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    • UnderDawg

      A Few Simple Rules   05/22/2017

      Sailing Anarchy is a very lightly moderated site. This is by design, to afford a more free atmosphere for discussion. There are plenty of sailing forums you can go to where swearing isn't allowed, confrontation is squelched and, and you can have a moderator finger-wag at you for your attitude. SA tries to avoid that and allow for more adult behavior without moderators editing your posts and whacking knuckles with rulers. We don't have a long list of published "thou shalt nots" either, and this is by design. Too many absolute rules paints us into too many corners. So check the Terms of Service - there IS language there about certain types of behavior that is not permitted. We interpret that lightly and permit a lot of latitude, but we DO reserve the right to take action when something is too extreme to tolerate (too racist, graphic, violent, misogynistic, etc.). Yes, that is subjective, but it allows us discretion. Avoiding a laundry list of rules allows for freedom; don't abuse it. However there ARE a few basic rules that will earn you a suspension, and apparently a brief refresher is in order. 1) Allegations of pedophilia - there is no tolerance for this. So if you make allegations, jokes, innuendo or suggestions about child molestation, child pornography, abuse or inappropriate behavior with minors etc. about someone on this board you will get a time out. This is pretty much automatic; this behavior can have real world effect and is not acceptable. Obviously the subject is not banned when discussion of it is apropos, e.g. talking about an item in the news for instance. But allegations or references directed at or about another poster is verboten. 2) Outing people - providing real world identifiable information about users on the forums who prefer to remain anonymous. Yes, some of us post with our real names - not a problem to use them. However many do NOT, and if you find out someone's name keep it to yourself, first or last. This also goes for other identifying information too - employer information etc. You don't need too many pieces of data to figure out who someone really is these days. Depending on severity you might get anything from a scolding to a suspension - so don't do it. I know it can be confusing sometimes for newcomers, as SA has been around almost twenty years and there are some people that throw their real names around and their current Display Name may not match the name they have out in the public. But if in doubt, you don't want to accidentally out some one so use caution, even if it's a personal friend of yours in real life. 3) Posting While Suspended - If you've earned a timeout (these are fairly rare and hard to get), please observe the suspension. If you create a new account (a "Sock Puppet") and return to the forums to post with it before your suspension is up you WILL get more time added to your original suspension and lose your Socks. This behavior may result a permanent ban, since it shows you have zero respect for the few rules we have and the moderating team that is tasked with supporting them. Check the Terms of Service you agreed to; they apply to the individual agreeing, not the account you created, so don't try to Sea Lawyer us if you get caught. Just don't do it. Those are the three that will almost certainly get you into some trouble. IF YOU SEE SOMEONE DO ONE OF THESE THINGS, please do the following: Refrain from quoting the offending text, it makes the thread cleanup a pain in the rear Press the Report button; it is by far the best way to notify Admins as we will get e-mails. Calling out for Admins in the middle of threads, sending us PM's, etc. - there is no guarantee we will get those in a timely fashion. There are multiple Moderators in multiple time zones around the world, and anyone one of us can handle the Report and all of us will be notified about it. But if you PM one Mod directly and he's off line, the problem will get dealt with much more slowly. Other behaviors that you might want to think twice before doing include: Intentionally disrupting threads and discussions repeatedly. Off topic/content free trolling in threads to disrupt dialog Stalking users around the forums with the intent to disrupt content and discussion Repeated posting of overly graphic or scatological porn content. There are plenty web sites for you to get your freak on, don't do it here. And a brief note to Newbies... No, we will not ban people or censor them for dropping F-bombs on you, using foul language, etc. so please don't report it when one of our members gives you a greeting you may find shocking. We do our best not to censor content here and playing swearword police is not in our job descriptions. Sailing Anarchy is more like a bar than a classroom, so handle it like you would meeting someone a little coarse - don't look for the teacher. Thanks.

19,502 posts in this topic

1 minute ago, Flags said:

Funnily enough, I don't think ORs hydraulics are designed nor maintained by anyone with the same level of expertise as the company that backs the Kiwis. Which is kinda weird considering the overall budget for there defence.

Spinbot keeps regaling us with wonderous tales of the high-tech hydraulic motion and control capabilities of Parker Hannifin extended to OR-XEROX. And the equally impressive hydraulic control systems used by Airbus :lol:

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Hydraulics might be a bit of a weakness for Oracle, but looking at the 1st reach in race 2 sailing the same course in same wind at well below cavitation speeds (below 30kts) ETNZ was holding 1.5kts of speed advantage.

In this range ETNZ were about 5% faster than Oracle.  Ultimate reaching speed is a very good indicator of overall propulsive force/total drag (eg around 4 for ETNZ vs 3.8 for Oracle) multiplied by wind speed.  That is mostly about lower drag given near identical righting moment, likely due to ETNZ daggerboards and perhaps a small contribution from the lower crew windage.  Oracle can't hope to overcome that large a deficit at this late stage, and in these lighter winds it means that ETNZ can always sail at a fraction of a degree smaller apparent wind angle up or downwind at same boatspeed, with big resulting (around 5%) VMG advantage as we have seen.

The advantage will diminish as get closer to onset of cavitation (high 30's), where smaller foils become optimal, but Oracle can't hope to overcome that big a performance deficit to win races in the light, and unless there is a lot stronger wind for coming races they will lose the cup.

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10-12 knots today if Kiwis win again via speed we confirm what we already think in terms of them having a speed advantage. 

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Quote

The thought of Kim Dotcom trying get inside those hulls to check for dodgy sensors....

^_^:ph34r:

 

Quote

Its interesting to see that here we can see ETNZ is also now configured with slack lowers (and ETNZ's crew are fiddling around with it as if it was a focus of attention).

Yes I meant to post on that before, I guess if everyone is happy to have them slack so be it, maybe thats why MC changed their mind? ie they asked OR & ETNZ, both were pro-slack -> re-issue.

 

Quote

*BBDDC voice* why else would they install the bmx?? *BBDDC voice*

FIFY ;)

Seriously I can't see how it possibly pays for its weight, he takes power off the main grinder for a long time, then only pedals for a few secs downwind.

I was surprised to see it still there post-mods, expect to see it gone before the end.

Unless there is some nefarious oil-as-ballast shenanigans going on associated with it?

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25 minutes ago, Indio said:

Spinbot keeps regaling us with wonderous tales of the high-tech hydraulic motion and control capabilities of Parker Hannifin extended to OR-XEROX. And the equally impressive hydraulic control systems used by Airbus :lol:

I reckon this guy

JOHN HILDEBRAND

Hydraulics and Winches Systems Engineer

JH.jpg.af536a4a8c600d75471a7609cbd9a026.jpg

Is this guy

Consider the loads
John Hildebrand, who in partnership with Andrew Henderson in Darkhorse Yachting provides specialist engineering and rigging services to grand prix racer customers including Bob and Sandy Oatley for their Wild Oats program, is an engineer who runs his own load-testing programs.
“Our main aim is to increase performance of boats across the board; plan deck hardware systems, optimise and simplify.
“We have our own test beds and do a lot of load testing, so we get our heads around loads a lot closer than what generally gets specified on boats. A lot of stuff gets way too heavy and we try to simplify, make it small, suitable to the application and use good new technical materials.”

doesn't appear to be from Parker Hannifin, and trusting airbus hydraulics hmmmmm not so sure about that :)

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7 hours ago, Sailbydate said:

Boy. That's one you don't hear everyday. Showing your age there, starr.

We are all getting a bit older aren't we. Been too long my friend. Off to Bermuda Thursday hope their is a contest when we get there. 

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Only two races in, calm your tits people!

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53 minutes ago, Flags said:

Funnily enough, I don't think ORs hydraulics are designed nor maintained by anyone with the same level of expertise as the company that backs the Kiwis. Which is kinda weird considering the overall budget for their defence.

 

That company being?

 

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Is being race- hardened an issue? 

In the last 4 years Jimmy has raced in the ACWS (winning none) and done some practice racing in the AC 50s. What else has he done? 

Pete has sailed in maybe 600 - 1000 races that mattered to him, A class, Moth, Won 28 49er regattas and won Olympic Gold by the largest winning margin in any Olympic sailing class for 50 years. 

Hardly a surprise that Pete is more match- hardened despite his relative lack of match racing / AC50 practice racing.

 

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3 hours ago, rh2600 said:

I definitely heard someone (Ashby?) complain about "the cam" (again) so I think it was wing related.

In the Blair Tuke interview (with Tasker?) he admitted they had onboard issues on the final upwind

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Pearl island weather maybe 1 knot higher than yesterday at present  

Cool kiwi flag setup at south road junction yesterday. By taskers/lesters camera man I think. Top effort. Huge kiwi support

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I don’t think it will matter what is planned if Team Oracle losses they would prefer to have DOG challenge, which they are 1-0 on opposite to a LVC challenge which they are 0-2 on.  Larry has never won a LVC and has an eye for spectacle. ETNZ should be preparing lawyers and a monster design.

I think they should make a 12m Cat Class. Marry the spirit of the old 12m class and foiling cats but put more classical boat handling and controls back into the hands of more sailors.

 

12m Cat (2 boat max)

soft sails (unlimited builds, but limited certs)

foils but no hydraulics (unlimited builds, but limited certs)

no electronics not even a GPS watch. (Swiss/Japanese watch makers will be happy.)

Strong citizenship clause

 

I am from the US and I hope ETNZ WINS!

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Good omen for New Zealand, 2 Kiwis Earl Bamber and Brendan Hartley with Timo Bernhard win Le Mans 24 hours for Porsche. 

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Yep, I just watched it too. Great, especially since Timo was one of my participants in the Formula Ford.

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Arrrgh, the Corvette banged tires with the Aston and then got a flat on the last lap, losing the race.

Well there are still the Kiwis looking good on the first day, too early to make any conclusions yet but hope they keep it up. Most of my friends at the club yesterday were bummed for OR and perplexed by my support for ETNZ. Little do most of them know...

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VERY early days yet. 

Some people seem to have short memories. Better to take it a day at a time, tho today may give us the start of a trend ... 

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3 hours ago, Woolfy said:

Interesting.... and just who is the "electronics guru from New Zealand"? Do we know him/her because I'd thought if they were as described one or both of us would.

This 'electronics guru' is David Minor. 

 

 

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What's the name of the guy who wrote the software for Luna Rossa and the auto-foiling system before going to Oracle?

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apparently the squadron had 600 people for the first races yesterday. Anyone here go along? Sounds like a great way to start your day. 

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3 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Arrrgh, the Corvette banged tires with the Aston and then got a flat on the last lap, losing the race.

Well there are still the Kiwis looking good on the first day, too early to make any conclusions yet but hope they keep it up. Most of my friends at the club yesterday were bummed for OR and perplexed by my support for ETNZ. Little do most of them know...

 

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Another crushing win to ETNZ. Clear frustration onboard OR from TS in particular.  A bit concerning as ETNZ crossed the line, PB calls for someone to "grab the dive gear" in order to check the port rudder. 

Yesterday, I heard a somewhat bewildered looking TS say "ah, we just need to sail.....faster." No shit Sherlock! 

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great start, some loose cover for insurance, found the finish line. :)

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Just hope there's no issue with the port rudder....

 

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28 minutes ago, Matt17 said:

Just hope there's no issue with the port rudder....

 

Looks ok so far eh! ;-) (Leg 5)

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I hear ACEA is in talks with an American company that supplies satellite imagery. Apparently the choppers can't get high enough to get both boats in shot. 

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loved that start...even tho BT said there was a problem i wonder if it was just a " surprise jimmy" mode.

Well done boys, my money is safe, and at 5.5 odds i am happy

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so many kiwis in oracle thread-time for a reality check:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

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Just now, Doug Lord said:

so many kiwis in oracle thread-time for a reality check:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

They just need some all purpose boards like ETNZ have...

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Just now, Doug Lord said:

so many kiwis in oracle thread-time for a reality check:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

That is the exact reason ETNZ has the motivation, and thats' 4 years ago, fuck the past dude 

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6 hours ago, Foyle said:

Hydraulics might be a bit of a weakness for Oracle, but looking at the 1st reach in race 2 sailing the same course in same wind at well below cavitation speeds (below 30kts) ETNZ was holding 1.5kts of speed advantage.

In this range ETNZ were about 5% faster than Oracle.  Ultimate reaching speed is a very good indicator of overall propulsive force/total drag (eg around 4 for ETNZ vs 3.8 for Oracle) multiplied by wind speed.  That is mostly about lower drag given near identical righting moment, likely due to ETNZ daggerboards and perhaps a small contribution from the lower crew windage.  Oracle can't hope to overcome that large a deficit at this late stage, and in these lighter winds it means that ETNZ can always sail at a fraction of a degree smaller apparent wind angle up or downwind at same boatspeed, with big resulting (around 5%) VMG advantage as we have seen.

The advantage will diminish as get closer to onset of cavitation (high 30's), where smaller foils become optimal, but Oracle can't hope to overcome that big a performance deficit to win races in the light, and unless there is a lot stronger wind for coming races they will lose the cup.

Sorry , I'm a little bit proud ( I'm french ). NZ foils designed by a french !!!! LOL

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Didn't RC design the event/rules/conditions to race in - should we forgive him now?

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Just now, sparkiwi said:

Didn't RC design the event/rules/conditions to race in - should we forgive him now?

Over my cold dead body! (I'm joking of cause just keeping with the theme.) :)

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so many kiwis in oracle thread-time for a reality check:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!     Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

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No quarter, no mercy, no regrets. 

I'm flying Emirates  to Switzerland  to buy a Toyota with Pirellis fitted, a watch a dozen Steinlargers, get a coffee and ride my Torpedo7 snowboard accros the rocks at Flimms skifield. 

I'll do all spending from my LV wallet. 

Good so far for kiwi fanboys. 

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Please don't feed the Lord of the Flies troll by quoting or responding.

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1 minute ago, Battleship said:

Seems like the Oracle fans are getting a bit desprate.

Yep, look out they are using large red bold fonts now and turning into forum spammers.

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1 minute ago, Battleship said:

Seems like the Oracle fans are getting a bit desperate.

Yup. 3 - 0.

Americans never seem to get used to losing. Curious, as they're good at it. 

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Has anyone else notice the "Inception" sound coming from ETNZ since they repaired their wing?
They're clearly infiltrating OTUSA in their sleep... only possible explanation for that second start.

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23 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

so many kiwis in oracle thread-time for a reality check:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

DAGO 1995 comes to mind here in DAGO ^_^

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3 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Yup. 3 - 0.

Americans never seem to get used to losing.    Curious    CURSE , as they're good at it. 

fixed !!!

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I thought Lord xenu was only delusional about foil design. I guess he is just straight nuts. Haha

Think I might head over to the OR thread, start putting in a few needles. (USA) supporters are getting very sensitive already. :(:unsure:

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22 minutes ago, Puntone said:

Sorry , I'm a little bit proud ( I'm french ). NZ foils designed by a french !!!! LOL

What are you on about!? Guillaume is a  great New Zealander.

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30 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Good Morning

19274823_1486742121347282_5963370586368750296_n.jpg

19225338_10211738184523029_4844451185373171974_n.jpg

Fuck forgot all about the Under-20s. How did the girls go against the poms?

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9 minutes ago, Mudz said:

What are you on about!? Guillaume is a  great New Zealander.

That's correct. He's from the Ngati Fakalot of Whakatane...

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15 minutes ago, Mudz said:

What are you on about!? Guillaume is a  great New Zealander.

Sorry for the mistake .

 

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19 minutes ago, DA-WOODY said:

fixed !!!

Oh. Cheers. 

I think we all know OTUSA won't take this laying down. They prefer doggy. 

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44 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Good Morning

19274823_1486742121347282_5963370586368750296_n.jpg

19225338_10211738184523029_4844451185373171974_n.jpg

 

19149158_1387357094634332_5481472454864562561_n.jpg

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33 minutes ago, Doug Lord said:

so many kiwis in oracle thread-time for a reality check:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!     Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

The thing is that we only need 8 wins this time :)

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9 minutes ago, Puntone said:

Sorry for the mistake .

 

You probably can be proud anyway, as he maybe has French ancestors. :)

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6 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

The thing is that we only need 8 wins this time :)

actually we just need 4 more.

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11 minutes ago, Gutterblack said:

The thing is that we only need 8 wins this time :)

This has to be post of the year.

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CONGRATS TO ETNZ great racing I hope they win it all 

and GD will make the AC more balanced with D.O. G. cheers mates 

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Watched the AfterGuard and not so sure the five days has much to do with Oracle's plan to come from behind and make some mods... maybe a little something to do with TV audience and Sat/Sun sports window on NBC Sports. Well played you all. Long 5 days for Oracle fans and too long for Kiwi fans. 

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Assuming Oracle have the software to efficiently replicate NZ's batwing foils extremely quickly, can they make and test one in five days?

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^No, is the short answer.  They're limited to a 10% or maybe a 30% change (if they haven't already used that card).  But even if they could, they would likely need to redesign their rudders and other systems as well to handle the additional leeway not to mention learning to sail on completely different boards takes months not days.  

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7 hours ago, starrchallenge said:

We are all getting a bit older aren't we. Been too long my friend. Off to Bermuda Thursday hope their is a contest when we get there. 

Onya. Would love to be there with you guys. It's feeling a lot like 1995, but AC34 is still in the back of my mind. Actually, it's at the forefront, over the next 5 days.

What has OTUSA got to counter this Kiwi rocket ship?

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Anyone care to list the weaknesses of TNZ?

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4 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Anyone care to list the weaknesses of TNZ?

Ah.....well what about...ah..

Oh and then there's.......

Nope.

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9 minutes ago, ezyb said:

^No, is the short answer.  They're limited to a 10% or maybe a 30% change (if they haven't already used that card).  But even if they could, they would likely need to redesign their rudders and other systems as well to handle the additional leeway not to mention learning to sail on completely different boards takes months not days.  

Thank you.

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Well what a bloody snooze fest.

Obviously, if you take the open design elements out of the equation, these ACC50's  would provide some close racing as just another OD class.

How keenly would ART be feeling their LVS loss right now? They could have managed a snow job on OTUSA too I'm thinking.

Nobody else was even close at this stage.

But...still, I'm wondering what OTUSA will find trot out over the next 5 days.

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12 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

What has OTUSA got to counter this Kiwi rocket ship?

Man, not sure there will be a Sir Ben to jump onboard this time, 3 knots off the pace is a lot of boat speed. Only hope is a few well placed turtles to slow them down.... even if wind up not sure they will find the pace. 

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16 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Anyone care to list the weaknesses of TNZ?

No rear view mirrors as far as I can see. A clear omission.

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14 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Ah.....well what about...ah..

Oh and then there's.......

Nope.

Haha, and Pete has some mojo at the pressers now. Nothing like opening a can of whoop ass to make you the funny guy at the table. 

Nathan said something on the NBC feed that he thinks Pete in Jimmy's head when he held back the hook first time. Said they raced together for a year and a half before someone took a start off him. Nath thinks Jimmy is really off. Not a clean hook anywhere.,

 

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12 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Well what a bloody snooze fest.

Obviously, if you take the open design elements out of the equation, these ACC50's  would provide some close racing as just another OD class.

How keenly would ART be feeling their LVS loss right now? They could have managed a snow job on OTUSA too I'm thinking.

Nobody else was even close at this stage.

But...still, I'm wondering what OTUSA will find trot out over the next 5 days.

Interesting thoughts flood in there. 

Physical changes to the boat take time to mode in. So, I'm picking they'll be minor tweaks only, with sailing time to test. We won't see cyclors appear unless they're crazy. 

Mode optimization is possible and they may have some good practice time between. There's room for gains here. 

Crew changes are very possible. Sling Slingsby over the side. There's room for improvement here. 

Both teams will improve over the next five days for sure. If the improvements net the same gains, then the same results will ensure. 

To my eye, there's not enough time for OTUSA to do much to their wing or foil build. 

Go ETNZ! 

 

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Anyone else hear Slingster doing his rag aboard OTUSA in race one today?

Can't be bothered finding the clip, but man, there's some pressure in that team at the moment.

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Its exciting in the sense that someones going to win or lose, definitely match tension, but fuck me its not even close to match racing no matter how hard the twats commentating are trying to spin it.

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2 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Anyone else hear Slingster doing his rag aboard OTUSA in race one today?

Can't be bothered finding the clip, but man, there's some pressure in that team at the moment.

Yup. A tactician's job is hard without options. They don't have the speed therefore, limited options. 

I wonder if his team gear will fit someone else......... 

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7 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Anyone else hear Slingster doing his rag aboard OTUSA in race one today?

Yep! A man under pressure in a team under pressure. He chucked his tablet down on the boat after R1 today. Knickers in a twist much TS? Heard JS use the f word too. Ooooooh...naughty digger! 

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Why is JS making such a mess of the starts? Doesn't appear that PB is dominating him in the box, and forcing JS to err - maybe it's psychological? Or do OR simply not have the hydro pressure to string together a series of aggressive moves to pin PB down? 

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Worder how Lazza's taking it?

His cup is being boxed up for the flight to NZ.

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1 hour ago, Barnacle Bill said:

No quarter, no mercy, no regrets. 

I'm flying Emirates  to Switzerland  to buy a Toyota with Pirellis fitted, a watch a dozen Steinlargers, get a coffee and ride my Torpedo7 snowboard accros the rocks at Flimms skifield. 

I'll do all spending from my LV wallet. 

Good so far for kiwi fanboys. 

+1 to that, although I might drink the Steinlagers :)

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On 6/14/2017 at 11:45 AM, k-f-u said:

In the final race against ART the commentator (Alastair) talked about the revolutionary AI foil position prediction and control system used by Blair Tuke, with a dot on a display that needs to be kept level with a wheel (or so). He said they got a shot of that during the pitchpole. 

Has this been discussed somewhere already? 

 

On 6/14/2017 at 4:33 PM, twomasts said:

It was after the end of Race 7, BT Sport going thru the re-run at 40:25. When you go back and look at Blair Tuke, he is hardly cycling at all, but is head down, with his finger on a control. 

sorry again if has already been posted or discussed, but to follow up on my own question, I finally found the pic of Blair's control which they took during the capsize in this video at 0:41. Would love to see it in action...

 

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29 minutes ago, Sailbydate said:

Anyone else hear Slingster doing his rag aboard OTUSA in race one today?

Can't be bothered finding the clip, but man, there's some pressure in that team at the moment.

Heard him snap "Just use the fucking pre-sets!!!" :o followed by the mandatory apology by Kenny Read.

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2 hours ago, Doug Lord said:

so many kiwis in oracle thread-time for a reality check:

Remember San Francisco 2013!!!       Go Oracle Team USA!!!!

Where are they going? It's not the finish line...

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2 hours ago, DevsNzL said:

That is the exact reason ETNZ has the motivation, and thats' 4 years ago, fuck the past dude 

Exactly where dickhead lives - hopefuly the mods will move him back to Multi-hull anarchy where he can pontificate about his foils & more excuses about why his knowledge (specialist)  was not sought out by ANY of the AC challengers (nor his "home team"  either)

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59 minutes ago, Barnyb said:

Anyone care to list the weaknesses of TNZ?

They sometimes forget to do the final leg?

Other than that... 8)

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36 minutes ago, Barnacle Bill said:

Yup. A tactician's job is hard without options. They don't have the speed therefore, limited options. 

I wonder if his team gear will fit someone else......... 

Would that actually help?

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Are there rules about hiring sailors from 'excused' teams? Am guessing yes but curious.

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Only 1/2 way there but brilliant start :-)

 

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2 minutes ago, Nutta said:

They sometimes forget to do the final leg?

Other than that... 8)

True Dat!

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2013 tells us to be very nervous about what OR can do over the next 5 days but ETNZ would have planned for this period too & they will actually be expecting a huge improvement from OR.  I wouldn't be surprised to see ETNZ quicker again by this weekend.  I doubt they would have planned ahead and said lets leave nothing in the tank after those first two days and then cruise for 5 days.  Pete looks very confident with where they are at - I think he knows they have more the come. But you never know until you "know".  One thing is for sure - there will be no chicken counting going on at ETNZ or by their supporters.

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4 minutes ago, Nutta said:

They sometimes forget to do the final leg?

 

haha - yeah they have done some weird shit in the final legs - race 1 yesterday was the most bizarre - seeing Pete half way down the boat (I presume looking for where the finish line is or something - which is hard to believe?) and then looking like he suddenly realised he need to drive the boat and sprinting back to the wheel.

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^ 1eyedkiwi PB said in the presser, that the team have been planning for this 5 day break and have a long list of improvements to make.

Unlike last time with the layday, these days are part of ETNZ's programme. 

The biggest difference from 2013, is that Oracle was racing a faster boat against a slower boat, but not doing it as well.

This time, it seems they're sailing a slower boat (relatively well) against a faster boat, which is in fact making some basic mistakes. 

Much harder to close that gap - but def not discounting it. 

My main concern is catastrophic boat failure i.e. capsize, hull breach. 

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24 minutes ago, ~Stingray~ said:

Are there rules about hiring sailors from 'excused' teams? Am guessing yes but curious.

Not allowed, but rules haven't stopped OR-XEROX before. 

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10 minutes ago, mrdobalina said:

^ 1eyedkiwi PB said in the presser, that the team have been planning for this 5 day break and have a long list of improvements to make.

Unlike last time with the layday, these days are part of ETNZ's programme. 

The biggest difference from 2013, is that Oracle was racing a faster boat against a slower boat, but not doing it as well.

This time, it seems they're sailing a slower boat (relatively well) against a faster boat, which is in fact making some basic mistakes. 

Much harder to close that gap - but def not discounting it. 

My main concern is catastrophic boat failure i.e. capsize, hull breach. 

Agreed! Last time we had big chunky hulls that were draggy whilst in displacement mode, plus by the time the cup rolled around Orifice were able to copy everything we did and generally do it better.

This time, there are a bunch of things that Orifice simply CANNOT copy: cyclors, batwings, wing control (due to lack of oil) and possibly foil control.

Consequently, simply sailing their boat better may not be enough.

They can do this plus make (limited) boat changes, but so can we and our changes are more likely to be successful because they are planned.

I believe it was the Japanese team in '95 who hacked shit out of their boat going into the semis in a blind panic because their boat was slow. In the end, so ill considered were the mods, that they made the boat slower.

Will Orifice do that? Not likely, but there is a chance that they may not be able to  find any more speed - assuming they don't have any speed upgrades really to roll out.

 

GO ETNZ!

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There's a chance that because Xerox have to make absolute radical changes to their boat this time around they could actually come back slower or more unstable.

They have to take massive uncalculated risks now to catch ETNZ

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I'm expecting some foil tip changes minimum

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3 minutes ago, Lartitude36S said:

There's a chance that because Xerox have to make absolute radical changes to their boat this time around they could actually come back slower or more unstable.

They have to take massive uncalculated risks now to catch ETNZ

Yeah you would think that any "massive" changes would require a few days to implement and leave them little time to actually test and perfect using..

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24 minutes ago, mrdobalina said:

^ 1eyedkiwi 

My main concern is catastrophic boat failure i.e. capsize, hull breach. 

Or deliberate collision

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3 minutes ago, jaysper said:

Agreed! Last time we had big chunky hulls that were draggy whilst in displacement mode, plus by the time the cup rolled around Orifice were able to copy everything we did and generally do it better.

This time, there are a bunch of things that Orifice simply CANNOT copy: cyclors, batwings, wing control (due to lack of oil) and possibly foil control.

Consequently, simply sailing their boat better may not be enough.

They can do this plus make (limited) boat changes, but so can we and our changes are more likely to be successful because they are planned.

I believe it was the Japanese team in '95 who hacked shit out of their boat going into the semis in a blind panic because their boat was slow. In the end, so ill considered were the mods, that they made the boat slower.

Will Orifice do that? Not likely, but there is a chance that they may not be able to  find any more speed - assuming they don't have any speed upgrades really to roll out.

 

GO ETNZ!

Another thing to consider, is that they need to make speed improvements across the wind range. This is very risky, because dramatic changes to the lower range could have a negative impact on the higher wind range and vice versa.

 

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Geez, imagine if Xerox lost it from here......

It would be the biggest turnaround in sporting history....

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