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Shootist Jeff

Brit Sniper kills 6 taliban with 1 bullet @ 930 yds

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Oh boy I hope this thread doesn't trigger an explosion of smartassed responses

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US deaths in Afghanistan in the Month of March : 0.

 

just thought I;d point that out

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How much is that set-up gonna cost??

 

US deaths in Afghanistan in the Month of March : 0.

 

just thought I;d point that out

Good news.

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Oh boy I hope this thread doesn't trigger an explosion of smartassed responses

In my opinion, when that happens the thread is shot!

 

He did a bang up job. B)

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I guess the suicide bomber had a vested interest in the outcome.

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How much is that set-up gonna cost??

 

Depends on the model. The closest to a Mil-spec rifle is about $7500 USD. The Scope (Schmidt & Bender 5-25x) is another $3800. That rifle in the pic is the Accuracy International (AI) L115A3 for the British military. The US version is called the AI AW (Arctic Warfare). Same same. Both are chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum. The military version supposedly runs about $38K. But I think that includes all the goodies like scope, suppressor, etc.

 

The version I'm getting is an earlier AI AE Mk3 in 6.5 Creedmore. It goes for about $3500 USD. I already have that exact scope I can move from another rifle, so no need to buy another scope.

 

The accuracy between the two is pretty much identical (AI AW vs the AI AE). The Mil spec AW is a lot more robust and is proven to work in extreme conditions of hot and cold. I also had no desire for the .338LM chambering. Besides being a bitch on your shoulder after a couple of rounds, its overkill for anything under 1000 yds and its $5 per trigger pull for the rounds.

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US deaths in Afghanistan in the Month of March : 0.

 

just thought I;d point that out

Any word on the number of military suicides in March?

 

Ya, I know, take it to PA

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Jeff. What the heck would ya do with such a rifle? Is it for target shooting? Seems like it's not for hunting.

 

BTW - shouldn't have to say it but in this place I should.....no malice or political agenda in the question. Pure curiosity.

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Jeff. What the heck would ya do with such a rifle? Is it for target shooting? Seems like it's not for hunting.

 

BTW - shouldn't have to say it but in this place I should.....no malice or political agenda in the question. Pure curiosity.

 

For exactly what Kent said above. Long range target shooting is one of my hobbies. And yes it could be used for hunting, but who wants to lug a 16lb rifle around through the woods and over mountains? Its not a lightweight or compact rifle by any stretch of the imagination. Its just an incredibly precise and incredibly well made rifle for long range shooting.

 

And I never take anything you say as malice or an agenda. You are one of the few however.......

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''A British sniper in Afghanistan killed six insurgents with a single bullet after hitting the trigger switch of a suicide bomber whose device then exploded ''

 

....a proud moment in west-east relations :mellow:

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Jeff. What the heck would ya do with such a rifle? Is it for target shooting? Seems like it's not for hunting.

BTW - shouldn't have to say it but in this place I should.....no malice or political agenda in the question. Pure curiosity.

For exactly what Kent said above. Long range target shooting is one of my hobbies. And yes it could be used for hunting, but who wants to lug a 16lb rifle around through the woods and over mountains? Its not a lightweight or compact rifle by any stretch of the imagination. Its just an incredibly precise and incredibly well made rifle for long range shooting.

 

And I never take anything you say as malice or an agenda. You are one of the few however.......

Got it. I can kinda see the challenge of long range accuracy and the appeal of a well made tool. It just seems so expensive for that. But who am I to judge........you should see my collection of woodworking tools......and I have a sailboat.

 

And thanks......

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''A British sniper in Afghanistan killed six insurgents with a single bullet after hitting the trigger switch of a suicide bomber whose device then exploded ''

 

....a proud moment in west-east relations :mellow:

Would you have preferred if they had detonatated both the bomb vest he was wearing and the one found nearby killing a load of soldiers????????? <_< <_<

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How much is that set-up gonna cost??

 

Depends on the model. The closest to a Mil-spec rifle is about $7500 USD. The Scope (Schmidt & Bender 5-25x) is another $3800. That rifle in the pic is the Accuracy International (AI) L115A3 for the British military. The US version is called the AI AW (Arctic Warfare). Same same. Both are chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum. The military version supposedly runs about $38K. But I think that includes all the goodies like scope, suppressor, etc.

 

The version I'm getting is an earlier AI AE Mk3 in 6.5 Creedmore. It goes for about $3500 USD. I already have that exact scope I can move from another rifle, so no need to buy another scope.

 

The accuracy between the two is pretty much identical (AI AW vs the AI AE). The Mil spec AW is a lot more robust and is proven to work in extreme conditions of hot and cold. I also had no desire for the .338LM chambering. Besides being a bitch on your shoulder after a couple of rounds, its overkill for anything under 1000 yds and its $5 per trigger pull for the rounds.

Thanks Jeff, it was the Mil-spec price that I saw and was just starting to wonder what your daily rate in the desert really is? :P

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Jeff. What the heck would ya do with such a rifle? Is it for target shooting? Seems like it's not for hunting.

 

BTW - shouldn't have to say it but in this place I should.....no malice or political agenda in the question. Pure curiosity.

 

For exactly what Kent said above. Long range target shooting is one of my hobbies. And yes it could be used for hunting, but who wants to lug a 16lb rifle around through the woods and over mountains? Its not a lightweight or compact rifle by any stretch of the imagination. Its just an incredibly precise and incredibly well made rifle for long range shooting.

 

And I never take anything you say as malice or an agenda. You are one of the few however.......

 

One of the guys on a local hunting message board here used his 338 LM to take a deer at a little over 700yards. Was parked at the head of a long straight power line run. Sat down in a fold out chair with his coffee, just a few yards from his truck, and just watched for a deer to cross the clearing. No hiking with the rifle, but still had a half mile drag to get the deer back to his truck. But yeah, 15lb rifles are not typically used in hunting.

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One of the guys on a local hunting message board here used his 338 LM to take a deer at a little over 700yards. Was parked at the head of a long straight power line run. Sat down in a fold out chair with his coffee, just a few yards from his truck, and just watched for a deer to cross the clearing. No hiking with the rifle, but still had a half mile drag to get the deer back to his truck. But yeah, 15lb rifles are not typically used in hunting.

.

...maybe face the chair up-hill next time,,,,then all you need to do is go for a walk with the take-up chord :mellow:

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So the sniper gets credit for 1. The suicide bomber for 5 and Allah gets to sort them out. piece them together

 

 

fixed

.

....maybe each of the 6000 virgins gets one peice!?

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How much is that set-up gonna cost??

 

Depends on the model. The closest to a Mil-spec rifle is about $7500 USD. The Scope (Schmidt & Bender 5-25x) is another $3800. That rifle in the pic is the Accuracy International (AI) L115A3 for the British military. The US version is called the AI AW (Arctic Warfare). Same same. Both are chambered in .338 Lapua Magnum. The military version supposedly runs about $38K. But I think that includes all the goodies like scope, suppressor, etc.

 

The version I'm getting is an earlier AI AE Mk3 in 6.5 Creedmore. It goes for about $3500 USD. I already have that exact scope I can move from another rifle, so no need to buy another scope.

 

The accuracy between the two is pretty much identical (AI AW vs the AI AE). The Mil spec AW is a lot more robust and is proven to work in extreme conditions of hot and cold. I also had no desire for the .338LM chambering. Besides being a bitch on your shoulder after a couple of rounds, its overkill for anything under 1000 yds and its $5 per trigger pull for the rounds.

Thanks Jeff, it was the Mil-spec price that I saw and was just starting to wonder what your daily rate in the desert really is? :P

 

I don't make that much. And I'm finding my excess cash is going into racing boats and sails at the moment. Who said OD is cheap??? So much for my retirement fund :lol:

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I'd love to have a day on the range with that thing, just don't think I'd use it enough to justify the out lay...

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So the sniper gets credit for 1. The suicide bomber for 5 and Allah gets to sort them out. piece them together

 

 

fixed

.

....maybe each of the 6000 virgins gets one peice!?

 

no there would only be 432 virgins involved in this particular transaction.

 

Speaking of which, you would think since the whole beginning of the GWOT - that allah would be running low on virgins. You gotta figure that between shock & awe, drone strikes, 11 years of fighting in Afghanistan, SEAL team raids, etc. that he would be running low on young virgin boys by now.

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''A British sniper in Afghanistan killed six insurgents with a single bullet after hitting the trigger switch of a suicide bomber whose device then exploded ''

 

....a proud moment in west-east relations :mellow:

 

That suicide bomber sure was Switched ON! :lol:

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no there would only be 432 virgins involved in this particular transaction.

 

Speaking of which, you would think since the whole beginning of the GWOT - that allah would be running low on virgins. You gotta figure that between shock & awe, drone strikes, 11 years of fighting in Afghanistan, SEAL team raids, etc. that he would be running low on young virgin boys by now.

As always, one should read the fine print: there are 72 houris in all as islam heaven staff - and they get "retreaded" after each encounter, much more efficient. Admittedly, they've been overworked as of late, and there's a bit of a waiting line (think U.S. Immigration)

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no there would only be 432 virgins involved in this particular transaction.

 

Speaking of which, you would think since the whole beginning of the GWOT - that allah would be running low on virgins. You gotta figure that between shock & awe, drone strikes, 11 years of fighting in Afghanistan, SEAL team raids, etc. that he would be running low on young virgin boys by now.

As always, one should read the fine print: there are 72 houris in all as islam heaven staff - and they get "retreaded" after each encounter, much more efficient. Admittedly, they've been overworked as of late, and there's a bit of a waiting line (think U.S. Immigration)

 

Wow, if so - that's a lot of hymen reconstruction going on.......

 

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Jeff. What the heck would ya do with such a rifle? Is it for target shooting? Seems like it's not for hunting.

BTW - shouldn't have to say it but in this place I should.....no malice or political agenda in the question. Pure curiosity.

 

For exactly what Kent said above. Long range target shooting is one of my hobbies. And yes it could be used for hunting, but who wants to lug a 16lb rifle around through the woods and over mountains? Its not a lightweight or compact rifle by any stretch of the imagination. Its just an incredibly precise and incredibly well made rifle for long range shooting.

 

And I never take anything you say as malice or an agenda. You are one of the few however.......

One of the guys on a local hunting message board here used his 338 LM to take a deer at a little over 700yards. Was parked at the head of a long straight power line run. Sat down in a fold out chair with his coffee, just a few yards from his truck, and just watched for a deer to cross the clearing. No hiking with the rifle, but still had a half mile drag to get the deer back to his truck. But yeah, 15lb rifles are not typically used in hunting.

What sort of heat was the deer packing Lenny?

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One of the guys on a local hunting message board here used his 338 LM to take a deer at a little over 700yards. Was parked at the head of a long straight power line run. Sat down in a fold out chair with his coffee, just a few yards from his truck, and just watched for a deer to cross the clearing. No hiking with the rifle, but still had a half mile drag to get the deer back to his truck. But yeah, 15lb rifles are not typically used in hunting.

What sort of heat was the deer packing Lenny?

 

Dinner.

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Jeff. What the heck would ya do with such a rifle? Is it for target shooting? Seems like it's not for hunting.

 

BTW - shouldn't have to say it but in this place I should.....no malice or political agenda in the question. Pure curiosity.

For exactly what Kent said above. Long range target shooting is one of my hobbies. And yes it could be used for hunting, but who wants to lug a 16lb rifle around through the woods and over mountains? Its not a lightweight or compact rifle by any stretch of the imagination. Its just an incredibly precise and incredibly well made rifle for long range shooting.

 

And I never take anything you say as malice or an agenda. You are one of the few however.......

One of the guys on a local hunting message board here used his 338 LM to take a deer at a little over 700yards. Was parked at the head of a long straight power line run. Sat down in a fold out chair with his coffee, just a few yards from his truck, and just watched for a deer to cross the clearing. No hiking with the rifle, but still had a half mile drag to get the deer back to his truck. But yeah, 15lb rifles are not typically used in hunting.

Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

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Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

 

I should have known you would be an expert on yet another thing you have no knowledge or experience with. I never said it happened in PA, it happened in Maine, and I just read the story and saw the pics, I don't personally know the guy and was not there. Further, 700 yards is not a low probablility shot for some people. With that rifle, it is the equivalent of a bow shot at 40 or 50 yards, which is just fine if you have the skill. Seriously Mike, just because you own a $100 worth of russian milsurp rifle parts, and once saw an elk when you were hiking, does not make you an expert on rifles, ballistics, and hunting.

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Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

 

I should have known you would be an expert on yet another thing you have no knowledge or experience with. I never said it happened in PA, it happened in Maine, and I just read the story and saw the pics, I don't personally know the guy and was not there. Further, 700 yards is not a low probablility shot for some people. With that rifle, it is the equivalent of a bow shot at 40 or 50 yards, which is just fine if you have the skill. Seriously Mike, just because you own a $100 worth of russian milsurp rifle parts, and once saw an elk when you were hiking, does not make you an expert on rifles, ballistics, and hunting.

 

Golf clap! Thank you.

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Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

JFC, do you ever get tired of constantly being wrong and pontification on subjects you know jack shit about? I'm guessing not, everyone's gotta have a hobby I guess. Yours appears to being a "know it all".

 

700 yds with a 338LM is a low % shot? Even a relatively competent shooter could easily make that shot with that rifle. This is the same round that is making 2400m shots on Taliban's skulls. If you're worried about movement, a deer can move enough during the TOF of a bullet during a 200 yds shot to turn it into a lower percentage shot.

 

Who the fuck are YOU to judge??? You're an idiot.

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I'd love to have a day on the range with that thing, just don't think I'd use it enough to justify the out lay...

 

Wouldn't a day at the range with that rifle turn your shoulder to mush?

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I'd love to have a day on the range with that thing, just don't think I'd use it enough to justify the out lay...

Wouldn't a day at the range with that rifle turn your shoulder to mush?

I'd suggest at $5 a go my wallet would turn to mush before my shoulder did

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I'd love to have a day on the range with that thing, just don't think I'd use it enough to justify the out lay...

Wouldn't a day at the range with that rifle turn your shoulder to mush?

I'd suggest at $5 a go my wallet would turn to mush before my shoulder did

 

Exactly, which is why I'm getting it in 6.5 Creedmore rather than 338 Lapua Magnum. Very low recoil and easy on the wallet when you reload. And its a great flat shooting round out to 1300 yds or so.

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Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

I should have known you would be an expert on yet another thing you have no knowledge or experience with. I never said it happened in PA, it happened in Maine, and I just read the story and saw the pics, I don't personally know the guy and was not there. Further, 700 yards is not a low probablility shot for some people. With that rifle, it is the equivalent of a bow shot at 40 or 50 yards, which is just fine if you have the skill. Seriously Mike, just because you own a $100 worth of russian milsurp rifle parts, and once saw an elk when you were hiking, does not make you an expert on rifles, ballistics, and hunting.

I'll ignore your insult for now. I think it's unethical to shoot animals from 700 yards. Wild animals are twitchy, it's less about the accuracy than about how much an animal can move in almost a second.

 

If you're okay with it that's your business.

 

Just curious ... are you okay with it?

 

And Len, do you have a link to that site? I would be surprised if other deer hunters in the area didn't write their objections to what he did.

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Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

JFC, do you ever get tired of constantly being wrong and pontification on subjects you know jack shit about? I'm guessing not, everyone's gotta have a hobby I guess. Yours appears to being a "know it all".

 

700 yds with a 338LM is a low % shot? Even a relatively competent shooter could easily make that shot with that rifle. This is the same round that is making 2400m shots on Taliban's skulls. If you're worried about movement, a deer can move enough during the TOF of a bullet during a 200 yds shot to turn it into a lower percentage shot.

 

Who the fuck are YOU to judge??? You're an idiot.

I'll ignore your insult too, and assume that you've not had a look at those muscles if you field dressed a deer, that can easily move the entire animal from kill to bleed out in 7/10 of a second. And yes, 200 yards is pushing it a bit too, but in 700 yards the chance the animal twitches is multiplied by about 4. Some hunters won't take a 200 yard shot, a 700 yard shot is another thing completely.

 

Taliban skulls are not deer ... one is war, the other isn't. A hunter has a different ethical obligation than a soldier, and should avoid shooting animals if there is a strong chance that the animal will suffer needlessly.

 

In my opinion paper targets are for long distance shooting, not deer. But I'm curious with you too ... do you have any ethical objection with someone shooting an animal from 700 yards?

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I'll ignore your insult for now. I think it's unethical to shoot animals from 700 yards. Wild animals are twitchy, it's less about the accuracy than about how much an animal can move in almost a second.

 

If you're okay with it that's your business.

 

Just curious ... are you okay with it?

 

And Len, do you have a link to that site? I would be surprised if other deer hunters in the area didn't write their objections to what he did.

 

It more of an observtion than an insult. You have no experience shooting these types of rifles, and no experience hunting whitetails, and probably no experience hunting at all. If I am wrong about that, plese post your hunting and shooting experience so I can apologize for being wrong. If I am right, then you ought to admit you were pulling stuff out of your ass again.

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Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

JFC, do you ever get tired of constantly being wrong and pontification on subjects you know jack shit about? I'm guessing not, everyone's gotta have a hobby I guess. Yours appears to being a "know it all".

 

700 yds with a 338LM is a low % shot? Even a relatively competent shooter could easily make that shot with that rifle. This is the same round that is making 2400m shots on Taliban's skulls. If you're worried about movement, a deer can move enough during the TOF of a bullet during a 200 yds shot to turn it into a lower percentage shot.

 

Who the fuck are YOU to judge??? You're an idiot.

I'll ignore your insult too, and assume that you've not had a look at those muscles if you field dressed a deer, that can easily move the entire animal from kill to bleed out in 7/10 of a second. And yes, 200 yards is pushing it a bit too, but in 700 yards the chance the animal twitches is multiplied by about 4. Some hunters won't take a 200 yard shot, a 700 yard shot is another thing completely.

 

Taliban skulls are not deer ... one is war, the other isn't. A hunter has a different ethical obligation than a soldier, and should avoid shooting animals if there is a strong chance that the animal will suffer needlessly.

 

In my opinion paper targets are for long distance shooting, not deer. But I'm curious with you too ... do you have any ethical objection with someone shooting an animal from 700 yards?

You should seriously stick to something you have experience with.

 

200yds or 700yds it all depends on the individual. If you really know anything about hunting out here in the west you realize a large pct of our hunters are out of staters who don't know a moose from an elk, let alone how to put a bullet in the vitals.

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also one of the reports said that the shot hit a detonator

 

just an impact hit to the explosive could have been enough for a detonation to the explosives

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I'll ignore your insult for now. I think it's unethical to shoot animals from 700 yards. Wild animals are twitchy, it's less about the accuracy than about how much an animal can move in almost a second.

 

If you're okay with it that's your business.

 

Just curious ... are you okay with it?

 

And Len, do you have a link to that site? I would be surprised if other deer hunters in the area didn't write their objections to what he did.

It more of an observtion than an insult. You have no experience shooting these types of rifles, and no experience hunting whitetails, and probably no experience hunting at all. If I am wrong about that, plese post your hunting and shooting experience so I can apologize for being wrong. If I am right, then you ought to admit you were pulling stuff out of your ass again.

Tell ya what Len, I'm happy to give you a brief of my animal killing and shooting resume, it may not be as extensive as yours, but I grew up around it. Also, I don't need or want an apology, this is SA. But you first because I asked first: do you have link to the site where the guy wrote about shooting a deer from 700 yards? I can't believe the other hunters didn't rip him a new discharge vent for that. If you don't have a link, what is the name of the site?

 

Also, are you ethically okay with someone shooting healthy big game from 700 yards?

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Not sure about attitudes on this in PA, but out West it's a big no-no to take low percentage shots on anything but paper targets and glass bottles.

 

700 yards, that's about 7/10 second away, no matter how accurate he may have thought he was, a deer can do a lot of movement in 7/10 second.

 

Did anyone report that guy to the Warden?

JFC, do you ever get tired of constantly being wrong and pontification on subjects you know jack shit about? I'm guessing not, everyone's gotta have a hobby I guess. Yours appears to being a "know it all".

 

700 yds with a 338LM is a low % shot? Even a relatively competent shooter could easily make that shot with that rifle. This is the same round that is making 2400m shots on Taliban's skulls. If you're worried about movement, a deer can move enough during the TOF of a bullet during a 200 yds shot to turn it into a lower percentage shot.

 

Who the fuck are YOU to judge??? You're an idiot.

I'll ignore your insult too, and assume that you've not had a look at those muscles if you field dressed a deer, that can easily move the entire animal from kill to bleed out in 7/10 of a second. And yes, 200 yards is pushing it a bit too, but in 700 yards the chance the animal twitches is multiplied by about 4. Some hunters won't take a 200 yard shot, a 700 yard shot is another thing completely.

 

Taliban skulls are not deer ... one is war, the other isn't. A hunter has a different ethical obligation than a soldier, and should avoid shooting animals if there is a strong chance that the animal will suffer needlessly.

 

In my opinion paper targets are for long distance shooting, not deer. But I'm curious with you too ... do you have any ethical objection with someone shooting an animal from 700 yards?

You should seriously stick to something you have experience with.

 

200yds or 700yds it all depends on the individual. If you really know anything about hunting out here in the west you realize a large pct of our hunters are out of staters who don't know a moose from an elk, let alone how to put a bullet in the vitals.

What's your point? That a good number of hunters out here have ethically questionable hunting habits?

 

It's doesn't matter how accurate is the hunter or the gun ... taking a shot from 700 yards leaves about 7/10 second for that animal to move, A deer can move an unimaginable amount in that time.

 

If you were with someone who was about to take a shot at a deer from 700 yards, would you say something like "hey, don't be a putz, if it moves you might hit it in the flank and the poor thing might bleed out"? Or would you just smile shut up?

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I'd love to have a day on the range with that thing, just don't think I'd use it enough to justify the out lay...

Hey Bowman - next time you're in my neck of the woods again we can get out with my other bang stix. I have a Weatherby in 338/378 Wby with a Swarovski z5 on it. Essentially the same ballistics as the lapua. Weighs a bit less - 12 lbs vs. 15, but I don't have a bipod on it. I've carried it on a couple of elk hunts, one of which was on foot. 12 to 16 miles a day in SW Montana through the mountains. It wasn't too bad. It's not bad to shoot what with the muzzle brake.

 

Noisy though. 5 bucks a pull for factory ammo.

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That looks like a good cartridge.

 

What barrel length / twist did you order?

 

Which bullet / weight will be using ?

 

Rolling your own or Hornady factory stuff?

 

Varget ?

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Also says the same fella shot a machine gunner from 1400 yards with his first bullet on his first tour! Pretty impressive stuff!

 

Are there competitions outside of the warzone for these kind of distances?

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Taliban skulls are not deer ... one is war, the other isn't. A hunter has a different ethical obligation than a soldier, and should avoid shooting animals if there is a strong chance that the animal will suffer needlessly.

 

That's got to be the most hilariously demented thing I've read in a while. Not sure whether to laugh or worry about your mental stability.

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Taliban skulls are not deer ... one is war, the other isn't. A hunter has a different ethical obligation than a soldier, and should avoid shooting animals if there is a strong chance that the animal will suffer needlessly.

That's got to be the most hilariously demented thing I've read in a while. Not sure whether to laugh or worry about your mental stability.

I know, it's weird, but it send true right? In deciding to get into the terrorism business (or even the fighting terrorist business) a person suddenly opens themselves up to the possibility that sometime wants them to suffer as much as possible, we all seem to like the idea of a bunch of terrorists getting blown up.

 

But a deer is just a deer, only a twisted individual would risk letting one suffer for a macho challenge. Nobody here seems willing to commit to being ethically okay with a 700 yard deer shot.

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I'd love to have a day on the range with that thing, just don't think I'd use it enough to justify the out lay...

Hey Bowman - next time you're in my neck of the woods again we can get out with my other bang stix. I have a Weatherby in 338/378 Wby with a Swarovski z5 on it. Essentially the same ballistics as the lapua. Weighs a bit less - 12 lbs vs. 15, but I don't have a bipod on it. I've carried it on a couple of elk hunts, one of which was on foot. 12 to 16 miles a day in SW Montana through the mountains. It wasn't too bad. It's not bad to shoot what with the muzzle brake.

 

Noisy though. 5 bucks a pull for factory ammo.

I will definitely try to be back if that's the case. That's a big gun to carry that far along with ammo and everything else you would have had for an extended trip

 

I'll just try to come when the weather is a little warmer, though I here this year's winter was a bit more extreme.

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Jeff. What the heck would ya do with such a rifle? Is it for target shooting? Seems like it's not for hunting.

 

BTW - shouldn't have to say it but in this place I should.....no malice or political agenda in the question. Pure curiosity.

One reason to own and maintain such an arm is to help maintain a free democracy.

If we the people maintain our firepower such that the federal government has to respect the will of the people, the government is less likely to turn oppressive.

 

The US constitution was not ratified by any state but Delaware until an amendment was added to the document guaranteeing our right to bear arms would never be infringed.

 

If you do not belong to a militia that has sufficient arms to overthrow the experimental government, you are letting down the great men who established our system of government

 

 

I am ashzmed of myself for not even knowing how to fire a weapon like that and I don't have a tank or a nuke or a ship.

 

Shame on me!!!

 

 

Note: I have no political agenda other than maintaining a free democratic government ...... And I am not doing my part

His about you ??

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Hey Gouv, why not express the right to bear arms by installing torpedo tubes in your old J24? You're not racing Psycho so why not modify it to blow some Mac 26s out of the water and to intimidate people into sailing the Easter regatta?

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In my opinion paper targets are for long distance shooting, not deer. But I'm curious with you too ... do you have any ethical objection with someone shooting an animal from 700 yards?

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion. As to your question, Yes I do have an objection to someone shooting an animal from 700 yds IF their skill and/or equipment is not up to the task. For 99% of the hunters out there, I would say that they shouldn't ever think of taking that shot. Because most of them go to the range once a year right before deer season, shoot a few rounds to sight in their scope, hunt for a week and then put the rifle back in the safe until the next deer season comes around.

 

But there are some shooters out there that would find a 700 yd shot on a deer size vital area target not terribly challenging. Especially with a round like the 338LM.

 

And I hate to break it to you, but a deer can "twitch" enough at <100 yds to go from a kill shot to a wounding shot. Shit happens. If a deer twitched the same amount @ 700 yds, its more likely you would miss altogether. And I'm not aware of any ethical issues with scaring a deer with a supersonic 250gr .338 projectile.

 

Cliffie, just because YOU would not be capable of that shot (and should not take it) doesn't mean there aren't others who couldn't or shouldn't take it. My moral objection would come from a shooter who did take it when it was beyond his/her abilities and equipment. In my own case, I could easily make that shot but I don't own a rifle capable of reliably killing a deer at that range because of the downrange energy of the bullet (.308 Win). So I would never take that shot. With a different rifle/caliber - maybe (depending on conditions). There are many elk hunts out west that are routinely taken at > 600 yds.

 

So as usual, your outrage du jour is misplaced and as usual stems from your seemingly bottomless well of ignorance.

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Are there competitions outside of the warzone for these kind of distances?

 

Yes, there is 1000 yd F-Class shooting - but that is pretty static.

 

The type of competition I do is called Long Range Precision Rifle or Tactical Match ("Tac match"). Its essentially a random course of fire anywhere from 50yds to 1500 yds that tests your long range shooting skills in unusual positions and most often under timed and/or stressful conditions. For instance, you might shoot over a barricade at a chest sized steel target @ 600m and have 60 secs to get off ten rounds - after sprinting up a hill. Another one I like is movers at 500m - that's tough. My best was 6/10 @ a 3mph steel target in 45 sec. I've shot some stages where you are shooting from the cab of an old pickup at 1000m targets. It totally varies with the venue and is limited only by the imagination of the organizers. Its a LOT of fun. These matches is primarily why I'm buying the aforementioned rifle. I need a very accurate, very flat shooting round that is good out to about 1200-1300 yds. My .308 is good but just can't compete with the guys with the flat-shooting 6 to 6.5 mm rounds.

 

This is a good example of Precision Rifle competitions

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Mike, Of course I am ok with it. I already pointed out that the time to target is roughly equivalent for a bow shot at 40 to 50 yards, a shot which I have taken. The difference is the arrow or bolt is traveling subsonic, so any sound from the release on a bow gets to the deer before the arrow or bolt as opposed to the 338 LM where the projectile gets there first, so the deer never hears the shot. More importantly though, I have never met a hunter who has an ethical problem with that shot as being low probablility. You might get some folks who say "that ain't huntin, that's sniping", and complain that shooting past x yards takes the sport out of it. It seems to me, that is actually a valid argument, whether or not one agrees with it.

 

And no Mike, I am not going to send you a link to that board. Those guys have been good about helping me learn what to do. I am appreciative and feel compelled to save them from your expertise.

 

Here is a youtube from a guy who took one at 1000 yards. Feel free to share your expertise with him. He probably could use a few pointers.

 

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^^^ Fuck, that was a good shot!

 

Me, myself would not attempt a shot at a dear at 200 yards, I'm not that good a shot, and I'd be using granddad’s Mauser 7 by 57 with iron sights.

I know enough about a bolt action rifle to keep my self out of trouble, and little else.

The range issue is inversely proportional to the shooters ability (including knowledge to have the right equipment).

 

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and feel compelled to save them from your expertise.

 

HA! POTD.

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^^^ Fuck, that was a good shot!

 

Me, myself would not attempt a shot at a dear at 200 yards, I'm not that good a shot, and I'd be using granddad’s Mauser 7 by 57 with iron sights.

I know enough about a bolt action rifle to keep my self out of trouble, and little else.

The range issue is inversely proportional to the shooters ability (including knowledge to have the right equipment).

 

With my eyes, I don't trust myself with iron sights past 50 yards. I have done that with the flintlock since I am limited to iron sights there, but I stink with iron sights. I would feel comfortable stretching it out to 200 or 300 with some of my other rifles which are scoped. I have a Rem700 in 300 winmag, which has a point blank range to 300, and that is about what I consider my limit with it. Of course, here in this part of PA it, it is uncommon to have a shot further than 100 yards. The forest is just too dense.

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^^^ Fuck, that was a good shot!

 

Me, myself would not attempt a shot at a dear at 200 yards, I'm not that good a shot, and I'd be using granddad’s Mauser 7 by 57 with iron sights.

I know enough about a bolt action rifle to keep my self out of trouble, and little else.

The range issue is inversely proportional to the shooters ability (including knowledge to have the right equipment).

 

With my eyes, I don't trust myself with iron sights past 50 yards. I have done that with the flintlock since I am limited to iron sights there, but I stink with iron sights. I would feel comfortable stretching it out to 200 or 300 with some of my other rifles which are scoped. I have a Rem700 in 300 winmag, which has a point blank range to 300, and that is about what I consider my limit with it. Of course, here in this part of PA it, it is uncommon to have a shot further than 100 yards. The forest is just too dense.

 

Hence the reason that the old lever action .30-.30 w/either open sites or a decent 3X scope is one of the most common (and effective) deer rifles. It's the same here, unless you're hunting fields. I like my bow - it's old, but, the weather's better during archery season.

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Hence the reason that the old lever action .30-.30 w/either open sites or a decent 3X scope is one of the most common (and effective) deer rifles. It's the same here, unless you're hunting fields. I like my bow - it's old, but, the weather's better during archery season.

 

Yep, I would guesstimate the deer Jon took down there to have been at maybe 25 or 30 yards. I like archery as well, am thinking about picking up a compound bow this year and using that over the crossbow. I gotta say though, I did find hunting with the flintlock really satisfying as well. The ground is covered with snow, all the other hunters are out of the woods, it is so quiet and solitary out there. It is cold, but you are usually moving and following tracks instead of sitting up on a ridge or in a tree.

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In my opinion paper targets are for long distance shooting, not deer. But I'm curious with you too ... do you have any ethical objection with someone shooting an animal from 700 yards?

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion. As to your question, Yes I do have an objection to someone shooting an animal from 700 yds IF their skill and/or equipment is not up to the task. For 99% of the hunters out there, I would say that they shouldn't ever think of taking that shot. Because most of them go to the range once a year right before deer season, shoot a few rounds to sight in their scope, hunt for a week and then put the rifle back in the safe until the next deer season comes around.

 

But there are some shooters out there that would find a 700 yd shot on a deer size vital area target not terribly challenging. Especially with a round like the 338LM.

 

And I hate to break it to you, but a deer can "twitch" enough at <100 yds to go from a kill shot to a wounding shot. Shit happens. If a deer twitched the same amount @ 700 yds, its more likely you would miss altogether. And I'm not aware of any ethical issues with scaring a deer with a supersonic 250gr .338 projectile.

 

Cliffie, just because YOU would not be capable of that shot (and should not take it) doesn't mean there aren't others who couldn't or shouldn't take it. My moral objection would come from a shooter who did take it when it was beyond his/her abilities and equipment. In my own case, I could easily make that shot but I don't own a rifle capable of reliably killing a deer at that range because of the downrange energy of the bullet (.308 Win). So I would never take that shot. With a different rifle/caliber - maybe (depending on conditions). There are many elk hunts out west that are routinely taken at > 600 yds.

 

So as usual, your outrage du jour is misplaced and as usual stems from your seemingly bottomless well of ignorance.

 

In order of the bolded bits above ...

 

1. As you noted, there is obviously a difference between a hunter, and a government-trained sniper, Len mentioned some hunter on an internet chat room who shot a deer from that distance. I guess there is a chance that he was a trained sniper, but given that you share my concern for hunting, why then did you feel the need to go full Dick Blick in your previous post?

 

2. The amount of possible, likely movement at 700 yards is almost 8 times what it would be at 100 yards. You just wrote that at 700 yards the shot might miss completely, thus you now seem to acknowledge that even a government-trained sniper is at the same disadvantage as Yahoo Joe with his one-a-year-hunting trip. Once the projectile leaves the barrel neither guy has any control over it, and the chance of it making that animal suffer beyond belief increases considerably. Okay, if the hunter's kids were starving, eh, take the shot. But if it's just an issue of sport, then being a SPORTSMAN becomes more important than practicing one's skills of accuracy, and it likely becomes UNETHICAL SHOT. Remember, it isn't wartime, it's SPORT. It's no longer a sniper rifle when he puts that deer in the scope, it suddenly becomes a sporting rifle.

 

3. Again, not sure why you have such difficulty absorbing this ... that's nearly a second of movement for that deer, it doesn't matter the skill of the sportsman or the equipment, the chance of that deer bleeding out and suffering increases considerably.

 

4. What you wrote there is silly. Out here the shots need to be longer because the animals can see the hunter from hundreds of yards, without the dense trees of other areas. If you have some high-mesa open space like we have out here, away from the pine forests where pronghorn and elk hunters do pretty well, without the dense growth that the guy in Len's thread likely had in Maine, and if you have an ATV and you're with a buddy who can spot the animal if you don't get the kill shot, then okay, a multi-hundred yard attempt might be warranted, but you have every obligation to track that animal if it's suffering under a tree and putting it out of its misery. That is very, very difficult at 600 yards if the animal is near a dense stand of trees.

 

5. Except that what you've written above seems to be leading you to the same truth I pointed out above. I'm breaking your argument, so it seems the ignorance is yours Jeff. Just being able to to do something to a piece of paper doesn't mean someone should do that to an animal. The Taliban may have signed up for the war, the deer didn't.

 

 

Taking a really long shot is shooting. It’s not really hunting. - Dan Pedrotti about 900 yard shots, http://www.outdoorhub.com/opinions/long-shots-when-does-hunting-become-target-shooting/

There is a danger that a fine and demanding shooting sport, long range target shooting, by targeting living wildlife, turns into an ugly bloodsport that gives hunting a black eye. It’s not a new problem. The traditional German hunting ethics, for instance, condemns the use of any living game animals as mere “targets.” -- Valerius Geist.

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''A British sniper in Afghanistan killed six insurgents with a single bullet after hitting the trigger switch of a suicide bomber whose device then exploded ''

 

....a proud moment in west-east relations :mellow:

I guess a prouder moment would have been when the bomber successfully took out his target?

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Mike, Of course I am ok with it. I already pointed out that the time to target is roughly equivalent for a bow shot at 40 to 50 yards, a shot which I have taken. The difference is the arrow or bolt is traveling subsonic, so any sound from the release on a bow gets to the deer before the arrow or bolt as opposed to the 338 LM where the projectile gets there first, so the deer never hears the shot. More importantly though, I have never met a hunter who has an ethical problem with that shot as being low probablility. You might get some folks who say "that ain't huntin, that's sniping", and complain that shooting past x yards takes the sport out of it. It seems to me, that is actually a valid argument, whether or not one agrees with it.

 

And no Mike, I am not going to send you a link to that board. Those guys have been good about helping me learn what to do. I am appreciative and feel compelled to save them from your expertise.

 

Here is a youtube from a guy who took one at 1000 yards. Feel free to share your expertise with him. He probably could use a few pointers.

 

Since you won't share the link, there is nothing more to really add here, but you described it as a guy on a local (not Maine) message board who sat down on a folding chair with his coffee and shot a deer on a power line run. That doesn't sound like hunting to me, it sounds like a chance of chasing a wounded deer through the brush below high tension lines would be tough. You won't share the name of the site, but I would be very surprised if he didn't get some significant negative feedback when he posted that stunt. Also sitting on a folding chair doesn't sound like a terribly stable position to take a long range shot like that.

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Wofsey - it's easy to find opinions that agree with yours. It's much harder to admit that someone else's opinion, even if it's different than yours, might be equally as valid, but, for very different reasons.

 

Sure. And when it comes to politics, you're 100% right.

 

But we're not talking politics here, it's a living animal, we're heavily-armed people with telescopes and we have an obligation to respect those living creatures, an animal is not a paper target, it feels pain, it moves, it suffers and shots at that distance dramatically increase the likelihood of that animal suffering.

 

This conversation is based on same guy that Len described shooting a deer from folding chair with a cup of coffee who apparently would have had little chance of tracking of a wounded animal. (i.e., he would have had to put his heavy gun back into his truck then run 700 yards down a power-line trail to even get to where the animal took off.) That is unethical, there is no question or debate about it.

 

The main reason I support hunting is because I see it as a more ethical humane choice for meat than factory farming. But there is a difference between sportsmen hunting and shooting an animal from that distance from a folding chair.

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In my opinion paper targets are for long distance shooting, not deer. But I'm curious with you too ... do you have any ethical objection with someone shooting an animal from 700 yards?

 

 

You're entitled to your opinion. As to your question, Yes I do have an objection to someone shooting an animal from 700 yds IF their skill and/or equipment is not up to the task. For 99% of the hunters out there, I would say that they shouldn't ever think of taking that shot. Because most of them go to the range once a year right before deer season, shoot a few rounds to sight in their scope, hunt for a week and then put the rifle back in the safe until the next deer season comes around.

 

But there are some shooters out there that would find a 700 yd shot on a deer size vital area target not terribly challenging. Especially with a round like the 338LM.

 

And I hate to break it to you, but a deer can "twitch" enough at <100 yds to go from a kill shot to a wounding shot. Shit happens. If a deer twitched the same amount @ 700 yds, its more likely you would miss altogether. And I'm not aware of any ethical issues with scaring a deer with a supersonic 250gr .338 projectile.

 

Cliffie, just because YOU would not be capable of that shot (and should not take it) doesn't mean there aren't others who couldn't or shouldn't take it. My moral objection would come from a shooter who did take it when it was beyond his/her abilities and equipment. In my own case, I could easily make that shot but I don't own a rifle capable of reliably killing a deer at that range because of the downrange energy of the bullet (.308 Win). So I would never take that shot. With a different rifle/caliber - maybe (depending on conditions). There are many elk hunts out west that are routinely taken at > 600 yds.

 

So as usual, your outrage du jour is misplaced and as usual stems from your seemingly bottomless well of ignorance.

 

In order of the bolded bits above ...

 

1. As you noted, there is obviously a difference between a hunter, and a government-trained sniper, Len mentioned some hunter on an internet chat room who shot a deer from that distance. I guess there is a chance that he was a trained sniper, but given that you share my concern for hunting, why then did you feel the need to go full Dick Blick in your previous post?

 

2. The amount of possible, likely movement at 700 yards is almost 8 times what it would be at 100 yards. You just wrote that at 700 yards the shot might miss completely, thus you now seem to acknowledge that even a government-trained sniper is at the same disadvantage as Yahoo Joe with his one-a-year-hunting trip. Once the projectile leaves the barrel neither guy has any control over it, and the chance of it making that animal suffer beyond belief increases considerably. Okay, if the hunter's kids were starving, eh, take the shot. But if it's just an issue of sport, then being a SPORTSMAN becomes more important than practicing one's skills of accuracy, and it likely becomes UNETHICAL SHOT. Remember, it isn't wartime, it's SPORT. It's no longer a sniper rifle when he puts that deer in the scope, it suddenly becomes a sporting rifle.

 

3. Again, not sure why you have such difficulty absorbing this ... that's nearly a second of movement for that deer, it doesn't matter the skill of the sportsman or the equipment, the chance of that deer bleeding out and suffering increases considerably.

 

4. What you wrote there is silly. Out here the shots need to be longer because the animals can see the hunter from hundreds of yards, without the dense trees of other areas. If you have some high-mesa open space like we have out here, away from the pine forests where pronghorn and elk hunters do pretty well, without the dense growth that the guy in Len's thread likely had in Maine, and if you have an ATV and you're with a buddy who can spot the animal if you don't get the kill shot, then okay, a multi-hundred yard attempt might be warranted, but you have every obligation to track that animal if it's suffering under a tree and putting it out of its misery. That is very, very difficult at 600 yards if the animal is near a dense stand of trees.

 

5. Except that what you've written above seems to be leading you to the same truth I pointed out above. I'm breaking your argument, so it seems the ignorance is yours Jeff. Just being able to to do something to a piece of paper doesn't mean someone should do that to an animal. The Taliban may have signed up for the war, the deer didn't.

 

 

Taking a really long shot is shooting. It’s not really hunting. - Dan Pedrotti about 900 yard shots, http://www.outdoorhub.com/opinions/long-shots-when-does-hunting-become-target-shooting/

There is a danger that a fine and demanding shooting sport, long range target shooting, by targeting living wildlife, turns into an ugly bloodsport that gives hunting a black eye. It’s not a new problem. The traditional German hunting ethics, for instance, condemns the use of any living game animals as mere “targets.” -- Valerius Geist.

Mike, you are simply full of shit in this case. I ate deer last night. I do so on a regular basis.

 

A twig unseen through a scope at 100yards is just as likely to be a problem as any animal movement. You sir, a physicist, should understand that all movement starts at zero. Deer are quick, I'll give you that, but what is the probability that a deer that has no clue that anything is wrong will bolt, in under a second, enough to cause a significant miss? Picking the shot, having the equipment and the ability are all part of the task. I personally would not shoot turkeys beyond forty yards with a shotgun. I would, without hesitation, shoot out to two hundred yards with my Weatherby. You have some clue of the density of the forest in my parts, so you should understand that even that is a stretch. However, given the right rifle, conditions and practice I would feel very comfortable with much further distances. And by the way, I do not need government training to make all of that realistically possible. Take your government should control all BS to someone who might buy that shit.

 

Fried tenderloin, potatoes, and greens were great. Of course, you have to shoot the deer to eat the meat.

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Wofsey - it's easy to find opinions that agree with yours. It's much harder to admit that someone else's opinion, even if it's different than yours, might be equally as valid, but, for very different reasons.

 

Sure. And when it comes to politics, you're 100% right.

 

But we're not talking politics here, it's a living animal, we're heavily-armed people with telescopes and we have an obligation to respect those living creatures, an animal is not a paper target, it feels pain, it moves, it suffers and shots at that distance dramatically increase the likelihood of that animal suffering.

 

This conversation is based on same guy that Len described shooting a deer from folding chair with a cup of coffee who apparently would have had little chance of tracking of a wounded animal. (i.e., he would have had to put his heavy gun back into his truck then run 700 yards down a power-line trail to even get to where the animal took off.) That is unethical, there is no question or debate about it.

 

The main reason I support hunting is because I see it as a more ethical humane choice for meat than factory farming. But there is a difference between sportsmen hunting and shooting an animal from that distance from a folding chair.

 

You really DON'T hunt, do you? The first thing that's done when you shoot a big game animal ( like a deer ) is to look at the spot where the animal WAS - and identify some checkpoints around it. The next thing to do is SIT STILL for 30 minutes. Of all the deer I've shot, I've only had one drop where I hit it. All the others took off when they're hit, whether it be from an arrow, buckshot or a bullet. Retrieval begins when you walk down to the checkpoint. You find the blood trail, look for tracks, and then keep your eyes open to follow both (hopefully) to the animal you've taken. I'm not Grizzly Adams, but, I can read sign, and it's sometimes taken me hours to find an animal that was less than 200 yards from where I shot it.

 

Mike, your opposition seems to be founded on a supposition, and not any real, personal experience. Knowing what you don't - I can understand how you'd come to the conclusion that you did, but on this point, I think your outrage is misdirected.

 

The guy who took the long range shot may not have been practicing as much woodcraft as the bowhunter who gets within 30 yds - but, I don't find anything about the incident to fault him for. I'd probably shake his hand for making a good shot!

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Guest One of Five

Back to OP ;-)

 

Accuracy International was available here? Never knew that.

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So you aren't going to regale us with tales of growing up stalking grizzlies and moose in the canyons of NYC? Pity.

 

I was wondering where his great understanding of hunting came from..... was it his time spent as a bike messenger in NYC or his time as a UN peacekeeper, or his time as a journalist covering wars in Uganda? Or his time as a professor in Alabama?

 

Its just too difficult to keep up with the Narnia worlds of Mikey.

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JBSF pretty well summed it up a few posts ago.

 

wofey seems to think a deer is going to jump at any moment.

 

OK lets go with that, where do you stand on bow hunting?

 

 

 

 

Oh and he mentioned bleeding out, that's the whole point!

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