• Announcements

    • Zapata

      Abbreviated rules   07/28/2017

      Underdawg did an excellent job of explaining the rules.  Here's the simplified version: Don't insinuate Pedo.  Warning and or timeout for a first offense.  PermaFlick for any subsequent offenses Don't out members.  See above for penalties.  Caveat:  if you have ever used your own real name or personal information here on the forums since, like, ever - it doesn't count and you are fair game. If you see spam posts, report it to the mods.  We do not hang out in every thread 24/7 If you see any of the above, report it to the mods by hitting the Report button in the offending post.   We do not take action for foul language, off-subject content, or abusive behavior unless it escalates to persistent stalking.  There may be times that we might warn someone or flick someone for something particularly egregious.  There is no standard, we will know it when we see it.  If you continually report things that do not fall into rules #1 or 2 above, you may very well get a timeout yourself for annoying the Mods with repeated whining.  Use your best judgement. Warnings, timeouts, suspensions and flicks are arbitrary and capricious.  Deal with it.  Welcome to anarchy.   If you are a newbie, there are unwritten rules to adhere to.  They will be explained to you soon enough.  

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Theyll use that power in no time when Glenn pumps them onto the foils in 7 knots

Looking forward to : 

a) this 7 knot wind day

b ) tacking duel

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gotta say that ETNZ did look higher up wind and lower downhill but that's only going off virtual spectator. 

An extra knot of breeze seems to make plenty of difference with these boats, given it equates to an extra 2-3 knots boat speed. 

My prediction is that all passing lanes will be on the windward legs 

Does anyone know where to watch race replays?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OR looked quite unstable on the foils,  dropping off several times during manoeuvres and mark roundings. Assuming that getting up and then staying on the foils becomes increasingly difficult as the wind strength drops : is it not logical to assume that OR will struggle even more (than they did today) in lighter conditions? If so, bring in the light conditions!! 

Re ETNZ sitting very high (the highest?) above the water on their foils : my understanding is that's what they want. Is that correct? I recall PB saying that they wanted to heel to windward - so maybe they need the height to do that? Whilst the logical assumption is that higher = less aerodynamically effiecient, perhaps that's not the case? Or is it in fact more aerodynamically inefficient, but other advantages exist that outweigh the aerodynamic issue? 

Anyone know how to determine if BAR is actually going to show tomorrow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Matt17 said:

OR looked quite unstable on the foils,  dropping off several times during manoeuvres and mark roundings. Assuming that getting up and then staying on the foils becomes increasingly difficult as the wind strength drops : is it not logical to assume that OR will struggle even more (than they did today) in lighter conditions? If so, bring in the light conditions!! 

Re ETNZ sitting very high (the highest?) above the water on their foils : my understanding is that's what they want. Is that correct? I recall PB saying that they wanted to heel to windward - so maybe they need the height to do that? Whilst the logical assumption is that higher = less aerodynamically effiecient, perhaps that's not the case? Or is it in fact more aerodynamically inefficient, but other advantages exist that outweigh the aerodynamic issue? 

Anyone know how to determine if BAR is actually going to show tomorrow?

It could also be logical to suggest that Oracle will pull the same rabbit out of the hat as last time (I'm not talking about Herbie) where the stability of their boat improved out of sight. That would give them more potential for improvement which would be concerning.

That said it is my unprofessional opinion that etnz have a very much light air boat. THAT is their whomper IMO. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, kiwi777 said:

You're kidding me right? PJ is what, well into his 70's

The guy is a bloody legend. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, AC NZL said:

TNZ looking good, look like a better boat just need to polish up on race tactics

"You left school, but you still got a lotta learning to do." - Rick Sanchez (the smartest known being in every conceivable universe).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Chucky said:

Does anyone have a reply video link to the Etnz vs OTUSA race? I am located in Ozzie and do not have Foztel!

 

 

Can't believe there are no torrents of the races? WUWT

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Flags said:

 

Hook me up to guys! I can't do 1-5am every day! (I will do that before giving money to the foxtel pieces of shit).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, AC NZL said:

TNZ looking good, look like a better boat just need to polish up on race tactics

Dumb arse comment from a Newbie.! For the people that didn't watch the actual race between NZ and USA. In a nutshell:

1. USA won the start, led to the bottom mark, USA had a terrible mark rounding and allowed Kiwis to over take.

2. Kiwis gained the lead and led up the first beat. Kiwis looked good upwind, USA had terrible tacks, stated how badly they sailed

3. USA gained on the next upwind leg via a favourable shift, despite still tacking badly, stayed within reach of Kwis for the next downhill leg

4. USA overtook at the bottom mark, Burling left the the door open and allowed USA an overlap

5. USA won by 6 seconds, both teams made telling mistakes, USA will not continue to tack that badly and make that many mistakes in one race

6. Kiwis showed moments of real pace, everything working well.

7. It's day one, both teams will improve by 20% by the time this is done, watch the AC34 FFS. 

8. Its early days the only thing we learned today is France have issues and Ben Ainslie is  called "SIR" so move the fuck out the way

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

............................and Ben Ainslie is  called "SIR" so move the fuck out the way

 

 

Wonder if it will affect his confidence? At some point unless you are really arrogant or really dumb or both, I reckon it would get to you

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Matt17 said:

OR looked quite unstable on the foils,  dropping off several times during manoeuvres and mark roundings. Assuming that getting up and then staying on the foils becomes increasingly difficult as the wind strength drops : is it not logical to assume that OR will struggle even more (than they did today) in lighter conditions? If so, bring in the light conditions!!

I've just rewatched the race in-full. It seems like OR smaller, less stable foil, on one side perhaps contributed to those issues (if so, it could be smart for them to be testing two foils against each other in race conditions so they can find the sweet spots and crossover points). The issues weren't overly bad for them, mostly just light touchdowns, but enough to cost them maybe 20m each time - adding up to 100+m over the race. Maybe it's just a case of their smaller foil being being at the lower end of its usable range - whereas ETNZ had more than enough stability since they had bigger ones on both sides which were possibly the opposite case, being at the upper end of their optimum range.

One thing I noticed rewatching it was the overhead footage from behind the boats when they both on the reach ETNZ seems to be basically upright most of the time but OR was heeling maybe 10% constantly with both boats going roughly comparable speeds. I wonder whether this shows ETNZ has something more up their sleeve speed-wise across a broader range of wind conditions by being able to use the upper wing control to keep the boat more level and truer to their line. Or, does hustling and throwing the boat about a bit more bridge a speed gap (as OR were doing)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, darth reapius said:

Hook me up to guys! I can't do 1-5am every day! (I will do that before giving money to the foxtel pieces of shit).

Ask around at work and see if anyone has a spare Foxtel go allowance.  I'd offer you mine but the mother in law uses it to watch golf.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Background of a behind the scenes video at Team Japan you can see a pretty nice spy pic of TNZ.

Anyone notice anything interesting here?

Guessing this image was taken the day ETNZ sailed with one light air board and one heavy air board. Really good shot of the two!

End of the video the shore crew state that "they are making the decision as to which boards for the day" and preparing to install them (but that's TJ).

tjspying.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, darth reapius said:

Background of a behind the scenes video at Team Japan you can see a pretty nice spy pic of TNZ.

Anyone notice anything interesting here?

Guessing this image was taken the day ETNZ sailed with one light air board and one heavy air board. Really good shot of the two!

End of the video the shore crew state that "they are making the decision as to which boards for the day" and preparing to install them (but that's TJ).

tjspying.jpg

could you post the link to this video?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tropical Madness said:

How wicked was the fishtail. And 2kn faster on the final leg to the finish... could be some winning options there

Fishtail1.jpg

Fishtail2.jpg

Fishtail3.jpg

Omg, what a sexy maneuver! Was a little bit floored by it. That boat handling impressed the shit out of me more than a foiling tack.

Also thank you Blak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice one etnz.  Little conservative on the start and on that down wind cross.   But well executed.  I don't like the low start.   Almost all the starts have been won to windward by the slingshot.  And look at oracle start.   Shocker. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work ETNZ! Shame about the start, and how we keep handing the opposition an advantage early on, but of course encouraging that our superior boat speed, handling and manouuvres seem to be able to negate the disadvantage very quickly. BAR had some fairly serious lofting and nose diving issues! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does anyone else find the racing a little boring? There seems to be little tacking duels and not much covering. Most of the time the boats seem to sail their own race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, chris360 said:

Does anyone else find the racing a little boring?

No. We've seen six races today. They were all snappy. No 2 hr epics in no wind with no lead changes. This format has my vote. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, chris360 said:

Does anyone else find the racing a little boring? There seems to be little tacking duels and not much covering. Most of the time the boats seem to sail their own race.

Not as good as monos but not boring either. Definitely more interesting than 2013.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, jaysper said:

Not as good as monos but not boring either. Definitely more interesting than 2013.

Watching it on virtual eye is amazing the different modes they sail with and the tracks leading up to the tacks and gybes make you realise there is far more to this than is obvious just watching the TV.  I watched ETNZ sailing almost straight down wind for quite a while at 30+ knots not as fast as BAR but the VMG was better - amazing !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Not as good as monos but not boring either. Definitely more interesting than 2013.

I guess whats missing is the anticpation of racing the defnder for the first time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, chris360 said:

Does anyone else find the racing a little boring? There seems to be little tacking duels and not much covering. Most of the time the boats seem to sail their own race.

There have been several races already where choices between splitting or not, and whether to cover or play the shifts instead, or do a mix, have determined overtakes.

The westerly has been quite shifty and puffy, we may see a move to more covering if it continues. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On that first downwind run when ETNZ overtook BAR to windward (awesome, no?) ... I don't understand why BAR didn't luff ETNZ out past the stbd gybe layline, +/- stall ETNZ out, and then lead ETNZ into the gate.   As the overtake unfolded I was convinced that was about to happen.  Burling was clearly watching closely too...  

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seemed like uncharacteristic / inappropriate conservatism from BAR - because of recent events?  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, NZW said:

On that first downwind run when ETNZ overtook BAR to windward (awesome, no?) ... I don't understand why BAR didn't luff ETNZ out past the stbd gybe layline, +/- stall ETNZ out, and then lead ETNZ into the gate.   As the overtake unfolded I was convinced that was about to happen.  Burling was clearly watching closely too...  

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seemed like uncharacteristic / inappropriate conservatism from BAR - because of recent events?  

You'd bloody well hope so! His name must be mud over there and quite rightly so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, chris360 said:

Does anyone else find the racing a little boring? There seems to be little tacking duels and not much covering. Most of the time the boats seem to sail their own race.

Think its definitely lost all the gloss, mystery and subterfuge it use to have. Most aspects are utterly ridiculous: the defender racing in the qualifier series, racing in Bermuda rather than the home waters of the defender, OD, races that last 20mins and courses with boundaries. The whole event has been reduced to a cheap n nasty NASCAR type hotdogs and beer day for Billybob. If ETNZ can’t get the job done this time and bring the event back toward something that has more of a sailing soul it really finishes the AC for me.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone else noticed what appears to be rivet marks (or something) around the ETNZ foil case area.

Is this a temporary patch or making way for a new foil control system (Herbie 2.0 :D )?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, FinnFish said:

Think its definitely lost all the gloss, mystery and subterfuge it use to have. Most aspects are utterly ridiculous: the defender racing in the qualifier series, racing in Bermuda rather than the home waters of the defender, OD, races that last 20mins and courses with boundaries. The whole event has been reduced to a cheap n nasty NASCAR type hotdogs and beer day for Billybob. If ETNZ can’t get the job done this time and bring the event back toward something that has more of a sailing soul it really finishes the AC for me.    

Totally agree, although I don't like leadmines

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, nav said:

^ Kinda hard to miss, but don't go starting anything....just move along

20170528_ac35live_gmr5120.jpg

OT but the cyclors no longer have pronounced turtle backs, some of their gear may have moved to the chests.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

T3-First-Bermuda-Day-HKH00352-12_FH_2-de

Obvious on BAR too.  Clearly access to bearings etc.  I think the argument is they'll spend so little time with hulls in the water that its not worth adding weight by doing a better job at fairing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, nav said:

^ Kinda hard to miss, but don't go starting anything....just move along

20170528_ac35live_gmr5120.jpg

My guess; they have different retraction and control mechanisms that get swapped with the daggerboards (as well as spares) between days.  Surface finish is relatively unimportant on these hulls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, nav said:

^ Kinda hard to miss, but don't go starting anything....just move along

20170528_ac35live_gmr5120.jpg

Its only on the port hull as well as far as I can see, or at least if it is on Starboard it's much harder to spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, nav said:

^ Kinda hard to miss, but don't go starting anything....just move along

20170528_ac35live_gmr5120.jpg

Is that a glimpse of their magic foil ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, nav said:

^ Kinda hard to miss, but don't go starting anything....just move along

20170528_ac35live_gmr5120.jpg

 

That to me looks like ultimate confidence they'll never be off the foils...

Or a directive that all parts be modular for their next meeting with Ben Hur.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All still ranting nicely I see, well better luck with this one than the last go around. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, jaysper said:

Has anyone else noticed what appears to be rivet marks (or something) around the ETNZ foil case area.

Is this a temporary patch or making way for a new foil control system (Herbie 2.0 :D )?

They have to race BA again sometime? Easier to drill the rivets out to replace bits of the boat?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From the Presser - interesting reaction from BA to DB's query about Ben not turning up with beers for DB's shore crew. That did not go down well with, the Knight. Too bad.

Nice to see PB rubbing in OTUSA's loss to ART. Tit for tat. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

From the Presser - interesting reaction from BA to DB's query about Ben not turning up with beers for DB's shore crew. That did not go down well with, the Knight. Too bad.

Nice to see PB rubbing in OTUSA's loss to ART. Tit for tat. 

Yeah poor Ginga. 

Problem is that spithill seems a natural born prick whereas Burling really has to make an effort. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Yeah poor Ginga. 

Problem is that spithill seems a natural born prick whereas Burling really has to make an effort. 

yeah, dean doesnt really play the bad guy very convincingly either.  he is more like the jilted lover attitude really, trying to show off the new girlfriend, but unfortunately she is proving a lesser catch ATM.   BAR certainly has something to prove.   NO is coming across well, and IP is a driven man.  But you can't really beat the media personal of the firey ginger.    ENTZ are coming across like they have all attended media training and are toeing the script.  in a laid back kiwi way. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Qman said:

yeah, dean doesnt really play the bad guy very convincingly either.  he is more like the jilted lover attitude really, trying to show off the new girlfriend, but unfortunately she is proving a lesser catch ATM.   BAR certainly has something to prove.   NO is coming across well, and IP is a driven man.  But you can't really beat the media personal of the firey ginger.    ENTZ are coming across like they have all attended media training and are toeing the script.  in a laid back kiwi way. 

 

I just get the feeling from watching Burling that he just thinks theyve got the goods to bend orifice over and go elbow or even shoulder deep.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what does anyone think of our performances so far? As expected? Better? Worse?

I think we have done well considering the amount of match practice we have had, PB has admitted his mistakes and is clearly learning in each race

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Jazz Freak said:

what does anyone think of our performances so far? As expected? Better? Worse?

I think we have done well considering the amount of match practice we have had, PB has admitted his mistakes and is clearly learning in each race

Clearly, we have good boat speed. A bit woolly with tactics on the race track, but they will improve.

But OTUSA look quick too, so....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, jaysper said:

I just get the feeling from watching Burling that he just thinks theyve got the goods to bend orifice over and go elbow or even shoulder deep.

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Qman said:

+1

+2

 

i get the same sense when I look at Jimmy too. But then I had the same feeling in 2013 too....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jaysper said:

I just get the feeling from watching Burling that he just thinks theyve got the goods to bend orifice over and go elbow or even shoulder deep.

Hope not ... it's a fine line between confident and cocky ... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's really hard to gauge relative boat speeds, if only we had polars to look at (like 2013), winds have been so flukey and legs so short we can't do good 'scientific comparisons'.  I feel like ETNZ have a speed advantage in the light over everyone, possibly excepting Oracle, perhaps in mid range too, stronger winds remain unknown - but ETNZ have shown fleet leading reaching speeds.  But then again might be partly good wind spotting and smaller manoeuvring losses, as they don't seem to be pulling away much if at all on any particular point of sail.

Perhaps Mike Drummond's Tactical Seagull work will result in some public domain polars

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, chris360 said:

I guess whats missing is the anticpation of racing the defnder for the first time.

Absolutely. Having the defender in the CSS is killing a lot of suspense. Stupid move, doesn't help the dramaturgy of the Cup.

As for the current races, yes, we (hubby + I) usually watch 3 or 4 of the 6 and then do something else. Once the novelty of the new format, boats and tactics (?) wears off, it gets booooring... In addition, the action is too fast for the commentators to explain and the spectators to understand the ongoings. The beauty is gone, substituted by hollow action. Or I'm already too old to adapt to a 20sec attention span.

Go ETNZ (nevertheless)!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can get $4.00 for the Kiwis to win the AC put your money on em now, by the end of the LV they will be $2.00. Can't see the others getting near them. I'm going early on this one. The Kiwis will win this with upwind speed and vmg. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm quite liking the racing!

It's happening a little quicker, like in today's race where ETNZ got that big right shift, you didn't need to be a sailor to understand what was happening in slow motion, it was a lot quicker and a regular person would identify it on screen with the commentary. All good stuff.

It is annoying how much the racing depends on staying up on foils, as a touchdown can mean hundreds of metres lost. Conversely, when you've got two good teams like SBTJ and ETNZ going at it, the racing is pretty engaging. 

I'm starting to think like a heathen, and ponder whether we should just allow stored power, and make the races longer so they aren't so damn short. 45min races with full foiling and tactics would be pretty good! plus we could focus less on how many watts a human can produce, and focus on actual sailing! wouldn't that be good.

Anyway, roll on tomorrow and more ETNZ winning! Happy days. #bringthecupHOME

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sailing use to be a sport where a range of ages could compete as a team on a keel boat.

Youth on the bow and winches middle age as trimmers older as navigators etc.

Now it just 30 somethings 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, justsomeone said:

Sailing use to be a sport where a range of ages could compete as a team on a keel boat.

Youth on the bow and winches middle age as trimmers older as navigators etc.

Now it just 30 somethings 

put a small motor for hydraulics and these things are 2-3 handed.  with no sweating. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, meanermachine said:

I'm quite liking the racing!

It's happening a little quicker, like in today's race where ETNZ got that big right shift, you didn't need to be a sailor to understand what was happening in slow motion, it was a lot quicker and a regular person would identify it on screen with the commentary. All good stuff.

It is annoying how much the racing depends on staying up on foils, as a touchdown can mean hundreds of metres lost. Conversely, when you've got two good teams like SBTJ and ETNZ going at it, the racing is pretty engaging. 

I'm starting to think like a heathen, and ponder whether we should just allow stored power, and make the races longer so they aren't so damn short. 45min races with full foiling and tactics would be pretty good! plus we could focus less on how many watts a human can produce, and focus on actual sailing! wouldn't that be good.

Anyway, roll on tomorrow and more ETNZ winning! Happy days. #bringthecupHOME

All good points actually and something to take on board next time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Indio said:

That was an unusual comment...

Yes it was.... I've been offline for a few days and was thinking this through.  I believe this hydraulic fluid can be put to very good use if required. Those cyclists are going to seriously hurt of my assumptions are correct 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ianz said:

Hope not ... it's a fine line between confident and cocky ... 

It's just the sense I got from the way he talks. 

Hope they can do it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well well well. ETNZ did not look very fast or polished in that one! Would be very handy to have VMG data available rather than just speed though - can only hope that the clear differential was a function of different VMG. We seemed to drop off the foils a number of times, and Artemis certainly won the "flight time" contest.  Perhaps we were testing some new hardware and/or configurations. I did see us at 44.7 knots as we burned into the start box. That final port/starboard meeting that resulted in the penalty : my first impression was that AR had failed to yield, (cue another yelling at the TV moment!) so wasn't surprised when AR got the blue lights....NO was one unhappy camper! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Leg 5 when AR dialled down on ETNZ we did a mean fish tail, staying on the foils and actually passed them not long after.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the uncomfortable fact is that essentially the swedes beat TNZ on the water penalty aside, time to up the anti lads as your get out of jail free card has just been played

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ex-yachtie said:

Mine, or his? ;-)

Sorry, just seen your post. His..."We finished a relatively hard race with a lot of hydraulic fluid left" It's not as if hydraulic fluid is going to vapourise and disappear..I wonder if he meant they finished with a lot of pressure still in the system, with accumulators all charged up...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

deano looked great in that start today-steady confident.

 

Maybe ETNZ pushed him out the door too soon?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, chris360 said:

Does anyone else find the racing a little boring? There seems to be little tacking duels and not much covering. Most of the time the boats seem to sail their own race.

 

 

Like I tell my 17 year old niece-You find something boring because you are boring.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, chocoa said:

 

 

Like I tell my 17 year old niece-You find something boring because you are boring.

That poor girl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was the same Artemis Team that bet Oracle yesterday when the wind was up, but looked awful vs France when it was a bit lighter earlier in the day. It is the same Artemis team who cleaned up everyone in stronger winds at the practice racing.

They are a dam good team in stronger winds, and looked quicker today, but we found a way to hold in there and win even with a bit of luck and controversy.

Tomorrow it looks like the wind might be dropping at midday so will be interesting if the rematch is in slightly lighter wind- and relative performance in that would be more interesting for the long term!

 

On another note- if ETNZ beat Artemis tomorrow and GBR the following day, their next race is vs Japan and if ETNZ were able to beat Japan (and no one else upsets Oracle), then we won't be able to knock Oracle off the top, but will be guaranteed to finish as the top challenger. After that Oracle Artemis match in the following 48 hours there are races between NZ and France, and Artemis and France.... If France happened to "win" these races then Japan would be going home.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, enough of the "Artemis beat ETNZ on the water" its B.S! Crossing the line before the opposition is winning. You can win ugly or win pretty, but its still a win whether it be by 1 minute or one second. Anyway you look at a loss, its still a loss. If you think about it, if Artemis was that much better than the Kiwi's they would have crushed the Kiwi's. The fact that the Kiwi's time and time again can keep it close despite being "slow" as some people put it, says they are doing something right. They have room, time, and ability to improve, and they now have points, which show they are the strongest of the challengers.They have proven to be the most consistent of the challengers so far. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

With the wind so variable and different directions and strengths on the course, VMG would be difficult to calculate and would be changing all the time. And I know plenty of smart, experienced sailors who don't really understand it, so I find it hard to believe that the average fan would.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also, with 9 lead changes, I think it is hardly accurate to say either won on the water or were significantly faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, chocoa said:

deano looked great in that start today-steady confident.

 

Maybe ETNZ pushed him out the door too soon?

Or maybe not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Man, enough of the "Artemis beat ETNZ on the water" its B.S! Crossing the line before the opposition is winning. You can win ugly or win pretty, but its still a win whether it be by 1 minute or one second. Anyway you look at a loss, its still a loss. If you think about it, if Artemis was that much better than the Kiwi's they would have crushed the Kiwi's. The fact that the Kiwi's time and time again can keep it close despite being "slow" as some people put it, says they are doing something right. They have room, time, and ability to improve, and they now have points, which show they are the strongest of the challengers.They have proven to be the most consistent of the challengers so far. 

Not only the above, but they (ETNZ) have now shown twice that there is an extra gear of speed they can use to level up the game when they are behind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, sclarke said:

Man, enough of the "Artemis beat ETNZ on the water" its B.S! Crossing the line before the opposition is winning. You can win ugly or win pretty, but its still a win whether it be by 1 minute or one second. Anyway you look at a loss, its still a loss. If you think about it, if Artemis was that much better than the Kiwi's they would have crushed the Kiwi's. The fact that the Kiwi's time and time again can keep it close despite being "slow" as some people put it, says they are doing something right. They have room, time, and ability to improve, and they now have points, which show they are the strongest of the challengers.They have proven to be the most consistent of the challengers so far. 

Whilst I'm not particularly thrilled about the way the result came about, I agree with this.

The race is run and done. Otherwise it will take on a life of its own like Herbie.