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MR.CLEAN

New Cubed - First Supermaxi Since Speedboat

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Haven't seen this posted here yet. Comanche crew list for Hobart.

K Read

S Honey

C Smith

K Harrap

W Fluery

T Mutter

M Trubovich

S Clarkson

R Godfrey

C Smith

J Fanelli

B Macinnes

J Von Schwarz

K Keeley

L Sinclair

C Maxted

D Rolfe

R Clarke

K Worthington

B Bardwell

G Gendell

I name missing. J Spithill. He arrived Tuesday morning. Airport to harbour to chase boat to Comanche for the big boat race.

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Boy, life sure is catching up with publicity fast. Highest IRC rating --> Fail. Kristy to sail to Hobart --> Nope.

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If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

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And what do you mean by fudge component? I.e. how could this fudge be different from one office to the other?

 

Edit: disregard this comment, got an answer in the meantime.

Edit 2: and thanks for the info Daddy

Throw pillows. It's always about the throw pillows.

Agreed. Last IRC boat I was involved with we had our throw pillow cases lined with lead. Dropped us 5 points!

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Haven't seen this posted here yet. Comanche crew list for Hobart.

K Read

S Honey

C Smith

K Harrap

W Fluery

T Mutter

M Trubovich

S Clarkson

R Godfrey

C Smith

J Fanelli

B Macinnes

J Von Schwarz

K Keeley

L Sinclair

C Maxted

D Rolfe

R Clarke

K Worthington

B Bardwell

G Gendell

I name missing. J Spithill. He arrived Tuesday morning. Airport to harbour to chase boat to Comanche for the big boat race.

Jimmy was to sail with Syd in the S2H but pulled out citing an elbow injury. Wouldn't be a good look if he showed up on Comanche for that race...

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Casey Smith appears twice too..... unless the is another C Smith? I know Casey loves a good feed but I can't imagine he'd put himself on the roster twice just for the extra food?

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The IRC Handicap rating of Comanche is not a good sign when compared to Oats if you believe the handicap is a sign of performance. Off course these guys don't race handicap, they race line honours. Now we have a 2004 designed boat that rates faster than a 2014 design. This is relevant to Hobart and Comanche is a manual boat which is legal in other forms of racing. I suspect Jim will not want to be racing Oats too often.

 

http://sailinganarchy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/IRC-Rating.jpg

 

1/ 2014 WOXI is not 2004 WOXI. so it's not a 2004 design v a 2014 design

2/ DSS costs WOXI a fortune in terms of rating, probably more than what it brings in true performance

3/ the power winches v manual ones also blur the picture.

4/ We have no real clue of Comanche's performances off shore

 

Why would Jim Clark not want to race WOXI in real off shore races for which Comanche has been designed? Nothing indicates his boat is on the losing end.

i agree with all points here.

 

According to SA failure to have the highest IRC rating was the subject of the front page. Yes I realise what penalises the Oats rating however Mark Richards is touting the new DSS foil as providing many advantages, some were not expected. My point is that if Oats beats Comanche to Hobart then it opens pandora's box imo. We may never see Oats vs Comanche again but if Oats wins then perhaps the swiss army knife design needs to be revisited. I still think Comanche will be untouchable in the right conditions but the comparison for topic of discussion is fair one.

 

See Below:

 

New DSS Foil is better than they expected. Also they didn't use it during the Big Boat Challenge deliberately to gauge their performance. Now they're saying it provides other benefits even in lighter winds. If this is all true $1.65 for a line honors win is great value. They have all bases covered, a narrow boat that is unbeatable in the light, then when it blows they deploy the DSS foil and they have much added stability and a smoother motion at sea. Oats and their foil options could be the new way to go rather than beam beam beam?

 

http://www.sail-worl...fference/129780

Obviously some psychology going on here too...but taking what Ricko says at face value, DSS delivers for WOXI more than expected and hence could cause some further thinking around the total displacement v stability parameters. Might also be something Syd looks at for Rags 100 at some point as it is also relatively light and skinny.

 

Would be fascinating to see how a designed-for-DSS-from-scratch WOXI would look. DSS wasn't on the horizon when R/P designed the boat. I read somewhere that Hugh W does have plans afoot for a DSS 100 footer but no idea whether this is vapourware at this point or a serious funded proposition.

Hugh said they looked at it and their analysis was that it would look nothing like Comanche with the wide ass. No plans yet though. I think they're focused on the new narrower, fixed keel, IMOCA boats.

 

I agree. One shot ponies might be a thing of the past. And wide asses too.

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I agree. One shot ponies might be a thing of the past. And wide asses too. [/b]

 

 

just put that in your sig line, you like to say it so much !

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Hugh said they looked at it and their analysis was that it would look nothing like Comanche with the wide ass. No plans yet though. I think they're focused on the new narrower, fixed keel, IMOCA boats.

 

I agree. One shot ponies might be a thing of the past. And wide asses too.

 

IMOCA keels are fixed only in the aspect of being one-design. They're still canters.

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I think Terra is referring to Mr Welbourne's article about IMOCA going fixed keel & DSS to save cost & complexity. He said he had drawn some narrower fixed keel DSS IMOCA renderings IIRC.

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Would Oats have a higher rating due to the powered winches?

 

Has a higher rating to due to DSS and Powered Winches

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Would Oats have a higher rating due to the powered winches?

 

Has a higher rating to due to DSS and Powered Winches

plus the extra front dagger board

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If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

 

I told you a week ago Jimmy was going to be sailing on Comanche.

 

And, oh BTW - I did a 3:20 interview with Sally Fitzgibbons today next to the Opera house.

 

;)

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I think they're focused on the new narrower, fixed keel, IMOCA boats.

 

A sphincter says what?

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If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

 

I told you a week ago Jimmy was going to be sailing on Comanche.

 

And, oh BTW - I did a 3:20 interview with Sally Fitzgibbons today next to the Opera house.

 

;)

Did she swallow?

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If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

 

I told you a week ago Jimmy was going to be sailing on Comanche.

 

And, oh BTW - I did a 3:20 interview with Sally Fitzgibbons today next to the Opera house.

 

;)

Did she swallow?

 

She is a delightful young lass and a great interview. Her dad is her handler.

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If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

 

I told you a week ago Jimmy was going to be sailing on Comanche.

 

And, oh BTW - I did a 3:20 interview with Sally Fitzgibbons today next to the Opera house.

 

;)

Did she swallow?

 

She is a delightful young lass and a great interview. Her dad is her handler.

Well at least now you know who the fuck she is... :D

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I think they're focused on the new narrower, fixed keel, IMOCA boats.

A sphincter says what?

The ‘Ultimate’ DSS IMOCA 60

 

According to Hugh Welbourn, an IMOCA 60 that relied even more on its DSS foil for righting moment would be an entirely different animal but unlike most innovations could represent further cost savings for the Class. The canting keel - along with all its added weight and complexity - could be dispensed with in favour of a simpler fixed keel and as a result there would be no need for additional daggerboards to prevent leeway as the keel foil could provide this (as it does on most yachts). Windward performance could be enhanced by fitting a trim tab to the keel, which is permitted for fixed keels under the present IMOCA rule. This would also allow conventional, straight lateral DSS foils to be fitted, which would be more efficient as their sole functions would be to provide vertical lift and increase righting moment.

 

http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore/14/67270/0/dss-foils-to-revolutionise-imoca-60-fleet

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If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

 

I told you a week ago Jimmy was going to be sailing on Comanche.

And, oh BTW - I did a 3:20 interview with Sally Fitzgibbons today next to the Opera house.

 

;)

Did she swallow?

She is a delightful young lass and a great interview. Her dad is her handler.

Well at least now you know who the fuck she is... :D

Everyone knows who she is since she stared in the KFC ads.

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Abbo, your Kamahl line is a classic.

Probably not if you're of Tamil, from Sri Lanka.

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If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

 

I told you a week ago Jimmy was going to be sailing on Comanche.

 

And, oh BTW - I did a 3:20 interview with Sally Fitzgibbons today next to the Opera house.

 

;)

Oh. I thought that was just for big boat. He's definitely on for the Hoedown? Syd will be none too pleased.

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I'll give you the rest of the story then.

 

That quote you cited is not from some kind of objective report on a new technology; it is all from a press release written by Sailing Intelligence (on contract from Hugh), which is made up of Daily Sail editor James Boyd and Andy Rice. So keep that in mind when I tell you that there will never, ever be another fixed keel IMOCA, no matter how many press releases you see touting one. And I'll stay on that limb and say that, if they do end up with outward-facing L-foils, that no one will be calling them DSS anything.

 

 

 

 

 



I think they're focused on the new narrower, fixed keel, IMOCA boats.


A sphincter says what?

The ‘Ultimate’ DSS IMOCA 60

According to Hugh Welbourn, an IMOCA 60 that relied even more on its DSS foil for righting moment would be an entirely different animal but unlike most innovations could represent further cost savings for the Class. The canting keel - along with all its added weight and complexity - could be dispensed with in favour of a simpler fixed keel and as a result there would be no need for additional daggerboards to prevent leeway as the keel foil could provide this (as it does on most yachts). Windward performance could be enhanced by fitting a trim tab to the keel, which is permitted for fixed keels under the present IMOCA rule. This would also allow conventional, straight lateral DSS foils to be fitted, which would be more efficient as their sole functions would be to provide vertical lift and increase righting moment.

http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore/14/67270/0/dss-foils-to-revolutionise-imoca-60-fleet

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Considering she was wearing the shortest shorts I've ever seen...yeah, now I know!

 

 

 

 

 

 

If Jimmy shows up on Comanche Syd will be darker than Kamahl. He's already turned Syd down saying he's getting shoulder surgery.

 

I told you a week ago Jimmy was going to be sailing on Comanche.



And, oh BTW - I did a 3:20 interview with Sally Fitzgibbons today next to the Opera house.

 

;)

Did she swallow?

 

She is a delightful young lass and a great interview. Her dad is her handler.

Well at least now you know who the fuck she is... :D

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Powered winches sure looked like they helped in that simo gybe. From the video it looks like that's where the pass happened - though not 100% clear due to cut shots.

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Powered winches sure looked like they helped in that simo gybe. From the video it looks like that's where the pass happened - though not 100% clear due to cut shots.

Is there a video of this? Would really like to see one of those things gybe.

Another thing, do they usually do inside or outside gybes?

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Powered winches sure looked like they helped in that simo gybe. From the video it looks like that's where the pass happened - though not 100% clear due to cut shots.

Is there a video of this? Would really like to see one of those things gybe.

Another thing, do they usually do inside or outside gybes?

 

video at top of page - watch 4:30-40ish

 

outside gybes

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I'll give you the rest of the story then.

 

That quote you cited is not from some kind of objective report on a new technology; it is all from a press release written by Sailing Intelligence (on contract from Hugh), which is made up of Daily Sail editor James Boyd and Andy Rice. So keep that in mind when I tell you that there will never, ever be another fixed keel IMOCA, no matter how many press releases you see touting one. And I'll stay on that limb and say that, if they do end up with outward-facing L-foils, that no one will be calling them DSS anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think they're focused on the new narrower, fixed keel, IMOCA boats.

 

A sphincter says what?

The ‘Ultimate’ DSS IMOCA 60

According to Hugh Welbourn, an IMOCA 60 that relied even more on its DSS foil for righting moment would be an entirely different animal but unlike most innovations could represent further cost savings for the Class. The canting keel - along with all its added weight and complexity - could be dispensed with in favour of a simpler fixed keel and as a result there would be no need for additional daggerboards to prevent leeway as the keel foil could provide this (as it does on most yachts). Windward performance could be enhanced by fitting a trim tab to the keel, which is permitted for fixed keels under the present IMOCA rule. This would also allow conventional, straight lateral DSS foils to be fitted, which would be more efficient as their sole functions would be to provide vertical lift and increase righting moment.http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore/14/67270/0/dss-foils-to-revolutionise-imoca-60-fleet

Really? That was a press release? I'm so gullible. Thanks. Clean, sometimes you bewilder me as well. Keep up the good fight though.

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Powered winches sure looked like they helped in that simo gybe. From the video it looks like that's where the pass happened - though not 100% clear due to cut shots.

Is there a video of this? Would really like to see one of those things gybe.

Another thing, do they usually do inside or outside gybes?

 

video at top of page - watch 4:30-40ish

 

outside gybes

 

Seems to me like inside gybes and that those kytes are on furlers.

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Some inside some outside. Was surprised to see this divergence.

Good Spot - WOXI inside gybe and much, much quicker. With that in your quiver you're going to roll and pass on simo gybes more often than not.

 

Gotta love push button sailing eh?!

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Powered winches sure looked like they helped in that simo gybe. From the video it looks like that's where the pass happened - though not 100% clear due to cut shots.

Is there a video of this? Would really like to see one of those things gybe.

Another thing, do they usually do inside or outside gybes?

 

Inside: light air

Outside: heavier air

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Want a Comanche t-shirt. Nothing showing yet on Google search. Anyone got the skinny?

Unless you are somehow involved in the project or know somebody on it currently, I think you may be out of luck. It's a private yacht, not a commercial venture.

 

That being said, I hope you find a way to get one. The shirts are pretty cool, having seen them at the launching of her in Maine.

 

Here you go: http://www.spreadshirt.com/comanche-yacht-racing-team-C3376A100780162#/detail/100780162

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From the front page, congrads to Kenny, good to see this stuff. Reminds me when TNZ took the 72 into the Opti fleet so the kids could have a look see.

 

pt-1.jpg

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Taken the scouts past a couple of times to see Comanche and WO at Woolwich. The Comanche guys always have a smile, a greeting and a wave. Even when we make cheeky comments how they think they are going to beat WO and even when they were prepping to leave for SOLAS. Great guys!

 

Haven't been invited on yet :( Maybe its got something to go with the cheeky comments.

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

Wow! on a top down furler?

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Abbo must be consulting for them now.

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

I would love it if that thing was still launched from a bag clipped to the rail. After the douse one poor guy down below trying to run the tapes and put the thing away while the off watch pretends to be very fast asleep.

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

What joker painted Keef Richards on the kite?

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

What joker painted Keef Richards on the kite?

Bravo!

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Good to see, they would have been fucked without it.

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Hey folks. First post here although I've been stalking this thread and others for a little while now. Thanks Soley now all I can see is Keith Richards in any of the Comanche gear. I'm lucky enough to have my office overlooking the Hodgdon yard where Comanche was built. I've got some hometown bias going but no matter what it's going to be a barn burner from Sydney to Hobart this year. Looking forward to keeping up with everything here late on Christmas day on the East Coast.

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Good to see, they would have been fucked without it.

No one ever doubted you, Abbo. ;)

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

How come they've got Keef on the kite?

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Abbo that was a very relaxed reply from you.

That bigger than Loyal's Monster?

Loyal's measures in around 1020...

 

Interestingly Rags 100 has just re-rated without spinnakers

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Abbo that was a very relaxed reply from you.

That bigger than Loyal's Monster?

Loyal's measures in around 1020...

 

Interestingly Rags 100 has just re-rated without spinnakers

 

 

What's the new number? I get the impression they couldn't believe they rated as high as they did (Rags).

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Abbo that was a very relaxed reply from you.

That bigger than Loyal's Monster?

Loyal's measures in around 1020...

 

Interestingly Rags 100 has just re-rated without spinnakers

 

 

What's the new number? I get the impression they couldn't believe they rated as high as they did (Rags).

1.918 - same as their "Non-spinnaker TCC" on the previous cert so I'm assuming that's the reason for the drop.

 

Comanche is also currently rated without spinnakers, even though they're playing with one. Rating dropped from 1.929 to 1.90. Seems decision to use it hasn't yet been made.

 

I'd be guessing they have moved to non-spinnaker ratings as a precautionary measure and will make a call on final configuration a day or so before the race - expect last minute decisions and perhaps certificate revalidations based on the race weather forecast. I take it from this that they realise that the benefit of the loose luffed sail is pretty marginal and focused on a tight and very specific weather window. The rating hit is big. Having the kites already measured and rated makes it a simple parameter change in IRC central, so a rapid turnaround.

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Finding out Comanche has a loose luffed Asso is GOLD!

 

Where are the posters who stuck it to Abbo?

There was a pretty big list, you'd need Brad Pitt to hunt them all down one by one.

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Finding out Comanche has a loose luffed Asso is GOLD!

 

Where are the posters who stuck it to Abbo?

There was a pretty big list, you'd need Brad Pitt to hunt them all down one by one.

Where's Chuck Norris when you need him?

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Abbo that was a very relaxed reply from you.

That bigger than Loyal's Monster?

Loyal's measures in around 1020...

 

Interestingly Rags 100 has just re-rated without spinnakers

 

 

What's the new number? I get the impression they couldn't believe they rated as high as they did (Rags).

1.918 - same as their "Non-spinnaker TCC" on the previous cert so I'm assuming that's the reason for the drop.

 

Comanche is also currently rated without spinnakers, even though they're playing with one. Rating dropped from 1.929 to 1.90. Seems decision to use it hasn't yet been made.

 

I'd be guessing they have moved to non-spinnaker ratings as a precautionary measure and will make a call on final configuration a day or so before the race - expect last minute decisions and perhaps certificate revalidations based on the race weather forecast. I take it from this that they realise that the benefit of the loose luffed sail is pretty marginal and focused on a tight and very specific weather window. The rating hit is big. Having the kites already measured and rated makes it a simple parameter change in IRC central, so a rapid turnaround.

So which is the latter? RC deadline for submitting ratings or the RORC rating office Christmas piss up before they close the doors for the weekend??

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Good to see, they would have been fucked without it.

 

Was Abbo's call from the start..! either that or watch Oats sail over the sunset. Good call. And very relaxed reply mate, suppose that comes from knowing your right..!

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"Look. I mean...how can you beat that thing. It's like a flying pencil!"

post-76289-0-22372700-1418689398_thumb.png

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"Look. I mean...how can you beat that thing. It's like a flying *pencil!"

(*mightier than a sword?)

 

post-76289-0-22372700-1418689398_thumb.p

 

"dang right it is, why don't we try one of those ol' fangled spinnakers?"

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Sure send it through, but I guess you'll have to get you mum to sign for it wont you jnr. Don't worry, tell her its from me, I'm quite certain she remembers me.

 

Sorry - I don't remember you. I must have been too drunk.

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Sure send it through, but I guess you'll have to get you mum to sign for it wont you jnr. Don't worry, tell her its from me, I'm quite certain she remembers me.

 

Sorry - I don't remember you. I must have been too drunk.

:)

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

 

thats a hell of a rag, and great proportions, love to see a time lapse vid of its production.

 

hey, what boat would have a bigger kite than this ????? J-class ? ? ? none ??

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I imagine something like Vertigo? 67m long. Can't find the actual dimensions, but they can run 3350m^2 of cloth downwind.

 

I don't think any of the larger sailing superyachts (M5 / Falcon / Athena / Eos etc) run chutes.

 

Luxury-Yacht-Vertigo-01-910x910.jpg

 

 

Could well be Hetarios though, she runs 829m^2 more sail upwind than Vertigo, can't find how much she carries downwind.

 

2012-07-27-Hetairos-big.jpg

 

IRC rates at a lazy 2.028

 

http://sailingtrivia.ravenyachts.fr/2011/07/hetairos-iii-2011.html

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Good to see, they would have been fucked without it.

 

Was Abbo's call from the start..! either that or watch Oats sail over the sunset. Good call. And very relaxed reply mate, suppose that comes from knowing your right..!

Felt like everyone was off their medication for a while there. I guess common-sense is not all that common.

 

Anyone know for sure if Oat's A4 is loose luffed too?

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"Look. I mean...how can you beat that thing. It's like a flying *pencil!"

(*mightier than a sword?)

 

post-76289-0-22372700-1418689398_thumb.p

 

"dang right it is, why don't we try one of those ol' fangled spinnakers?"

"Don't worry, we'll just get Dirk to hide some lead in it"

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

thats a hell of a rag, and great proportions, love to see a time lapse vid of its production.

 

hey, what boat would have a bigger kite than this ????? J-class ? ? ? none ??

 

 

Perseus^3 stands apart from her peers with both her carbon clearcoat mast – one of the world’s tallest – and for her A2 Spinnaker – the world’s largest sail – measuring in at 28,010 square feet (2,602 square meters). - See more at: http://www.doylesails.com/news/2014/08/perseus3.html#sthash.OACf8ERW.dpuf

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So perhaps a closing of the gap re Oats vs Comanche? Oats has had to reduce the DSS Foil so now they are out of modifications. Comanche builds a monster running kite, I'd say things are evening up if they already weren't. The tension is building, not long to an accurate weather forecast...Ragamuffin the surprise packet..

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So perhaps a closing of the gap re Oats vs Comanche? Oats has had to reduce the DSS Foil so now they are out of modifications. Comanche builds a monster running kite, I'd say things are evening up if they already weren't. The tension is building, not long to an accurate weather forecast...Ragamuffin the surprise packet..

I thought Oat new dss foil was bigger?

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So perhaps a closing of the gap re Oats vs Comanche? Oats has had to reduce the DSS Foil so now they are out of modifications. Comanche builds a monster running kite, I'd say things are evening up if they already weren't. The tension is building, not long to an accurate weather forecast...Ragamuffin the surprise packet..

 

Richards also revealed that a new, maximum sized upwind “Code Zero” headsail, which is scheduled to arrive from America on Thursday, would complete Wild Oats XI’s sail inventory for the race.

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So perhaps a closing of the gap re Oats vs Comanche? Oats has had to reduce the DSS Foil so now they are out of modifications. Comanche builds a monster running kite, I'd say things are evening up if they already weren't. The tension is building, not long to an accurate weather forecast...Ragamuffin the surprise packet..

I thought Oat new dss foil was bigger?

They have reduced it to fit back inside the hull to avoid drag.

 

& yep, time on the water & a seriously big kite are eroding WOXI's advantage.

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

 

thats a hell of a rag, and great proportions, love to see a time lapse vid of its production.

 

hey, what boat would have a bigger kite than this ????? J-class ? ? ? none ??

Mirabella V had a monster set of sails

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Looks like Comanche will be running with a proper loose luff, downwind kite... All 1,100 metres of it!!!

 

10849986_10152432610721673_2797475435036

 

thats a hell of a rag, and great proportions, love to see a time lapse vid of its production.

 

hey, what boat would have a bigger kite than this ????? J-class ? ? ? none ??

Mirabella V had a monster set of sails

What are the chances of blowing this kite?

post-17796-0-99874200-1418729827_thumb.jpg

 

Here some other beautiful flying gennakers

post-17796-0-32850200-1418729790_thumb.jpg

post-17796-0-01391000-1418729804_thumb.jpg

post-17796-0-51413600-1418729815_thumb.jpg

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