• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

A video of the prestart action that led to the crash appeared on my facebook feed and having watched it, I have some questions and I am not trying to pick a fight with my NZ brethren! I am gutted for them. 

The incident happened as they pass a mark. Is that mark the start mark? Just before they get to the mark, ETNZ pulls away as if to shut BAR out (at 34 seconds), because of the angle, I cannot see if there was room for BAR before they changed course but are you really allowed under AC racing rules to pull away like that? In "normal" racing, that would not be allowed. You cannot 'shut the door' by pulling away. Then, having shut the door, they head into a tack (at 36 seconds) and the collision happened as the jib began to back (38 seconds). Again, in normal rules, you cannot do that if it would lead to a collision. 

I believe that you are allowed to slow down and that the boat behind has to keep clear so long as you don't alter course. ETNZ made 2 major course alterations and those are what caused the boat to slow. One of those alterations gave BAR nowhere left to go. Is that really allowed under the AC race rules? Rules discussion please, not the usual attacks :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^ If you look at PB's hand gestures it appears to me that the collision occurs at the 34 second mark and that's what causes ETNZ to change direction.

EDIT: maybe not.  I think he was gesticulating before the impact.

Here's a different view shot by Jason: 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep Clear
A boat keeps clear of a right-of-way boat
(a) if the right-of-way boat can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action and,
(b) when the boats are overlapped, if the right-of-way boat can also change course in both directions without immediately making contact.

I don't know about your definition of "immediately", but if BAR was the keep-clear boat (behind, not overlapped), then they had put themselves close enough that ETNZ couldn't change heading without collision due to BAR's speed and heading. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Awww thanks for that, I'm sure Stinger appreciates the "help".

Can't you tell from his responses so far that your advice is really hitting the mark?

Same thing can be said about certain ETNZ fans trying to get him to listen to reason about OTUSA cheating. The argument constantly falls on dead ears, but ETNZ fans persist nonetheless. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, SENDITBOYS said:

Keep Clear
A boat keeps clear of a right-of-way boat
(a) if the right-of-way boat can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action and,
(b) when the boats are overlapped, if the right-of-way boat can also change course in both directions without immediately making contact.

I don't know about your definition of "immediately", but if BAR was the keep-clear boat (behind, not overlapped), then they had put themselves close enough that ETNZ couldn't change heading without collision due to BAR's speed and heading. 

It looks to me like Aotearoa is hard over to the mark and Ainslie has run out of room and tries to squeeze inside and consequently collided. It was a stupid manoveur in the first place. The fact he hooked the marker rope would confirm this. He didn't want to tack away (or couldn't) given his boat speed and heading relative to the start marker. Without a virtual view from above it's hard to know for sure but I agree Ainslie is never in the hunt in earlier moves to get to the mark so there is no issue with keep clear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clear astern has to keep clear, hitting some is not establishing an overlap! Just the same as the standard sea rules overtaking boat keep clear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, mrdobalina said:

Same thing can be said about certain ETNZ fans trying to get him to listen to reason about OTUSA cheating. The argument constantly falls on dead ears, but ETNZ fans persist nonetheless. 

You are absolutely correct! As such I have told a couple of said ETNZ fans to fuck off (you can check back if you want).

But just because they are being total dicks, doesn't mean you have to does it?

Like I said, this is anarchy and you can do what the fuck you want. Doesn't mean I'm going to pretend you're not being an ungrateful prick about it.

Despite Stringer driving me fucking nuts at times, I appreciate his efforts "warts and all" and so do a number of others here.

Give it a try, you might enjoy it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the Stuff article....

Ainslie said they still had more components to put on the boat.

"We hope they will get us closer to the other teams."

Interpretation - He's virtually admitting he's fucked unless he can wave a magic wand!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jaysper said:

You are absolutely correct! As such I have told a couple of said ETNZ fans to fuck off (you can check back if you want).

But just because they are being total dicks, doesn't mean you have to does it?

Like I said, this is anarchy and you can do what the fuck you want. Doesn't mean I'm going to pretend you're not being an ungrateful prick about it.

Despite Stringer driving me fucking nuts at times, I appreciate his efforts "warts and all" and so do a number of others here.

Give it a try, you might enjoy it.

I do appreciate his efforts - but just because he does a tonne of good stuff, it doesn't mean I can't suggest he make some changes to how he posts.

ETNZ did some great stuff in the last cup, but they failed to continue to improve and look where that got them. 

In no way am I suggesting that Stinger is as talented as those guys, but you see my point.

Stinger, deep down in the footwell of my life, you're a good sheila. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, rickowa said:

From the Stuff article....

Ainslie said they still had more components to put on the boat.

"We hope they will get us closer to the other teams."

Interpretation - He's virtually admitting he's fucked unless he can wave a magic wand!

I love how fucked this guy seems to be.

Nothing like a Brit knowing they're shit.

Who rules the waves? Not this Britannia clusterfuck. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, mrdobalina said:

I love how fucked this guy seems to be.

Nothing like a Brit knowing they're shit.

Who rules the waves? Not this Britannia clusterfuck. 

I treat EVERYTHING all these teams say with a massive grain of salt.

Yeah, I don't think they will be "up there" because it is very hard for a new team to be competitive in this game.

But poms tend to be a fairly self effacing bunch anyway, so I'm not reading anything into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, SENDITBOYS said:

Keep Clear
A boat keeps clear of a right-of-way boat
(a) if the right-of-way boat can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action and,
(b) when the boats are overlapped, if the right-of-way boat can also change course in both directions without immediately making contact.

I don't know about your definition of "immediately", but if BAR was the keep-clear boat (behind, not overlapped), then they had put themselves close enough that ETNZ couldn't change heading without collision due to BAR's speed and heading. 

I don't understand what you're getting at here...

BAR was behind and not overlapped, therefore the 'keep clear' boat

BAR keeps clear of ETNZ
(a) if ETNZ can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action (if ETNZ had to maneouver to avoid collision BAR by definition didn't keep clear) 
(b) When the boats are overlapped (they're not...) ETNZ can change course in both directions without immediately making contact

Keep Clear means keep clear... not get yourself into a position where you can't.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jaysper said:

I treat EVERYTHING all these teams say with a massive grain of salt.

Yeah, I don't think they will be "up there" because it is very hard for a new team to be competitive in this game.

But poms tend to be a fairly self effacing bunch anyway, so I'm not reading anything into it.

100% and I'm usually the last to write someone off, but it feels like he's ripe for a rib kicking.

Poms self effacing? Not when it comes to NZ - they still view NZ as a backwater and think their union jack on the NZ flag means something. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Pommy sailors - Buggering Kiwis since 1769

Are you suggesting Cook's crew were a bunch of randy debauched sailors, as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, mrdobalina said:

"We hope they will get us closer to the other teams."

Unfortunate wording considering recent developments.

I can picture Glen Ashby's reaction: "Even closer?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Alpinefolk said:

I don't understand what you're getting at here...

BAR was behind and not overlapped, therefore the 'keep clear' boat

BAR keeps clear of ETNZ
(a) if ETNZ can sail her course with no need to take avoiding action (if ETNZ had to maneouver to avoid collision BAR by definition didn't keep clear) 
(b) When the boats are overlapped (they're not...) ETNZ can change course in both directions without immediately making contact

Keep Clear means keep clear... not get yourself into a position where you can't.

Sorry, I should have quoted the person I was replying to - My point about Keep Clear was that it is more than just "don't touch the other boat", you actually have to give the other boat room to manoeuvre. He didn't. A prior poster was asserting that Ainslie was somehow not in the wrong due to ETNZ's manoeuvring. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, rh2600 said:

PTs! Awesome :-)

These things go alright without foils - wonder if anyone has got one foiling...

 

I think it is overly optimistic to say PTs can do 30 to 40 knots. They are 14 feet long and the boat above is in displacement mode, which means they will do maybe 15 knots max. Even Tornado's at 20ft do 23-25 knots max?

There was a paper tiger in Auckland that used foils in the 70's, but they were reputed to be an inefficient design. The boat needed 20 + knots of wind to foil, so he tended to take it out when others got off the water! No idea of his foiling speed though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing it would be really nice to know is how long it was until the start when the contact happened. 1s? 5s? 45s? Might be useful to inform everyone on what the tactics might have been at the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, kiwispirits said:

I think it is overly optimistic to say PTs can do 30 to 40 knots. They are 14 feet long and the boat above is in displacement mode, which means they will do maybe 15 knots max. Even Tornado's at 20ft do 23-25 knots max?

There was a paper tiger in Auckland that used foils in the 70's, but they were reputed to be an inefficient design. The boat needed 20 + knots of wind to foil, so he tended to take it out when others got off the water! No idea of his foiling speed though.

^^ Agreed, I love the kids sailing but the title is more than over optimistic.

First the wind may be around 15-20  kts, no more.

Second, the single handed cat is between 16 to 18 kts max. Even on a Tornado it's difficult to go over 22 kts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SENDITBOYS said:

Sorry, I should have quoted the person I was replying to - My point about Keep Clear was that it is more than just "don't touch the other boat", you actually have to give the other boat room to manoeuvre. He didn't. A prior poster was asserting that Ainslie was somehow not in the wrong due to ETNZ's manoeuvring. 

I don't think there is any doubt about who had the right of way - clip from NZ Herald below ...

In a video released by Land Rover BAR today, Ainslie, who has endured a fierce backlash from sailing fans for causing the accident, admitted he got it wrong.

"We were trying to go for a final push on the line, and the gap just wasn't there. There's damage to both boats and that's not what any of us want at this stage, so certainly apologies from me. But you know that's part of racing - it happens."

 

Edit: This is for the "prior poster". Not suggesting SendItBoys is questioning who was at fault.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mrdobalina said:

I'm asking him to try and better follow internet forum etiquette. Read posts, try to make sure he isn't duplicating content. Use the edit feature where appropriate - that's what it's there for. 

It's frustrating reading content that has been published within the same page.

Duplicating content adds stress to the website and affects loading time especially on a mobile device.

These are pretty fair requests - so no, I don't think I'm full of shit. 

He's garnered a reputation for being a post whore (for a reason) and in general a bit of a pussy, so he makes for an easy target. 

I expect better posting protocol from such a frequent user. 

iggy works well, someone always refutes him if he actually had an opinion. otherwise a subscription on youtube vids keeps one informed. so with 25% of posts being SR's you save maybe 17% of your day on SA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mrdobalina said:

I love how fucked this guy seems to be.

Nothing like a Brit knowing they're shit.

Who rules the waves? Not this Britannia clusterfuck. 

That's Sir Britannia clusterfuck to you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, DeRosa said:

One thing it would be really nice to know is how long it was until the start when the contact happened. 1s? 5s? 45s? Might be useful to inform everyone on what the tactics might have been at the time.

^who gives a fuck if it was 3 minutes before or after the start (by the way, it looked like 3s AFTER THE START if you must know). It was pretty obvious what BAR's tactics were, ram the fuckers if we are behind at the start so we don't get another hiding!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

as difficult as i find it hearing Mike H's voice,

GD interview

I reckon this is a great interview and some nice words by GD. No blame to BA, except don't push too hard in a practice (would have lost a real race with this move IMHO).

Some good questions and answers about reliability, ranking the teams, and the venue.

Certainly GD didn't bring the Event into disrepute but some candid answers. Only FC has given non fluff info, pity i don't understand french a bit better.

Interesting only one comment on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, barfy said:

as difficult as i find it hearing Mike H's voice,

GD interview

I reckon this is a great interview and some nice words by GD. No blame to BA, except don't push too hard in a practice (would have lost a real race with this move IMHO).

Some good questions and answers about reliability, ranking the teams, and the venue.

Certainly GD didn't bring the Event into disrepute but some candid answers. Only FC has given non fluff info, pity i don't understand french a bit better.

Interesting only one comment on it.

Heh. Stingray already posted that link. Watch out. You will get a telling off from Mr Doablina

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:rolleyes:

just bumping it for some comments from wise folk.

And i did see it from SR, even tho he's iggy to me. 

See, works a charm!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, **ONTOIT** said:

^who gives a fuck if it was 3 minutes before or after the start (by the way, it looked like 3s AFTER THE START if you must know). It was pretty obvious what BAR's tactics were, ram the fuckers if we are behind at the start so we don't get another hiding!!

After reading most of this thread and especially after the BAR incidents I am actually embarrassed to be a Kiwi.

It was a race there was contact, shit happens just move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, the saint said:

After reading most of this thread and especially after the BAR incidents I am actually embarrassed to be a Kiwi.

It was a race there was contact, shit happens just move on.

Totally agree - you can bet Pete, Glenn, Dalts and the rest of them have......

Edited by Rangi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, the saint said:

After reading most of this thread and especially after the BAR incidents I am actually embarrassed to be a Kiwi.

It was a race there was contact, shit happens just move on.

wasn't a race cuz.

pay attention

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, the saint said:

After reading most of this thread and especially after the BAR incidents I am actually embarrassed to be a Kiwi.

It was a race there was contact, shit happens just move on.

Acceptable if it's a race, but it's simply practice. Who bangs boats a week out? But agree move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, weta27 said:

Another piece came off the boat at 2:58? Good recovery anyway:

 

 

Where is that number 8 wire when you need it ? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quotes: (Dalton sacked Barker now he's whinging about him helping Oracle)

We're pretty sure that Oracle is fast," he said.

"All our intel, all our watching, our speed numbers that we can run across them ... they're fast."

He said that meant Dean Barker's Softbank Team Japan were also quick because of their design and information sharing agreement with Oracle.

"They are exactly the same, they are the same team, just by different name – that's good old Kiwis going to help the defender."

Dalton said Swedish challenger Artemis Racing "looks good" and the struggles of the British and French could "come right on the day".

Oracle have confirmed they continue to experiment with the cycling option, believing it has benefits to their afterguard work.

"Since we started sailing the new America's Cup Class boat in February, we've explored a potential advantage in moving our tactician, Tom Slingsby, who also grinds, farther back in the boat at certain points in the race so that he is positioned immediately behind skipper Jimmy Spithill," Oracle spokesman Peter Rusch told Bermuda's Royal Gazette.

"To allow him to keep contributing power to the systems, we wanted to add a grinding pedestal. As there is no room for a traditional pedestal, we're experimenting with a pedal station. This is just one of many tests we're still making. Time will tell whether it ends up being a racing configuration."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, barfy said:

wasn't a race cuz.

pay attention

What was it cuz. It had a start, 2 boats, a course, marks, a starting signal, agreement to race, and they were racing around a course.!...sounds like a race and Burning sounded like a hey was rattled 

ETNZ WON the race. The scoreboard gave them a win and Ben rattled the cage and BurLing fellike out. Ashey  was cool as though

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

^^

Quotes: (Dalton sacked Barker now he's whinging about him helping Oracle)

Barker helping OTBOT, that's a good one. The tail wagging the dog much?

and that wasn't a quote btw

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, the saint said:

After reading most of this thread and especially after the BAR incidents I am actually embarrassed to be a Kiwi.

It was a race there was contact, shit happens just move on.

Agree. Time for kiwis to man up and expect more agro as teams position themselves to target the kiwi threat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, maxmini said:

Where is that number 8 wire when you need it ? :)

I imagine there's a shed down the back of the boat with all that stuff in it ..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Auld Mug said:

What was it cuz. It had a start, 2 boats, a course, marks, a starting signal, agreement to race, and they were racing around a course.!...sounds like a race and Burning sounded like a hey was rattled 

ETNZ WON the race. The scoreboard gave them a win and Ben rattledo the cage. ... and BurLing fell out. Ashayne.currie@nzherald.co.nz was cool as

There was no trophy given but it was a race .

Even says so right here :)

However, it was the scheduled 12th race, a rematch of their duel with Land Rover BAR, that proved the day’s real talking point after the race was abandoned following a collision between the two boats in the pre-start, which resulted in both teams sustaining damage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In reality how much practice will NZ miss out on due to the damage being repaired. Everyone saying NZ have been badly hurt by this? How badly? The way I see it right now Softbank are being helped by Oracle to be as fast as possible, Dalton calls them Oracle Team No: 2. It looks so far that BAR need more time and the French are gone so NZ are only racing Softbank and Artemis, you'd have to expect to them to get through. So in my eyes NZ have more time than they realise.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WTF.

As other posters have mentioned, if it was a race, a protest would have been lodged causing BA, excuse me, sir BA, and his team to lose the race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fortunately light or no wind may save us.  Etnz are pretty deadly in the light anyway.  But some more racing would have been nice.  Move on people.  Real race time is not long now.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, barfy said:

WTF.

As other posters have mentioned, if it was a race, a protest would have been lodged causing BA, excuse me, sir BA, and his team to lose the race.

In case it wasn't clear the word RACE is mentioned quite a few times here and by the official authority no less which should out weigh any and all posters here :)

If NZ did not choose to protest that is their choice not ours . 

https://www.americascup.com/en/news/2553_Drama-on-day-2-of-practice-racing.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, maxmini said:

Just catching up on the " news " .

Can't be a debate ,  its too one sided .

big learnings??  like how they played that up.  outside he race strength window so irrelevant learnings. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, the saint said:

After reading most of this thread and especially after the BAR incidents I am actually embarrassed to be a Kiwi.

It was a race there was contact, shit happens just move on.

What a fucking apologist! Is it something in the Wellington wind??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and well done team, more pages and replies than the Artemis thread. I wonder why this one was so slow to gain traction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, maxmini said:

In case it wasn't clear the word RACE is mentioned quite a few times here and by the official authority no less which should out weigh any and all posters here :)

If NZ did not choose to protest that is their choice not ours . 

https://www.americascup.com/en/news/2553_Drama-on-day-2-of-practice-racing.html

I deliberately knocked a guy's teeth right through his face in a play fight once... we were just kids and it was on a trampoline... but fuck man... it was a play fight so it was game on, just like any other fight right?

See what I did? ;-) I don't think you can just hang off the word 'race' whilst ignoring 'practice' 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mrdobalina said:

Same thing can be said about certain ETNZ fans trying to get him to listen to reason about OTUSA cheating. The argument constantly falls on dead ears, but ETNZ fans persist nonetheless. 

You can lead a horse to water........some horses choose to drown!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, maxmini said:

In case it wasn't clear the word RACE is mentioned quite a few times here and by the official authority no less which should out weigh any and all posters here :)

If NZ did not choose to protest that is their choice not ours . 

https://www.americascup.com/en/news/2553_Drama-on-day-2-of-practice-racing.html

Why the hell would they protest? 

It was an accident  (albeit caused by some genuine dumbarsery ) and the "race" means fuck all.

Even if it is possible to protest these "races", doing so would make them look like whiney little biatches. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Why the hell would they protest? 

It was an accident  (albeit caused by some genuine dumbarsery ) and the "race" means fuck all.

Even if it is possible to protest these "races", doing so would make them look like whiney little biatches. 

Absolutely agree. 

It would be the same as the guys that go to the room on a Wed night beer can race , why bother ? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Indio said:

What a fucking apologist! Is it something in the Wellington wind??

Ah, I was wondering why the ballsack wasn't weighing in with his genius. All is right in the world now!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, rh2600 said:

I deliberately knocked a guy's teeth right through his face in a play fight once... we were just kids and it was on a trampoline... but fuck man... it was a play fight so it was game on, just like any other fight right?

See what I did? ;-) I don't think you can just hang off the word 'race' whilst ignoring 'practice' 

And i bet there wasn't a protest filed there either :)

As for the debate as it is , I didn't introduce the word race, the teams and the ACEA are the ones and I am just quoting them .

How does it go, " dont shoot the messenger "? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Ah, I was wondering why the ballsack wasn't weighing in with his genius. All is right in the world now!

The only ballsack here is you mate. Just coming from Wellington makes you a prime canidate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Indio said:

You can lead a horse to water........some horses choose to drown!

Kiwi horses too!

 

I think what BAR did was very smart. It compromises ETNZ program, and all for no penalty!

It also makes them nervous and look over their shoulders.

 

Master class Sir Ben. He is the kind of guy i want racing for me. Jimmies gutsy like this too!....   winners versus the passive aggressives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, jaysper said:

For the second time in a few weeks I will offer my support to Stinger despite his obvious delusions regarding Orifice AUS.

Stinger posts maybe 25% - 30% of the links here with most of them being the original link.

Without him I would miss even some of the news in our local NZ news sites.

If he posts double ups from time to time, so what? He adds a lot to this forum.

I'm not telling you to cut it out because this is anarchy and you can post whatever the fuck you want here.

However, I'm just pointing out you are totally full of shit.

Considering you are mocking Stinger for pointless posts, you are posting a LOT of them to simply kick shit out of him. Hypocritical much?

^  +1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see why ETNZ wouldn't both lodging a protest for a practice race but can you claim cost of damages from another team like normal racing?? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Why the hell would they protest? 

It was an accident  (albeit caused by some genuine dumbarsery ) and the "race" means fuck all.

Even if it is possible to protest these "races", doing so would make them look like whiney little biatches. 

Quite right. Much better for ETNZ to invite their insurer to talk with LRBAR's insurers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Why the hell would they protest? 

It was an accident  (albeit caused by some genuine dumbarsery ) and the "race" means fuck all.

Even if it is possible to protest these "races", doing so would make them look like whiney little biatches. 

just like AS IN AC34

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Quite right. Much better for ETNZ to invite their insurer to talk with LRBAR's insurers.

If you think these boats are insured for this sort of thing you are sorely mistaken.  Risks of engagement 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Why the hell would they protest? 

It was an accident  (albeit caused by some genuine dumbarsery ) and the "race" means fuck all.

Even if it is possible to protest these "races", doing so would make them look like whiney little biatches. 

Why wouldn't they protest? They're quite obviously out on a limb as it is. Grant Dalton was quoted in an earlier interview fearing being "accidentally hit" by another boat. Along with everything else that has happened, it is more than understandable why they would protest. Think of if the shoe was on the other foot. If the Kiwi's had've hit Ainslie inflicting as much damage on the Brits boat as was done to the Kiwi boat, there would be protests flying left right and center. Protesting keeps the rest of the fleet honest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Why wouldn't they protest? They're quite obviously out on a limb as it is. Grant Dalton was quoted in an earlier interview fearing being "accidentally hit" by another boat. Along with everything else that has happened, it is more than understandable why they would protest. Think of if the shoe was on the other foot. If the Kiwi's had've hit Ainslie inflicting as much damage on the Brits boat as was done to the Kiwi boat, there would be protests flying left right and center. Protesting keeps the rest of the fleet honest.

#lovetap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Why wouldn't they protest? They're quite obviously out on a limb as it is. Grant Dalton was quoted in an earlier interview fearing being "accidentally hit" by another boat. Along with everything else that has happened, it is more than understandable why they would protest. Think of if the shoe was on the other foot. If the Kiwi's had've hit Ainslie inflicting as much damage on the Brits boat as was done to the Kiwi boat, there would be protests flying left right and center. Protesting keeps the rest of the fleet honest.

What can they possibly gain other than a distraction? 

Money?  No.

Penalize BAR a point in the challenger series? So what, they will be gone soon enough anyway.

They are best to shrug it off and keep their eyes firmly on the prize.

To do anything else would just screw over the campaign like bowsprit gate did in 92.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, waterboy42 said:

 

It must be a really slow day in the Rugby World, all these clueless hacks (in sailing at least) turning their talents to sailing. 

I expect an article by Stephen Jones any day now saying how useless ETNZ are and BAR are brilliantly fooling everybody and waiting to pounce. 

 

His point about Dalton was spot in IMO. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wish people would understand, there is no point protesting. The race was abandoned by both teams, the result is irrelevant, The only redress would be to award a point which there isn't one, schedule a rematch, which is irrelevant.  There is no grand outcome here that a protest would achieve even if there was one to be made.  generally the umpiring in these events in on the water on the fly.  its over move on. fix the boat, win the next race. period. 

BAR were in the wrong no question, but there is no redress here. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jaysper said:

What can they possibly gain other than a distraction? 

Money?  No.

Penalize BAR a point in the challenger series? So what, they will be gone soon enough anyway.

They are best to shrug it off and keep their eyes firmly on the prize.

To do anything else would just screw over the campaign like bowsprit gate did in 92.

Maybe they decided to force the issue, given the fact that Grant Dalton knew this would happen. He was quoted a while back as saying he feared they'd be "Accidentally hit" by another boat. They may gain more by protesting than they would if they didn't protest. The AC is as much a game of what happens off the water as it is on the water. Maybe the sailing rules will be amended to stop the boats getting too close to each other. I would welcome that if I was ETNZ given their short practice time. Any victory, big or small is still a victory in the AC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Qman said:

wish people would understand, there is no point protesting. The race was abandoned by both teams, the result is irrelevant, The only redress would be to award a point which there isn't one, schedule a rematch, which is irrelevant.  There is no grand outcome here that a protest would achieve even if there was one to be made.  generally the umpiring in these events in on the water on the fly.  its over move on. fix the boat, win the next race. period. 

BAR were in the wrong no question, but there is no redress here. 

 

This is true.

But they could protest against the vibe of it all.

"it's the vibe, it's the damage, it's RRS 15, it's BAR  ... no, that's it, it's the vibe your honour"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On more interesting notes.  

I am blown away by the top wing element of the etnz boat, it is constantly moving and quite fast.  It is really impressive and presumably effective.  

on todays practise videos ART looked really good in the light wind foiling easier than SBTJ and GTF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, theParadoxOfThrift said:

 

This is true.

But they could protest against the vibe of it all.

"it's the vibe, it's the damage, it's RRS 15, it's BAR  ... no, that's it, it's the vibe your honour"

its AC34

its larry

its red socks 

its ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The latest incident just another reason why I am baffled why ETNZ showed up so late to Bermuda. 

 

Their time on the water is pitiful. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The shit is flying thick and fast in this thread. ! Time to move on..! One tap/crash of many to come and this thread turns into a circus with the animals out of their cages. NZ will be fine lets move on FFS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Qman said:

its AC34

its larry

its red socks 

its ...

... about Mabo.

 

At least they  don't have to  move the Camira? I to get the Torana out, so they I can get to the Commodore...

 

Feel the serenity!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, jaysper said:

His point about Dalton was spot in IMO. 

Apologies, this is actually a great article and Rod Oram is a top yachting. commentator. As soon as I realised, I deleted my comment.. Not quick enough.. 

I thought it referred to Chris Rattues previous opinion piece, that was an uninformed bit of fluff, and the annoying tendency that cheapskate NZ Media have of appointing clueless Rugby Reporters to comment on Sailing... 

Hat's off this time for Rattue allowing an expert to do all the talking. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

The latest incident just another reason why I am baffled why ETNZ showed up so late to Bermuda. 

 

Their time on the water is pitiful. 

 

 

Give them some credit. They may not need the extra time that other teams need. Only have to beat Artemis and Softbank, surely they could do that with blindfolds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's ac34,

its larry,

its red socks,

ITS FLAP THAT WING LIKE YOU'VE NEVER FLAPPED IT BEFORE!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Enzedel92 said:

The latest incident just another reason why I am baffled why ETNZ showed up so late to Bermuda. 

 

Their time on the water is pitiful. 

 

 

Their time in Bermuda is pitiful. They've had tike to settle the crew work. All they need is some practice reading the local conditions. 

Will be just fine IMO. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, the saint said:

After reading most of this thread and especially after the BAR incidents I am actually embarrassed to be a Kiwi.

It was a race there was contact, shit happens just move on.

I see Indio has put you in your place already, but let me also have a crack....

Fuck off and be embarrassed somewhere else then you muppet. Ah, that feels much better!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, sclarke said:

Why wouldn't they protest? They're quite obviously out on a limb as it is. Grant Dalton was quoted in an earlier interview fearing being "accidentally hit" by another boat. Along with everything else that has happened, it is more than understandable why they would protest. Think of if the shoe was on the other foot. If the Kiwi's had've hit Ainslie inflicting as much damage on the Brits boat as was done to the Kiwi boat, there would be protests flying left right and center. Protesting keeps the rest of the fleet honest.

I think ETNZ would be quite justified in applying to the Arbitration Panel to recover costs of repair, and any punitive damages under Protocol 11.1(f) which empowers "..the AP to impose penalties in respect of such matter that the Arbitration Panel believes to be just and equitable having regard to the nature and manner and effect of the circumstances.."

The Arbitration Panel appears to have wide-ranging powers to apply sanctions appropriate to the offence(s):

(ii) fine, not to exceed US$1,000,000 (one million United States Dollars) in any case unless otherwise prescribed in this Protocol;

(iv) order a loss of existing or future points, scores or races;
(v) award points or races to another Competitor;
(vi) disqualify a Competitor from any race, series or Event or Events;
(vii) order a reduction in the number of sails permitted to be used by a Competitor in any Event or Events;
(viii) order the suspension or expulsion of any Team Member from AC35 or from any Event or Events; and/or
(ix) such other action as the Arbitration Panel may deem appropriate in the circumstances.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, **ONTOIT** said:

^who gives a fuck if it was 3 minutes before or after the start (by the way, it looked like 3s AFTER THE START if you must know). It was pretty obvious what BAR's tactics were, ram the fuckers if we are behind at the start so we don't get another hiding!!

The way I see it BA tried to luff, however apparantly TNZ were within the 3 boats lengths circle or something... so no luffing rights? BA shouls know that... dummy, heres hopes it doesnt happen again. No intentional ramming grom my perspective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

The way I see it BA tried to luff, however apparantly TNZ were within the 3 boats lengths circle or something... so no luffing rights? BA shouls know that... dummy, heres hopes it doesnt happen again. No intentional ramming grom my perspective.

BA hit the inside of the leeward hull. Strange type of luff. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Raptorsailor said:

The way I see it BA tried to luff, however apparantly TNZ were within the 3 boats lengths circle or something... so no luffing rights? BA shouls know that... dummy, heres hopes it doesnt happen again. No intentional ramming grom my perspective.

You can't luff without overlap, there was never enough room between ETNZ and the pin for BAR to achieve this and he couldn't get around ETNZ anyway (clearly), it was just a big massive misjudgement and Ben should have bailed out much earlier, he pretty much aknowledges this. 

Basically it's just pretty dumb stuff in a practice race, no two ways about it.  Desperation moves are not something you practice!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's face it, there is no point in a protest, waste of time.

the most interesting points for me are this:

1) How many 'practise races' have we had to date? In total?

2) how many collisions (sorry accidental 'love taps') have we had during those practise races?

3) what are the odds (some smart cookie will work this out) that in the 6 practises races ETNZ had we were the ones to be 'accidentally' hit.

I do actually think it was an accident, fucking dumb sailing all the same, but it's fun getting upset about it and throwing out some conspiracies..it just shows how passionate (or deluded) we are as ETNZ supporters...9 days to go guys!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites