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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Barnyb

Team France

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Exactly. That's the way my translation reads: "We have achieved zero budget so far. But at least the 100% remaining is 70% less than it used to be".

 

Coutts may have saved BAR at the expense of LR. But it seems that TF is as unlikely as ever.

 

I don't know. Groupama had no interest in ponying up the kind of dosh that was necessary to build an AC62 campaign, but as discussed, they may be willing to pony up for a much smaller investment. Problem is, even if Team France makes the line, it is still very much arguably a net loss to keep France but lose Luna Rossa.

I don't agree, if Cammas makes the line he will be one of the toughest competitor.

Also it is not LR vs TF, it's LR vs BAR, TF and perhaps Autralia, China, Japan.

 

Going further, why do we presume that LR could have made it to the line? I find it amazing that, in the AC which is a power game, they refuse the CoR, complain not to be able to decide and then retire.

It might be because of Russell, as some are saying, but it's the fucking AC after all.

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(Team Japan + Team Australia + Team Germany + Team France) < Luna Rossa

 

Not in One-Design boats, just sayin'.

 

Bring the level of the event down to OD, then the loss of a better team means less. (PLEASE note that this is a rip at the Organizers, not defending them)

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(Team Japan + Team Australia + Team Germany + Team France) < Luna Rossa

Disagree

 

LR, and the Prada brand, and the Italian interest, is a big blow. To the event authority anyway, not necessarily to me as a fan or the other competitors.

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(Team Japan + Team Australia + Team Germany + Team France) < Luna Rossa

Luna Rossa was a formidable competitor but they did not have the nerves. Sad for the sailors and the Italian fans.

 

Now Russell HAS to integrate new teams and, if neccessary, cut the costs even more, no team will complain and he has no choice..

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Now Russell HAS to integrate new teams and, if neccessary, cut the costs even more, no team will complain and he has no choice..

 

No he doesn't HAVE to. He's the holder and may do as he pleases. There seems to be a general view that the recent changes are a single event. I'm not sure that this is the case, and I think we will see further changes in time to achieve the primary goal, which is a successful defence by OR. The recent changes have been quite successful in advancing this goal.

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Hoping on TF at the expense of LR is the most stupid move one can do. Only incapable managers such as Coutts can do so.

TF is and will be nowhere.

 

Hope they did not vote. If they did, what a joke.

hmmm, you may want to research that near a toilet

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Screw LR. They put themselves in a position for a majority vote for changes. They could have been COR and maintained some control. Now they dont like a vote so they quit. If they were so far advanced in design towards the 62, then they were also further along than anyone else in foil development and control (basically what the ac62 was about). If they quit, then they werent as far advanced as advertised. Quit while you have the illusion of being ahead.

Bye, bye LR. 2 cycles with the same boat will be a different story in 2020.

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Seems to me that LR was also concerned about if major changes would continue; ones that, like with the Rule, they didn't anticipate could happen.

 

I think the organizers missed a chance to do something to assure them that some items will from now on have to be unanimous, to assuage that fear. Even Patrizio says LR proposed a smaller boat (55') so I don't think that 'a smaller boat' was actually the heart of his problem.

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And Dalton wants a qualifier in NZ that the city cant figure out how to hold, and if they do, nobodys coming

When it comes down to it, qualifier or not, when the NZ gov figures out nobody is going to show the money will disappear.

Go with the budget cup AC48 and see if you can collect some LR leftovers ETNZ/Prada

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SR I see your point. But that really doesn't hold either. LR agreed to a smaller boat, just not as small as was voted in. If not my way the highway? The only thing unexpected was the winning size. It was agreed the rule would change. It was unanamous that they vote on a smaller boat. A majority wanted a 48 compared to 1 who wanted a 55 and 1 who just wants some government cheese.

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I'm convinced that the city ran out of time, never did figure out how to meet the 'Heads of Agreement' stipulations in the bid. We heard the ATEED guy say as much, just two weeks ago, about them struggling to find base locations.

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SR I see your point. But that really doesn't hold either. LR agreed to a smaller boat, just not as small as was voted in. If not my way the highway? The only thing unexpected was the winning size. It was agreed the rule would change. It was unanamous that they vote on a smaller boat. A majority wanted a 48 compared to 1 who wanted a 55 and 1 who just wants some government cheese.

His complaint wasn't just length - it was the one design platform.

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(Team Japan + Team Australia + Team Germany + Team France) < Luna Rossa

Disagree

 

LR, and the Prada brand, and the Italian interest, is a big blow. To the event authority anyway, not necessarily to me as a fan or the other competitors.

 

 

There will be no Germany or Australia in the next AC by the way. Germany targeting AC36 and Australia not sayin' when. Oatley's won't get back in bed on anything that Russell is involved with.

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You get the feeling that, after starting late last time, Bertelli went all in to get the jump this time. And, when he asked Max if that was working as an advantage, he got assured Yes.

 

With the change, he figured the rug had been pulled from under him. Lucy picked up the ball.

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Team France is another lapdog of Russell Coutts. No one has seen anything from Team France to make anyone believe they are a serious challenger. Yet here they are getting involved in every vote, putting their 10 cents into every press release and affecting the way the next AC is being run, then scurry away into silence until the next vote or press release is announced. Seems they're just a ficticious challenger who are there to simply make up a majority for ACEA. They better be worth the sacrifice of Luna Rossa.

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TF, even if they make it now - which I seriously doubt, will never make up for the loss of LR. Certainly not in this cycle anyway.

 

The supposed Japan and whoever-all other wannabes too, it's a silly proposition for this time around at this late stage.

 

The best we can hope for is a very strong competition between ETNZ, BAR, and AR. And a decent Defense attempt against whoever wins that shindig.

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Team France is another lapdog of Russell Coutts. No one has seen anything from Team France to make anyone believe they are a serious challenger. Yet here they are getting involved in every vote, putting their 10 cents into every press release and affecting the way the next AC is being run, then scurry away into silence until the next vote or press release is announced. Seems they're just a ficticious challenger who are there to simply make up a majority for ACEA. They better be worth the sacrifice of Luna Rossa.

The only reason why they vote is because LR asked for it. They knew the strength of each player when they decided to do it. And nobody complained at the time.

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You get the feeling that, after starting late last time, Bertelli went all in to get the jump this time. And, when he asked Max if that was working as an advantage, he got assured Yes.

 

With the change, he figured the rug had been pulled from under him. Lucy picked up the ball.

 

That is quite perceptive, Stinger.

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LR's move looks like a spoiled-child tantrum.

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LR's move looks like a spoiled-child tantrum.

 

Maybe, but when you've been ass fucked a dozen times, it can be time to take your ball and go home.

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LR's move looks like a spoiled-child tantrum.

Maybe, but when you've been ass fucked a dozen times, it can be time to take your ball and go home.

 

And you would know - tell us all about it.

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LR's move looks like a spoiled-child tantrum.

 

Maybe, but when you've been ass fucked a dozen times, it can be time to take your ball and go home.

 

 

Or even the whole sack.

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LR's move looks like a spoiled-child tantrum.

 

Maybe, but when you've been ass fucked a dozen times, it can be time to take your ball and go home.

 

and without even so much as a reach around!

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Team France is another lapdog of Russell Coutts. No one has seen anything from Team France to make anyone believe they are a serious challenger. Yet here they are getting involved in every vote, putting their 10 cents into every press release and affecting the way the next AC is being run, then scurry away into silence until the next vote or press release is announced. Seems they're just a ficticious challenger who are there to simply make up a majority for ACEA. They better be worth the sacrifice of Luna Rossa.

 

Hey, they figure it worked so well with HIYC, most people still haven't noticed - so why change tactics!

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Anything interesting? (video, French, Cammas)

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2lu7pb

 

EXTRAIT - Le navigateur français, à la recherche de partenaires financiers, a l'ambition de porter haut les couleurs de la France à la Coupe de l'America.

Invité : Franck Cammas, navigateur

Gtran: EXTRACT - French sailor, looking for financial partners, has the ambition to wear the colors of France to the America's Cup.

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Thanks. He tries to explain the french public what they do and why they should compete. Quote: we are now working on a new cheaper offer to make to our propect sponsors.

 

 

TC - you missed the most important part - where he says Team France is getting Oracle's design and Oracle collaboration. I've transcribed the French, translated it and posted it here: http://tinyurl.com/qfjebpw

 

SR: the first video link you posted is just a shorter version of the second video. The first link does not include the part where FC says they are getting Oracle's design.

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Thanks. He tries to explain the french public what they do and why they should compete. Quote: we are now working on a new cheaper offer to make to our propect sponsors.

 

 

TC - you missed the most important part - where he says Team France is getting Oracle's design and Oracle collaboration. I've transcribed the French, translated it and posted it here: http://tinyurl.com/qfjebpw

 

SR: the first video link you posted is just a shorter version of the second video. The first link does not include the part where FC says they are getting Oracle's design.

 

Thanks Jack, I had missed this one. In fact he says:

- we will share the design

- they will collaborate with us

- we are sure to get the best boat

- year budget will be 7 M euros, which is more affordable for french sponsors

- we are working on a new offfer

 

IMO, Cammas should that that, even they are working with Oracle, it's still the AC, so he shouldn't expect to have the "best boat". RC has enough experience to give what he wants within the agreement.

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Memories of the very first ACWS in Cascais (right, Rennie?) and the loudspeaker blaring: "This is .... the America's Cup!"

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Memories of the very first ACWS in Cascais (right, Rennie?) and the loudspeaker blaring: "This is .... the America's Cup!"

 

Fine memories indeed. Of the first race especially, force zero, duller than watching paint dry. So much for the "Fastest sailors in the fastest boats". Then out of the harbor, to the open sea. So much for "stadium racing". Ha, pathetic.

 

It went better from there on, tho.

 

Highlight: Meeting Xlot, Nulo and Jack.

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Thanks. He tries to explain the french public what they do and why they should compete. Quote: we are now working on a new cheaper offer to make to our propect sponsors.

 

 

TC - you missed the most important part - where he says Team France is getting Oracle's design and Oracle collaboration. I've transcribed the French, translated it and posted it here: http://tinyurl.com/qfjebpw

 

SR: the first video link you posted is just a shorter version of the second video. The first link does not include the part where FC says they are getting Oracle's design.

 

Thanks Jack, I had missed this one. In fact he says:

- we will share the design

- they will collaborate with us

- we are sure to get the best boat

- year budget will be 7 M euros, which is more affordable for french sponsors

- we are working on a new offfer

 

IMO, Cammas should that that, even they are working with Oracle, it's still the AC, so he shouldn't expect to have the "best boat". RC has enough experience to give what he wants within the agreement.

 

a poodle

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Memories of the very first ACWS in Cascais (right, Rennie?) and the loudspeaker blaring: "This is .... the America's Cup!"

 

Fine memories indeed. Of the first race especially, force zero, duller than watching paint dry. So much for the "Fastest sailors in the fastest boats". Then out of the harbor, to the open sea. So much for "stadium racing". Ha, pathetic.

 

It went better from there on, tho.

 

Highlight: Meeting Xlot, Nulo and Jack.

 

Yes, that was a highlight for me, too.

Enjoyed meeting all of you!

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Thanks. He tries to explain the french public what they do and why they should compete. Quote: we are now working on a new cheaper offer to make to our propect sponsors.

 

 

TC - you missed the most important part - where he says Team France is getting Oracle's design and Oracle collaboration. I've transcribed the French, translated it and posted it here: http://tinyurl.com/qfjebpw

 

SR: the first video link you posted is just a shorter version of the second video. The first link does not include the part where FC says they are getting Oracle's design.

 

Thanks Jack, I had missed this one. In fact he says:

- we will share the design

- they will collaborate with us

- we are sure to get the best boat

- year budget will be 7 M euros, which is more affordable for french sponsors

- we are working on a new offfer

 

IMO, Cammas should that that, even they are working with Oracle, it's still the AC, so he shouldn't expect to have the "best boat". RC has enough experience to give what he wants within the agreement.

 

a poodle

 

During AC34 did you call LR the TNZ poodle and AR the Oracle poodle ?

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LR and ETNZ were both challs, who worked together to dislodge the precious from its home in ... well that's another thread :).

 

and of course the "full disclosure of load testing" to AR and OR of all teams data when mandated by IM alphabet made AR a poodle from then on...

 

If LR got a boat from OR and collaboration from same and expected to be a taken seriously as a chall...call em what you want, but not a serious chall.

 

IMHO

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LR had a design very close from TNZ and collaborated with them, AR and OR collaborated o together, IMO they were not poodles like Vincenzo Onorato or HIYC.

 

TF is not a poodle, just a weak team financially that could be one of the best if they can splash a boat.

 

I would really enjoy seeing TNZ, OR, AR, TF and BAR competing on the water, all strong teams.

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LR had a design very close from TNZ and collaborated with them, AR and OR collaborated o together, IMO they were not poodles like Vincenzo Onorato or HIYC.

 

TF is not a poodle, just a weak team financially that could be one of the best if they can splash a boat.

 

I would really enjoy seeing TNZ, OR, AR, TF and BAR competing on the water, all strong teams.

As would I;

but

LR did not have much of chance last time, they knew they were late and "bought design", (wonder if TF has had to pony cash for boat and collaboration?), with the stated plan of a 2 cycle challenge.

ETNZ sold them boat 1, but of course had already deve'd B2 well beyond that, which was to their advantage.

OR will play the same book of course.

Was it really enjoyable watching ETNZ and LR compete?

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LR had a design very close from TNZ and collaborated with them, AR and OR collaborated o together, IMO they were not poodles like Vincenzo Onorato or HIYC.

 

TF is not a poodle, just a weak team financially that could be one of the best if they can splash a boat.

 

I would really enjoy seeing TNZ, OR, AR, TF and BAR competing on the water, all strong teams.

Fuck you - TF is a total poodle and you know it. you are so highly biased as a frog it's not funny. Blow it out your ass.

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LR had a design very close from TNZ and collaborated with them, AR and OR collaborated o together, IMO they were not poodles like Vincenzo Onorato or HIYC.

 

TF is not a poodle, just a weak team financially that could be one of the best if they can splash a boat.

 

I would really enjoy seeing TNZ, OR, AR, TF and BAR competing on the water, all strong teams.

As would I;

but

LR did not have much of chance last time, they knew they were late and "bought design", (wonder if TF has had to pony cash for boat and collaboration?), with the stated plan of a 2 cycle challenge.

ETNZ sold them boat 1, but of course had already deve'd B2 well beyond that, which was to their advantage.

OR will play the same book of course.

Was it really enjoyable watching ETNZ and LR compete?

 

Nope...

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Design of the foils is totally open

 

Not really, because the board case is one-design (< 4mm tolerance, anyway). So chord, rake, and a lot of other shit are heavily constrained.

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From my very limited exposure to French sailing, there is massive interest and participation in sailing here, but very little interest in round the cans sailing other than Olympic training in Olympic classes or feeder classes for a limited few.

You might want to look at the vast entry for Spi Ouest, which is a round the cans regatta.

 

Personally I've travelled to France for regatta-type sailing quite a few times. There's plenty going on.

 

There are many events like Spi Ouest, Carnac, the Raids, etc, which are international events and are well supported, but the majority of clubs here do not run any regular racing for their club members every weekend, or Wednesday evening, or whatever. Coming from the UK club culture this has been a real surprise to me.

 

in many places there are "entrainements d'hiver" every week or fortnight.

 

Lots of "pay to play" training events around, but I'm referring to regular club racing for members using ther own boats.

 

Evefry fortnight club such as St Malo, Dinard, la Trinité or Le Crouesty organise racing opened to boat owners. I know these one because I've trained on these but if you search, you will find others. The magic words to google are "entrainements d'hiver", "Challenge d'Automne" and "Challenge de Printemps".

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LR had a design very close from TNZ and collaborated with them, AR and OR collaborated o together, IMO they were not poodles like Vincenzo Onorato or HIYC.

 

TF is not a poodle, just a weak team financially that could be one of the best if they can splash a boat.

 

I would really enjoy seeing TNZ, OR, AR, TF and BAR competing on the water, all strong teams.

Fuck you - TF is a total poodle and you know it. you are so highly biased as a frog it's not funny. Blow it out your ass.

 

 

Really? Is that necessary? Sheesh. I very often disagree with TC, and agree with you on AC issues, but why the hell can't you just lay off TC, EVER? TC makes a good post, here, with good points and not in the least bit insulting to OR, and rather than just joining the discussion, or just ignoring it, you have to rip into him? I know it's anarchy and all, but your gripe with TC has become more than just a little tiresome, and lately you have been the one that has been the problem.

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That article was good when quoting directly:

--

"We have some very good news: the Americans, Oracle, have decided to share their design and to collaborate with Team France," Cammas said.

 

"So that lets us make up a lot of time and we'll be sure to have the best boat, if we compete. So that will let us make up a lot of time and give us a certain level of technical credibility."

--

The rest? Meh..

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That article was good when quoting directly:

--

"We have some very good news: the Americans, Oracle, have decided to share their design and to collaborate with Team France," Cammas said.

 

"So that lets us make up a lot of time and we'll be sure to have the best boat, if we compete. So that will let us make up a lot of time and give us a certain level of technical credibility."

--

The rest? Meh..

The part you mention is a copy of post 334

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Open collaboration with Team France.

 

So - for tens of millions of Euros - you can show up in Bermuda (where again?) and race for the America's Cup.

 

Bermuda could have fluky conditions. So I believe sailing skill and luck will matter. But the competition gots skills too. And the "giver of the design" is virtually guaranteed to hold something back.

 

So, for a price, you can race on TV in an awesome boat - but not of your country's design. And you cannot - really - contest the prize. Will Groupama bite?

 

IMO Coutts has made some big moves to build AC35:

- Dumbed down the design to save BAR

- Given away IP to bring France and Japan in

 

It's 4th and long. And Coutts - deep within his own end zone - has lobbed a Hail Mary...

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Good news for fans of Team France and the America's Cup with broadcast news for France and over 50 other French-speaking territories.

Et en français :

LE GROUPE CANAL+ ANNONCE L’ACQUISITION DES DROITS INTERNATIONAUX DE L’AMERICA’S CUP SUR PLUS DE 50 TERRITOIRES

CANAL+ se félicite d’avoir acquis les droits de diffusion de l’America’s Cup pour plus de 50 territoires incluant la France, Monaco, et la Suisse francophone.

Avec ce nouvel accord, les chaînes CANAL+ diffuseront les courses en direct ainsi que les temps forts de toutes les étapes, conduisant à l’AMERICA’S CUP 2017.

Les premières épreuves débuteront en juillet 2015 à Portsmouth-Royaume Uni, avec les AMERICA’S CUP WORLD SERIES 2015-2016, la Red Bull Youth America’s Cup, et à partir de mai 2017 aux Bermudes, les qualifications, demi-finales et finales des challengers qui donneront le droit au vainqueur d’affronter en juin 2017 ORACLE TEAM USA, le dernier vainqueur dans la Coupe de L’America.

« Nous sommes ravis de partager une nouvelle fois ce partenariat avec le Groupe CANAL+ et nous réjouissons de l’engagement du public francophone dans le Monde au regard du succès de la dernière Coupe. CANAL+ nous a prouvé son fort engagement et donnera une visibilité importante à l’ensemble de nos évènements » a commenté Harvey Schiller, commissaire commercial de l’AMERICA’S CUP.

« Le Groupe CANAL+ est fier de diffuser à nouveau l’AMERICA’S CUP dans plus de 50 pays et de proposer à ses abonnés français et internationaux ce spectacle exceptionnel.

L’haletante compétition de l’AMERICA’S CUP de 2013 reste dans les mémoires de nos abonnés. Nous sommes certains que la prochaine Coupe de l’America sera à la hauteur de sa réputation avec de nouveaux bateaux, de nouvelles équipes et de nouveaux formats de course dans les différentes étapes des AMERICA’S CUP WORLD SERIES toutes aussi excitantes que la finale aux Bermudes en 2017 », a déclaré Maxime Saada, Directeur Général Adjoint du Groupe CANAL+ en charge de l’édition des chaînes payantes.

L’AMERICA’S CUP sera diffusée en direct sur CANAL+ SPORT ainsi que dans son intégralité sur CANAL+A LA DEMANDE

Les America’s Cup World Séries s’ouvriront avec trois évènements en 2015, le premier à Portsmouth-Royaume Uni, les 25 et 26 juillet prochains.

 

Team France

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A step forward for TF would be to pay the entry fee to show they are actually serious. Cammas must have seriously sucked some cock to be allowed to continue to get away with this, or maybe he sent the team fanboys to bend over and expose the chocolate starfish.

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Perhaps the entry fee is only applicable to the teams that were dumb enough to formally enter months before they even knew where it was going to be. So presume the Japs will not have to front up either.

 

To be honest this was the point that all the teams became self serving poodles, why not just tell Oracle to take a jump until they could at least say where it was going to be held. The only reason was to protect their feed trough, since then the only one that has come to their senses is LR. The rest are just a bunch of self serving assholes.

 

Yes Oracle are doing an Attilla the Hun on the cup and this is disgraceful. However the so called challengers need to also take some responsibility for just sitting back and letting it happen. I hope that the future judges these sycophants as harshly as Rus, Larry and Oracle.

 

In the mean time I think they need to design a new class flag, I would suggest a white poodle on a white background.

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A step forward for TF would be to pay the entry fee to show they are actually serious.

 

Is there any concrete evidence they have not? Or is it just an oft-repeated presumption here?

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My understanding is that Groupama paid TF's entry fee and is sponsoring their ACWS boat. What TF is lacking is the money to build (now purchase from OR) and develop an AC48, then campaign it in Bermuda. A big portion of their expenses seemed to have been taken care of. Their financial position really isn't as bad as many make it out to be. They are not there yet,but pretty close.

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My understanding is that Groupama paid TF's entry fee and is sponsoring their ACWS boat. What TF is lacking is the money to build (now purchase from OR) and develop an AC48, then campaign it in Bermuda. A big portion of their expenses seemed to have been taken care of. Their financial position really isn't as bad as many make it out to be. They are not there yet,but pretty close.

 

Stop it! Stop it! You are going to ruin everything for the bitch-moan-and-fling-shit crowd around here.

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My understanding is that Groupama paid TF's entry fee and is sponsoring their ACWS boat. What TF is lacking is the money to build (now purchase from OR) and develop an AC48, then campaign it in Bermuda. A big portion of their expenses seemed to have been taken care of. Their financial position really isn't as bad as many make it out to be. They are not there yet,but pretty close.

 

Stop it! Stop it! You are going to ruin everything for the bitch-moan-and-fling-shit crowd around here.

 

Right, why let facts get in the way a good conspiracy

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My understanding is that Groupama paid TF's entry fee and is sponsoring their ACWS boat. What TF is lacking is the money to build (now purchase from OR) and develop an AC48, then campaign it in Bermuda. A big portion of their expenses seemed to have been taken care of. Their financial position really isn't as bad as many make it out to be. They are not there yet,but pretty close.

 

Stop it! Stop it! You are going to ruin everything for the bitch-moan-and-fling-shit crowd around here.

 

Right, why let facts get in the way a good conspiracy

 

Apologies for my comment on the entry fee, my mistake, however I am not to sure what the conspiracy theory is about. The AC has been changed dramatically from its origins

- world series that must be sailed in at large expense

- defender sailing with challengers just before the main event

- event sailed in a different country

- new boat half way through (by a legal but dodgy means)

- almost completely one design

 

These are all facts I would have thought, but please educate me if I have erred.

 

Some AC fans find that these changes are good and will lead to the cup surviving in the future. That this will bring large numbers of teams and TV will pay lots and all will be good in the world of sailing.

 

Some people believe that the changes are detrimental to the AC and that it will lose its appeal. That it was never meant to be a pro circuit. I am certainly in this camp at the moment but prepared to listen to reasoned argument and hope I am wrong.

 

For me one of the most exciting parts was tghe buildup to the first race, when it started to become clear who had bought a knife to a gun fight and who had the gatling gun. Who had done the out of the box stuff that changes sailing. Know it is who does a little tweak on a foil. Many people on the side of these changes complain about the old IACC boats and how there was so much money spent to gain such a small amount of speed. What is the difference here, at least the IACC had a number of areas to play with, these new machines can change one. Then a big deal is made that it will make it all about the sailors. Since when has this ever been the case. If it is to be made about the sailors and not the design and build surely we should remove the built in country clause and make it sailed by sailors from the country.

 

But I still see no sign of a conspiracy. However I will try and refrain from the bitch and fling shit stuff. Although this can be difficult as what I may consider acceptable is not always considered to be so by some of the pro boys who seem to attack anyone who is concerned with the direction Oracle and the cup are taking.

It shall be interesting seeing how this all pans out over the next decade, will an AC circuit be the answer that will work or will it just fade away with the cup gathering dust until someone gets their club excited about the idea of giving it a go. The two sides of this argument will just need to be patient before we get the answer.

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a rough G-Tran of

http://www.voilesetvoiliers.com/course-regate/chasseur-de-coupes-franck-cammas/keyword_id=15759/

 

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OLYMPIC GAMES, AMERICA'S CUP, TOUR DE FRANCE, LITTLE CUP ...
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0 comment (s) Published: 04/25/2015 - 0:01 Dominic Bourgeois A-AA +
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While Franck Cammas and Sophie de Turckheim complete the first stage of the ISAF World Cup in Hyeres in Nacra 17, the Groupama skipper explains on its 2015 season particularly eventful and dense intensity: Nacra 17, Diam 24, AC-45, Little Cup! And that's probably in mid-year that the future will settle with the decision whether or not to commit for the next America's Cup on the new prototype 48-foot one-design now supporting the sailing Grail ...
Franck Cammas
At 41, Franck Cammas multiplies experiences this season only multihull: Nacra 17, Diam 24, Class C, Ac-45.
@ FFV Photo
Voilesetvoiliers.com: You coves your third season Nacra 17 ...
Franck Cammas: With Sophie de Turckheim there are exactly two years, we conducted our first race here in Hyères. This was pretty well even though we had to abandon the last day because Sophie was hurt. And this year, the best season begins because now more versatile: they gained weight which allows us to be closer to other duos. We are still among the lightest, but the delta is small: we still have gaps in the breeze so far this shortfall by a template that favors us in light airs. And tactically, we are rather well in light air ...
Voilesetvoiliers.com: In what areas have you improved the most?
FC: The Nacra 17 is always a difficult and fickle boat: they increased compared to ourselves but we must improve faster than others so that the results are felt. More time you spend on the water, you feel more comfortable. Compared to the limit beyond which we see that the steering takes over racing game it is found that every quarter we have rejected: now in fifteen knots, you can really racing unhindered by our technical maneuvers by our ability to address a transition. And we know that above twenty knots, almost everyone is in trouble! But I have found that runners who come from the 49er are more comfortable with the image of Iker Martinez: balancing, control of capsizing.
Nacra 17-Cammas
Olympism is a demanding great discipline: three years of preparation are not too many, especially to fit a new series, but in addition, multiply the training rides.
Photo @ Barbara Sanchez-ISAF
Voilesetvoiliers.com: Last season you were still four crews claiming Olympic Team France ...
FC: A duo stopped (Mathieu and Audrey): we are only three in a pseudo-France team because actually, there is Billy Besson and Marie Riou integrated on paper because it is the only crew who made the quotas last season. This means that other duos are not supported in the same way by the French Sailing Federation. For our part, we are not helped but we are directly integrated into the team, which gives us access to the drives.
Nacra 17-Cammas
Franck Cammas has called on Bertrand Pacé as individual coach to correct the slight speed deficit in the breeze with the aim of selection for the Rio Olympics in 2016!
Photo @ Yvan Zedda Groupama
Voilesetvoiliers.com: You took a private coach ...
FC: We are freer and in recent weeks we have appealed to Bertrand Pacé following us particularly. You should know that with the exception of France and Australia, all national teams utilize special coaches: it's hard to keep three teams at the same time because they do not have the same needs. And then the next step for us is to beat a French duo to qualify. Then it will beat everyone! We are in a phase where our goal is to be better than another French duo and it's the same case for other tandems ... This barrier that the joint training is more delicate. National coach Frank Citeau can not be biased and he is forced to bring less to everyone: it's not easy for him! A special coach also brings different approaches, specific techniques. We have managed to Palma with Bertrand: Perhaps beginner's luck? It is understandable because we are on the same wavelength and we have the same method of preparation of a regatta.
Voilesetvoiliers.com: At the hardware level, you have a scope?
FC: The Nacra 17 gauge allows you to play slightly on the blocks drifts (4-5 mm). But as always in one design, one can not make two identical pieces: 300 boats have been built and it is logical to imagine that the mold has moved. Already off race, there is always the so-called second identical boat is not the same as the first! So it takes several hulls and several masts to find the right material. Do not focus on it but it's important.
Nacra 17-Cammas
What progress since the first meeting in Nacra 17 Franck Cammas and Sophie de Turckheim in Hyères in 2013!
Photo @ Christophe Breschi SOF-FFV
Voilesetvoiliers.com: Billy Besson and Marie Riou are a cut above in the world: is this delta can be bridged?
FC: The challenge is difficult but very exciting! They are double world champions ... But we must also remember that often the world champions were Olympic champions. In sensations, we have assets they do not and vice versa. Wait for the end of the selections! Because we are not that far to say that it's over now ...
Nacra 17-Cammas
The duo Cammas-de Turckheim quickly found his feet in light airs, but it is in strong medium and the breeze that the duo seek to improve, already with a near optimum crew weight.
Photo @ Lionel Cottin FFV
Voilesetvoiliers.com: And it will play the World Cup?
FC: This year is crucial: we must manage to beat them. On important regattas, like here in Hyères. After normally, the World Clearwater in February 2016 that will determine the duo selected for the Olympics in Rio. The Selection Committee will draw on the results of 2015 and especially on this World ...
Voilesetvoiliers.com: And then, opponents are aliens!
FC: From one season to the next, there are changes in hierarchy: some duets were twentieth year and are now on the podium ... Gemma Jones, for example, the New Zealander has great progress this year ! While Argentina's Santiago Lange, who finished second at the World Santander in 2014 is now 24th in the world rankings ISAF ... The only ones that are stable, are Billy Besson and Marie Riou and the Italians Vittorio Bissaro and Silvia Sicouri who have already beaten the best French.
Diam 24-Groupama
Groupama will once again present on the Tour de France Sailing Race, this time Diam 24 with Franck Cammas and Pierre Pennec alternating at the helm.
Photo @ Yvan Zedda / Sea & Co
Voilesetvoiliers.com: And you're gonna do 24 Diam seen in the Tour de France Sailing ...
FC: I am amused me more than what I thought! There was wind as they are multihulls, the gaps are made and unmade much faster than M-34. The game is more open and friendly. But it is not a Nacra 17: it's slower and heavier ... Reactions are less vivid because it's not a high-tech boat. I will start the races at the Grand Prix of the Naval Academy. And for the Tour de France, I would do the latter two thirds, Pierre Pennec taking the boat early in the Channel because I would be at the World Nacra in Aarhus, Denmark. For now, it works pretty!
Voilesetvoiliers.com: There is a high level of dispersion!
FC: It's true that Spi Ouest France, there were only three teams that dominated the debate, the others were very irregular. It will be hard: when we see that Daniel Souben ends in the middle of the round silver in Pornichet, it is clear that competitions are taken. And there are young people who come from sports catamaran that work hard.
Groupama Little Cup
The Class C is also a thoroughbred with phenomenal power through the foils and the wing: a good exercise before playing AC-45 Flying release.
Photo @ Yvan Zedda Groupama
Voilesetvoiliers.com: And then there is the Little America's Cup ...
FC: Getting ready for the Little Cup in September in Geneva. But we have not made much progress on Class C, only in appendages. Last year, you have changed the wing, this season we work on the foils: the platform is in terms of shape and stiffness, then we must change the appendices. We will sail for Flying Phantom train with Louis Viat because it can play the maneuver: we will devote himself totally at the end of August. Adjustments were added and must adapt in particular the "canting" in the foil, and saffron. It will be wary of Swiss and Canadians on the ten participants ...
Voilesetvoiliers.com: Also on the program, AC-45. But there is more the appointment of Cagliari ...
FC: We try to put the boat in the water early May with the foils: expected monotypes parts that must happen. We'll make the Tour de Belle-Île and try to browse many water bodies in France to publicize the America's Cup. This is a formidable challenge on a great boat!
AC-45
There will not be as many challengers as when the AC World Series in 2013, but new nations could be candidates before July ...
Photo @ Sander Van Der Borch Sea & C °
Voilesetvoiliers.com: There are three appointments this year.
FC: We'll start with Portsmouth in England (July 24-26) and then Gotenburg Sweden (August 27-30) and ends with Bermuda (16-18 October). On board, there will be the Swiss Arnaud Psarofaghis as tactician Thierry Fouchier as mainsail trimmer, Arnaud Jarlégan for before and Deven sails Le Bihan in front: all have already sailed on a AC-45 with Energy Team. Certainly it is a flying version now but with what we have learned with Class C, we should adapt quickly, at least in terms of settings.
Voilesetvoiliers.com: And for the America's Cup, all is not very clear ...
FC: It is not finalized: with the new rules, the proposal for Team France is totally different in terms of budget, timing, team size, responsiveness, performance. Everyone Goes Home a blank sheet for three weeks and there are many one-design parts on the boat which will 48 feet. This will be especially a much wider proportion catamaran that AC-45! With a different structure, Coffee mills, the steering wheels ... It's actually a small 62 feet because the Americans realized that their 45 foot would almost as fast as his big brother! It was at that time they were told that were useless to spend so much money with great technology for similar performances ...
Voilesetvoiliers.com: And the budget is reduced ...
FC: From a technical point of view, this is a very good opportunity for us because everyone starts anew almost. And the budget is now around twenty million euros, seven million per year which corresponds to a trimaran, Ultimate program. This falls within the envelope of a single sponsor, which is easier to find several partners, especially in France.
AC-45 Artemis
AC-45 will be flying for the three rounds of the 2015 tour: a prelude to the AC-48 will be even more powerful since much broader.
Photo @ America "s Cup
Voilesetvoiliers.com: But the consequence is that the Italians are gone! And the New Zealanders are uncertain ...
FC: The Italians Patrizio Bertelli and above had spent a year on the AC-62 version, and they are frustrated. They considered that they had lost too much, and they had to completely rethink their team, but I have always felt that the rich are better able to exploit a poor rule that the poor to adapt to a gauge rich! Other nations can claim the America's Cup today: the Japanese could be announced in a few weeks and talk Chinese, Australians ... This must again become a world sailing championship, not a World Championship billionaires! In Valencia, we had 120 million euros ...
Voilesetvoiliers.com: The New Zealanders are likely to throw in the towel.
F.C.: I do not understand them too! They say they have no money and they are against a rule that saves millions ... They were never very logical and consistent as they were for the change in size during the preparatory meetings and against two hours later. In fact their problem is that they want an appointment in Auckland and all the other teams were not for, as this was very expensive! While giving an advantage to one of the Challengers ... In addition there are eight months they requested to move from 62 to 54 feet to save money!
Voilesetvoiliers.com: And Team France has keys ...
FC: We almost signing with a sponsor: it is almost ... But we have until July to materialize.
Voilesetvoiliers.com: This new 48 feet will be designed with monotypes rooms: What will focus on research?
FC: The appendages and foils control systems are fully open. In fact, we realized that looking outside appendages was very expensive for a very small gain. However, designing and implementing effective foils requires a lot of work. We see it with the Class C: 80% of progress is on the appendages, not on the wing or on the structure.
Voilesetvoiliers.com: The Bermudan of water?
FC: The weather is a little different from San Francisco: there may be less than ten knots as over 22 knots. We shall have the right to only one set of foils: it will choose well! The event is global and stage Bermuda is superb, just four hours flight from London, in an idyllic location. Télévisuellement, it will be an undeniable success ... Because the show will be great.

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Franck is a great sailor and might possibly get this done, but this is article is just hype and hope....

 

Two things are certain: he won't be winning the AC on a budget of 7m a year and he won't be flying from London to Bermuda in 4 hours- last time I looked it was 3,500 miles.......

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Cammas

"D’un point de vue technique, c’est une très bonne opportunité pour nous parce que tout le monde repart à zéro ou presque. Et le budget est désormais autour de vingt millions d’euros, soit sept millions par an ce qui correspond à un programme de trimaran Ultime. Cela rentre dans l’enveloppe d’un sponsor unique, ce qui est plus facile à trouver que plusieurs partenaires, surtout en France.

Nous avons failli signer avec un sponsor : il s’en est fallu de peu… Mais nous avons jusqu’à juillet pour concrétiser."

 

"On the technical view, it is a very good opportunity for us as everybody go to back to zero or close. Also, now the budget is around 20 M euros, which means 7 M euros per year, the equivalent of the Ultima trimaran program. That can be fullfilled by a one sponsor only, which is much easier than finding different sponsors, mainly in France.

We were very close from finding a sponsor, really close....But we have until july to conclude"

 

I think that the Canal+ cover of the event will a great help for them.

I am sure that 7 M euros, even though tight, is enough to win. The have all the talent and will accept to be paid less than in some other teams.

 

They just need to sign now....

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Cammas

"D’un point de vue technique, c’est une très bonne opportunité pour nous parce que tout le monde repart à zéro ou presque. Et le budget est désormais autour de vingt millions d’euros, soit sept millions par an ce qui correspond à un programme de trimaran Ultime. Cela rentre dans l’enveloppe d’un sponsor unique, ce qui est plus facile à trouver que plusieurs partenaires, surtout en France.

Nous avons failli signer avec un sponsor : il s’en est fallu de peu… Mais nous avons jusqu’à juillet pour concrétiser."

 

"On the technical view, it is a very good opportunity for us as everybody go to back to zero or close. Also, now the budget is around 20 M euros, which means 7 M euros per year, the equivalent of the Ultima trimaran program. That can be fullfilled by a one sponsor only, which is much easier than finding different sponsors, mainly in France.

We were very close from finding a sponsor, really close....But we have until july to conclude"

 

I think that the Canal+ cover of the event will a great help for them.

I am sure that 7 M euros, even though tight, is enough to win. The have all the talent and will accept to be paid less than in some other teams.

 

They just need to sign now....

considering Cammas is as good manager as Coutts we can comfortably imagine there will be no Team France on the start of the AC35.

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Cammas

"D’un point de vue technique, c’est une très bonne opportunité pour nous parce que tout le monde repart à zéro ou presque. Et le budget est désormais autour de vingt millions d’euros, soit sept millions par an ce qui correspond à un programme de trimaran Ultime. Cela rentre dans l’enveloppe d’un sponsor unique, ce qui est plus facile à trouver que plusieurs partenaires, surtout en France.

Nous avons failli signer avec un sponsor : il s’en est fallu de peu… Mais nous avons jusqu’à juillet pour concrétiser."

 

"On the technical view, it is a very good opportunity for us as everybody go to back to zero or close. Also, now the budget is around 20 M euros, which means 7 M euros per year, the equivalent of the Ultima trimaran program. That can be fullfilled by a one sponsor only, which is much easier than finding different sponsors, mainly in France.

We were very close from finding a sponsor, really close....But we have until july to conclude"

 

I think that the Canal+ cover of the event will a great help for them.

I am sure that 7 M euros, even though tight, is enough to win. The have all the talent and will accept to be paid less than in some other teams.

 

They just need to sign now....

considering Cammas is as good manager as Coutts we can comfortably imagine there will be no Team France on the start of the AC35.

 

 

Groupama is likely his only shot at this stage. It's been more than two years since Groupama pulled out of the VOR, thus, potentially the time could be right again. And the budget is now similar to the one from the past VOR.

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Cammas

"D’un point de vue technique, c’est une très bonne opportunité pour nous parce que tout le monde repart à zéro ou presque. Et le budget est désormais autour de vingt millions d’euros, soit sept millions par an ce qui correspond à un programme de trimaran Ultime. Cela rentre dans l’enveloppe d’un sponsor unique, ce qui est plus facile à trouver que plusieurs partenaires, surtout en France.

Nous avons failli signer avec un sponsor : il s’en est fallu de peu… Mais nous avons jusqu’à juillet pour concrétiser."

 

"On the technical view, it is a very good opportunity for us as everybody go to back to zero or close. Also, now the budget is around 20 M euros, which means 7 M euros per year, the equivalent of the Ultima trimaran program. That can be fullfilled by a one sponsor only, which is much easier than finding different sponsors, mainly in France.

We were very close from finding a sponsor, really close....But we have until july to conclude"

 

I think that the Canal+ cover of the event will a great help for them.

I am sure that 7 M euros, even though tight, is enough to win. The have all the talent and will accept to be paid less than in some other teams.

 

They just need to sign now....

considering Cammas is as good manager as Coutts we can comfortably imagine there will be no Team France on the start of the AC35.

 

 

Well, plenty of reasons to question Coutts as having all the right ideas for setting up and running the overall show for the America's Cup. But as for his abilities as a manager of an America's Cup team . . . he has a fairly strong record. My guess is France wouldn't mind if Franck had anything like Coutts' success on that front. I know, the argument is that Coutts has had Billionaire money behind much of his efforts on that front, but there have been others with Billionaire money that have not done it, and he has been pretty damned successful during times without Billionaire money behind him, IIRC.

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Cammas

"D’un point de vue technique, c’est une très bonne opportunité pour nous parce que tout le monde repart à zéro ou presque. Et le budget est désormais autour de vingt millions d’euros, soit sept millions par an ce qui correspond à un programme de trimaran Ultime. Cela rentre dans l’enveloppe d’un sponsor unique, ce qui est plus facile à trouver que plusieurs partenaires, surtout en France.

Nous avons failli signer avec un sponsor : il s’en est fallu de peu… Mais nous avons jusqu’à juillet pour concrétiser."

 

"On the technical view, it is a very good opportunity for us as everybody go to back to zero or close. Also, now the budget is around 20 M euros, which means 7 M euros per year, the equivalent of the Ultima trimaran program. That can be fullfilled by a one sponsor only, which is much easier than finding different sponsors, mainly in France.

We were very close from finding a sponsor, really close....But we have until july to conclude"

 

I think that the Canal+ cover of the event will a great help for them.

I am sure that 7 M euros, even though tight, is enough to win. The have all the talent and will accept to be paid less than in some other teams.

 

They just need to sign now....

considering Cammas is as good manager as Coutts we can comfortably imagine there will be no Team France on the start of the AC35.

 

 

Groupama is likely his only shot at this stage. It's been more than two years since Groupama pulled out of the VOR, thus, potentially the time could be right again. And the budget is now similar to the one from the past VOR.

 

I think Groupama only operates in France. Thus the Canal+ cover of the event during 3 years may be key for them to have a better deal than 3 VOR.

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A deal with a paid-TV channel that blocks the YouTube streaming in France (like last time), actually reduces the potential audience and exposure for sponsors. I sincerely doubt it is a good value proposition for B2C companies like Groupama. (btw, Groupama operates in 14 countries, UK included. Not huge outside France, sure, but pretty international).

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RC has destroyed the commercial sponsorship value of the AC . . . It no longer represents the combination of prestige and class and teamwork and technology, which used to be its very unique niche. And it simply cannot compete in the xtreme sports niche, for a whole range of reasons. So it is left in a sponsorship vaccuum.

 

And the combo of RC and LE have destroyed the interest of the VROs - none of them want to play when it has become so extremely nasty and extremely ineptly managed. They have other rather more fun and rewarding things to do.

 

That leaves a few owners who want to hobnob with LE, and pro sailors who want a paycheck.

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If I were a VRO with a few 10's of mil to blow on my sailing hobby, choosing between building and owning a J-Class and participating in AC, I don't think I would need to more than a few seconds to decide.

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If I were a VRO with a few 10's of mil to blow on my sailing hobby, choosing between building and owning a J-Class and participating in AC, I don't think I would need to more than a few seconds to decide.

 

I think I would go build a maxi and campaign it in the "real top regatta's" in the world

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The yacht that BA bought last year, the one he and the new bride were on off Branson's island near Exuma island in the Bahamas, is really stunning. If I were even V-VR then that'd be my style too.

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Smaller doesn't change much on a small flat piece of water. Vestas is still faster while being much smaller, kites and foiling kite boards also go faster on very flat water.

Length makes the difference on the ocean.

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