in racing. She calls those kids aged 7-10 not as interested in racing the "baby sitting sailing club". I don't hold out much hope.

Then your club has a problem doesn't it. That's NOT US Sailings responsibility, it's yours.

+1!

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My club is sending the head of the junior program. She is chasing away kids and families from the junior program by only being interested in racing. She calls those kids aged 7-10 not as interested in racing the "baby sitting sailing club". I don't hold out much hope.

 

So are you volunteering to run the baby sitting sailing club? Programmes tend to achieve only what they set out to achieve: no reason why you shouldn't have two with different aims running alongside each other.

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Clean- I'm not going, but I know plenty of people that are. All are asking questions, and all

are wondering what US Flailing, oops typo, I mean Sailing can do.

 

First, this is a mash up of what used to be 3 separate events: The Community Sailing Conference

(which also included the for-profit learn to sail programs or what was once called the Commercial

Sailing Schools Council), the One-Design and Junior Sailing Symposium, and as you point out the Yacht

Club Summit. Might be interesting to find out the mix of how many from each constituency show

up, plus how many from the "industry".

 

This all comes at an interesting time, as the National Marine Manufacturers Association held a joint

breakfast meeting in Chicago at Strictly Sail with US Sailing to see how the two could cooperate to

promote other aspects of the sport besides racing.

 

I think someone better point out that yacht clubs are not "the" answer (US Sailing's traditional audience),

that we seriously need to put fun back into the equation in junior programs (both in terms of curriculum

and equipment), and as a sport we need to figure out how to better leverage marquis events like the

AC, along with industry, to grow the sport. Ideas you and the rest of SA have been shouting about

for years.

 

Good luck out there.

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Good points RM. I'm guessing the keynote from Ken Read will set the tone for this thing.

 

Who is running the NMMA these days?

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Be there on Wed afternoon to drop my wife's restored wooden Naples Sabot in the pool. Not attending anything else, I'm going sailing instead...

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is this US ailing leadership forum where US Ailing tells us all to drink their koolaid and then ask for money to support US ailing?? with no say in how this organization is run?? oh yeah....

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is this US ailing leadership forum where US Ailing tells us all to drink their koolaid and then ask for money to support US ailing?? with no say in how this organization is run?? oh yeah....

 

The fundamental flaw in any US Sailing run event: It's run for the rich.

 

We'll do our best to dig deeper. We're usually pretty good at that.

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We're told that US Sailing actually made some money available for community sailing travel expenses, too. We'll see how much went out the door there and who it helped bring in.

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Alan, I should send you the transcript of a text chat I had with a certain USS person about this just yesterday. You'd appreciate it...

 

The agenda and speakers for this event actually look pretty good. I'd say they're attempting to address what a lot of people here gripe about. And it's nice that they've taken this to the west coast. I think they're trying. But they still seem woefully ill equipped to disseminate the info that comes out of these sessions. As I'm sure you'll point out. ;-)

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I guess they're 'trying' to change things.

 

What's that about old dogs and new tricks?

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Too much emphasis is put on the racing aspect instead of just teaching and having fun sailing.

Everyone thinks the Olympics are the goal.
Racing usually involves too many yelling a-holes unless you hook up on the right boat.

 

Also, I have tried to talk to several universities about a Disabled Sailing. They already have an able (normal) sailing Team.

It would be very easy for an Athletic Dir to reach out to Disabled Students. After all they do have access to those records.

I was informed it is the job of the Community (city or County or NonProfit) to provide this aspect of sailing.

I guess they do not want to detract from the kids who sail already and do not want to get a few adaptive boats.

If there were a disabled person who wanted to sail, Title 9 could raise hell with the existing team.

It would make sense for Several Schools to form a regional co-op to provide this.

 

US Sailing Leadership.....That is a Laugh

I notice they are having the token meeting out west.

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Let's think about this. In my humble opinion, under U.S. Sailing's direction (and it's predecessor USYRU), sail boat racing has been on the decline for 35 years. In that same time U.S. Sailing has developed numerous programs which they will be selling those programs and services to the people who come to the Leadership Summit.

 

The experts at shrinking sailing will convince others to help shrink sailing too. Jump on the bandwagon everyone! All aboard, full speed ahead.

 

Why anyone would go to this thing, is beyond my imagination. Obviously the numbers of participation don't matter to anyone. If it did, no one would go, they would go elsewhere seeking answers to growth and prosperity.

 

It's all about making coin to US Sailing. I'll bet that Clean doesn't get a free entry, I bet they make the speakers at the event pay the $225 entry fee. Such a deal.

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I'll be there...Hopefully this snow storm in the NE doesn't hold up my flight tomorrow night out of BOS...

 

US Sailing sent the girl running the app out a day early because of that concern.

 

Clean, they're at least trying to bring in the right people for the job. Rather than having some fogey running the app it's an active college sailor friend of mine who lives in the dorms with me.

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Let's think about this. In my humble opinion, under U.S. Sailing's direction (and it's predecessor USYRU), sail boat racing has been on the decline for 35 years. In that same time U.S. Sailing has developed numerous programs which they will be selling those programs and services to the people who come to the Leadership Summit.

 

The experts at shrinking sailing will convince others to help shrink sailing too. Jump on the bandwagon everyone! All aboard, full speed ahead.

 

Why anyone would go to this thing, is beyond my imagination. Obviously the numbers of participation don't matter to anyone. If it did, no one would go, they would go elsewhere seeking answers to growth and prosperity.

 

It's all about making coin to US Sailing. I'll bet that Clean doesn't get a free entry, I bet they make the speakers at the event pay the $225 entry fee. Such a deal.

 

Both Mer and I are free, but you're right that it wasn't easy to make that happen and we had to rely on 'media' status rather than as speakers. But SA is paying for our hotel, and I used air miles...

 

Like I said at the YC Summit, there is some progress happening here; the question is: Will I die before it yields fruit? I'm 41 BTW...

 

If they do this whole thing again and don't have really good coverage of it, it will be a big waste of time. But if you think they made a big effort to get 'media' there, you'd be wrong. In fact it was my e-mail to them more than 6 months ago that precipitated the panel I am on. If we left it alone, the whole thing would have gone by unnoticed.

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I'll be there...Hopefully this snow storm in the NE doesn't hold up my flight tomorrow night out of BOS...

 

US Sailing sent the girl running the app out a day early because of that concern.

 

Clean, they're at least trying to bring in the right people for the job. Rather than having some fogey running the app it's an active college sailor friend of mine who lives in the dorms with me.

 

I know they are trying, and I am trying to give them some benefit of the doubt. But as I wrote, it is all a bit painful to watch.

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My club is sending the head of the junior program. She is chasing away kids and families from the junior program by only being interested in racing. She calls those kids aged 7-10 not as interested in racing the "baby sitting sailing club". I don't hold out much hope.

So are you volunteering to run the baby sitting sailing club? Programmes tend to achieve only what they set out to achieve: no reason why you shouldn't have two with different aims running alongside each other.

I run a business and don't have time to run a junior program. I do take the week off work and volunteer everyday at our junior camp though. Also, working with another club to start a junior program that focuses on fun, sailing skills ans safety.

There is no way to run a parallel junior program without causing an even bigger rift at our club between dingy sailors and big boat racers and cruisers

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US Sailing sent the girl running the app out a day early because ... she lives in the dorms with me.

fixed it for ya

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Clean Hit me up when get in !!!

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My club is sending the head of the junior program. She is chasing away kids and families from the junior program by only being interested in racing. She calls those kids aged 7-10 not as interested in racing the "baby sitting sailing club". I don't hold out much hope.

If she is a club employee, fire her and replace her. Otherwise, if she is a member, publically and vocally challenge her ....and encourage other parents to do the same.

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Clean: Tom Dammrich is still running NMMA. I suppose he'll be there.

You might also see Ben Wold, Exec VP who is in charge of boat shows,

and Carl Blackwell, their PR/Communications VP who runs Discover

Boating/Welcome to the Water. And Sail America is having a Board of

Directors meeting co-located with the event so you might see some

industry folks there as well. Kenny Read was on the Sail America Board

but I think he passed his seat to Kimo.

 

Setting aside money for community sailing folks to make the meeting has been

a joke in the past. They promise the money and then don't make good, and

give the surplus in the community sailing budget to Offshore. Like someone

once said at a US Sailing Finance Committee meeting they have a tendency to

balance the books on the backs of inner city kids.

 

Good luck.

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is this US ailing leadership forum where US Ailing tells us all to drink their koolaid and then ask for money to support US ailing?? with no say in how this organization is run?? oh yeah....

 

The fundamental flaw in any US Sailing run event: It's run for the rich.

 

We'll do our best to dig deeper. We're usually pretty good at that.

Run BY the rich - really?

 

Or run by "sailmakers" with very high touch service models that only work for rich customers and therefore are only interested in "progress" in that direction???

 

Who's the keynote again? A rich guy or someone who sells to rich guys?

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Well the Sun is out temp is bearable in the Sunshine but like facking 73 in the Shade

 

Its just about Happyhour and im in the mood to buy a round

 

But Clean aint checked in yet :-0

 

Does this event have a Blotter yet ???

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there is a panel discussion on PHRF, that should be made into a movie

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My club is sending the head of the junior program. She is chasing away kids and families from the junior program by only being interested in racing. She calls those kids aged 7-10 not as interested in racing the "baby sitting sailing club". I don't hold out much hope.

Penname, please post pictures of her tits so I can decide if i want to go..otherwise I can fix her up with our head

instructor, A minister of some weird southern religion, who will not stop calling everyone "Sir" constantly...should be a

great pair

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Let's think about this. In my humble opinion, under U.S. Sailing's direction (and it's predecessor USYRU), sail boat racing has been on the decline for 35 years. In that same time U.S. Sailing has developed numerous programs which they will be selling those programs and services to the people who come to the Leadership Summit.

 

The experts at shrinking sailing will convince others to help shrink sailing too. Jump on the bandwagon everyone! All aboard, full speed ahead.

 

Why anyone would go to this thing, is beyond my imagination. Obviously the numbers of participation don't matter to anyone. If it did, no one would go, they would go elsewhere seeking answers to growth and prosperity.

 

It's all about making coin to US Sailing. I'll bet that Clean doesn't get a free entry, I bet they make the speakers at the event pay the $225 entry fee. Such a deal.

 

Both Mer and I are free, but you're right that it wasn't easy to make that happen and we had to rely on 'media' status rather than as speakers. But SA is paying for our hotel, and I used air miles...

 

Like I said at the YC Summit, there is some progress happening here; the question is: Will I die before it yields fruit? I'm 41 BTW...

 

If they do this whole thing again and don't have really good coverage of it, it will be a big waste of time. But if you think they made a big effort to get 'media' there, you'd be wrong. In fact it was my e-mail to them more than 6 months ago that precipitated the panel I am on. If we left it alone, the whole thing would have gone by unnoticed.

 

Wow, they're slipping. Usually they charge everyone and their brother to go to any of their meetings. Someone needs to wake up in Portsmouth, figure this out and back bill you and the others for making your presentations. They're leaving thousands on the table.

 

Can't see going to an event to teach me how to shrink sailing, from the experts who have successfully shrunk sailing in the past 35 years. It is sad to think of all of these people who have gone to this thing, who will come back to their clubs as "experts" who were taught the US Sailing business model on how to exert massive control over everything, while simultaneously turning people off and sending them away from the sport. It sure is counter-intuitive what US Sailing professes based on the real numbers of participation in the country.

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ask anybody who is a RSAC rep how things are going.......

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As always the only thing im interested in is what USS is doing to promote high performance sailing/dinghies for youth and adults. Are they going to do anything substantial with 29er worlds coming to the continent this summer? etc.

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Like I said at the YC Summit, there is some progress happening here; the question is: Will I die before it yields fruit? I'm 41 BTW...

It ain't the age, it's the mileage, brother. You ain't made out of vagina; at some point you are going to show the amount and type of mileage. We all do.

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I'll be there - actually on the way there. Paying my own way 100%. Wasn't offered and didn't ask for help. Will try to offer some help if I can.

 

If you have an issue with how it is run, which has been the majority of the case here on SA, step up and help. Throwing crap from the outside doesn't do you or them any good.

 

LZ

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Those that are there...please post a summary/feedback of the different tracks if possible. Clean...Video/Interviews???

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If you have an issue with how it is run, which has been the majority of the case here on SA, step up and help. Throwing crap from the outside doesn't do you or them any good.

 

LZ

 

 

when the president of uss paid a surprise visit to our club in december, one of the questions asked of him was "does uss have plans to open a west coast office and staff it properly to support the other half of the country?" the answer was "no"

 

so how exactly would one help them when they refuse to help themselves?

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Keep it coming. I am going on stage in an hour and all this helps. Also keep cementing because I will be doing a pile of interviews throughout and posting on SA Facebook.

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I'll be there - actually on the way there. Paying my own way 100%. Wasn't offered and didn't ask for help. Will try to offer some help if I can.

 

If you have an issue with how it is run, which has been the majority of the case here on SA, step up and help. Throwing crap from the outside doesn't do you or them any good.

 

LZ

I have been a US Sailing member for many years. I am currently my YRA President AND a US Sailing RSAC rep. US Ailing does NOT want our opinions, our input nor our suggestions to promote sailing. They want our $$.

 

Associations/clubs/ and the like can be run 2 different ways.

 

1. the membership grows from within, it's strength lies IN the membership. It listens to WHAT the membership needs. It supports the membership. Representatives are chosen from the membership. Membership money helps run the Association.

 

2. A business model where the membership pay their money and are told what to do, with nary a say in how it is run.

 

which way does US Ailing run?

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I'll be there - actually on the way there. Paying my own way 100%. Wasn't offered and didn't ask for help. Will try to offer some help if I can.

 

If you have an issue with how it is run, which has been the majority of the case here on SA, step up and help. Throwing crap from the outside doesn't do you or them any good.

 

LZ

With all respect to those that try, they don't appear to want the help. Especially not from us peons that only sail the fucking things. Open forums, from people that actually want to listen and are empowered to act would be a great first step. Get some youth involved. Successful organizations listen to their customers, but then I rarely get the impression that that is what USS considers us.

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this is funny

 

Dawn Riley - How is it possible that a person at the US Sailing Leadership Forum just called the Olympics a "shitshow". Completely inappropriate 12 minutes ago

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I'll be there - actually on the way there. Paying my own way 100%. Wasn't offered and didn't ask for help. Will try to offer some help if I can.

 

If you have an issue with how it is run, which has been the majority of the case here on SA, step up and help. Throwing crap from the outside doesn't do you or them any good.

 

LZ

I have been a US Sailing member for many years. I am currently my YRA President AND a US Sailing RSAC rep. US Ailing does NOT want our opinions, our input nor our suggestions to promote sailing. They want our $$.

 

Associations/clubs/ and the like can be run 2 different ways.

 

1. the membership grows from within, it's strength lies IN the membership. It listens to WHAT the membership needs. It supports the membership. Representatives are chosen from the membership. Membership money helps run the Association.

 

2. A business model where the membership pay their money and are told what to do, with nary a say in how it is run.

 

which way does US Ailing run?

 

Dacapo and I are both on the US Sailing Regional Sailing Area Committee, and both are our RSA Commodore/President. He has hinted at what transpired in the background over the past two months within US Sailing, and I will provide it without beating around the bush. The RSA's made it very clear that they wanted to select the new position of the Area Representatives. The Board made it very clear that they wanted to select the new position of Area Representatives. They gave their explanation why, and the RSA folks gave their reasons why. The proverbial Mexican stand-off. The Board finally said, "We win" and it was over. US Sailing did not listen to the people in the trenches, they did what they wanted. This led to the Chair of the Regional Sailing Association Committee to resign immediately in protest. The new Chair (who I have not talked to, but heard from a reliable source) is already overwhelmed with the Boards demands, and not having the opportunity to have the Board hear the sailors interests or work towards serving the sailor.

 

I look at all of this from a much different perspective. NAYRU was formed by yacht clubs to provide standards in racing over 100 years ago. Through the years the organization evolved into what US Sailing is today. That evolution continued to grow addressing many other constituencies, to the point where the bylaw change of close to a decade ago, threw the yacht clubs and RSA's under the bus. The 50+ percent control of the votes they had is now miniscule and a minority voting position.

 

The solution is not elaborate, all it takes is for the RSA's to form a new Union and de-attach themselves from US Sailing. One that addresses just the needs of the RSAs and the clubs they represent. The time has come.

 

Think hard about this dacapo and call me anytime to discuss all of the pro's and I can't think of any con's.

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I'll be there - actually on the way there. Paying my own way 100%. Wasn't offered and didn't ask for help. Will try to offer some help if I can.

 

If you have an issue with how it is run, which has been the majority of the case here on SA, step up and help. Throwing crap from the outside doesn't do you or them any good.

 

LZ

I have been a US Sailing member for many years. I am currently my YRA President AND a US Sailing RSAC rep. US Ailing does NOT want our opinions, our input nor our suggestions to promote sailing. They want our $$.

 

Associations/clubs/ and the like can be run 2 different ways.

 

1. the membership grows from within, it's strength lies IN the membership. It listens to WHAT the membership needs. It supports the membership. Representatives are chosen from the membership. Membership money helps run the Association.

 

2. A business model where the membership pay their money and are told what to do, with nary a say in how it is run.

 

which way does US Ailing run?

 

Dacapo and I are both on the US Sailing Regional Sailing Area Committee, and both are our RSA Commodore/President. He has hinted at what transpired in the background over the past two months within US Sailing, and I will provide it without beating around the bush. The RSA's made it very clear that they wanted to select the new position of the Area Representatives. The Board made it very clear that they wanted to select the new position of Area Representatives. They gave their explanation why, and the RSA folks gave their reasons why. The proverbial Mexican stand-off. The Board finally said, "We win" and it was over. US Sailing did not listen to the people in the trenches, they did what they wanted. This led to the Chair of the Regional Sailing Association Committee to resign immediately in protest. The new Chair (who I have not talked to, but heard from a reliable source) is already overwhelmed with the Boards demands, and not having the opportunity to have the Board hear the sailors interests or work towards serving the sailor.

 

I look at all of this from a much different perspective. NAYRU was formed by yacht clubs to provide standards in racing over 100 years ago. Through the years the organization evolved into what US Sailing is today. That evolution continued to grow addressing many other constituencies, to the point where the bylaw change of close to a decade ago, threw the yacht clubs and RSA's under the bus. The 50+ percent control of the votes they had is now miniscule and a minority voting position.

 

The solution is not elaborate, all it takes is for the RSA's to form a new Union and de-attach themselves from US Sailing. One that addresses just the needs of the RSAs and the clubs they represent. The time has come.

 

Think hard about this dacapo and call me anytime to discuss all of the pro's and I can't think of any con's.

i think about what we as sailors need all the time....but the current way US Sailing is run is NOT for the majority of US Sailors.

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The vast majority of racing sailors in the US do not need Us sailing. Asking them to change falls under the heading of you better be careful what you wish for.

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I'll be there - actually on the way there. Paying my own way 100%. Wasn't offered and didn't ask for help. Will try to offer some help if I can.

 

If you have an issue with how it is run, which has been the majority of the case here on SA, step up and help. Throwing crap from the outside doesn't do you or them any good.

 

LZ

I have been a US Sailing member for many years. I am currently my YRA President AND a US Sailing RSAC rep. US Ailing does NOT want our opinions, our input nor our suggestions to promote sailing. They want our $$.

 

Associations/clubs/ and the like can be run 2 different ways.

 

1. the membership grows from within, it's strength lies IN the membership. It listens to WHAT the membership needs. It supports the membership. Representatives are chosen from the membership. Membership money helps run the Association.

 

2. A business model where the membership pay their money and are told what to do, with nary a say in how it is run.

 

which way does US Ailing run?

 

Dacapo and I are both on the US Sailing Regional Sailing Area Committee, and both are our RSA Commodore/President. He has hinted at what transpired in the background over the past two months within US Sailing, and I will provide it without beating around the bush. The RSA's made it very clear that they wanted to select the new position of the Area Representatives. The Board made it very clear that they wanted to select the new position of Area Representatives. They gave their explanation why, and the RSA folks gave their reasons why. The proverbial Mexican stand-off. The Board finally said, "We win" and it was over. US Sailing did not listen to the people in the trenches, they did what they wanted. This led to the Chair of the Regional Sailing Association Committee to resign immediately in protest. The new Chair (who I have not talked to, but heard from a reliable source) is already overwhelmed with the Boards demands, and not having the opportunity to have the Board hear the sailors interests or work towards serving the sailor.

 

I look at all of this from a much different perspective. NAYRU was formed by yacht clubs to provide standards in racing over 100 years ago. Through the years the organization evolved into what US Sailing is today. That evolution continued to grow addressing many other constituencies, to the point where the bylaw change of close to a decade ago, threw the yacht clubs and RSA's under the bus. The 50+ percent control of the votes they had is now miniscule and a minority voting position.

 

The solution is not elaborate, all it takes is for the RSA's to form a new Union and de-attach themselves from US Sailing. One that addresses just the needs of the RSAs and the clubs they represent. The time has come.

 

Think hard about this dacapo and call me anytime to discuss all of the pro's and I can't think of any con's.

I have called for a break up of USS for many years.

 

As a Disabled Sailor USS has seen fit to make decisions to keep the Paralympic regattas back East.

Every Decision that USS has made regarding Paralympic Sailing has been to the determent of the West Coast Disabled Sailor.

I have tried to talk Regional but USS says it is up to local programs to promote. Yet they continue to make decisions that benefit the East Coast.

If USS can't even build at the lowest levels on a national level, how can they think big??

 

The US is a Union of States (really counties) where the States have control over their territory, much like the EU.

Why cannot ISAF look at the US like it does the EU?

I would like to see every state have it's own Authority to Govern Sailing within their borders.

But we all have to follow the rules of ISAF, much like the EU.

 

All I can say is the powers that reside in Newport RI know nothing about the people in my area and they do not care.

 

But they have a token meeting in SD and all is well...................YAWN

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The vast majority of racing sailors in the US do not need Us sailing. Asking them to change falls under the heading of you better be careful what you wish for.

ta da..

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Mr. Clean,

 

Nice job at the conference today. But as is always the case, the seminars I went to had talking heads at the front and no real open discussion or dialog with crowd. The other thing I notice is, that after attending a similar conference in Long Beach two years ago, US Failing continues to talk about diversity but does not have one person of color speaking. US Failing continues to throw its little parties at places that the average person can't afford to hang out at. Have they ever thought of having a meeting at an inner city high school, maybe a community center instead of yacht clubs and Hilton's of the world.

Just Saying

 

And for the reason I go to these things, is that I represent a small community sailing program and I need to make personal contact with the industry to help with fundraising. The other reason is to tell the story of our program in Eugene, OR that is doing everything we can to get anybody who isn't a white male on the water for free or low cost.

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Just to add to the shit show here in Mission Bay. The road to the resort will be closed Saturday until 10am for a marathon. So we have no way to get there or park anywhere nearby. Way to go US Failing!

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Mr. Clean,

 

Nice job at the conference today. But as is always the case, the seminars I went to had talking heads at the front and no real open discussion or dialog with crowd. The other thing I notice is, that after attending a similar conference in Long Beach two years ago, US Failing continues to talk about diversity but does not have one person of color speaking. US Failing continues to throw its little parties at places that the average person can't afford to hang out at. Have they ever thought of having a meeting at an inner city high school, maybe a community center instead of yacht clubs and Hilton's of the world.

Just Saying

 

And for the reason I go to these things, is that I represent a small community sailing program and I need to make personal contact with the industry to help with fundraising. The other reason is to tell the story of our program in Eugene, OR that is doing everything we can to get anybody who isn't a white male on the water for free or low cost.

 

I find it quiet interesting you think think mr clean is doing a great job but you also give no credit to Us sailing all in the same paragraph . ?? You say you go to there to make contact with people to help your programme both financially and other ways which I applaud but why would you insult the organization that may hopefully help your club and support clean who is only there to to get a story and not support out governing body US SAILING

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Just to add to the shit show here in Mission Bay. The road to the resort will be closed Saturday until 10am for a marathon. So we have no way to get there or park anywhere nearby. Way to go US Failing!

Sail over to the hotel from mission bay YC.

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Free Breakfast at SD Harley just up Morena Blvd till 11AM

 

How TF can they close off a Major Hotel from the Freeway All SAT Morning for Tinkerbell or sum such ??

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Mr. Clean,

 

Nice job at the conference today. But as is always the case, the seminars I went to had talking heads at the front and no real open discussion or dialog with crowd. The other thing I notice is, that after attending a similar conference in Long Beach two years ago, US Failing continues to talk about diversity but does not have one person of color speaking. US Failing continues to throw its little parties at places that the average person can't afford to hang out at. Have they ever thought of having a meeting at an inner city high school, maybe a community center instead of yacht clubs and Hilton's of the world.

Just Saying

 

And for the reason I go to these things, is that I represent a small community sailing program and I need to make personal contact with the industry to help with fundraising. The other reason is to tell the story of our program in Eugene, OR that is doing everything we can to get anybody who isn't a white male on the water for free or low cost.

 

I find it quiet interesting you think think mr clean is doing a great job but you also give no credit to Us sailing all in the same paragraph . ?? You say you go to there to make contact with people to help your programme both financially and other ways which I applaud but why would you insult the organization that may hopefully help your club and support clean who is only there to to get a story and not support out governing body US SAILING

You think I actually prepared answers, paid my own way to fly across the country, and then spoke on a panel in front of a standing room only crowd to 'get a story and not support out [sic] governing body US SAILING'? Are you a bit...umm...challenged?

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Not only do they not want our input, they don't want to provide services

even if you paid your dues. For over 3 years, that I know about-then I

gave up, I paid dues to US Sailing, but they never entered me in their

member data base. On several occasions I spoke with the membership director

who personally and in front of me told me he would confirm my membership,

would go into the database and I wouldn't be there. This is after he

personally took my check 2 years previously. He could not explain it.

Then I found out I wasn't the only one. Further as a regional One-Design

Class officer at the time I was responsible for making sure regatta

entrants were US Sailing members, and US Sailing told me they had no

way to provide that data. How can US Sailing claim to be a membership

organization when it only takes people's money and never makes them members ?

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stan should have a couple good shows this morning. good presenter

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And the one African American and one of the two Latino's are from what City? Bonus question - what town hosts the most African American sailing and racing club in the country?

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Chi-Raq?

 

Winner winner chicken dinner on all three counts. And we are very proud of Lou and Joey who are in San Diego, two great promoters of sailing.

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Clean-Good job on the interview with Lou Sandoval.

Just a note. The person heading up the Chicago

Park District Sailing Programs and the Judd

Goldman Program which Lou mentions is Joey Harris.

Another pioneer. You might try to grab him if he's

there. (Hint he was also sailing master of

Columbia YC and coach at Cal Maritime)

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To help boost diversity in Sailing Each Attendee has been given 24 Homeless to take back home to get involved ;)

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Joey is one heck of a nice guy, always smiling. Local working with locals, I like the sound of that !

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It's been a great conference so far. The seminars are all very interesting no matter the topic. The sharing of ideas between the clubs and sailing associations here is the most valuable thing. People are here from all over and all kinds of different organizations; and we're all learning from each other. Everyone here is enthusiastic about the sport and improving it. All are eager to share what has worked for their club/org and what hasn't.

 

For all that are saying how useless US Sailing is, and are currently sitting at home not participating in this event; I'll challenge you to come out to the next forum(whenever that is) and be active in improving our sport. The more the merrier and more fruitful these events are.

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why does this shit have to be at a conference? why cant people just come on to SA and tell us what has worked for their "club" and what hasn't?

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why does this shit have to be at a conference? why cant people just come on to SA and tell us what has worked for their "club" and what hasn't?

 

Hard to get 5 people on a SA forum at once...never mind 600. But anyways...what do you want to know?

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This has been pretty useful so far. Some good info - nothing momentous but useful, especially for the newer or older worker bees. Went to one today that was complete waste of time, and some of the information is really just disguised self promo for the speaker - US Sailing needs to do a better job weeding out those to make sure people get what they need and don't miss a good seminar to attend one with a catchy title and crappy content. But so far, that's one bad one out of like 6.

 

Definitely good for networking, advertising, and seeing some old friends. A lot of money for that, but I think worth it.

 

US Sailing has a lot to learn but it certainly appears they are on the right path in everything.

 

I'll be interviewing Jack Gierhart Exec Dir. tomorrow.

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I'v Always said DAGO Sucks but this week is Redickulas as it Facking Sprinkled last night and is Friggin KOLD Tonight (Low/Mid 60's)

 

Well I felt Sooo Bad I let Mr CLEAN take my Iron Horse for a Spin to Warm-Up (He Did Good !!!)

 

No Socks, No Helmet, No Problem :o:o:o:oB)

 

CLEANHD.jpg

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why does this shit have to be at a conference? why cant people just come on to SA and tell us what has worked for their "club" and what hasn't?

If you have ever attended a good conference on any topic (live, in person) as compared to a conference call or online bulletin board you would know the answer to that question. Or, for that matter, if you have ever had a good, in person conversation with a live human being as opposed to an e-mail exchange you would realize that one is not a satisfactory replacement for the other.

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No broad comment on the Read speech but I agree with two things he said.

 

1 If there's going to be a future for sailing, we need to embrace more "extreme" alternatives. I can't believe the sailors who say they'd actually rather watch 12-meters race vs foiling AC72s. Maybe kids can learn in Optis, but they have to have a lot more exciting progression of boats to look forward to. Sailing is competing with extreme sports like it or not for kids, young adults and maybe even later in life.

2 I didn't realize it, but I'd welcome more Port to Port or alternative courses and fewer W/L's.

 

Owning/sailing offshore boats has gone from elitist to more mainstream and it's headed back towards elitist now.

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No broad comment on the Read speech but I agree with two things he said.

 

1 If there's going to be a future for sailing, we need to embrace more "extreme" alternatives. I can't believe the sailors who say they'd actually rather watch 12-meters race vs foiling AC72s. Maybe kids can learn in Optis, but they have to have a lot more exciting progression of boats to look forward to. Sailing is competing with extreme sports like it or not for kids, young adults and maybe even later in life.

2 I didn't realize it, but I'd welcome more Port to Port or alternative courses and fewer W/L's.

 

Owning/sailing offshore boats has gone from elitist to more mainstream and it's headed back towards elitist now.

 

 

well, i wasn't there.., so i didn't hear the talk..

 

but - define "extreme"...

 

to me extreme means real risk to life an limb... true extreme sports tend to have a pretty small number of participants.

 

we are currently experiencing an explosion in the number of higher performance boats across all sizes, and i don't really see any actual opposition to this trend from the "establishment"

 

there are more and more regattas focused on these boats, and more and more regattas with slower boats are offering starts to these boats.

 

i probably wouldn't call any of the classes extreme - but that's probably a good thing

 

all that's needed now, is for more people to actually buy the boats...

 

and that's really the way it should work - i'm not really in favor of a top-down directive from the sailing establishment that sailing should be more extreme - let people buy the boats they want to sail.., and if they end up being "extreme" - that;s fine with me.., a nd i'm sure there will be plenty of racing opportunities for them.

 

or are you after something more "extreme" than what's currently available?

 

can you give me an example of an extreme sport that we should model ourselves after?

 

 

edit - maybe i should note that i windsurf and kite and race sportboats - so i'm not opposed to performance sailing at all - not that i would call any of those activities "extreme"

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I just watched Kenny's speech. He brought up many issues or problems with the sport as it is today. There is only ONE 800 lb., gorilla. Find a way to change that and sailing has the potential to become as mainstream as riding a bicycle. Cost. Everything else is a symptom.

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MoMP there are dozens of community sailing programs here that have figured out that cost isn't really the problem, because there are tons of cheap boats out there and every city has places to go where you can sail for very little.

The problem is that for more than two decades, the relationship between the public and sailing has disappeared, and there was almost no pipeline for new folks to go sailing. While the baby boomers aged, the vacuum left by the lack of communication, outreach, marketing, and everything else turned into a gaping hole, and the foundation upon which the baby boom racers were built - hundreds of thousands of cheap Hobie Cats and Lasers and tons of affordable IOR boats and home builds and one designs - was gone. Without that foundation of sailors as a baseline population from which racers are drawn, there are simply not enough people around to go racing.

 

My thoughts, anyway. Cost, like the economy and like the available of time, are copouts that we tell ourselves to make ourselves feel better for letting the sport fall apart. That's what Nick Hayes found, anyway, when he debunked most of the myths with numbers, and he's way smarter than I am.

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I did a ton of sailing when I was not in a great financial position. I had a $500 Sunfish, spent $175 on the new 'racing' sail, and spent time working on my boat and boards. One thing that helped was meeting people. I was able to go to many regatta's by traveling with two or more that were doing the same event. At one time I was racing with a $50 boat and a $50 sail with a loaner racing daggerboard. Finished top ten in the Masters that year.

 

From there I was able to move onto bigger boats and regatta's, on an SORC winning boat, BOTY champ, and as many races as I could work-out to do. If I had not been a single dad I could have gone racing around the world with the contacts that I had made. And I am small fish in the scheme of things, but lucky to meet and sail with great people who were very generous. I am sure they are everywhere so the opportunities are out there. Then you can add-in SA and the people I have 'virtually' met in the AC forum, with opportunities that have come my way and also for my brother.

 

Cheap boats and fleets need to be made popular instead of having to sail the latest hot one-design. Many scoffed at the Sunfish, but how many top sailors spent time in the beater instead of a Laser, etc? JK is a past champion, a Rolex winner is also a many time class champ, along with others and although not the most high-tech boat it does have its quirks that, when mastered, can make you a good at racing many other boats. Interestingly enough, with its small board compared to sail area, it is a good platform to teach someone how to drive a modern boat with high aspect foils. You have to keep flow going over it or you are toast.

 

So, people/kids have to be able to get into, and understand that they can, sailing without being a Thurston Howell III. Making cheap boats 'cool' can make that happen.

 

Sorry for the long rant.

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The talk was linked in post #58 above, I wasn't there either. In the talk he mentioned how established sailors were very uncomfortable with the AC72s. And in local circles, most of my generation felt that way, some preferred 12-meters. I just can't imagine today's kids getting interested in 12-meters, can you? Fun to participate, but boring to watch for all but diehard sail/racers. I didn't mean extreme sailing literally, but much more in that direction - call it performance sailing then.

 

And cost is part of the problem IMO. Most adults don't want to sail Lasers or Hobies. A 25-35' family cruiser or race boat seems to have risen in price more than inflation, that's the issue.

 

Though we have different POVs, most of us want to see sailing flourish. Interesting we're debating how best to move forward, exactly as Ken Read said early in his keynote...

 

 

 

 

No broad comment on the Read speech but I agree with two things he said.

1 If there's going to be a future for sailing, we need to embrace more "extreme" alternatives. I can't believe the sailors who say they'd actually rather watch 12-meters race vs foiling AC72s. Maybe kids can learn in Optis, but they have to have a lot more exciting progression of boats to look forward to. Sailing is competing with extreme sports like it or not for kids, young adults and maybe even later in life.

2 I didn't realize it, but I'd welcome more Port to Port or alternative courses and fewer W/L's.

Owning/sailing offshore boats has gone from elitist to more mainstream and it's headed back towards elitist now.

 

well, i wasn't there.., so i didn't hear the talk..

 

but - define "extreme"...

 

to me extreme means real risk to life an limb... true extreme sports tend to have a pretty small number of participants.

 

we are currently experiencing an explosion in the number of higher performance boats across all sizes, and i don't really see any actual opposition to this trend from the "establishment"

 

there are more and more regattas focused on these boats, and more and more regattas with slower boats are offering starts to these boats.

 

i probably wouldn't call any of the classes extreme - but that's probably a good thing

 

all that's needed now, is for more people to actually buy the boats...

 

and that's really the way it should work - i'm not really in favor of a top-down directive from the sailing establishment that sailing should be more extreme - let people buy the boats they want to sail.., and if they end up being "extreme" - that;s fine with me.., a nd i'm sure there will be plenty of racing opportunities for them.

 

or are you after something more "extreme" than what's currently available?

 

can you give me an example of an extreme sport that we should model ourselves after?

 

 

edit - maybe i should note that i windsurf and kite and race sportboats - so i'm not opposed to performance sailing at all - not that i would call any of those activities "extreme"

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I just watched Kenny's speech. He brought up many issues or problems with the sport as it is today. There is only ONE 800 lb., gorilla. Find a way to change that and sailing has the potential to become as mainstream as riding a bicycle. Cost. Everything else is a symptom.

 

Marcel Bich.., the Baron Bich.., and founder of the Bic company - maker of pens, razors, and windsurfers, as well as the financial backer of various french america's cup campaigns.., referred to windsurfers as "the bicycles of the sea", and saw windsurfing as a way to bring sailing to the masses.

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Community sailing centers are band aids or at best teasers. That's not an insult at all. I learned how to sail at Community Boating in Boston for $1.00 a season. That was the beginning on a lifetime addiction, which I am hugely thankful for.

 

The problem as I see it is you graduate from the sailing centers. You want new challenges, that aren't available at the sailing centers. Sure you sail OPBs, buy that $500.00 Hobie 16. Realize it costs $2000.00 to own your $500.00 boat and so on and so on.

 

When I bought my boat (see avatar), the closest alternative was a 20+ year old F-24 mk-1 for $27,000. It was close to 3x what I paid. So I got a somewhat fast, foldable trimaran that I'm having huge fun with. The purchase price is only a part of the overall cost. The ongoing ownership expense is the hidden trap. When line costs $2.00 a ft. A simple bullet block is $20.00 ea., wear and tear items like sails can approach the purchase price of some boats., etc.

 

I'm not complaining about the costs. I'm invested into a lifestyle and enjoy all of the different aspects of my involvement; racing, day sailing, upgrading, etc. when I actually think about it as a middle class citizen and think of the money I've spent, it's crazy. Now, look at Mr and Mrs. jones who are aware of the sailing program in their town at the local YC and think they'd love to see Jr learn how to sail. Then the reality of joining the club, buying an Opti, outfitting both Jr and the Opti, committing to a schedule that makes being a hockey parent look simple, without having their own passion to pass on and their commitment is dead in the water.

 

If the cost can be controlled (and I don't believe it can), then sailing will flourish. It can't so it won't. We'll continue talking about the symptoms of the problem. Hey, the no cure for the common cold either.......

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It's been a great conference so far. The seminars are all very interesting no matter the topic. The sharing of ideas between the clubs and sailing associations here is the most valuable thing. People are here from all over and all kinds of different organizations; and we're all learning from each other. Everyone here is enthusiastic about the sport and improving it. All are eager to share what has worked for their club/org and what hasn't.

w

For all that are saying how useless US Sailing is, and are currently sitting at home not participating in this event; I'll challenge you to come out to the next forum(whenever that is) and be active in improving our sport. The more the merrier and more fruitful these events are.

That assumes that the people here aren't working to improve the sport, and couldn't be farther from the truth. In fact, the opposite is probably true. Most people here are passionate about the sport and moving it forward, and are frustrated with the way things are run, the lack of any real progress, and the ivory tower mentality.

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To late to edit the earlier post, but I should add that while the cost of a new 25'+ sailboat has become an issue, the reasons are largely outside the control of boat builders. Real wages have declined relative to most items (not just boats), raw material costs have hit builders harder than some industries, volume is down overall (which increases fixed costs) and boats are chasing scarcer disposable income. Cost is a tough nut...it's not an excuse.

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While I was not at this "conference" I have been to a number of

previous US Sailing conferences and a few Annual General Meetings.

Also have friends and co-workers attending so I am getting regular

reports, and will get more upon their return.

 

Here at SA we are focused on sailboat racing. One issue is that sailboat

racers, while they use their boats more often than non-racers, purchase

the vast majority of gear and equipment because they wear it out, and

are far more visible and vocal than other sailors, are still a very small

(often estimated at 10%) part of the sport of sailing.

 

Very few of the manufactures up and down the supply chain focus on racing.

We have Melges, J Boats (and their partners), which now includes C&C, and

some custom and semi custom shops. Same is true for the gear folks. If

the rest of the industry only focused on the racing sailor they'd be out of

business.

 

And until recently, US Sailing has focused on getting people, beginning with

juniors at yacht clubs, into what has been called "the ladder system". Maybe

this conference, along with the initiative started at the breakfast meeting at

Strictly Sail Chicago with US Sailing, NMMA, Sail America and others is

finally the critical mass needed to address the entirety of sailing in order

to grow the sport.

 

People may start off as day sailors in their 25 to 35 foot cruisers. But out on

the water, we know they are trying to go faster than the next boat. And if we

offer them interesting racing opportunities that don't require a bunch of tight

mark roundings, but instead offer interesting destinations and social events,

we'll see them turn into racers. Extreme sailing racers ? No. But they will

sign up and participate.

 

Our challenge is to first get them into a boat, a program, a welcoming community

so that they can learn not only how to sail, but learn about the fun we have on

the water doing what we love.

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I agree, and I actually think that Ken Read touched on all of that well, especially by pointing out his own experience becoming involved with sailing with his family. He didn't start out going to Opti events as they now exist. Sure they're fun on some level, but it's sad that tons of kids only know sailing through this prism, and have not been allowed the whole messing about in boats part that is really the most important and enduring thing. The messing about in boats aspect is what keeps people involved, and ultimately leads to careers like Ken Read's (not that one needs to take their interest that far). I take racing very seriously, and I do it a lot, but I am just as happy to go cruising for a month and worry about my anchor and cormorants shitting on my deck, and it's a beautiful thing!

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got some great info on the New Cubed (Comanche) from Clark and Read - Not sure which name it will end up as. I have Clark's speech on camera - it's interesting for sure.

 

100 feet LOA

27 feet max beam

145 feet mast, swept

30 tons

VERY deep keel, 40-ish degrees of cant

Conventional daggers (straight, maybe a bit of cant)

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Community sailing centers are band aids or at best teasers. That's not an insult at all. I learned how to sail at Community Boating in Boston for $1.00 a season. That was the beginning on a lifetime addiction, which I am hugely thankful for.

 

The problem as I see it is you graduate from the sailing centers. You want new challenges, that aren't available at the sailing centers. Sure you sail OPBs, buy that $500.00 Hobie 16. Realize it costs $2000.00 to own your $500.00 boat and so on and so on.

 

When I bought my boat (see avatar), the closest alternative was a 20+ year old F-24 mk-1 for $27,000. It was close to 3x what I paid. So I got a somewhat fast, foldable trimaran that I'm having huge fun with. The purchase price is only a part of the overall cost. The ongoing ownership expense is the hidden trap. When line costs $2.00 a ft. A simple bullet block is $20.00 ea., wear and tear items like sails can approach the purchase price of some boats., etc.

 

I'm not complaining about the costs. I'm invested into a lifestyle and enjoy all of the different aspects of my involvement; racing, day sailing, upgrading, etc. when I actually think about it as a middle class citizen and think of the money I've spent, it's crazy. Now, look at Mr and Mrs. jones who are aware of the sailing program in their town at the local YC and think they'd love to see Jr learn how to sail. Then the reality of joining the club, buying an Opti, outfitting both Jr and the Opti, committing to a schedule that makes being a hockey parent look simple, without having their own passion to pass on and their commitment is dead in the water.

 

If the cost can be controlled (and I don't believe it can), then sailing will flourish. It can't so it won't. We'll continue talking about the symptoms of the problem. Hey, the no cure for the common cold either.......

If what you said is right, the entire world would be suffering too. And at least in places like France, UK, Holland, Aus - they are not.

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Insult US Failing, doubt it. Heckle, probably. Respected, always. I run a community sailing program and firmly believe that the fun we create, the values we pass on and the positive environment we provide, does a tremendous job of creating new and life long sailors, but also good citizens that will be assets to the communities they live in. Are we creating Olympic sailors, maybe. Are we creating racers, maybe. Are we creating a place that encourages youth to appreciate/respect the environment and be an active participant in it, YES! If they choose sailing, cool. If they choose an active lifestyle, we all win. Please understand that I believe that any organization's most valuable asset is not it's buildings or the amount of money in the back, or the property they own, or the number of members they have today. I would argue, the youth in their programs. All the other stuff can burn down, be taken away, die of old age, but can only be rebuilt and raised from the ashes if youth have been valued and respected from day one in the organization. The youth that organization has valued will come back as members in the future, help raise money to rebuild will inspire others to help them rekindle their passion. Long live the youth!

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I sure expected a lot more video from Clean. Did US Sailing shut Clean down?

 

I watched Kenny, at first in complete disbelief "There's two new 100-footers being built on the East Coast currently - sailing is coming back strong!" Wow, probably $1,500,000 order for North Sails for those two builds, and that means the US racing population is all fixed now? Maybe he didn't read that the rich got richer over the past 10 years, and doesn't realize those are the people he is surrounded with, but there's not much happening in the middle class in boat buying.

 

His enthusiasm for the AC and how is has non-sailors abuzz was interesting. I got the impression he thinks its the cat's pajamas, I see it that any sport who gets its 15 minutes of fame (isn't that what it was?) will generate a buzz in the public, some may give it a try, most wont. But that 15 minutes is over, it doesn't come back for another 3 to 4 years. So there's a blip on the radar for a short while.

 

Then he backed off after 15 minutes talking about the high-end of racing and had some reasonable (but only described one half of the solution) ideas how to get racing back on track for the last 25 minutes of his talk. Anyone who says "THIS is the solution," does not understand that it cannot be one-thing. It has to be addressed at least at three different levels simultaneously. The one-button solutions don't exist.

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^^^^^ Clean was Free to roam about and attend as he pleased

 

Never saw Clean at the Bar (Restaurant Yes But Not at any of the Bars)

 

I like how at the Friday Night Tent Party they rolled away the cart with the Water & Ice Tea

 

& Left the Bars OPEN another hour + :o

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DB, I've seen Read speak a few times since the Cup and I've come away with the sense that the 15 minutes of buzz is substantially better than what the sport was getting in the past. The '03 and '07 Cups may have had a lot more participants but, at least in the United States, despite having a channel airing just about all of the racing, they didn't even generate that blip.

 

I don't think he was trying to say one particular thing was the solution, I think what he was trying to say was, the big guys are building boats again, the Cup got a ton of attention, there are some interesting newer designs out there that are having great uptake (J/70 for example) and all of these things are encouraging signs.

 

On his point on exciting boats, I'd also tend to agree. I'm 28 and have only ever owned Lasers. I've spoken with friends about buying a boat to go around and race and raise hell, and while sure we could each toss in a grand and buy an IOR shit box, I can't find many people my age who are interested in doing so.

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I watched Kenny, at first in complete disbelief . . . . but there's not much happening in the middle class in boat buying.

Over the past 15 or 20 years North has chosen to be a part of the problem (to drive short term profits, in order to make the company value better for sale), when as a significant/dominant influence in the sport they could have chosen to be part of the solution (and grown long term profitability). As a responsible market leader they should have changed course, certainly at least after the recession, but choose to retrench in 'less of the same' instead. I was curious to see if Kenny recognizes that . . . he obviously does not. It's too bad, a missed opportunity for the sport. But it is not too surprising. North is owned by a 1%er who wants to sell, and the management team is almost entirely (but not quite) focused on the 1% programs and somewhat dismissive of the rest of us.

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There's already a bunch of video up, quite a bit more coming today as well as a fairly long report on the forum tonight. Overall a very positive meeting, and a very good vibe. Confirms what we have been saying for the past six months or so - sailing in the US is finally on the right foot, moving in the right direction. Plenty left to do, and always possible for a few years of mismanagement to screw things up, but both the industry and the growth model for the sport of sailing (with racing lagging somewhat because of obvious reasons) is getting fairly solid.

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Community sailing centers are band aids or at best teasers. That's not an insult at all. I learned how to sail at Community Boating in Boston for $1.00 a season. That was the beginning on a lifetime addiction, which I am hugely thankful for.

 

The problem as I see it is you graduate from the sailing centers. You want new challenges, that aren't available at the sailing centers. Sure you sail OPBs, buy that $500.00 Hobie 16. Realize it costs $2000.00 to own your $500.00 boat and so on and so on.

 

When I bought my boat (see avatar), the closest alternative was a 20+ year old F-24 mk-1 for $27,000. It was close to 3x what I paid. So I got a somewhat fast, foldable trimaran that I'm having huge fun with. The purchase price is only a part of the overall cost. The ongoing ownership expense is the hidden trap. When line costs $2.00 a ft. A simple bullet block is $20.00 ea., wear and tear items like sails can approach the purchase price of some boats., etc.

 

I'm not complaining about the costs. I'm invested into a lifestyle and enjoy all of the different aspects of my involvement; racing, day sailing, upgrading, etc. when I actually think about it as a middle class citizen and think of the money I've spent, it's crazy. Now, look at Mr and Mrs. jones who are aware of the sailing program in their town at the local YC and think they'd love to see Jr learn how to sail. Then the reality of joining the club, buying an Opti, outfitting both Jr and the Opti, committing to a schedule that makes being a hockey parent look simple, without having their own passion to pass on and their commitment is dead in the water.

 

If the cost can be controlled (and I don't believe it can), then sailing will flourish. It can't so it won't. We'll continue talking about the symptoms of the problem. Hey, the no cure for the common cold either.......

If what you said is right, the entire world would be suffering too. And at least in places like France, UK, Holland, Aus - they are not.

So France, UK, Holland and Aus are booming? BS! They may be gaining traction better than in the US, but sailing is nowhere near mainstream in any of those countries. Sorry dude. Waaaay the fuck off........

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I watched Kenny, at first in complete disbelief . . . . but there's not much happening in the middle class in boat buying.

Over the past 15 or 20 years North has chosen to be a part of the problem (to drive short term profits, in order to make the company value better for sale), when as a significant/dominant influence in the sport they could have chosen to be part of the solution (and grown long term profitability). I was curious to see if Kenny recognizes that . . . he obviously does not. It's too bad, a missed opportunity for the sport. But it is not too surprising. North is owned by a 1%er who wants to sell, and the management team is almost entirely (but not quite) focused on the 1% programs and somewhat dismissive of the rest of us.

 

Thank you for saying what every former North employee won't say.

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I watched Kenny, at first in complete disbelief . . . . but there's not much happening in the middle class in boat buying.

Over the past 15 or 20 years North has chosen to be a part of the problem (to drive short term profits, in order to make the company value better for sale), when as a significant/dominant influence in the sport they could have chosen to be part of the solution (and grown long term profitability). I was curious to see if Kenny recognizes that . . . he obviously does not. It's too bad, a missed opportunity for the sport. But it is not too surprising. North is owned by a 1%er who wants to sell, and the management team is almost entirely (but not quite) focused on the 1% programs and somewhat dismissive of the rest of us.

 

Thank you for saying what every former North employee won't say.

 

I'm curious what you would see them do? Cut R&D and invest heavily in advertising the virtue of returning to Dacron sails for all boats? They've done some cool stuff for the one design world.

 

I know it's the SA way to loudly and frequently proclaim a distaste for North but honestly though, what would you have North do, the margin is in the top end, the visibility is in the top end, the drive for innovation is in the top end.

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Community sailing centers are band aids or at best teasers. That's not an insult at all. I learned how to sail at Community Boating in Boston for $1.00 a season. That was the beginning on a lifetime addiction, which I am hugely thankful for.

 

The problem as I see it is you graduate from the sailing centers. You want new challenges, that aren't available at the sailing centers. Sure you sail OPBs, buy that $500.00 Hobie 16. Realize it costs $2000.00 to own your $500.00 boat and so on and so on.

 

When I bought my boat (see avatar), the closest alternative was a 20+ year old F-24 mk-1 for $27,000. It was close to 3x what I paid. So I got a somewhat fast, foldable trimaran that I'm having huge fun with. The purchase price is only a part of the overall cost. The ongoing ownership expense is the hidden trap. When line costs $2.00 a ft. A simple bullet block is $20.00 ea., wear and tear items like sails can approach the purchase price of some boats., etc.

 

I'm not complaining about the costs. I'm invested into a lifestyle and enjoy all of the different aspects of my involvement; racing, day sailing, upgrading, etc. when I actually think about it as a middle class citizen and think of the money I've spent, it's crazy. Now, look at Mr and Mrs. jones who are aware of the sailing program in their town at the local YC and think they'd love to see Jr learn how to sail. Then the reality of joining the club, buying an Opti, outfitting both Jr and the Opti, committing to a schedule that makes being a hockey parent look simple, without having their own passion to pass on and their commitment is dead in the water.

 

If the cost can be controlled (and I don't believe it can), then sailing will flourish. It can't so it won't. We'll continue talking about the symptoms of the problem. Hey, the no cure for the common cold either.......

If what you said is right, the entire world would be suffering too. And at least in places like France, UK, Holland, Aus - they are not.
But then you are back to the KR stuff... excitement. Too many old people controlling this sport. In France its more extreme machines and man against nature stuff or at least that what I walked away thinking.

 

So I will take Momp's cost and add KR excitement factor (lack thereof) to point to 2 major causes.

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why does this shit have to be at a conference? why cant people just come on to SA and tell us what has worked for their "club" and what hasn't?

 

A moderator. While the topics may not be what you were hoping for, they stay on point. Even Clean kept on his side of the line.

 

 

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I watched Kenny, at first in complete disbelief . . . . but there's not much happening in the middle class in boat buying.

Over the past 15 or 20 years North has chosen to be a part of the problem (to drive short term profits, in order to make the company value better for sale), when as a significant/dominant influence in the sport they could have chosen to be part of the solution (and grown long term profitability). I was curious to see if Kenny recognizes that . . . he obviously does not. It's too bad, a missed opportunity for the sport. But it is not too surprising. North is owned by a 1%er who wants to sell, and the management team is almost entirely (but not quite) focused on the 1% programs and somewhat dismissive of the rest of us.

 

Thank you for saying what every former North employee won't say.

 

I'm curious what you would see them do? Cut R&D and invest heavily in advertising the virtue of returning to Dacron sails for all boats? They've done some cool stuff for the one design world.

 

I know it's the SA way to loudly and frequently proclaim a distaste for North but honestly though, what would you have North do, the margin is in the top end, the visibility is in the top end, the drive for innovation is in the top end.

I was asked a couple years ago (Dec 2010) to write recommendations for the COO on what NTG's management team's priorities should be. About 1/3 of the recommendations exactly addressed this topic/issue (the other 2/3's were organizational, management and cost topics). And NO, cutting R&D and increasing advertising is exactly not the answer. It was an internal report and I am not going to post the details, but I do feel comfortable saying two things:

 

(1) they have vast opportunity to do better in three areas. (a) in exploiting the web to build a better distribution system. They know this, but are too entrenched and emotionally committed (all the management came up that way) to the local loft system to do it. They did not realize it but they could actually significantly improve their margins by 'going web'. ( b ) to build a much better product 'for the rest of us'. They have put essentially zero effort into developing anything except the grand prix product (3dl and then 3di) and matching the occasional competitive development (like radian). And there is a ton that they could do if they put their minds and resources to it. and ( c ) develop sailing in China. When I suggested this their eyes just glazed over as if I had suggested going to the moon.

 

(2) their 'strategy' (most of the team did not like that word) is fundamentally at odds with a market leader acting to grow the sport. The COO want's to be 'the BMW of sail making'. And he has driven that in both product development and selling, to the exclusion of the mass 'Honda/Toyota' that most of us actually use/need. This was 'ok' (not great but acceptable) in the good days, but after the recession it was a fast road to 'less of the same' and bad for the sport as a whole.

 

My report was not what the COO wanted to hear, and he ditched it.

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