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New Rambler

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Anyone got news here? It's wharrrrrnKAY right? 80 ish? Let's hope he double checked his brother's numbers on the FEA this time.

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According to the Seahorse build table it's going to be a 27m'r built by NEB. Anyone know the designer?

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Ah....that's what "wharrrrrnKAY" means. Thanks for translating

 

edit: Juan-Design needs a new website...

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If indeed it is a Juan-K design, I can't wait for the reactions of the "how on earth does anyone still give this guy a job" brigade :)

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My guess: Rambler's contract is probably from a while ago.

I would put money on that being the case.

 

 

It's pretty clear Juan K's ship has sailed- too many failures, too many boats that don't go....

He had success in the Volvo but that's it. However that is one pretty impressive place to be sucessful.

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So juan k was out of his depth in the ac72, he had no multi hull experience and it seems in hindsight foolish to have given him the job. He still has a pretty impressive mono record especially in the vor. His record in imoca is not great, although stamms boat seemed fast if a little fragile. ..

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I like JuanK imocas.

 

Pindar(black-and-white hugo boss) & Chem. Poj. were both real powerful machines.

Too powerful for solo, but maximum that rule allowed.

Still love his ideas.

 

New Rambler must be good, otherwise he is out of the business.

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I think he's a genius and his Volvo results are proof enough of that. I was stunned when Artemis selected him for the AC34. Zero track record in multi's. Big call and it bit them hard.

 

I don't think Volvo and IMOCA style designs will ever do consistently well in normal coastal races. They are built to do laps of the marble and do that very well but.......... They are too far into one corner of design. Absolute dogs in light air, can't run deep and can't point very high. So if the new Rambler is a typical JK design they are going to struggle in the shorter coastal races unless they get a vast majority (like 90%) of the course reaching in decent pressure. Should do well in the longer stuff though... Trans Atlantic etc.

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Are there any renderings / plans for Rambler 80 yet?

 

Yes the Juan K boats have had failures but he was probably just pushing the boundaries too far. Hopefully he has learnt and moved on.

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I think I'd rather put my money on Jim Clarke's new 100 footer by VPLP Design....

 

Mex

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Are there any renderings / plans for Rambler 80 yet?

 

Yes the Juan K boats have had failures but he was probably just pushing the boundaries too far. Hopefully he has learnt and moved on.

Been desperately trying to find some but JuanK is not our biggest pal. Sorry! At least we got Clark's up before anyone else.

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Clarke's a mono or a picklefork?

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Clarke's a mono or a picklefork?

 

 

Get over to the magical front page. Mono. Looks great.

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Are there any renderings / plans for Rambler 80 yet?

 

Yes the Juan K boats have had failures but he was probably just pushing the boundaries too far. Hopefully he has learnt and moved on.

Been desperately trying to find some but JuanK is not our biggest pal. Sorry! At least we got Clark's up before anyone else.

 

 

Thanks Clean, It looks good. Do you think they will bring it downunder for the Hobart?

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I think I'd rather put my money on Jim Clarke's new 100 footer by VPLP Design....

 

Mex

 

Yeah that would be a pretty safe bet.....

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Clarke's a mono or a picklefork?

180% scaled version of the Macif Open 60, looks like to me.

 

2015 Hobart, absolutely. 2014 sea trials and caribbean, then over to Med, then over to Oz. That's my info anyway, but Clarke will be here to present on Saturday.

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Canting keel with pedestals? Why the f#$% would you do that? Makes no sense at all?

 

They better hope they don't get 2013 conditions in the 2014 Hobart, Oats will smash them!

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I think they are removable for the races that allow powered winches. Not 100% sure though.

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If they want to do the Hobart (and it seems to be the top race currently?), then surely Wild Oats record shows you the optimum design for the most probable conditions? Maybe I’ve just done too much light wind sailing but the easily driven shape of wild oats seems very versatile when combined with the canting keel. Did people draw any conclusions re the crossover point from Wild Oats to Loyal? I only ask because I thought people were talking about ~20knots which seems like quite a lot to bank upon/require.

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Well you are carrying the IRC "stored power" penalty for the canting keel anyway so why bother?

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We will have to see more details. Looks a bit skinner than Loyal though. Either way Loyal will come back stronger and this 100 looks quick too only means more great racing in the Hobart!

 

Clean do you think Rambler 80 will come downunder too?

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Well you are carrying the IRC "stored power" penalty for the canting keel anyway so why bother?

Maybe they are going to pin the Keel. Living Doll style. Certainly racing non canting would explain the beam.

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I think I'd rather put my money on Jim Clarke's new 100 footer by VPLP Design....

 

Mex

Have been wondering since the AC when this project would come on the net :)

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I just heard from someone "in the know", he reckons it's supposed to have 6m more rig and 1.5m more draught than WOXI. He also said they will need a shitload more pedestals than that if they want to sail with manual power!!!

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If they want to do the Hobart (and it seems to be the top race currently?), then surely Wild Oats record shows you the optimum design for the most probable conditions? Maybe I’ve just done too much light wind sailing but the easily driven shape of wild oats seems very versatile when combined with the canting keel. Did people draw any conclusions re the crossover point from Wild Oats to Loyal? I only ask because I thought people were talking about ~20knots which seems like quite a lot to bank upon/require.

 

I think you will find this boat has quite a bit less WSA than Speedboat, but they might need to replace a couple kiwis with frenchmen to get the best out of her

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Ken Read is one of the main players in the project management and he convinced Jim Clark to come and speak to the Leadership Forum thing on Saturday,. I will record and post on our FB page.

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If they want to do the Hobart (and it seems to be the top race currently?), then surely Wild Oats record shows you the optimum design for the most probable conditions? Maybe I’ve just done too much light wind sailing but the easily driven shape of wild oats seems very versatile when combined with the canting keel. Did people draw any conclusions re the crossover point from Wild Oats to Loyal? I only ask because I thought people were talking about ~20knots which seems like quite a lot to bank upon/require.

I think you will find this boat has quite a bit less WSA than Speedboat, but they might need to replace a couple kiwis with frenchmen to get the best out of her

 

 

Verdier it is, but with a very strong Kiwi flavour ;) Is not Viaduct harbour where Verdier got most of his brain since the last Vendee ?

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my understanding was the IRC "stored power" penalty only applied to sail controls and that ballast was exempt, either way it doesn't seem to be enough but i've baged my head against that for ages and no one else really seem to care about the penalty or that its allowed on racing boats at all, as for the number of pedestal they seem to be only one short, they have 6, i'd assume u need 7 for a new 100 footer, hopefully if they going that way they'd also have 'green power' of some sort for the ballast.

 

as for the best wind range between oats and loyal i heard under 12 oats, above 20 loyal and in between depended on wind angle i guess it depends where u sail for that but in tassie u'd just give the edge to loyal over the course of a season

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Great, another couple of (insert size based word here) maxi's, deliberately orphaned at birth, competing for the prize of 'the tallest dwarf in the world. Can't wait for the IRC guys to tell me which is the best.

 

Anyone miss level rating? Or at the very least, LOA caps. After all, it's not like these boats are competing to being the fastest in the world, multi's have that sewn up already.

 

Here is an idea, why not all build Maxi's to a rating cap, and, IDK, race them around the world, maybe with 4 stops, elapsed time, and see who really is the most competitive, with the biggest balls. Silly idea, nobody would be interested in that. Best off building the most expensive 'offshore' boat you can, just for a day sail to Taz. Also good for all other off shores that don't allow multi's, as racing for line honours against a gunboat sipping gin in a wheelhouse is bad for the old ego. Drink, anyone?

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Autograph, you mean LOA and rating caps like they use right now? IRC Mini-Maxi is 60-72 feet and rating cap of 1.600. Then the maxi division is 72.1 to 100 feet and the Superyacht is over 100 feet.

 

The fun is that people only seem to want to play in the mini maxi fleet as there is a world championship in that size. Outside of that people just go crazy for line honours and fun. Not a bad thing really.

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IRC has an upper limit of 100ft IIRC?

 

Mini Maxi to 72ft

 

Maxi 73 to 90ft

 

Supermaxi 90 - 100ft

 

Pretty sure that's right.

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Rambler (nee Shockwave/Alpha) is 90. Always was. The was another Shockwave before that which was 80. Shorty bought it down under a couple of years back and sadly lost his life when he put it on the rocks off Wollongong.

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Autograph, multi-hulls are to yacht racing what drag racing is to motor sport. Kind of the same but very very different. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. I have never and will never call a multi-hull a "yacht".

 

Your concept of a 100 ft level class or rating class (which by the way makes perfect sense to me) aint happening any time soon and I'll tell you why. You will need to get 5 or 10 or 15 billionaires into a room to AGREE on a a great many things. And that sounds like a pretty tight definition of impossible to me. Especially when the 72 class is so strong right now. Maybe in another 20 or 30 year when there is lots more billionaires. Who knows.

 

Unfortunately "common" sense isn't common at the high end of this yachting caper.

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Autograph, multi-hulls are to yacht racing what drag racing is to motor sport. Kind of the same but very very different. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. I have never and will never call a multi-hull a "yacht".

 

Your concept of a 100 ft level class or rating class (which by the way makes perfect sense to me) aint happening any time soon and I'll tell you why. You will need to get 5 or 10 or 15 billionaires into a room to AGREE on a a great many things. And that sounds like a pretty tight definition of impossible to me. Especially when the 72 class is so strong right now. Maybe in another 20 or 30 year when there is lots more billionaires. Who knows.

 

Unfortunately "common" sense isn't common at the high end of this yachting caper.

 

And that's because your myopic. There's nothing particular yachty in my mind about any of the carbon fiber skimming dishes that are currently competing in the mini-maxi or maxi fleets.

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No you're myopic!

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^------- What he said, hahahaha. May have started out as 80, but she has definitely grown.

Agree with you, the last time I looked 27m = 88.5 ft

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Autograph, The Mini maxi fleet are far from being skimming dishes. They are actually bloody nice yachts and more than capable in a wide variety of conditions. Which skimming dishes generally aren't.

 

It is interesting how the AC72s were referred to by all those in the bases as "platforms" and "wings". Not once did I hear anyone refer to them as yachts.

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Clarke's a mono or a picklefork?

180% scaled version of the Macif Open 60, looks like to me.

 

2015 Hobart, absolutely. 2014 sea trials and caribbean, then over to Med, then over to Oz. That's my info anyway, but Clarke will be here to present on Saturday.

Perhaps they could stop here and do the 2015 Fastnet with Loyal?

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^------- What he said, hahahaha. May have started out as 80, but she has definitely grown.

Agree with you, the last time I looked 27m = 88.5 ft

The yard had to draw the line somewhere, the shed and oven are only so big!

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Autograph, multi-hulls are to yacht racing what drag racing is to motor sport. Kind of the same but very very different. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. I have never and will never call a multi-hull a "yacht".

 

Your concept of a 100 ft level class or rating class (which by the way makes perfect sense to me) aint happening any time soon and I'll tell you why. You will need to get 5 or 10 or 15 billionaires into a room to AGREE on a a great many things. And that sounds like a pretty tight definition of impossible to me. Especially when the 72 class is so strong right now. Maybe in another 20 or 30 year when there is lots more billionaires. Who knows.

 

Unfortunately "common" sense isn't common at the high end of this yachting caper.

They couldn't even get members of the same club to build a STC65 fleet. You had officers and members building 66 -70 foot customs at the same time they were pushing the class to others.

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Autograph, multi-hulls are to yacht racing what drag racing is to motor sport. Kind of the same but very very different. Comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges. I have never and will never call a multi-hull a "yacht".

 

Your concept of a 100 ft level class or rating class (which by the way makes perfect sense to me) aint happening any time soon and I'll tell you why. You will need to get 5 or 10 or 15 billionaires into a room to AGREE on a a great many things. And that sounds like a pretty tight definition of impossible to me. Especially when the 72 class is so strong right now. Maybe in another 20 or 30 year when there is lots more billionaires. Who knows.

 

Unfortunately "common" sense isn't common at the high end of this yachting caper.

They couldn't even get members of the same club to build a STC65 fleet. You had officers and members building 66 -70 foot customs at the same time they were pushing the class to others.

Exactly. And even the ones that were built had differences.

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Autograph, The Mini maxi fleet are far from being skimming dishes. They are actually bloody nice yachts and more than capable in a wide variety of conditions. Which skimming dishes generally aren't.

 

It is interesting how the AC72s were referred to by all those in the bases as "platforms" and "wings". Not once did I hear anyone refer to them as yachts.

That was Crushdigital that said that.

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my understanding was the IRC "stored power" penalty only applied to sail controls and that ballast was exempt, either way it doesn't seem to be enough but i've baged my head against that for ages and no one else really seem to care about the penalty or that its allowed on racing boats at all, as for the number of pedestal they seem to be only one short, they have 6, i'd assume u need 7 for a new 100 footer, hopefully if they going that way they'd also have 'green power' of some sort for the ballast.

 

as for the best wind range between oats and loyal i heard under 12 oats, above 20 loyal and in between depended on wind angle i guess it depends where u sail for that but in tassie u'd just give the edge to loyal over the course of a season

I could be wrong but I thought stored power applied to a movable ballast yacht that uses stored power to move said ballast. So if you are carrying the gigantic weight penalty of hydraulic pump, oil reservoir etc required to move the keel then it's madness not to power the winches too. Then you can leave a whole heap of hungry boofheads at home. Flights, accom, wages, food costs etc all add up pretty quick.

 

I know Rosebud had a separate electric - hydraulic system for lifting the keel. It was exempt from stored power penalty because it was never used while racing. Apparently the keel up grind was about 6 minutes, not very popular at the end of a days racing so they put the electric pump in pretty soon after launch.They had a rotary pump with a pressure tank for storage that ran off the main sheet pedestal for sail controls, awesome system. They also had a race car style fuel cell for the main engine tank. You could be at 30 degrees of heel and still get the last 5 litres out of the tank! One of the best engineered boats I've ever been on. Some very clever guys at the heart of the Rosebud program.

 

I reckon you would need more like 10 or 12 pedestals to get around an inshore circuit in any sort of respectable fashion. The old IOR maxis had 6 or more. For an offshore race you might get away with 8 or so but gybing the A2 would be an absolute clusterfuck. Line speed is your friend for gybing and furling. Prevents wraps on the forestay and minimises the ground lost in a gybe dramatically.

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Autograph, The Mini maxi fleet are far from being skimming dishes. They are actually bloody nice yachts and more than capable in a wide variety of conditions. Which skimming dishes generally aren't.

 

It is interesting how the AC72s were referred to by all those in the bases as "platforms" and "wings". Not once did I hear anyone refer to them as yachts.

That was Crushdigital that said that.

I'm not criticizing them, in fact I think they're fantastic. It's just that the interiors and cockpits wouldn't exactly give off a "yachty" vibe to the layman. Words like spartan come to mind.

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Fair enough.

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I reckon you would need more like 10 or 12 pedestals to get around an inshore circuit in any sort of respectable fashion. The old IOR maxis had 6 or more. For an offshore race you might get away with 8 or so but gybing the A2 would be an absolute clusterfuck. Line speed is your friend for gybing and furling. Prevents wraps on the forestay and minimises the ground lost in a gybe dramatically.

 

*Citation needed*

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I reckon you would need more like 10 or 12 pedestals to get around an inshore circuit in any sort of respectable fashion. The old IOR maxis had 6 or more. For an offshore race you might get away with 8 or so but gybing the A2 would be an absolute clusterfuck. Line speed is your friend for gybing and furling. Prevents wraps on the forestay and minimises the ground lost in a gybe dramatically.

 

*Citation needed*

Ha ha ha. I base that on the experience of having sailed two very full seasons as port trimmer on an 82ft IOR maxi with a very capable crew. I spoke yesterday to a bloke who has won 7 hobarts on a 100 footer, he had a good laugh at that rendering. He said something along the line of "6 pedestals! They are f$%#ing kidding themselves!"

 

As I'm sure everyone will remember in the days of symmetrical spinnakers the sheets were half the length and did not need to be pulled very fast at all to complete a maneuver successfully. And lets not even get into the loads.

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my understanding was the IRC "stored power" penalty only applied to sail controls and that ballast was exempt, either way it doesn't seem to be enough but i've baged my head against that for ages and no one else really seem to care about the penalty or that its allowed on racing boats at all, as for the number of pedestal they seem to be only one short, they have 6, i'd assume u need 7 for a new 100 footer, hopefully if they going that way they'd also have 'green power' of some sort for the ballast.

 

as for the best wind range between oats and loyal i heard under 12 oats, above 20 loyal and in between depended on wind angle i guess it depends where u sail for that but in tassie u'd just give the edge to loyal over the course of a season

I could be wrong but I thought stored power applied to a movable ballast yacht that uses stored power to move said ballast. So if you are carrying the gigantic weight penalty of hydraulic pump, oil reservoir etc required to move the keel then it's madness not to power the winches too. Then you can leave a whole heap of hungry boofheads at home. Flights, accom, wages, food costs etc all add up pretty quick.

 

I know Rosebud had a separate electric - hydraulic system for lifting the keel. It was exempt from stored power penalty because it was never used while racing. Apparently the keel up grind was about 6 minutes, not very popular at the end of a days racing so they put the electric pump in pretty soon after launch.They had a rotary pump with a pressure tank for storage that ran off the main sheet pedestal for sail controls, awesome system. They also had a race car style fuel cell for the main engine tank. You could be at 30 degrees of heel and still get the last 5 litres out of the tank! One of the best engineered boats I've ever been on. Some very clever guys at the heart of the Rosebud program.

 

I reckon you would need more like 10 or 12 pedestals to get around an inshore circuit in any sort of respectable fashion. The old IOR maxis had 6 or more. For an offshore race you might get away with 8 or so but gybing the A2 would be an absolute clusterfuck. Line speed is your friend for gybing and furling. Prevents wraps on the forestay and minimises the ground lost in a gybe dramatically.

most IOR maxis had 5 many 4 one or two with 6 (they were the big ones that when they switched to IMS had to sail around with reefs in the main cos they rated to high) i was on the old 79ft nicorette with 3 and it wasn't a problem and was on Konica Minolta (now lahana and 98ft) which had 5 again no problem, i'd have thought 6 would be enough if you were doing a range of races (inshore coastal and offshore, but seven would be plenty and for inshore 8 more than enough) plus they will give all the young guys an chance as when the finish a race you they used to need people to help with the delivery so when i spoke to people thats how they got their 'break' but thats all ended now. I think its a real opportunity for a new maxi rule 100ft loa limit manual winches for all sail controls and and 'green' power for ballast, it would be great for the sport imho

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Well ok, all the REALLY old ones may have had less but the modern ones like Drumbeat / Congere had 6, Pretty sure matador had more than that, 7 or 8? I've seen Lahana than go around the cans plenty of times. They have an excellent deck layout btw. However they are fixed keel and therefore MUCH less powerful than oats, which is again much less powerful than Loyal, which will be also be a lot less powerful than Clarke's new baby. Their gybes take more than twice as long as wild oats. Like I said, to be competitive around the cans they will need LOTS MORE PUMPS!

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just going through my old photos matador (She was insane at something like 86ft long and 24ft wide, from memory, and she was the one that as fudge raced in an mid '90s syd-hob and had to have a reef in permanently to rate) and drum (thats bonds lexcen designed ior maxi not the simon le bon whitbren keel losing one) had 6 (at least in the photos I have) and the others that i have photos of have 5, genuine risk an 90 something footer designed for inshore racing had 5 as did the 90ft shockwave/rambler the maxi 86 sister ships had 4 as did bols sport an 93ft for offshore, then there is the failed maxi one design cap gemini 98 or 100ft i can't remember had 4 (even i think thats fucked) and the old farr 80 maxi one design had 3 also. yes much less powerful than a new maxi but still quite doable i think.

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Well ok, all the REALLY old ones may have had less but the modern ones like Drumbeat / Congere had 6, Pretty sure matador had more than that, 7 or 8? I've seen Lahana than go around the cans plenty of times. They have an excellent deck layout btw. However they are fixed keel and therefore MUCH less powerful than oats, which is again much less powerful than Loyal, which will be also be a lot less powerful than Clarke's new baby. Their gybes take more than twice as long as wild oats. Like I said, to be competitive around the cans they will need LOTS MORE PUMPS!

New Cubed (or Comanche, I still am not sure they have the name finalized) is not for round the cans racing. Design brief: Line honors, race records, and passage records. No powered winches are allowed for most of the race and WSSRC records.

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Rambler is apparently designed to ne competitive on handicap as well, and I am told JuanK convinced GD and his boys that the smaller boat would be more likely to win under the rules that most interest George, and still have a chance to win overall in light or DDW conditions, because she should be quite light.

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I guess he's used to having lots of grinders on the payroll from the J boat. I still reckon 6 is way under done even for offshore stuff. Bondy's / Bevan Koeppel's maxi was called DRUMBEAT / Congere, not drum, that was lebon's boat. It was a Pederick design, Benny Lexan did all the preliminary stuff but Pedrick was the man with the plans. 82ft oa and 28 feet beam. Weighed about a hundred billion tonnes. We took 28 bodies to Bermuda in 98. Meal times were hilarious.

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Well ok, all the REALLY old ones may have had less but the modern ones like Drumbeat / Congere had 6, Pretty sure matador had more than that, 7 or 8? I've seen Lahana than go around the cans plenty of times. They have an excellent deck layout btw. However they are fixed keel and therefore MUCH less powerful than oats, which is again much less powerful than Loyal, which will be also be a lot less powerful than Clarke's new baby. Their gybes take more than twice as long as wild oats. Like I said, to be competitive around the cans they will need LOTS MORE PUMPS!

New Cubed (or Comanche, I still am not sure they have the name finalized) is not for round the cans racing. Design brief: Line honors, race records, and passage records. No powered winches are allowed for most of the race and WSSRC records.

so clean do you think thats the way it should be? or are you c=going to stay out of the whole powered/manual debate?

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Rambler is apparently designed to ne competitive on handicap as well, and I am told JuanK convinced GD and his boys that the smaller boat would be more likely to win under the rules that most interest George, and still have a chance to win overall in light or DDW conditions, because she should be quite light.

Aint no chance in hell a big fat bottom girl like that is going to be anywhere near Wild Oats DDW in ANY conditions. Oh hang on did you mean on rating or boat for boat?

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I think powered winches should have never been allowed in the first place, at least not on Grand prix boats. The advantage they have over man power is massive and not penalised anywhere near heavily enough. But how the hell do you ban them now? The horse has bolted I'm afraid.

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The old IOR maxis had 6 or more. ...... Line speed is your friend for gybing and furling. Prevents wraps on the forestay and minimises the ground lost in a gybe dramatically.

 

Abbo, what speed do you reckon an asso sheet would be coming off a powered winch during a gybe?

 

I spent a few years behind a big Lewmar drum (30cm?ish) driven by 4 humans on 2 pedestals via a 6 speed gearbox and I reckon at full tilt the line was coming off that drum at around 40kph - and my arms were going as fast as I have ever moved them, biggest shit fight would be if I missed a grab on my next handfull and it all went to hell.

 

I really dont think my arms could have gone much faster, and I cant imagine that you would be using a self tailer on a powered winch - do you?

 

ML

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Only as fast as the trimmer can strip it. No one uses self-tailers on sheet winches, just too risky. Some use them on halyard winches but only on medium speeds. The general mode of operation on powered winches is a bit different to conventional. Because there is such massive amounts of power on tap you have to be very careful which is no easy thing with such high line speeds. What they tend to do is use less turns and slip the line a lot more than you would with human power. It kinda like a automatic safety valve. If the load spikes the line just slips on the drum.

 

Slipping the winch was a death sentence on an IOR Maxi. Gave the grinders the shits big time, even if your intentions were honorable they didn't give a shit. From memory of the IOR maxi's (a very rusty memory at that) a tack with those with those overlapping head sails went something like this... the first 50-60ft of sheet came on in the first 4 or 5 seconds, which was an absolute mad frenzy for the trimmer of flailing arms, almost "batting" the sheet either side of you rather than gripping it, only 2 or 3 turns on the drum. Then 2nd gear, add three more turns, another 10 feet or so in another 10 seconds. Then 3rd gear, down to about 8 or 10 inches to go now, rapidly adding another 3 or 4 turns as the loads skyrocket, taking about 20 seconds. It didn't matter so much that the sail took so bloody long to come on because the boats were so friggen heavy it took twice as long for them to get back up to targets.

 

Let's paint a scenario for gybing Clarke's boat with an A2 in say, 8 knots TWS. Ok so lets say two pedestals (4 blokes) on the sheet, two on the main leaving two for the runners? Ok ease /float old sheet about halfway to forestay and cut. Now you have 100+ feet of sheet that need to be fully on in as short a time as possible as obviously the chute wont fill until the sheet is at least 75% on right? So those 4 blokes will be fine and get the line on nice and quick when there is no or little load on it, as you correctly say the only limitation there is how fast the trimmer can strip the line off the drum. But as soon as the chute fills partially suddenly you have say, a tonne of load, the guys are not in top gear anymore are they? No they hit a brick wall and go for second. which is normally a lot less than half the speed of top gear. Sure if the chute flogs again a good trimmer / grinder team will realise, stop, and go back into top gear (don't forget to press the top gear button trimmer) and have a second chop at it. Who knows, the grinders may get lucky and beat the helmsman and have it full sheeted on by the time the yacht is up on course. But the powered winch boat already has the chute full and is floating it back out to optimum trim. Their trimmer slipped the line on the drum when he got that load spike but the winch kept on spinning and the sheet kept moving very fast.

 

Now picture that with an A3 or A4 in 30 knots. Not pretty is it. Now picture trying to furl that sail in a 40 knot squall when you decide to get it off. Can 6 pedestals get it put away before it destroys itself from being flogged to death? Maybe, but if will be the longest grind of their lives. It's ok boys, take a break. Oh wait, now we have to put another reef in before the main destroys itself, fill the pumps everyone! Now picture it on day 2 at 4 am. Or worse still, 3/4 of the way across the atlantic, day 7 at 2 am, after eating freeze dried for a week. The powered winch boat (or boat with 10 pedestals) has it furled and is halfway through hoisting the the A6 or what ever comes next. And didn't have to wake the off watch.

 

As we all know, ocean racing can be a real bitch and oftentimes things go to custard very quickly. Being able to respond quickly to a rapidly deteriorating situation often saves the day. That is a HUGE part of the massive advantage powered winches have. Crews also have a tendency to get tired towards the end of a race, or at 4 in the morning. Powered winched don't. The longer the race is, the bigger the advantage is.

 

6 Pedestals just isn't enough lads. As the bloke who's done 9 Hobarts on a 100 footer said "Those blokes are kidding them selves!" My money is safe with him I reckon..

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great word pictures Abbo - thanks for that, I have a whole new appreciation for the scenario.

 

right on about sheet slipping sending the windle boys over the edge, but we can still buy each other a beer 30 years later.

 

ML

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on the big boats, we always use the self tailers for the gybes. no pint stretching a trimmers' arms right. 180-200m/ minute on Wild Oats. Thats all.a

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I stand corrected. Have you ever have an "oh boy"? Must be a big mess at those speeds!

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Punter???!!! I'm no Punter!!!!

 

lol

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on the big boats, we always use the self tailers for the gybes. no pint stretching a trimmers' arms right. 180-200m/ minute on Wild Oats. Thats all.a

 

as in 3 mtr p/sec?? waddyado, toss the sheet tail in the water so it cant go around the horn, or is it the fluffers job to sort out the grapes?

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Well ok, all the REALLY old ones may have had less but the modern ones like Drumbeat / Congere had 6, Pretty sure matador had more than that, 7 or 8? I've seen Lahana than go around the cans plenty of times. They have an excellent deck layout btw. However they are fixed keel and therefore MUCH less powerful than oats, which is again much less powerful than Loyal, which will be also be a lot less powerful than Clarke's new baby. Their gybes take more than twice as long as wild oats. Like I said, to be competitive around the cans they will need LOTS MORE PUMPS!

New Cubed (or Comanche, I still am not sure they have the name finalized) is not for round the cans racing. Design brief: Line honors, race records, and passage records. No powered winches are allowed for most of the race and WSSRC records.

so clean do you think thats the way it should be? or are you c=going to stay out of the whole powered/manual debate?

 

Is the debate still going on? I thought it was settled: CYCA likes powered winches because the Oatleys like powered winches and the rest of the world likes powered keels but thinks powered winches are evil and belong in an 'exhibition' class. Isn't that about right?

 

The WSSRC ain't changing their rules anytime soon, so it's more about comparing like against like anyway. Quite frankly the monohull records are so much slower than the outright records that the whole thing is a bit comical. Still should be a cool boat and quicker than 99% of the boats in the world - multi or mono - anyway, so I'm on board with that!

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6 Pedestals just isn't enough lads. As the bloke who's done 9 Hobarts on a 100 footer said "Those blokes are kidding them selves!" My money is safe with him I reckon..

Maybe. Then again, the guys who designed the Clark boat also designed a certain 135 footer that has done pretty well at a similar design brief. My money is safe with him, I reckon. At a certain speed - a lot higher than most of the 100 footers that do the S-H race - you need to stop thinking like a mono huller. How many pedestals do you think this boat has?

Screen Shot 2014-02-19 at 12.20.03 PM.png

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6 Pedestals just isn't enough lads. As the bloke who's done 9 Hobarts on a 100 footer said "Those blokes are kidding them selves!" My money is safe with him I reckon..

Maybe. Then again, the guys who designed the Clark boat also designed a certain 135 footer that has done pretty well at a similar design brief. My money is safe with him, I reckon. At a certain speed - a lot higher than most of the 100 footers that do the S-H race - you need to stop thinking like a mono huller. How many pedestals do you think this boat has?

I thought we were talking about mono hulls. Wait, we ARE talking about monos. WTF are you on about? And it ain't going to be much quicker than Wild Oats, couple a knots quicker reaching but just as much slower VMG upwind or running. They will need favorable conditions and have to sail it REALLY well to beat WOXI in a Hobart. Even if they are reaching If they miss a shift or sail into a hole WOXI (and possibly LOYAL) will fly right by. Just the same way WOXI sailed into a hole and Loyal flew right by in the last race.

 

Trans Ocean Records, well OK, you could argue that not getting the sheet on quick or zero's furled really quick is a fair trade off for ditching the extra weight of 4 pedestals and 8 blokes (incl water, food, safety gear rqd for those 8 blokes) You are racing the clock after all, not for boat lengths like in a coastal race. Still, I'd hate to be one of the blokes on the pumps at 4 in the morning on day 8 trying to furl the zero in a 40 knot squall before it shits itself. Sounds like medieval torture to me.

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6 Pedestals just isn't enough lads. As the bloke who's done 9 Hobarts on a 100 footer said "Those blokes are kidding them selves!" My money is safe with him I reckon..

Maybe. Then again, the guys who designed the Clark boat also designed a certain 135 footer that has done pretty well at a similar design brief. My money is safe with him, I reckon. At a certain speed - a lot higher than most of the 100 footers that do the S-H race - you need to stop thinking like a mono huller. How many pedestals do you think this boat has?
I thought we were talking about mono hulls. Wait, we ARE talking about monos. WTF are you on about? And it ain't going to be much quicker than Wild Oats, couple a knots quicker reaching but just as much slower VMG upwind or running. They will need favorable conditions and have to sail it REALLY well to beat WOXI in a Hobart. Even if they are reaching If they miss a shift or sail into a hole WOXI (and possibly LOYAL) will fly right by. Just the same way WOXI sailed into a hole and Loyal flew right by in the last race.

 

Trans Ocean Records, well OK, you could argue that not getting the sheet on quick or zero's furled really quick is a fair trade off for ditching the extra weight of 4 pedestals and 8 blokes (incl water, food, safety gear rqd for those 8 blokes) You are racing the clock after all, not for boat lengths like in a coastal race. Still, I'd hate to be one of the blokes on the pumps at 4 in the morning on day 8 trying to furl the zero in a 40 knot squall before it shits itself. Sounds like medieval torture to me.

Are we talking about the new Rambler, or Cubed here? Thought this thread was about the latter!

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We started off talking about rambler. Now we are talking about Clarke's record breaker.

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5

 

 

 

 

deckshot-1.jpg

6...between the wheels lurks another set of handles.

Yeah but that one didn't cross link to the primary's.

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5

 

 

 

 

deckshot-1.jpg

6...between the wheels lurks another set of handles.

 

PO's wife told me stories about doing the traveler on the boat and having the grinders to help. I'd imagine that they could also link into the runners winches there.

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When the boat was in its prime any winch could be linked into all grinders. And by any I mean primaries, secondaries, main and runners. All other winches were top handle only. I maintained that system for two years, I got to know it pretty well. Apparently it was the most versatile system ever put on a maxi in its day. The deck layout was pretty good really. We always had a number of options for any given situation.

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And as far as I'm concerned that boat died when it was sold by the Navy to that wanker Actor. How dare someone rename such a glorious craft which a rich history "spank me big time". That bloke should be shot.

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5

 

 

 

 

deckshot-1.jpg

An interesting collection of sailing attire on the rail

 

Is that a collection of dive gear behind the traveller?

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And as far as I'm concerned that boat died when it was sold by the Navy to that wanker Actor. How dare someone rename such a glorious craft which a rich history "spank me big time". That bloke should be shot.

Or at least Spanked.

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Tailing the sheet is a load of fun, as you say. Sometimes however you just need a buddy (or in the Caribbean a naked chick), to do the buttons while you're bringing it in and winding on wraps. Some big boats just aren't set up for the trimmer to push buttons at the same time as huge hand-over-hand wraps.

 

I don't miss wire, BTW.

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I just missed out on wire by a season or two. I count myself very lucky. Congere/Drumbeat was set up like a 12 meter so the trimmers stood in pits about 4 feet deep so the drum was belly/chest height. Awesome set up.

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I did a "casualty cast-off" once with wire sheets, yanked the other trimmer out of his pit and about 10' out sideways from the boat - somehow no cheese slice and we recovered him on one piece, no blood!

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I just missed out on wire by a season or two. I count myself very lucky. Congere/Drumbeat was set up like a 12 meter so the trimmers stood in pits about 4 feet deep so the drum was belly/chest height. Awesome set up.

Happy Birthday mate!

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Better tell the Mods - its on the side bar! Big one to hey mate...it seems like only yesterday that I did you and Mikey's YM exams. Damn you kids grow up quick these days..... :)

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