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      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  
Alcatraz5768

Alcatraz

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That is some good looking work you're doing there Traz.

 

I'm having a bit of difficulty reconciling it with your advice on the wiggling keel thread to use poly for repairs. Have you done all that work with poly?

 

Is that ceramic coating thin enough to leave the gripping texture on the drums? Assuming so, I imagine it will be a much better finish than anodizing - that ceramic stuff lasts on exhaust headers at a couple of K degrees so.....

 

You may really be on to something there.

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1 cheers man, it means a lot.

2 yes I have. The keel is wiggling because the bottom of the boat is moving in between the keel floors and needs beefing up to stop the flex. What I would do, is remove the keel if possible, grind our the bottom of the boat and the sides of the keel floor about 500mm each side or up to the bunk fronts, then lay up a glass laminate that ends up about 1/2" think in the centre 300mm and tapers out from there. I would use double bias with a csm backing facing down. I would screed/brush a thickened resin over the bottom first to fill any voids. The glass would lay up the sides of the floors and maybe over the top but probably not. Using the glass with the csm will help build thickness and it should help contour to the existing surface. Then brush a flow coat over it and job jobbed.

Using poly for a job like this is easier as it can be done in a few steps but all in one day, it works much better with the csm backer, and the secondary bond being a little inferior isn't a drama as there is a huge area.

The whole boat is built out of poly, as is yours probably, because it's good stuff. No reason not to use epoxy, no reason to either really.

Then use ss plates with radiused bottom edges so they can't cut into the laminate.

3 drums are bronze so couldn't be anodised or I would have done that. The ceramic coating is thin enough to keep the pebbled finish, and the splined tops still fit on, which is lucky. Pretty happy, but it'll be interesting to see them in a year.

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Sanding today. Shithouse.

If theres one thing i wont miss, its sanding. Nothing like getting out the shower and still itching like fuck!

Just caught this post - for cleaning off fiberglass itch the best process I've found is to thoroughly wipe yourself off with a microfiber cloth then scrub yourself vigorously with a loofah sponge in the shower.

 

I really only get the itch on my forearms but that process will almost entirely eliminate it.

Start with wrapping tape backwards around one hand, the pat down any exposed areas of skin, this will take several attempts. Then move on to a cold shower rinse off.

 

sanding 'glass is F_U_N!

 

when I worked for Gale Yount the best way to get rid of the itch was to strip down to shorts, run home from the yard (about 2 miles) and jump in the shower. Sweating got all the glass out to the surface. These days it'd only take about 100 yards for me to sweat that much.

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Glass sucks alright. I have to get undressed outside and leave my clothes there until there's enough for a seperate load through the washing machine. There's always a neat pile of dusty clothes on the back porch.

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Sanding today. Shithouse.

If theres one thing i wont miss, its sanding. Nothing like getting out the shower and still itching like fuck!

Just caught this post - for cleaning off fiberglass itch the best process I've found is to thoroughly wipe yourself off with a microfiber cloth then scrub yourself vigorously with a loofah sponge in the shower.

 

I really only get the itch on my forearms but that process will almost entirely eliminate it.

Start with wrapping tape backwards around one hand, the pat down any exposed areas of skin, this will take several attempts. Then move on to a cold shower rinse off.

 

sanding 'glass is F_U_N!

 

when I worked for Gale Yount the best way to get rid of the itch was to strip down to shorts, run home from the yard (about 2 miles) and jump in the shower. Sweating got all the glass out to the surface. These days it'd only take about 100 yards for me to sweat that much.

 

If that worked for me I'd never get the itch in the first place - my shirts look like I was just hosed down when I'm glassing.

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You do it enough, "glass rash" itches only to the first beer. Part of the process...I get skin rashes from it, ended up wearing Nitrile gloves most all the time...PIA, but what ya gonna do?

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This week has been mental work-wise, it appears that most idiots who are going on a chrissy holiday and need to tow something or take the kiddys bikes, dont think they need to call me for a towbar until this week. We turned down over 40 jobs yesterday which breaks my heart.

 

i feel im on the downward slope with the boat now the main painting is done, however i also know that this is an illusion. nice to get the boat glossy though.

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Good haul for xmas. Wifey got the last 2 spinlock jammers in her stocking, so i said 'if you dont have a need for those...'. In return she got me a new number plate for my truck which im stoked with.

 

Been out there today masking for the nonskid, to sand and spray tomorrow hopefully.

 

 

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the masked strip along the foredeck is for the tacklines to run, which is why there is a wider strip up the port side (2 tacklines and the jib floating lead control). masked areas on the sidedeck is for spin sheet leads and a sidemount XTR for the kite sheets for peeling.

This stuff is the shit i enjoy.

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Standard ls1. It had been swapped in before I bought it, is a nice job and still left hand drive All I have done is the wrap, headlights, lowered another 2" (front 5" rear 7") new wheels and tidied a few things up. When the boats in the water I'll put it in the shed and give the engine a freshen up and do a full interior make over.

Not everyone's cup of tea but it makes me smile when I drive it.

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The big push I did just before Christmas sort of burned me out with regard to the boat, however we have a one weekend coming up so I will get back out there and pull the shed down. Pics in a few days.

Long weekend.

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I am very likely clouded, but seems to me last year or year before, in a Chi/Mackinaw or CA race, a boat with "wings" capsized and a crewman perished, so the design was banned...not being catty here, it stuck in my mind that the group which banned that design more or less had their collective head in a very dark place.

This was a light 3500 pound Kiwi35 with fiberglass aft-hiking wings in upper Lake Michigan in a big 100 mph thunderstorm near midnight: Nearby Chi/ Mac racers had wind indicators blown off or pegged. All sails were furled except a storm jib. I suspect it was skidding on its side when the downwind hiking wing dug in and stopped the boat. Kinetic energy threw it over, while spilling out the hunkered-down crew, 2 of whom were under the rapidly descending hiking wing and wearing lifejackets like everybody else. A strong sea anchor might well have prevented this skidding then capsize, nothing else comes to mind. Having a storm jib up and trying to sail in this wind= not possible. I was about 80 miles away and it was really nasty that night.

 

How big would you think the waves were in the middle of Lake Michigan with 60 miles of fetch, or 200+ miles if it was from the South? There are literally hundreds of big wooden boats, iron and steel too, lying on the bottom of Lake Michigan. Guess why. The KIwi 35 is probably properly described as a 'bay boat', meaning Tampa Bay, Florida. Guess why.

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The people who entered that Kiwi 35 in the Mac race and the people who let them race are the ones who had their heads up their asses - the fatal results speak for themselves.

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Sanding today. Shithouse.

If theres one thing i wont miss, its sanding. Nothing like getting out the shower and still itching like fuck!

Just caught this post - for cleaning off fiberglass itch the best process I've found is to thoroughly wipe yourself off with a microfiber cloth then scrub yourself vigorously with a loofah sponge in the shower.

 

I really only get the itch on my forearms but that process will almost entirely eliminate it.

Start with wrapping tape backwards around one hand, the pat down any exposed areas of skin, this will take several attempts. Then move on to a cold shower rinse off.

 

sanding 'glass is F_U_N!

If you've got a lot of fur, this cure is worse than the disease.

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I know the feeling. But, when it is warm, never seems to be as wicked as snow...looks great. You will have great fun adjusting and getting the kinks out.

 

One question. How could a Kiwi not have transom to keep the empty swil jars aboard....? Please let us see it on the water?

 

A very nice labor time that you may miss.

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I like the pink - needs some touches of aqua though - maybe the boot? ;)

Wash your mouth out sjb, there will be no aqua, just a black cove stripe and black anti foul.

 

Time for a big tidy and clean up, around the boat and in the garage, it's been long overdue.

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Pink and black is coming back...

 

 

I once lived in a place with pink and black tiles in the kitchen, circa 1948 or so.

 

Your boat looks better. Faster too.

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Pink and black is coming back...

 

 

I once lived in a place with pink and black tiles in the kitchen, circa 1948 or so.

 

Your boat looks better. Faster too.

 

 

I hope so, gonna look stupid if we're slow.

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I like the pink - needs some touches of aqua though - maybe the boot? ;)

Wash your mouth out sjb, there will be no aqua, just a black cove stripe and black anti foul.

 

Time for a big tidy and clean up, around the boat and in the garage, it's been long overdue.

 

 

Last sentence. No doubt. "Yard shower," as a mate used to say...gets to be a mess.

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they used to be pink on the inside... oh, sorry, wrong topic. :P

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Cheers guys. Quite happy with how it's coming along, just trying to get some motivation to get stuck back in.

Had Mr Elliott around to have a look and take some measurements of the keel floor locations so we can get the keel fin started. He thought the boat looked pretty cool and thought it should go quite well after looking it over, so that gave us a bit of a buzz, it's nice when tha guys you've looked up to for years chuck a bit of praise your way.

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Cheers guys. Quite happy with how it's coming along, just trying to get some motivation to get stuck back in.

Had Mr Elliott around to have a look and take some measurements of the keel floor locations so we can get the keel fin started. He thought the boat looked pretty cool and thought it should go quite well after looking it over, so that gave us a bit of a buzz, it's nice when tha guys you've looked up to for years chuck a bit of praise your way.

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If you all remember I had blocked in the bilge between the bunk fronts and up to the top of the keel floors last year ( the year before?) and we Sussex out the finishing of this area for the new keel, so lots to do still here.

 

Greg suggested we rebate the bunk fronts to accept 3 layers of db glass across the whole floor and lapping up the bunk fronts, with a 5-6 mm pad of tri axial glass in the centre to take crush loads from the keel bolts.

 

In the corresponding area on the outside of the boat will be 3 progressively larger layers of triaxial glass with the unis running athwart ships.

 

The keel flange will then bolt onto the outside of the hull with fairing pieces front and back and each side. I was initially concerned with the idea of a hideous external flange, however Mr Elliott put my mind at ease regarding the drag (negligible) vs the strength gain (considerable) of this technique with a lightweight timber boat such as this. I was unconvinced until he asked me to imagine the unidirectional glass fibres running side to side with and without a 25mm rebate in the middle. He then reminded me we were adding nearly 200kg more to the bulb and drawing 2.7m.

 

External flange it is then.

 

We also discussed the chain plate strength and came up with a plan to add a timber and carbon beam across the boat adjacent to the chain plate location. My mate suggested it would be easier to whack an acrow prop across the boat from gunwale to gunwale, to save the hassle. Dick.

 

So in summary, lots to do.

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Greg confirmed that longer - better as well, so I think I'll start with the fixed sprit at 1.4m and a telescoping piece 1m out of that, both with bob stays.

How will you handle anchoring with the sprit? Permanent roller on the bow, or a frame that slips over the front with a roller on it? We had a stainless frame on the Archie that slipped over the little prodder, kept the bow clean when racing.

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So, my mates parents know a guy that used to sail on Alcatraz a lot when it was the latest and greatest boat out, and he designed and built a few double skinned wing sails. Thats about all the info i have but i managed to get a photo which is pretty cool, apparently this guy, Terry, made windsurfer sails.

 

post-97971-0-10544200-1457329953_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

 

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i just ordered the tubes for the bowsprit, a socket for the front of the fixed section and a tapered high modulus carbon stick for the telescoping bit. I rang my favorite tube supply company (Kilwell fibertube) and spoke to Jason who is a fucken star, and discribed the project, he said "i have just the thing for you, a piece of Volvo 60 kite pole, high modulus and tapered". As i sat crapping myself wondering what this was going to cost, i nearly fell of my chair when he told me how much, about 1/10 of what i had in mind. What a legend and an amazing company.

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Dave, That looks epic mate. Nice work.

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Thanks mate. I just need to kick myself in the arse to get it in the water.

 

It was nice seeing you and your tribe at squady weekend, reminded me of how enjoyable cruising with family and friends is.

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post-97971-0-15116100-1458873430_thumb.jpgpost-97971-0-06614800-1458873432_thumb.jpg

 

Starting to build up motivation again. Was out there last week grinding off the dried contact glue from the deck head, then skimmed a layer of filler over it to fair. I couldent think of an easy way to trowel the bog on, so i mixed up quite a runny mix then rolled it on then dragged the trowel over it, worked great.

 

I also leveled out thr floor, then glued a piece of hardwood (jarrah) over the keel, then leyed up 8 layers of double bias cloth to take the compression loads of the keel bolts. Tomorrow, amongst other jobs i will lay 3 layers of Triax glass over the whole area ang staggered up the bunk fronts, to tie it all together.

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Building up a bit of steam again, floor is glassed accross the whole area and tabbed into the bunk fronts. i am building the beam accross the boat at the chainplates, 1/4 ply web, foam each side double bias glass for strength and carbon unis for stiffness.

Also working on the bowsprit, which is quite a big job. Pics to follow.

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Just read the whole project... Late to the party.

 

Beautiful work. You should be very proud of your final finish results on the deck and topsides.

 

I'm hoping to spray my hull this fall with a 2-pack... Any advice for a complete rookie?

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Another quite productive afternoon, actually 3 1/2 hrs, but who's counting. Fitted foam to the other side of the beam, applied a coat of fairing compound to the new cabin sole, built a jig, then laminated the ply for the companionway steps, added a block perch to the bowsprit, and built the spine for the steps.

 

Will, look at tutorials on YouTube, get a good compressor and the best gun you can afford (although I got a similar finish on the deck as my mate who painted the hull, me with a $40 gun, him with a top of the line devilbis), and spray the primer, undercoat, hatches, floor boards, doors from your house, anything to give you practice handling the gun. Remember, if you fuck it up, knock it back and have another go. It took 3 times to get my old boat right. Above all, have a go, there's nothing like standing back and thinking ' I did that'.

 

Dave.

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Above all, have a go, there's nothing like standing back and thinking ' I did that'.

 

Dave.

+1

 

Dude, I can't wait to see you enjoying your boat on the water!

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Not much time today, started carbon hinge for the companionway steps, and layed up the lock for the extending part of the bowsprit. It will have an outfucker(?) for the extending jousting bit with a lock when its out. I didnt want to rely on it being pulled out the whole way and cleated, as if the sprit isnt extended fully, the bobstay wont be tight and the sprit is way more likely to break. With a lock, if its not locked in position it wont stay out.


 

Above all, have a go, there's nothing like standing back and thinking ' I did that'.

Dave.

+1

 

Dude, I can't wait to see you enjoying your boat on the water!

 

Im enjoying it now, but i know what you mean.

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I finished the carbon and glass piano hinge for the top step today, and fitted the beam of destiny, and glassed it and layer up the carbon unis along the top edge. Shaped the stem for the steps. Ticking along.

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Ran the carbon along the bottom of the beam today, fitted the lock to the sprit, glassed, sanded, grinded, fitted, etc. I want to put photos up but im working in my shed which is a screaming shithole at the moment. I should have a chance to tidy it this weekend as im looking after the kids as wifey is away.

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how's the boat coming? Got a keel design ready?

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Been cracking into it the last few weeks. Beam is glued in, steps made and half covered in carbon, yesterday I shaped up the bowsprit, laminated the carbon on to it (3 layers of unis along each side and 2 additional wraps around the front where the tube is) added a layer of double bias cloth, then brushed on a filler coat. Photos later today, messy garage or not. Stay tuned.

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Shitty wet day here so just planned the engine box (sat in boat and stared at hole with tape measure in my hand). Also trying to work out where to put the electronics as the old nav station was under the bridge deck under the companionway steps, however we only really use electronic navigation, and can lay a chart on the table if we have to. Need to find space for the engine control, vhf, switch panels, and battery monitor, not necessarily in the same place, open to any ideas.

 

The beam crosses the boat level with the chainplates as seen in the pics, i will lay 3 layers of 900gsm triax over the beam end and the chainplate blocking and onto the hull, tying it all together. Beam is made of a ply web, with 25mm foam each side and wrapped in 600gsm double bias glass, then laminated with 5 strips of 300gsm carbon unis top and bottom. There is timber blocking at each end, and there will be timber filler pieces fitted between the beam and the cabin coamings.

 

the clear coated carbon twill (love that word for some reason) bit is the bottom of one step,still needs sanding and a final coat of clear sprayed on when the steps are assembled, the hole has a triangular "spar" from top to bottom.

 

I will show you the bowsprit when it is finished and then the images going backwards, as its a bit of a weird way to build it.

 

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I talked to the guys who built the new (5years ago new) mast and they said they had problems getting enough shroud tension, so after talking to Greg (Elliott) we built and fitted the beam to stop the sides of the boat coming together when the rig tension comes on. There is a laminated timber ring frame that goes down around the hull and is tied into the mast step and keel area so we have completed that circle. I hope it helps.

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I'm kind of surprised that the chain plates didn't bolt into a full bulkhead, or at least an aluminum/stainless arm to the hull grid. Interior looks like it has a tonne of potential as a cruiser!

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No hull grid, built in French carvel ply over stringers over frames. It's a cool little cruiser even though it's quite small down below. Trick is to not ever let wifey onto a nice late model cruiser. All of our boats have been race yachts so camping style is all she knows.

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Traz, just curious why you chose to go with that honkin' arch instead of simply putting a couple of stanchions up from the inboard edges of those bulkheads - or made the bulkheads full height.

 

I can imagine full BH's could make things claustrophobic but stanchions would double as great grab bars as well as bracing up the mast step area.

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We needed to stiffen the boat through the area of the chainplates and the windows are right there. 2 reasons we went for the beam, 1: bulkhead would fuck the interior for cruising (as you said), staunchins wouldn't have addressed the weakness of the cabin top or window cutouts. The beam isn't there to support the deck, it's to keep the gunwales apart.

2: Greg Elliott told me to.

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Been crazy at work so the boat has taken a back seat for a few weeks, however I have just been getting back into it over the last few days. The steel plate has been ordered for the keel fin. I'm also working on the cockpit floor hatches which have soaked up way more hours than they should have. Just doing the fidley bits around the catches to ensure a good seal. Trying to do a little bit every day.

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post-97971-0-61691500-1468129836_thumb.jpg

 

Kitset keel fin arrived. The top and bottom plates are away getting bored and tapped for the bolts, then i will grind vees for welding, then off to Mike Rees to get welded up. The top and bottom welds get outsourced as they its quite important they stay together.

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Strange timing, I actually have a desire to get back into it, built some proper steps last week, only 2 years to late, and will hopefully get the engine box built this weekend.

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Hes been busy making a new prod for my Sun Fast 3600!

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Back into it, working on the engine box at the moment, i have managed to narrow it up by 150mm each side which will make each quarter berth a primo size for one or a cozy double. the engine box will have 3 access hatches, one on the front and one each side, all airtight to keep noise down without using heavy insulation. Air will enter around the bottom of the enclosure between the stringers. i have a 25l vetus plastic tank to go just beside or behind the saildrive, and have ordered a digital control unit for the engine, green button for start, red button for stop, and a stop/start button in the cockpit. Pics this weekend.

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today is now yesterdays tomorrow, so some pics. You should realise that I've been busy/slack/unmotivated/tired so progress has been minimal.

 

 

I made steps, so thats nice.

 

 

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post-97971-0-48034100-1483942957_thumb.jpgpost-97971-0-00028000-1483942979_thumb.jpgpost-97971-0-58608300-1483943016_thumb.jpgJust jokes (not really, sob) I've done a bit more. Extended the quarter berths about 6" either side and started the engine box. It will get plastic hatches in each side and the back and a removable door on the front for access. Air intake is around the bottom of the box but a stringer height above the hull. the Vetus tank will be inside the engine box beside the sail drive. The floor in front of the engine box is done, although it still needs a radius across the front and glassing. the carbon (over ply) steps are done, just need to wrap carbon around the main spar and glue it all together.

 

 

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