Pete Pollard

Weta anarchy

Recommended Posts

 

 

 

you have done more with your videos to popularize the Weta than anyone else I have seen.

 

A week or two back a woman from somewhere in my neighborhood noticed that my Nextdoor avatar was a picture of me sailing and pm'd me. Said she was learning to sail her kayak and wanted to know what my boat was. When I said a Weta trimaran she asked, "Like Tom Kirkman's? I've watched some of his videos."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

anyone has a write up of Linda´s EC last year? supposedly it was going to get published but never happened, surprised that weta is not interested in posting a story about an great achievement like that

Here it is http://www.wetamarine.com/news-and-events/everglades-challenge-addiction/

 

 

That was great.

Linda, you are a hero, I´ll be rooting for you on saturday!

Stephanie, very nicely written and thanks for all the juicy details for a weta owner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Pewit said:

Weta have just announced a larger square top main (9.3 vs 8.3 sqm) and lighter foam built hull (12kg lighter) which will make it quicker in the light stuff and easier to manoeuvre on land.
www.wetamarine.com/news-and-events/exciting-new-upgrade-options-for-weta/

large-Detailed-SQ-top-and-Std.jpg

 

I found the press release a bit obscure. They say foam core does not compromise strength.. then go on how older hulls can beach more confidently. They say the boat will be lighter... then some blah blah about min class weight? who cares, if the boat is lighter it'll be faster, period. Older boats can't shave 12 kg from any other parts to compensate. Maybe you won't be able to tell the difference, but it's there. Also, they should clarify that the new main is not for class racing, which is obvious anyway.

 

As far as the changes themselves, I love them. I don't have a fleet to race against so any improvements are welcome. Pity I did a custom squaretop mainsail with North last year, and yes the boat is a bit faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I might not need to lose 25 pounds to be competitive against the younger, fit guys after all?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

The Weta Marine website states,
 
•    The new foam hulls are approximately 12kg (26lb) lighter than the previous production boat. Sailors will find it easier to manage on land - with no negatives on the race course.
•    Total weight is strictly controlled, now just at the class minimum - so no corrector weights are required for normal class racing. 120kg (265lb) so sits at the minimum in the Weta Class Rules.
 
This 120kg sounded heavy according with their previous claims so, I dugged out my old brochure (yes, i keep stuff like that; ~2008) that states the total rigged weight of the Weta to be 100kg.  I always though that my boat was heavier than that. 
 
Is the Weta going the way of the F16; with technology the boats are getting heavier (which is totally lame)? Or did the old Weta brochure had a bad typo?
 
I think an explanation from Weta on this discrepancy would be nice. 
 
Cheers, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a feeling that the boat weight in the original flyer may have been "optimistic". I know that the original boats that were produced in New Zealand were lighter (and some of them were foam construction) but they did get heavier when production moved to China and also as heavier sailors started to sail them they were gradually beefed up.

When the French produced the boat specs for their rules they weighed and measured a sample of boats and produced a minimum weight of 120Kg with an average of 125Kg which was also adopted for the US rules.

I'm 85 Kg and my old boat (2009 #325) required a carbon "saddle" on the Amas as they started to crack from my weight when hiking from them - the new boats (2015 on) don't have this problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Go ahead, Weta Marine.  Keep making significant changes and upgrades every two years or so to these wonderful little trimarans.

But stop calling it a one design for racing.

#212

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At my local sailing club you'll find "one design" boats gathering dust at the back of the boat park locked because their owner has discovered the "next new thing" or a better, more modern, lighter alternative and so I'm pleased the Weta has evolved since it was launched.

There have been a number of options for Wetas (larger kite, furling jib, smaller main) for many years and its up to the National Class Association to decide what is the " best" option for "one-design" racing. For example, you could choose to add 10Kg weights to the foam boats for class racing and use only 8.3SqM sails.

You might have noted the success of the Aero against the all-consuming Laser fleet because it tapped into the requirement (particularly from older sailors) for something they could handle more easily and wasn't so bloody uncomfortable to sail. The Hobie 14 & 16 dominated the multihull market in the 80s and 90s and while they still have a large following, better, lighter, faster alternatives from Nacra (and others) are eating into their market share.

So as a manufacturer, do you keep churning out the same product which opens up opportunities for competitors to eat into your market share - or do you continue to evolve the product?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Weta does not perform well in single digit winds. It takes mid teen winds for it to be sailed to it's mixed fleet D-PN number. And most Weta owners and potential owners do not race, period. So from a pure sales standpoint, the new sail makes a lot of sense for Weta. It widens the boat's operational window which will be good for everybody.

In terms of one-design, the new sail should become the standard one-design class sail. This will enable the boat to be sailed better in light to moderate winds, where the majority of regattas take place. It will still sail exceptionally well in higher winds. All new boats should come standard with the new sail and as older boat owners replace their sails out of necessity, everyone will be back to using the same mainsail in fairly short order. Older sails should be allowed for one-design racing but no correction should be offered.

The weight of the new foam core Wetas (non foam cored hulls will still be available) remains within the minimum weight class rules. The new boats will be marginally faster, but due to vast differences in sailor and crew weights, is 26 pounds off the hulls really going to make a substantial difference in who wins a race? If so, then assign a 26 pound removeable ballast be added to the foam cored boats for use in one-design racing. For easier handling on land, which is the supposed reason for the weight reduction, just remove the ballast.

I understand the importance of maintaining strict one-design regulations so that older boats do not become easily obsolete every few years, but if you can make slight changes as technology allows which allows the boat to appeal to a much broader range of potential buyers - isn't that ultimately good for everybody?  After all, the basic boat size, shape, etc., etc., isn't changing. Just a minor change in sail plan that anyone can upgrade to and not enough weight difference to make any practical difference. If this increases the number of people buying Weta's, doesn't that also mean that more people will be sailing and racing them?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/1/2017 at 1:13 PM, pwormwood said:

I'm having trouble with the statement that Wetas are not forgiving. As a long time multihull sailor, I've given my Weta every chance to flip through inattention, and have not had success. In fact, every time I sail in heavy air, I come in and find myself remarking to my wife how forgiving the boat is. (Maybe that says something about the boats I used to sail!)

 

As for the need to hike - NO, you don't. At age 70, I hike only about 10% of the time I should. The rest of the time I perch my ass on the weather rail, feather a bit, and have a ball. I've never even bothered to add or move the too-far-inboard hiking straps. Yes, a fully hiked racer is going to kick my ass upwind in a breeze, but sailing at 85-90% of potential is still a hell of a lot of fun, and far less fatiguing. I typically single hand the boat in up to about 18-20 knots of wind, with just my hyperactive 70 pound dog running around, barking at the powerboats.

 

At my age, my leg strength is a fraction of what it used to be, so I'm more dragging my butt from side to side than leaping as I've seen in the Weta videos. Given how relatively easy I get across, I'd be really interested to learn how much more difficult it would be with a true handicap, rather than just old age. I think that they'd be fine...

I totally agree with Peter on this. The Weta is one of the most forgiving boats I have ever sailed if you use proper sailing technique. Most of the pitchpole capsizes I've seen seem to show the sailor too far forward. It's quite easy and comfortable to sit on the center hull cockpit seating behind the amas and you can be pretty happy sailing with the chute out right here in 20-25 knots of wind. I sail on Lake Pontchartrain and we get 2' up to 4' chop in anything over 15 knots and I am always impressed with how our Weta handles those conditions downwind but again it takes proper weight placement. I've beam reached in 15-20 knots in big chop also with no issues and the trick is weight aft with the jib slightly eased to unload the leeward ama bow.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were over 50 Wetas at the World Masters Games with 30 solo entries.

We were using the US rules which allow unlimited running rigging and deck hardware and thus we were able to "pimp the Weta" to make some improvements. Particularly the Australian Weta Team who shipped over a  container of Wetas for the event.

I have documented the mods here

The Mod which made the most difference in terms of boat handling and safety was the development of a traveller using a rope around the rear ama arms. Initially we just attached the mainsheet block to a loop in the centre of the traveller.

However this was improved by adding a traveller block and then attaching another rope either side of the traveller block, fed around the ama arms and cleated using the trolley cleats, to give an adjustable yacht-style traveller which could be let down to leeward for the offwind legs without releasing the main sheet - greatly improving sail shape.

Finally we extended the tiller with some carbon tube slid over so that it came forward of the traveller and the tiller extension joint no longer caught on the traveller.

The benefits of using a traveller are:
1. You don't have to let go of the tiller extension through the tack.
2. You no longer have to pass the tiller around the back of the mainsheet and go to the stern to get it. As the stern has less buoyancy, putting your weight back there is like putting the brakes on every time you tack.
3. You can control the position of the mainsheet block so you can let it out to the edge of the cockpit on the off-wind legs instead of having the clew curved to the middle of the boat - it gives a much better shape to the sail and allows you to control the tension of the rig while still letting the clew to leeward.
4. It allows you to extend the tiller under the traveller which means you can reach it easily when sitting forward or hiking from the amas.

E625EBDB-FD80-43FF-804C-5F633B67FC73-150

484F673A-6D11-4424-9D3E-E52DE77D3527-150

traveller-system2-150x150.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the traveller system is ok, but now because the sheet position is behind the end of the tiller you have to cross over the main sheet rope. Not like a laser where the sheet is lead forward on the boom to the forward cockpit. Only a problem in heavy winds when you have to work the sheet. My 2 bobs worth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unlike the Laser, the Weta has a cleat on the main and it's also much wider and more stable when tacking.

So in heavy winds, I ease the main and cleat it before tacking and then push the tiller over and keep hold of the tiller and main in one hand while using the other to tack the jib.

Then I swap hands and bring on the main again but if it's really windy or gusty I don't cleat it.

Keeping hold of the tiller allows you much more control of the tacking speed when it's windy to give you time to cross the boat and get out on the tramp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a survey for Weta owners on changes to the class rules resulting from the experience at the WMG which used the US rules.

The inaugural online meeting for the Australian Weta Class Association is on 8th July at 8am AEST.
Details and agenda here

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/05/2017 at 1:43 AM, Pewit said:

Weta have just announced a larger square top main (9.3 vs 8.3 sqm) and lighter foam built hull (12kg lighter) which will make it quicker in the light stuff and easier to manoeuvre on land.
www.wetamarine.com/news-and-events/exciting-new-upgrade-options-for-weta/

New SQ 9.3 demo sail on test in Sydney

sq sail blue 768x1024.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/26/2017 at 11:50 AM, Pewit said:

New SQ 9.3 demo sail on test in Sydney

 

Looks nice, when is the new model shipping?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The SQ 9.3 sail is available now and being shipped direct from North's factory to Weta dealers. It can also be ordered as an inexpensive upgrade with new boats instead of the Standard 8.3 sail.

The lightweight foam-core Performance hulls are in production and can also be ordered from Weta dealers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all, 

In the Tahiti Pearl Regatta 2017 there is a Weta around 5:50 (see below).  Does anyone know whether the Weta was racing or just sailing around?

It looks like that race was lower wind which is typically not good for the Weta. 

Cheers, 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were two Wetas racing - see the results here.

The new 9.3SqM sail was developed for exactly those light wind conditions and there's also the lightweight (15 Kg lighter) foam-core hull available too.

There's a dealer on Tahiti and I suspect those boats are chartered out so it may be why they weren't being sailed very well - two people sitting on the windward side in light winds isn't going to help.

They would have done better to unfurl the screecher and use it as a code zero - which is particularly effective under 5 knots as you can keep moving even if you can't point very well. It also helps if you move the screecher ratchet block inboard to flatten the sail. This trick was being used by the leading 2-handed sailors in the light winds during the World Masters Games.

 

11 hours ago, vaplaya said:

Hi all, 

In the Tahiti Pearl Regatta 2017 there is a Weta around 5:50 (see below).  Does anyone know whether the Weta was racing or just sailing around?

It looks like that race was lower wind which is typically not good for the Weta. 

Cheers,

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pewit, Thanks for the info.

Cool!!!!  It looks like it would be a really fun event. Too far for me. 

Cheers,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's only a 16hr flight from Washington DC to Tahiti via LAX from $2,500.

Too far? Try living in Australia! :-)

2 hours ago, vaplaya said:

Pewit, Thanks for the info.

Cool!!!!  It looks like it would be a really fun event. Too far for me. 

Cheers,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 25/6/2017 at 8:33 AM, Pewit said:

Unlike the Laser, the Weta has a cleat on the main and it's also much wider and more stable when tacking.

So in heavy winds, I ease the main and cleat it before tacking and then push the tiller over and keep hold of the tiller and main in one hand while using the other to tack the jib.

Then I swap hands and bring on the main again but if it's really windy or gusty I don't cleat it.

Keeping hold of the tiller allows you much more control of the tacking speed when it's windy to give you time to cross the boat and get out on the tramp.

Pewit, a couple of questions

- what you said above about not letting go of the tiller, is it with the traveller setup described? 

- with the traveller and the longer tiller, can you still hike at the stern with the center strap? what do you do with the extension? (with the standard setup, I let it stream in the water at the back and grab the tiller itself)

- having to tack the extension through the front,  isn´t it harder if you have a crew? I picture the extension sweeping through the whole boat and bashing wife in the head 

thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, with the traveller setup you can keep hold of the tiller through the tack.

You can hike at the stern in the same way and either grab the tiller and leave the extension to stream in the water - or hold the extension near the tiller so that the rest is over your shoulder. In fact if you let the traveller down to leeward with the traveller setup, it means that the tiller can have a wider arc beyond the edge of the cockpit and so it gives more space to get your feet under the centre strap.

Having the extension in front with a crew is no different to any other boat with a traveller setup - sure there is potential for poking your crew in the head but you could also consider having a telescopic tiller extension which allows you to shorten and extend it at will.

As the basic setup only requires a couple of loops of rope and a spare block  - why not give it a go and see if it suits your sailing style? If you don't have a spare block in your gear collection, try using the larger Ronstan Shock for the traveller block. You can extend the tiller later if you've found it works.

Hope this helps.

52 minutes ago, sail(plane) said:

Pewit, a couple of questions

- what you said above about not letting go of the tiller, is it with the traveller setup described? 

- with the traveller and the longer tiller, can you still hike at the stern with the center strap? what do you do with the extension? (with the standard setup, I let it stream in the water at the back and grab the tiller itself)

- having to tack the extension through the front,  isn´t it harder if you have a crew? I picture the extension sweeping through the whole boat and bashing wife in the head 

thanks

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Pewit said:

Yes, with the traveller setup you can keep hold of the tiller through the tack.

You can hike at the stern in the same way and either grab the tiller and leave the extension to stream in the water - or hold the extension near the tiller so that the rest is over your shoulder. In fact if you let the traveller down to leeward with the traveller setup, it means that the tiller can have a wider arc beyond the edge of the cockpit and so it gives more space to get your feet under the centre strap.

Having the extension in front with a crew is no different to any other boat with a traveller setup - sure there is potential for poking your crew in the head but you could also consider having a telescopic tiller extension which allows you to shorten and extend it at will.

As the basic setup only requires a couple of loops of rope and a spare block  - why not give it a go and see if it suits your sailing style? If you don't have a spare block in your gear collection, try using the larger Ronstan Shock for the traveller block. You can extend the tiller later if you've found it works.

Hope this helps.

 

Oh yes I am going to try it ASAP. Just wanted to know what to expect. Main thing for me is, besides the obvious downwind sail shape, safer tacking in high winds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

HI all,

Sailed my Weta this weekend in 12-17 kts of wind. Had a super time!!!!

It made me think about the new lighter Weta. 

Does anyone know whether the new Weta foam core construction will be more likely to absorb water and get heavy with time?

I ask because when I had my first H14, it weighted more than a new H16.  I think it was the foam absorbing water. 

Any thoughts?

Cheers, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/08/2017 at 2:06 AM, vaplaya said:

HI all,

Sailed my Weta this weekend in 12-17 kts of wind. Had a super time!!!!

It made me think about the new lighter Weta. 

Does anyone know whether the new Weta foam core construction will be more likely to absorb water and get heavy with time?

I ask because when I had my first H14, it weighted more than a new H16.  I think it was the foam absorbing water. 

Any thoughts?

Cheers, 

The water absorption issue have been resolved since the 1960's and many boats are now made using foam core (e.g. The Aero) as well as using it for making warships and wind generator vanes.

The new Performance Weta uses a Divinycell core - a semi-rigid PVC foam used as a sandwich core material when strength, stiffness and low weight is desired. It has excellent insulating properties and a closed-cell structure that makes it impervious to water.

Early foam cores had an open cell structure which soaks up water like a sponge once the outer skin gets punctured and I found this on the Catsailor forums:
Back in the early days Hobie Alter was making balsa core surfboards. He created the foam core board process and his buddy Gordon Clark took on the business of making the (Polyurethane) foam. The foam Hobie used in the cats was the Clark Polyurethane foam for many years. Clark used to make the foam in large loafs, then the loafs were sliced like bread. Lower layers were more dense and throughout it varied. That seems to have made some of the difference over the years. We quit using Clark foam back in the early 80's. We have been using a PVC foam for many years without the original problems from the 70's.

The foam core boats are now in production.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/15/2017 at 8:20 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

I understand the importance of maintaining strict one-design regulations so that older boats do not become easily obsolete every few years, but if you can make slight changes as technology allows which allows the boat to appeal to a much broader range of potential buyers - isn't that ultimately good for everybody?  After all, the basic boat size, shape, etc., etc., isn't changing. Just a minor change in sail plan that anyone can upgrade to and not enough weight difference to make any practical difference. If this increases the number of people buying Weta's, doesn't that also mean that more people will be sailing and racing them?

Builders of tri's always look to the Weta's as the Great Hope of a trimaran one design fleet...but it is really hard to have mavericks like trimaran owners knuckle down and stay within one design ...  I found the linked article to be particularly true of trimaran owners I have known...http://trimaranjournal.com/the-trimaran-sailor-a-portrait/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, martin.langhoff said:

Is there a hidden market where used Wetas in reasonable condition can be found? Asking for friend :-) (East Coast / Florida)

You could try asking on the Yahoo Weta Forums and ask if any are for sale in the area.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Weta-Trimarans/info

Otherwise the usual places

http://m.sailboatlistings.com/view/64597

and the local dealer http://wetaflorida.com/

Hope this helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Builders of tri's always look to the Weta's as the Great Hope of a trimaran one design fleet...but it is really hard to have mavericks like trimaran owners knuckle down and stay within one design ...  I found the linked article to be particularly true of trimaran owners I have known...http://trimaranjournal.com/the-trimaran-sailor-a-portrait/

It sounds mostly true, but made me cringe. Wtf is a trimariner?? A niche on a niche on a small niche. Applies also to cats, foilers, skiffs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, sail(plane) said:

It sounds mostly true, but made me cringe. Wtf is a trimariner?? A niche on a niche on a small niche. Applies also to cats, foilers, skiffs

How do you think I felt when they called me a submariner in the Navy?  At least a trimariner must be 3 times the sailor as a mariner...but a submariner certainly isn't a sub-par mariner!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

Is there a hidden market where used Wetas in reasonable condition can be found? Asking for friend :-) (East Coast / Florida)

There are about 400 Wetas in the U.S. now and the number is growing faster than ever as more of them are out and about where people can see them. There are no less than 5 at our local lake now and another 3 or 4 within an hours drive. And these are only the ones I know about. But this is still a low number compared to a lot of other types. For that reason used boats aren't readily available, yet,  and since none are terribly old the prices won't be exactly cheap. Occasionally the dealers will have a line on good used boats and you can do a google search for "weta for sale" to uncover what else might be out there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Weta has been selected by US Sailing for the 2018 Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Trophy! This is a first for a trimaran.

The Hobie Alter Trophy will take place at Wetafest from 19-22 April 2018 at Fort Walton Beach Yacht Club, FL. Time to start planning.

More information at wetaflorida.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

I though that Hobie was mostly a Catamaran person and then I remembered the trifoiler. 

BTW, took week off and been sailing my Weta all week. I just want to reiterate what you all already know.  

What a super fun boat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Friendly reminder to those in the Northern Hemisphere.  Get out sailing before winter comes!!B)

Cheers, 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/24/2017 at 6:48 AM, Pewit said:

The water absorption issue have been resolved since the 1960's and many boats are now made using foam core (e.g. The Aero) as well as using it for making warships and wind generator vanes.

The new Performance Weta uses a Divinycell core - a semi-rigid PVC foam used as a sandwich core material when strength, stiffness and low weight is desired. It has excellent insulating properties and a closed-cell structure that makes it impervious to water.

Early foam cores had an open cell structure which soaks up water like a sponge once the outer skin gets punctured and I found this on the Catsailor forums:
Back in the early days Hobie Alter was making balsa core surfboards. He created the foam core board process and his buddy Gordon Clark took on the business of making the (Polyurethane) foam. The foam Hobie used in the cats was the Clark Polyurethane foam for many years. Clark used to make the foam in large loafs, then the loafs were sliced like bread. Lower layers were more dense and throughout it varied. That seems to have made some of the difference over the years. We quit using Clark foam back in the early 80's. We have been using a PVC foam for many years without the original problems from the 70's.

The foam core boats are now in production.

Thanks much for the answer Pewit!!

So just to finish this thought.  If I hit something out sailing that breaks the skin and do not notice it until after a couple of days of sailing, I would not get any weight gain from water filtering in?   Worse case what is there are fabrication issue where water is sipping in and I do not notice. Would the boat gain weight?

Sorry for all the questions.  It was annoying to have a very heavy H14. 

Cheers, 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, vaplaya said:

Thanks much for the answer Pewit!!

So just to finish this thought.  If I hit something out sailing that breaks the skin and do not notice it until after a couple of days of sailing, I would not get any weight gain from water filtering in?   Worse case what is there are fabrication issue where water is sipping in and I do not notice. Would the boat gain weight?

Sorry for all the questions.  It was annoying to have a very heavy H14. 

Cheers, 

 

You’d gain weight from the water sloshing around in the interior - which I found after someone tipped my old boat over on the trailer and damaged the stern.

But you wouldn’t get the water soaking into the foam structure over a few days because its a closed cell foam (like pool noodles) rather than an open cell foam (like a bath sponge).

So all you’d have to do is to repair the damage to the hull and, if done properly, there’d be no lasting impact.

 However, here is a more technical answer from the YBW forums: 

Plastic foams may be classified as open-cell or closed-cell foams, depending on which type of cell predominates. According to the degree of rigidity, plastic foams may be flexible, semi-flexible (or semi-rigid) and rigid. Rigid closed-cell foams can have good thermal insulation properties and buoyancy characteristics. But closed-cell foams are more expensive than open-cell foams.
In closed-cell foams each cell (more or less spherical in shape) is completely enclosed by a thin wall or membrane of plastic, whereas in open-cell foams the individual cells are interconnected.
Expanded plastic refers to closed-cell materials; "sponge" is sometimes used for open-cell foams (e .g., sponge rubber).
Generally, no foam has entirely one type of cell structure (open- or closed-cell structure implies that the number of cells in the foam is predominantly open or closed, respectively). For example, most rigid polyurethane foams have high closed-cell contents, usually 85 to 95 per cent for a 2-lb/ft³ foam, therefore, "some" water will permeate.
In a closed-cell foam the resin membrane, which forms the cell walls, acts as a barrier to gases and liquids, although gases may pass through the membrane by the slow process of diffusion. Closed-cell foams, therefore, have lower water absorption and lower water vapor permeability than open-cell foams.
Closed-cell, rigid, low-density foams have good buoyancy characteristics and are therefore used extensively in flotation applications. 
In such materials each cell behaves as an individual float. The initial buoyancy factor of a foam is equal to the density of the liquid on which it floats less the density of the foam. For example, 1 cubic foot of plastic foam having a density of 2 lb/ft³ will support a load of 60.5 lb/ft³ [62.5 lb/ft³ (density of water) — 2.0 lb/ft³]; as the foam absorbs water the factor decreases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You guys might find this interesting - https://www.wetamarine.com/news-and-events/weta-foil-2008/

Weta foil design brief:

- One person rig, launch, retrieve and stow

- To be used for recreational and racing

- To give a high tech foil experience for a reasonably experienced sailor

- Must be robust with a rig tolerant of reasonable error

- To be sailed comfortably in a range of sea conditions in up to 20 knots of wind

- To keep in touch with an A cat upwind but have a good controllable downwind performance

- Easily dismantled for shipping

- Retail around USD20,000

The concept had great promise but it was hard to beat the simplicity, stability and versatility of the classic Weta.

large-Anarchy-Weta-foil-2008-comparison-

large-Anarchy-Weta-foil-2008-1.JPG

large-Anarchy-Weta-foil-2008-2.JPG

large-Anarchy-Weta-foil-2008-5.JPG

large-Anarchy-Weta-foil-2008-6.JPG

large-Anarchy-Weta-foil-2008-7.JPG

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Weta Fleet, 

I am active in the Hobie 16 fleet in Auckland. I'm trying to put together some beach cat/trimaran regattas going, so I'd like to reach out to someone in the NZ weta fleet. Hopefully the paper tiger and A-cat guys might also be keen to have joint regattas where all the local beach cat/trimaran boats compete. They commonly do this type of stuff in America and Australia, but I've noticed ever since moving to NZ that it's quite separate here. Someone in the NZ Weta fleet please PM me. Thanks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, BboySlug said:

Hi Weta Fleet, 

I am active in the Hobie 16 fleet in Auckland. I'm trying to put together some beach cat/trimaran regattas going, so I'd like to reach out to someone in the NZ weta fleet. Hopefully the paper tiger and A-cat guys might also be keen to have joint regattas where all the local beach cat/trimaran boats compete. They commonly do this type of stuff in America and Australia, but I've noticed ever since moving to NZ that it's quite separate here. Someone in the NZ Weta fleet please PM me. Thanks. 

Since Weta Marine are based near Auckland and Roger Kitchen, the MD, is secretary of the NZ Weta Class Association, I suggest you contact him directly at roger@wetamarine.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With just a little help from my friends ... we have cornered a yellow 2010 Weta that seems to have sailed perhaps twice in its life. It's now in Miami, FL. Initial outing this morning -- v light winds, but gorgeous first sail.

This boat wants to go sailing, and we'll to to make her happy. It's on a trailer, mast up, by the water, 10m to hoist sails and go.

@Tom Kirkman - I'm a big follower of your videos! Great stuff! What's your tiller extension setup?

True story: living in Wellington NZ I found a weta (insect) in my towel as I was drying off from the shower. Up close next to my face.  Google up some images to see the size and look of those monsters! Ah man did I scream!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everybody was talking about twin tillers on the Weta but nobody was doing it so I fabbed up a set from carbon sticks. They are attached to the main tiller arm via 2-inch sections of heavy rubber tubing, with holes punched to accept a 1/4-20 nut and bolt. I have them tethered to the tramps with quick release plastic clips hanging from short sections of 1/8th inch line. Length  is only enough to allow me to reach the end of each extension when I am fully hiked out on the tramp rails with my butt about a foot beyond the rail. The clips are easy to release, one-handed, so in the rare instances I want to go forward in the cockpit, I can keep the extension in hand. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats on your new purchase Martin - it sounds like a bargain!

Before deciding to go the twin tiller route, you might want to look at the Laser-style traveller option for the Weta which was developed in Australia for the World Masters Games. It means you can hang on to the tiller through the tack. All it requires is a spare loop of line around the ama arms.

More details on the Weta Forum here 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

martin.langhoff  -  If you store your Primo Weta rigged, mast-up, on the trailer you MIGHT want to consider what I think is the best cover available. It is made by Kinder Industries in Rhode Island. Picture on their site under one-design covers is of my boat. He made the first one for me and the fit is excellent. It has been tweeked slightly for minor improvements in subsequent orders. The optional sprit cover allows the assy to remain rigged ( just drop the sail to the deck and cover it and the sprit ) to save more time. Not cheap but worth it. Enjoy your new boat! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you! Short vid summarizing first 3 outings below. I'll be looking at twin extensions and the traveler. I've protected the ama arms with mylar tape so they don't grind while stored.

Re covers, the Kinder Industries looks great, and also ... seems to cost significantly more than getting the Sunandrain.co.uk cover done and shipped. Will call them and ask a bit more.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice video - if you're looking for a camera which you can set and forget, take a look at the Warrior XM G1 - it has a 6 hr battery and records at 1080px 30fps.

It uses standard 1/4" mounts and I recommend the 1/4" Sony mounts as they are cheaper than GoPro, use 316 Stainless Steel and have fewer parts to catch a rope. The  Roll Bar Mount fits the bowsprit (I mount mine about 1ft in front of the bow) and the handlebar mount works well with a Suckerstick suction pole mount at the stern.
Details: Cameras , Mounts

Pair this with the free RaceQs app on your smartphone for tracking and analysis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bhyde asked for ideas to replace the lashing in forestay in the Searail forum, here is my retribution to the ideas he gave me.

Problem:

The lashing is simple thus beautiful, but I got fed up with the time it takes to tighten right, the sweat, the curses when I had to re-do it, and prying out the buried line with a screwdriver when un-doing it. You might say I wasn´t doing it right, but I tried averything and couldn´t find a way to make the lashing work for me, so... I had to go the complicated way.

Second problem I wanted to solve, and this is also personal, I wanted a furling jib, but didn´t want to loose 4" of it, or have it 4" higher to accomodate the furler.

Third: I wanted to re-tighten the rig if necessary on the water.

Idea:

I replaced the dyneema strop with an aluminum contraption with 4:1 forestay adjustment and a cleat to keep it tight.

- the "thing" is made of alu plate, screwed toghether

- it is secured to the strop holes in the deck with SS fasteners, locking nuts, and a couple half sections of alu pipe below in the round lip, to distribute the load (bit of broken windsurf boom is perfect for this). The screws are a bit at an angle and need to be smaller than the strop hole. That requires a thin plate to prevent the fasteners to open and load up the holes sides, it goes below the device, pictures show it clearly. Didn´t need to do any new holes to the boat.

- the fasteners plane needs to be in line with the forestay pull, otherwise you need a stronger system to cope with the resultant moment

- 4:1 ratio is achieved with little ronstan blocks, and the standard SS ring on the forestay side. Of course the friction reduces the ratio a lot, but the main thing is it is compact. 

- the blocks are tied to the alu plate through rounded holes. Made some channels in the lower side of the plate between holes, to accomodate the lashings. 

- the cleat to secure the line needs to be screwed to the same plate. If you try to put the cleat i.e. at the mast, there will be another torque to counter and it will need a much stronger attachment to the deck.

- the line then goes to the cockpit with no tension

How does it work:

- it is rock solid. I´ve had it for a year, sailed in some 20kt days with lumpy water, never a problem.

- a couple of pulls and you get all the tension you want, fast and easy. Undoing it is easy, just unlock the line in the cleat (I leave the forestay attached, you need to adapt to your rigging habits).

- You can re-tighten in the water, but never needed it.

- with this system, ALL THE PURCHASE FOR RIG TENSION GOES HORIZONTAL, so the forestay ring can get very low. So: with the std jib, you can make it almost a deck sweeper if you want, because you tack it to the plate, not the ring. With the furling jib, this means it will go at the same height as the std jib, no change in sheeting, height, nor size. I did a custom jib same size as the std jib.

- Con: it has a lot of parts and you need to check everything once in a while.

 

I hope the pictures and the explanation make sense.

Cheers

forestay attachment1.jpg

forestay attachment2.jpg

forestay attachment3.jpg

forestay attachment4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, vaplaya said:

That is some bad ass looking mount.  :D

 

Cheers, 

yeah... V2 could be smaller and lighter. It´s not heavy, it looks like, though.

I tried to think of something simpler but run out of ideas, and then a friend of mine who likes to machine things for a hobby, offered me to build it for free so I thought, what the heck, just do it. He does nice work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sail(plane) said:

yeah... V2 could be smaller and lighter. It´s not heavy, it looks like, though.

I tried to think of something simpler but run out of ideas, and then a friend of mine who likes to machine things for a hobby, offered me to build it for free so I thought, what the heck, just do it. He does nice work.

You could have made it out of carbon like one of the French Weta owners..
About EUR 100 apparrently

photo %282%29.JPG

photo %283%29.JPG

photo %284%29.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like it, we had our Weta forestay losing tension, even getting untied while sailing. Jib halyard kept the rig in place...

It seems to me that you can setup a couple blocks (ie tiny shockblocks) on the existing setup, and to a camcleat. In other words, the metal/carbon bits are optional (though powerful at demolition derby time).

All you need is to drill two holes and screw the camcleat, tie a couple knots to support blocks/shock blocks.

Is there a concrete upside to changing the rig tension on the water, for a Weta?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got some good ideas from this.  Thanks.  One thing I've noticed with Weta's I"ve sailed and watched while sailing is that skippers often forget to release tension on the spin when going to weather (like in the photo above with the furled red spin).  This means the forestay isn't getting the rig load so the jib luff isn't the bar tight that you want to point well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

Got some good ideas from this.  Thanks.  One thing I've noticed with Weta's I"ve sailed and watched while sailing is that skippers often forget to release tension on the spin when going to weather (like in the photo above with the furled red spin).  This means the forestay isn't getting the rig load so the jib luff isn't the bar tight that you want to point well.

Thom, the gennaker luff rope in the Weta is quite stretchy, vs the forestay much more rigid. And while it is normal to give it some tension, it is never as much as the forestay has. So, the forestay always look quite taut when sailing upwind. Are you saying the little tension the gennaker has still affects the jib even if you can´t see any slack in the forestay?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, martin.langhoff said:

I like it, we had our Weta forestay losing tension, even getting untied while sailing. Jib halyard kept the rig in place...

It seems to me that you can setup a couple blocks (ie tiny shockblocks) on the existing setup, and to a camcleat. In other words, the metal/carbon bits are optional (though powerful at demolition derby time).

All you need is to drill two holes and screw the camcleat, tie a couple knots to support blocks/shock blocks.

Is there a concrete upside to changing the rig tension on the water, for a Weta?

Yes you could mount blocks and cleats directly on deck... there would be holes with no backplate... mmm ok some ideas for V2

Actually I remember thinking "am I going to put this chunk of metal on the bow?" but afterwards got used to it and don´t even see the "ramming device" anymore :D

 

Never got the lashing untied while sailing, that´s strange. What can and will slip is the knots in the dyneema bridle that holds the ring, be careful with that. It´s difficult to tie better knots, because you need more lenght and then the bridle will end up longer. I loctited the knots and never slipped again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, sail(plane) said:

Thom, the gennaker luff rope in the Weta is quite stretchy, vs the forestay much more rigid. And while it is normal to give it some tension, it is never as much as the forestay has. So, the forestay always look quite taut when sailing upwind. Are you saying the little tension the gennaker has still affects the jib even if you can´t see any slack in the forestay?

Yes, the genny luff rope does affect the tension you are putting on the forestay unless you allow a noticeable slackness.  Mast will go back another 2-3 inches.  If you are just playing, no worries, but if you are racing and you don't want to drop gen completely (like a short upwind leg), should still loosen while beating, then tighten again prior to downwind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of putting a hardware store on the front of the boat, I kind of went in a different direction. I just use a fixed strop to pin the headstay. There is no plate or multiple wraps of line involved. Here's what it looks like when rigged.

 

IMAG0448.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A simple block and tackle attached to the dolly is used to securely tension the headstay. Attach the block and tackle to the headstay, tension, attach the strop and Bob's yer uncle.

IMAG0452_Temp2.thumb.jpg.802c2d804bdfc3f0e877f4fbb9cf648a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people have worried about the knots used to hold the V-shaped bridle on the headstay attachment point. No problem, make a strop that goes around the underside of the bow. Like this.

 

IMAG0445_temp3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone asked about the forward tramp loop-n-ball setup.

Here it is. Put a ball on the end of the lineIMAG0438_ball4.thumb.jpg.5c759fdef22572fd1a9bcbdbce449378.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tension the line at the back of the boat as usual. No more knots.

IMAG0442_ball5.thumb.jpg.fe87e4f9a0b783f21628cf1bb5ace50d.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love the loop and ball, going downstairs to make one up NOW. Anything that speeds the rigging up is a winner, my rig time reduced in a big way once I worked out the halyards stay in and just poke inside the upper half of mast with a foam block stuffed in for security.

We must be better at knots in OZ, the lashing on the headstay works fine as is, but the removable pulley system and strop is a great idea too as long as you don't want to adjust the rig much.

IMHO the extra hardware some have bolted on the bow of such a beautifully clean and functional boat is overkill.

 

Peter H   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, plywoodboy said:

Love the loop and ball, going downstairs to make one up NOW. Anything that speeds the rigging up is a winner, my rig time reduced in a big way once I worked out the halyards stay in and just poke inside the upper half of mast with a foam block stuffed in for security.

We must be better at knots in OZ, the lashing on the headstay works fine as is, but the removable pulley system and strop is a great idea too as long as you don't want to adjust the rig much.

IMHO the extra hardware some have bolted on the bow of such a beautifully clean and functional boat is overkill.

 

Peter H   

Simple is good IMHO. A number of us here in SF have experimented with different rig tensions in different conditions. Doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. Because of the rig geometry, the mainsheet is what determines the majority of the headstay tension. Even in light conditions, using less tension doesn't seem to do much since the jib is cut flat as a board and the battens are stiff as hell. 

I'm sure everyone in OZ/NZ can tie better knots than us. I heard you guys fall out of the womb onto boats ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bhyde said:

Simple is good IMHO. A number of us here in SF have experimented with different rig tensions in different conditions. Doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. Because of the rig geometry, the mainsheet is what determines the majority of the headstay tension. Even in light conditions, using less tension doesn't seem to do much since the jib is cut flat as a board and the battens are stiff as hell. 

I'm sure everyone in OZ/NZ can tie better knots than us. I heard you guys fall out of the womb onto boats ;)

i can't see the strop working if you want to adjust rake of mast, which i think has a big influence on performance. And the ball thingy don't see how you would need it, but hoping to see plywoodboy's application.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm just surprised no one has switched to a 2:1 jib halyard.  I was trying to get my weta owner to do that but then he got hurt and sold the boat.  Easy to reach, one additional tiny block and replacement halyard. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

I'm just surprised no one has switched to a 2:1 jib halyard.  I was trying to get my weta owner to do that but then he got hurt and sold the boat.  Easy to reach, one additional tiny block and replacement halyard. 

I think what you are looking for is a 2:1 halyard adjuster to tension the halyard while sailing in big air. The halyard tends to stretch a lot and leave you with a sloppy jib. A jib halyard tensioner can be rigged 2:1 with no boat mods. The jib halyard clam cleat on the mast has a roller on it. Just tie a loop in the halyard about 12" above the cleat, then pass the halyard through the roller, back up to the loop, and then down through the cleat. Kind of a truckers hitch. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, rodlaser said:

i can't see the strop working if you want to adjust rake of mast, which i think has a big influence on performance. And the ball thingy don't see how you would need it, but hoping to see plywoodboy's application.

The ball thingy is used to eliminate the need to tie knots and speed rigging and de-rigging. I use it for the tramps (as shown above), jib sheet, spin sheet, and jib halyard. It's just a convenience that makes things simple, no metal and no knots.

If you want to adjust rake, just use a different length strop. Set your chainplate pins accordingly (if you still use them, we don't). 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/21/2018 at 9:11 AM, bhyde said:

I think what you are looking for is a 2:1 halyard adjuster to tension the halyard while sailing in big air. The halyard tends to stretch a lot and leave you with a sloppy jib. A jib halyard tensioner can be rigged 2:1 with no boat mods. The jib halyard clam cleat on the mast has a roller on it. Just tie a loop in the halyard about 12" above the cleat, then pass the halyard through the roller, back up to the loop, and then down through the cleat. Kind of a truckers hitch. 

Yah, that would work and you wouldn't need to replace the halyard.  Issue for us was those jam cleats on the mast (we had jam cleats, no cam or clam cleats)...didn't hold that well.  Tiny lines for the halyards makes it even more difficult to put tension on the jib luff.  Had it been my boat a lot of things would've been modded (like spinlocks for the halyards and dyneema halyards).  I invested in a dry top because of that boat....firehose spray was exhilarating but also saps your body heat since water in Carquinez is so cold. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The current boats have cam cleats for the jib and gennaker halyards and a T-cleat for the main halyard - but that is locked into a V-cleat at the top of the mast anyways so is under no strain.

I've tied in a Ronstan sheeveless block (aka Shock) into the jib sheet  for the 2:1 so it ends up 10cm above the cleat to prevents wear on the rope. With the 2:1 I don't think you need the expense of spinlocks.

I've also now replaced the wire leader with Dyneema (lighter and maintenance free compared to wire) braided to a thinner dyneema core main halyard. We also developed a Traveller amongst other mods for the World Masters Games, so you no longer have to pass the tiller around the stern - more info here.

I've replaced the swivel jib cleats with swivel spinlocks because the standard cleats are difficult to release in strong winds.  An alternative is to use a 2:1 on the jib sheet to increase leverage.

There's no change in the firehose but I now have self-cleaning Sacuba sunglasses which means I can usually see where I'm going!

Picture

Finally I've got rid of the falling birds nest of halyards on the mast (which always fell down in the middle of a race) with a halyard holder/water bottle cooler - Available for only A$20 from the Australian Weta Class here.

AWCA halyard holder.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ha! I was sailing yesterday in 20kt gusting 25 for the first time, and the firehose is damn real. I had a pair of SeaSpecs and they mostly worked. At times, I still pined for the ski mask.

@Pewit - do you leave the shock block set on the halyard? (I set it with a loop knot yesterday). Even with the additional tension set, it visibly slacked over the 3hr sail we had. So I should ask are the halyards not dyneema core? The halyards I have are fresh, new, from a 2010 boat I found in a time capsule. The jib halyard def needs to hold its tension.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I leave the shock block tied in the loop - it means you can’t fully drop the jib but it comes down far enough.

I suspect the old boats don’t come with Dyneema core (my 2009 boat didn’t #325 but it wasn’t new when I got it). My 2027 boat came with Dyneema core halyards as well as the forestry lashing line. 

I usually loosely tie the jib when rigging then tension it fully after I’ve raised the genneker otherwise it slackens a bit.

if you’re sailing solo the additional blocks tied to the front Ama arms for the genneker sheets is a big improvement- it gives better grip for the block but it really helps to have everything in front  of you - similarly with crossover jib sheets attached to the job clew from a loop in the centre of the sheet using soft shackles. Also it keeps the sheets from under your feet.

Combined with the traveller, it means you can gybe and tack facing forward which is better for boat handling.

Ive tried ski goggles but I found the foam in the vents absorbed water and they started to steam up. You do need something with open vents to keep it fog free. I’ve reviewed some goggles and glasses here

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/28/2018 at 12:02 PM, Pewit said:

Yes I leave the shock block tied in the loop - it means you can’t fully drop the jib but it comes down far enough.

Great advise, thank you @Pewit! Your wetaforums site and this thread are my go-to resources.

I'll change the halyard to dyneema for the jib, perhaps the spinnaker too. Have a bunch of shockblocks so can add those anytime. 

The crossover jib sheets are also on my list.

This is a shared Weta (purchased with some friends), so I'm trying to keep it simple and reasonably standard. Might get the traveler setup done, but seems a bit more involved. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites