Sign in to follow this  
Abbo

New Rambler

Recommended Posts

Boat due in the Shipyard Thursday or Friday now, considering it's blowing wet dogs off chains here, I can't say I'm surprised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curious both Comanche and Rambler have Southern Spars mast even though Hall is right there. Why? Are Souther Spars just better or is it Hall can't make them that big?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curious both Comanche and Rambler have Southern Spars mast even though Hall is right there. Why? Are Souther Spars just better or is it Hall can't make them that big?

North owns Southern Spars so there's more development between them as partners.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Blows my mind they clearcoated anything, even the undersides. But neat work, if you got it spendit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Curious both Comanche and Rambler have Southern Spars mast even though Hall is right there. Why? Are Souther Spars just better or is it Hall can't make them that big?

 

Price, North affiliation, lead time, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has there been any indication what races she'll target in her first year? Presumably too late now for Sydney-Hobart, but I don't recall any prior Ramblers (while they were still Ramblers) doing Sydney-Hobart anyway.

 

She is entered for the Trans Atlantic in July, then I guess the Fastnet after that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very interesting. Apparently they help the flow detach later and re-attach sooner. Found on whale flippers everywhere!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow stunning. My mouth waters at the thought she could be added to this years Hobart line up. Off course that isn't happening so we'll just have to wait. This boat is a big thing for Juan K going forward I would have thought?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow stunning. My mouth waters at the thought she could be added to this years Hobart line up. Off course that isn't happening so we'll just have to wait. This boat is a big thing for Juan K going forward I would have thought?

Despite his VOR success he's spawned a few turkeys so he needs to score with this one. Hull notably less flat than Loyal and looks skinnier for it's length - but we don;t know what the design brief was. As it's not a 100 footer I can only assume handicap racing is a consideration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wtf? Are curves not allowed anymore or are designers trying to one up each other using an etch a sketch?

 

Cool boat- best of luck with it, should be fun to see her otw this winter- I assume kwrw will be her coming out party..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tubercles! Any involvement from Paul Bieker?

Looks like spin-off from Oracle AC32 research.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

R100 looks bow down

they rekn a new prod and the worlds biggest sail is going to fix it...... I guess we'll see on race day

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Black Betty was always pretty bow down, Speedboat was a direct descendant of that. The white boat (ABN) had quite a bit more rocker so it was much more forgiving off the breeze, hence the kids were able to push harder and got the 24 hour record. That being said Black Betty was a full knot quicker at 90 TWA!!!

 

I would love to see Loyal (Speedboat) and Comanche in 30-40kn at 100-110 TWA..... I reckon Loyal would put up a pretty good fight!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the online MIT Technology Review:

 

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/409710/whale-inspired-wind-turbines/

 

"Previous experiments have shown, however, that the angle of attack of a humpback-whale flipper can be up to 40 percent steeper than that of a smooth flipper before stall occurs."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tubercles! Any involvement from Paul Bieker?

 

My first thought also. Wonder if there's been any hard research done on this, in the sailboat optimization context rather than the turbine blade context (for a 36 or 40 footer, you'd understand if the answer turns out to be "no;" once you're dealing with a $$$$ project, you would think "yes"), or if they're still a bit of Bieker art that is presumed to/seems to work

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the online MIT Technology Review:

 

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/409710/whale-inspired-wind-turbines/

 

"Previous experiments have shown, however, that the angle of attack of a humpback-whale flipper can be up to 40 percent steeper than that of a smooth flipper before stall occurs."

 

That's for low Rn...almost creeping flows. Whoever designed the rudders didn't read the article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think they have deliberately made the rudders very shallow to avoid having the weather rudder always dragging the tip in the water (see Comanche, Beau Geste, VO65s etc). The tubercules are probably an attempt to allow the very small rudders to still work when pressed hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With twin rudders there is a big problem with the windward rudder tip being stalled much of the time. This is due to the leeward rudder running at some positive angle of attack because of weather helm, and the windward rudder exiting and entering the water at this angle of attack which is too great for flow to be established without sucking air down the foil.

 

It is very draggy and also annoying for the driver.

 

Another solution is to "toe-in" the rudders so that the windward rudder enters the water at an angle of attack approaching zero. The problem with this is the toe-in angle needs to be different at every point of sail since the amount of weather helm varies a ton. This can be very complex. The other solution is to raise the windward rudder out of the water like the Open-60s which also complex as well as heavy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another solution is to "toe-in" the rudders so that the windward rudder enters the water at an angle of attack approaching zero. The problem with this is the toe-in angle needs to be different at every point of sail since the amount of weather helm varies a ton. This can be very complex. The other solution is to raise the windward rudder out of the water like the Open-60s which also complex as well as heavy.

 

Do IMOCAs adjust toe in angle? Wonder if there's the capability here. Easier on smaller boats.

 

1454781_443621702408535_1006648829_n.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the online MIT Technology Review:

 

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/409710/whale-inspired-wind-turbines/

 

"Previous experiments have shown, however, that the angle of attack of a humpback-whale flipper can be up to 40 percent steeper than that of a smooth flipper before stall occurs."

 

How the fuck do they get the whale to perform the experiments?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the preferred solution in IMOCA is to lift the windward rudder. This allows them to run a fuse to reduce the chance of damage due to collision.

When your leg length is measured in hundreds, if not thousands, of miles you come up with different solutions.

Stacking, or installing, a spare rudder by yourself seems like it would be hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

From the online MIT Technology Review:

 

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/409710/whale-inspired-wind-turbines/

 

"Previous experiments have shown, however, that the angle of attack of a humpback-whale flipper can be up to 40 percent steeper than that of a smooth flipper before stall occurs."

How the fuck do they get the whale to perform the experiments?

tell her she's cute and buy her drinks all night...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

From the online MIT Technology Review:

 

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/409710/whale-inspired-wind-turbines/

 

"Previous experiments have shown, however, that the angle of attack of a humpback-whale flipper can be up to 40 percent steeper than that of a smooth flipper before stall occurs."

How the fuck do they get the whale to perform the experiments?

tell her she's cute and buy her drinks all night...

 

They throw the whale in the testing tank ..! No seriously that's what the test tanks are for.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Err, do you think now is a good time to mention to George that WOXI got an extra 4% by making the bow entry finer?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Who's gonna skipper this boat now Ken Read has moved on?

Brad Butterworth has been mentioned.

BB driving around in RI again ;-) ... wonder who's going to be riding shotgun

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Err, do you think now is a good time to mention to George that WOXI got an extra 4% by making the bow entry finer?

4% is a huge number. Source?

 

Agree looks full, buts its quite rounded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Err, do you think now is a good time to mention to George that WOXI got an extra 4% by making the bow entry finer?

4% is a huge number. Source?

 

Agree looks full, buts its quite rounded.

Yeah, I thought there may have been a touch of gamesmanship when Ricko made the 4% claim - it was just after they remodelled the entry and fitted the new bobstay. It's on one of the threads here - a couple of months back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Err, do you think now is a good time to mention to George that WOXI got an extra 4% by making the bow entry finer?

 

Err, do you think now is a good time to mention to George that WOXI got an extra 4% by making the bow entry finer?

Mebbe not - but give it a year................... Yeah look at the couple of Farr400 that have been a good deal faster upwind with a nosejob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the nose supposed to be scow-esque?

 

Just thinking out loud but it seems 88 feet may be the length determined because of cost...cost of sails, crew, moorage, etc. I don't think GD is a billionaire and even multi-millionaires need to live on a budget. Beau Gest is only 80 feet.

 

She's gorgeous. Brave to go with Juan K but exciting to see innovative thinking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

88 was the longest they could get in the oven, it grew from 80 several times. The bow is pretty round, but not extremely so bearing in mind how the bows look on Mini Maxis and other IRC designed boat these days. I'm sure along with the spray rails it's all about keeping lift/volume on the nose as to be able to push the boat hard off the breeze.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Review the 2011 Transaltantic race between Rambler 100 and Puma. The extra length is not as beneficially as you expect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At least they don't have those dodgy Michael Jackson White socks - yet another one of his crimes that he has yet to answer for.... Oh wait a minute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boat is going back in the water right about now at the shipyard. Can't be cheap having Jimmy running the 500t lift on a Sunday!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boat is going back in the water right about now at the shipyard. Can't be cheap having Jimmy running the 500t lift on a Sunday!

Name dropper :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A Tall order.

post-32003-0-47742100-1418606516_thumb.png

I like the soft mid section and the fore and aft chines.

I am not sure about the daggerboards.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the aesthetics department I'm liking the new Rambler a shitload more than the other newly emerged creations (Comanche,Rio, & Rags 100)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got to wonder how she will go compared to new 100 footers such as Comanche. They will eventually meet head to head. 12 Feet is a considerable handicap for Line Honours racing. And who stipulated 88 Feet versus 90 or 100 for example? I hear it was JuanK ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read up a few posts, it started at 80 but grew and grew until it reached 88 which was the max size they could fit in the oven where she was built.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read up a few posts, it started at 80 but grew and grew until it reached 88 which was the max size they could fit in the oven where she was built.

 

yeah I heard the over story too so couldn't they take the project anywhere else.??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone seems to be copying the Farr daggerboard shape. They can all thank Alon Finkelstein for that development.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't surprise me if other builders weren't willing to touch a JuanK supermaxi

 

Boat builders know what side their bread is buttered. Cookson still does plenty of Farr builds after the original Beau Geste 80 decided to split up the middle.

 

Pretty sure the only reason they didn't do the refit work on Rambler 100 was that they had the new BG in the shed at the time, so the boat went to Yachting Developments.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard about the build of Speedboat that Mick Cookson wasn't happy with structures on it so he beefed it up bit with a few extra laminates here and there.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wouldn't surprise me, he's been around carbon long enough to know what works and what won't.

 

He said that BG would split when he was building the thing. I'm sure others know more about the build but he had a fairly lengthy indemnity clause I believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Read up a few posts, it started at 80 but grew and grew until it reached 88 which was the max size they could fit in the oven where she was built.

 

yeah I heard the over story too so couldn't they take the project anywhere else.??

In this world of designing up until it is almost too late to build the boat. I expect GD had already paid a hefty non returnable deposit on building an 80 footer at NEB while the design spiral was still in works. I guess the design spiral ended at shutting the oven door.

 

Think it was a little short sighted of NEB to build that shed without the possibility of fitting in a 100 ft build.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Land may have been a consideration to the size of the building and hence the length of the oven...but you know that already.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the east side of the shed, there is room. Not much but I would have thought enough to push 12 foot further.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could probably make an outdoor autoclave out of surplus containers. You only need say 175deg. run 3 40'rs down each side and one on each end, throw a corrugated steel sheet on top, plumb in some torpedo heaters, and bake away...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could probably make an outdoor autoclave out of surplus containers. You only need say 175deg. run 3 40'rs down each side and one on each end, throw a corrugated steel sheet on top, plumb in some torpedo heaters, and bake away...

Autoclave? Don't you mean oven?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You could probably make an outdoor autoclave out of surplus containers. You only need say 175deg. run 3 40'rs down each side and one on each end, throw a corrugated steel sheet on top, plumb in some torpedo heaters, and bake away...

Autoclave? Don't you mean oven?

that too...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could probably make an outdoor autoclave out of surplus containers. You only need say 175deg. run 3 40'rs down each side and one on each end, throw a corrugated steel sheet on top, plumb in some torpedo heaters, and bake away...

Have fun pressurising that!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C'mon Guys.

The owner of this boat has a ton of experience with a 100 foot version of it and HE must of decided that was not what he wanted. The why really doesn't matter.

What you would have done if you had hundreds of millions of dollars to spend is NOT relevant because you probably don't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The owner of this boat has a ton of experience with a 100 foot version of it and HE must of decided that was not what he wanted.

 

That is of course true, but why? And who led him down that path? I find the draft rumor to be plausible, why else would you build a shorter boat? Lighter, sure. Less sail area, absolutely. More efficient, sure. Together, those changes should provide a faster boat. But shorter?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The owner of this boat has a ton of experience with a 100 foot version of it and HE must of decided that was not what he wanted.

 

That is of course true, but why? And who led him down that path? I find the draft rumor to be plausible, why else would you build a shorter boat? Lighter, sure. Less sail area, absolutely. More efficient, sure. Together, those changes should provide a faster boat. But shorter?

It's the $$ Million dollar question because if it doesn't match up with Comanche in line honours racing then 88 Feet is a lot of boat to have to win on handicap. His boat his call, 12 feet is too much in my opinion if it's on the wind waterline length wins, just ask the half a dozen maxi's that extended from 98 feet to 100.!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yea just S2H now.

 

Fastnet and Middle Sea have relaxed the mono 100ft rule for 2015, which allows the bigger boats to come play. RORC 600 was always open to 100ft+, so the last race in the Atlantic Ocean Racing Series (AORS) that isn't 100ft+ friendly is the Transat from Newport to Lizard.

 

Edit: would be nice to see the big boys play as well, Mari Cha 3 did the S2h in 1d18hrs37mins way back in 1998, which is only 14mins slower than WOXI in 2012. Sweet video of them with 65ft of the boat out of the water here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks positively pedestrian. Any of the 100 ft canters would destroy the record given '99 conditions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posting private, non viewable for most, vids on a busy forum...pricelessss

 

 

Why don't you try clicking the box that says "Watch on Vimeo" you spoon. It's not private, and it's not geolocked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm263, just to clarify, mari cha 3's record was set in 99, not 98. This was the year that Nokia won line honours and smashed the race record as did brindabella for conventially ballasted boats (still holds this record) I wonder if rio will beat this record this year?

 

Hmm263, just to clarify, mari cha 3's record was set in 99, not 98. This was the year that Nokia won line honours and smashed the race record as did brindabella for conventially ballasted boats (still holds this record) I wonder if rio will beat this record this year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LIstened to Juan at the WYRF last week. He said that draft was the initial controller. With that limit he suggested to the boss that the best size boat for that draft was 88. This also allowed the build to be lighter but you get the righting moment you want and the platform for the rig you want. Makes some sense. Will be interesting to see if it holds together and the theory works.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks positively pedestrian. Any of the 100 ft canters would destroy the record given '99 conditions.

I as much as I love modern super powered up planing boats, there is something special about sending a big beast surfing down the face of a wave which modern boats just miss a bit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LIstened to Juan at the WYRF last week. He said that draft was the initial controller. With that limit he suggested to the boss that the best size boat for that draft was 88. This also allowed the build to be lighter but you get the righting moment you want and the platform for the rig you want. Makes some sense. Will be interesting to see if it holds together and the theory works.

He also said that a non foiling AC72 was quicker than a foiling AC72

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks positively pedestrian. Any of the 100 ft canters would destroy the record given '99 conditions.

 

I should hope so. That was a cruising boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites