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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

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MR.CLEAN

New Cubed - First Supermaxi Since Speedboat

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Some of you blokes love to paraphrase and put words in people's mouths don't you. Well aware of the advantages of a tri on boats below 20, I've probably done more night miles under a tri than deck level. Above 20 however, is not legal so "why bother?" was my question. Then I realised that this particular installation has no stern light at the mast head, so by definition it is not a tricolour, so it is legal, and all the normal advantages of having lights at the mast head apply. I was definitely slow picking up on this, however no one else bothered to set me straight so I suspect I may not have been alone?

 

The problem of light reflecting off the forward sails has become worse in recent times with the advent of laminate chutes and zeros which can be very shiny. The light reflected when on port can be quite blinding at certain angles.

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Some of you blokes love to paraphrase and put words in people's mouths don't you. Well aware of the advantages of a tri on boats below 20, I've probably done more night miles under a tri than deck level. Above 20 however, is not legal so "why bother?" was my question. Then I realised that this particular installation has no stern light at the mast head, so by definition it is not a tricolour, so it is legal, and all the normal advantages of having lights at the mast head apply. I was definitely slow picking up on this, however no one else bothered to set me straight so I suspect I may not have been alone?

 

The problem of light reflecting off the forward sails has become worse in recent times with the advent of laminate chutes and zeros which can be very shiny. The light reflected when on port can be quite blinding at certain angles.

Although annoying, I don't think light reflecting off an assy is the issue. It's more along the lines of it being completely invisible to other boats.

 

Having said that, the running lights just aren't that fascinating to me.

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It's both really, they can't see you and you can't see shit. Last time I remember it happening with a zero it was positively blinding.

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Clean ask them if they'll make it for the Hobart?

 

Its going to be relatively easy to build the fastest IRC Supermaxi around thanks to the advances in tech since loyal was launched. What have they included in the design to make sure the next Supermaxi launched after them isnt faster again & leaves their boat obsolete?

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What's the outlook for crew? Are they going to actively be going out and looking to bring people up in US Offshore sailing or will it be an insular crew of familiar offshore faces.

 

Would be cool to have two or three 22-25 year olds with moderate experience absorbed into the crew and rotated every season or so to learn and contribute and grow.

 

(yes, I know, I'm beating a dead horse but it's a thing I'm passionate about)

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Good tour. Most questions answered. Best thing ever? Cruising option (removable hard dodger). Headed to mt Washington to show the wife that east coast mountains can be big too.

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Good tour. Most questions answered. Best thing ever? Cruising option (removable hard dodger). Headed to mt Washington to show the wife that east coast mountains can be big too.

Billionaires can have their cake & eat it too!

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Ask em about the nave lights

 

I took a good look at those on the top of the rig, they're the crazy high output leds like whats used in surefire flashlights or the high output underwater lights.

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Ask em about the nave lights

 

I took a good look at those on the top of the rig, they're the crazy high output leds like whats used in surefire flashlights or the high output underwater lights.

I was actually taking the piss with that comment but thanks anyway!

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Ask em about the nave lights

 

I took a good look at those on the top of the rig, they're the crazy high output leds like whats used in surefire flashlights or the high output underwater lights.

I was actually taking the piss with that comment but thanks anyway!

Well someone had to look instead of speculate. :P

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facts? on the internet?

fuck off

 

Sorry, they're actually candles the bow monkey has to go up and light at sundown.

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facts? on the internet?

fuck off

Sorry, they're actually candles the bow monkey has to go up and light at sundown.

African or European bow monkey? The internet demands all the facts.

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facts? on the internet?

fuck off

Sorry, they're actually candles the bow monkey has to go up and light at sundown.

African or European bow monkey? The internet demands all the facts.

 

Whichever is made from more carbon.

Righting moment and all yanno.

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What's the outlook for crew? Are they going to actively be going out and looking to bring people up in US Offshore sailing or will it be an insular crew of familiar offshore faces.

 

Would be cool to have two or three 22-25 year olds with moderate experience absorbed into the crew and rotated every season or so to learn and contribute and grow.

 

(yes, I know, I'm beating a dead horse but it's a thing I'm passionate about)

Come on man, be better than this. It just looks, sad :(

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Paint's on the bow. Full image set here. Video and story tonight or tomorrow.

 

Clean, any chance of making the gallery public for us non-Facebook old/young folk?

 

http://imgur.com/a/NpGPW#0

 

Made album of those facebook photos.

 

Good man, thanks. That is a total carbon pornatorium. I think they were one pedestal switch short...

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You know the trouble with carbon boats below is that you can't see a fricken' thing.

 

Do you think all the head torches would weigh more or less than a coat of paint?

Well there going to have torches anyway. $5 says she gets a paint inside later.

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There was a photo with Clean blocking (snigger) the view of a painted section inside, maybe it won't all be a black cave, all of the open spaces in the Speedboat had a coat of paint aside from where the bunks were and forward of the aft keel bulkhead, it still wasn't the brightest of places, felt like a mole sometimes crawling around in there.

 

Saw a big old shipping crate with ReFrescini stamped on the sides arriving yesterday into the shipyard on a flat bed truck, I'd imagine they are the boards for Comanche.

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Looks like any other canting keeler. Haven't seen anything that makes her stand out like Kenny suggests so far. More extrenal secondary bonding than I woudl expect from Tim.

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Thank you to Clean, Meredith and Forss for getting those pictures out.

 

Is it me or does it look like more than two weeks worth of "loose ends" to tie up? My father was at the yard last week (9th) and when asking about the launch was told they should be in by the end of September, but Cleans pictures from Monday (15th) seem to show a good deal of work still to be done before the boat can leave the shed.

 

In looking at the pictures, is it typical on a supermaxi to not fair the taped joints in the cockpit before painting or is that some kind of illusion in image 9?

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I wouldn't be surprised if the boat arrives in Australia with some work still needing to be done. It doesn't have a super flexible schedule so I'd imagine they're getting done everything to ensure it floats and can move with its engine, and when it travels to Newport I'd bet some of the build team will either travel with the boat or meet it in Newport to continue work.

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Work not completed in the shed takes twice as long anywhere else. I'd imagine they will leave it in there as long as they possibly can. Were those white interior panels painted or vynil?

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Work not completed in the shed takes twice as long anywhere else. I'd imagine they will leave it in there as long as they possibly can. Were those white interior panels painted or vynil?

I agree with you.

 

But they have a ship to catch. It has to move on time or it's not making it to Sydney. Word up here in Maine is September 25th. It was originally supposed to be done first week of September.

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Fair enough, I clearly remember a beautiful little carbon 42 footer that I worked on right at the final stages of the build. We had fitted 90 percent of the deck gear and wanted to stay in the shed just one more week to nail it. Owner started jumping up and down that he wanted it down at the boat yard asap to get the keel and rudder fitted. So we rolled it out of the shed on a Sunday night to get ready for a Monday morning truck and crane. It started raining that night and did not stop for nearly two weeks!

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Paint's on the bow. Full image set here. Video and story tonight or tomorrow.

Come on Clean. Is that all you have for us. That is a disgraceful effort. Give us something to chew on. Surely your sitting on heaps of footage / pictures. Dont let us down!!

It wouldn't be a "Clean" tease without failing to follow through on the rest of the story. Don't get your hopes up for a juicy expose on Comanche. Clean would be setting a new record if he actually met the promise he made yesterday. Don't hold your breath.

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Looks like any other canting keeler. Haven't seen anything that makes her stand out like Kenny suggests so far. More extrenal secondary bonding than I woudl expect from Tim.

Got to admit it doesn't look too pretty as it is at the moment..

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I don't think I've ever heard people whinge more about not getting their free shit on time...

 

+1

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I don't think I've ever heard people whinge more about not getting their free shit on time...

nice

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Looks like any other canting keeler. Haven't seen anything that makes her stand out like Kenny suggests so far. More extrenal secondary bonding than I woudl expect from Tim.

Got to admit it doesn't look too pretty as it is at the moment..

 

Only thing even remotely innovative on this one is the single-skin hull with stringers. Never been done on a boat this big, and is significantly lighter than core/panel construction.

 

Otherwise, it is a very conventional canter, designed well to achieve some very specific goals.

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Looks like any other canting keeler. Haven't seen anything that makes her stand out like Kenny suggests so far. More extrenal secondary bonding than I woudl expect from Tim.

Got to admit it doesn't look too pretty as it is at the moment..

 

Only thing even remotely innovative on this one is the single-skin hull with stringers. Never been done on a boat this big, and is significantly lighter than core/panel construction.

 

Otherwise, it is a very conventional canter, designed well to achieve some very specific goals.

 

 

VPLP have been doing single skin in the bow for years......... check out Safran, Groupe Bel etc etc. I would of guessed it had by knowing it was a VPLV design..... nothing new there Mr Clean dude

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Looks like any other canting keeler. Haven't seen anything that makes her stand out like Kenny suggests so far. More extrenal secondary bonding than I woudl expect from Tim.

Got to admit it doesn't look too pretty as it is at the moment..

 

Only thing even remotely innovative on this one is the single-skin hull with stringers. Never been done on a boat this big, and is significantly lighter than core/panel construction.

 

Otherwise, it is a very conventional canter, designed well to achieve some very specific goals.

 

 

VPLP have been doing single skin in the bow for years......... check out Safran, Groupe Bel etc etc. I would of guessed it had by knowing it was a VPLV design..... nothing new there Mr Clean dude

 

Reading comprehension is apparently new.

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Mr Clean, look forward to your video and more photos and I am sure you were quite thorough with your questions and analysis, but I can't imagine that there is anything about this boat that isn't remarkable. And knowing the people involved with the program (K Read, Guillaume Verdier, all the PUMA boys) it would be shocking if a few things don't really stand out when this boat starts coming together that makes us all take notice. Can't wait to see this boat put together. Really hope they don't run out of time to make all this work prior to S-H. Ask them to take you for a sail in October to follow up on your Maine trip and maybe we can get more inside info to bring out the "remarkable".

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Clean, can you confirm , it's only monolithic in the bow sections? If so then yes it has been done before, a long time ago on a much bigger boat, Mari Cha 4.

 

If it's mono for the entire hull then yes that is something fairly new, and probably never don on that scale.

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If it's mono for the entire hull then yes that is something fairly new, and probably never don on that scale.

Other than for pretty much every aluminum boat ever built :)

 

Skin and stringers is back to old school.

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The reason this boat is "remarkable" compared to the other 100's is that it's based upon several successful Open 60's and the developments in that class. Perpetual Loyal is based off the VO70 class, and Wild Oats XI and Esimit Europa were further development of the MaxZ86 concept (though WOXI now only shares hull form with the Z86's after all her mods). So it's remarkably stable compared to most of the other big boats. 27 foot beam is pretty crazy if you look at previous supermaxis (PL is 24.7' wide) but if you look at the hull form and compare it to an Open 60 the length to beam ratio would look right.

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Horses for courses Captain Jack. What's more interesting was the trend towards narrow boats, Oats was built as a development of Alfa and was very narrow at the time of build. The Imoca and Volvo along with certain circumstances saw beam introduced for stability which was relevant to the courses/legs stipulated by race organizers. I think Oats has been a beneficiary of latest thinking in terms of foil/ballast technology along with an unsurpassed budget and development program . Through this development she has been able to stay ahead of beamier boats such as Loyal due to the conditions of the race. She has proven to be the best all rounder. Opportunities exist within design windows to develop a faster boat but not a better all rounder just yet imo.

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Mr Clean, look forward to your video and more photos and I am sure you were quite thorough with your questions and analysis, but I can't imagine that there is anything about this boat that isn't remarkable.

 

 

Have to disagree - for someone who pokes around every new boat, the boat is quite unremarkable in her design. A few interesting solutions that you'll see on the video (mostly done), but very, very conventional. And surely, very fucking fast!

 

I'm sure I'll get to go out for a ride when we are in the same place and already Casey invited me aboard to do a proper rig/deck walkthrough like we did on the Speedboat but with him narrating.

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If WOXI's narrowness is such an advantage, why isn't anyone building a similarly shaped 100'er? Surely a clean sheet design with the same general philosphy could improve on it.

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If WOXI's narrowness is such an advantage, why isn't anyone building a similarly shaped 100'er? Surely a clean sheet design with the same general philosphy could improve on it.

The guys writing the checks aren't looking for that type of maxi. Maximus, Speedboat, the new Rambler and Comanche are all post Alfa and Oats in '05 and the school of thought has been to make them wider and wider.

 

Given a reaching race, these newer wider boats should be faster than Oats. However she seems to be faster on the wind and off of it.

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If WOXI's narrowness is such an advantage, why isn't anyone building a similarly shaped 100'er? Surely a clean sheet design with the same general philosphy could improve on it.

it seems easier for Oz owners to stomach rebuilding or refitting an existing 100'er than dealing with a new build. No customers therefore for an improved version of a design optimized for the one race.

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If it's mono for the entire hull then yes that is something fairly new, and probably never don on that scale.

Other than for pretty much every aluminum boat ever built :)

 

Skin and stringers is back to old school.

Well obviously! I did my offshore apprenticeship on an alloy boat.

 

And Captain Jack, 27 ft beam on a 100 fter is still way skinnier that the IOR maxi's. Drumbeat / Congere for example was 82 loa and 28 ft beam. If you were on the rail at BMAX and had a look down to leeward it was pretty frightening when she had some heel on!

 

The Z86's and RP 100's especially are INCREDIBLY narrow boats. I reckon the ORMA 60's, VO70's and Speedboat just look wide because max beam is at (or very close too) the transom.

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Well then, she aint nothin new at all. Mari Char 4 did it years ago and is 40 feet bigger. And I'm sure she there were plenty of smaller ones before her.

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The Z86's and RP 100's especially are INCREDIBLY narrow boats. I reckon the ORMA 60's, VO70's and Speedboat just look wide because max beam is at (or very close too) the transom.

agreed.

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Any sign of the video yet? Or is going to be a repeat of the ENTZ one?

Monday.

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The Z86's and RP 100's especially are INCREDIBLY narrow boats. I reckon the ORMA 60's, VO70's and Speedboat just look wide because max beam is at (or very close too) the transom.

agreed.

 

People seem to forget that the Orma 60 and VO70 have rules built in to them that limit the righting moment available due to the canting keel. The result is designers look for righting moment in other ways, the easiest of which is by adding form stability through beam and a chined hull. As there is no such thing as a "super-maxi" rule there is little need other than fashion to go in this direction.

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Wild Oats fanboys are like the Yankees fans of the sailing world.

 

Abbo's right - this is getting tired. And I don't even know who the Yankees are.

 

I wouldn't class myself as a WOXI "fanboy" but I sure as hell respect the program and the people involved in it. But then, I have respect for Grant Warrington and his "Wild Thing" team also - I expect they would be utterly beneath your contempt.

 

But as the self-professed best big-boat sailor of your generation, I'm sure you've been invited to sail the Transpac on WOXI next year - or are you already signed up for Rio?

 

You need to grow up Wes. And it would be for the best if you do it quietly. Thanks.

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The Z86's and RP 100's especially are INCREDIBLY narrow boats. I reckon the ORMA 60's, VO70's and Speedboat just look wide because max beam is at (or very close too) the transom.

agreed.

 

People seem to forget that the Orma 60 and VO70 have rules built in to them that limit the righting moment available due to the canting keel. The result is designers look for righting moment in other ways, the easiest of which is by adding form stability through beam and a chined hull. As there is no such thing as a "super-maxi" rule there is little need other than fashion to go in this direction.

 

IMOCA 60, right?

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